The Demon Whisperer, Part Two | Grave Talks CLASSIC

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Jones and thank you for supporting our program and keeping it on the air. So the exorcism gets done,

Larry turns around and he does it again. And Jamie's getting more uncomfortable. The show portrays

Jamie growling like a cat and all this. That never happens. Jamie sat there absolutely

theoristly stoic with his eyes darting around the room trying to find something to hurt

Father Larry. And John was right there to make sure it didn't happen and, you know, of course,

now I'm still kind of concerned because Jamie's bigger than John too. And I'm sitting there watching

this and it's going on and he has just got this cornered panic look on his face and he's going

through this second exorcism and towards the end of this, you actually saw a black shadow exit

out the back of Jamie's head and it kind of went up the wall, crawled around the wall towards

the ceiling, went out to the kitchen and we all watched it. We just watched this thing kind of leave.

It crawled through the walls, went out through the kitchen and John went out to the kitchen. I'm

still sitting there. John goes out to the kitchen and all of a sudden Jamie just kind of like turned,

looked around, started crying hysterically and apologizing. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so

sorry and he's just bawling and crying and he's just absolutely just sobbing. I'm so sorry. I'm so

sorry and he's just I'm thirsty. I'm thirsty. So John comes back with this picture of water.

Jamie downs the water, you know, more water, more water. It is just profusely apologizing.

And at this point, we're done. Jamie is kind of just mesmerized and Jamie goes with a child

psychologist at this point and him and the child psychologist take off and I'm riding with John

and of course now I don't understand why I can't be with Jamie and John's just like, you know,

he's not answering questions. It's let this, you know, let's just calm down right now at this point.

So we all met together a little bit, a little while later, you know, the child psychologist and Jamie

came in together and I came in with John and Jamie was still apologizing, just apologizing and

apologizing. I said, Jamie, what exactly happened? He said it was like I got my conscience back.

He said at that moment, it was like everything flooded in and I actually got my conscience back

and I understood finally of everything that I had done it had, you know, I just it just finally

came back to me. So literally the next day we got the car and we drove home. We'd never talked

about it again. We just moved down with our lives and I know that sounds so silly but it was

something that, you know, it was just comfortable for the time and it was maybe about six months later.

Jamie had asked to talk to John about what had happened and I called John up and I said,

what do you think? And he said, yeah. And Jamie did not ask the specific questions. He just was

writing a paper about possession and exorcisms and really didn't ask any questions.

So about maybe about three months after that is when New Dominion Pictures approached me about

doing an episode about this and I had done an episode with them before and, you know, they approached

me and said, you know, what do you feel about doing this? And I said, well, this is something I'd

like to talk to Jamie about, you know, he needs to come up with the right answer before I agreed to

this. And the only reason why I wanted to do it was because I wanted this to be a cautionary tale

to every ghost hunter out there that you don't bring your kids on a ghost hunt. That was the

reasoning why I wanted to do this. So I picked Jamie up from school and, you know, he's now 15 and

he's, you know, been about a year past, you know, this, this has all happened and I said, you know,

they kind of want to do an episode about this. What do you think? And he immediately said yes.

And I said, okay, tell me your reasonings and he said, people should know that there's dangers in

this. And I said, okay, I said, but you realize you're 15 years old, this is going to come out and

you know, the kids in school are probably going to just make your life miserable. He said, I don't care.

He said, I want people to know. So I said, okay. So we agreed and New Dominion had done some

phenomenal, they had a phenomenal researcher. Her name was Lisa Lissera and this woman spent,

I've got to say at least two months, very, very thoroughly researching everything that happened.

She talked to John, she talked to Jamie for hours, she talked to me for hours, she talked to

Father Larry, she, you know, this, this woman and she did it all separately and you know, she

would talk to me and I, you know, fill in my part and everything else. So just before we were ready

to film and they were right the episode, she asked both Jamie and I to get on the phone together.

And I was on one extension upstairs and Jamie was downstairs and he starts talking or she starts

bringing up these instances of things that had happened to Jamie that I never knew.

And I was so upset because he had held back so much about what had happened during this time.

You know, for example, when he fell through that plate glass window, he said what had happened was

is that he saw what looked like a black creature had crawled in front of him and he said,

he stopped because this creature was there and he said it was probably like the size of

like a baby bear cup and he said it was black and his friend was right there and

and this thing crawled in front of him and he stopped so quickly that he said he literally felt

like he had been pushed through this window and just before he got pushed through this window,

he had seen this woman in the reflection of this window and come to find out it was

the reflection of his great grandmother, my grandmother.

And she had died when he was a baby and described like jewelry that she wore on a very common

basis and I was, you know, and I said, well, what do you think about that? And he said,

I really felt that she kind of caught me as I was going through.

So I tracked down his friend and I was like, do tell me what happened that day and he described

the two. He said this black thing. He said it was broad daylight. It was like 330 in the afternoon.

He said this black thing just kind of slither crawled in front of us and we both stopped and we both

saw it. And, you know, he also talked about how that he had he had woke up and seen me hanging

from his bedroom in this nightgown that he had picked out that this nightgown that he had

gotten for me that he had picked out when he was a baby. And I never knew about that either and,

you know, all these things came out. All these these experiences that he was having that I had no

clue. So after we'd hung up the phone is really, you know, about a year afterward is the first time

that we've really honestly talked about what had happened. And I said, you know, what did you feel?

What was it like? And he said it wasn't like I felt it. He said it just kind of constantly

mumbled to me. He said it was like there was something always mumbling in my ear. And that was the

one thing like like his teachers talked about. The principal talked about that they were getting

complaints that Jamie was constantly mumbling all the time that he would get thrown out of his

classrooms for that. And I, you know, he said that's that he's I can't describe it any other way

was just this constant mumbling. So I'm trying to understand what's going on. So I picked up

the phone and called Zapis and I'm like, okay, what exactly are we talking about here? What was this?

You know, and he described it as an attachment that it really wasn't a possession. It was just

something that attached itself to him. And it took me quite a while to kind of understand what that meant.

And, you know, the episode came on. We watched it, you know, I invited a whole bunch of people

over. Jamie watched it. I watched this show. I, you know, I watched the show and I said, oh my God,

those poor people. You know, it was just so over dramatized, but the facts were real. It wasn't that

dramatic. It was just, you know, it was just it was what it was, you know, it just we kind of

moved on with our lives and everything else. And that came out when Jamie was about 16. And, you know,

once again, he got crucified in school. A substitute teacher put the episode on one time right in

the classroom. Jamie got up and he walked out and called me and said, come get me. You know,

principals losing his mind. And I said, look, I said, why is the substitute doing her job except

putting this on to humiliate my kid? You know what I'm saying? So, you know, poor Jamie really,

really did put up with some factory school. But, you know, once again, it was, it was worth it.

We got hate mail. You know, people from around the country just wrote us hate mail, wrote him hate

mail. You know, and I just never understood how people are really going to take anything into

context from a 40 minute TV shop. You know, I did so much happened. I mean, this was this was,

you know, a six month period here. This didn't happen within a couple weeks. This was a six month

period. But, you know, people, this is entertainment. They had to do what they had to do to get the story

out. And I agreed to it because I wanted to story out. And I just wanted people to understand,

you know, dudes, just think about it before you take your kids on a ghost hunt.

So I did get, I did get a lot of, not a lot, but I did get some email from from paranormal

investigators for, you know, saying I stopped taking my kids, which, which is the greatest thing in

the entire universe. That to me was that, you know, if it could be my cautionary tale and one person

to stop doing it. Yes. Thank you. Yeah. Prior to, you know, to, to the exercise, prior to the

exorcism itself, had you had any conversations with Jamie or, or, or anyone, you know, involving him

regarding what others suspected or you may have suspected had been going on with him that there

was in fact some sort of attachment. I know you were kind of on the fence there, even going into

the actual exorcism itself, but had that even been brought up in conversation ever of maybe there's

something going on here beyond you. Zafis was. Zafis, Zafis was the one that really was like, you know,

you need the space that, you know, because because John had known Jamie since he was a little boy.

You know, and, you know, John was, you know, John was a member of her family. You know, John wasn't just

John Zafis. He was, you know, John. And, you know, he understood and knew that this so much wasn't Jamie

and me. I'm trying to, you know, just explain it away. And John was the one that was constantly,

you know, he needs an exorcism and I kept fighting it. I kept fighting it. I kept fighting it.

You know, and to what? I'm talking to his psychologist at the same time because, you know,

she's a psychologist. I'm like, you know, this is awfully all of a sudden. Why all of a sudden,

is this kid acting out the way he is? So she's trying to figure it out on her point. You know,

but as far as it being paranormal, I really, the only person I talked to about it was John.

Sure. What was, I fought him tooth and nail on it. What was Jamie's take on it when John would

talk to him about this? And prior to the exorcism of, of making the suggestion of maybe something

needs to be done here, what was, what was Jamie's attitude towards that when John was,

he did not know. No, no, we kept that from Jamie. This was private conversations between John and I

because I honestly thought that if, if it found out that what we were, we were planning

that it was just going to ramp it up for Jamie and ramp it up for the household because

I, I, that was my gut on this. I just was like, you know what? If we acknowledge it,

it's just going to get worse. That, that was my, and even on a psychological viewpoint, you know,

like, you know, once again, I was still on a fence about it. And I'm like, well, if I turn around

and tell this 14 year old kid who's being a jerk, that I think it's paranormal, this kid's going

to ramp it up. Yeah. So, you know, so it was kind of like this double edged sort of, well,

if it's paranormal and I say something, it might ramp up. If it's Jamie being a jerk and being

a teenager, it might ramp itself up. So I figured that it was going to be best just to keep it secret.

And that's the reason why I don't played everything that this kid kept telling because I just

thought, if I give this kid just a little bit of rope on this, he is just going to take it and run.

Hmm. What was Jamie's counselor's takes on the idea of having an exorcism?

She did not know. I did not tell her. Okay. And that, I told no one. I did not tell anybody. I

didn't even tell my husband. I told my husband. I said, yep, John's filming a TV show. Jamie

and I are going to go down and watch. That's what I told him. Okay. Because I just, you know, once again,

it was that I think less people know the better. I think the better the better the outcomes going to be.

So I actually did not tell anybody. I only told my husband only when we started filming.

Just before the date we started filming that Jamie had an exorcism. I didn't tell him before that.

I didn't even tell like my my immediate family. They found out the day that the episode error.

Retres are looking at this this whole situation. When you go back to that cemetery investigation

that you brought him on, was is there anything that stands out to you today? Now, now having some time

here to think about it, that was that was different about that investigation that that stood out as,

you know, something beyond just other investigations that you had gone on or conducted in the past.

Well, it's interesting is is we had been to that cemetery the week before.

And we had not had time to review that evidence, you know, that evidence sat on everything. You know,

we didn't go through anything. But when we started reviewing the evidence after, you know, before

I really kind of realized what was Jamie is we got some very disturbing EVPs from that cemetery.

And I wish I would have listened to it beforehand because I never would have gone back.

We got one EVP of two men talking and one of them says,

um, yo bitch, get out the double practices here. And we just got all these negative,

this negative EVPs from the cemetery. And if I had known that we'd gotten this kind of negative EVPs,

I never would have gone back. And I never certainly would have taken Jamie. Sure.

When we know, you know, once again, hindsight. Of course. When he was basically under the control of

this or being or having the attachment with him, was he aware of his personality change of the

changes that were going on with him? Yeah. And and the way he explained it after the after the

exorcism, he said it was like I got my conscience back. He said during that time, he had no conscience.

That that literally he just there was never going to be a consequence for anything that he ever did.

So, you know, and that that he said it was like he said it was like somebody just went in and

removed that that ability, that that ability of the right or wrong decision. And he said it was just

after the second exorcism went through is when he said it was like all of a sudden it was boom,

it was it was there. And during the exorcism, what I found interesting is this is something we

didn't talk about for, you know, until a year later, but during the exorcism, he was actually

shown these false images, you know, because he started talking about like during the exorcism,

he was like, well, you know, he said, I I heard her. And I was like, what are you talking about?

He goes to the lady that was there, you know, he said, I heard her. I heard her and she was in a

corner and she was crying because I heard her so bad. And I was like, Jamie, that never happened.

He was like, yes, it did. I saw it. So, you know, it was interesting that it was just kind of this,

you know, this, this, he had a different reality as far as like I had a different reality.

It was just so different because, you know, it was something that we just didn't talk about.

And I wish I could say it was, you know, there was a reasoning behind it, but it just,

that's just kind of the way it went, you know. And I, I, you know, me, I'm all about, you know,

okay, let's even psychologically, if this was a placebo effect, okay, it worked. Jamie's back,

he feels like Jamie, you know, I feel comfortable around him now. It's all good. It's good.

All these years later now, after, after this took place, obviously, he's grown now. How does he

look back on this situation? He's 27 now. What's unfortunate is, is that he wanted to go to

a school in New York City. And when we went down to go visit the college, he kind of turned

to look at me and he said, I can't be here because it's so evil. And I said, what, the city,

he said, no, he said, no, it's not the city because, you know, I'm a New York city girl. We used to

go to New York City all the time. And he said, no, it's not the city. He said, it's just, it's evil.

I can't be here. So from the day that he had the exorcism, he started collecting religious icons.

This is something that he did. The first department that he ever got, I got a phone call at two

o'clock in the morning with him freaking out. He's, he's 19 at this point, his first department.

He's about an hour and an hour and a half away from me. He's freaking out because underneath

the carpet, he found a pentagram. And he's just freaking out. I mean, you know, this changed his

life in so many ways. You know, he, he just, just absolutely changed his viewpoint on everything.

He's 27 now and he still collects religious icons. You know, that's what he does. Sure.

You know, he, he, he, whatever, wherever he goes, if he finds a religious icon, it goes back.

And it's, it's stored in his, his, you know, he lives on his own now. I'm in Florida. He's in,

he's still in Syracuse, still collecting to this day. We didn't talk about it for a long

long time. Last year, we did have a conversation about it because, you know, it had been, you know,

it had been more than 10 years since it. And, you know, I kind of broached the subject with him that

I thought maybe we should write things down because after 10 years, you tend to forget things.

Sure. And we started comparing notes and everything else. And, you know, even now, he'll still

bring up certain things that I just never heard about. And, you know, we just had a conversation

last week, as a matter of fact, about, about the exorcism and everything else. And I said, you know,

I said, you know, here it is. Your later, we still haven't started writing. And he said, I don't

know how I feel about that. You know, I, I don't know if it's something he wants to relive. I just,

you know, I don't know if the time will come. I don't know if I ever will write it, you know,

what I'm saying? But, yeah, he, you know, at 27, I, I, I see that his life has changed completely

just because of the incidents, you know, like, he'll, he'll walk into places and, you know,

I'm talking like physical buildings, even at this age. And he'll turn around and walk out because

he just, he says it's like that it's there. Yeah. It's kind of like it's there, you know.

So, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's very interesting on his point, you know, in retrospect,

I don't know if I would have handled it any different. I don't know, you know, I, I, I was very

educated at that time, you know, I, I, you know, I, I'm not a stupid person. I get a lot of research,

you know, I, I did my things and I don't know if really if, if I would have changed it any

different, you know, because I, I think if, if I would have told him, hey, do it, I think you

need an exorcism, I think it just would have been so much worse for him. Yeah. So, you know,

so in hindsight, I don't know if there's anything I would change. I don't really know that,

you know, I got a lot of, I got a lot of blowback from the family for not sharing it with them,

but I just kind of felt that if the more people I bring in the fold that the worst it was going to

be. So I thought just I'd better keep this very tight until we get that solution for him.

That wraps up part two of our interview with Stacey Jones, a big thank you to her for joining us

today on the Grave Talks. Thank you for being a Gravekeeper supporting the program and keeping

it on the air. We cannot do it without you.

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