The Golden Age of Irish Smuggling

0:00It was basically like online shopping. They were prepared to fight it out with the authorities and the beaches. Finn Dwyer is organizing a Smuggling Run next Saturday. Hello and welcome to the Irish History podcast. My name is Finn Dwyer and sadly it's not true. I'm not organizing a Smuggling Run next Saturday but this episode explores the golden age of smuggling in Ireland. Now smuggling is not something I'd ever really have thought about in relation to Irish history but a few months back I interviewed James Daharty, my guest in today's show, but then we were talking about the German plans to invade Ireland in World War II and at the end of the conversation James mentioned casually that he was doing research on this topic of smuggling in Ireland and I asked him to come back on the show and talk to me about this. So last week James and I met up on Tramor Beach on the South Coast.

1:03Today Tramor is a holiday destination, the fun fair was being taken down for the winter behind us as James shared his research with me and how Tramor Bay was one of the smuggling hot spots in Ireland back in the 18th century. Now to be honest the history of smuggling that he shared is not what I ever would have imagined. I guess there's all the daring do we would expect with this but in many ways it was a business driven by the wider economy. A lot of these people were in many ways as James says, pretty savvy businessmen and perhaps the most surprising thing of all for me was the way it was organized because smuggling could often be a community enterprise. It's very very different from the way I would have imagined far more important to the economy in the past than I would have thought and a fascinating part of Irish history. Indeed towards the end of the interview James and I brought an outer discussion to talk about why smuggling and indeed more generally maritime history doesn't feature more in the history of Ireland.

2:04Now before we start I would properly introduce James as you might remember from our last conversation he's a historian based here in Wardford with interests in military history and the history of smuggling in Ireland in the 18th and 19th century. And finally before we head off to see I want to flag that the supporters tour is coming up on Saturday the 26th of September. I mentioned this in a few episodes now but basically supporters of the show on Patreon and Acast plus are going to join me as we head into the Wichro Mountains to explore thousands of years of history. Now supporters have first dibs so if you're a supporter of the show and listening to this and want to come along please get in touch and let me know as I say there's a few spots left and if the boss isn't full by next week I will open it up to everyone else. So hopefully we'll meet up in real life on September the 26th for us going to be a great day out. Sound on this episode is by Kate only. Smuggling is one of those words that conjures up imagery from all across the world but can

3:16you explain to listeners what were people smuggling in and out of Ireland in the 18th and 19th century and what was driving us because as we want to see it was a pretty big industry at the time. Yeah definitely Finn it was a huge industry I think. We underestimate exactly how important and how big an industry was. The figure is very but they say one tour of all luxury goods in Ireland in that time period were brought in. Elicidly are smuggling into the country. So why was this happening and what drove us? As far as you go back to the history of taxation the minors, man, invent, attack, someone will strive to avoid us. That's really it's a base human instinct that if I impose a levy, a tariff attacks or if I may trade so many difficult for our people where its expenses are illegal difficulties other people will then go out of their way to avoid us and profit boys. So when you look at smuggling really what you see is the movement of goods no they can be contrabanded what we think today like drugs etc but quite often they were common

4:18everyday goods. I watch your dealings you're moving them from one jurisdiction from another not often change based on where the profits we had based around taxation etc. And in the early days then what are they bringing in and out of Ireland? Is it in the inter Ireland or is it out of Ireland? It's in the early days a lot of us actually leave in Ireland and that is based on British I try English I should say in the early days economic policy. They've schooled a tour in the 17th century and 18th century as an economic theory called mercantilism. Mercantilism basically states and believes that imports are bad and exports are good. So the English home countries are in home counties they always want to send their goods else and they don't want to take in other goods so they invent obstacles that can be taxation it can also be tariffs and it can also be legal stipulations. So you see laws passed against things like wool exports out of Ireland the woolenacks when you read the woolenacks some of them are quite humorous they stated if you're

5:20to be buried in England you're not allowed to be buried in an Irish woolen shroud so a bit of patriotism thrown in there. So they're just basically trying to undermine the market? Yeah and they make it difficult they pass these laws they can all like you have to be buried in an English woolen shroud and that is basically to encourage their wool producers. Then they pass the salt acts which taxes salt to manufacture. The salt acts immediately back for Arizona because it makes the kind of salt and manufacture of fish financially impossible in large parts of the English coast. It makes on implied a huge portion of English fishermen overnight. So these are men that have boats they've access to the sea they have knowledge they've lots of revenue so what did they do? They turn into smugglers free traders. When we're talking about Irish smuggling or smuggling in and out of Ireland it's not just people on the Irish coast but it's people from the coast of England coming here as well. Yeah what you see really is the development of like organized networks and it starts off

6:21with the very kind of a commodity based off like wool and salt. And what you see what happens is they develop these build up contacts they start sending wool from direct from Ireland divide in England into France and when they're in France they make contacts they network as what we call it today. And later on the focus of smuggling shifts because huge tariffs and taxes are placed on luxury goods in Ireland and England spirits going to tobacco etc and they are higher taxation but they're also easier lower volume to smuggle. Yeah because just listening to them thinking of people's smuggling wool and salt it's not the type of thing your shift on and off a shift easily. I would have thought wool in particular is like you know it's both volumes. Yeah in terms of getting it onto ships it also gets west. Yeah it takes on a lot of ways. So why so much money to be made in those early days when they're moving those big heavy products? There was money to be made and the part for it was the money to be made but also part

7:24for it was necessity. You basically had a situation where Irish producers on these commodities were forced into smuggling because they had no kind of they had no economic alternative. But as you said commodity-based smuggling like their salts in your wools, big heavy bulky items and it doesn't take it you know long for people to figure out you know I can smuggle a bail of tobacco which is the same size as a bail of wool and the profits are exponentially more in tobacco tea brandy and the taxes are based on luxury goods so you see things like lace, playing cards also been smuggling them. So luxury high end which has a ready market and there's all these kind of anecdotal tales of salons and nice houses you know using smuggle tea and brandy and known that is contraband goods. So today we think of legal substances mainly when it comes to smuggling not always but generally

8:24but back then it's not really legal substances it's basically the government drive smuggling by open the price and taxing different commodities. Exactly we see a kind of similar based policy today with the Irish government in recent years and it's been successful. The Irish government have pays huge duties on cigarettes. Sigarettes are a good example of that and not illegal by any means but for health reasons and etc. Irish government have placed huge taxation on cigarettes over the last 20-30 years, led to their market decline. But current studies show that one-tour of all cigarettes consumed in Ireland are brought into the country illegally. So what you see there is people have seen a gap in the market and because of the huge taxation there's profit to be made and that's what was happening in the 17th and 18th century with tobacco. Some of the taxes were huge up to 100% on some items so you could say it to somewhere like Dunkirk in France, fill your ship with tea and a mixture of goods basically a shopping

9:28list of goods, sail over to Ireland and various ports that are based on the coast drop off your goods and profits are huge. And we were talking just before we started to record and you were kind of describing what were known as the smuggling runs and the organisation of these is fascinating because it's kind of democratic. It's not the swastpokling pirate who's doing this. It's actually wholesale communities that invest essentially in a smuggling operation. Yeah well there's a report in the 1820s and a base he stated that in times of smuggling run parts of the Saudis course where we are today, places like Balconic Hall and Don Maurice and Tramore, the whole community ran out of cash and what I mean but that is in a week or two before the run literally snorers the loan. Yeah smuggling the loan literally there was no money in the society. Every single spare, shilling and pens had been invested by members of the community. And they placed advertisements and shops and people reported this to their shocked endoblin.

10:29You know smuggling run, finned wire is organising, smuggling run next Saturday and people could invest in this. Now it is democratic but also guarantees privacy. Because you're buying in support from the community. Yeah you're kind of literally, it's like the GAA club draw you see today in a way. Everyone has a little part in it. The community is invested in it, everyone in the community wants to see it successful. It's a no one's interest to report it to the authorities. And also what you solve is a huge manpower problem because you arrive into Tramore Bay in your smuggling corner with tons of loose bales of tobacco and tea and you just say right you know where's your receipt, queue up, take your bill tobacco and away you go. You don't need a hundred men's stand and void on loaded ship because the people in the community have done that far here. And it was, did smugglers in Ireland, I think they learned lessons from this big smuggling gangs in England. The smuggling gangs in England dealt with the authorities by the mid-force, with force

11:32and that eventually led to their downfall. They were prepared to fight it out with the authorities on beaches and that was never going to succeed in long term. And that brings down the whole wish of the British crown against you. Whereas if you have the community buoyant and support into a more subtle, less obvious and as I said it solves the logistic problems. That must have risked though at times, in perversing an entire community. Then if you're the ship sinks, if, whatever happens, something goes wrong and that ship doesn't come in but the goods you've got an entire community then potentially at risk. Yeah, and that happens. Like today we're sitting in Tramore, it's a cloudy day, it's a bit of a wind. Yeah. And a team with smuggling runs especially as the official response to smuggling grew. Smugglers tended to favour bad weather and the reason they favoured bad weather is the revenue men who went to sea or colonone as fair-wether sailors and they wouldn't sail unless the conditions were good. So bad long winter nights, bad weather, that was smuggling.

12:35Smugglers. But the consequence to that and the difficulties around your coastline, the wilds occasion ships last and that would as you said in parvish whole communities, temporarily, all your organise the next smuggling. And we're at risk I suppose so far of almost presenting our glorifying smuggling. Was it a victimless crime? We're talking about a community cobbling together and some of those people would be very poor. They go over to France, they bite or tobacco, whatever it is, bring it back, sell it on and no one's hurt. Is that an accurate depiction of what it was like? Yes and no, there tend to be very little violence on shore. There was isolated instances of violence and smugglers land the goods and were intercepted by the authorities. But on the high seas when they met English revenue ships, when they met forces at a crown, they were more than happy to fight it out. And when you read of smuggling ships that are captured and one of my favourites accounts was one that was sold at auction because I should call the active.

13:37It lists the cannon they were carrying. She melons six eight pound cannon, tree swiveve guns. You read accounts of smugglers been armed with blonde roboses and mosquets. And on the high seas no one that potentially they could be sunk or captured. They would fight it out. But generally on land they had the connivance and the cooperation to a certain extent of the local population. So it was more about clandestine land than the goods. But you can't hide on the open water. Often your only reply or answer is the photo dose. Obviously this is costing ultimately the British state money or the English or British state in 19th century. It's costing money. They're bringing in stuff that's not being taxed. It produces a state reaction to the smuggling, I guess initially it's haphazard, but is there an organized force that go out and try and stop this? Yeah and I suppose part of it is proved. Smugglers, the majority attention of the media, it was really I suppose a flow in the

14:37argument of the authorities and it was really, it was a level of disrespect to the authorities. So they didn't like this whole trade of smuggling but also there was a huge economic cost to it. So yeah towards kind of 1820s around that time period the official responses had grown. And you see a establishment in Ireland of the Coast Guard. The Coast Guard was led by a man called James Dumbrain who was a genius, a very good, a very capable organizer. And he established a ring of Coast Guard stations around the country. They became embedded in the local community and the whole history of the Coast Guard and even the forces law in Ireland are probably a topic for another day. But they're embedding in the community really leads to a massive decline in smuggling. They become the eyes of the authority and the Coast. And I suppose it is worth saying though as well like a lot of what we're talking about is a coastal community maybe people have the poor side of things but the stuff they're

15:37bringing in goes filter up true society ultimate yes we're talking about luxury goods. If you're in Tramore you've invested in the smuggling run you're not doing that so you can keep it at home you've got to sell it on. So a lot of this stuff ends up in the houses of the Netherlands and the Paris and the Leachers most certainly and often there's smuggled and gin etc had a better reputation than legitimately bought gin was of higher quality. So yeah the market far a lot of if you see a typical smuggler he might have you know a hundred bales tobacco but he'd also have a consignment of lease who's using the lease ladies and society playing cards were taxed because the view was only wealthy people which would gamble the you know that's how the top process so playing cards lease that was all destined for a higher in brandy gin etc and what happened basis would pass up the line from it would go from irrepetible dealers on the coast and it would be basically

16:37traded and handed from good to good on became socially acceptable but at a cheap average and you've talked about the reaction to the coast guard you know essentially the British state can't put down on this activity what happened you're there see the ship they take the cargo do they take the ship or yeah the okay these ships were seized revenue cutters boats at sea would take them the occasion time it did happen that's most likely we took on the high seas and there was an account of a smuggling ship from Garnsey that was seized and was sold at auction and war for the 1824 it was a ship called the active now the active was actually taken captured in soil twice because what happened was this owners turned up on the keys award for them just bought it back and went back to business and they were a very well-known firm of smugglers from Garnsey called a prelude waters they came over no one else wanted a boyish they bid honest they were successful our in two weeks was back in business so even if

17:40they didn't manage to capture his ship the crew would be imprisoned you know you have to pay a fine the owners are just paid a fine the guys were let out if the ship was seized they'd buy it back and they just go back to business and it's really did the clean and smuggling doesn't happen because of that type of action it happens because the change economic taught open up a free market taxes come down and then you see like the coast guard making them more difficult more difficult they should say for people to land goods so it's really if you call it the golden age of smuggling around Ireland is really as a result of British economic policy we have the idea of doctors and divers it's kind of instinctively in these people but they're really only exploiting a gap in the market and then as you know they say fair economics and all that come in it's just not there for them anymore they move on is it yeah exactly so the whole history of smuggling is basically on a very big level fueled by warfare and taxation you know from 1600s on

18:44English empire is a continuously layer British empire is continuously a war that needs to be paid for how would you pay for it taxes tariffs trade and as these taxes are increasing you create this gap in the market the smugglers come in and the school of taught Adam Smith's economic taught becomes more popular and the free market starts to open up taxation comes down and the money is just not there the smugglers don't go away they just act in different things and people are still smuggling but it becomes more covert a little bit more sneaky but the golden days and the big runs goes just because the money is not in it as you said earlier on you could lose the shipping and storm now if you're making a hundred two hundred three hundred percent on a profit if you lose the hardship is no big deal but when your profits are tumbling down if it's a dangerous trade to be in and they just move on to other things we're talking here in Chamorro Bay obviously it

19:47faces onto the south coast out to the continent but it's not just limited to this part of Ireland smuggling is an island-wide enterprise around the course of Dublin is it a big issue there or you know I'm just saying it the capital has obviously a big market yeah and smugglers exploit that so ideally you know what you want is to be close to your big market and access to the sea russian county Dublin becomes a hotspot of smuggling I wanted to force infamous as famous whatever you want to call them characters come out of Russia is a man called Luke Ryan Luke Ryan was a smuggler and he ends up turning private here and you know if ever you look for an idea to make a film Luke Ryan's life he fought as a lace in private here comproared for the Americans for the English he was involved in French Eradon Kirk and he was a real kind larger life figure but he had started off his life as a smuggler and had captured in one particular

20:47authority as a privateer captured over torquety ships and ransoned them back but they didn't debt our his prison so yeah russian county Dublin was not a smuggler hotspot and one interest when it was difficulty in researching smuggling and like any type of crime is that you never hear of successful criminals they're the ones who just did away but one report they did find was from a smuggler who was caught and he turned crowns evidence in England and someone asked them to write down what was the typical smuggling wrong was and he detailed how he sailed from Dunkirk and he knows all the spots along the Irish coast that he visits so he said oh a warfart finned lawyer tobacco and he mentions going up the coast and dropping off a little base so re-gives an idea of it was basically like online shopping and this guy had a delivery say you would your super value or a test go today he had a ship full of goods and he had all the names he knew where to go along the coast how he did it was fascinating and he had like he did worked out like a system of direction you know torty leagues north the brownstone head and he had names and cord words of people

21:53I want to film that document as fascinating because one of the men mentioned was in a pace called clock our head right up the coast and when I looked into it it was always a kind of local legend that the man mentioned was a smuggler and that just confirmed it so yeah he had a whole kind of a shopper list and who to ask for and how to get that so it was very complicated very developed system but a equal opportunity they say I'll do it everywhere if the money was raised and in Ireland I think it's fair to say Irish history focuses on the rebel you know I think that's a part of our history we tend to bring to the surface but smuggler isn't necessarily part of that story what is that are like you kind of you know yeah it's it's a hard one to research I come from maritime background so I have an interest there's I've never met anyone else in Ireland who's interested in history of smuggling it is difficult one to research there's not a lot of physical evidence and you find scraps of information here and there that's part of it and also big part of I think is it never was glamorous and this happens in England yeah you know we've

22:54read about our heard about stories like Jamaica in and moon fleets and poldark and these are all these like late Victorian kind of early 1900s stories about smuggling so it has a glamour effect and that they've created a tourist industry around it and places that corn was yeah yeah we just never had that and when you start looking into it you find a little bits of evidence around the the countryside of that history but yeah it just never never comes into the Irish psyche never becomes into the popular Irish imagination yeah just we'll never glamour as I was in England Damien she is always says that if something doesn't fit into the development of the movement for independence we're not particularly interested in terms of Irish history I think a lot of what you've talked about in the episode is very much communities with one foot in Ireland but one foot in France in England are potentially English people going to France to come in here it's an international story it's a story to see as much as it is and when you come when you come from an maritime

23:55background I mean you come when you grow places like this but you see if I could impart one little kind of piece of knowledge to anyone who likes history modern history and modern society we think in a linear fashion you know if you look at the fastest way to get from war for the Dublin you look at a straight line down the motorway but in the 17th 18th century the fastest way to get from pint date to pint B was often by sea I was often a circuit this route these guys were over and back across the channel like nobody's business you know they would think not enough sailing to donkirk loading a car or off tobacco and sailing back in the dead of night was being chased by revenue now today if you said to someone I'm gonna buy a yacht and sail to donkirk you probably be arrested and they probably think you're crazy but they flinched across the channel and over to England and and to France quite regularly and they basically that channel and that sea was their playground yeah I have to say even since I moved to wardford whatever four or five years ago you do get a different

24:57sense of history and even in order to leave it your driving along the coast or whatever compared to like the Kenny or even Dublin you see a lot of you know monuments to shipwrecks or whatever it is but even a lot of the names and then won't necessarily always be Irish and I think in the premier at the moment it's a more east there's a couple of monuments there even to a German submarine sank in the first world war but again it's that kind of idea of a shared history of the sea and then obviously there's the history of land but there's there's they don't necessarily always overlap no and it's it's a small part for a history but well we're sitting here now on Tramor Bay the most famous shipwreck and the sailors over tells in shipwrecks on the Irish coastland in this area it was a ship called the Seahorse there's a large monument to the Seahorse just up here on the cliff overlooking us the old Coast Guard stations again looking at the metal man built as a warning to sailors on my right hand side and the Seahorse these were men who fought all the way to Napoleon in conflict or coming back to Garrison in Ireland and got wrecked in Tramor Bay in bad weather

26:01and it's only really when you go to sea and you look back at Tramor you realize it looks like the entrance to Walford however and that's why they sail in here in times of distress and when you realize they're mistaken it's too late but when you look at these names on the monument and the memorial Irishmen the Frenchmen their Germans and I think all Irish history and all Irish society especially in Walford and port cities was much more cosmopolitan and varied and colorful than we might give a credifier yeah no death and theater even like you're you research like the history of coffee somewhere like Walford is one of the first places to have a coffee shop because obviously it's been imported you know and it lands in places like Walford or be a Dublin but like it's the history places like this is very very different compared to well coming from North again you know there's a very different feeling there's a great tour guide here on Walford and he was a Jack Bortian he was refers to the sea they said like they were like the you know the motorways of the 17th and 18th

27:01century and your ships say he goes back to the Viking langships he calls them you know the Ford the transit van of Vikings so you know so yeah we just don't get a sense it out anymore you're looking out and Schmore Bay today there's no ships on the sea but you have to imagine a hundred two hundred years ago big toilets ships coming and going yeah yeah that's amazing James thanks very much for that that was a fascinating conversation definitely an aspect of Irish history I'd never really given a thought for until you mentioned it at the last episode we did which was on Operation Green I'd recommend checking that out that's a really great conversation with the German plans to invade Ireland in the Second World War but James thanks a million no problem if anyone is a pleasure and I just like to remind people of Ion gets the ideas about smoking from his podcast don't let me in for a I can't recommend it as a career anymore before I sign off there is one other update that I want to share with you so my series on the Magdalene Andres which has been in the works for the best part of two years

28:03is now nearly complete we're looking at an October launch for that so don't forget if you're not subscribed to the show hit that subscribe button to make sure you get that when it drops finally I also want to thank James for his time that was a really great chat until next time Sloan you you