The cure for FOMO with Tech Contrarians

0:00Very happy to welcome back to investing experts, Sara Awad from Tech Contrarians, who we've talked to many times most of the time where tech has been doing very well and investors have been largely bullish, not very much the case today. Sara, welcome back to the show. I'd love it if you would catch us up what you're thinking about today as news is ever changing. The tech space is in people's minds, but not in the same way. How are you looking at the markets right now? So first thanks for having me back. It's always a great time to talk with you about the tech space and everything happening in general. So great question, really the backdrop on tech, especially after Q1 as we wrap up Q1 is definitely different from the tone that we saw for the bulk of 2025. I think even last time we spoke, which was around mid-February, and I was pre-war, we talked

1:03about this dynamic that was building in the market between a tug of war, between greed and fear, and more weighted towards the latter, people were kind of afraid, premium valuations kind of. We started seeing big tech companies like Broadcom or Nvidia report stellar numbers, but the stock still seemed relatively broken. And we saw that continue on and off through Q1, there's definitely a lot more investor scrutiny on the AI cap expand, specifically on the roadmap of where we're heading in this AI cycle. We saw guys like Credo do exceptionally well, but the stock still is depressed year-to-date down, I think, about 37%. And so even heading into this war, I think that's what a lot of people forget. Even heading into this war that's really taking up the full of March, the market was on edge, especially when it comes to tech. And so that dynamic between greed and fear only really intensified in the current backdrop, I would say, the war really started markets, but at the beginning we saw people, investors

2:05act relatively complacent, and I think that this was an extent a foe more at a conditioning because of what we saw last April with the April liberation day from Trump, the whole market melted, and then a couple of days later we had a buy signal from a true social post and then a 90-day pause and everything really rallied from there. So everyone's kind of worried about missing out seemingly on that aha moment, on that comeback. And that's why I think markets are so caught up on Trump's every true social post, right? And so we're seeing this kind of dynamic play out. And at the same time, it's interesting because just as investors are kind of watching how this workplace out, watching for a signal of resolution from Trump, I think Trump, the way we're looking at it, Trump is also very much in tune to how financial markets are pricing this in. And so if we look back at the totality of March, every time we saw the market really begin to price in the gravity of this situation, it is a potentially catastrophic situation if

3:08we don't get a resolution sooner if we see this dragged on further, every time we saw the market really begin to price in the gravity of that. We had a post from Trump kind of signal that things are going well or that this is going to be resolved soon. So we saw this on March 9th, markets began to price in the heat, SMP was falling, that was falling before Trump came out and he said, if you remember, the war is very complete, pretty much, and kind of gave that kind of mini relief rally. Again we saw this on the 24th of March and then again we saw this, you saw that last one day, we saw this this Monday and we were, you know, over each and every time of this, I think the dynamic that's showing up is that the relief rallies are more and more kind of losing steam. So there's less faith in, you know, a resolution to the sooner and I think that especially, you know, that turned around last week when we saw the Iran side really kind of, you know, deny potential talks that are happening towards a resolution and that was really the card that Trump was pointing forward in these posts.

4:11And it takes two to take what the end of the day. So when the counterpart is denying talks, I think that came as a huge kind of red flag for the markets and that's why we saw a cell-off continuing through Thursday, even after Trump extended that deadline until April 6th and then we saw that really continuing to yesterday and then today we're seeing things turn around a bit with the most recent update that Iran is also ready to perhaps put an end to this if, you know, there's given specific guarantees and this comes in light of Trump saying that the war or the Wall Street journal saying that Trump said that the war could potentially be resolved even without the reopening of the straight-up hormones. So there's a lot of different moving parts. I think we've seen the weight of this, you know, worn and wear the importance of its shift a lot throughout this conversation, but I think one thing remains true if we, you know, think about this in terms of takeaway, that the market trusts Trump, even if it's, you know, against a better judgment, everyone has that overarching form of fear. No one wants to miss out on the rally that comes out of the resolution of this war.

5:11And simultaneously, Trump, I think, is very much specifically this administration in tune to how financial markets are reacting and pricing in the current situation. And I think that's why we're seeing kind of a pullback on the escalation of the situation from the US's side at least. We talk about context a lot here, but, you know, I guess it's just ever more important every day context is important. So appreciate you highlighting those notes. How are you digesting this news like news of a conflict resolution, various factors in the geopolitical realm? How do you digest just that part of things? So, you know, when we look at it, of course, we're, you know, tech analysts, first and foremost. So we look at this and we look at a potential resolution on the table. And I think that's a massive relief to a prolonged conflict that would really pressure, you know, specifically players in Asia, like SK Heinex, like Samsung, like TSMC, especially when it comes to the helium. I think that was a core issue in terms of the, you know, supply chain disruption, given

6:14that Qatar really produces a third of the global helium supply. And that's using cooling wafers during etching. It's also used in, you know, fleshing out toxic residue. So Samsung and SK Heinex were the most exposed here, considering that South Korea imports something like 65% of its helium from Qatar. And then you have TSMC and UMC were also, you know, exposed, but just a lesser extent because they recycle their helium at rates of, you know, 60 to 70%, they still need to get replenished daily from imports, but, you know, they were exposed to a lesser extent. So to see this resolved, I think that really takes the weight off of what is a core in the semiconductor supply chain, which is, you know, TSMC, SK Heinex, Samsung, especially given, you know, the ballooning demand for chips and the ballooning demands for HBM memory, considering this, you know, huge AI infrastructure buildout that remains underway, although, you know, stocks aren't necessarily moving like it. And so that's, that's the first part that we take a look at. And then the second part is that, you know, there are two impacts from this.

7:18If we look at this, you know, direct and indirect impact. The first is, you know, what you feel at the pump. And then the second and the more scary one to us is how this trickles into, you know, higher costs for shipping, higher cost for transport, and overall, you know, worsening inflation. And that would be really catastrophic from markets. And it's, you know, already we've seen kind of the expectations we had for FedRate cuts this year, kind of windowed down from where they were at the beginning of the year. So I think overall, we're looking at a healthier kind of 2026 if we see an end to this sooner rather than later. I think that the fact that, you know, earlier today, we had a signal from the Iran side that there's a potential resolution on the table is a green flag that was missing for the past, you know, week when we got news of productive conversations, but nothing from the other side, the counterpart. So I think that things now are shaping up for, you know, towards a resolution on a more solid front because we have both sides confirming this is underway. And we also know that Trump has really taken a step back from the commitment to reopen

8:18the straight of her moods. And it seems that he's more using that as a leverage point against Europe being kind of taking a step back, removing his hands and saying that, you know, the U.S. is okay with its loyal supply, they're doing all right. And that, you know, Europe and the rest of the world can go deal with this. So I think that it's turned more political and global on that front. It's not isolated to just the region anymore. And I think that seeing Trump pull out of the war situation rather than escalating it is, I think it's the smartest thing to do. And I think the fact that we're seeing this kind of language come out of the administration really does point to the fact that it was potentially miscalculation going into this to begin with because, you know, if we have the straight of her moods blocked in a potential on the table for the Babel Mandib straight to be closed as well, then we're looking at, you know, a blockage of 30% of the global container shipments and 22% of the global oil supply. So that would really be catastrophic. So I think we're seeing green signals on this pulling back both for the tech world and for, you know, the macro backdrop in general.

9:20So in terms of updating, you know, just in terms of your last episode, which was February in the middle of February, and you were highlighting things that have come to pass, such as micron at that time was surging, and you were talking about needing to be cautious based on how much upside was left there and what was going to happen. You're also talking about some semi-players offering some strong upside. You've continuously talked about AMD and Broadcom and Nvidia. How would you update listeners, investors on those names in particular and those subsectors of the tech sector? I'm really happy to revisit those because a lot's happened. I know it's been a little over a month, but, you know, it's been definitely eventful, especially when it comes to memory. So we've had these memory players, micron, even storage guys, Cgate, Western Digital, really go on a rally, right? They've been the outperformers last quarter and this quarter as well.

10:21And about two weeks ago, now we had micron report, and there was a stellar report, you know, by all metrics, they did extremely well. And heading into that report, the stock had broken its resistance. It was trading in the 460s range, and we've been bullish on micron just for some context here. We've been bullish on micron since it was in the high 60s range. And so we've been bullish on micron. We've expected this kind of super cycle to happen, but what we were signaling on our last podcast, and we've been signaling to investors in our investing group, tech, Algerian, is that everything has a shelf life, and it's always important to remember that. So everything has a shelf life and micron and memory are no exception. So our concern for micron was that for the quarter reported in December and for the print that we got two weeks ago, the upside that we're seeing the financial outperformance has been driven not by HBM, but instead by non-AI price uplift. So by non-AI basically trading at higher prices because of the shortage.

11:22So when the market woke up to the reality that AI is memory bound and that we're going to need a lot more memory than we have supply for at the moment, Samsung, S.K. Heinex, and micron reallocated manufacturing capacity from non-AI into HBM. And so this caused a shortage on the non-AI front. And everyone knows where you have a shortage, you're going to have prices go up because the market supply is getting squeezed. And so we had a price of surge for DRAM, for NAND, we had prices surge across the board, and for DRAM it was specifically dramatic. We had prices surge in some, for some kits over 300%. And what we saw with Microsoft's report is that non-HBM, specifically this past report, but it highlighted to confirm our thesis that this upside is coming from non-AI rather than AI, is that non-HBM gross margins were actually higher than HBM gross margins. And so we know that AI comes with higher ASP. So that doesn't make sense in essence, or at least it doesn't make sense to continue

12:23sustainably. So that was the data point that we needed to really confirm our thesis that Microsoft performance, the company's well positioned, their business is great, but the outperformance that's driving this insane stock rally, is tied to the non-AI. And on that front, it's a cycle, and a cycle does have a shelf life. So we downgrade in micro-on post earnings two days ago, and it's down something like 26% sense. And our thesis really there is that they're going to lose that leverage on non-AI higher ASP. And we're going to see DRAM prices, spot prices, contract prices, really moderate into the year's end. So part of what ties into this is that on the non-AI front, even heading into this AI rally on the non-AI front, it's not like PC and smartphone, 10 units have been expanding substantially. So this isn't really a demand-created shortage, it's a supply-created shortage. And there's a huge difference between those two. Because if you don't have the demand, then when memory prices go up and we get warnings

13:25from guys like Dell or Lenovo or ASUS, we're going to see demand contract because prices have gotten so high. And even heard about higher memory costs from the big guys like Apple. So demand is contracting, smartphone and PC-TAM for the year from IDC have actually been revised down in terms of outlook at this, I think was last September when they first issued their smartphone-tAM outlook for 2026, they were expecting 1.2% growth. And then that outlook was revised down in December to a decline of 0.9%. And then again, IDC cut numbers more dramatically, now expecting smartphone-tAM to contract 12.9%, so by double-digit percentage. And then the same thing is accurate on the PC front, things aren't doing much better there as well. So the IDC's baseline outlook that was shared last November of when it comes to PC was for a 2.4% decline.

14:27Now that's been revised all the way down to 11.3% decline as of March and some of the industry players are actually pointing to even a steeper decline of 15% for the year. So if we're seeing PC and smartphone-tAM contracts, and this is something that was confirmed by Mike Ron's management on the earnings call two weeks ago, then that's all the more confirmation that this shortage is not going to drag out for too long because when a shortage happens, prices go up, everyone hoards memory because they want to get in on a good price. But eventually, if the demand doesn't come to take out that inventory, then the inventory just stockpiles. And when inventory stockpiles, you're going to, as a buyer, you're going to stop buying that memory. And so guys like Mike Ron aren't going to benefit from that higher ASP on non-AI. And if I have a bunch of inventory that I'm going to sell it to whatever demand is left, rather than stockpiling more and more for a market that isn't really showing robust demand. And if you see what I mean. When stocks move as much as they have in the past few days, few weeks with the war, and

15:32as you mentioned, on headline-driven news, how do you encourage subscribers and investors to take those movements, to strictly look at the long-term picture? So I think in a backdrop like this, and I'm going to circle back at the end of this just really quickly back to memory, just to address the terrible quote from Google because I think it's played a big role in the sell-off we've seen also since Mike Ron earnings. But on that no one specific, I think, with the volatility that we're seeing, I think we're seeing a very reactionary market, and it really goes back into that dynamic that we discussed earlier, which is that everyone wants to make sure to be positioned at the bottom in time for that relief rally. And this is really conditioning from last April and what we saw play out there. And so that's why we're seeing this kind of volatility, and from a fundamental standpoint, this kind of volatility trades the worst from the fundamentals. And so when it comes to this, this is when we think it's best time to take advantage of the pullback and build positions or at the positions in the stocks that have very

16:33strong fundamental basis. So for example, Marvela is a stock that we turned bullish on earlier this quarter, and that's doing exceptionally well today with the stake from Nvidia. And so on pullbacks like the ones we've seen over the past couple of weeks, that's the time to revisit the companies that are very well positioned, especially within tech that are not trading on their fundamentals, because sooner or later the market will catch up to the fundamentals, especially once it's done from all the current distractions that are weighing it down. And so that's, I think that's the best cure to fall more, and it's the best treatment for the current market. And then I feel the need to address this because it's been such a big part of the memory conversation. And I think that a lot of the time people get carried away with what TurboQuant really means for the memory space, at least on the immediate front. So we had Google's TurboQuant come out. It's not entirely new. In fact, they actually published an academic paper about this, I think it was last year.

17:36And then this year they came out and they published a blog post about it. And that was really the marketing that it needed for it to get picked up by the market and by investors. And the impact that this blog post had is that essentially it crashed memory in storage dates. And we saw this across the board last week. I crashed Sandisk, Micron, even storage guys like C.Gate, Western Digital. And the reaction was somewhat dramatic, but it's not all founded. And essentially what the Google release implies is that there's a reduced use for, there's a reduced, by six times, excuse me, there's a reduced use of memory for AI while carrying out LLM inferencing. So you need six times less memory if we were to put it briefly. We get into the nitty gritty of this from a mental perspective within the group, but just not to bore you with that now, the overall takeaway that the market got from this is that we actually don't need as much memory as we thought that we did.

18:39And while that makes sense in a picture-perfect world, the way that we're looking at this is not as revolutionary as much as it's as evolutionary. So this is, we're seeing AI evolve, we're still, we say this on and off again, we're still in the very early cycles of early innings of AI. And the turboquant is just further indicator of that, that there's more efficient and productive ways that we can use memory. And the CV cache is memory usage, it's been one of the biggest bottlenecks when it comes to LLM inferencing. And so Google is basically saying that they perhaps are in a solution to solve that problem, and that that could really bring down the cost of memory with the current shortage and really carry out much more productive AI models. That is true, but I think this is a stepping point going forward, so it's still something that needs to be built upon, so it's not an overnight kind of, I wouldn't say this is overnight why we are seeing DRAM spot prices come down.

19:39It's said, I think this is going to take longer to develop, and even once it's developed, then I don't think that it's going to reduce the overall need for memory. Instead, I think it makes more sense to think about this as reallocating that memory supply that we now are building for to scale out AI at a even greater scale. I don't want to get outside of tech, but there has been an overlap between energy and AI for quite some time, and energy is in the headlines for more oil-driven reasons these days, but what would you say about names slightly tangentially related to the tech sector, but not quite in the tech sector? When it comes to kind of resolving the current bottleneck that we have on energy? Yes, and in general, how investors should think about peripheral parts of the tech sector? Yeah, great question. I think energy is on everyone's mind now because of the massive kind of requirements we're seeing on the AI front, but also because of the current situation

20:43playing out with Iran and the US. I would say looking at energy through the lens of tech, through the lens of AI, I think the main thing that everyone should know is that the grid is really not built for the kind of energy requirements that we are looking at now or that we're trying to plan for going forward into 2027 and then into 2028. So there really is, I think that would be the most painful bottleneck that we have in the realm of AI today. We have a huge AI factories being built out, but we still don't have guarantees on the energy that's going to be able to kind of service these. And so when it comes to that, I think that's where the market is still trying to find its stable footing. I think there are, you know, north of 500 planned data center projects, totaling north of 120 gigawatts of capacity on the global pipeline. And this is impacting, you know, retail electricity prices. This is impacting data centers own power consumption this year and next year. So if we take out, you know, holistic look of where AI and energy

21:45requirements are headed, I think that's a major gap in the market now that everyone is actively trying to address. I think this is why we're seeing guys like Auckland, where Sam Oldman had been on the board a couple of years ago, really take off and be more center stage. But even names like that, which we actually downgraded, I think it was October of last year, even names like that are higher risk because they're still not, you know, a tangible fundamental basis for, you know, the recycling of, for example, nuclear energy, right? So I think there's a lot more answers, questions than answers that we have on that front at the moment. And so the way we're looking at it is that it's going to be based on capacity needs and it's going to be for each individual tier one company. I think that's how we're going to see it segmentize at the end of the day, especially after Trump's state of union address and kind of how he addressed the situation when it comes to the big players like Meta, like Microsoft, like Google, like Amazon needing to really take care of their own energy needs. Because once again, the grid was not built for this kind of

22:47situation and the Iran war and what's happening there only makes this kind of fear or, you know, this concern on that front worse. Speaking to the geopolitical factors and the supply chain of tech and all its permutations and various details that are involved with that, you know, when we're talking geopolitically, obviously this past month, it's mostly based around the Middle East and parts of Europe, but there's also the China conversation as it pertains to tech. There was, you know, the super micro conversation earlier this month. How are you thinking about, how are you continuing to think about, has anything changed about how you're thinking about that connection in tech? Well, I think the, you know, the super micro scandal was extremely interesting. It was, you know, I think it was the highest profile crackdown on AI chips muggling that we've gotten today. And this happened, you know, this didn't happen too long ago with everything

23:48happening. It feels like it's been a couple of weeks ago, but it was only on, I think March 20th, that everything really went down and we had the DOJ unseal an indictment charging, you know, a co-founder of super micro and others at the company for allegedly legally, basically selling billion dollars worth of advanced Nvidia chips to China. And I think that immediate reaction, or the immediate takeaway that we got from that is that there is a widening gap between the US and China that I think sometimes sell side research or, you know, the news tries to hush down, as if China is really catching up with Hawaii and the domestic solutions in that sense series. As if they're very, you know, close to catching up to the US, I know that's something that Jensen says a lot when talking about the US China chip wars. And I think that, you know, China's executing well, they are working on achieving that self-sufficiency. But what the smuggling scandal really comes to remind us is that the gap is very wide and with very urban coming out in Q3, it'll only widen further. And so the

24:51fact that we're seeing so much smuggling means there is that demand domestically in China. And the fact that Nvidia is still not in that market, while AMD's chips, their MI308 have been sold in that market, I think reaffirms that this whole entire situation is more, you know, geopolitical, it has more to do with singling out Nvidia as the top AIGPU manufacturer, rather than kind of saying that no to all US tech in general, or saying that we have the, you know, the technological capabilities that we wouldn't need to buy anything from the US, because we're either saying them buy from an AMD or we're seeing them, you know, be smuggled. And so that's the first takeaway, and it really loops into what our expectation was earlier this year, which is that one way or another Nvidia's advanced chips will make their way into China. And that was that, you know, that exists in a great area, so we didn't want to make any accusations or really expand on that more. But our sense was that one way or another of these chips will make their way there, because there is a widening performance gap, and China needs this to address their own domestic capabilities.

25:52And so the situation was super micro only really reaffirmed that. And I think from here we have, you know, two things that will happen simultaneously. I think we'll see more harsh expert restrictions from the US, from the DOJ specifically, after such a huge scandal was uncovered and it was happening at such a big scale. And at the same time, I think that we'll see movement on the conversation between Trump and China. And, you know, wrapping this into the broader geopolitical tensions happening at the moment, part of why I think that we should see a resolution to the situation in the Middle East sooner rather than later is because Trump has rebooked and scheduled his visit to China several times. And it was kind of implied at the beginning of the conflict that he would want to be visiting China once the war had been resolved. And so the fact that we've seen him stick to the date after pushing the visit, stick to the date of, I think it's mid-May, the 14th to the 16th around those dates, kind of reaffirms that we should see a resolution

26:53before then. And I think once we get that meeting, I'm also expecting that we're going to get updates on the chip war front and the situation there, especially that the Iran War has brought up the conversation of will China invade Taiwan, which has been this on and off going conversation really around TSMC as, you know, the golden shield for the island. And so with that, I think we could see Nvidia move into the region once again. But I think that'll, that'll something that's outside of Jensen's control very visibly now. And I think it has a lot more to do with the conversation between Trump and Xi that'll happen in May. And especially with the Vera Rubin coming in the second half of the year, once again, the specs on Vera Rubin, I think will only very dramatically widen that performance gap. So perhaps we see a new package offered from the US towards China, where it comes to selling less advanced chips to get the ball moving there since there's already smuggling happening. And I think Trump is a businessman first and foremost. And if there's any parts being sold, I think that the US definitely wants that 25% fee that they make off of it.

27:57What else would you add to this conversation? So I would say when it comes to tech, I think everyone is a bit spooked. You know, once again, heading into this, the markets were a bit spooked from tech, you know, the whole entire Mag 7 are in the negative. As of last, I check this morning, they're on the negative, you know, they probably need to reconsider a name change for 2026, considering, you know, how much these guys have gotten hammered down from meta to Microsoft, you know, especially those two have come down quite a bit. But what I would say taking, you know, a step back and looking at tech in general is that the market isn't as convinced by the narrative, or that I would say the easy money is gone, right? The easy money to make from tech, the easy money is off the table at the moment. And so now this is when, although the market is looking at it like that, this is when the fundamentals really come to shine through because the guys that will be standing in a year from now and the green and really doing well are the guys whose components are needed in this infrastructure build out, or the guys who, the industry transition will push

28:58them as their catalyst, right? So something that's not necessarily attached to end customer demand, but more attached to the planning and the build out that's happening at the moment. I think that's where investors specifically in tech should look to position themselves. And, you know, when it comes to fundamentals, when you're owning these kinds of names, you're more comfortable on red days because the panic isn't as bad because you're thinking, all right, but based on the technicals within the, you know, within the tech industry based on how the industry roadmap is going, these guys will come back because their components are needed or their power management content, for example, like monolithic powers going to grow. So for those guys, I think that's the appeal. And then the second thing I was going to say is that given the war situation, there's always, you know, in the market, there's always more opportunity, right? If you take a different angle, there's always more opportunity. So it's really important not to look at this market and try to find the same things that we were able to kind of the same trends that we were able to write easily in 2025. Again, the easy money's gone from here,

30:00I would say you got to, you know, change your perspective and be adaptable and versatile to the current market. And if we look at it from that angle, especially for, you know, shorter term investors, that's where I see appeal in the analog peer group. We're, we're have a working thesis on that front, which is that when we had the situation last April with the liberation day and the 90 day pause analog guys outperformed the following quarter because there was a lot of double ordering, there's a lot of pulling because people are worried that the supply disruption was going to only get worse. So they wanted to get ahead of the game. And so if we see a similar thing kind of happen in reaction to the oil disruption that we've got over the past month, then we could see these guys be somewhat of a safe haven for the short term in the current environment. Although, you know, from an end market perspective, they're still struggling, but this could be a way to kind of take another angle, look at the text base from there and think, all right, where is the double ordering going to happen? Where could there be potential upside on panic buying ahead of what's

31:00fear to be potentially a longer disrupt supply shock or this supply disruption? Sarah, do you have a motto that you live by, like personally or professionally? I mean, well, you put me on the spot with that. Yeah. I asked somebody that question last week, and I started thinking that I'm going to start asking people that I feel like might have a good answer to it. It's a good question. A motto that I live by is, hmm, let me give me take a minute to really think about this to get you the right response. Take a minute. This is kind of, it depends on how you interpret it, but I do tell myself this a lot, that the market isn't going anywhere in the sense that for me on a personal level, since, you know, you ask what's my motto personally, the market isn't going anywhere in the sense that we've seen so many dramatic crashes in this market. And of course, you don't have any two, you know, dramatic downturns that are carbon copies of one another, but we've, you know, the market's been through so much. And at the end of the day, there's always something else that's going to happen. It's always forward looking. Whatever is in the past is

32:01something to learn from, and then whatever you have going forward is going to have all the more experience to gain out of it. So the market's not going anywhere in the sense that at the end of the day, you can look at your screen all day, you can take a break and, you know, do something else. But at the end of the day, the market's still going to be there. And I think that's the beauty of the market. It's organized chaos. And to me, that's the most fascinating thing. No matter where, you know, no matter what happens, the market's always going to come back. There's going to be stocks that do well. There's going to be stocks that don't do well. And there's opportunity in it all. So I think that that's, that's what keeps me going on a daily basis that this is, you know, it's like a game. It's an equation to be solved. And the fundamentals make it all the more fun, because you have these cool tools to use along the way. Put the fun and fundamentals. Love it. I shouldn't use that one next time around. Yeah, some more stuff at Tech Contrarians. Oh, yeah, that sounds good. Appreciate this conversation. I always appreciate you coming on investing experts.

33:02Again, your investing group is Tech Contrarians on seeking alpha happy for you to share anything else with listeners, or if you would like to have the last word, it's yours. Yeah, I mean, I just want to let everyone know. Feel free to reach us at Tech Contrarians through to the DM. And we have one on one consultation calls behind our paywall, which has been, you know, the most popular feature so far. I'm glad to say. And so feel free to sign up, test, test out that feature, test out Tech Contrarians and let us know your thoughts. Just a reminder, anything you hear on this podcast should not be considered investment advice. This is for entertainment purposes only and you should seek advice from a licensed professional before investing. If you enjoyed the episode, leave a rating or review on your favorite podcasting app. And we'll see you soon with a new episode.