The Final Word with Sam Cook - A Change is Gonna Come

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We've learned in our time making this show that it's impossible to avoid investing in

some players' stories more than others.

For us, one of those has been Essex and England Seymour Sam Cook.

When he was picked for his test of boo last year, it was a triumph for everyone who believes

that for ever hitting the same spot while nipping it around at a decent clip without blowing

up the speed gun is worthy.

It's what this guy's been doing from the moment he arrived in the professional game

as a teenager, doing it in all conditions for his county.

He banged the door down for that test cap.

As it turned out, his Trent Bridge audition wasn't enough to play a starring role through

the remainder of 2025, but as you'll hear in this conversation, he's determined to hit

the ground running to give himself every chance of this being the year.

He's determined to hit the ground running to give himself every chance of this being

his year when the season begins on Good Friday.

I'm getting to our chat today, a reminder that you can email info at finalwordcricket.com

to get yourself in the running.

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All right, today, though, it's a conversation that I held a few days ago with Sam Cook

from Essex, he's a terrific fellow, a very skillful cricketer, and one that we wish all

the best for in 2026.

All right, as promised in the intro, down the screen, from me, in his home county of Essex

is a man with nearly 450 professional wickets, 328 of them, with the Red Bull at the measly

average of 20.6, but he's a great deal more than that.

He's Essex superstar, Sam Cook, England, TestCat, 709, saying last year, as well.

Welcome to the show.

Yeah, thanks so much for having me on, yeah, it's been a bit of a time coming, trying

to get on, so I'm really, really looking forward to it.

Yeah, good stuff.

So, I mean, let's place you here, right?

So, it's what we're recording on the 24th of March, so we're about a week and a bit

out from the start of your season.

You've got Hampshire away week one.

I mean, if you had those horrible March friendly, so you've had to play in the last couple

of weeks, or is it a bit more hospitable away from home?

Yeah, I think as you probably tell by my sunburn for it, that we've just been out in

Cape Town for a couple of weeks for pre-season tour, which has always been a good time of

year to reconnect the boys, get everyone back together and try to ward off those pre-season

friendly as long as possible, but yeah, we have got one on Friday against Yorkshire,

so that'd be a good prep, but yeah, I don't think the cauldron are much looking forward

to getting out there.

I think he's been to be like nine degrees or something, real feel of four.

So I'll let him off if they drop a few catches in the drivers for the first couple of days

as long as they're ready for Hampshire.

Yeah, it feels like we have this lovely run of weather in the UK at the start of every

March before anyone gets outside and once you're outside, it's bubble hats and so on.

Speaking of South Africans, just to be clear, if Essex got access to, we are Molda

and Simon Harmer, straight away, is that how it works with your two overseas?

What do you have to wait for them to come online?

Yeah, I think so.

I mean, Harmer's been on pre-season with us, so he's ready to go, and I'm not 100% sure

to be honest, but I think he should be ready and ready to go from what I'm led to believe.

So yeah, I'm not 100% sure, but yeah, Harmer's been with us for the last few weeks, so

yeah, he's ready, ready to go, but yeah, sure, fingers crossed, but I'd both of them ready

for that first game.

It must be so tantalising for that generation of players, thinking him, Tom Wesley,

arranging others yourself, Jamie Porter, who've enjoyed substantial team success sort of

five or six years ago, now really wasn't it, when you had that run in Red Bull Cricket,

of course, winning the blast just before the pandemic, as well, and desperately wanting

to get back there and have a big presence at the business end of competition, acknowledging

that Essex ended up sort of mid-table in the championship last year.

Yeah, for sure, I mean, it feels like we've had a little bit of a sort of rebuild

couple of years, it's about like, I think last year we were probably lacking a bit of depth

with obviously a couple of injuries and call-ups and whatnot. I think we were probably a fraction

thin on the squad, and if you think about the sort of senior players we've lost in the last

sort of four or five years, you run to the Scottish, you ravise, obviously, Chef as well,

like we've lost some big experienced players there, so we've still got a really strong core of

players, like you say, that knows what it takes to win championships, and I think the way we've

recruited this winter with Zürman, Mitch Colleen, bolstering the bowling attack, I think we're in a

much stronger position than we were this time last year to really sort of push where we want to be,

because our sort of minimum expectations is to try and win a championship, and that's what we're

we're setting out to do at the start of every year, so it feels like we're in a strong position,

and yeah, like you say, we've obviously still got a really strong core of players that know what

it's like to win championships and know what it takes, so that's what we're fully focused on

doing coming into the next few, few months. In many respects, an unusual winter for you, you

look back, you actually have implied an awful lot of cricket right as far as, you know, since the end

of last season, through to a few weeks ago, when you were, much as it was with Ace of Tribe,

who we had on last week, add in Abu Dhabi when, well, when it all kicked off to say the very

least, we got Ace's interpretation of what happened when it all started happening for him,

what was it like for you when having that tour come to such an abrupt end?

Yeah, I mean, it was nothing like nothing I've ever experienced before, obviously,

from a sort of more sort of widespread, so a human level of seeing credibly, it's quite powerful

experience, actually, obviously seeing sort of small chunk of what some people have to go through

sort of day in day out, sort of really puts cricket in perspective, but from a cricket point of

view as well, it's obviously disappointing the way that that trip ended as it would have been

sort of a great opportunity to play a good chunk of cricket coming in, but I think one thing it

did do as I'm sure Ace has spoke about last week is sort of brought a group together really quickly,

and really really mostly, and yeah, it was sort of, it was a lot of people on that trip that

had spent a lot of time within the past, but sort of, I mean, being put in that situation to

sort of have to help each other out in a completely different way than you would through

being in a cricket team, but yeah, the staff were unbelievable, shout out to Cheeksy,

our security guy was amazing, and I think he's everyone's best mate, but he was a real champion

across that trip, so yeah, he's a top bloke, and yeah, he really helped us through.

Interesting that you're sort of first reflection there is putting yourself in the shoes of people

who lead lives that are always under this type of risk, is that sort of reflective of your

personality? Do you think that you are the type of person who can see the bigger picture and

identify situations broader than only yourself, because often a lot of the time in professional

sport by necessity, you've got to think about yourself right, like it's that kind of world,

where you've got a limited amount of time to do what you do, but even in that answer there,

you're referring to other people, do you think that's a positive attribute of you as a human being?

Yeah, I think definitely, I think it comes probably with age and experience a little bit in the game,

I think when you first come into the game and like a young professional, any sort of bad day you

have can feel like the end of the world you know what I mean, and I think it's only as you get older

and probably experience more things in life generally, you realise that cricket is as much as we

love it, and it's our livelihood, and it's our life that there are more important things as well,

which I think actually frees your opposite player as well, a lot of the time takes a bit of pressure

off and allows you to really excel and perform, I think it's about finding a fine balance,

though obviously between being relaxed and putting things in perspective, but there's still

that inner drive and that inner motivation and that tenacity of being a professional sportsman

that gets you where you are and you need that, so I think it's a fine balance, but I think as I've

got older I've probably found it easier to put things in perspective on those days where things

don't quite go as well and you're being launched out of the park in a T20 and there's 30,000

people laughing at you, I think it's a good time to put it in perspective, but equally on those

days where things go well you do need to celebrate them and enjoy them as well, so it's finding the

right balance of the two I think. That's vaguely, I suppose, in line with what we hear from

we've Brendan McCullum in the England camp, a lot wanting to, the most positive interpretation

I suppose is that, that he wants players to feel freedom, but he doesn't want them to feel as though

the consequences of failure are such that it'll destroy what got them there in the first place,

so I do sort of subscribe to that philosophy of mentality, having been involved in those England

squads for a while now. Yeah, definitely, like 100%, I think one thing they've done incredibly

well in that environment, like you say, is take the, I've seen what it was like before with the

constant sort of looking over your shoulder when guys in the past were playing for England and

in any team you want that healthy competition, but you need guys to feel comfortable to allow

to perform, it's like anything taking the pressure off is, in cricket with such individualised

skills, I think you need to, you need to feel relaxed in and that relaxed intensity to be allowed

to perform, and it's something that I definitely subscribe to before being in and around those squads,

but having sort of a small glimpse into what those guys go through performing at that top end,

I think it's even more important at that top level, so yeah, definitely something that I

subscribe to and really sort of appreciate how they've managed to install that into that squad.

Because it is so brutal, isn't it? I mean, the type of industry you're in, there are three,

sometimes four guys that get to do the job you want to do, bowling in a test match for England,

and then there are the scores of them sitting underneath it who aspire to it, and it means that,

I mean, I don't know how you interpreted the winter, you weren't there, I mean, you weren't in the

Asia squad, you weren't in the lion squad either who are effectively a shadow squad. How did you

interpret that when you were at home, presumably, you know, dead of night in the winter, very cold

over here and so on when all of the actions 10,000 miles away from where you actually wanted to be?

Yeah, I mean, I think for me, like obviously, of being a freshman sportsman, you deal with

disappointments and ups and downs, and again, I think it's sort of the older you get, you deal with

it better, and I think I dealt with it pretty well, to be honest, I mean, I appreciate selection,

subjective, obviously, I'd love to have been involved in that, that Asia squad, but

ultimately I didn't do enough to warrant being picked to go, so rather than sort of looking out

as I took myself away and picked through how I think I can get better, and that's naturally how I

deal with things as a professional is, right, okay, what is that next step? Obviously, for last

summer, getting the opportunity to play for England was something that had been striving towards

for a long time, but I think it's quite easy then once you sort of get that opportunity to just

sort of rest on that and then retract whereas I've sort of gone away and for me, big focus this

winter was just getting back in the gym for a good sustained period of time and trying to really get

the fitness levels up again because you sort of on that merry-go-round, playing cricket for

the last sort of three, four years, relentlessly sort of 12 months of the year effectively, and

as well as you want to, you can tick along with your gym and your fitness and I don't think I've

ever been unfit, I think you naturally strengthen tends to drop without having that sort of one winter

off, so I've actually felt much better place going into this summer for that, but in terms of

obviously wanting to be involved in an ashes, that's what you dream of out as a kid and obviously

being in and around that group, but I just wanted everyone to do really well and obviously seeing it

from some some good mates now in that squad obviously, I just wanted them to do well rather than

any sort of ill feelings and that's not just the sort of podcast answer, do you know what I mean?

It is a genuine truth, so yeah, I mean it was obviously disappointing not to be involved, but yeah,

I think for me, I've always just been a, so you've just got to get on with it, haven't you,

like if you take those sort of disappointments the heart too much and let it consume you,

then you're not, you've not been able to get to that level, I think from a sort of mental point of

you, so yeah, for me going, it was going away, okay, but disappointing, but what can I do to get

myself back in there and looking sort of forward to this summer? Did you watch, did you stay up

through the night and watch, or did you sort of detach from the actual series once it was up

I didn't stay up and watch, no, I think I've covered late nights over Christmas sort of

the years and stuff, I caught a little bit of it, but no, I was trying, I tried actively to sort

of, I was focusing very much on sort of my winter training and the fitness block with Essex at

that time, so late nights staying up, which in the cricket wasn't really plausible for the early

start, but yeah, I mean, of course I kept an eye on it, I watched the highlights and kept across

it and yeah, sort of the early mornings getting up and caught sort of the back end of day's play,

but yeah, I wasn't staying up quite like I did when I was, when I was younger and sort of yeah,

like that sort of super fan, I feel, I had to be honest, I can't stay up beyond about 10 o'clock

anyway, so yeah, it wasn't really right for my personality. Funny old 2025 and you know,

putting it all into context, 22 through 24, you are virtually untouchable in the top division,

averaging mid-teens, the better part of 150 wickets across the seasons, jigs bowl,

cookabarabal, start of the season, middle of the season on the flatties,

ended the season, like there was no facet of the Red Bull game that wasn't working for you,

which of course opened up that opportunity to become a test player at the very start of 2025,

remembering now that, like that was the first day of the international summer when you received

your blue test cap, picked up a wicket on that, you know, in that first

dealings that you're bold in, nice and early on, Ben Curran, one of your teammates, brothers,

quirky as that is in terms of the England set up with the Curran's, but yeah, I mean,

how do you now look back on that week? So I know that some players who have that experience going

into the, the test culture and actually find it hard to remember much of what happened at all,

and others remember every moment of it and kind of relive it a little bit and watch it back

and that type of thing. So how do you sit back and reflect on that the better part of a year later?

Yeah, I think it's sort of, it's a weird one really, because I mean, it was the best way

my life, like the experience was unbelievable. I mean, all the friends and family there,

that is literally what all the work that you've put in to go through over a number of

number of years and sort of that journey that you've been on, that's what it's for. And for me,

that was that was the one bit about the week that I was actually sad about was that I wasn't

sad with all my friends and family in the crowd because I had such a wicked time. That was the only

like downside in my head, but from like an occasion point of view, I was the way I look back on it

I actually was weirdly sort of impressed with how normal it felt and like I didn't feel at all

overruled by the occasion. I felt very calm, very relaxed going into it and felt like I deserved

to be there and I didn't feel major sort of external pressure with the extra noise in that and

I think a lot of that comes from exposure to the franchise world and the 100 and putting young

players in that position before definitely stood me in better stead going into it. I think the

main pressure that I felt was sort of that personal just wanting to perform, I felt like I needed

to perform, you know what I mean, and put in a big sort of big hall of wickets to almost prove that

that I was good enough to be there. So of course I look back on it and I'd love to have got more

wickets than I did I mean to get one. I feel like if I if I go back and watch that first spell

and that's one thing about said to me, look you could have had three or four wickets in your first

spell in test cricket, easily a couple of nicks through the slips inside edges general I mean

another, I know I think that is the good part of being a bit older coming into it is that I've

rationalised it a lot better. I've had games where I've bold brilliantly and got none for

other games or I've bold averagedly by my standards and I've got five and you know what I mean

like I do get that is how cricket goes and I think on another day that that first spell goes a bit

better and sort of your view on how the game went is is is a lot sort of brighter than one for

70 or 100 or whatever it was. So from an individual point of view yeah probably it's sort of mixed

emotions with it but I'm incredibly proud of it and yes we won the test by an innings in

yeah sort of three days so yeah like to be involved in that it's it's a win in you

as being probably a bit older and more mature you're looking at it as sort of the bigger picture yard

so you like to have done better personally but yeah to be involved in a test match for your country

and yeah so it's sort of it's a weird mix of emotions from that week I think how I look back on it.

Yeah it's sort of editorialising from our perspective because you know we followed that

followed your story so keen for you to get an opportunity getting that that three days as a test

cricketer then on a post you stamp when the game was played at fast forward speed run rate wise and

and things not quite clicking as far as the luck component as well and yet mentioned before

that have brutal and volatile test cricket as you're in the team one week you're out of the squad

before you know it and and so it proves I mean do you think that had an effect on the season that

followed to a certain degree that you know you start off and you would have had dreams undoubtedly

of what one test could have morphed into in the England summer having bold so well for the England

line to the cook of our ball in Australia in your previous opportunity it felt like all roads for

you led towards at a minimum a national squad so how did you acknowledging that you know you're

saying that you're a bit older than than a kid coming through 28 years of age you've got your

bearings in the professional game but still do you think that that had some effect on the months

that followed that that one week those three days didn't grow into what would have otherwise

been a terrific summer for you yeah I think if looking back looking back at the season as a whole

it it felt quite disjointed for me in a way that I probably ended up playing less cricket in a

summer than I'd ever played before excluding Kobe and she spoke to me and Keesie spoke about this

when we were away with the lines recently and that seed being in the squads throughout the summer

but not playing you do a lot of traveling back and forth in a couple of days of cricket here and a

day of cricket there missing games and then you're into T20 and again just sort of if I look back

on how I don't know what the numbers are but I feel like I didn't play much cricket at all so it

felt quite disjointed so I think I think the games that I've played as well if I'd look at

the early season I was pretty happy it was just started okay with the ball and then through the

middle again it does feel like a bit of a blur like I can't think like the games you know a lot

with a cooker borrub balls and pretty dry flat surfaces so again statistically probably didn't get

the returns that I had previously but still felt like I was bowling pretty well in those in those

circumstances sort of driving back from sort of headingly at getting home at sort of 11 o'clock

to start after doing drinks for two days to then play the next day it's obviously not the best

prep for you going into a championship game but trying to get some cricket in and needing to do

that and see wanting to to still be with the England squad as well so it was quite a tough summer

and then to pick up sort of broken thumb at the back end of the 100 and miss the last month

probably wasn't very timing as well around sort of the Ashley squad selection so yeah bit disjointed

a bit bitty so it's I think it's one of those seasons where yeah just with sort of how it

panned out I didn't feel like I haven't really gotten to a rhythm of playing where I'm used to

playing sort of relentlessly all through the summer so yeah it was a it was a strange one

but yeah in terms of actual life probably look at the numbers yeah not what I'd registered before

but yeah again it was a very different summer in terms of the volume of cricket I've played

because it was in so low to what I'm used to

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my day kicks off of the refreshing socio synergy drink then straight to the gym

pick up back onto meal prep time for my fire session shift one more Celsius gotta keep the lights on

when the three alarm hits i'm ready Celsius live fit go grab a cold refreshing Celsius at your local

retailer or locate now at celsius dot com are you just sort of person who is really engaged

in the game more generally like a badger or you someone who is able to sort of have

a variety of interest outside of the game so when you know you're not having a blistering season

that you can you know turn your attention elsewhere and and kind of get outside of that that cricket

bubble off the cricket conveyor belt yeah definitely i think yeah i mean to something that probably

went before i got picked for him and there was quite a lot of people suggesting that i didn't like

golf but i do love golf so that's my big big one away from cricket a lot of golf not particularly

well but yeah i do do love my golf so do a lot of that to to switch off away from cricket but

yeah i think i'm the older i've got the less i've sort of badgared as you know i mean that

thing when sort of first come into it you're watching every sort of every wicket on the

on the stream and all that sort of stuff and really dialing in and and in and around cricket

i am still very much very much on it you know what i mean i think i've learned as i've got older

you need to balance that switch off like leave cricket out the ground that's where you do your

work do your homework do your sort of badgering and and then when it's time to come home you

switch off and and don't and don't watch it i mean don't get me wrong if england or on the telly or

t20s on or something but you'll be on in the background but i won't be sitting there watching

ball by ball by ball because i do you know and you believe that you need to you need to switch off

especially in a county summer where there's so much cricket you need to get away from it so

yeah i've got a few a few ways of doing that especially the golf i remember many years ago probably

might have been like bob willis trophy days i can't remember exactly but there was a line in a

story somewhere that you're a DJ um or something like that and it's you know like when you're on

commentary as we often are in county cricket we've got seven hours to fill and if there's one

interesting journal about someone not to do with cricket it'll come up 20 times across a season

filled that was the that was the go with you back then does that remain part of your life are you

DJing at any moment it's still there i've still got my decks upstairs um i was actually

chatting to Nathan Gilchrist the other day because we're in play the room cake time he's obviously

big into his DJing and somebody who's spoken about um i don't do it as much as i used to i mean

university days what a skill to have so that was yeah that was um very handy back then i still

like my donkey and i still do it from time to time but i'm probably doing it less now than

than i used to more so because the missus isn't happy with me having all the wires out and stuff

for the aesthetic and all that so i have to keep it tidy tucked away so by the time i've said it all

up i'm happy to to take it down so um no i still do it from time to time but yeah it's it's not

something i've done publicly for a for a long time so yeah still the skills are still there but

yeah probably not sharp as they they used to be you can kind of get it out in about 25 years time

when you're ready for a mid-life crisis you can kind of come back to the the i'm sort of feeling

like that's maybe a my story in the future as well change because that would be 21st or something

that we like who's the old man spinning around playing loads of rubbish yeah i'll maybe do that

just just save it for when i'm like 50 60 or something so it's like i'll remember that

would be that i'll version of vinyl back then yeah yeah so obviously champion at the bit

obviously how could you not be but i mean i i'm sort of interested in his feedback loop thing

so Liam Livingston i'm not expecting you to you know come up and make national headlines right

now or anything but Liam Livingston last week obviously made a decision to make national headlines

about the feedback down the chain up and down the chain between guys who've been discarded

in his case and aspiration are trying to i guess balance those two things often

keysy reportedly basically saying he didn't have time to deal with him through the middle of

last season how did you find that feedback with you like were you getting

did you feel we satisfied with how that all played out from the moment you were playing test

cricket in May to kind of falling off the radar a little bit by the end of the season did you

feel like that that was handled as well as it could have been as it related to you yeah i think

what my experience of it was was probably pretty different to that i had pretty clear coms

with variety and throughout sort of finishing sort of obviously that lords test was the last

test i was in the squad and they just said to me that we want you to play some cricket and

you're probably unlikely to play ultrafford so go get away play a play a couple of games of cricket

and yeah again it was very it was very clear obviously we had a massive squad at that point i think

it was sort of 16-17 in the squad at lords and yeah look i get it like selection if you're not in

the team i'd wanted to go and play some cricket as well so it was very clear and then sort of

in and around the actually selection again like righty rang me up explain the decision and again

yet the coms have been very clear so okay again spoken to him throughout the sort of winter i

know is obviously moving on from that role now but again even with regards to the lines taught

so obviously it was looking forward to this summer and i felt like it was more of an option

in England so getting me ready the best i can for this for this summer so yeah i've had pretty clear

communication throughout and yeah and yeah i can't really sort of speak ill of the treatment i've

received and yeah i've been i feel like i know where i stand and sort of where they see me so yeah i

can't i can't sort of empathise with those views that i've seen it's quite a different to to what

of sort of livid spoke about last week yeah yeah and look at that they've invested so much and you

think about it in the abstract you've played so much lines cricket you've been in and around

you're not over the hill far from it you're not on your way i mean you're right in the sweet spot

a seamer who's 28 29 as you'll be through this season this is the bit when you're kind of meant to be

getting towards your peak if not at your peak Chris wokes of course is since retired since last summer

Jimmy the year before that there is kind of a hole there for a bowl up who do who does what you do

but then on the other hand i wonder how that how that is something you interpret like

you know this perception that you don't blow up the speed radar the idea that you hit the

top of off all day but is that enough is it enough to hit the top of off all day and find the

outside edge like do you sort of grapple with that when it comes to the idea that you were being

almost tight cast as a certain thing at the stage of your career yeah i mean i still like you say

more broadly firmly believe that i've still got a role to play and still believe that i'm good

enough to play for him and i think and would argue obviously based on that one game against

Zimbabwe where they'd feel like you'd have to take ten for to prove you good enough to know i don't

mean they take that it's quite a blink of view but i still believe that i've got a skill set

and i'm good enough to to perform at that level i mean i don't think i gave the best account

of what i can do in that one game but i'm also experienced enough to understand that you might not

like i said earlier i think you have good games in bad games or middle games games where it goes

away and times where it doesn't and and again going some sort of in terms of that pigeon hole i know

i've always i'm never going to ball 90 mile an hour that's not what i'm going to do but i've

backed up but how quick but how quick do you ball like if you were if you were to i mean because

this is the thing right what would be your it's hard when you're trying to measure it based on

different speed guns balance of probability if you're balling in the middle of a spell right now

what would you be hitting more often than not again i think that's a hot it's it changes sort of

i'd like to think i'm hitting low 80s probably low 90s consistently i can i mean i think

i looked at some of sort of the speed data with with the bowling coaches sort of this winter from

that that test match and i think that's one thing i did experience in that in that test was

i i think i was averaging sort of 83 82 83 somewhere around that for that first spell which

i think's in terms of the grand scheme of things pretty good for what i do but i think one

thing i did experience in that test was i just ran so hard everywhere on the ground in the field

and obviously came in really hard that i did feel like the legs dropped off more than normal

more than a championship game and i think one thing i've got better at doing is holding pace

across the last few years but i definitely felt in that test that i dropped off abnormally for me

um right and that's something we've spoken about and i think other bowlers having

checked them around it will experience the same thing on test w whether it's just that

just pushing yourself so much harder and obviously we use the loops and the fitness trackers and

the the spike in terms of calorie burn and energy sort of um expulsion i had on that game

compared to a championship game was so much higher and i think again be all invasive what i was

trying to do this winter um just to push that so that if i'm in that get that opportunity again i'm

more prepared to to maintain so i believe that i can bowl at a pace whereby you can challenge

the top top players in the world and i've got some pretty good players out along the way so far

on good pitches so in my head i don't see why i can't i can't push that into into the

in its social environment again and and compete at that level feels like it goes in waves i

doesn't it because sometimes you'll hear and it's not just England by the way it was the same in

Australia when Darren Lehman was coach about the importance of 140 and above and then Michael

Neser and Scott Bolland have got Alex carry up to the stump so half the ashes you know what i mean

like it does seem to go in cycles where occasionally we we we as a cricket world think that

pace is kind of everything and then then it's an adjustment someone like Vernon for the lander

quite obviously had a remarkable test career bowling um well certainly bowling mid to high 70s

and his numbers were staggering around the world and i mean this is kind of the point i was making

before and my question i guess is that the misconception to an extent that that that pace is

everything when your statistical profile the guys you've picked up your consistency over a number

of seasons different conditions different times of year different ball i mean this is what

jimmy Anderson was able to make an art form of for literally two decades right i mean there is a

there is a very recent guy who did this forever um that that and it's it's not faint praise to say

that you know you you should in theory at least be rewarded for that kind of consistency

yeah i mean i think like the the guys you've mentioned there obviously jibby's my absolute

idol in terms of someone that you've grown up watching and tried to emulate and sort of

built yourself as a baller around kind of what he he did i mean i'm probably slightly different

to him as no baller is the same but the likes of

philander and the vast and people like that that have had very very successful

test careers a similar pace profile to what i do that obviously drives you on and

partly it's got to it's got to be self belief as well and that's self sort of motivation that

those guys can do it so why can't i but it's then stripping things back to right or

what what is the difference between them and the other guy is the ball at that pace and that's

kind of what i've tried to do and in terms of skill set i still i don't think i'm a million miles off

um what's needed but like you say you you just got to keep practicing and getting better

and and evolving your game and adding those sort of little one two half percent as whatever it is

to make sure that you're you're keeping your game evolving because you can't just sit back and go

well my record's been great up to now so just keep doing it but it's getting that balance right

i've keep trying to get better without going away from massively what you're good at and those

sort of cornerstones of what you are as a baller is because like you say obviously i don't want to

blow my own trumpet too much but my my numbers are pretty good um but how do i keep that and

maintain that and keep keep getting better and keep those coming down so that's what i'm trying to

do and and hopefully i get another opportunity in some at some stage to to pull on the cap and

and try and prove that to to not that i need to prove it to people but i want to play for England

you know i mean like that's what i want to do i want to play more games and want to play more

test matches so yeah hopefully um i get the opportunity to do that and and yeah hopefully the

chips fall my way a little bit friendlier than than than than previously where is that cap

at the moment do you know what you've got as i says yeah it's upstairs in my house i've actually

funny story i've got i've actually got two because my head was too big to fit the one that they

presented me with so they've actually got me another one so i've got i've got the one that i

did actually wear the original one but it stretched a little bit now but as my mates will tell me

my brother particularly i've got a massive head physically not so psychologically so yeah it was

very tight getting it on so yeah i've actually got two setups there so i don't know what quite

what i'm going to do with the spare one but yeah luckily it stretched a bit throughout the weekend

i can just about get it on now did you realise when you did you actually wear the the one that was

too small when you're out there in the field or did you sort this out before you had to actually

no i luckily we had i think we were we batted first so i had a sort of day of trying to sort

of stretch it a little bit and i thought i can't i can't wear it there was a little bit of a delay

i think in the second one arriving so i was yeah i wasn't going to wear anything other than that

hats i just sort of had to stretch it out and get on with it but yeah it doesn't i don't think

it looks too bad in hindsight it just felt like my head was going to explode for the first few

hours which was yeah good fun you know the only one Chris Rogers had that happen with his baggy

green he made his test to do in early 2008 and he had i think the story goes he had to cut

some of the um elastic so that he's had to get into the baggy green it was kind of part of the

the wider story of here having had a pretty tough first week in international cricket i mean he's

perhaps someone you could look to an inspiration really with with what buck you went on to a

an outstanding test cricket and when he when he got his second bite of the cherry i wonder

to what extent Troy Cooley might be part of this story for you as well there was a big emphasis

yesterday from Rob Key and Richard Gold when they spoke to us around the i don't know what you're

called the internal review on the ashes some version of that that um that Troy Cooley was going to

be coming in but he made a decision that he wanted to work with the England ballers of course

he's been famously involved with England before Australia India etc but if you had much to do with

Troy in the past and you excited by the idea of working with someone in an England context who's

achieved such great things over a long stretch of time yeah i mean i had a i've had a brief

brief experience with Troy actually while back during the um the covid ashes where

we went with the lines to to support that and Troy were with us for sort of that that period and

and he was phenomenal i like obviously his his coaching record speech for itself is one of the

great ball and coaches around and see his international record as a coach is phenomenal and

and i remember he was left such an impression in that short period of time um from working with him

and yeah obviously when i heard that he he was coming back to work for the ECB it was yeah extremely

exciting and yeah it was fortunate enough to to work with him again on this this lines trip just

now that obviously unfortunately it got cut short but it was brilliant to work with him and

so he's done a lot of work with Neil Colleen as well in in the room and see coaches back at

Essex as well that getting sort of that exposure to him was brilliant i did a couple of really

really good conversations sort of around my identity as a bowler and what i can bring to the England

team and just sort of obviously getting that sort of confirmation from someone like that as well

that believe you've got the skill set to do it and we believe that you're good enough obviously

that that's great and he's someone that hopefully i'll get the opportunity to work with a lot more

going forward and yeah i think it's it's incredibly exciting for for English cricket to have him

back involved because his is coaching record is obviously phenomenal and obviously a small

experience i've had working with him he's he's been fantastic so yeah it's really really exciting

it's interesting that he would provide you that reassurance like maybe it's just me from the

perspective of someone he's played cricket forever but at a much lower level that you think that

by the time you reach your level that there be no sort of need for that reassurance that any

self-doubt would have evaporated long ago but is it just the nature of the sport really that cricket

so capricious that having someone i'm not saying this is the only thing he was doing but having

someone pump up your tires actually does have an effect yeah i mean i think it's a it's a fine

it's a fight yeah it's a fine balance i think i mean i don't think i'm someone that

needs that too much i think i'm pretty headstrong and i'm pretty um yeah i'm pretty confident

in my my abilities but i think just having that conversation with someone with such experience

in international cricket it's only going to reassure you and make you feel better about things

do you know what i mean i think it's a you'd be stupid to take that any other way from someone

like Troy that is just he's not going to say things for the sake of it do you know what i mean

so yeah that i think like you say cricket being such individualized that yeah there is i think

there's a fine line between telling someone their goods or their great or a young player for

example pump their tires up too much to actually and when people sometimes need it and i think

potentially i did need that do you know what i mean that little bit of that reassurance and

and that sort of um yeah that i guess that reassurance but again it's also something i didn't feel

like i needed i need desperately all the time you know what i mean but i think just from a mindset

point of view coming into this summer and trying to get back in that England team it's it's a good

sort of drive to to push you to want to work hard and to want to get better and work with

with top coaches so yeah i think it was a it was very beneficial and it can't hurt that you'd

presumably have got Jimmy on speed dial as well right having worked with Jimmy in that that

that bowling assistant role that he was performing at different points over the last couple of

years and still of course he's on the circuit captaining Lancashire right you'll come up against

well not against each other because they're in db2 i guess but still being in the same orbit as Jimmy

as a player but also being able to to sort of draw down on the wisdom of your of your hero

yeah i mean i'd love to to work with Jimmy um closely again at some stage i think he's just he's

someone that when i've had the opportunity to spend time with just just turn into that sort of

sponge mentality just try and take in as much as you can and and a lot of it for me as well as

sort of just watching him operate particularly when he's still still it sort of in and around

as a ball i mean i like say he's still playing uh but just watching how he goes about it for me

that's it's almost the actions as much as sort of the words Jimmy um but yeah he's obviously

someone that i've always been incredibly um sort of in all of how they are as a as a as a baller

and and just trying to just pick up as much information as i can and body exactly the same i mean

i've been very fortunate to spend time with the body sort of in and around cricket and

he's always extremely helpful and open to talking about bowling so yeah i mean to have to be able

like if you asked 10-year-old me or told 10-year-old me that you were going to be able to sort of

talk to those guys is as a sort of like fellow players and people that not even know who you are

you know what i mean but to actually talk about your name and and how you can get better it's yeah

it's a bit of a pinch me moment but professional you'd be stupid not to tap into to that knowledge and

people like that and yeah it works you as well i mean he's someone that's spent quite a bit of time

with and all the all these guys are so open and love talking about bowling so yeah you'd be

you'd be stupid not to to try and tap into it when you when you get the opportunity to

and so it all starts again um friday round one top year mark presumably jami ported down the

other end whenever it is that sx gets to bowl in that first round match um you know that it's

it's a long journey uh through a cricket season but yeah you must feel with all the work that's

been done behind the scenes with you over the last couple of years that you know a full crack

it up not being compromised by being away getting to just roll in from the first weekend of april

all the way through but almost must be a relief that we're here again yeah it's exciting it's

like that sort of first day back back at school time feel to it it's it's i think this year though

like you say having a really fresh winter with very little cricket i feel a lot more refreshed and a

lot more um yeah just refreshed and ready for it a lot more than probably you always fill up for it

and are very into go but i think from a physical point of view i feel fresh a lot fresher than i

have done the last few years coming into those first first few games so yeah i'm really

yeah just driven and determined and ready to get going from a personal point of view but it's

for me it's i think and and again this is from being in a squad and a team like s6 where the

championship victory is such a big motivation that's what you're turning up that first week

where it goes to start that to start that journey ready to to compete at the top and that's what

we're all extremely driven to do as a squad so yeah it's exciting yeah hopefully it'll be

won't be too cold at the top of the mark when you're pushing off the the side screen to to

kick things off because yeah i know what that can be like down in the years when real feel a minus two

and yeah i've played in some pretty chilly games down there so hopefully the weather picks up and

and it won't be too cold because yeah that ground can be pretty brutal when when it's blowing and

it's freezing so yeah just excited to get get back out there with the boys and and yeah hopefully

start a successful season brilliant well all i can say is good luck to you and good luck to s6 it's

been great to get a sense of you know how your mind ticks and how you think about the game and

your prodigious skill set um i'm sure it won't be long before you're pushing for England honors

again and we'll be back in for you on the final way thanks for joining us and thank you

thanks a lot my jizz really appreciate it thank you

i had to go out and ride it out and find it myself and there's some stories i can tell you

i had to fail had to fall just for what i did well and there's some stories i can tell you

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