The Commentators' View: England squad & Producer Gary

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The commentator's view on the football daily

with Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray, and Ian Dennis.

Hello, it's the football daily.

I'm John Murray, and this is a special edition of the commentator's view

coming to you from Wembley after the England squad announcement.

And I am sitting here, unusually,

we're all in the same room with Ian Dennis,

regular contributor to the commentator's view.

Hello, Ian.

Hello, John.

And also, special guest today, Gary Flintoff,

BBC Radio Football Producer, BBC Radio England Football Producer,

just two of the many, many roles, Gary, that you've

filled for the BBC over many years.

Hello, it's you both.

I mean, we're going to go on to explain exactly what it is

that a football producer does.

And I imagine that people listening will have their own views on that.

And, you know, people will know your voice, Gary,

from the various post-match interviews that you do,

the occasional reporting that you do, whether it's

final score on five live or radio four or the world service or wherever it

happens to be.

But in actual fact, you know, your BBC career,

you in your own right have commentated on many, many matches, haven't you?

I have.

Yes, I actually started in radio back in 1996.

And I joined the BBC in 2001.

I worked, first of all, for BBC Radio Lancashire,

and then I moved to BBC Radio Mersey side, where I had seven great years

commentating on both Liverpool and on Everton, including

Champions League final, a couple of FA Cup finals, and

there were good times.

Rafferby Details in charge of Liverpool and David Moyes,

remember him, he was in charge of Everton back in the day.

Whatever happened to him?

And anybody listening to Gary's voice now, would you agree with this, John,

that he's got a stereotypical voice for a commentator?

Would you say, do you think?

People have said that to you before, though, haven't they?

That your voice lends itself to to the job that you do.

Yeah, you know, they have, and my face very much,

lends itself to the job that you do.

And Gary, we have had a message from Georgie in Cheshire, who says,

please give Gary Flintoff his moment in the spotlight.

I'd love to hear about his role behind the scenes,

both at Sulford and at the ground.

We've not heard about the day job of engineering,

brackets, I think. In actual fact, Georgie, he is the producer.

And she continues, and why they are the ones put in the firing line

to interview managers at full time.

Well, Georgie, now is your chance.

I mean, we know very well what you do,

but explain to the wider audience, what is it that a football producer does?

It's a very good question, because it suddenly encompasses so many different things.

And I mean, at times, it sort of feels like you're working for the United Nations,

trying to bring everybody together at the right time, in the right place.

But yeah, a lot of negotiation, a lot of talking,

which I'm sure you'll pick up on at some point.

I remember one game, which we were all at, which was in Bulgaria in Sophia.

And I think one of my first conversations with Christo,

who was the press officer for the Bulgarian National Association.

He was a lovely fellow by the way,

but the conversation literally went,

Christo, we have a slight problem with our commentary position.

And his response was, what is the problem?

And I said, we can't see half of the pitch.

So a lot of discussions like that,

talking to all the summarizers or the form of professionals,

who obviously are a big part of what we do.

And the engineers, the conduit between our engineering team,

the people who plug everything in for us.

And I suppose they lay the foundation to allow the magic to happen.

Yeah, one of these days we must get one of the engineers on as well to give their view on things.

But I always think that when we travel as a team,

you know, whether it's in the UK or abroad,

whether it's a tournament, whatever it happens to be,

you're really Gary, the producer is the team leader, aren't they?

Well, they are.

Normally, I would say,

I suppose it depends who you're working with.

If you have a lot of people who are,

shall we say, experienced,

then I'd like to think it's more of a collective,

you know, all honesty.

But I suppose ultimately,

and no Rob Nothman, who is a great colleague of all of ours,

has said on many an occasion,

we call Rob the radio Yoda,

the man that teaches us everything.

And the phrase he always uses,

when it comes to talking about production,

either in the studio or in the field,

is when it all goes perfectly,

and the bosses are raving about the amazing coverage.

It's all down to those who are behind the microphone,

or behind the camera for that matter.

And when it all goes horribly wrong,

it's all the producer's fault.

Richard, actually,

that's true.

It's the nail on the head, doesn't it?

Yeah, but listen, I mean,

when I talk about being the team leader,

really, and I suppose he's talking about when things

don't go right, really.

And you know, where something,

whatever it happens to be,

someone's got to call the shots, haven't they?

And that, in the end, has to be the producer, I think.

I suppose you do. You sort of have to make the sensible decisions.

And you obviously deal with those who are above you as well.

The big bosses who obviously aren't on site.

And you have to answer some questions to them afterwards.

And I mean, ultimately, I suppose one of my primary roles,

when we are out and about it,

to make sure everyone gets back home safely,

which has been the challenge on one or two occasions down the years.

But I think we haven't lost anybody yet.

And I'm certainly hopeful.

I'll reach the end of my career.

And we can still count them all out and count them all back in again.

But also, for a sort of like a major fine,

I'm thinking, when we're all together in Berlin,

it was you who will decide when John will make his first appearance on the radio.

You know, you'll then tell me,

right, John's doing the top of the program.

I need you in the ground an hour later.

All the various hits that we do for the various outlets throughout the BBC,

whether it be the World Service Radio 2, Radio 1, whatever,

all those requests come through you.

And then you have to delegate once John's decided what he's going to do to me.

Yeah, I mean, that's true.

I mean, that is true.

You nearly missed that, didn't you?

I know, I nearly did.

But it was a good, it was a good line.

But the thing about the BBC is it is absolutely huge.

There are so many moving parts to it.

And it's the idea is that instead of you both,

if you're both on site taking phone calls from every single outlet

that broadcasts on the BBC, they're meant to come through through me.

And obviously our own production team for five live will come through me

and they'll have their thoughts.

And I will say, well, John could do that,

but probably having him up at six in the morning to then commentator

nine o'clock at night, local time.

Isn't the best use of, you know, John is the commentator.

So that's when you normally get the shout.

I don't know.

But yeah, I mean, that's a big part of it because we get all sorts of requests

and people want the dulcet tones of John Murray

or the the driving tones of Ian Dennis

to be their voice of their trails, their voice of their programs.

I mean, I know you've both been asked to do all sorts of various scripts

down the years.

And it's a very effective one running on the on BBC Radio at the morning

following me and Fern cotton.

I think has gone down very well with everyone who's heard it

from what I hear.

You were very much looking forward to doing that, I believe.

So yeah, I've had more stick about that.

Have you?

Of course I have.

Well, then singing new now aspirato center.

Yeah, I have.

Guess who was the first one on incidentally?

Wouldn't be here, shall we?

Absolutely.

Hit the target.

I haven't seen or heard this trail.

I don't think I've I saw the script,

but I've not actually heard the finished art.

Right.

Let's talk about your favourite 90s.

Favorite 90 minutes?

It's so hard to choose, especially as five life sports

has more life-premially common trees than anywhere else.

No.

I meant your favourite 90s song.

Ah, sorry, Fern.

Well, if it's the 90s, it's going to be take that.

Great choice.

Let's see your dance moves.

From football to throwbacks and everything in between.

BBC sounds packed with personality.

Anyway, I've rudely interrupted you, Gary.

No, it's just to say that you sort of bring all the strings together

and then hopefully come up with a plan because,

yeah, I mean, whether it is Radio One, I mean, even, you know,

six music from time to time.

We'll throw in the request, Radio Four, obviously.

We do a lot for them, the World Service, BBC TV.

It could be the news channel.

It could be the six o'clock news.

So, yeah, I'm the person.

The idea being, I think,

that rather everyone goes to you and annoys you all day.

Although I do know quite a lot of people will do that anyway.

It's the meant to come through me and we try and filter some of the requests

or combine them and just make it a little bit easier.

So rather than do one in the six hour, one in the seven hour, one in the eight hour,

I go, how about we all do them in half an hour

between seven, thirty and eight o'clock?

And it normally works.

Not always, but it normally works.

What we should say as well is there's a heck of a lot of administration

in the role that you play.

Unfortunately, you love a bit of administration, don't you?

Well, you believe I love a bit of administration,

or red tape as some people like to call it.

But I have to give a nod to those back at base as well

who do this sort of the initial applications.

But what we often find is what was requested in a football ground

is not always what we find.

And that's when the negotiations, shall I say,

have to start in earnest.

And some of those are well received

and some of them take a little bit of pushing back.

But we normally get there in the end.

Yeah.

And Ian, as well, Gary is a master schmooser, isn't he?

And coming from one of the great schmoosers,

Gary is almost even better at it than you are.

Well, I wouldn't necessarily say that I was a schmooser.

Oh, I would.

Would you?

Oh, absolutely.

I hold you up there on the pedestal when it comes to schmoosing.

Yeah.

I remember one of my first experiences with Gary.

And we were working together at Amfield.

And the comment position was opposite to where we are now.

So we were at the top of the Sakinidau Gleestand.

And you had to get that convoluted way up the ladder.

As we eventually came down, we were walking around

behind the goal from the Amfield road end.

And we were going to go down the tunnel.

And I said to him, I said, Gary, I said,

I don't think we can get in this way.

And he said, leave it with me.

And we didn't have any sort of like a accreditation at that point.

Not on show, at least, anyway.

And not that we needed it.

Because we were just greeted with hello, Gary.

And it turns out that his face was his accreditation.

And we walked down the tunnel.

And I'd never walked down the tunnel at Amfield before.

So that was, no.

That was quite a, I had to always walk the long way around

to get into the, to the top of the tunnel

where we used to do the interviews.

So that was quite a thrill to walk down that famous tunnel.

You know, and go underneath that, this is Amfield sign.

Did you touch it?

I think I might have done actually, yeah.

Well, you had to, didn't you?

You know, very much so.

So, yeah, that was one of my first experiences

of working with, with Gary.

But there aren't many UEFA or FIFA.

What would we call the match managers?

That, who, who look after the running of UEFA and FIFA matches

that, that you don't know, Gary, how are they?

Yeah, I think it's safe to say how one, one or two of them

might happen to know.

I mean, we're very fortunate, though, aren't we?

We've got so many of them actually work

in the Premier League or work in England.

And then we see them overseas either.

UEFA or FIFA events.

And, yeah, I just think, if you're, if you're nice to people,

they're more likely to be nice back to you.

But in all seriousness, though, your, your face has to be sort of like

that recognition point, if you like, when you're in the tunnel.

Because you're waiting, you know, many people would have heard you

doing the interviews live into sports report,

where you've only got that short period of time.

You'll have made your way down from the gantry,

into position, your equipment is set up.

And then it's all about the eye contact,

whether it be with one of the matches managers that you're talking about,

or indeed one of the press officers,

for them to get your eye contact for you to sort of like

beckon somebody over to make sure that they're then on the radio

to do the interview.

I think it definitely helps if they know you,

and definitely helps if they recognise you.

And also, as you say, just being ready,

but I mean, now more than ever,

there are so many international broadcasters that we see on site.

And obviously you've got players, you've got managers bouncing around

between the various booths where they do the interview.

And yeah, if the press officer looks at you and you nod,

they know that you're ready, so they come over and they go live on

sports report, and that's one of the biggest

thrills really is that in TV, there are still some live interviews

done, but pretty much all our interviews in

sports report are live, and that's a great,

you know, it's a great buzz, it's a great thrill,

and it's a program, obviously I listened to

when I was growing up, and it's special to be part of,

you know, in Mark Chapman, when Hare Chapman

queues across, and you're live with, whether it be Pep Guardiola

or Anna Slott, you know, you've really only got three questions,

so you've sort of got to cover everything off in only three questions,

occasionally you might get full, but you've had

Claire, of course, Claire on the, on the pod before,

and she normally is the one in my year going,

you've got two questions, and you think,

well, I was going to ask three questions, so how do I do this now in two,

and I was actually, I remember a few years ago,

this was a good lesson part, I was given one question,

and one question only, and literally, I managed to drag

in the nicest possible sense of the word,

Dave Wheeling into the interview position,

and Wigan had beaten Everton to get through

to the semi-finals of the FA Cup,

and they said, we really want some Wigan reaction

before we move on to the next game,

and so literally, they managed to get Dave here,

they said, Dave is going to be quite short,

and as we went live, I thought, I might get two questions,

maybe three, it was Ben North who was producing back then,

my colleague Ben, he said to me, you've got one question,

which was basically Dave, thanks for joining us,

on Sports Report, how do you feel?

He answered in 30 seconds, thank you for joining us,

and then that was it, but that's the beauty of live radio,

isn't it, really? We've got everything we wanted.

I remember you getting that treatment as well,

with Vittor Pereira, was that his first game with Wolves?

I think it was, yeah.

So this was the first interview I think we'd done with him live,

and you asked an opening question,

did they win his first game with Wolves?

Can you remember?

I think they probably did, because he was in very good spirits.

He was, he was.

Anyway, whatever had happened, you asked him,

you asked him an opening question,

so pleased with that, Vittor, you must be,

and then he proceeded to give,

what must have been a four-minute answer?

He did, yeah, he did.

Vittor Pereira, thanks very much.

Thank you for joining us,

indeed answering every single question that was going to last you.

Who have you been your favourite interviewees?

Good question, that, I mean, you must have interviewed.

You've probably interviewed a hundred Premier League managers.

Yeah, I must have done down the years, and I mean,

the one who is sort of missing from my CV is Sir Alex,

because, of course, he wasn't talking to the BBC

for a significant number of years,

but I always enjoyed interviewing Josie Marineo.

You, you were always going to get something from Josie.

Tap Guadiola is always interesting,

and there's definitely a few different versions of PEP,

you can meet after a game.

But Jürgen Klopp, I mean, Jürgen, just so warm,

gregarious, sort of like a big grizzly bear,

and obviously, could bear his teeth on the odd occasion,

but more often than not, he was really, really fun to interview.

But we've had some good ones down,

and the bizarre thing is, of course,

the ones we then go on to work with,

like Sean Dyck, he's obviously worked for us,

who else's worked for us? David Moise.

David Moise. Steve Bruce has obviously worked for us as well.

And that's always an interesting dynamic

when you sort of worked with them,

and then you go back to interviewing them.

Chris Wilder. Dean Smith.

If I caught a lot down the years, really, haven't we?

So, yeah, it's always an interesting dynamic when,

well, I mean, the Sean Dyck was really quite interesting.

Was he actually worked on the leak?

Or was it, or the FAQ file, it was, wasn't it?

And he was really good on the day,

but one of my jobs as well, if you will,

is to make sure that, within the commentary,

it should sound as good as it's going to sound.

Now, obviously, in your case,

case says, you know exactly what you're doing.

But with someone like Sean, who doesn't do it week in week out,

there might be a bit of indiscipline.

Is that the best word to use?

And, you know, personally, I'm a big believer

in one voice at a time, particularly during a commentary.

So, during the leak cup, sorry,

the FAQ final of last year,

I did have to have a quiet foot

in a half time, because he was very animated on the goal,

which was scored by Crystal Palace.

And he took it really well to be fair.

I mean, it wasn't giving him the finger wagging,

so they were sure you need to do this,

but just so they said, do him,

you know, just have a think about that one voice at a time.

Everything else, brilliant.

Loved everything you've said so far,

but just allow the commentator to say what they need to say.

So, the audience knows what's happened,

and then you can come in off the back.

And it was quite surreal, really,

because that's basically what Sean will be saying to his players,

weak in, weak out, you need to do this,

you need to make a little tweak there.

Yeah, and it is, I mean, I'm, you know, in my 50s now,

so it sort of probably doesn't feel the same

as it would have done if that'd been sort of 22-23.

Sean may have not taken it in the same way

had it been 22 or 23,

but he was as good as gold,

and he was a really great guest on the day.

But there was that sort of thought in my head

where I'm thinking,

I'm telling a current Premier League manager here

how he should be doing this.

And the other one, which always gets me,

is Peter Smichel,

and Peter's worked a lot for us,

hasn't he, over recent years,

and he is really warned.

And if you'd said to me that I'll be comparing notes

or chatting about interview technique

with the football legend that is Peter Smichel,

you know, 20 years down the line,

and I've said you'd be absolutely off your rocker.

But we have, you know,

but he does the post-match interviews

when he works on the Champions League coverage.

And he really enjoys it.

And just from time to time,

he's just sort of asked me, you know,

how I go about it.

And I've just given them a couple of suggestions, really.

So he's a great guy, great to work with.

And whenever we see him,

you know we get a big bear hug from him as well.

Who's been the most difficult person to interview?

Tell our listeners,

when you're interviewing Pep Guardiola,

how do you know when Pep Guardiola

is ready for the interview to end?

Normally after the first question,

but he does have an amazing ability

to sort of shuffle his feet.

And almost Michael Jackson moonwalking style,

sort of he's trying to get away from you,

but he doesn't necessarily move that far.

But then you do know that once he sort of

edged away, sort of backwards from you,

away from you,

then that is sort of when he's looking to get away.

And when you refers to the interviewer as...

My friend?

Yes.

You still haven't answered the question.

I was giving him some thinking time here.

I mean, funnily enough,

the experience which I have was with a manager

who I did actually get on with pretty well

in the, you know, the grand scheme of things.

But on this particular day,

it was the most bizarre post-match interview I've ever done.

And this was the Burnley manager,

Stan Ternant, who is...

He's a good guy.

And obviously he's gone on to be at a scout.

He worked with Steve Bruce,

didn't see it whole city for a number of years.

And when I've seen them around,

they couple of times.

Stan, nice to see you.

But this was after a game.

I was working at...

at Radio Lancashire.

And it was a...

Lancashire Derby,

Preston North End 5,

Burnley 3,

Thrilling Game,

End to End,

but clearly being the losing manager,

Stan was not particularly happy with the final result.

And you wouldn't expect him to be.

So when he came in for the post-match interview,

it wasn't a separate radio interview.

It was pre-recorded as well.

So he stood in front of me.

And I was surrounded by all the local journalists as well

from the Lancashire Derby post and the Burnley Express

and the Lancashire telegraph.

And I thought, well, he's not going to be happy.

So we'll just keep it nice and simple.

And I said, Stan, I said clearly a great game for the neutral,

plenty of goals, plenty of action,

but how did you see it today?

And his response was,

how dare you come in here and point the finger of blame at my goalkeeper?

And I said, Stan, I said, with the greatest of respect,

I don't think I mentioned Brian Jensen's name.

And it continued on and he said,

no, I'm not having it.

This is almost character assassination.

You've literally thrown my goalkeeper under the bus.

And I think I followed it with another question

which again got pretty short shrift.

So at that point, I thought, well,

I've got a little bit of audio on tape there.

There's other people in the room.

They can ask some questions.

So this interview sort of rumbled on with a few other questions.

He was a little bit better with some of the other questions.

The problem was that on this day, I'd also been told

that Stan had spoken to his chairman in the tunnel after the game.

And so, just, well, basically,

suggested he was going to offer his resignation off the back of the defeat.

And I'm thinking, well,

I probably do need to ask this question at some point.

But I'm thinking now is not necessarily the time to do it.

I thought somebody else might ask the question,

but unfortunately, they didn't.

So I stuck the hard hat on and thought,

right, here we go, let's go back in.

Stan, just before you leave, can I just ask you the question,

is there any truth in the rumor you offered your resignation after the game?

And you can imagine his response.

It was no, I would never disrespect my football club.

I don't know where you get your information from.

Something along those lines.

And then, literally, as he was answering this question,

the door to the press room flies open.

In a cartoon style, door slams against the wall,

and the late great John Gwynne,

one of Sky Sports, and indeed, the BBC Radio,

is at the door,

panting, literally panting at the door,

we've all turned to look at him.

And John says to Stan, he says, Stan,

and Stan turns around to him and says,

yes, John Gwynne, Sky Sports,

Stan says, I know who you are, John.

He says, what do you want?

He says, Stan, is it true, you've offered your resignation?

And Stan, at this point, says,

oh, all right, then, yes, I wasn't very happy after the game.

Yes, I did see the chair, and I did offer my resignation,

but he said he wasn't going to take it.

And that was sort of the end of the most surreal post-match interview experience,

I think you've ever had.

And yeah, the sort of, the back end,

I don't know what to that was, the,

my boss at the time at Radio Lancashire was also called Gary, Gary Hickson,

and we had a chat.

We edited the interview slightly before it went out on there

to make it sound slightly better for both of us and all, honestly.

But Burnley, I think we're playing again on the Tuesday,

and he said to me, my boss, Gary, he said to me,

what do you want to do?

And I said, I'll go and see him on Monday.

And Gary had spoken to Stan,

and we both met up at the training ground at Gore Thought,

and we saw the water towards each other.

And I went, Stan, are we all right?

And he said, I'm all right.

If you're all right, I went good.

We shook hands, and then we continued on our merry way.

But yeah, I mean, he was, honestly, he was,

he's such a great person to talk to,

but he was a bad loser.

But then show me a really successful manager who is not a bad loser.

Most of them are.

They are, to be fair.

But yeah, I'll never, ever forget that day,

and anyone who's in the room as well is unlikely to forget it either.

But yeah, that was, that was quite surreal.

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The commentators view on the football daily.

Listen on BBC sounds.

So this is the commentator's view

where we five live commentators talk about the football,

our travels and the language we use in football commentary

on which note we will get onto our great glossary of football commentary

a little bit later on.

And suggestions for fresh terms and phrases are always welcome

to tcv at bbc.co.uk on the emails or voice notes

to WhatsApp on 0800 289 369.

Coming up over the course of this weekend,

before we get into the England squad,

which is why we are here at Wembley.

Let's just tell you the commentaries

that we've got coming up this weekend.

So Saturday, midday, Manchester City against Tottenham

in the WSL on sports extra on your BBC sounds app.

Then in Saturday, three o'clock,

you are remaining in London for full and against Burnley.

The only three o'clock commentary in the top flight this weekend.

And Mr. Michael Brown is going to be alongside you for that one.

530, Everton Chelsea from Goodison Park

from the Hill Dickinson Stadium.

That's your intro and scary.

My!

Yes, it is.

Well, mentioning Goodison, because it was.

And I think you'll find it's Hill Dickinson.

There's no other as per the email we received earlier in the season.

No, thanks very much.

I must have missed that email.

This is a prize.

I don't know quite how I missed that.

Sports extra on Sunday, 12 o'clock,

Brighton against Liverpool in the WSL.

Commentary on Sunday at 2.15 on Astonville against West Ham in the Premier League,

Charlie Slayfriend, Luke Chambers with the commentary there.

And then five live on Sunday.

What a big day that is.

We'll keep you across the Newcastle,

Sunderland Matrix, which kicks off at 12 o'clock.

2.15 Tottenham against Nottingham Forrest with Jonathan Pierce and Paul Robinson.

And that builds up to the League Cup final, Ian.

Astonville against Manchester City when Matthew Upson will be with us.

You and me, we're sharing the commentary, aren't we?

With it being a Cup final, Steph Horton is with us as well, Julian Larrong.

And that is, I'm not sure there's been a much more anticipated League Cup final.

This, this stat surprised me what I read it.

In the history of the League Cup, and this is the 66th year,

it is the first time that the two top teams in the country are contesting the final,

which I was really surprised about when you're given the longevity of the competition.

And also, not only, I think it's going to be a very fascinating final,

just because of the nature of the two teams and how good they are,

but also the psychological impact that it could have on the title race as well.

And given what's happened in Europe,

Manchester City looking to bounce back after the disappointment of going out to Real Madrid,

they've now got obviously a little bit more leeway in terms of less games in the title race,

whereas it's going to be a little bit more congested for Arsenal.

But who wins at the weekend and what impact it could have in the title race?

Because it's Arsenal's title to lose.

I agree with that, but I also think it's the way that it happens.

If it's a big win by either Manchester City or Arsenal, which I think we'd be surprised by,

wouldn't we? What happens within the game? Will there be incidents within the game?

And also, were it to be tight? Were it to go to extra time? Were it to go to a penalty shootout?

You know, whether that would have quite the same impact if it's been very tight between the teams,

but we won't know until it happens, will we?

No, we won't. But if you look back at the, in recent, the league games,

Michaela Tetta, I get the impression is just got a little bit of a number on Pep Guardiola now,

and how Pep Guardiola responds. Obviously, the two of them work together for a period of time when

our Tetta was on the coaching staff at the Etihad. So I just think there are a number of dynamics

around the game that make it very, very interesting. Just thought we saw an incredible hunger.

And okay, you know, in the end, it didn't go for them against Real Madrid and the second leg,

but with the 10 men, I thought they were remarkable the way that they launched that onslaught

against Real Madrid. So five live for place to hear it. And also, don't forget, five live will

also be the place to hear the league match next month at the Etihad stadium. So that is another date

for your diary. So that is Sunday afternoon. And then this coming midweek,

Tuesday night, eight o'clock, Arsenal against Chelsea, in the Women's Champions League quarter

final first leg, Ailey Barbat and Fran Kirby will be a commentary team there. Thursday 745,

some of these World Cup playoffs that are coming up are promised to be box office. Wales

against Bosnia, Herzegovina is the commentary on Thursday night. And then on Friday, England,

Uruguay in the first of England's friendlies when Paul Robinson will be with us Ian.

So these two friendlies, as we speak now, this is just a couple of hours after Thomas Tucho

named his 35 man squad for the friendlies against Uruguay and Japan. And I mean, there are all

sorts of headlines out there in terms of, you know, who you would take out from this. I think the

emission of Trent Alexander Arnold, Oli Watkins, Luke Shaw, not in terms of who's not in the squad,

James Garner involved for the first time. The ticking of fifth goalkeeper Jason Steele,

Harry McGuire, Cobbie Maynu back, Lewis Hall, Tina Liverpool, they're all in for Kyle Tamore,

Dominic Calvert, Lewand, Dominic Salanki included with Oli Watkins, not in the squad. And I also

think Phil Foden, still in the squad, Cole Palmer involved for the first time for England this

season. And Jude Bellingham is going to be with the squad, but judging by what Thomas Tucho was

saying, probably won't get on the pitch. And also, in addition to that, and all the individuals

you've named, it is also, I think he said it was an orthodox in your interview that you did with

Thomas Tucho, but it is unique in the sense that not only is he named 35 in the squad, but the fact

that 11 of them, Henderson Bern, Gahie Concert, O'Reilly, Anderson Saka Kane, Rice Rogers and Gordon

are all going to get a rest. So they won't feature in the first game against Uruguay. They'll then

link up either Friday evening or Saturday morning. So essentially, you're going to have two camps.

And then at that point, England will release some players as well. So I think it's interesting

from that 11 that we've just rattled through, that I think he said this as well. If the

plane was leaving next week, they'd be on it. I think they'd look barring injury that there'd

be certainties to go to the World Cup. But for others, he's going to have 19 outfield players

and four goalkeepers in his first squad from Tuesday to Saturday. And then 22 outfield players

and three to four goalkeepers for the Japan match. So that is an opportunity, particularly for the

first part of the week, to really state your claim to get into that World Cup squad.

Yeah. And it's something completely different. I don't think we've seen anything like this before.

And when I spoke to Thomas Tucho, he explained all about splitting the camp into two.

We split the window because I think it's a unique window. First of all, we're qualified. We've

done our job. And that means we have two friendly matches which come in a very decisive part of

the season in club football. But at the same time, it's the last camp before the World Cup. So

to take all the boxes we decided and to get the best out of this camp, we decided to split it

basically in two camps, get to know some new players, some new faces, let them compete in a

small competitive squad of 19 players plus goalkeepers in the first part of the camp that gives us

the chance to have four training sessions and the match with the first group of players.

And then 11 players who were heavily involved in European football, club football and for us

come later and join the group on Friday evening and Saturday morning.

To be ready for the match against Japan. And just run us through those 11.

They 11 are Dean Henderson and Bern, Markehi as Rikonza, Nico Riley,

Elliott Anderson, Declan Rice, Morgan Rogers, Anthony Gordon, Harry Kane and Bukayosaka.

Okay, and just a chat. Those 11 will have a total break, complete break, yeah.

Yes, of course, they're adults and they have a break.

Yeah, but they're surprised when you said that.

Yeah, I guess so, but no one intervened, so there were quite some smiles on the Zoom call.

Yeah, I guess they were surprised and fair enough. I think all of them want to come,

so they're also a little bit biased. I think I feel them that they always want to come.

But once I explained them why I do this, I think they see it as a sign of trust.

And we're very happy about it.

Just one final one. That was interesting.

You're not ruling out the possibility of 16-year-old Max Downman.

Potentially. Why should I rule that out?

I mean, Rio has a good season in Liverpool now and making his way into the team.

Max is making his points on highest levels.

So why would we rule anything out? It's March and we leave in June.

We have to name our squad in late May, so everything is possible.

So there we are. It's almost too cold on a most unusual World Cup squad, this squad of 35.

That was an interesting last answer that he gave you there.

There wasn't it. When you asked him about Max Downman, that he then he threw in Rio and Gamoa

into the mix, this teenager at Liverpool, where I don't think I'd seen

and Gamoa talked about, and yet he was then willing to discuss him.

It's a remarkable thing. Throughout the course of the time, Thomas Tuchel is being manager.

I think every single time I have prepared, I've got the piece of paper in front of me here,

with all of the potential names that I think could be in the frame for that particular England squad,

I think every single time he has come up with a name that I haven't got on my list.

And this morning, I went to the squad announcement.

I think it was with 68 names on the list and still Jason Steele

is someone who I certainly did not have anywhere near the radar.

No, but I don't think Jason Steele will play.

I think the trial for Jason Steele, I mean, he's only played five times for Brighton,

all in the Cup competitions this season. I think it says more about his character and his

experience that what they're going to try and do over the course of this international camp,

is that they're going to see how he fits in in terms of the support structure and the network

of the goalkeepers, because the view is is that he will then go as an unregistered goalkeeper

to the World Cup, a little bit like what Tom Heaton did at the Euros in Germany,

and he will then supplement the goalkeeping coach to work with the three England keepers,

who England do name in that final squad of 26.

Just on Trent Alexander Arnold, I know that in advance of this, my feeling was,

well, anyone who's fit who's not in this squad is probably out of contention.

But in actual fact, when you look at this squad, quite a number of the players are those

who he's not seen, he's not had in his squad, like Cobbie Manu, like Harry Maguire,

like the Dominics, Solanki and Calvert Lewin. You know, see, he's seen players that he's not

had in his England squad, and he has had Trent Alexander Arnold in the squad.

And he did say to us today, didn't he, like with Luke Shaw, he said, I know what they can do.

They've played against my teams, and I've seen them play in tournaments.

So I think, as he said, they are still on the long list. So yes, they're up against it.

I don't think they're completely out of it. Or do you think they are out of it?

I think barring a spate of injuries, I just think you've got to be in contention at this.

Contrast that to the 11 players who've been named, but won't feature

in that game against Uruguay. They, to me, are certainties barring injury to go to the

World Cup. I like you think that if you're not part of this squad of 35, you've got work to do

to get in it. Incidentally, we've just seen an excellent piece of production by Gary.

This is what Gary does. So you allowed your, was it your iPad or your laptop to run out of power?

Well, it didn't allow it to do that. It allowed it to do it. It drained rather rapidly.

Who came to the rescue? So whilst we were listening to Thomas Tuch, I just said to Gary,

I said, Gary, do you have a power bank because we know we're near a power adapter to plug it in

and Gary, you came up as if by magic. And that's what you do.

Absolutely. Typical, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, power banks and histamines.

Anything of that nature and plugs and charging devices, all that kind of thing.

Microphones and I should say above when Gary comes to a match, Gary brings more equipment

than any other producer, doesn't he? You know, it's some of the, I mean, he's got a suitcase that

he looks like he's going for a fortnight in Toro Melinos. Well, listen, I'm not going to make

any disparaging comments after Gary was just helping. Yeah, yeah, yeah, remember that.

Yeah. So that, you know, let's just remember the timeline for England. These two friendlies

in March against Uruguay in Japan, which will be, will be quite unusual because of the person

now who are going to be involved. 30th of May, England have to submit their squad of 35 players

for the World Cup, which would obviously apply to Scotland as well. And that has to be whittled

down to a final squad of 26 before the first game. And then England have got two friendlies

in Florida against New Zealand and Costa Rica before the whole thing gets underway. So you'll be able

to hear all of that with us on Five Live and BBC Sounds. We should move, shouldn't we,

onto correspondence because we've still got the unintended pub names and we've still got the

great glossary of football commentary. So correspondence this week. First of all, Corey in Brazil.

Hello all. I was listening to the Manchester United versus Villa game when John mentioned that

some of the Muslim players in the United team prefer listening to the crown instead of music

before a game. John said this was the first time he'd heard of this. As a Muslim, I can say that

before, all while doing, anything that requires presence or focus, I will always choose the

crown over music. It gives us peace and connection to God. Something we're searching for even more

in this blessed month of Ramadan. I can imagine it keeps the players grounded, especially before

a big game. It was lovely to hear John mention this and I wanted to add that I feel the same

as those players. And Corey says thank you. No, thank you, Corey for that. I must say when I read

that, it was in the match programs, in the Manchester United match program before the

Eastern Villa game last weekend. And I have to confess, I've thought about that quite a lot during

the course of the past week that that's what Amadella will do. And it was an answer to the old

old question, what music do you listen to before the match? And that's what he came up with as an

answer. So yes, thank you, Corey for that. We've also had an email from Scott who says,

dear John Ian and Ali, who is away, incidentally this week, covering the athletics.

Scott says, I've been meaning to email following the chat about random items which used to be taken

into football grounds. We have a family one, which I hope will be of interest. We've always been a

family of Wolverhampton Wondra's brackets, a name which seems to have been dropped for wolves

in brackets. And I can vividly remember talking to my granddad, Brian, about the great wolves

teams of the 1940s and 50s. When it came time for my dad, Dave, to attend matches at Molenu

in the late 1960s, early 1970s, he was still a young lad. And as such, my granddad

constructed a wooden stool for him to stand on. In the corner of the South Bank terrace,

this was something they used to take from clinic to Wolverhampton via the trolley bus for each

home game. He's actually sent us a picture here and he continues. After my granddad passed away in

November 2020, my dad discovered that the stool still existed. My granddad had kept it

and used it when he needed to get to those hard-to-reach places around the bungalow.

After a slight cosmetic restoration, the stool now sits in pride of place in my parent's house,

alongside images and memories of my granddad. These include an old photo of Molenu,

which also sits above the stool, which we bought in 2022, so the stool and the South Bank

could be reunited. That's lovely, isn't it? It is. That was a great terrace as well, wasn't it?

Yeah, the South Bank. Unintended Pudnames. We always love your suggestions for these,

as we call them, or as Paul Robinson coined it, unintended Pudnames, that you've heard in any

sports commentary. So the last time we had the Chrome of Comfort and the unfortunate Medina,

this week we have an email or indeed a voice message from Leicester Fan Amit, who says,

Hi football commentator Trio. Here's an unintended Pudname from Ian Dennis, from Aston Villa

versus Leeds. Four minutes remaining. Bogard's going to be coming on for Aston Villa.

There is further activity as well as Sancio Darts in, opened up from, instead he looks towards cash

and cash can't keep the ball in play. The other change will be, it will be Garcia. So the last

throw of the dice, really, from there, from Unai Emery. Amit says, the last throw of the dice

is definitely a pub where you make bad life decisions. Well, not necessarily Amit. The last throw

of the dice, all of a sudden, you know, you might decide to have that one drink in that particular

establishment and all of a sudden, hey presto, it might change your life with the last throw of the

dice. A little bit of optimism. Good one, the last throw of the dice. Several people, as we will

now hear Ian, have picked up on another one. Yes, here's one that we missed on last week's episode

regarding the unfortunate Medina clip from the Newcastle Carabag game. Jacob Murphy involved

in the match for the first time really left for charge deflected up and in over the goalkeeper's

dive. Jacob Murphy will claim that. Now this is what I like about where we get sort of like the

description of the of the various pubs and suggestions. So Newcastle fan Hamza says, guys,

you missed another sitter when it comes to unfortunate pub names. When Jacob Murphy scores,

you said the goalkeeper's dive, definitely somewhere that the unfortunate spurs goalkeeper

will have been visiting last week and Leslie in Charlie says, surely I can't be the only one

who spotted the goalkeeper's dive from last week's episode. The dive would be a dark back street

room sticky floor, a desperate refuge for those needing to drown their sorrows. And Terry

and Bromley says the goalkeepers dive would be an appropriately grim establishment where he stressed

keepers would assemble to console each other on their latest mishaps. The background music would

be melancholy morosey tunes on loop and the pine glasses would have handles to make them harder

to drop. So thank you to Hamza, Leslie and Terry for that. And how about this from Matt in Milton

Keens? Hello, Chaps. And now they say a minute can be a long time in football. I'm

interested in this voice message just after the North London Derby, but I was absolutely sure

I wouldn't be the only person to have heard this accidental pub name. Ball played forward

Dragassin, hustling with Yuccares who goes to ground. It's the top of the man who comes out

with the ball and after that just adjusts the little bun that he has on the top of his hair with

a confident air. He has sped. It was the spurs defender that had been up for a tussle and I think

his hair would have come loose. And a poignant description of him reattaching his bun to his long

locks followed to which one of you described his hair as confident hair. And I thought

the confident hair, a grand cotswold gastro-pub full of trinkets, next door shouldn't prices.

We're talking 850 for a pint minimum. Keep up the good work.

Don't want my dog anymore because unfortunately we lost that dog just last week.

So this is a way of making me feel better and a big up to the old man Rufus who is greatly missed.

Thanks guys. Oh thank you Matt. We'll send our sympathies to Matt. Very sad news, but thanks for

the contribution and the confident hair. The way there that Matt just let the birds

tweet before he started speaking. I could conjure him walking out in the countryside.

Obviously he's thinking of Rufus. Sorry to hear of your loss with Rufus but the confident hair.

I wouldn't be partial to paying £8.50 for the pint. I've got to say. I know you wouldn't.

Just think of the way those birds were tweeting. It just felt like Rufus was watching down.

And yes emails to tcv at bbc.co.uk, WhatsApp's to 0800289369. Now it is time.

We're actually going to give the clash of the commentators a miss this week, aren't we Ian?

That's good. That's all right. I'm happy with that. I'm having a little bit of a wobble.

Well you are having a wobble and when I heard that we were giving clash of the commentators a

rest this week, I did wonder whether maybe the court for arbitration for sport had insisted maybe

that the whole thing had to be suspended while they look into the controversial.

I tell you what, I wish it would be suspended as you're talking about it.

I think the court of arbitration for sports got a bit on at the minute with the African

football federation. Yes, my delay. My delay even further.

Actually, that doesn't help my cause at all that because I'm thinking I think the decisions

gone now let it go. Yes, but you think about the time that we've had. Well said, Ian, you know,

well said. However, yes, that's very much one for regular listeners.

And actually, we've had this from Damien in York who says, thanks Damien, he says,

I can't believe that they managed to change the Africa Cup of Nations final result before

restoring justice for John following that clash of the commentators episode. Very well,

you say you just won't go away. It won't go away because you keep talking about it.

Well, it wasn't talking about Damien's talking about it. So excellent, excellent email Damien,

more like that, please. Now, let's move on. Now for the great glossary of football commentary,

as we add commentary terms and phrases to our collection, you can find our entire glossary

in the episode description. So division one for football exclusive terms, division two for

terms used in football commentary, but also used in other sports talking of which I've had a

wrap on the knuckles from Andrew Murray, you know, from part of the five live golfing team

because he texted me two weeks ago and suggested pile driver. And I said, oh, I'll mention that.

And then I didn't mention it last week. And he said, what happened to pile driver? And I just

remembered. So his suggestion is pile driver. Well, that would be division one, wouldn't it?

I can't imagine that would be in another sport, Gary pile driver.

I think that would be division one. No, I think comes to mind. No.

Last week, we put Paul Robinson's term channel of joy into division one. This week,

we have Donnie in France, who says, I've seen the phrase goalkeeper's union in your unsorted

category. Perhaps this could go into division two. I don't know enough about hockey, but I suspect

that hockey goalkeepers get together to complain about the amount of kit they need to carry compared

to their teammates. It could also be an unintended pub name overlooking the same village green

as another recent entry, the man in the middle. The goalkeeper's union would be full of

practical but slightly eccentric loners railing against the rest of the village, but sure in

the knowledge, the village wouldn't survive without them. Given the fashion for goalkeepers,

having details of penalty takers on their water bottles, regulars might have a tanker behind

the bar on which they would have engraved their friend's favorite tipple to speed up rounds being

bought. Thanks for the excellent podcast and commentaries and the recent discussion with John Hunt

was brilliant, says Donnie in France. Division two for goalkeepers union? Yeah,

hardly division one, can it? I don't think so. Not when you've got goalkeepers in other sports.

Yeah, so they'll be busy. Paul Robinson and friends want. They're going from the goalkeepers

dive to the goalkeepers union. If there's one man that can do it. It's a good point to carry.

We've had this from Dan in Sheffield. I find listening to the TCV pod the perfect way to

win at the end of a stressful working week and usher in the sporting weekend. I'd like to submit

a suggestion for the great glossary. Palm trees at football grounds have been a recent discussion

topic, but what about sting the palms of the goalkeeper? Thanks for your wonderful work.

I've listened to BBC Sports Radio commentary for over 40 years and cannot imagine my weekends

without it. Well, thank you, Dan. Thank you for listening. Well done, Dan. Excellent commitment.

I think sting the palms. See, I would say division two. Two. You think of a cover drive?

Yes, sting the palms. Yeah, you're absolutely right, Ian. Yeah. And actually, that was me talking

about palm trees, wasn't it? It was. And I was given a real lift this week going to Barcelona

where they love a palm tree in Barcelona. Of course they do. They do. Yeah, so that's that's

that real that put a that put a spring in my step this week. One more from Anthony in

Cork. During this morning's wake up to money on five live, the sports news came on with Harry Roy.

Newcastle United's run in the Champions League also came to an end two after a seven two

rubbing away in Barcelona, which means Liverpool and says Anthony, Harry referred to Newcastles

defeat to Barcelona as a seven two rubbing. A rubbing to me means a heavy defeat, a thrashing,

a hammering. I've not heard used in other sports, nor have I heard it used in daily life.

I will bow to your superior knowledge as to which division it should go into. Keep up the good work.

A rubbing, that's got to be division two. Yeah, you've had one of them in rugby, weren't you? Yeah,

you would at the very least. Yeah. What is the game that you've done where you've seen the most

goals? England won 10-0 against, somewhere you know, they did win 10-0. We did the game together.

We were all there. So apart from that one. And I think that's the only 10-0 I've

commentated on, although I've played in a few 10-0s when I was in goal. Oh,

conceded 10. Yeah, no more than one as well. You should have thrown a cap on it.

When I was at university playing at the time for the second team, we played against,

I think it was Swansea University, and I played in the first match for the second team. It was

something like first match, we lost 10, we lost 10-0, I 10-1 or something. And Kerry, who was the

first in goalkeeper, I think he went down ill. I then had to play in the next match, let it in 11.

I let him 21 goals in a day. What was it that Stamtenant was saying about his goalkeeper?

It wasn't just me. I was surprised I've never told that story before. So there we are. That is

the great glossary for this week. And in summary, we are putting goalkeepers union into division two,

sting the palms, division two, dripping, division two, and pile driver, division one.

Three! Gary, excellent, very much enjoyed having you on. Yeah, there's no need for you to email in,

no, it's not. No, no, no. Well, I mean, my email was completely and utterly dismissed. I did notice

last week. It was dismissed, we read it out. Yeah, it didn't matter in which you read it out, though.

I mean, come on. Did you take a Umbrich? Well, you obviously didn't take two. No, I'm here now.

And it's been lovely to spend time because we hardly ever get the chance to do that.

Anyway, I'm sure you've got a hazard assessment form to be filling out. I think Ali is back with

this next week, isn't he? I think. Well, anyway, listen and find out. Do keep the unintended

pub names and glossary suggestions coming in next week will be our Q&A episode. So keep those

coming in as well to tcda at bbc.co.uk or you can send us a message or voice note on WhatsApp

to 08289369. And as we always say, if you enjoy this, in actual fact, where we're supposed to do

our best work is when we do actually commentate on football matches. So listen, if you can,

to us on five live and bbc sounds, but that is it for this episode of the football daily. And remember,

you can find each and every episode of the commentator's view by scrolling down your football daily feed.

I was on drive in 50 minutes. You are, yes. I know, I know. I was going to mention that during the

second part of that, I was negotiating what time you were going to do that. I'm Rich Hall and this

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