"The damage is already done"

0:00Hey everyone, it's Rachel Maddo and I'm here to tell you about the new MSNow membership. This is a brand new MSNow community experience. It's a place to find your people. You can connect with other MSNow fans, you can connect with me and all your favorite MSNow hosts. You can stream live TV and join real-time daily discussions. It gives you direct access and more clarity because when we're together, we are stronger. We are more resilient. Visit MS.Now slash membership to join us. Hi everyone. Hi everyone, it's 4 o'clock in New York. As of this afternoon, there is officially no going back. You could wave a magic wand. You could roll back Donald Trump's trade war for sure. You could end the tariff tit for Canada in an instant. But still, the damage has already been done to the very foundation of an historic and sacred alliance. Because as of today, as in right now, our Northern neighbors, retaliatory tariffs are in full

1:05effect. They applied about $20 billion in US imports. And while steel and aluminum are the big items that you'll hear about all the time, Americans consume, if not already, expect to pay more for some dairy products, some appliances, agricultural equipment, plastics, electronics, jackets, t-shirts, cosmetics, perfume, fishing rods, golf clubs, video game consoles, air conditioners, kitchenware. The list really does go on and on and on and on. Importantly, hockey gear, too, is impacted. Hockey gear like the kind that Donald Trump is wearing in this embarrassing, unhinged, stupid AI-generated photo he posted of himself on social media. If you can't see it, he is standing over the Canadian Prime Minister. There's a caption that says, quote, get up, governor. He beats him over and over and over again with the hockey stick. And again, beyond the bizarre unhinged AI slop, beyond the added strain that the trade

2:11war surely puts on the American family, the American consumer, precisely when they're calling out for relief economically. We also can't afford to ignore at this point the acidity, the toxicity, with which this now official trade war with Canada is eroding a century's old friendship and by extension, the soul of our nation. Because no matter how many times Donald Trump or the people in his administration attempt to downplay or discredit Canada's contributions and capability and commitment to our alliance into the world order as we know it, facts are a stubborn thing. In our country's most desperate hour, in the days and weeks following the September 11th terrorist attacks, Canada rushed to stand by our side, to our aid. I'm going to come time for action, not only did our Canadian neighbors send the best of their best, their young men and women, their troops to Afghanistan to fight and die alongside

3:12the best of our best, our men and women of the military. Canada stationed their troops in that country's south, where the fighting at the time was the most intense and lethal. Now while the families of those 158 Canadian heroes who fought and died in Afghanistan, along with the thousands injured, prepared to mark a very solemn anniversary, the 25th anniversary of the terrorist attack of 9-11 that precipitated their sacrifice, Donald Trump is right now an aggressor to their country, to their government, to Canada. And he added new detail to this conversation to what is most generously described as an evolving story, his recollections of his role, what he did on 9-11 and its aftermath. Two bits of context before we show you what he had to say. First Trump made these comments at an event that was designed to honor emergency workers who died that day on 9-11.

4:13Family members of the fallen were in the audience. And second, something the New York Times reported earlier, quote, there is a lot of dispute over Donald Trump's whereabouts in the aftermath of the 9-11 attacks, a Trump biographer and former police officials, have said that the president was not in a wave of people who traveled to ground zero and that he did not take a crew. Now, the Simford or Software is what he said earlier today. I want to just thank my people. I took a lot of my mom, I was building a big building in New York and I took the whole crew down there right after this happened and they were, they had no hesitation. Everybody went down with me. We went down as a big group of people. It wasn't too much we could do. I'll be honest, it was, it was raw and nobody seen anything like it ever. We had other buildings, United States steel building was creaking really creaking. Now we thought it was going to fall down, the truth is it creaked a lot, it creaked. It still creaks.

5:14But it never came down and I'll never forget two firemen. We thought it was coming down on top of us and two firemen. Big, strong guys. And I'm not the smallest guy in the world. They grabbed me under the arms, they got to get out of here and they literally lifted me up. This is not easy to do. I'm big. They lifted me up and they started running with me. I said, fellas, I can run myself. But they were amazing, but they thought it was coming down, it didn't come down. He lost me at I'm big. It's unclear though when or what, but seemingly pointedly vague and ambiguous story was meant to illustrate. But it is clear, it is that as of today, the United States is right now in an escalating trade war with Canada, a country that dropped everything to help the United States of America and the aftermath of that attack. And it is for that very reason that even if the tariffs and counter tariffs were to

6:16go away tomorrow, there is no going back in terms of what has transpired. That rupture is where we begin today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. Senior Economics reporter for CNBC, our friend Steve Leesman is here with me at the table. Editor-in-chief of Investopedia Caleb Silver is here also joining us, former director of the CIA, senior national security intelligence analyst John Brennan is here. Director Brennan, you don't have to weigh in on Trump's evolving story about where he was on 9-11 unless you want to. But I did want to ask you to put this optional voluntary intentional war and I don't throw around, I don't think you do either, the word war, to describe fused their fights. But Trump has started a trade war with, if not our best friend, one of our best allies ever. And he did it on purpose and he seems to relish it with these, I hate to insult children by calling the AI Slop Childish, but these childish videos of him beating Canadian leaders

7:23with hockey sticks. That's where we are with Canada as we near this 25th anniversary. Nicole, it's sad to say that we've come to a point when we cannot trust any of the words of a president of the United States, whether he's talking about Iran, he's talking about the US economy or he's talking about where he was on 9-11. And over the weekend, with all those social media tweets and commentary, it just demonstrated again just how foolish Donald Trump is appearing, not just to Americans, but also to the world. And when I think about what is happening with our good partners and neighbors Canada, I should point out that Canadians have sacrificed much alongside us. They have lost nearly thousands of individuals in wars and terrorist attacks over the years. I was very proud and honored to serve alongside my Canadian intelligence partners who would do everything possible and support of us.

8:25And now that we are turning on this ally, this ally who runs with us in terms of the skies over North America, trying to keep this continent safe. And so again, I'm just, I'm very proud of Prime Minister Karni, even though I'm not a Canadian citizen, standing up to Donald Trump. And I really do wish that more of the leaders of our allied nations would stand up to Trump like Prime Minister Karni is doing and demonstrating that there needs to be some resolve to try to push back against not just the foolishness of Donald Trump and the unseurious nature of what he's doing, but the damaging actions he's taking on the political, on the economic and on the security fronts and how much it is damaging, I think, all of our interests, not just the United States, but globally. Steve, sometimes we start with the economy and we are always grateful when you're able to join us. And then sometimes we start with national security and we're grateful when Director Brennan joins

9:26us. But this war with Canada is both, right? It is economically calamitous for large swaths of our economy and our public. And it is from a national security standpoint, it is unnecessary and dangerous on that front as well. I wonder if you could just give voice to the economic impact to America and Americans. Well, first of all, I would never be insulted when you start with Mr. Brennan. I am always thankful to listen to what he has to say. And I think your instinct is right in that the ultimate effect here could be on the national security front, given how important Canada is to our security over time and we are to theirs. But there is definitely an important economic angle. It begins at the states that border Canada. And Canada has set up its retaliatory tariffs to really hit those states and then sort of venturing over into the political field. States like Michigan, states like Maine, states that are in play this election are the places

10:29that Canada or Canada try to hit back. And I'm interested if Mr. Brennan has a thought on this, but somebody I talked to gave me this idea that no one is better at operationalizing our opponents leverage than Mr. Trump. There are things that people never thought they could do to us to have leverage, but Mr. Trump or Mr. President Trump has finds a way to make that happen. He found a way to operationalize the leverage of Iran in the state of Hormuz. Found a way to operationalize the leverage of China when it came to rear-earth. And now they found a way to operationalize whatever potential leverage that Canada has over the US political system in things that they would never, ever, even ever think of doing until this came along. Director Brennan, that's too juicy of a cliffhanger for me to not turn D.O. and ask you to respond. It makes a really good point. Look at the straight of Hormuz, as mentioned.

11:29But now I think countries are having to look at what they can do to push back against Trump and against the US actions. We're using all of our muscularity and the economic, political, military, geostrategic fronts. And so these countries, whether they're allies or adversaries, have to think about how they're going to protect their interests. And that's why I think Prime Minister Karni is doing exactly what he needs to do. Yes, it may be painful in the short term in terms of imposing some of these tariffs. And the Canadians are going to pay a bit of a price. But I think if more of them do this again, and to push back against Donald Trump, there's going to be less impact that Trump is going to have because our international environment are economy is interconnected. As is our geostrategic interests are interconnected. And I do think that now what Donald Trump is doing is making countries, whether it be China or South Korea or Canada or others, think about how they can push back in a meaningful and tangible way.

12:30Okay, let me show you how Prime Minister Karni responded today. With the resilient economy and the strongest fiscal position in the G7, we have everything we need to pivot and prosper. That pivot will come at a cost. There's always a cost to action. But it doesn't come close to the cost of standing still. This is about who we are as Canadians. It's about our livelihoods and the country we leave to our kids. It's about making Canada strong and it's about the compassion that makes us who we really are. The truth is adversity only makes us stronger. It always has. We are met Shino. What we're doing is working. We're just getting started. Let's keep going. This line about the cost of standing still just sort of reaches in and I think threatens

13:32to wake up this country where so many people, whether they're business leaders or Republicans or people who thought they could wait this out, have adopted that strategy of just standing still. Karni says it's not an option. And he's got the support of the Canadian people and he's got the support of the Canadian provinces. There are 10 of them that have to agree on this. Most of them support what he's doing because they don't want to get pushed around. Who gets impacted by this? Obviously the Canadian economy. But sort of you as consumers are already paying some $1,200 extra because of tariffs around the world. That number just went up. They're already paying an extra $1,000 because of higher energy prices. That work continues to go on. So these costs mount up over time. They hurt people on both sides of the border. But who really gets hurt? Consumers and small businesses that are in the middle of this war. I mean the other piece of it is the Wags that are peace. Like Trump has benefited so much from just sort of like the WTF of it all. But Americans woke up today and we are in a hot trade war with Canada. Yeah, and it's not going anywhere. And we're going to pay more for things like hockey sticks and perfume and dairy products.

14:33What's exempt is also interesting from this trade war. Crude oil, natural gas and critical materials. You've talked about this is an economic war but it's also a foreign policy strategic war. What they're leaving out of the terra for is also very interesting. I keep an eye on that. They may have new tariffs on those products sometime real soon. Steve, I've been with the right word is banging on you to explain to me what people are going to sort of join the side of standing up against autocracy and bullying and things that don't benefit the American people but seem to benefit Trump or serve his ego-driven battles. Just tell me what the conversations are that you're having privately with business leaders. Well, I mean, they think some of the stuff that the president is doing is bonkers but they're mostly ducking. I mean, there's not much spine out there in the US business community. They're all afraid and they're either all afraid and or they're all making money because the stock market has been doing well. You know, one of the things that we're monitoring here is what's happening with oil prices

15:37and that's a big deal. And some of the things Caleb was talking about could end up being a big deal and might finally get the goat of some business people out there. I want to just tell a very quick story about the economic connections between the US and Canada to show how bonkers this whole thing is. The only reason why we now have a deficit with Canada is because several years ago we started importing cheap Canadian oil or cheaper Canadian oil than the US. So guess what? We refine that oil in the US. Guess where we ship back the gas? Back to Canada where we make more money on it. So the whole idea of this idea of there's a trade deficit with Canada and somehow we're losing money. It doesn't make any sense and then you had the president on Friday essentially threatening the Fed if they didn't lower interest rates to stop trade with countries which we have a deficit. And that kind of took the cake but again Nicole I just don't hear it from leading US business

16:42people who are in charge here trying to just responding to this crazy economic stuff. I want to press you on that threat that came in a social media post with a lot of bizarre I want sort of letters from a serial killer capitalizations and punctuation. We'll try to build that and put it up on the screen and we'll follow up with you on that. Steve, no one's going anywhere. I also had for us is Trump struggles to articulate a strategy or bring an end to the war with Iran. Thanks to both a shortage of weapons and qualified military leaders. We'll look at what damage Pete Hegsess latest moves are doing to the men and women of the military and the Pentagon itself. Later in the broadcast with eight weeks to go until midterm election day Donald Trump is leaving his party struggling and focusing on anything other than what the American voter says he or she want from AI slot that we've been discussing. He was unpopular and expensive vanity projects in DC to picking a fight with the state of

17:47New Mexico. We'll talk to one of the smartest voices on this topic. Someone is listening to what people in this country really want. Our good friend Sarah Longwell who's out with a new book a little bit later quick break to the White House continues after just one minute don't go anywhere. Home to the Rachel Maddo show morning Joe the briefing with Jen Socky and more voices you know and trust MS now is your source for news opinion and the world learn more at MS dot now. Rebecca Steve Caleb and director Brennan Steve I'll read the highlights here Trump tweeted this on Friday about the jobs numbers great numbers breaking a list of us except mine in parentheses double triple in case you have oh and you haven't seen anything yet switching to all caps but I think what you were talking about are the threats so I'll pull those out.

18:49We should have the lowest rate of any country in the world like the old days quotes without the United States agreeing to allow them their big surpluses we could stop that immediately they no longer be considered financially switching back to all caps elite is an exclamation point all caps lower the rate are all stopped trading with countries with which we have a deficit. Do you think Trump understands and I'm guessing you don't because of the story you just told about Canadian oil a trade deficit. No he distinctly misunderstands it at least the way most economists do we get TVs and oil and we send them funny little pieces of green paper and that ends up being a reasonably good deal for most Americans. What's interesting about this and Nicole I just want to take my hat off to you was one thing you do every day is remind us how things used to be and I try not to forget that it used to be that presidents did not make comments on the Fed and then it became acceptable to make comments on the Fed but let's remember

19:52now we look at this this is another level this is threatening the Federal Reserve with essentially economic apocalypse if you don't lower the rate I will cut off trade with countries over deficit. The other thing that's really weird about this I can't think of another phrase for us I thought of this one it's a non-sequitur blackmail it's the effect of saying if you don't clean your room I will go down the street and kick a neighbor's cat because nothing has anything to do with anything here the Fed can't affect the terrorists and the people who are being terrified can't affect the Fed so the blackmail doesn't make any sense but it's well to remember that we're used to live in a world where presidents did not talk about the Fed and they certainly didn't threaten the Fed. Yeah I mean director Brennan I think this started with people like you right so Trump started by threatening people like you and he's been fighting with you and he's obsessed with you and Steve's talking about a normalization some of that came because the fancy companies and the very very very multi multi-millionaire people that run them one of business as usual and they still do

20:59and so some of the reason you have non-sequitur blackmail which is which I just I just love like I'm going to take your dinner and I'm going to you know I can't even do it anything as as artful as you just did on the fly but is because so much has been normalized and so if I had to explain to someone who never took in the news why carny matters and why I think right now he's one of the most important world leaders on the stage is because he's he's made a choice that like nobody else has made he's punching Trump back rhetorically with policy with strength and as Caleb said with the strength of his entire population behind him and also with a lot of smarts and a lot of integrity Nicole we're in the midst of a perfect storm we have a president Donald Trump who has deep ignorance about economic political military affairs you know internationally he has he's got has deep incompetence as far as a leader is concerned you know on a three-dimensional or five-dimensional international and domestic chess board I mean he's basically playing blackjack he has no concept of what is needed in order to pursue strategic policies

22:06and he is very much just doing it on an ad hoc basis and then also he has deep corruption which is he looks at everything from through a prism of how is it going to benefit him either personally financially or however and that's why I think Prime Minister carny is demonstrating that sometimes leaders have to take tough actions and yes it's important for them to do it and it's important for their citizenry to understand why they're doing it here in the United States are the more and more people are looking at what Donald Trump is doing and are incredulous in terms of what he's doing and I think increasingly people are not just going to be blaming Donald Trump they're going to be blaming the Republican party and Republican leadership because they're the ones that are allowing this to continue and most of them know better but they're continuing to allow Donald Trump to pursue these you know quite frankly incompetent and just you know this is very poorly thought through policies again whether be on the domestic front or the international front that's hurting us across the board yeah I mean if only the framers had designed a system where there were co-equal branches of government because I didn't mean to bury this but he also threatens the Supreme Court in here

23:11and only in this moment would that be like the second most important part of that weird post this is breaking through in terms of the political damage it will bring about for Republicans this is Brian Kilmead of all people over at Fox News and I'll add another thing is they're about to get hit with retaliatory strikes from us so they have to brace for that the one thing they did like China China retaliated against us immediately we hit them we went back and forth we landed that plane they never put our liquor back on their shelves so they took it off that hurt our guys the one thing this does do is hurt farmers they can't get fertilized right on the street or promos and now they're going to be paying more for fertilized from Canada so that's going to hurt that's going to hurt in the election yeah fertilizer prices are already up some 30 or 40% since the beginning of the Iran war not to mention other components coming from crude oil all the way down the barrel to ammonia and everything else so yeah these are just meeting higher prices for everyone and caught again in the middle are small businesses on both sides of the border but also this parallelization if you're not able to make decisions because you don't know where economic policy is going to be from day to day and that's troubling for Americans we're going to get higher inflation and what's the care for higher inflation

24:28higher inflation eventually people stop spending and who do they blame they blame companies and they blame the government and that could come back to hunt them why do you think Republicans are so untethered to the quams of the kind of businesses that you're talking about small business leaders in their own states I think it's fear nobody wants to be on the wrong side of the table here in power and proximity to power has what has sort of kept them in business and kept this train moving so far but maybe they're afraid to get out of that train even when it's at 30% when it's at 30% when it's at 30% I we got to see if people vote to begin with but if people are truthful about the fact that the economy is the most important thing let's see them actually take that to the voting polls yeah Steve I love your I'm going to transcribe and then keep it forever I just love that thank you for your contribution today Kayla thank you so much for being at the table director Brennan thank you for starting us off today after the break an extraordinary and unprecedented move taken by Pete Hygx at the Pentagon with his polygraph blitz says and what it's doing to our military and our national security bringing that story next

25:46to the world and more MS now live together in Texas September 26th get tickets today at ms.now slash together as Donald Trump's indifference to the welfare of the men and women of the military reveals itself in things like his comments about the USS Abraham Lincoln is that happens alongside the increasingly erratic utterances about the world with Iran there is a blockbuster piece of reporting about one of the men who was standing on the line inside the military New York Times also the other piece of reporting details Pete Hygx has single-minded attempts to get rid of forced our general Christopher Donne Hill and an interview with more than 40 people the Times details Hygx has more than 16 months long efforts to house this general general Donne Hill one of the military's youngest four star generals that's despite efforts to stop Hegseth from leading Republican senators with themselves had served in our own forces as well as from Pete Hegseth on Chief of Staff

26:48New York Times writes this about Donne Hill quote he had seen more combat in his 20 plus deployments than just about any officer in the US military a star in the clandestine world of special forces he had spent years in the shadows hunting terrorist leaders and then as the world and warfare changed he changed with it he had played a central role in the US military's efforts to help Ukraine hold off a much larger Russian force a job that inspired his vision for a new kind of combat that married dive bombing drones robotics and artificial intelligence now this fate lay in the hands of Mr. Hegseth the former Fox News host it amounts to one of the most consequential chapters in Mr. Hegseth campaign to drive out those he sees as out of step with his priorities a leadership purge at his critics is driven by ideology identity and suspicion of those with tenuous ties to former military leaders that he does not like and it shows the intensity of the behind the scenes battle to save one general

27:52in the end that lobbying by some of those closest to Hegseth wasn't enough it wasn't enough to save General Donne Hill described as a quote generational talent from that cable news host Pete Hegseth purges well General Donne Hill is the latest person to be subjected to Hegseth's witch hunt which has hollowed out our military and our military's leadership no one thinks it's going to be the last New York Times reports this US government investigators have taken the extraordinary step of subjecting roughly 50 members of the US military's joint staff to polygraph tests or released a journalist including about how the Iran war has created a shortage of crucial munitions that is according to officials briefed on the move the scope of the investigation is without parallel mass polygraph tests have never been administered to the top ranks of the US military in modern history quote I've never seen polygraphs employed this broadly or at this seniority level

28:52that was where Admiral Donald J. Gootter a retired top judge advocate general for the Navy from 2000 to 2002 in my experience it is unprecedented end quote I want to bring into our conversation New York Times reporter Greg Jaffe his byline is that on that incredible reporting about General Donne Hill also joining us retired US Army Brigadier General Steve Anderson Greg congratulations on this reporting about General Donne Hill it's it's really important and anyone that missed it should go back I read the whole thing because it ends with the line that he retired I think August 27th tell us more about this story yeah thanks for thanks for asking about it and thanks for reading it you know I think we were really drawn to writing about him because Hexeth has said so much of his focus is on wefality re-establishing the warrior ethos in the military you know fixing the culture a culture that he thought was broken and I think nobody better epitomizes

29:55what Hexeth said he wants in the military in general Donne Hill and so that led to a big question for us if if this is what Hexeth said he wants if General Donne Hill seems to epitomize it what happened here and so we spent good part of a couple months trying to figure it out what was it that could have tipped it the other way I mean Hexeth as is now on brand essentially fires him over an image he's the last he's literally the last soldier out of Afghanistan in what everyone on earth one would describe as heroic conduct in Afghanistan Hexeth as this sort of creature of I don't know Internet names and images that don't match the actual facts seems to hold the most heroic act against him is there more to it than that? You know I think it is a reflection I think of some some of Hexeth grievances and some of his insecurities perhaps you know some of his insecurities about his service he's forced out of when that forced out I think he's made the feel as though he has to leave the military

31:02because of some extremist tattoos or tattoos that were deemed to be extremist by the army at the time and so I think he bears a significant grudge against the service for his own service and I think feels as though the service that the army that he loved and fought for in Iraq and Afghanistan failed him and I think in some ways in a complicated way General Donne Hill is caught up in all of that all of his sort of past issues grievances frustrations with with the army and I think in some cases even more broadly with the country What is General Donne Hill's view about the current state of leadership at the Pentagon? You know I don't know that I can answer that question with confidence I will say that everybody's worried everybody's worried about these purges and not just because of the talent that we're losing although I think that that's a portion of it

32:03I mean I think headset is either fired or forced out or blocked the promotions of about 80 people by our account which is about 10% of the General Officer Corps the total number of generals and admirals and that's a really large number so I think there's a concern what about that loss of talent you're losing 10% of kind of the top of your pyramid and then the other concern is about the message it sends to everybody else I think people do start to worry about what they can say and what they can't say I think there's a real worry that the service becomes politicized that in some cases the people who survive this purge who make it up and continue to get promoted you know are they in some way marked so when the next administration comes around we'll see them as less than loyal you know we really prize our military for being a political warrant if not a political nonpartisan you know they're willing to work just as hard for the Republicans is the Democrats when they're in charge and I worry I think our senior leaders worry that that sort of ethos is being compromised

33:07General Anderson when people like General Donohue who I think was young to have four stars is that an informed assessment have parts of their resume that we don't know a lot about and we just say because it was clandestine they were in the special forces that usually means something massively specific if you are in the military or if you any sort of national security agency that benefits from the military and any of those kinds of missions will you talk about what that might have entailed? Well let me tell you Nicole the opt-pom which he was operating Chris Donohue was unbelievable he 20 deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan and special forces they work at an opt-pom and operating tempo that is second to none I had a good fortune to serve with General Stan McChrystal in Iraq and Chris is very similar to that

34:08a generational talent to say the least and to see what happened to him you know it just is driven fear and in low morale without the Pentagon Secretary Hagceth is conducting a war against general officers particularly those that have talent that threaten him and that happen to his insecurities which are many and we've made ourselves weaker because our enemies see this, our friends and allies see this and they know that the United States military is really really right now under the leadership of Secretary Hagceth I want to ask both of you to I want to put both of you on the spot and ask you if this purge, if this person could represent a breaking point but I have to sneak in a break before I do that don't go anywhere we'll all be right back The Vice President said yesterday that he would not describe the conflict with the Iran as a war

35:10but the U.S. resumed strikes for the first time in recent weeks can you explain to the American people if this is not a war what exactly is it? Well I'll tell you what a lot of people don't call it a war I call it a military conflict because it's it's more potatoes for us it's not a big thing I can understand what he's saying it's a military conflict but it's it's very intimate and I could see somebody not calling it a war But Trump has been dismissing as quote small potatoes and describing as quote intimate and saying is quote not a big thing looks increasingly like a growing and intractable war breaking in just the last few minutes from our colleague Priya Shreether a U.S. official has confirmed to MSNOW that American forces have struck multiple Iranian tankers tied to the Islamic Revolutionary Guard in response to more attempted missile attacks on the U.S. Navy worship We're back with Greg and General Anderson General Anderson I don't think the families the 18 families who lost loved ones serving in the war

36:15care about what people call it I do think there's an impacts other things that impact those families but what is your sense of these 20 stabilizing forces Greg's incredible reporting about the purges sweeping up a generational talent as well as Trump and Vance on like day 11 of debating the difference between a military conflict and a war that is very very hot very active and very much in danger or saliva of the men and women of the military I mean is patty absurd what he's saying you know small potatoes the only thing small potatoes is perhaps his thought process and how the war is being conducted I mean you know the 18 families that were killed you know the servicemen that were killed over there we've had 750 wounded we've probably damaged perhaps permanently 15 bases in the GCC region we spent well over $200 billion in expenditures and in munitions over there

37:15Americans have paid over $100 billion at the pump I mean and all for what because now we're in a forever war Iran has never been stronger we have done for them in a month what they couldn't have done for themselves in a hundred years they are now a global power they control the state of who moves it's not getting any better I mean right now gas is $4.15 a gallon it's going to go up to probably five because we're probably going to be talking about $120 per barrel of crude oil I mean I hope you filled your car in the coal over the weekend because it's going to get a lot worse but it's just it's just reprehensible what this man is doing to our military and the way that they are conducting this war which is totally incompetent Greg I want to come back to the purge the purge is ongoing with the exquisite and detailed reporting about General Donahue reveals is that the purge is destabilizing otherwise we wouldn't be reading about it

38:15what I want to understand is if there are any trip wires left in Congress if there is anything that Pete Higgseth could do that would trip a wire that might invite more scrutiny oversight or intervention I do think we're seeing more scrutiny intervention than we've seen in a while I look at Secretary Higgseth's choice for Chief of Staff the Army, Chris Leney right now that General Leney doesn't have the votes to get confirmed by the Senate to be the Chief of Staff of the Army, the top four start and that's a remarkable thing I mean I've watched this for 25 26 years usually those are 99 to 1 votes 100 to 0 votes and so for General Leney not to be able to get 51 votes to serve as Chief of Staff of the Army, I think in some ways that's more of a referendum on Secretary Higgseth that it is on General Leney it's I think senators including some Republican senators we're not happy with the way you're running the United States Army, we're not happy with the way you're running the Pentagon

39:19Greg what is your sense that as we near the Santaversary 25 years since Iraq and there's a whole generation that went in and served their country in the military and some in the FBI and some of the CIA and some of them have gone on to sort of cross that bridge into politics what is the purge and firing of someone like General Donahue who spent a lot of his years especially in those Clint Vestin and Special Forces capacities hunting down terrorists what does that signal at this moment? I think it starts to signal a breakdown of trust like if you if you ask General Anderson I think he would tell you there's nothing more important in the military than trust and so when you have firings without reason when you have mass polygraphs without a good explanation you're just eroding those bonds of trust between people and it's not easy to see those fizzers until they really start to crack and when they really start to crack we have a problem

40:21and I think those fizzers were really starting to seal We'll stand top of this Greg thank you for bringing us this incredible reporting Brigadier General Stephen Anderson thank you as always for bringing your expertise in your straight talk up next first it was the Gulf of America then Lake America today we're learning of South America the latest name changed we have to tell you about next by depicting Donald Trump as a thin skinned bully who is literally in bed with the devil South Park has been relentlessly hitting Donald Trump where it hurts with scenes like this one you want that news they're called prediction market apps controversial online betting that's found a loophole around normal gambling laws and of course the number one trending bet on the apps will president Trump and Satan's baby be a boy or a girl

41:24we're out in front of everybody and now the creators of South Park are jabbing Donald Trump before the show's latest season even starts next Wednesday tray parker and Matt Stone announced that they're changing the name of the show South Park to South America in a nod to Donald Trump's obsession with renaming places on a map and with tech companies all too quick willingness to capitulate and grovel and then the need to his weird and unpopular and bizarre whims when it comes to naming things the duo saying in the statement this quote inspired by the bravery and patriotism of apple and Google we are changing the name of South Park to South America we especially want to thank our parent company paramount a skydance capitulation and quote keep an eye on what South Park or South America says next when we come back helping make sense of where things stand with eight weeks to go until the all important midterm elections of November our girlfriend Sarah Longwell will be right here on set after a very short break

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