The Greatest Fraud in Immigration History - Cruelty is the Point and Grift is the Business Model

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This is the John Fuglesang Podcast.

It's serious XM progress.

I'm John Fuglesang.

Good evening, and welcome to the Love Fest.

That is, tell me everything.

Chris Houself is the boss.

He's our executive producer.

Runs this show out of the beautiful South.

Somebody Thea Harper has too much good sense

to get involved in verbal interplay with us

on the air.

She runs this thing at a Brooklyn.

I come to you from Manhattan, and I hope you had a great Thursday.

We're so close.

It's always better by Thursday.

We have a great show plan for you tonight.

We're going to be joined by the creators

of the Building A podcast, Hands Charles and Manolek Lemumba.

Now this refers to a terrific new podcast

that's been produced by Ron Howard and Brian Grazer

about the student-led takeover in 1969 at Morehouse College,

where a bunch of students, one of whom was Samuel L. Jackson,

took the board of trustee members hostage,

one of whom was Martin Luther King Senior.

It was a huge moment in the modern ear of student protests

and the podcast explores how the protest climate

of the 60s and 70s reverberates today,

and how it doesn't reverberate today.

And hour number three, we're keeping it open just for your calls.

Let's make sense of the week.

My book is called Separation of Church and Hate.

Please check it out and winner of the audio word

for best non-fiction audio book.

So thank you for that.

Working on the follow-up right now.

I also have a sub-stack.

I hope you'll read it.

We say hello to all of our evil army of the night,

everyone who listens live.

Please call us 866-997-Grid.

Hello to everybody who's a day walker,

all y'all who listen, non-demand,

on the app, on the People Saying Podcast.

We love you just as much, even though you won't stay up late

with we few, we happy few, we band of brothers and sisters.

Let's make some sense of it, shall we?

Donald Trump told reporters he is not sending troops anywhere

in Iran and then said if he was,

he wouldn't tell the press because he hates them.

And while he says this,

National Defense Insiders in DC report,

the DOD is very close to deploying thousands

and thousands of real live human soldiers to the region

to take and hold and presumably defend Iranian territory

near the Strait of Hormuz.

And by defend, I mean occupy.

And by occupy, I mean,

you don't want us to be popular around there, do you?

The Pentagon has now asked Congress for $200 billion more

in supplemental war funds.

Remember when Elon Musk was firing everyone

who had a government job to save you money?

$200 billion, they're spending a billion a day,

maybe $2 billion a day, they want $200 billion more.

In the midst of this, the FDA has withdrawn

there a 2015 regulation that forbids teenagers

from using tanning beds.

Bronze away, kids.

Old enough for a phone is old enough for a melanoma.

During a meeting with the Prime Minister of Japan, Donald Trump

had to show how stupid he is and he made a joke about Pearl Harbor

while explaining to the journalists

why we didn't tell any of our allies

that we were about to start a war with Iran.

This has got to be heard to be believed,

to hear Tim Poole come out today and say how

effing embarrassing it is.

Donald Trump's lies.

Tim, we were telling you 10 years ago, welcome to the woke.

Why didn't you tell us allies in Europe and Asia

like Japan about the war before attacking Iran?

So we are very confused about we Japanese.

Well, one thing you don't want to signal too much,

you know, when we go in,

we went in very hard and we didn't tell anybody about it

because we wanted surprise.

Who knows better about surprise than Japan?

Why didn't you tell me about Pearl Harbor, okay?

Right?

You say, you believe in surprise?

I think much more so than us.

And we had a surprise and we did.

What?

And because of that surprise, we knocked out the first two days,

we probably knocked out 50% of what we,

and much more than we anticipated.

They weren't obliterated.

So if I go and tell everybody about it,

there's no longer surprise.

All right, you get the idea.

He's deeply stupid.

You understand?

I, you listen to progress.

You all already knew he was stupid.

Let's get to the evil part.

Because according to the Kato Institute,

and let me stress, the Kato Institute

is not exactly a group known for hugging immigrants, right?

Donald Trump and his administration may have pulled off

what the Kato Institute, the libertarian brothers

and sisters, what they are calling the largest fraud

in the history of the US immigration system.

Not fraud by immigrants, fraud against them,

which is impressive.

Because usually when this country scams immigrants,

we just, you know, at least we give them a pamphlet,

maybe a flag pin.

But have you heard about this story?

It kind of got overshadowed today

by the fact that your gas is about to cost more

than your car did.

But this is next level.

This is pay me to get into America.

Oh, and you can't come in.

According to this report, again, the Kato Institute,

the administration led by Trump,

led by Marco Rubio and Christie Nome,

allegedly collected 1.3 billion dollars

in visa and immigration fees.

From people, they had already decided

would be banned from entering the country.

Yeah, this is not immigration policy.

This is like a cover charge to a club

that you're already thrown out of.

Welcome to America.

That'll be $2,500.

Also, you're not getting in.

Also, no refunds.

God bless.

Two million applicants, think about this.

90 countries, hundreds of thousands

of people fleeing economic collapse

or political repression or actual danger of people

from Cuba, people from Venezuela, people from Haiti.

The message they got was, hey, good, good news.

We've successfully processed your payment.

Not your application.

Just your payment.

And here's the part that feels, oh, I mean illegal,

even for a terrible movie like the one we're living through

because according to the report from the Kato Institute,

the State Department staff were allegedly told

not to inform the applicants that they had no chance

of approval because that would be pre adjudication.

Take their money, take their money,

but don't tell them they have no chance of approval.

Of course, we wouldn't want to pre-judge a process

that's already been pre-rigged.

That would be unethical.

Let's talk about the numbers here.

Nearly 543 million from people in Cuba applying to live here.

And they took the money, knowing they wouldn't let them in.

Over 138 million from Venezuelans applying to live here.

Trump and Rubio and Nome took the money.

Already knew they weren't gonna let them in.

Hundreds of millions more.

From other people who were never gonna be approved.

This isn't even bureaucracy.

You know what this is?

This is Trump University immigrant edition.

Think about the psychology.

These people are doing everything the right way, right?

They're trying to enter the country the way we say

you have to enter the country.

If you don't want to have ice dragging you by the hair

down your driveway, you fill out the forms,

you pay the fees, you wait in line, you pay the fees.

And then the system says back to them.

Thank you for respecting the law.

We're now gonna use that law to keep your goddamn money.

Stay out.

This is not coming from some lefty blog, friends.

This is the Cato Institute saying,

hey, this looks like the greatest fraud

in immigration history.

When the libertarians are complaining

about government corruption, dude.

What do I mean?

I mean, that's like having Andy Dick run your intervention.

You know, we thought we'd invite you here.

We're all worried about you.

No, why?

That's like Keith Richards makes you go to a meeting.

The libertarians think you, and I get it.

The cruelty is the point.

But the, the, the grift is the business.

That's what makes it different.

Not just cruelty.

It's monetized cruelty.

It's not enough to keep these poor people out.

You got to charge them for the privilege of being rejected.

That's the business model.

We've turned immigration into a mobile game.

And at the end, it's like you have run out of freedom.

You want to purchase more?

If these, if this is true from the Cato Institute,

this is not just corruption.

This is, this is really, this is a special kind of evil.

This is America telling the world,

hey, come to America where we don't just close the door

and your face will also charge you for knocking.

Okay, if you're wondering how a system that claims to be

about law and order looks like a Steve Baton

go funby scam with the border wall.

Guys, stop listening to anything these men say.

Start watching where the money goes.

Now, back to the war here.

I just want to play this clip because I've,

I've just about had it with, with, with Crusader

for the violent Christ, Pete Exeth.

Here, he's telling reporters today

in another unhinged press conference,

why the Pentagon wants $200 billion ASAP?

As far as $200 billion, I think that number could move,

obviously, it takes, it takes money to kill bad guys.

So we're going back to Congress and folks there to ensure

that we're properly funded for what's been done,

for what we may have to do in the future,

ensure that our ammunition is everything's refilled

and not just refilled, but above and beyond.

President Trump, as he said,

rebuilt the military in his first term,

didn't think he'd use it as dynamically

in his second buddy had.

So thank goodness he did that.

And investmentized, this is meant to say,

hey, we'll replace anything that was spent

and now that we're reviving our defense industrial base

and rebuilding the arsenal of freedom

and cutting deals like our great deputy secretaries here

is doing long lead times on exquisite,

we're blowing, we're going to be refilled faster

than anyone imagined.

Okay, and I think, I can't, I can't.

I'm old enough to remember this punk on Fox News going

after Trump had telling the truth about him.

But listen to this part here,

this is what made me stabby.

Here's where Pete also asks Americans

to pray for success in this holy war

to steal their oil and kill their civilians.

May Almighty God continue to bless our troops in this fight.

And again, to the American people, please pray for them.

Every day, on bend in knee, with your family.

What?

Your schools in your churches in the name of fucking fake.

You fucking fake.

This guy, the new Testament is toilet paper.

John, so yes, Chris, I think he's onto something.

I think not just once a day.

I think we should pray five times a day.

I think five times a day.

Five times a day.

Maybe maybe face direction, five times a day.

We should face where our soldiers are fighting.

We should face the direction of them.

And we should wherever we are.

Just stop what you're doing.

And we should get down on our knees and we should pray.

You're right.

We should all be Christians who should carry

a little, a little rug so they can do that five times a day.

Here's the thing.

You know who saved my sanity today?

Apparently there's a pope who has read the Jesus parts

of the Bible.

I know, I was stunned too.

I want to talk about Chicago Pope,

the deep dish pontiff, South Side Leo.

Now this guy actually knows the Jesus parts.

Not the smite your enemies parts.

Not the prosperity gospel meets real estate seminar,

Jesus of our friends over on a certain channel here.

I'm talking about the actual Jesus.

Sermon on the Mount Jesus.

Matthew 25, brown skinned Jewish Jesus.

The blessed are the peacemakers guy.

The guy that peaked headset.

That blaspheming little racist clot.

Claims to follow.

I'm not talking about James Taylor Rico.

I'm talking about Pope Leo.

This week, Hegseth was on TV earlier a couple of days ago

saying the war in Iran was protected by God.

Think about that.

Protected by these blaspheming bubbles.

The hour war where we're killing people is protected by God.

Which is kind of interesting to me

because the last time I checked the New Testament

at no point does Jesus say,

blessed are the drone strikes.

For they shall inherit the oil fields.

And Pope Leo shows up like the one guy

in the group project who did the reading.

And he said, do not invoke the name of God in choices of death.

Man, this guy needs to write metallurics.

He's following Jesus.

That's a bold strategy in a modern Christianity.

Leo is out there sounding like a red letter Bible.

The Pope said, and again, I'm not asking any of you

to believe anything in the Bible is literal fact.

And I'm not asking you to respect the Catholic institution.

They suck on women.

They suck on sexuality.

They're we birth control for God's sakes.

But Leo is out here actually talking like the Jesus

that Pete Hegg Seth pretends to follow.

War is not holy, he said, only peace is holy.

And Republicans are like, yeah,

but what if peace doesn't poll good and swing states?

I love this because Pope Leo didn't just say war was bad.

He said, basically, if you're a Christian leader

and you're starting wars,

you might want to go to confession.

Can you imagine?

Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned.

What did you do?

I invented a sovereign nation

and I call the God's will.

Oh, okay, well, crap.

That's gonna be more than three Hail Mary's kid.

And then, and this happened just in the last 24 hours.

This Pope went full Matthew 25.

Not the part politicians like to skip.

Not the thoughts and prayers, you know, edited remix.

The actual assignment, Matthew 25, feed the hungry care

for the sick, help the vulnerable.

Pope Leo comes out and says, health cannot be a luxury

for the few.

He came out and commanded wealthy nations

to provide health care to all of their citizens.

You understand the Pope is out here advocating.

Let me check my notes on it.

Jesus, you realize how radical that sounds?

In 2026, a religious leader says,

hey, maybe nations should take care of their sick people.

And half of our political class is like,

whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down their marks.

Pope Leo came out and literally said

that universal health care is a moral imperative.

Not optional, not a talking point, not a someday

we could do this, not a, let's have health savings

accounts, which is like a saving account

and the money you don't have.

You put in there in America.

We're like, well, we believe in miracles.

We just don't believe in good insurance.

People believe in a talking snake,

more than they believe in caring for the sick.

That's the disease and Christianity.

And here's my favorite part, because like the Vatican

is pretty much sub-tweeting world leaders now.

They didn't name names, but Cardinal Powerland basically

said, if you're invoking God to justify war,

maybe don't, which is Vatican polite speak for,

we see you, we read the Gospels, you did not bitch.

I paraphrase from the Latin.

So like, suddenly for the first time in a long time,

there's like this weird scoreboard, right?

You got Hegseth saying, God supports the war

and you have the Pope saying, God is peace.

I don't know about you.

I'm gonna score that one nothing for the guy in white

who read the Gospel of Matthew,

because you can feel it, right?

You see the way they hate Tala Rico?

We played a couple of these Christian nationalist closet case

preacher frauds last night, praying for him to die.

The Jesus talk makes some people deeply uncomfortable.

And I'm not saying that you have to believe in Jesus

as a divine miracle, anything.

I promise I'm not.

That's my book's all about you.

You don't have to believe any of it is literal fact

or the Jesus was the first great Jewish magician

or none of that, okay?

But the teachings of Jesus still have the power

to challenge authoritarian rule as harshly

as they did 2,000 years ago.

And it's making people, some people, very uncomfortable

because if you take the teachings of Jesus seriously,

not culturally, not politically, not selectively,

but actually seriously, you can't fucking bomb people

and call it holy.

You can't ignore the sick and call it moral.

You can't worship power and pretend it's faith.

This guy Leo is out there reminding the world

that Christianity is not about dominance

or hierarchy or winning.

It's about feeding people and healing people

and loving them.

And apparently now that is the most radical

leftist woke message on earth.

Because nothing scares authoritarian douchebags

more than a guy who's read the Bible saying,

hey, maybe we should do it, Jesus said.

And that's where we're at folks.

A pope quoting Christ is controversial,

but war is marketed as holy and healthcare

is debated like it's a luxury item.

And somewhere in the gospel of Matthew,

that brown skin, Jew, Jesus is like, guys,

I gave you one group project.

So give Leo credit man, in a world full of people

using God as a brand, he's using Jesus as a standard.

I'm not used to this in popes.

The last guy was pretty good on this too.

Maybe they'll realize Jesus treated women as equals,

but I can't hope for everything in one day.

But I'll tell you, a lot of people are very suddenly

realizing if you actually follow Jesus,

you can't follow Maga.

We want to know what you guys think.

We are at 866-997-4748.

We will be back with the co-creators of the podcast,

the A-Building from Imagine Entertainment

and your calls in just a moment.

This is progress.

When Donald Trump was inaugurated like all presidents,

he swore a note to preserve, protect,

and defend the Constitution.

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Subscribe to the oath in the office where every week

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I am so excited to have this conversation about protest

and about power.

And it's really about the moment young people decide

they've had enough.

In 1969, as you know, at Morehouse College,

a group of students did something amazing.

They took over the administration building

and they held members of the Board of Trustees hostage

for two days.

And among the students was a young Samuel L. Jackson

as legend has taught us among the hostages

was Martin Luther King senior.

And it wasn't chaos, it was strategy.

It was a protest that was principled with demands.

It was as they set a heist with purpose.

And that story is now the focus of the A building,

which is a gripping new documentary podcast

from Ron Howard and Brian Grazer over to imagine

an entertainment and I Heart podcast created by today's guests,

filmmakers and storytellers, mental echelomumba

and Hans Charles.

And this series, you have to get it in your queue right now

because it doesn't just revisit history,

like a lot of podcasts I like,

it asks a much bigger question,

which is, what is protest look like now

and does it still work?

It is such an honor to welcome Hans Charles

and mental echelomumba to serious XM.

Good evening gentlemen.

Good evening, thank you for having us.

Thank you for having some really excited to be here, John.

Big fan of yours.

Oh, thank you so much.

Bless you.

I'm so honored.

I love that you did this.

I love the podcast, but I love that you made it.

What was the moment that you guys realized

that the Morehouse lock-in wasn't just

like a historical anecdote,

but a story that really demanded a full series?

I went to Morehouse.

I'm a class of 98, that's the way

Morehouse men sort of identify themselves.

And this story was sort of lore.

It was something that you sort of heard around campus.

It was kind of like, you know,

I guess what people say in the military, scuttle butt.

And, you know, it's just like this thing

that you kind of heard.

There's lots of lore around Morehouse.

There's a building called Sail Hall,

which is one of the original lecture buildings.

And so sometimes students would go there

and they want to feel the spirit of, you know, ML King there.

Or, you know, reminisce about getting a lecture

from Dr. Benjamin Mays,

one of our illustrious presidents.

And it was just one of those stories

I was kicking about.

But when the time that men only can,

I kind of took it seriously,

was we were going to pitch something

we were having a general meeting.

And we had a list of things that we want to pitch.

And we felt like we needed something else.

We needed Doc.

And I said, you know, I'd been researching this thing.

I'd been like hearing more and more about this,

this thing at Morehouse.

And I mean, like I sort of personally heard about it,

but it wasn't anything serious.

And I kind of gave him like a elevator pitch

and a ride over to the executive's offices.

And then when we pitched it in the room is when,

I felt like we really kind of had a sense

of like how interesting this idea was.

And even in the car when I said it to me,

like he was like, really that happened?

And I was like, yeah, that like that happened.

That's something that really happened on campus.

And so that is kind of what started us

to take it seriously and to decide, you know,

this might be a story we want to share with the world.

And we originally wanted to make it as a documentary film,

I'm a documentary filmmaker.

And so that's the original proposal.

And I imagine had to have a brilliant idea

and said like, look, we think we can get this out

into the world as a podcast series.

And we think that'll give you the opportunity

to really delve in deep into some of the characters

that are part of this story.

I mean, Manelek, when you first heard

that students held trustees, including Dr. King's dad,

I mean, what did you think?

I've always loved this story

because it challenges so many of our assumptions

about a respectability politics and protest.

Yeah, 100%.

And it's one of those stories where,

and we talk about documentary filmmaking.

And I think any story in general,

where you find it's going to hold up what that happened

and that happened, right?

Whenever nonfiction, I think why it's so compelling

in general is that that truth is always much more

kind of just like stranger than fiction.

So the fact that you have Samuel Jackson,

who has been kind of the ultimate badass on screen

the last 40 years doing this most badass thing,

you go, well, that couldn't be possible, right?

But that has to be kind of an apocryphal story of legend

that had kind of been floating around.

And Hans is right, like we were this idea

we had kind of been toying with or thinking about

and we really developed it in the room.

Like ironically, on that pitch,

we had like three or four ideas we worked on for a year,

they all bond.

And then this one actually stuck.

This was the one that we walked out of with some legs.

And this was God, that was what, five years ago.

Five, six years ago, yeah.

I was before the pandemic, that this is how long

we've been living in this idea.

So in that time, think about how much the world has changed

even since then.

So the story was able to develop far beyond just that moment,

that moment really became like this symbol of a lot of things,

particularly where a black America was at that time

in the late 60s, where it would be in the 70s,

particularly after the assassination of Malcolm X

and Dr. King, this new rising of a more militant,

a more straightforward, a more, you know,

no holds barred approach to civil rights was on their rise in.

So we, and a big part of the story too,

especially in the first three or four episodes of the series,

we explore kind of the social, conservative nature

of historically black colleges.

So when you think of kind of the roaring 60s

when it came to the protest movement,

black college students were very active

when it came to protest and to resistance,

but the colleges themselves were kind of an old guard

institutional approach to these ideas,

including someone like Martin Luther King Senior

who was an old school guy when it came to these, you know.

He was a Republican until 1960, I believe, I mean,

but that's, that was all school conservative, yeah.

That was always fascinating to me about the protest

because one of the tensions that I was intrigued by

is that they, you know, these students were protesting

within a black institution.

And how does the protest change when it's directed

at your own community's leadership?

We look back now and we think, well,

why would they protest the good folks at Morehouse

when there were so many more deserving targets in their nation?

I mean, I think part of, you know,

one of the things that, that when Malik and I

were sort of doing the research was that these institutions

weren't, they, while the outside world kind of saw them

as these liberal institutions.

And even today, people see HBCUs as these,

and they have this reputation of being super liberal.

And they're the, they're actually the complete opposite.

They're very conservative institutions.

They're partially focused on academia

and they're focused on careers that is perceived

that will help an individual make it financially

and secure their space and society.

So they're very much focused on becoming an engineer,

becoming a doctor, becoming a lawyer,

becoming a teacher, becoming, you know,

the things that will not only help you individually,

but help the way the community looks.

So they're not thinking about,

think about post-war war too.

Exactly. Exactly.

Right now in the 60s, we have a real black middle class

and it looks like that.

So they're not sitting their kids to college

to start any trouble.

Yeah. Yeah.

And they want their kids,

yeah, they want their kids to take up their medical practice,

their dental practice, their legal practice,

their insurance practice.

And so these institutions,

while they're in particular very prestigious

within the black community,

they definitely were not places where

there was freedom of speech necessarily,

like to say, hey, this is what we think should happen.

For example, that you couldn't walk on the grass, right?

You were not allowed to walk on the grass.

So it's not like it being a California

where you see kids playing frisbee on these campus.

Even to this day,

I graduated from Howard with a master's degree

and I remember one day I finished an exam

and I decided to, on the grass of the building,

I was like, oh, I'm gonna swing golf balls

and they're just plastic golf balls,

nothing that would hurt anything.

And they sent somebody out to tell me to stop.

Yeah. You didn't mean like,

and I was like, yeah, but this exam week,

I'm just celebrating, you're like, no, no, you're not supposed to.

So black colleges, while they find a lot of joy,

people look at the homecomings

and look at the bands and the games,

they, it's a different environment.

And I think it was hyper-different in the 60s.

And the straw that broke the camel's back

was the conditions in the cafeteria,

but they were frustrated that they couldn't

intellectually join the fight of the movement, right?

They were, on their bodies, they were doing it,

but intellectually, the institution having a stance

on the place that black America needed to have

in securing our civil rights,

I think they were frustrated

that these institutions weren't the vanguard of the movement.

Right. Well, what were the students actually demanding

and how radical did those demands seem at the time?

It's incredible, because to us in retrospect,

it seemed silly.

So they were demanding something as simple as,

we want the leadership of the institution

to reflect the student body.

So we want the board of trustees

to have black, more, more black people on the board of trustees.

They wanted, they wanted an African-American studies

department, right?

There was no, there's no black studies on the campus, right?

Which blows your mind.

You could get that degree in California,

but you could have a degree.

You could not get a black studies.

The University of Georgia had it before, Maureen.

Wow. Right.

So they wanted, if you know anything about the schools

in Atlanta, there's five major schools.

There's Morehouse, Spellman, Clark Atlanta,

at the time was Clark College in Atlanta University.

They've since merged Morris Brown

and the International Theological Center.

So basically seven, six institutions.

They wanted those institutions to merge

to be one major institution.

It's kind of like the way you have the scripts

and Claremont College.

Claremont College is in California.

So they wanted something similar.

And they wanted named after Dr. King, Jr.

And so those were some of the demands.

They were really philosophical, right?

They were sort of, there were smaller things,

but they were really philosophical demands.

And it was about really changing

the sort of the North Star of the institution in a way.

Right. I mean, you mentioned,

I mean, this happened right after the murder of Dr. King.

How much of it was grief?

And how much of it was like a turning point in strategy?

I've always wondered how organized was this action?

Was it a great question?

Yeah, that's a nice question.

And it's a little bit of both.

I mean, obviously in the house,

I speak to this more as a Morehouse man,

but you have to really contextualize.

And you think about all of the,

how many cities in America

write it and set on fire when Dr. King was assassinated.

In Atlanta, we're talking about a third generation Morehouse man.

We're talking about the King family being royalty in Atlanta.

So this death was a,

it was a spiritual death in Atlanta, right?

It wasn't just,

it wasn't just this guy

who was leading this particular movement.

He was born of Atlanta, right?

So his death hit Morehouse,

it hit Atlanta particularly in a visceral way.

And on top of that, I think when you look at the,

not just the aftermath, but some of the build up,

I think it's episode three,

where we read some of the,

the Maroon Tiger articles from the student body

over a course of six, seven months before the lock-in.

The Maroon Tiger is the college paper,

and it's that same college paper to this day.

So the students are not pleased.

And they're fired up.

They're fired up.

And John, the consistent thing that you're seeing

is that we're going to be left behind,

that the world is changing,

and we're not a part of it.

Here we are at this kind of epicenter

of kind of the boysian ideological ideas

of using the education, not just for money.

If you talk about the boys' purpose of education,

it's antithetical to this idea of get your degree

and go make money.

Like the boys wanted you to change your minds

and embrace society and become more worldly.

That's what Dr. King wanted, right?

So they were afraid of kind of becoming this,

you know, these machines to just feed

into the capitalist structure that was growing

in the next 20, 30 years.

And then, that was a big part of it.

And then when you talk about angst,

this is one of the things that men

like always pointed out was that Malcolm had passed away

previous, and Malcolm was sort of considered the radical one,

right? He was the scary one in society.

And now Dr. King is assassinated.

Dr. King is murdered.

And the idea is like, you murdered the reasonable one, right?

So now, since you did that,

so now we're going to take matters into our own hands, right?

We're not going to be reasonable.

We're not going to listen to reason.

We're not going to go according to the law.

We're going to take our rights by hookah by crook.

And we're going to start with this institution.

Well, and this is what I love because your podcast

is not just about that day.

And it explores Cointel Pro.

Am I saying that right?

Cointel Pro?

Yes, I mean, something that I've always

just heard whispers about here and there,

but I mean, you guys really go there.

How deeply was the federal government monitoring

or even influencing student movements like this?

Essentially, if there's a conspiracy theory about it,

it's probably true, John.

I remember hearing you at Cointel Pro when I was at Morehouse.

And I literally thought I was like,

this is the idea of paranoid people

who are getting over their drug addiction.

This cannot be something that actually happened.

There's no way that we know for sure

the federal government flooded black neighborhoods with drugs.

I'm going to give you a stat that I heard a couple of years ago.

I heard in 1975 that the educational gap

between black students, I think it was like fifth grade students

and white fifth grade students,

had shrunk to 5% in the 70s.

And then you see Cointel Pro be enacted

and you see that gap become enormous, become a chasm.

So I would not be surprised.

And we have the evidence that this, in fact,

happened and it's a systematic approach

to disenfranchising a certain part of the population.

Absolutely.

And what's interesting, the reason

this should be interested to your listeners

is not only for you to feel bad

for your black neighbors and your brown neighbors.

But if you look at what's happening today,

the system will not stop with those people.

It's going to come after you.

It's not going to protect you

just because you're white in your privilege.

It may elevate you a little bit more.

But if we see what's happening today in our society,

it's going to come after you as well.

So when people like us are protected,

that's actually banking for your future protection.

And I don't think if you know,

if you talk to people in the 80s and the Reagan revolution

and when Bush comes along

and he's dismantling a lot of the advances

that we made from the 60s and 70s,

I don't think the average white person

would believe that, right?

They'd be like, no, the system

is never going to come after you.

But I think when you talk to people today,

they realize how far the system could come.

So we really, in America,

we are locked step with each other.

Like we're step in step just because I get burned first.

It does not mean you're eventually not going to get burned.

And I think that's more wisdom

that I can ever hope to achieve

because you're right.

And we're witnessing in real time

some of our conservative brothers and sisters

of the Caucasian persuasion realizing

for the first time, oh shit,

maybe my angry black fellow students in college

were onto something here.

Right.

Because even the right wingers

are beginning to see how authoritarianism

will come for them eventually,

which leads us to the protest today.

I mean, I want to ask you, Manalek,

we're all getting excited about the next Big No Kings

and March 28th, looking at the next one,

which is going to probably be substantially bigger

than the previous, which was bigger

than the one before that.

Sure.

What is, what do you mean by,

what do we mean by protest health?

What does that mean physically, mentally, strategically?

That's a great question.

You know, it's so interesting.

It's like when we really started to explore this

and going back into your, your,

into with the Quantale Pro episode, particularly,

we were able to speak to a former FBI agent

Frank Foguzli, who worked for the FBI

for 20, 25 years, working counterintelligence.

And what was fascinating about listening to him

is that he was a G-man through and through,

but he was also a true constitutionalist, right?

And he believed in free speech

and he believed in protections

and it started to get weird for him

around the Bush administration.

When after 9-11, there was no longer warrants,

there was Patriot Act, there was no,

we can now just lock people up

just because we thought they talked to someone,

right, all these things made him uncomfortable, right?

And so like the resistance of this is almost like,

it's like a medical exam.

You know, it truly is like the kind of the republic foundation

like they push back on the system.

And the way that what was fascinating to about

all the chaos that was happening in Minnesota,

when you heard right wing people talk about

legal gun owners going to a protest, right?

If I'm 44 years old, never thought I'd see the day.

You know, never thought I would see the day

where now republicans are criticizing legal,

well, you talk about the third rail,

third rail of right wing politics,

criticizing a legal gun owner, right?

So but I say, no, but it was a liberal legal gun owner.

So I guess the government can shoot them in the street.

Like that's, you want to talk about like a,

and I, I, I, I opening kind of jaw dropping

realization of kind of where things are

and just how serious these people are

about the venom of their authoritarianism.

It's not even a joke.

It's not even, I think sometimes

because these people have such cartoons,

they're such kind of WWE personalities.

It's very, it's easy sometimes to forget

they're really working from a very venomous place.

So when you talk about protest health, it's literally,

either you believe in the foundation

of these principles or you don't, yeah.

Well, I think what's fascinating, you know, go, I'm sorry.

Please go ahead, go ahead.

I was gonna say if we look at in terms of like youth movement

in this country and we saw after October 7th

and the aggressions of Israel against Palestine

and the protest that, that in the spring

that happened on college campuses

and the way, the really vicious way

that college presidents and board of trustees

tamp down on protest on their students to the point

where students today are not protesting at all.

I teach at a, one of the most diverse campuses

in the country at George Mason University,

one of my most diverse campuses in the country

and a great number of these students are from the Middle East.

They come from countries all over the Middle East

and there's no protest of any kind happening on campus.

And I think there's, it's a twofold strategy.

It's one to physically intimidate you with kicking you

out of the country, not letting you back into school,

charging you criminally.

But it's also the financial burden, right?

That the sort of threatening your future prospects,

your inability, like students are so burdened with student debt

that it's hard for them to decide.

For the parents.

It's, yeah, it's hard for the most ideal model.

Exactly, I'm gonna just, you know, I'm gonna,

I'm gonna protest and I'm gonna take chances

and I'm gonna change the future.

It's hard, when I talk to my students,

I sympathize with them, I don't chastise them

because I know there's so much pressure on them.

So, you know, I think that we're in a precarious situation

but I do think we still have the power of the purse.

I was reading Taylor Branche's book today,

a partying the waters about the King years,

America and the King years.

And, you know, the Birmingham,

one part of the protest in Alabama

was brain a city to its knees through starving it of money,

through not patronizing certain businesses.

And part of what changed Birmingham was the white business owners

could not take the chance of the black residents

in that city deciding that they weren't gonna buy

in those stores, they just couldn't take that.

So, they were the first ones to come to the table

to make them violently.

Nonviolent.

I can talk to you guys for days about this.

We gotta hit a break, but please come back again.

Hans Charles and Mendelike Lemumba are the hosts

and co-creators of the podcast, the A-Building.

Guys, it is essential.

I want you to subscribe to this right away.

And I want you to attend the No Kings protest on March 28th,

but listen to every episode of the A-Building before you do.

Gentlemen, will you please come back again

and we can go even deeper on this and about protests

because I want to get your take on

if protest is still a successful thing

for people to do in this century.

This platform is always open to you both.

I love what you've created.

Please come back and see us again.

Anytime, John.

Anytime.

What a great pleasure.

Again, thank you for doing this.

Back in a moment with your calls.

This is Progress After Dark.

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We are at 866-997-4748-866-997 grit.

And by the way, finally, someone gave us

reasons for why they were at war with Iran.

But it wasn't any American.

It was BB Netanyahu, who has never met a war with Iran he didn't like.

Our goals are three.

One, stay out of breath.

Moving the nuclear threat.

Second, removing the ballistic missile threat.

And removing both of these threats

before they're buried deep underground

and becoming immune from aerial attack.

And third, this means creating the conditions

for the Iranian people to grasp their freedom

to control their destiny.

Oh, they care so much about the Iranian people, don't they?

The one they're dropping bombs.

They care so much about those Iranian people.

Good Lord.

You know, can we just stop having extreme religious conservatives

ever run any country?

Yes.

Well, I will say that I think that they do have a great fondness

and concern for a large portion of the Iranian people.

And I only say this because do you remember the Hezbollah

a pager attack when they killed thousands of people

with explosive pages?

Exploding pages.

So like I was talking to a relative, an inlaw,

who had served in the IDF.

And he was talking about, we're like, how do you pull that off?

And he said that basically like in Iran and in Tehran,

like there's a lot of people who are more than happy

to collaborate with nations like the US and Israel

on pulling these things off because the Islamic regime

there is so strict and hardcore that it's like a very fertile

ground to have double agents and spies and operatives

who are just willing to just do what it takes.

But anyway, Netanyahu is a piece of shit.

That's the analysis I come to progress for.

Thank you, Chris.

866-997-4748.

So listen, we're going to keep the whole hour open for your calls

and to cover all the news we didn't get to today.

We'd love to hear from you.

We're coast to coast, live and interactive.

Let's go to Vivian, who is calling from Oregon online three.

Vivian, thank you so much for waiting.

Good evening and welcome.

Hi, can you hear me?

Hi.

Sure can, welcome.

I have never called into any show before.

Thank you.

I would say first time caller, long time listener,

but I also haven't listened to your show before.

Well, that's even better for you in your long-term wellness

so good for you.

Very good.

What's on your mind tonight?

I'm honored that we would be your first.

Thank you.

Well, I am really disgusted

and horrified at this catch kit bill

that has been introduced in the US house.

I don't know if you've heard about this.

The catch kit bill?

These are the abortion catch kits that would require women

to use one of these things when they have a miscarriage.

Like, it's actually very creepy.

It's trying to regulate medication abortion

by literally requiring women to collect any blood

and tissue with a specialized container

and like a medical waste bag, right?

That is correct.

It's ghoulish.

It seems to be introduced.

I would have to imagine in bad faith

because no one could want anyone to have to send that.

How is that to be received?

And why is it necessary?

Who needs it?

Who needs it exactly?

Like that to me, it's just more of this humiliation,

more of this making the experience more difficult for women.

Precisely.

And it was introduced by a female legislator

which also feels like part of almost like a sick prank

or a joke.

I don't know if it was her idea.

I don't know if you know that either.

No, I don't.

I know that there's been legislation introduced to end.

I believe to end this practice.

But again, it just seems like they spin it

as it's designed to help women.

And in reality, it's designed to abuse women,

even in the states where they haven't had their rights

taken away from you.

Right.

And Massachusetts, I believe, or another East Coast state

has been providing, helping to provide this to people

out of state who are no longer able to get abortions.

I will say as a person who's had an abortion on 51,

I had an abortion when I was 26.

I later went on to have two kids, one of whom

is making dinner in the other room in the kitchen.

I don't regret that decision at all.

I went to an abortion clinic here in Portland.

It was not the most fun day of my life.

But there were no protesters present.

And it was a safe medical procedure.

I, my heart leaps for women who have to take a pill

and then go through an agonizing process

of essentially an induced miscarriage.

It's very painful and frightening.

The worst thing about this is that they're pretending

this has something to do with the American water supply.

You know what I mean?

Instead of having their miscarriage or abortion

remains be flushed, which most women want to do,

and then go lie down for two days.

They're saying, no, you have to catch it

as it leaves your body and bag up the tissue and blood

and bring it into the doctor as medical waste.

And they say, well, it's obviously for human dignity

and our water systems.

Vivian, you know these are people who don't give a damn

about clean water.

They'd have never cared about a single environmental issue

in their life, but they do care about harassing

and shaming women.

And it's like, they're attaching this to legislation

that would test groundwater for abortion pills

or hormones associated with birth control pills.

And it's like, it's just crazy.

I don't see how this could actually pass,

but this would just be, I mean, federal harassment

of women, and I'm sure it would be challenged right away,

but I gotta tell you, I'm shocked at how they keep

finding new ways to be creepy to women

over something that the Bible never actually forbids.

In fact, there is biblical scholarship

that says that either in the Old Testament

or it, I say biblical, it may have been in the Talmud,

but that there is a...

It is.

A Jewish sort of recipe or instructions

for terminating a pregnancy.

You're calling into the right radio show

for the first time because not only is abortion allowed

in the Jewish faith, if the mother's wife,

life is in danger, abortions are legal and free

in Israel right now.

Have you ever heard a Republican brother or sister

demand we cut foreign aid to Israel?

But it's in Numbers chapter five,

where God gives Moses rather gruesome bizarre abortion tips

for wives who are pregnant through adultery.

Likewise, in Exodus 21,

God asserts that a fetus is property, a man's property,

and that a woman's life has more value in his eye.

But at no point in the Bible does anyone ever forbid abortion,

abortion existed during the time of the Bible.

It is referenced in the Bible.

Jesus came out against the death penalty,

but none of the prophets were ever told by God

to come out against ending a pregnancy.

And yet these people will not stop harassing women.

They don't want to do anything.

The Bible actually commands us to do to help the poor.

They really want to believe that they have a right

to own and control women's bodies

based on something that's not in the Bible

that they pretend is there.

Agreed.

My first protest was an anti-choice protest.

I was dragged there by my parents.

Wow.

And at the time, I believed, oh, maybe 11.

Okay.

And at that time, though, I believed what my parents had told me.

I believed what the church,

what evangelical Christianity had told me.

And I had no idea that I would ever need

to get an abortion or want.

I didn't need to.

I wasn't at risk,

but I had recently been accepted to law school.

And I...

You don't owe me an explanation.

A polyamorous relationship.

And I didn't, but didn't want to have a baby.

You don't owe any of us any kind of explanation

for the choices you made.

Certainly not a guy like me.

I appreciate that.

Yes, that is true.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But you had your reasons.

And again, you know, like...

My opinion as a male on the matter of abortion

is that male opinions on abortion don't matter.

It's not our bodies.

And unless, you know,

unless these anti-abortion people think

that the government should be allowed to come

and take a kidney from you to give to someone else

to save a life, to take bone marrow with you,

without consent, to take away your body autonomy

to save someone else's life who needs a donation.

If you don't believe in that,

then you don't have any kind of right

to say that women lose their body autonomy.

And the government should decide this.

It's disgusting.

It's not Christian.

And it's not American.

Like you, I grew up in the church.

My parents and I never talked about abortion.

I knew my parents always voted pro-choice.

But I also knew that my religion screamed how wrong it was.

And it took me many years to reconcile my conflicting feelings

about it as well.

But it sounds like you're a great mom.

And it sounds like the choices you made

allowed you to be a great mom.

The Bible says nothing about abortion,

but it talks a lot about poverty.

And it talks a lot about stewardship

and personal responsibility.

And for many, being able to plan their families

allows them to then get out of poverty

and raise children who are not in poverty.

So I think there's a very strong Christian case

for staying the hell out of people's private lives.

One hundred percent, I agree.

I also have a proposal for any person in poverty.

Or any person who is menstruating.

And I know that, well, I don't know.

I assume that you haven't menstruated, John.

Is that correct?

I mean, it's early yet, dear.

But so far, no.

Sometimes I keep checking.

My producer accuses me of that.

My producer keeps giving me my doll,

but I think he's just passive-aggressive.

I see.

Well, since you haven't and you most likely won't,

I will say that sometimes menstruation

includes some pretty heavy clotting.

Yes, it does.

And I would encourage anybody who experiences that

to maybe fish some of those clots out of the toilet

and send them to the woman who introduced this legislation.

Because she's so interested in preserving

the purity of our water.

And so concerned with possible miscarriages,

many of which happen without the person's intending

to have a miscarriage.

Maybe she would appreciate it.

Or perhaps it would make her realize

how fucking disgusting she's being part of my friend.

Thank you.

Thank you.

You got to call a more radio show, Vivian.

You're good at this.

By the way, Massachusetts Department of Public Health

shows 82% of abortions reported by Massachusetts providers

were done via medication.

62% using telehealth, right?

So because we're seeing more and more women

who are not going in for surgical abortions,

and that appears to be how we're going to get around

Roe v Wade, they're going to find new ways

to persecute people who use medication.

And again, most of this medication just keeps an egg

from attaching to the uterine wall.

That's what the morning after pill does,

which is what God does for 50% of all fertilized eggs.

Sorry, Chris.

Well, while you guys were talking,

I was just skimming this Bloomberg article from February,

just about this group that did this huge lobbying effort

and they've got bills across seven states,

and there's already a bunch of states

that already have these kind of laws.

But these laws require waste water testing

to see if people are using abortion medication.

And then they don't want to do anything to clean up.

They don't want to do anything to clean up the water.

Mind you.

They don't care about the quality of the water.

These are all big coal people.

And then after they, you know, if they detect it,

then it's like, I guess it becomes an investigation

to figure out where it's coming from.

And they said that like in South Carolina,

they want to focus on college towns.

Of course.

Crazy.

Crazy.

And then in Georgia,

I was just arrested for having a medical abortion.

In case you're wondering,

it is representative Mary Miller of Illinois

who introduced the Clean Water for All Life Act

and this would require women to use these catch kits

when their pregnancy is ending

and bag up that tissue and blood.

And bring it back to a doctor's medical waste.

Good God, almighty.

Good God.

Truly horrifying.

Nothing to help the poor.

Nothing to help the poor.

But yeah.

Yeah.

And nothing to help people who have children.

Nothing to help.

Of course not.

New mothers or college kids.

Who end up pregnant and then having the child.

Nothing for them.

That's right.

These people should have no say

over what a woman can do with her body.

But I will say when we reach a point

that all pregnancy and childbirth

and early education and child care are free,

when it's free for all women,

then these people are allowed to have opinions.

Until then, no.

None of our business.

I'm not sure that they are.

And here's why.

There is a Twitter

and I think her first name is Gabriel.

I think she goes by the sign mom.

She has a track,

a published booklet called

ejaculate responsibly.

And her reframing

of the whole abortion issue

is to place it clearly on the people

responsible for unwanted pregnancies.

Yes.

I love the Gabriel Blair.

Regulation is, I'm sorry to talk over you.

No, no.

Responsible ejaculation is the reason

and the basis for all unwanted pregnancies

without exception.

Yes.

Men cause it.

And so if they want,

if they're so eager to regulate people's bodies

and they want to regulate reproduction,

maybe they should require every man who masturbates

to take the seed,

the outcome of his enjoyment.

Yes.

And we need that to be emailed

to representatives.

What Miller?

Yes.

Mary Miller.

Yeah.

I love it.

Mary Miller.

Right, Chris?

Yeah.

I mean, I think there's not a young man in America

who doesn't have their own homemade catch kit.

Gabriel Blair says,

women don't get pregnant.

They are impregnated by men.

Abulation is involuntary.

Ejaculation is voluntary.

Maybe not for some guys in the first 30 seconds,

but still.

And again, like a woman can only get pregnant

a couple days a month.

A man can cause impregnation every day of the month.

Her logic is very persuasive,

and I'm a big fan of how she frames it.

Yeah.

Vivian, you're good at this.

You got to call us more often.

Biggest.

I'm sorry.

It's one of the biggest shifts

that I have ever,

the mental shift was so profound

when I read that a year or so ago

that I was honestly astonished

that it hadn't ever occurred to me.

But the response to her,

that it's a long thread of posts.

The response shows that most people had it,

and that goes to show you how deep

the patriarchal framing of sex and reproduction goes.

We have so much,

we have so, such a long way to go

in terms of understanding the lives that we've been said,

the damaging way that this sacred, beautiful thing

has been twisted and weaponized against everyone.

Really?

I agree.

Hey, listen, we got to go, Vivian.

I got a lot of callers,

but you're good at this.

Please call us more often.

It's really an honor.

Your kids are lucky to have you.

Thank you.

Bye-bye.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

866-997-47-40.

Look at that.

Chris, I hope you're going to collect samples now.

Let's go to Bridget and Pennsylvania,

online 7 Bridget.

Thank you for waiting.

Welcome.

You're on progress.

Hi, John.

What's up?

Nothing much.

How you feeling tonight?

What's going on?

Okay.

Before, to your previous caller,

my governor here in Pennsylvania,

Josh Shapiro wants to extend an abortion.

Well, in a state constitution,

you can't get an abortion after 15 weeks.

He wants to extend that to 24.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, that would, I'd go for it.

It helps.

Yeah.

I agree.

Yeah.

I would support that as well.

I would also support for men having no say whatsoever.

Uh, over what women do with their bodies.

That's.

I agree with you on that.

Um, right on.

I'm going to talk about Pete Hanks,

that this guy is such a goddamn fraud.

This guy has probably built a couple of these commandments

including Dasha and I kill.

How can you put people in this?

Hopefully.

This guy loves killing people.

Loves killing people.

I take it back to the Venezuelans in the fishing boats.

I mean, he loves fucking murdering people.

No due process.

No evidence.

No proof whatsoever that they were narco terrorists.

And little pity, petulant, prickish peed gets off

on being responsible for these deaths.

What's that?

And then today talking about how I brought my son in.

My 13 year old son came in to look at all the dead people

and I said they died so you won't have to deal with the nuclear Iran.

Yep.

Motherfucker.

We bombed Iran.

We had a Barack Obama.

Barack Obama and several other nations

spent a year putting together a comprehensive functioning peace plan

so they'd never have to deal with the nuclear Iran.

And your god damn bloated Nazi boss tore it up.

Your boss is the reason we'd have to worry about it.

And then we were told it was obliterated eight months ago.

And now they're doing it again.

I can't wait for Pete Hegs' kids to grow up and Google their dad

and learn exactly who spawned them.

What a fucking asshole.

I'll show.

I mean, I have to.

Pete Hegs' kid.

Ooh, I mean, I just, I feel for the child.

But like, imagine like your Pete Hegs' kid and he's showing you

oh, this is what I'm doing to kill all these people.

And you're like, oh, thanks, dad.

It's, I'm really glad you left my mom for your Fox News producer.

Tell me more about how Jesus likes us to kill the bad people.

Oh, my god.

Go ahead.

Oh, fuck.

Yeah, and I have some commandments of my own.

I actually have a couple of them.

They'll show not commit.

They'll show not rape and they'll show not rape and molest underage children.

My second commandment, they'll show not cover up rape and molestation.

And number three,

thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself.

Hmm.

Nice.

Nice.

Keep.

Yeah.

These motherfuckers need to keep their religions out of our business.

Yeah.

I mean, enjoy it.

You know, talk about it if you want.

But when you're trying to impose it on other people,

you are going against the founders of this country.

Finds another country where they push that stuff.

But not here.

Not here.

That's right.

And the reason and the pluralism makes us great.

Yeah.

I always believe that too.

I always appreciate your takes on religion too.

Yeah.

I'm a big Jesus fan.

I just am not a big fan of his unauthorized fan clubs.

Me too.

It's very simple for me.

Let's talk about religion.

Let's talk about God or whether there isn't one.

Let's form coalitions with believers and nonbelievers and agnostics.

But when you're trying to impose your religion,

which is to say,

you're trying to impose your version

of one religion on other people,

then I got to grab a constitution

and the New Testament and smack you down.

And these people don't give up.

Triflin fools.

Yes, they don't give a fuck about the New Testament.

They don't give a fuck about the Constitution either.

They haven't read it.

They haven't read either one.

They just know God likes them better

because I put up a tree in my house once a year in hate Muslims.

That's about as deep as they get.

Oh, bridge, you're wonderful.

Thank you so much.

Have a great evening.

Absolutely.

866-997-4748.

If you're on hold, I want to talk to you.

Quick break back in just a moment with your calls.

This is progress.

Here's what you've been missing

on the Stephanie Miller happy hour podcast.

Are you afraid if you put boots on the ground

and a ranna could be another Vietnam Trump?

No, I'm not really afraid of anything.

Do you have any thoughts on the bones,

Captain Cadet bone skaters?

Draft dodging coward?

And him not being afraid of anything?

Well, yes.

All I can say is this.

I mean, that question just stunned me for a second.

And he's right.

This isn't going to be like Vietnam.

Certainly not for him.

Nobody's getting bone spurs

and nobody's getting venereal disease

in any operation out there, unlike his war.

This man is out of his mind.

I'm sorry, people.

We are way past 25th Amendment time

with regards to this war.

Yeah.

It's queuing up to being a disaster.

And I've got people out there going,

oh, we're the...

We dropped the most bombs

and we're having the most capable weapon systems out there.

That does not mean victory.

Go ask the nations that we supposedly soundly defeated

with the most bombs and the most technology,

like, you know, the defeated country of Vietnam.

Oh, wait.

Or the defeated country of Afghanistan with the Taliban.

Oh, wait.

Guys with flip flops beat us regularly

because of this myth that if we drop enough bombs

and we kill enough locals that we win.

Yeah.

We're playing the wrath scalar this Saturday.

Everyone come out.

You're magic on that base.

I'll tell you.

866-997-47-48.

Randy is calling from the great state of Arkansas

on line three.

Randy, good evening and welcome.

Thank you for waiting.

You're on Sirius XM.

Hey, thanks very much.

I tuned in just as you were saying

the man should have no say and a woman's choice.

Let me hear me out on this.

Sure.

I don't come armed with empirical evidence.

I think the decision for a lot of women boils down to economics,

whether they want to keep a pregnancy or not.

It could be they can't they can't afford more daycare.

They want to go to grad school.

Whatever.

Yep.

Where I'm from and actually Southwest was a very poor area.

High percentage of the people are unmedicated.

If a lady has a baby on state aid.

The state will automatically enter a child's poor order against the father.

So this financial decision is thrust upon the male.

The male may go, I can't afford to pay your daycare.

I want to go to grad school.

Blah blah blah.

Yeah.

I think that that puts him with a little bit of voice in it.

And that may not be popular.

But I mean, both people are going to have economic concerns.

Or the guy is just not going to state away the state.

That's interesting because normally you hear the other way.

Normally the arguments made the reverse way, Randy,

that if a woman is going to terminate and the guy doesn't want to and it's his baby,

you know, that how much agency, how much right does that man have?

And I respect that argument.

I think if a man wants to sue to force a woman to bear his child,

it's not my way of shivalry.

But I think the argument could be made.

But yours is different.

Yours is saying if a woman decides to have the baby

and the man who impregnated her wishes she hadn't,

why should he have to be on the hook financially?

Is that it?

Yes.

Why should he have to, you know, accept her decision when she's saying,

okay, I can afford this baby and the guy's going, I can't.

Well, I think this is where personal responsibility comes into it, right?

It takes two to make a baby.

And if you impregnate a woman, you are on the hook.

And quite frankly, I understand the dismay of men who make a mistake

and then they're trapped.

I totally get it.

And I understand it deeply.

But at the same time, if you have created that life with a woman,

I like the fact that we live in a government, that we live in a society

that doesn't let men abandon women financially when they've impregnated them.

I'd rather live in that society where a man can't financially abandon a woman

but has to, he doesn't have to be a father, doesn't have to be in her life,

but he has to help provide.

Yeah.

That airs more on the side of personal responsibility and morality for me.

But I appreciate what you're saying.

I think it's going to, that's the kind of argument that men really need to know

before they decide I don't need a condom tonight.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah.

There's just a point of one to make.

Right on, man.

I appreciate it.

You don't hear that side of that coin.

I really don't know.

I always hear about the guy who wants to sue to force his girlfriend or his ex to have the baby.

I've never heard about the guy who wants to sue.

Why should I pay for this?

You might have just written the best condom ad I've ever heard.

Well, you know, I see guys that are getting these child support orders

and the state will pay for the attorney.

So guys going, okay, well, I want visitation.

They go, no, we have not our department.

You're paying.

And we, and you, you can hire an attorney to maybe get to see the baby.

But, uh, anyway, it just, it's, at that point,

I'm going to get screwed.

Yeah.

I, I hear you.

I hear you.

And again, men have to be very careful because men should not be impregnating women

who don't want to be impregnated.

So I completely agree.

I'm a fan of the debate.

I'm a fan of the civil debate.

And I'm a fan, like I said, of living in a country where we as a people have decided

we're not going to let men be deadbeats if they knock on women up.

So Randy, thank you for the call, man.

I really appreciate it.

Have a great evening.

Gary is calling from LA online for Gary.

Good evening and welcome.

You're on Sirius XM.

How you doing?

Hi.

Uh, first of all, on behalf of everyone on the west coast,

we're going to need you to stay on the air another three hours.

Why is that?

Because you, you go up at nine p.m. here.

So, you know, what do I do for the next three hours?

Oh, do I?

Oh, so I'll stay on for three a.m.

I time.

All right.

Well, thank you.

The guy who's trying to kill me for the insurance money would love it if that happened.

Um, I, I, I'll be in LA next week.

I'll be doing the show from six to nine for a couple of weeks.

I'll be on the west coast for a while.

But yeah.

Sorry about that.

Looking forward to it.

I'm looking forward to you tomorrow on stepping.

But what I call to ask you,

I'm sure you remember when Trump was campaigning.

And he made that comment.

Christians.

You got to vote both this time.

Elon has fixed it so you don't.

You'll never have to vote again.

Right.

He also said in that statement.

I'm not a Christian, but I'm relying on you.

You were calm when he said that I do.

Yes.

Why isn't that we never heard anything about that?

The media from, you know, why not talk news?

But just no one ever said anything.

It never became an issue.

Yeah.

Well, I talk about it a lot.

I, I, I just wrote a book about it and I'm writing another book about it.

Because for me, it is an issue.

Democrats are terrified to ever address Christianity.

This guy, Taloriko.

This guy Pete Buttigieg.

Reverend Warnock.

They're very much outliers.

Democrats are terrified to call out religious hypocrisy like that.

And I honestly don't know why.

Because Donald Trump talks a big game about Christianity.

But he's never fought for a single teaching of Jesus.

And he's never promised Christians he cares about the actual teachings of Jesus.

And most of the Christians who vote for him obviously don't care about the actual teachings of Jesus.

Because you can't follow those and support Donald Trump.

You have to give Jesus the finger to cast your vote for Trump.

And I always welcome conservatives to tell me why I'm wrong.

Call me up and tell me the teachings of Christ this movement fights for.

Would you believe in 10 years?

Gary, they've never done it.

No, I, gee, I just don't believe that.

Wow.

Yeah.

I also, I, I, I wasn't the only student at one point in my life.

And now I'm a complete atheist.

Right on.

What?

What was that?

I'm sorry.

I said right on.

Okay.

Much respect for your path.

Well, I really hurt my mother and my father.

I did it.

But my really.

They were ministers.

But my other question.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

Who?

Yeah.

Yeah, it was, it was difficult.

But when I, so I know the Bible, I studied the Bible.

And I got to be honest.

If there's ever a human being in the modern times that's the Antichrist,

it has to be Trump out of the seat of Europe as followers.

The mark on his forehead in my entire.

I'm 64 in this entire time.

I've never seen anyone come close as close to making that matching that as he is.

According to the actual Bible, which these people don't read,

the Antichrist is technically anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus' divinity,

which makes the majority of the world's population, the Antichrist.

But you know what I like to say about this one?

Gary is, Trump is not the Antichrist.

But Christ is the Antichrist.

I don't think Trump could be the Antichrist because you have to believe in something to be the Antichrist.

And Trump only believes in money, applause, and pussy.

That's all he cares about.

Yeah, you know, if he weren't somebody trying to hurt other people,

like, hey, do your thing.

Oh, listen, he gave up the great.

He could have been playing golf and banging escorts and doing shitty reality shows.

But no, he had to come out there and make life the worst for everybody.

And now he's not just going to go down in history as the worst president we've ever had.

He's going to go down in history as the worst American ever.

I mean, what American will be more, I mean, Ted Bundy, Charles Manson,

what Trump's killed more people in them?

What American will go down in greater infamy than this guy?

I totally agree with that, sir.

That's why I listen to you.

And as awful as it is, at least his voters get to grow old knowing that and watching it be the reality.

Yes, absolutely.

Thank you for taking my call.

I appreciate it.

I really thank you for making your call.

Did you, did you cut your hair yet?

I cut my hair a couple, but yeah, I cut my hair a couple months ago.

Yes, I've been, I've been cutting it, you know, six inches since the pandemic.

So, so I'm finally back to my pre-pandemic way.

Full on Mohawk.

I grew my hair long in the pandemic.

And I'm a Catholic.

We hang on to pain, you know, but it was hard to part with.

I understand.

Well, I'll tell you about my hair the next call, okay?

Right on, man.

Well, call a more often.

It's great to hear from you.

Have a great evening.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Thanks.

997-47-48 before the break.

Charles and Miami.

Online five.

Charles, are you with us?

Are you really with us?

Hey, Charles.

It's your moment.

You wake, Charles.

You up, boo.

You up, boo.

I know, I know.

I always worry, but you know what?

Charles always wakes up and puts himself to bed.

Usually at 3am along with the repeat.

James is calling from Ohio, online three.

James, good evening and welcome.

Thanks for waiting here on progress.

Hello, John.

I'm here to get your take on me.

I'm busy paying for your call.

I can see you on the phone.

I'm busy paying for your call.

Oh, James, I can't hear you.

I can't hear you.

Hey, I can't hear you.

Hey, I can't hear you.

James, speak clearly into the phone.

I've been seeing a lot of YouTube.

So, I'm the Ethiopian Bible.

I like to get your take on it.

The Ethiopian Bible?

What about it?

Yeah.

Well, have you ever looked into it?

I mean, it's the Diggies Bible, right? It's like the oldest Bible on the earth.

Yes.

I know, I don't know much about it. I know that it keeps a lot of the Bibles,

a lot of the books that King James took out, like the Book of Enoch,

which I once wrote a horror movie script based on, and I know like,

oh God, the Maccabees, I think. I know that it's the oldest Bible,

and it has texts that the King James Bible kept out, but what are you referring to?

Well, I just wanted to take on it, whether I thought you might have more knowledge about it,

and have some opinions on it.

I mean, I have opinions on religion than the teachings of Jesus,

but do you have any opinions on it? Why, what is interesting to you about the Ethiopian Bible?

Well, a lot of things that the fact you said,

King James Bible doesn't have.

Okay.

King James has like, I think King James has like 66 books,

and the Ethiopian Bible has over 80, I believe.

Correct.

And it wasn't written in Greek or Latin.

I mean, these are technical historical things that like nerds like me find interesting,

but on a, on a, on like a Jesus level or something,

I don't really know if there's, is there a controversy about it?

No, it just seems like it has more knowledge than some other parts of the King James,

things like that, that they cut out.

Yeah.

I agree.

It is considered to be the most, the most complete Bible,

and it's like 800 years older than the King James Bible.

Okay.

Well, thank you.

Thank you.

What a great question.

I, I, I, I'm surprised how much I do know about it.

All I know is that the, the Gideons were going to put that in a hotel room dressers,

but it wouldn't, it was so big and stuff.

It wouldn't fit any, it wouldn't, yeah.

It wouldn't even fit any of the drawers.

I mean, I, I know I, I wrote a little bit about it when I was writing the first draft of my book,

but it didn't make it into the final draft.

Just about how the Bible was, you know, men decided which parts would go in,

and which parts would be left out, and what's unique about the Ethiopian Bible,

which I've never read, but what, I mean, I don't really have an opinion on it,

but my historical take on it is that this is the one that had all the extra books that,

that King James left out, which is always fascinating.

Let's go to Mitch in Kent State, online one.

Mitch, hello and welcome.

You're on serious exam.

Really appreciate it.

By the way, it's just the headset thing that we're all regular,

what we're called, the echoes of with God on our side.

Oh, totally.

Totally.

Yeah.

With God on our side is one of Dylan's most brilliant songs.

He did it live at his MTV unplugged.

It's the most political thing he's ever written, and it is exactly right.

For these theocratic thugs who always believe God's on their side to anything they do is right.

And then the song, Dylan traces that to everything from slaughtering the Indians

to killing the Jews to hating Russians.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, the song just did it forever.

It's an masterpiece.

Speaking of which, as he's doing a little tour,

he's here in Cleveland, who is, who is the same,

the same weekend will be in Virginia to see you.

Wait, wait, who's doing it?

Wait, who's doing it?

Who's doing it to her?

Dylan, Dylan.

Oh, Dylan.

Yeah, he's doing dates for the fall.

Yeah, I know.

I want to go see him in Asheville with my brother.

Yeah.

But you're coming down, you're coming to Virginia.

What are you doing in Virginia, man?

Carl, go see Carl and you and then the whole stuff.

Look at you.

If you go saying it's all the rest area, yeah.