The Future of the Right After Trump? State Freedom Caucuses | 3/12/26

Politics without the soap opera with unfiltered constitutional conservative truth.

The conservative review with Daniel Horowitz and welcome back fellow American patriots

and Minutemen standing at the ready to fight anew the issues that matter today on this

fine Thursday here at CR podcast, your host Daniel Harwoods back here to discuss our

future of the issues that matter, you know, I was thinking today.

Who is it, name the organization, name the people elected, unelected influencers,

podcaster, bros, writers, who is it that has a plan to build something beyond President

Trump?

Okay, I mean, his star is going to be waning, he's turned out, Democrats are going to crush

it, we're ignoring all the primaries this year.

How are we going to create and reconstitute a movement that we used to try to grow, at

least attempted to grow, to live out our culture, our economic vision, our standard of living

in at least a minority of the country.

And at least the red estates picked the ones that Trump won by 15 to 20 points or more.

This should be the question we're all asking because now all my colleagues recognize that

even the Save Act, which is very much a side issue, if you think about it, they can't

even pass that won't pass it.

And I figured I'd bring on today Andy Roth of the state freedom caucus network because

he is the only one thinking of building something beyond this just algorithm, whatever is put

down that pipe, no thought to what we believe, people that actually are grounded in things

that are beyond what does Trump think at a given moment, their public and leadership,

and they're actually trying to conserve what we have in red states and then make them

actually read.

That is continuously going to be my focus and he's the only one doing that.

So I'm going to bring him on, but there's a lot going on nationally.

And I wasn't even considering talking about this, but a lot of you have seen me on Twitter

at RM Conservative doing this.

I know I'm censored there.

But you think about Republicans who have failed to pass a single bill in regular order,

get it signed by Trump to fulfill any of the campaign promises, nothing on healthcare

inflation, cost of living, nothing on immigration moratorium, even partial immigration

moratorium, judicial reform, even changing the INA in a way that we can get out illegal

aliens, nothing, nothing has been done.

But now the one bill that the Senate leadership and the White House are behind is Elizabeth

Warren's Socialist Section 8 Housing Bill.

And the fact that I'm the only one on the right even discussing it, much less viscerally

opposing it, demonstrates the need for this conversation about the state freedom caucuses,

which is that we don't have a movement that even knows what it believes.

It's so dumb that you could put something on Twitter and have the first five influencers

to order Trump himself supported.

And it could be the biggest enathema to anything we believe in.

And they'd support it.

They don't know what to think, good, bad.

I joked around today, Democrats could pass Obamacare, something of that magnitude and

devastating consequence overnight with Republican support.

And not a single guy on the right would even bat an eyelash or care about it.

And in fact, if the right people and Trump would support it, they would support it.

And their organizations on their legislative scorecard would score in favor of it.

So this house bill is something that quintessentially the organizations would have been screaming

about scoring against.

And yet we hear nothing.

We hear absolutely nothing from them.

So what I'm talking about here is obviously this bipartisan housing bill, HR6644, the

road act, R-O-A-D, as amended by the House.

And before I just go through the provisions again, I've talked about this before, a lot

of people don't realize what's happening here.

Trump came out with this policy that he didn't want institutional investors to own too

many houses.

So a lot of people on the right support it in a vacuum, I support it, although it's not

the cause of the housing problem, it's a symptom.

And it's actually a delayed reaction to a symptom that's being rectified because institutional

investors are selling off their houses precisely because they know the market's going to crash

and prices are coming down.

And Trump is committed to actually keeping prices up for seniors, which is a part of this

bill to subsidize even more building, more incentives to get people into housing when you

just need to stay out of it and stop fueling the bubble.

But anyway, I'm okay codifying a partial ban, which it does.

But this bill, the foundation of it from Elizabeth Warren and Tim Scott was created long before

this policy of Trump.

So last night in committee, they tacked this provision on, but that's not the main point

of it.

And the utility of that provision is not enough to weigh against the negative nature of what

is in the crux of the bill.

So the crux of this socialist housing bill is not just the fact that it spends too much

money, expands HUD's authority, grows the very programs that Trump and every budget

promise to eliminate.

It's that this bill sits at the nexus of the most dangerous assault on red America, the

continuity of our communities, our demographics, our culture, our vitality.

Everyone's talking about what?

Well, these blue areas, these Democrats come in turnover red areas, saturate them with

over development that they don't need, saturate them with wind, solar, carbon capture, data

centers, sectionate housing, all this stuff.

This bill literally uses in a guidance and incentives from the feds, codifies it into

law to work with rhino local governments, because even the redist areas, the local governments

are all bought out by developers.

And all of these acorn have a tattoo for humanity, left wing political infrastructure groups

to politically and culturally gerrymandered your neighborhood with, with section eight.

By the way, at a time when we have an oversaturation, everyone in the housing industry would agree

with what I'm saying.

Even if you believe there's areas where there's a tight supply, but the, the south is overbuilt,

which is why prices are coming down and if you let it come down, it will come down a lot

more.

We don't need more supply that is not the problem.

This entire bill is built upon an erroneous premise and makes no sense.

So section 101 of the HR6644 requires, HUD to publish guidelines and best practices for

state and local zoning reforms to increase housing supply.

You know what that means, folks?

This is literally what Obama tried to do, that we all screamed about when we used to have

a movement, that he's trying to move section eight into our areas and turn red areas blue.

Now look,

we all understand that there are certain areas, particularly in blue areas, but sometimes

in red areas where there's onerous county or HOA level restrictions and regulations.

But my gosh, folks, weighed against the threat of not having zoning or not having the autonomy

at a local level to determine that and having the feds determine it when they are trying

to rezone everything for solar wind data centers section eight.

You do not want to give up that authority.

If you have problems, fight that at a local level and if you can't succeed in your Trump

plus 30 county, you sure as heck aren't going to fight the feds on this.

You don't want to relinquish that control.

Why would we want to incentivize and create all these competitive grants for local governments

and blue developers to saturate our suburbs?

Again, think about your suburban exorbit or rural red area.

Do you want the federal government placing guidance?

Now, it's not a mandate, but you know all these rhino governments care about are economic

grants, economic development.

So they give these little carrots.

If you basically section 102 competitive grants to local governments to create pattern books

for expedited permitting of mixed income, affordable structures, what the hell do you think

that means?

You know what that means?

Section 103.

Hut to issue guidelines, model codes for single stare multifamily buildings up to six

stories.

Folks, there's a time and a place for that.

But we don't want these things in other areas and you need the decision making authority

at the local level to ensure that doesn't happen.

This is the this bill is a nuclear bomb passing this is worse than not passing the save act.

And yet nobody is scoring against it.

No one's activated on it.

Section 202 creates a new federal grant program to fund local housing projects and designated

zones.

It's a warm over version of the community engineering schemes.

Obama did push the decade ago section 209 establishes a 200 million yearly fund at Hut to award

innovative housing reforms to localities that reshape zoning to favor dense subsidize

units.

What do you think that is?

And again, we don't need it in the south.

We don't need it in most red areas.

They're overdeveloped.

Everyone knows that.

And if you want more development, deal with that at the local level.

You do not want the federal government doing it.

But notice this ties into data centers that the number one goal of Trump and Senate Republicans

is to shove down our throats.

The use and rape of our land for everything that it shouldn't be used for.

This is the number one fight.

It's utterly ridiculous.

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So anyway, this stupid communist housing bill, it also expands the community block grant

program, the home program, two programs that trump in every budget promise to cut actually

eliminate with understanding that these NGOs and developers are nothing but political

infrastructure at the local level for the left.

And again, this bill is so dangerous because like there's one thing if red counties were

governed by people like you and me.

So officially, there's no mandate in here.

It's guidance and incentives, but as you well know, the biggest kryptonite of 90 percent

of local Republican leaders, probably even more so than the state ones and the legislators,

but the county guys is all about economic development and the land developers and getting

donations from them.

This bill will set into motion in irrevocable and transformational pipeline of endless

funds to flow to local rhinos and Democrat politicians and Democrat NGOs and local land

and housing developers to support rezoning in a way that is going to take your suburban ex-urban

and rural red county and turn it into utter trash section 8 over development.

And this is going to tie into wouldn't surprise me if they find ways to use this for data

centers as well as the same theme.

This my friends is not just a side thing.

This is going to be the one bipartisan bill that they actually plan on enacting under

this GOP trifecta.

And you look in the house, so the house is blocking at it, but ironically, their main concern

is just that it doesn't include a provision banning central digital bank currency.

Like that's a side issue, they want to put that in there.

They can never invade against the meat and potatoes of the bill.

I think there are a few that are starting to see my work and they're starting to jump

on that, so hopefully we'll block it in the house, even though the house already passed

a version of this.

I just want to share in observation with you that really ties into the theme of the

day that the very elements of the right that were supposed to be not special interest,

not corporate interest, more in tune with the grassroots, whether they're your favorite

podcaster, your, you know, favorite publication, your favorite think tank or NGO on the right,

that used to scream bloody murder about this sort of stuff.

They don't even care or they don't even know what to think.

They're so caught in this mindset of they have no thoughts of their own.

So whatever Trump puts out, that's what they'll focus on, whatever he doesn't put out,

they won't focus on.

And if what he does put out is good, they'll either support it or they'll remain silent

about it, but they certainly want to pose it.

You know what was funny?

Do you know the only senator who spoke out against that I could see this bill?

Now there were about 10 of them or eight of them who voted against cloture.

So Rand Paul Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, Mike Johnson, not Mike Johnson, Senator Johnson from Wisconsin,

a couple others voted against the bill, Rick Scott of Florida did, but Tom Tillis, Tom

Tillis is like, my God, when did conservative Republicans start carrying Elizabeth Warren's

banner on housing strategy?

Now, some of this is kind of like in reverse, like once you're a liberal in so many issues

and you're opposing Trump from the left, so then, you know, you want to gum up the works.

Why not when you actually have a conservative talking point?

Why not utilize it?

So some of that's a little bit of that going on too, but I do find it funny that there

is some profundity to this that Tom Tillis say what you want about it.

He might be a conduit for K street, but he's not a conduit for Trump or this just cultish.

Say what you want about Tom Tillis, he's not an algorithmic bot.

He's just more of a traditional special interest case street guy.

This bill is not really a priority of most of those people.

It has its special interest, but it's just kind of random.

So he's like, since when we're conservatives for more HUD, which fuels the bubble, but

when I'm telling you, worse than even fueling the housing bubble, it is going to over saturate

over development in places that are already overdeveloped and bring in section eight and

all sorts of problems accompanying that it literally has it in the bill mixed income.

And freaking Tom Tillis is the only guy opposing it.

This is unsustainable.

We can't go on like this.

We got to do better.

We got to do better.

And yet we're not.

You look at the primaries and where are we?

You know, in Mississippi on Tuesday night, I didn't get a chance to talk about this yesterday.

So both parties had senatorial primaries.

And Cindy Hyde Smith, she won with 82%.

It used to be we, we got an automatic 30% against any Rhino.

Even just a name filed, this person spent a good hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Now, I know there's questions about who she really was, but that's not why people didn't vote for.

It's just that they were flexibly vote for the incumbent endorsed by Trump.

So now 82%, that's similar to what Greg Abbott got, by the way.

And you know, it's interesting.

Democrats came within 15,000 votes of matching Republican turnout in freaking Mississippi.

Compared to 2018, which is a bad year for Republicans, the Republican turnout was down 3%.

Democrat turnout was up 64%.

Okay, Mississippi has photo ID.

That's a reality.

Just 52% in a solid red state chose a Republican ballot.

Obviously, all the Rhino congressmen were reelected.

Nothing inspiring happened.

They don't have state legislative elections, but this is Mississippi.

You go to the Georgia district, Marjorie Taylor Green seat, special election.

We had Colton Moore, who is everything everyone ever wanted, stood up in the legislature.

He got crushed by the guy endorsed by Trump, who refused to even talk about data.

By the way, that's a Trump plus 37 district, but the Republican total was a jungle primary.

But if you add up the Republican votes, it was only Trump plus 20.

That's scrimmage line of D plus 17 about what I've been talking about elsewhere.

Democrats, meanwhile, flipped a new, new Hampshire house, New Hampshire house district seven.

This was a district Trump carried by nine, yet she won it by four points.

The Democrat, so that's a 13 point Democrat overperformance and that's something like their 30th consecutive house flip

without a Republican flipping, you know, legislative seat.

So this, this goes on and on folks.

So not only are we going to be left with a GOP federal trifecta

that doesn't have a single good enduring victory, but actually cements things like Elizabeth Warren's

red state gerrymandor bill and forcing red states to adopt all forms of AI and data centers.

I mean, this is what, like I told you, it's only the bad things that wind up being enduring.

The good things are not enduring.

And then you endorse all the rhinos and red states.

And then you're so bad that Democrats eat up some of the red states.

So you're only left with fewer red states.

What are we left with?

Like, for example, I was speaking with a friend of mine in the Georgia legislature.

And it's pointed out at its peak Republicans had 120 to 60 to the one majority after the 2014 election.

It's ebbed and ebbed.

And now it's just a hundred to 80.

That will likely flip could be the Senate to, but I'm pretty sure about the Georgia House will likely go Democrat.

Meaning until now, despite flipping once or twice with the presidential election statewide, it's been all Republican.

That is definitely going to, going to flip.

What is the movement we have?

Where is this movement?

Because folks, I am not seeing it.

I'm not seeing it one Iota.

So folks, the only way to combat globalism agenda 2030, the land grabs, all this stuff is localism.

That as bad as things get, we don't know where that scrimmage line will get in Republicans are very talented at losing and are doing as good of a job to lose.

But inevitably, we do know we will win Wyoming.

We will win Oklahoma.

We will win South Dakota.

There are states that we will win, no matter how bad things get, well, I'm sorry, not we, there are states where no matter what the voters will reject Democrats.

The question we have before us is they're going to remain one vestige of this world where we have a political representation that reflects the values of the majority of the people.

And we'll preserve conservative, conserve our red state land, farms, ranches, currency, fiscal solvency, culture, demographics, ordered liberty, security, you know, the twin threats of Islam and antifa that aren't being dealt with in states like Texas properly.

That's the question.

I want to just start off before we introduce Andy again, I forgot to mention there's a great story out of rural Oklahoma.

KTUL TV reported on this after Google tried to bribe locals in Osage County to support a massive hyper scale data center, the rock volunteer fire department turned down a 250,000 donation from them.

Because of what they were doing and that was very hard to do in a small town like that. Again, this is a county. I don't have the video here, but this is a county that Trump won by 41 points and the people in the room were standing up and applauding.

Okay.

This is the future movement.

You want to know, you know, we had the Tea Party last 10 years. We've had everything's Trump online algorithms.

This is where it's headed.

We have the building blocks of a movement to beat globalism at a source local level in the areas that we can still conserve our way of life by saying no to solar, no to wind, no to data centers, no to carbon capture, no to smart cities, no to flock cameras.

And yes, pursuant to today's retarded Elizabeth Warren bipartisan crap sandwich, no to section 8 housing, mandated an over development on our communities.

Let the locals decide.

The only institution we have that is starting and has started to be that future that we need to grow is the state freedom caucus network, whose president is with us today, Andy Roth.

I wanted to get an update on the good, the bad, how we grow the movement. Hey, Andy, sorry for making you wait there, but thanks for joining us today.

Thanks for having me, Daniel.

All right, Andy, give us the 30,000 foot view. We're pretty late into this year's legislative sessions. Be honest with us. I know your guys are fighting hard.

Is it a mixed bag of success? Where are we and where do we need to be?

Yeah, I mean, what I typically tell people is that we win no matter what and that that.

Blosses over things a little bit like we are winning on policy and very in a lot of our states, but when we lose, we expose the bad guys so that the voters are aware of it.

As you've heard me say before, most people don't know who their state rep or their state senator is, but because our state freedom caucuses, whether it's the Wyoming Freedom Caucus, South Carolina Freedom Caucus, our new Minnesota Freedom Caucus, they are exposing things that have never, ever been exposed at the state level before.

So I believe that we're winning no matter what, even when we lose, but to your point, the Wyoming Freedom Caucus just wrapped up their legislative session.

The Wyoming Freedom Caucus is fully in charge of the state house, but they have a hostile state Senate and a hostile governor, the Wyoming Freedom Caucus cut millions from the state budget.

They tried to get rid of like the Wyoming Business Council slush fund, which is basically the Chamber of Commerce taking tax dollars to spend on all sorts of garbage.

They were able to cut all sorts of stuff, the Senate paired that back a little, but at the end of the day, we sent a budget to the governor that cut spending in real terms, but then the governor line item vetoed a lot of stuff and it ended up plusing up the budget.

So that's a win because we told the voters what happened every single step of the way.

But it still shows the Wyoming is not where it needs to be because its voters want what the Wyoming Freedom Caucus is delivering, but there's still too many liberal Republicans both in the governor's mansion and in the state Senate who are causing problems.

One other example is in South Carolina, things did not go well at all on the budget. They plused it up, they funded all sorts of cronyism, and even though the South Carolina Freedom Caucus was screaming at their top their lungs, the Democrats and the Liberal Republicans had the votes to pass that budget.

So it's a slog, but we started from zero, maybe even negative, and we're fighting as hard as we can, and we're getting there. It's just going to take time, time that we may not have.

No, no, and Andy, I think this is what people need to understand. The question is, do we have enough time, but there is a difference between one and certainly five to 10 good members and zero.

I'm certainly finding that today with my sole battle against what would have been every conservative organization yelling about this, but now we don't believe in anything care about anything other than the next algorithmic slop.

So it's making a difference, and I see that. So you have this in West Virginia. I was so happy and excited about this because that is it's just a heartbreaking state where I, I mean, this has really animated me because I live in Maryland.

It's next door, and you look upon West Virginia's the promised land, you go there, and we vacation there, and we go and we see these ugly disgusting vile

winterbines, like it says in Deuteronomy, every, every idol on every beautiful high top mountain, and you know, they weren't even spinning. And then I see all the signs as we go to the Canaan Valley.

And, you know, people are have these signs out, very downscale homes, the type of people that MAGA was supposed to represent.

No data centers, no data centers. In that state, they gave.

They, they, they gave full tax exemptions and barred all localities from having any zoning other than what would accommodate their things. So it's like, it's like me saying,

my son likes fixing cars. So he wants to, you know, fix cars. I'm going to have a car garage repair shop on my residential street. That's not a regulation if I stop that that you can't do that.

So anyway, now they have a bill. They want to exempt them from every tax imaginable.

Okay, we don't do that for power plants that supply the power. They suck the power.

Describe what your freedom caucus is working on on that and other issues.

Yeah, let me back up a little bit and just set the scene because everybody does think that West Virginia is this great conservative state, Trump won 7030 against Kamala Harris.

So it's very, very conservative. The voters are. But if you look at the state legislature, you would think it's also conservative because there's in the state house, there's 91 Republicans to 9 Democrats.

91 to 9. And in the state Senate, it's 32 to 2. These aren't super majorities. These are like super, super, super majorities. So you would think that West Virginia would be passing all sorts of amazing things on par with what DeSantis has done in Florida, but they're not.

And the reason why is because the Republicans are arguably just as liberal as the Democrats, except for the West Virginia freedom caucus, of which we have just six members, but those mighty six members are now trying to expose all of this. There was one vote that just happened either this morning or yesterday, where West Virginia has on its books, a backdoor red flag law, which allows the government to take guns away from

its citizens. The West Virginia freedom caucus forced a vote because it otherwise wouldn't have happened. They forced a vote to repeal the red flag law. And it, and it was defeated overwhelmingly. I can't remember the roll call, but it was like 80 20. There were only 17 no votes or 17 yes votes to repeal the red flag law. That's the sort of situation we're in.

And West Virginia is very pro gun, but when you look at their legislature, it is very, very liberal. A lot of the Republicans in the legislature literally were Democrats with a D after their name, but once the tide started to turn in the state, they just put an R after their name and got reelected. Now, let me make one point.

Governor Morrissey is, you know, he, when he got elected last year, he was like, okay, we're going to do some conservative things. And he walked right into a buzz saw with all these rhinos and Democrats. And I'm not saying Morrissey's perfect, but he's actually trying to cut the budget and trying to get rid of some stuff. And he is confronted with a very, very hostile legislature.

And this red flag thing, this is just one example, like it's, it happens count, countless times in the session. And so if we're going to win, if the Freedom Caucus, the West Virginia Freedom Caucus is going to win every voter in West Virginia needs to know what's going on in Charleston and what's happening and how these people are taking away their freedoms and the right every single day.

So Andy, look, my goal today is not is to ensure that you don't wind up with as few friends as I have. So I don't want to get you in trouble. And I won't mention names, but what you're saying is a is an indictment, not just of the West Virginia state legislators and adjacent similar state legislatures and other overwhelmingly Republican states.

Because I remember complaining and you and I used to talk about this for years, you know, two decades ago, where we actually sometimes got tired of the abortion and gun issues, not that we weren't strong on them, but that all too often that was the only thing these guys were good on.

And then, you know, they would use that to grow government and do all this bad stuff and the green energy and whatever.

But now what you're telling me is we've actually gone backwards over the last decade, because this is the point, I'm not trying to black pill, you can't get the ball in the end zone, if you think you already have it there.

And what I'm trying to tell people is my concern is we've actually gone backwards in many ways. And what I want to bring this discussion to and hopefully you could shed some positive light on this and

where we are, I'm looking at the primaries and because we have no watchdogs anymore, all these conservative NGOs and figures, they either don't care sometimes they even enable some of the people and organizations that are part of what's going on because they're just focused on sophistry or their Twitter accounts or whatever they're doing or it's just whatever the president talks about that's all they care about.

And it's gotten to the point where we've gone backwards in primaries. It used to be in the Tea Party era, we had an automatic 30% against incumbents with a name filed on the ballot. Now it was hard to get beyond that.

Now it's actually at 18 is the new thing. We saw it. We saw it with Cindy Hyde Smith yesterday.

They're it's combatos. No one cares about primaries. So my question to Andy is, how do we get beyond this defeat mechanism of not just your West Virginia local rhinos, but a lot of

Mutual friends of ours that all they will be chanting the next number of months is we've got to beat the Democrats.

How many seats in the House of Congress when it's lost already? How do we break that?

You know, I you mentioned being blackpilled before. I am thoroughly blackpilled in a lot of ways, especially at the federal level, precisely about what you're talking about. I do worry about the congressional races and the Senate races simply because there doesn't seem to be much fight going on.

You know, at the at the beginning of Trump's administration when we were dozing everything and we were doing all these amazing things. And then it came to a complete halt.

Enthusiasm was very high back. And now it's not. So I am blackpilled at the federal level, but at the state level, I'm pretty, pretty whitepilled in the in my little neck of the woods, which is

our Freedom Caucus members are becoming household names in their areas and last election cycle. And it's true. That was a presidential year.

But all of our members or over 95% of our members got reelected. We kicked out 14 rhinos in South Dakota. We kicked out an assistant majority leader in South Carolina.

We kicked out a majority leader in Idaho. Like we did what not to talk my own book, but we did what we were supposed to do. We told the voters what we believe in and what we care about.

And the voters were like, yeah, absolutely. Let's keep doing that. And so we are still doing that. And so I do think that at the state level.

We're going to keep winning our Freedom Caucus members are now it's we're not going to be able to revolutionize all red states in the primaries of this summer.

But I do think that rhinos are going to continue to lose their seats. Freedom Caucus members are going to continue to retain their seats and add more seats.

But we only have 15 state Freedom Caucuses. We don't have 50. And it's going to be a while before we get all 50. So I wake up in the morning and I yeah, I'm just I wake up in the morning and I take a black pill.

But throughout the day, I do take multiple white pills and I go to bed optimistic. But but then the cycle repeats itself.

And Andy, I am with you. So first of all, to your credit, you guys have not been up to that yet. So we've had Texas, Arkansas and North Carolina are the three states that had primaries so far, regularly scheduled, you know, midterm primaries. None of them have a Freedom Caucus. And, you know, to be fair in Texas, there was a little bit more success in the legislature than federally, I would say, there were two committee chairs that were knocked out.

Um, there were a lot of good, there were a lot of good conservatives that were defeated, though, or lost their primaries in the legislature. So I don't think it was that great. Not incumbents, but there were solid conservatives that should have been able to win. But because all the money and all the swamp money was backing these, these

look at you, look at you getting to getting to my blacker pill side, you know, you're, you're worse than me now. And like it did bother me because, you know, I'm not giving it a pinning on compacts in his life and whatever.

But game theory wise, you will never get a bigger eight on Japan gorilla challenger to an incumbent like in my lifetime.

And you look, you looked at it was very disappointing. I thought that would create like, you know, some people were upset at me. No, Daniel, we had some successes. But what they were pointing to is very minor relative to the magnitude of a top of the ticket and surgeon candidate against John Corning, you should have had a bunch of state legislative

people. But to be fair, your network does not have an organization there yet. So you have not been up to that. So I don't want to prejudge that. But again, some of it's not your fault. I'm very concerned. I share your view.

I'm black pilled federally. We see you can't, you can't do anything because even in the 9010, we can't do anything. So certainly in a 50 50 with a bunch of rhinos, you know, in the, you're not going to do anything.

But in theory, I do see that I'm seeing state legislative races are more volatile than congressional races that it takes less money.

But our colleagues don't give a damn. They just don't like that. That's, that's, but they don't care. And it's not just legislative. They don't care about governor's races too. They still think that if you have a star, oh, who's going to take over Mark Wayne Mullinsy.

Dude, who's going to take over Kevin Stitz seat? What do you think about that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I just to go back to Texas. I spend an irresponsible amount of time following Texas politics because that's one state that desperately needs a Texas freedom caucus. But if Texas were its own country, it would be like the 7th or 8th largest country in the world. So that means money actually like dictates everything. And that's why the swamp is so fully and charged down there.

Not just in Austin, but at the federal level too, with their, with, you know, Cornyn being so in sconce as he is. The, the frustrating thing about national politics is that every two years, there is like one single rhino of senator who may be in jeopardy. There aren't like six or seven or eight of them. Yeah. Right. So what Paxton has been able to do.

I think is amazing just because of all of the money that's in Texas. And I do think he's going to pull it out unless there's some shenanigans that occur with with a Trump endorsement or with the save act or anything like that. I frankly, I still think

can't Paxton's going to pull that out. But in other states, because there's less money, it, there's, it should be favorable to us. And I do think that it is

favorable at the, at the legislative level. But these governor races, there are so many red states that have awful, awful, awful governors.

Mark Warren or Mark Gordon and Wyoming is just, he's literally a Democrat.

And Brad Lil' Anitahoe and Jean Fulcane on Santa. Yeah. Yeah. We were certain we were going to get rid of him.

We were certain we were going to get rid of him. Trump comes in. None of our allies give up bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep.

By the way, I joked around before that Democrats could pass an Obamacare magnitude bill overnight.

And if the algorithms or the president don't talk about it, they won't know or care. And if they do and support it, they'll support it too.

I mean, we have to rebuild them. There's, there's got like, we were told 2024 Trump's got to win. Okay.

That's, that's a long time ago. He won. You got what you wanted. We got to build this movement. And I just,

if I were a black pill, that wouldn't be having this conversation. I'm red-pilled.

The opportunity is there, but it's narrow.

Well, the, the, the one big giant white pill that I desperately hope I get to swallow, you know,

with my breakfast tomorrow morning or later this summer, I guess, is in Arizona and South Carolina.

Because Andy Biggs, Freedom Caucus members running for governor, we have an Arizona Freedom Caucus.

And when you combine a Freedom Caucus governor and a state Freedom Caucus together,

they can do magical things, especially in a swing state like Arizona.

And then we can do the same thing with Ralph Norman in South Carolina. He's running for governor.

And we have an awesome South Carolina Freedom Caucus. If we can do those two things, they will be

two shining lights across the country that people can look to. You know, with DeSantis leaving

getting turned out in Florida, we no longer have that, that light to point to to say,

everyone be like Florida. But we, we have that opportunity in Arizona and South Carolina.

And maybe a couple of other places, but those two are, are the big examples that I know.

Let's go down the Rolex. I know you're strong enough to do this without preparation.

I'm just going to go, go along the states that Trump won most of them overwhelmingly.

Um, Alabama, KIV is term limited.

Um, so, you know, I'm assuming the senator, you know, he's got it pretty much.

Yeah, he, Tuberville's got it, I think, but he's got going to have a legislature that is

incredibly hostile to any sort of conservative. I mean, I, I, I mentioned West Virginia before,

Alabama's worse than that. So just to give you an idea, the, the, the, the, the, the Democrats

overwhelmingly have a majority in both chambers. And I'm not just saying the ones with a D after

their name, but the Democrats within our after their name. So that's, that's, that's a tough,

tough state to go. Yeah, Alaska. I hope he wins, but that's the problem. Yeah, that's Alaska.

Same problem. The legislature is just awful. And, and not only is Alaska a problem,

but, and I think they got away with the, uh, got rid of this, but the Democrats and the Republicans

there literally have like a formal agreement of how they're going to, uh, share governing there.

Just like in Texas and a couple of other places. It's, it's really bad.

Yeah, I mean, the thing with Arizona is I wish Andy Biggs could be in another state.

It's going to be very, very tough with Republicans thinking up the joint to, to win a state like that.

Florida, you know, is very tough now to try to replace that. That's a big problem. Um, you know,

Idaho, he's running for a third term because Murphy's law where we need term limits. We don't have

them and where we don't want them. We do have them. Yeah. You know, Iowa, you got, uh, Iowa was a real,

a real mess. Uh, if the guy like Fienstra is, is able to win there. Hopefully Trump doesn't

come in and endorse him. You know, I look around the red states, you know, I'm just going to read

them and then tell me if there's anyone I'm missing. But Kansas, Nebraska, uh, Ohio, Oklahoma,

um, Tennessee, Texas, Wyoming.

Um, I don't know. I, I mean, do you see any. None of those are screaming out as amazing

opportunities. Yeah. I skipped over South Dakota because we have Jim Hansen there, but, but this

is another one of those things where to be quite candid, we, we lack a movement. So you have two

establishment candidates come in and then you have another guy come in that's a self-fund,

during this becoming a big problem, puts on the red hat. Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump,

a mage, mage, mage reads conservative Twitter. But then when the algorithm doesn't tell him what to

say and he has to talk about data centers, um, then you know, oh, oh, so then I mean, but he has a

ton of money to run like he's a right winger. So it's letting the conservative vote. You saw

the Emerson poll has it like, um, Dusty Johnson's at 27. So he's under 35 could be drawn into a runoff

and then all the other ones are clustered. Jim, you know, Hansen's in the game, but, you know,

how do we. No, I mean, I, I, I kind of think South Dakota has some potential, um, simply because

Dusty Johnson is their lone congressman. He should have fairly high name ID and yet a majority

of South Dakota voters either don't know him or don't like him. Um, the polling I saw had him at

28%, uh, which I think is pretty abysmal for someone in his position. So I, I think, I think South

Dakota has an opportunity to prevent Dusty from becoming governor. And if they do that, I think

that's, that's fantastic. And we have a South Dakota Freedom Caucus and they've been hostile

to Dusty and rightfully so. So yeah, you, you mentioned all these states. South Dakota is, you

know, top, top tier or second tier is, is a good opportunity for us to, to pick something up.

Yeah, but I, I think overall that we are 11 years in Tamaga and almost every red state is up.

Most of them are up this cycle for governorships. It's, it's, it's, it's sad and it's a big,

big indictment. And my question to you is, you know, I've had this debate with friends of mine,

fellow colleagues here at the blaze, is it that voters don't give a damn about primaries and

they're apathetic and don't know, don't care? Or is it a lack of leadership of conservative NGOs

and media? I don't think it's a, uh, apathy or, or they don't care. I think it's because they're

being inundated was so much that they have to prioritize when they turn on the TV or open up

their phone. They're hearing about the war and I ran the war in Ukraine, inflation, Trump,

Congress, insider trading of congressmen and, and, and senators. And like, then what's after that?

Well, they've got to worry about their family. They've got to worry about their kids softball game

or, or basketball game. Oh, they've got to worry about, you know, going to church and doing

other things. What's left? Well, I would argue that it, you know,

prioritize family first, obviously, but pay attention to what's going on your state level,

because if you do pay attention and you are informed, you'll make the right decision. I trust the

voters in that respect. And so the way we solve this problem is making sure that our state freedom

caucuses are as loud and as vocal as possible about what's going on their states. And I do

believe it. And I see it every day. There are voters that didn't know, didn't care about state

politics until freedom caucus came into their state. And they do now pay attention. So I believe

we've cracked the code. I figure we have figured out how to change hearts and minds. It's just a

slow slog because we've started from such a bad position to begin with. So you're agreeing with

me, then, in other words, that if certain, if you have the right leadership, and you would put

this on their plate, they would eat it. And you're loud enough about it to break through all the

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Paid for by pharma. Yeah, because I myself can't even keep up on top of all this. I'm even

know about the gun thing in West Virginia. Like, I know they're bad. And then I'm looking like,

no, it can't, it can't be that bad. They're even bad on that. But yes, it's that bad. And we just

basically have, you know, we were building a very substantial movement to hold the Republican

party accountable. And now that entire movement has just become a Republican party defeat mechanism

and incumbent protection racket or just kind of noise making machine that distracts people.

Do you agree with my contention that going back to Texas, you're never going to get

a better quality person than chip Roy. And I don't just mean ideologically, but also the fact that

he built up a bunch of name idea notoriety that he entered the race with the most notoriety

for attorney general. This is the perfect position for him because you need the largest red

state AG when the Democrat Democrats are likely going to jump into the swing back. They'll be

present. You're going to have to fight Islam and Tifa weaponization. It's going to be a hundred

times worse. You're going to need that. We thought we had that in the bag. You have a random guy

comes with, with millions of dollars, special interest, green energy, dumps money in against chip.

I guess they know something about his opponent that we don't because that guy claims he's a conservative.

I have come to the conclusion that if a guy like chip cannot win and it's that much about money

that primaries are a farce and we need to go to state conventions and before you answer,

let me just assert this. Greg Abbott got 82% in the primary yet we all know if the Texas Republican

convention would choose the nominee and it wasn't even that top tee. It wasn't much of a tear

not tear nominee against him, but even the most kind of far-flung guy would win. He can't even

stand before the convention. Much less win a vote there. I have fallen down on this. I'd advocated

it, but I haven't come up with a way had a take it to the next level. Is this something that we can

look at? To switch to conventions? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I definitely think that conventions are the

way to go. The problem that you're talking about and the problem that we struggle with constantly

is the money. And switching to a convention means that you have to basically completely reform

the state parties which are captured by money. You have to completely overwhelm all of the money

to interest whether it's the business interest, the environmental, all that stuff. You've got to

overcome all of that in order to switch to a convention. So I'm absolutely on board with it,

but it's the same problem in all of our fights, which is that all of the money is on the other side

and we've got to figure out a way to combat that. And the only solution we have is that we have to

just be loud enough where people can't ignore us. I absolutely 100% believe that Texas can transform

itself with chip getting elected as AG. There isn't a more important AG race in the country

than getting chip elected. And if he wins, not only will Texas improve, but it will

people will follow chip and people will start to run for office who wouldn't otherwise do it

because they see some hope. And if if chip wins, then we can start taking over the legislature,

then we can start running candidates for governor for US Senate for Congress. And they will be able

to win because they're able to break through the noise. So I absolutely hope chip can win.

Run-offs are funny things. You can get second place in the primary, but then win the run-off,

and that's where chip's at. And I think he can do it. But man, it's the most important race in the

country. But again, it's all about the money, like you said, that they use the money from the

special interests who know they're going to do A, but they use the money to run on B,

what the conservative voters want to hear. And it's very hard to break through that.

The thing is that some state parties are dumb, but the Texas Republican Convention again,

I mean, they're with us. You're saying what, it's the party leadership structure that would

need to change the rules? Well, I'm not a lawyer, so I can't speak too intelligently about this,

but the Republican party is a private entity. It is not a public entity. So private entities can

create their own rules on how they elect their leaders. So there is a case law that says,

if the Texas Republican party wanted to switch entirely to conventions, they could. And just like

in every other state, Utah used to have a pretty good convention. Iowa, North Dakota, they,

Virginia, they can do these conventions, but they get captured by the money that the state will

give them in order to run primaries. And so it's a, it's a big nasty cobweb of stuff,

but there should be no government interference in how a private entity chooses its leaders.

You have no right to a primary. This was the progressive era. Heritage had a great article

about this years ago as a progressive era reform. You know, the bottom line is conventions aren't

perfect. There is no perfect process, but you look at Utah where the, you know, the Cox one,

two to one in the primary, but he lost two to one in the convention from, you know, a pretty low

level challenger. And if we, if we had conventions A, we would have amazing recruitment B, even if

they won, but the reelect. So throughout their tenure, here's the difference. It would be known,

you could run whatever ads you want to millions of people, what a conservative you are,

if you screw the activists will know you're done. So either they're not, they wouldn't get elected

or if they are, they'd be held in check and they'd have to vote with us. I really think this is

something worth fighting for. Two quick things before we go. Do you agree with my contention

that some of our friends, I think sometimes view this as a litmus test of how conservative you are.

And that term has kind of been bastardized. A lot of people are corrupt, but a lot of people are,

they go to Bible study with you and they're, I think they're well-intentioned, they're decent.

To me, the difference between dissantists and everyone else is, is it that he's more conservative?

Certain extent, he's willing to punch through a special interest and put individual liberty,

individual dignity, land ownership, quality of life. That's a conserving our way of life

into tality, the whole of people, quality of life of crime. He talks about all these issues over

parochial special interest economic development. I'm seeing in general, that's the central argument

that your members in South Carolina and like Jim Shaw and Oklahoma are having with the Republicans.

Yeah, I think, I think there are a lot more conservatives in elected office than we think.

What separates them from truly courageous people is political courage to what you spoke of with

dissantists is that it's one thing to believe in some conservative value. It's another

for how hard you're going to fight and how long you're going to carry the battle through.

I kind of think of it as the mirror test, which is, can you wake up in the morning and look

yourself in the mirror and say you did everything you could in order to fight for some conservative

priority? I think dissantists look at himself in the mirror and say, yes. I think a lot of conservatives

look in the mirror and say no, but they make an excuse to say, well, we'll fight again another day.

That is political courage is the thing that separates the men from the boys and that is the

crux of the state freedom caucuses. When a lot of people ask, you know, I had a conversation,

I can't remember, there's this guy running, it must have been for Congress, for Congress,

and I texted a friend like, what do you think of him? It seems pretty decent because it seems

a good conservative. Oh, is he joining the freedom caucus? Oh, no way. Oh, okay. See, meaning

there are people, they're not frauds. And there's a lot of people, a lot of people like Daniel,

what's your problem with him? Like, look, I don't have a problem with him. But if the status quo

pursuant to this hour long conversation is that we have such an infinitesimal percentage of

fighters in the right of red states, you're not going to change the game with a non-freedom caucus

guy very rarely unless he has kind of, you know, his own eclectic reasons for not joining.

But the point is you're not going to change anything. If you had a freedom caucus majority

and you had some of these guys, they'll go along with it. They're decent, they're, they're,

they're decent, live biblical lives and I don't have a problem with them. They're not game changers

when we're behind and we need to change the game. The, the best quote I think in politics is by

Democrat of all people, John Dingell, he was like in the US House here like 50 years and I think

his wife is still in office. He has a great quote where he said, I'll let you write the substance

and I'll write the procedure and I'll screw you every time. And what he meant is you can write

whatever bill you want. If you want to cut taxes down to zero, that's fine. But I'm in charge of

how that bill proceeds through the process. And I will beat you every time because I'll either

dump it into a committee that will kill it or I'll write the rules on how it's debated on

the floor and I'll kill it. And what we try to educate lawmakers on is if you play by the rules

that the swamp controls, you're going to get screwed every time. And what that means is that

like your example where there was this great conservative who didn't want to join the House

Freedom Caucus, whoever that person is, they're going to Congress and they're going to play by

the rules. And they're going to be very conservative, but they're going to lose every single time

because they're not willing to pick fights with the leadership. And that is the, the, if you can

point to anything, that is the difference between a Freedom Caucus lawmaker and a conservative lawmaker

is that we reject the way that the swamp controls the process of legislating.

And that if there's one thing you guys take away from this when you go to your ballots,

which is very tough, local state. It's even hard running for Congress. They often don't have

big track records. If it's not statewide office, even then sometimes they don't. And people,

I think some conservatives are conservative in all the wrong ways. They like conserving the same

incumbents or people. And if you don't have a rap sheet of, okay, you voted for gay marriage,

you voted for Amnesty, you voted for a transgenderism. Well, I don't see a reason to tell us

to now, but no, if we're not winning and we need to win, they're status quo people. They're not

going to fight the special interests and they're not going to fight the party and all these people

in the abstract. If you asked them before the game pre-game show, does this the GOP week?

No, then it's like, look, I'm concerned, but I want to be productive. Like, you know,

what do you want me to be? Be one of these lunatics? Well, then what are you doing? And this is

what we see all too often. You'll know it when you see it if it's one of those members. And this

is a good lippness test. If you're not going to join a Freedom Caucus and there's not some really

eclectic reason that you know why he's not, you show that there's... That's your answer.

That's your answer. It's a reason for me. Okay, two minutes. We're over an hour and I'm

I appreciate your time. I got to get this out. Personal conduct. This is something that is really

bothering me. The Republican party is not just the fact that it goes on with special interests,

but probably part and parcel is they've lost their soul. You know, I remember when the

adultery stuff started and it was like a big thing to start with the Democrats, but Republicans

didn't tolerate it. Then it started with the Republicans. And now it's like a resume enhancer.

I mean, it's rampant, rancid. Never before have we had a party that talked about Christ's

King and Christianity and Christian nationalism. We have that more than ever. Yet never before have

we had such a plethora of members that are just a bunch of freaking degenerates. I'm just... I mean,

you know what I'm talking about. It's rampant. It's worse than we even know. Is there a way that

you're going to start with the culture of the Freedom Caucus to start making it clear

that look, if you're going through problems of like you're doing the homosexual stuff,

you're doing the adultery stuff or whatever that is, we're not here to judge you,

but when we're trying to promote and conserve biblical family values, could you maybe sit this

one out and not try to represent us? I guess what I would say there is that this is a problem

that you're never going to get rid of. You can try to minimize it, but imagine it from a first-time

lawmaker's perspective, which is they were making $30,000 a year, you know, whether on food stamps

or they're buying choice meat at the grocery store or they're barely skimping by,

and then they get elected to Congress and they're making $200,000 and they're ordering off the

wine menu. That's intoxicating to everybody. Nobody's immune to that. Now, once you start engaging in

that sort of behavior, you will do whatever it takes to maintain that position of ordering off

the wine list and all of the behavior that comes with it that is now in front of you all the time,

it tempts you in ways that if you're deep in your faith and you are morally grounded and you have

a strong family back home, you can withstand that, but it's all too intoxicating to way too many

people. And it's not just the $200,000 paycheck, it's the big paychecks that come later when you

leave office and you become a lobbyist or you advance to run for higher office. There are all

these temptations that are confronted you and it's becoming worse and worse. And I think it's just

decades of declining value in the things that we believe in. And so just, I believe, again,

not to talk my own book, but I do believe that the Freedom Caucus members, they're the ones that

are grounded most at home, most at church and most in the conservative values that they talk about.

And so it's just a fact of politics. We're in a sleazy business and it's going to happen. We

just got to minimize it. But certainly when you see it coming from the get go and you know it's

there before the election, it's got to be a factor in a primary. Just like, you know, you're right.

You know what I mean? Like you support green energy land grabs. You should be presented on grata.

If you have a guy that, I mean, again, we could debate

theologically and logistically and practically what you do when you have an R and a D. And

I'm not getting involved in it. I'm just saying it's begun to the point. It's not even a factor in

primaries. It's not even any, we just don't care. And I don't think God's going to smile upon

a movement that embraces that and, you know, theologically, but also practically to your point,

typically if you're kind of doing that stuff, you know, that you're not going to give into the

temptation of special interests and to our point, probably not going to happen. There's always

exceptions to that. But in general, we need to move away from that. Andy, thanks so much for indulging

my hard-hitting curveballs there. Thanks for what you do. Again, state freedom caucus. What's the

website? Stay freedom caucus dot org. You can also get catch me on X. I'm at Andy Roth. And we

also have a new podcast called Freedom Caucus unfiltered. So check that out. Awesome. Freedom Caucus

unfiltered. Yeah. We'll put a link to that. Thanks so much. Andy. This was absolutely terrific.

Good luck on the primaries. And we'll speak soon. And folks, we are way over time. But, you know,

he's just one of my favorite people alive that he, you know, he could literally say he tried.

He's he was working on primaries before me. He tried. He did everything he could federally.

And then he realized wasn't working going to the state. If every NGO think tanky organization

influencer would be like Andy Roth, we would have a different voter base. Don't tell me the people

are inherently well, yeah, of course, the people are inherently the problem. They don't know all this

stuff. The problem is look in the mirror of your favorite conservative influencer. Go down

that roster of the TP USA speaker's list. And then go to Andy Roth. You'll see the difference

until tomorrow. That's just the way it is.