The complexity of modern Republican politics with JD Vance

0:00Good day listeners and welcome to Don't Invite the Kool-Aid Kim Kennedy here saying welcome and greetings and so glad that you're with us. We're on the American Outlaw Radio Network and we are going to have another great conversation today. As I think we always do. I think we have a variety of guests who talk of various aspects of our culture but a lot you know it's funny listeners I was just in conversation with somebody talking about JD Vance recently and I find that there are a wise spectrum of opinions on JD Vance. Some who like him some the jury still out. Some who say they won't go for him. I wonder why that is and so I'm going to ask Frank DeVito who was written the book JD Vance in the future of the Republican Party to weigh in on that Frank. Good day and how you doing.

1:12Thanks Kim. Happy to be here. I'm doing well. Well I'm glad you're here and have you had that experience where you get a wide range of responses about JD Vance you have different opinions. Yeah I mean I think that's always going to be inevitable. I think with Vance there's a lot going on though. I think you want to put to the side the people who are already transitioning from Trump to arrangement syndrome to Vance to arrangement syndrome because that's a real thing. I predicted this before the book came out a year or two ago and then I watched the media start to shift when right after 2024 and the election and the new administration. You started to see these interviews and opinion pieces in mainstream outlets basically starting to moderate and say well you know Trump has actually been fairly moderate on a few things but if you look at JD Vance like that's the real radical as I hear the other starting to set up the you know Vance is worse than Trump. He's the new Hitler whatever but that's we'll put that off to the side within the realm of maybe more sane people. Yeah the reactions are very wide and so I guess I would say part of it for the less than enthusiastic reaction.

2:27So some of it is just the fact that he's not Donald Trump right within the Mago world is just Trump is a an unrepeatable once in a generation phenomenon right I mean the the style of the brusquely art business man he's a TV star he's quick he's witty he's maybe a little bit of stuff that not too many people can prank. That's right I mean that's he's a charismatic figure that you're never going to see again right so he JD Vance doesn't have the charisma or doesn't have the like ability or whatever of Trump OK whatever they're different people that's that's obvious Vance is definitely a I think a deeper thinker a little bit more of an intellectual definitely a little more stayed then Trump still has an edge to him but. One of the things that I think is really interesting in people's reactions you'll get this this negative reaction sometimes saying oh you know Vance is he's awkward he's not going to do well on the campaign trail he's he's not going to have the you know the enthusiasm of the crowds and I think that's media fed and just completely untrue during the 2024 election I went down to South Philly and I saw him do a rally and he's he was great I mean the way.

3:44He's very likely that he interacted with the people in the crowd with the speakers the way he works a room Vance is a formidable campaigner he's very likable one to one he's very good at handling the hostile media right he does the circuit he can even handle the crazy ladies at the view he's he's very good so very good job with them yeah yeah and that's not easy they're they're loud and hostile but I think so that's some of it some of it is style differences some people are just comparing him to Trump and I think that's very good. Some people are just comparing him to Trump and that's not fair but then I think at the end of the day you're also getting to some real tensions in the in the Republican party and in the conservative coalition that are real divides and I mean I wish I could go into all of it you'll have to read the book to get all of these these tensions and kind of through lines within the party but I think the the two biggest things that I'll point out are real quick are one we have a break right before Trump there was this kind of understanding of the Republican party as in a way you know the party of the religious right sure at least in some sense but largely on economics this is the party of big business and the party of the big business man and Trump started to break that open not entirely but for the first time in decades the Republican party is being seen increasingly as the party of the the ordinary working class American and with that comes I think different

5:11priorities and ways that you look at economics right as a successful economy one with a high GDP and a high you know S&P or or is it about the like the median wages of your average worker those are different things and they'll require different emphasis in policy I think dance very openly stands with the latter and that makes people uncomfortable because it tends to poke at some maybe free market orthodoxies although I think Vance is largely a free market guy but I think that's one dispute and I think that's one dispute and the other one is just inevitably foreign policy I think everybody knew this beforehand but especially with the Iran war you have this spectrum on the right of people from very interventionist maybe more hawkish foreign policy folks to extremely isolationist I don't think Vance or Rubio for that matter fits either extreme but on the spectrum Vance is definitely more of a realist more of a questioner of what we are doing before we go and intervene in foreign military conflicts and that again this really pokes at some divides because the right is not united on our foreign policy so yeah you have the tone and the style but I think at the end of the day there are some real policy issues and like I said those are two big ones but in the that's a lot of what I focus on in the book why is JD Vance such a lightning rod and a forerunner of what's going to happen in the post Trump Republican party.

6:31You know in some ways Frank I think his he might be more tougher than Trump is on a lot of topics on a lot of issues I see that in ice and you know who who did Trump tap to deal with corruption his go to got JD Vance and you know I mean they are the more you read about Minnesota it's I know these terms are used all the time but it truly is mind boggling the depths and the breath of the corruption and I guess they knew that and I just think that they are going for it and they are ruthlessly digging it out I mean JD Vance is a bulldold that's how it comes across to me do you think that's just a face he puts on or does that really describe who he is. I think it's I see a couple of things here I think for one Trump is largely and I don't say this as an insult I think in some ways it's been a very good thing but I don't think Trump is much of a political ideologue I don't think he has much of a political philosophy and so a lot of what he's done has been there were definitely a couple issues he came in very strong in his beliefs on right.

7:49Basically the globalist question right are we a country with borders and what kind of deal are we getting in our relations with the rest of the world so that affected you know his he had very strong views on economics and tax policy on immigration certainly and on trade and war to a certain extent but largely Trump is a transactional guy right he knew what it would take to build a coalition that was workable he would trade horses and make deals but I think I think it's not going to be a great deal I think it's not going to be a great deal I think it's not going to be a great deal. But I think Vance I know Vance is definitely has deeper politically political principles that he is has a deep grasp of and so that doesn't make him an ideologue he's a smart political operative he'll know how to work with the realities of factional politics but I think that will change the game a little bit I think he's more likely to rigorously pursue things because he has a more principled stance on a lot of issues so I think that's probably a big part of the the bulldog thing. But the other thing that I'll say is I think politics as we all know is not just about ideas it's about people right we saw this in Trump one Trump came in on a you know a platform that shook the world and carried him into the White House but a platform does not make actual political changes you need to fill your cabinet with like minded loyalists you need people actually working in the agencies and working in the White House who are going to enact your job.

9:17So I think that's a big part of the idea that you're a agenda rather than thwart and slow walk it and Trump one was riddled with that. Yeah you need people Frank who actually first of all believe in America and support the Constitution and support American ideals I mean we know now that last couple of administrations prior to Trump helped they are part of the problem as to why the country the world is in the shape it's in. I don't think Frank and I'd love to hear your way on this I don't think that many people realize it especially this country how bad things are what Iran was about to do and a lot of mere Putin just came down saying well I'm on the Iran side I'm on that team and all that is at stake I mean he's talking about the plan to save the West and I'd like to hear what your thoughts are on that do you think that's going to be a great deal. And that do you think that's Mrs. the more.

10:17So no I think you're right and I think this is actually I'll use this to talk about I think an important point about Vance and about the evolution of the Republican party in the last few years because you know a lot of people will say that Vance and most of these Republicans are just opportunists right they were legacy bush Romney Republicans and then they saw the writing was on the wall so they flip flop then became Trump mega guys but you have Vance said something brilliant and I think that's the way to do it. I think brilliant and I get I write about this extensively in my book but he gave an interview during the 2024 election where he was asked about the shift from very anti Trump to very mega right and he said you know what shifted was not my principles what shifted was my view of how bad the American institutions are right if you're your basic idea as well you know the our schools are military our media outlets all of the stuff is you know it's swung to the left but that's not the way to do it. But they're fundamentally healthy and there and eventually they'll swing back if that's your I think rather naive view of the state of America and the state of our institutions then Trump is poison right he's you know there's bombas there's extremism this is really unhealthy but what Vance says is actually as I started to mature a little to get more involved in politics I realized that actually the institutions are just as bad as or maybe worse than Trump was saying and that's the shift.

11:40Yeah yeah Frank see I'm listening to you and I'm thinking to myself you're making the case for drain the swamp reduce the size of government how much if we lost 75% of these NGOs in these extra organizations how much better off with the country deal to scale one to 10 in your opinion. Oh one to 10 I don't know I would say probably somewhere in the middle because I think it's so much deeper to be honest because you get rid of the NGOs but you still have the academies you still have the public schools that are just right with America hating communists right make them make them compete Frank make them compete. Yeah if we I'm an institutional sorry go ahead no no go ahead I'm finished with thought I'm an institutional pessimist I mean you can defunding is definitely an important start right we should like the these a wokified communist colleges and universities should get not a dime of taxpayer funding but so yes you cut the the federal spigot and then you stop the date with deal with the state spigot but you're right at a certain point there are enough.

12:50Enough people who are so reliant on the federal dole that you do have to cut off the pipeline pretty drastically if you want to even have a hope of starting to bring them to heal but with very particular demands right it's not just shut off the money it's you're not going to have an administrator of DEI you're going to hire professors with this money and if you're hiring communist professors you're all you know you have to have very specific solutions along with the the cutting off of funds it's the cult the institutions are really bad this is a lot of money. This is one of my focuses right now on the state of education in particular American institutions in general I think even you know the USAID deep funding great step but we've done like 1% of what needs to be done frankly if we're actually going to bring the deep state and all the rot to heal. I can I you know it's really heartening to me we've got a couple minutes before you go to our first break but it's heartening to me to see so many everyday citizens getting involved because they're waking up have been waking up and realize that the deep state isn't going to fight for their liberties just like our forefathers did as we celebrate our countries 250th anniversary this year we have to be involved in that fight we have to be the ones who and and gris fruits work has always been so much more important than the other

14:10successful and it has been especially with I think in Valor fraud it's been very successful and the couple minutes we have what are your thoughts on that. Yeah so I think you you make a good point about the deep state I just I'll finish this first segment with that the there are a lot of people including friends of mine on the intellectual right who who want to grasp these institutions and obviously we need to train our own people to be good effective government workers right we need good people to actually fix a lot of this stuff. And it acts good policy but at the end of the day these I think a lot of them are intrinsically liberal institutions they exist and they want to make themselves bigger and they want to make sure nothing happens and so I'm I'm pretty pessimistic about reforming them I think slash burn and is is the way to go for a good amount of the the federal bloke that we have I don't think you can reform a lot of this. I think what you're saying is we didn't get here overnight we're not going to get out of here overnight but I think they've made quite a bit of progress what are your thoughts.

15:10I think so I think you're right this has been decades long I mean Woodrow Wilson and then FDR created this deep state it's been about a hundred years in the making Trump has done a lot this administration's done a lot but it's been a year and a half and you're not going to fix all of it so yes the slashing setting the stage to try to deep and and limit the size of a lot of these agencies really good. Start but I think yeah this is a long March this is going to take decades to fix not not months. And that comes folks I believe is. Reintroducing the greatness of the Constitution to citizens and teaching civics where they discover the power that the founders gave to them through that document and that's where a real revolution starts I do believe but. We are up against a break listeners and time always goes fast around here we're talking to attorney and author Frank DeVito he's written a book called JD bands and the future of the Republican party we're going to find out a little bit more about him when we come back to or from our next segment and you're also going to learn about some other things that he has to share with us.

16:25I really appreciate his insights because as I said at the beginning lots of opinions about JD bands out there but being a weakling is not one. Adjective you here to describe him and I'm thankful for that but listeners we do have to take a break please stay with us we'll be right back after these messages successful weight loss is about changing the gut brain relationship with food I'm Dr Kelly victory with the wellness company if you don't like needles you'll love. This doctor designed solution works by targeting the GLP one and GIP receptors that influence appetite and metabolism. Terzepity helps with food portion reduction and satiety while changing how the brain responds to engineered sugars and unhealthy fats and unlike injections these are fast absorbing subling will tablets placed under the tongue paired with an energy boost of B6 and B12. The TWSC dot health slash out loud and use code out loud for an exclusive discount oral hygiene hasn't changed in 50 years brush floss repeat or told to use fluoride which doesn't really address the acid creating bacteria.

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19:53Welcome back listeners. You're so thankful that you're joining us here. I'll don't abide the cool aid. Kim Kennedy the host for today's program and a little distracted today. I'm thinking about all the things I want to squeeze into our program. As I said at the end of the last break, he is the author of the book JD Vance and the future of the Republican Party. That is available at the usual places. Amazon.com. I'm sure other sites that sell things Walmart.com. Frank, you are an attorney and a conservative commentator tell our guests or listeners. Excuse me. A little bit about your background. Yeah, be glad to. So going way back very briefly, but I grew up in an irreligious house. I was not really raised with any faith. My parents were kind of middle class, but not particularly definitely not in this world. I didn't have any lawyers in my immediate family or anything like that.

20:54Became an atheist and quite a troublemaker as a teenager went through a lot of chaos and had a radical conversion and became a devout Catholic and my right after high school into early college. And from there, I actually spent several years in formations. I was in a seminary. I lived in a monastery for a couple of years. So I have a lot of philosophical theological spiritual formation background. And then I got out and had to figure out what to do to when I realized that wasn't what I was going to do with my life and wanted to get married. How do you raise a family? Law school just seemed interesting. It was really as simple as that. Everything since then has seems to be God's providence how I've ended up here. I figured I would just work in a firm or work for a prosecutor's office and make a living and raise kids. And that would be that. And I do make a living and raise kids. I have five little kids. But the everything else has been, you know, I got myself involved in local politics and then was advising on a congressional campaign and then started turning some of that work into essays and then started to be a published author and then a speaker and then a commentator and

21:59it all has seemed to come together in a pretty pretty exciting way. Much more fun than I thought I would ever be having in my professional life. Awesome. Exciting and busy life and we appreciate your insights and we interrupted you in the middle of the thought because we came up against a commercial break. So you want to pick up where you left off? I actually want to pick up on we're talking about America's institutions, but I want to pick up where you ended this segment because you said something about renewal and you know saving this country being rooted in the Constitution. And I want to talk just very briefly. This is something I'm working on. It's an essay. I'm going to be publishing later this year about our Constitution because I think the brilliance of it and the ancient classical and Christian roots of it are often underestimated. And especially from the Catholic intellectual tradition, which is where I write and think from I think we miss the brilliance. So I don't want to get too esoteric, but I'm a big fan and student of St Thomas Aquinas 13th century medieval one of the most brilliant lights of philosophy and theology in the history of the church.

23:05But he wrote about forms of government and it's interesting because he wrote at a time when basically everyone was run by some kind of monarchy. But he said in his writing in the sumat theologica he says, you know, the ideal form of government will have monarchical aristocratic and democratic elements. And then he goes into why that is you need some sense of monarchy because a monarchy is a united decision maker, right? If the decision maker is too divided by too many people can't get anything done. Aristocracy just means rule by the best. So you need something that is ruled by by like the smartest the bright doesn't mean like a you know the landowner aristocracy, but a natural aristocracy which many of our founders appreciated and most of them were natural aristocrats by their brilliance. And then you need some element of democracy to to give popular validity right the people who are citizens have some share in their own rule. And it's interesting because he writes this in like medieval 13th century chrysanthem.

24:07But that division is the US Constitution. I mean the American presidency is somewhat monarchical right he's a very powerful solo ruler. The Senate and the judiciary are very aristocratic not particularly responsive to the people at least in their initial form. And then the House of Representatives is very much a democratic element that brings the people's voices from the different regions and places around the country together. And so I think it's just it's such a brilliant separation of powers that we have in our constitution that really has the ability to be the best form of government I think that that has ever been seen in in maybe in world history. But we have some problems because the deep state right the administrative state has made it almost impossible for any of those branches to do what they're supposed to do in their proper constitutional roles. Well said and I think you're spot on and they were you know I still remember when I learned that John Quincy Adams became an ambassador at the age of nine it's like there must be a typo here.

25:11But education was very very different back in those days everything was very different. And you know the more you dig in I want to get to all far off topic but our modern culture was created by people like the Rockefellers and others in that category basically were set up to relieve people like myself of their money. The modern pharmaceutical movement the modern education movement. It has really we're not as progressive as the wrong word for the Democrat party they they regressed us quite a bit but that I'm going to stay on topic because we could go off on a tangent there we won't. But I did want to talk to you about recently Rick DeSantis executive order via Florida Department of transportation permit revocation as being a durable or a stopgate that the legislator could reverse.

26:14I guess that has to do with spying and tracking people I was interested in your take on that. Yeah so this is particularly relevant because everybody's talking about these flock cameras now right which are essentially banned by this executive order so I think it's a fascinating thing because you have kind of constitutional questions and in the strict sense is it a fourth amendment violation are you you know are these unreasonable searches to have these flock cameras. Tracking everybody's every move I don't know they're not going inside the car they're not going inside the truck I'm going to leave that to the side but I think that there are two huge problems that I see with with with their related problems with this movement so first of all I applaud the governor of Florida for for just knocking this stuff out for one. This is just it's so dangerous and it's not what's advertised right you see these flock cameras like oh this is just a great way for police to track you know the whereabouts of criminals because you can get their make and model and license plate numbers yeah it's doing a lot more than that in the a.i. world you can track movement patterns right if you're commuting if you stop at this store every day if you stop at this beer distributor every Friday evening they know pretty easily through these cameras exactly where everybody is.

27:33Going where they tend to go where they've been everywhere on every road that is disturbing and so to just sell this as well we're just using it to track criminals and solve crimes like this is so far beyond that at least be honest about the capabilities of these things and what they're doing and that's why there's so much backlash why people are becoming vigilantes and cutting these things down because it's just a false bill of goods this is not just a way for police to track it's so open to corruption as we've already seen stories of you know police. Office are stalking their ex wives through these things and seeing where they're going very disturbing stuff well you know that was going to happen of course and then the last thing I'll say to is that if we're peddling this as an answer to dealing with crime which a lot of what you're seeing even some people on the right are saying well don't you want things that are going to help stop crime like yeah I do and there's a really simple answer the problem with crime is that our police officers are and our DAs are are not. Being directed to enforce the law especially a lot of major metropolitan cities i'm sorry most of the crimes that are being committed that are creating lawlessness and chaos in our communities are not because some criminal mastermind needs to be trapped on the cameras most of these things are happening in broad daylight by criminals that aren't that smart but we don't have police who actually have the the authority to enforce the law.

28:56Frank this is where ideology comes in what you know I mean what is the communist manifesto say you know you have to you have to destroy the old before you bring in the new. And I you might be able to describe better for me how the new will be a thousand times worse than the old i'm sure you study about communism and we take every opportunity weekend talk to people say you don't want that you don't want to lose your representative government you don't want to give up your liberty. How would you describe it. Yeah I think a lot of this comes from historical ignorance because it doesn't take much learning about history to see how this plays out right you. You take away liberties you take away the system of government that that comes from our western tradition and you replace it with communism right or some kind of socialism so you take away the free market competition and entrepreneurship takes a nose dive the state has to come in and take hold of all of our industries so they sell the oil they sell the food. They're not efficient or very good at it so you end up having to ration it prices go up people get poorer they get hungry and then mixed with that you have so much social unrest that the only way to keep any kind of order is to have a police state I mean that's this is not fear mongering this is what the Soviet Union was this is what happens every time you have a communist takeover of a country it gets poorer it gets less free it gets to be a terrible place to live.

30:22I think the problem is we have short memories because for one I don't know that public schools are really teaching history but also we're at a point where the Soviet Union has been demolished for what 35 plus years now and so you have two generations of voters including my own generation who didn't grow up with any prominent examples of communism being a major talking point in you know in public discourse I mean China is still a communist country but only kind of and we don't really talk about that and we don't really talk about that and we don't really talk about that. So it's just not on people's radar the way it was during the group. Frank one was the last time you read an in-depth article in a New York Times or Washington Post about the realities of living in North Korea or what that is well he was like before and now there's a book for you to write Frank. I can't just get into it all but seriously we are yeah and the press is cooperative in this because many of them share leftist ideas of course we know that with the leftist the way that you and I live are very different than those at the top right.

31:26That's right and to your point right we don't read about these things partially because places like North Korea suppress any stories leaving their country about what's going on there but partially because of media bias but the reality is if these were good places to live. Why do we get so many immigrants fleeing these places and trying to come here. We have to build more people out. Yeah North Korea doesn't let people leave why is that but such a great place to live right it's kind of common sense. But you have to say it because there's either no information or just out-and-out lies and we've talked to so many people. I don't know if you're familiar with the area that I live in like Bucks County has a ton of East Europeans from Ukraine and you get to know these people you talk to them. It's an eye opener and they don't forget they know if you disobey the government there is a serious price to pay and I just read a statistic last night Frank and this is mind-boggling but every day 13 Christians are killed by Muslim militants.

32:33So when King Charles says that it's a religion of love and peace I think he needs to revisit that you know. Yeah you know it's very different than Christian thinking where we can agree or disagree to various degrees but it never occurs to us to say well I'm going to kill you because you disagree with me on point A, B and D or something like that. That's not a part of our thinking or culture but there it is very much so in fact I have read that a moderate Muslim should be careful because they'll kill them too. This crazy stuff man I mean this is really really unbelievable and it should be talked about more because I certainly don't want that in my life and in my country so that's why we do what we do but Frank I want to talk to you about what's some are concerned about violations of the fourth amendment and listeners that would be protection from unreasonable.

33:39Seasers and searches by the government do you think that concerns voiced by some in the culture do you think that they're legitimate. Are you talking particularly about these block cameras in the surveillance state that and of course you know ice doing its job and a combination of things you know look I drive the Pennsylvania term pike all the time and they did away with toll booths and they've got those things across the roads and well it's just for. Paying your toll no it's not they're collecting all kinds of information on you yeah but your thoughts please yeah so I think the the operative word in the fourth amendment is reasonable right unreasonable searches and seizures are forbidden and so we have certain cases where our law has developed to say reasonable means you need probable cause so you usually need to get a warrant so that's I think a really good dividing line is it reasonable for the government to. So I think that's a really good way to get up these these cameras and these systems where for some minor convenience or some claim to you know better enforcement of the law they're collecting every single move we make I I tend to think I'm not a fourth amendment scholar but I don't tend to think that that's a reasonable thing I think the burden on our our freedom and our privacy are vastly outweigh the government need for that so I would be very skeptical but then on the other hand when you're talking about something like ice like are these.

35:05Are these reasonable searches and seizures I mean we have depending on who you listen to tens of millions of people who are here illegally we're quite literally overrun we don't even know how many there are people talk about how well most of them are peaceful we don't know that because the big blue cities are not keeping good records on them. You're you're spot on Frank because I asked someone who is in law enforcement and is in a position to know that he's a guest on our program Michael let's. I said are the numbers on reported about crimes committed by illegals who said you better believe it now to me that's a reasonable search if you're here illegal illegally you're breaking a law so you know you you're you don't technically don't have constitutional rights because that's a citizen right. Right or even if you do have a constitutional right that the government meets its burden because the idea is there has to be probable cause that you're breaking the law if they know you're here illegally or they have reasons to suspect that you're here legal you're you're breaking a law that's probable cause that you're breaking a law just being here illegally doesn't matter if you've committed a burglary or a robbery or a violent crime the being here unlawfully is a crime that justifies you know searches seizures detention.

36:18So what does that tell you Frank about those who make laws if they're okay with them being broken i'm going to ask you to think on that question because I know you're not going to believe us but we are up against another break this has been a great conversation time is flying but you know let's there's these are this is this is not just nice conversations that we're having somebody like Frank and we're going to get to that in our third. And last segment is talking about what do we do is this information one thing and I say this all the time i'm going to say it again is that the left does a superb job of organizing and implementing the right not so much Frank would you agree with it. Yes i like to start making some inroads but yes i think it starts with holding people accountable i'll get into our conversation i got a break i got a break but it talks about you know we start with that to me that's one of the basis things of civics. civics is you know if you pay someone to represent you they should be answering to you so having a communication with them on some sort of a regular basis is very important and i'm going to you know what i'm not going to develop that thought let's take a break folks it's our last break so stay with us you're listening to don't invite the collate on the America out loud radio network we're talking with Frank to video we'll be right back.

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39:48Welcome back listeners to don't invite the cool aid Kim Kennedy welcoming you back to the program on your host for today and we've been talking with Frank to video who's written a book on JD Vance why don't you tell her listeners a little bit more about that book. Sure so basically the book does to to main things that I thought were really important and very timely when I published it earlier this year for one truck chose Vance as his VP even though he was young relatively politically inexperienced not from a swing state not a big put you know. Demographic pickup of votes so I thought there's a good chance he's choosing a hopeful successor for the post Trump Republican party who is this guy and what does he mean for the Republican party after Trump so a lot of what I do in the book is just go back through JD Vance's track record you know what was he writing what was he saying in his speeches in his essays especially before he was even a political candidate what are his core beliefs what is he think about the American dream about policy what kind of laws did he propose when he was a senator.

40:51So that's part of it just who is this guy beyond what you can get from his own you know memoir and then the second part was how does JD Vance and his core political thought square with the future of the Republican party right what are the tensions what are the questions of the coalition that makes up the Republican party what all that look like after Trump and how does Vance fit into it so I've not seen any other book like it I think if you want a treatment of for one who is Vance but for two how is the post Trump Republican party going to shake out whether your advance fan or not there's really no other book out there like that to answer these questions and really get to the heart of some of these big issues. I know we were talking about things of the Constitution I want to get to that I want to finish that conversation but I do want to ask you do you think that he's a shoe in as the nomination for the next Republican convention. I don't think he's a shoe in but I think that has to do with one person and everybody says oh it's Rubio he's the wild card no the wild card is Donald Trump right so I think Donald Trump still has enough of a hold on the Republican party that if he directly endorses a candidate that candidate will be the nominee without much fanfare there'll be a primary but not a serious one that's my read and if Trump has hinted right he thinks Vance would be great he said Vance Rubio should run together he said this more than once

42:14but he's not committed to a candidate and then recently he was just like oh he headsets doing a great job he might run you know there are a lot of people who are going to run so he's Trump likes to play TV host and keep the drama going but I think that's the real question who is Trump going to endorse because that will be the candidate if I were a betting man I would say Vance is the front runner for that endorsement and therefore for the nomination but I don't think it's a shoe in. I don't either I think DeSantis will run again I think he will throw his hat in and he has he's demonstrated he's a good guy when he's doing down there and he does not back down he's proven so you got to throw that in the mix for considerations what about his relationship with Peter Teal J.V. Vance's relationship what do you have to say about that? Yeah I think so Teal was on a personal level even though Teal is a rather unorthodox Christian he's the first intellectual that Vance ever encountered who spoke seriously about Christianity so Teal I think has a very personal spot and Vance's life and in his own conversion back to the church and then obviously he went and worked with Teal for a little while Teal is a very eccentric idiosyncratic guy so I think people who will say

43:31Oh you know Vance is a friend of Teal he took Teal money so he's gonna be a puppet for Silicon Valley I think that's way overblown I think Teal has done he has a ton of money and he's a weird guy and he kind of picks people who he just thinks are promising on the right smart young entrepreneurial guys who he think could be power players And he throws money at them. He did it with Blake Masters in Arizona. He did it with JD Vance and JD Vance stuck and became a power figure. So obviously Teal was an early influence on Vance's Christian journey, but I take Vance at his word when he says, this is what I write. This is what I think. This is what I say. These are my issues and I'm not beholden to any of my donors to do their bidding. So I think to me that's about the extent of it. You know, a lot of people use the term these days, you knew party, you knew party, meaning that there's a gradual blending of Democrat and Republican.

44:32And I think there's some merit to that. I don't know if I'm 100% sold on that, but I you see them moving together. Trump has had seismic impact on the parties. He has exposed fraud in both of them corruption. And for many on the right, including me, they do nothing Republicans. I mean, they let they let the Constitution be abused by horrible people in office who were clearly doing the agenda of others. And we know that that's been proven. And so is there the possibility of a another party emerging that becomes like the people's party or something? I mean, what are your thoughts on that frame? Yeah, two thoughts on this very good question. So in terms of the third party question, you look historically, well, you look structurally at how America's party system shakes out and we're not parliamentary. So we don't really have the ability to have three, four or five parties that build coalitions and the same way that England or like maybe Canada can do.

45:38So typically when a third party rises, it's because there's there's a need, but then they end up becoming one of the two parties and subsuming it right. The in the early American tradition, the Federalists disappear and then you have the Wigs rise up and then the Wigs fall apart when the Republican party of Abraham Lincoln rises. So you usually don't have a third party that survives for long. It either fails or it replaces one of the other two. I don't know where we are. It's too early for me to predict that I think it really depends on what 2028 looks like and what the Republican party does from here because it's an uphill battle for a third party to rise. I don't see the conditions as quite there yet, but it's possible. The other thing I'll say about your big, bigger question about the unit party though is I think a lot of this is structural, you know, we talked about the administrative state and I think that's the problem. Congress, whether you're a Democrat or a Republican, a liberal, a conservative has given most of its power away to administrative agencies, right.

46:38So I really see Congress passing concise clear laws that actually legislate and answer a problem. You see delegation, right. The legislature passes a law that says we want this and this and that. And so we're delegating rulemaking authority to the EPA or to the department of whatever. And so Congress gives away its power to an administrative system that is not elected and that it just runs very differently from a democratically elected branch of government. They're incentivized to do very little. They're incentivized to grow their own power and influence. It's very hard to get anything but a do nothing Congress when they like to just delegate their power to administrative agencies. And I think in a similar way in the executive branch, if the president gets elected, but he has hundreds of thousands of bureaucrats who he really can't fire without cause and they can undermine him at every turn, it's going to be very hard for anything but the status quo to keep happening. So I think unless you have really revolutionary returns to Congress actually making law, the executive office actually being run by the president.

47:46I don't see anything but a unit party. I think that's true. Even if a third party comes up, because unless you can clear out the raw of these non elected, you know, lower officials, I don't see anybody being able to govern. And that, Frank, is a perfect description of how pass civilizations have collapsed inwardly. And what we're seeing in many Western countries, you can have a constitution. But if you don't have people who practice the principles of self government, which in our case is a particularly Christian ideal, you know, teach that in Islam. There's a gazillion rules, what will happen if you look the wrong way or, you know, whatever. But the idea that people recognize the their accountability and their responsibility before God and recognize the power to keep the law is the work of the Holy Spirit because we're sinners, right. And we need God's inward help helping us to do the right thing. And as that's been rejected by succeeding generations, you know, here, Canada, US, New Zealand, Australia, they've become weakened and they have emboldened our enemies.

48:55And we see that with the threat of Islam here in this country, which I think is a real one. If you study their history, do you ever read any of Bill Federer's books? He's written a book on the Quran, whatever American needs to know about the Quran, the guy did amazing research. But it's, it's something that every, his information, we talked about this earlier information that Americans need to know. This is information they need to know. Now, what are you trying to get people to hate each other? No, I kind of think that if Cambodians over what two million Cambodians were killed by Camille Rouge, maybe if they had known about Paul Pond, what the guy was really like, maybe they would have made some different decisions, maybe not, but knowledge is power, tyrants feel fear and informed people. Your thoughts, I would like to hear your answer. Yes, you made this, you made this point at the end of the last segment and then just brought it back up here. So I want to highlight this. It, we are in great danger of forgetting that in all of human history, there has never been a political regime that acknowledges the inherent dignity of every person, including the weak and the lame and women and children and the disabled.

50:12So it's only Christianity that has brought these things into the culture and we forget that at our peril, right? We have this like secular humanist thing that wants to jettison Christianity, but you know, talk about universal human rights and all this stuff. That is all running on the fumes of Christianity, right? It is only Christianity that gives us this. If anybody's interested in this topic, by the way, there's a woman named Luis Perry. I don't know if you're familiar with her. She's a, she has a column at the Wall Street Journal, but she's a, she's English. She wrote this piece at first things magazine a couple years ago called We Are Repagonizing and she points to all these problems. Look, ancient Rome, right, they exposed infants, they raped lower class servants. One of this was really frowned upon. You'll find this in every non-Christian culture that there are no rights of the weak. There are no rights that are inherent to every citizen anywhere, but Christianity. When you get rid of Christianity, you are inevitably chipping away at those rights and they will not exist. And so whether the future culture is Islam or it's some kind of rising paganism, if it's not Christianity, you're not going to have universal human rights. You're not going to have a good society.

51:23We were so well-said it. And the world has seen this before when you look folks in the book of Genesis when God says, you know, the world is horrible, it's corrupt, it's violent, there's gross sexual excesses. And we don't look too far to see those things today, but he judged God, judges in. And that's not a popular thing to say these days Frank. But God is love. Yes he is. The fact that I'm here today and I know I have sinned against his love many times, but the idea that, you know, if he is ignored, if he is kicked to the curb, if we take lightly his commands, there's a, Hebrews talks about a certain fearful looking for judgment. Yes. So, yeah, we need to, yeah, we need a moment of silence just to think on that folks. But in the meantime, while we're waiting for whatever the future holds, it's our part to be a part of creating that future.

52:23And doing the will of God. And I believe, I think you believe that too, that standing up for unbored people, for speaking out on these gender surgeries. And are they helpful? Do they, do they treat symptoms or did they ultimately harm young people making decisions? They're really not equipped to make trying to stay on topic here. But when we're talking about electing a president, we want to elect somebody who recognize the validity of the points that we're making here. Yes. And, you know, that's one of the things that I've been really excited about in the public life of JD Vance, right? He's a fairly new conver and he's trying to, he says this openly, I'm trying to figure out how being a Christian and being a statesman go together because it's a tough tension to do this stuff. But he is actually bringing Christian principles into the public square, right? When the immigration debate came up, he was all over Twitter for a while in early 2025 invoking Augustin and Aquinas and this idea of the order of loves, right?

53:25What is the love and the duty that we owe to our family, to our neighborhood, to our town, to our community, to our country, and then to the whole world? They're not the same. There's an order. This is an ancient Christian principle or when talking about war, you know, what is a just war? What are the conditions that justify going to war because war is horrible? He invokes again Augustin's ancient doctrine, Christian doctrine of just war theory. So I think this is really important stuff that we have somebody at this highest level of statesmanship and political office now who's willing to, and Marco Rubio is actually very good on this too. Talking about Christian principles and how they relate to American policy. I think this is a sign of hope and a real necessity. You know, I love what you just said because you know talking, discussing ideas. Remember the debate team? I've said this before on other conversations I've had with people. What happened to the art of having debates and talking and discussing ideas and that that was a hallmark of our culture instead of these dictates being shot down from government officials who don't provide backup.

54:28And when we have researchers who look into stuff a lot of times you find that, well, let's start with COVID, right? I only have two minutes left. I mean, it's fine for that, but that blue that stuff out of the border of fire beware. Don't believe what you hear from the government. If Ronald Reagan said that, what did he say to me? Well, there are a couple. The one I was thinking of was if right be afraid when the government comes knocking at your door and says, don't worry, I'm here to help. Don't don't don't walk run. It's a great point, but folks, we've been talking with Frank DeVito and he's written a book called JD Vance in the future of the Republican Party. I think you'll want to read it, especially in light of making informed decisions about who to vote for because another thing that I wanted to talk to Frank about maybe in the future Frank, but the absence of information about candidates. How do you, especially on a local level, state at a local level?

55:31Yeah, you know, you're standing in. I've stood in the booth with this with my phone, Googling names. I've gone on the website, so my local Republican party can't find out their positions. So I appreciate you writing this book so we can take a more in depth look at this man. So I'm sure you can find that at amazon.com listeners find out about that. Frank, I got a minute left. What's the final thought you want to leave our listeners with? Yeah, I would just say to your point about access to information JD Vance gives us something really unusual, which is why I wrote the book is that you don't just get campaign slogans in a website. He's written essays op ads. He's given in depth speeches. He gives us so much insight into what he thinks about culture and religion and politics and policy. And it's all collected in my book. It's why I wrote the book. There's so much in there that can really give you a uniquely informed insight into what might be the most important Republican in the country right now. All right, folks, I think that Frank has given a small food of reasons to purchase this and read it Frank. Thank you for visiting with us today. We know you're busy guy, but really appreciate you stop and buy and busy with us on the program.

56:42It was a pleasure to be here. I'll be happy to come back. Okay, thank you Frank listeners, make it a great day. You