The Hidden Way Your Diet Programs Your Baby's Health | Jessie Inchauspé

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Did you know that the nutrients you eat or lack of nutrients you eat while

your pregnant ladies directly impacts the brain development

and the nervous system of your kids?

Guys, ladies, if you're about to have kids,

this is a must watch, a must listen to episode

on what you should be eating to set up your future kids' lives for success.

Let's go ahead, dive in.

I think there's an issue with the societal myth that when you're pregnant,

you're going to gain weight anyway.

Therefore, you should eat as much as you want to eat for two.

There's an issue with this belief that's perpetuated in society.

That pregnancy is the time to eat whatever the heck you want

because you're going to get fat anyway.

It's really backwards.

Actually, pregnancy is a moment where I believe

we need to be extra aware and extra educated about what we're eating

because everything you eat when you're pregnant

goes straight to your baby's bedstream.

Known around the world as the glucose goddess,

and she is a biochemist, the best-selling author,

and one of the most influential voices in modern nutrition education.

Jessie, welcome back to the school greatness.

Some studies on animals are suggesting that doing pregnancy,

your brain gets more pleasure from sugar than when you're not pregnant.

So it intensifies sugar cravings.

And of course, would it be better to have zero sugar during pregnancy?

Of course, is that realistic?

Absolutely not.

This is not the mom's fault.

The mom didn't decide that our entire food system

was going to be processed food-based.

They didn't decide that the cheaper thing to buy

is the crisps versus the healthy broccoli.

This is not the mom's fault.

This is societal issue.

You talk about these four key nutrients

that influence a baby's development in the womb.

What are those four key?

Okay, so the first one is...

I feel like people are struggling with their health so much.

And I have a personal experience with my wife

just going through pregnancy and having twins.

But even in that process, I'm getting in and dated with content

on social media of like, don't do this,

and moms need to do that and make sure you don't eat this.

You're going to ruin your children's life forever.

And it's like, it's kind of scary hearing everyone talk about what to do,

what not to do.

Even doctors and scientists and researchers

saying different things, they're like,

well, this doctor says to do this,

and that doctor says not to do this.

So what do mothers do to make sure when they're pregnant?

Pre-pregnancy during pregnancy and post-pregnancy

to make sure they don't mess their kids out of the up.

Like, it's a scary thing.

I think you said it right.

We're inundated.

Social media tells you all kinds of things.

There's also a lot of emotional pressure on women.

You know, you can feel like guilty.

Like am I not doing enough?

Am I doing enough?

Doctors are really focused on short-term diseases.

Like, do you have gestational diabetes?

Do you have this?

Do you have that?

You're stressed out.

And I was in that same situation.

I was pregnant last year with my son,

and I also felt inundated.

I also felt confused.

And as a scientist, that's all myself.

Okay, let me just like block out the noise a little bit

and let me go into the science and the research.

So that's what I did.

I looked at all the studies.

Because Instagram is not science.

So I looked at all the studies.

And I found some few easy, high leverage things that I could do

that had a proven positive impact on my baby's development

in terms of food without it feeling overwhelming,

without it being incompatible with, you know,

the nausea prone first trimester, etc.

And I want to address this concept of pressure early on

in this talk so we can then move on from it.

There is innate pressure in being pregnant

because you're building another human.

And I hear a lot of this word guilt.

You know, when it comes to nutrition tips,

you have mom guilt for nutrition.

It's real, huh?

I think it's wrong.

Because in terms of nutrition, for example,

what I found is that most moms

don't have access to the proper nutrition

for their baby to grow optimally.

But it's not the mom's fault.

We live in the society today

where most people are eating processed fruits.

We're all suffering from bad nutrition habits,

including pregnant moms, but it's not their fault.

And nobody tells them what they can actually do.

So what I tried to do with this book

is give people a simple guide

to navigate that pressure without the guilt,

to navigate the broken food landscape we live in

during this period of pregnancy,

which has a disproportionate impact

on the lifelong health of our baby.

Wow.

And that's where you're doing.

That's what I tried to do with this book, yeah.

And so to start, then, what would you say

are the, you talk about these four key nutrients

that influence a baby's development

in the, in the world?

What are those four key?

Okay, so the first one is

Colleen.

We're going to talk about it.

Okay.

Colleen is essential to forming your baby's brain.

It's an egg, an anal foods,

a little bit in past.

Not vegans.

Exactly.

The second one is glucose.

And this has been my work for the past, you know,

seven years talking about blood sugar balance.

It's also important during pregnancy.

So it's important to have glucose?

It's important to have enough for your baby,

but not too much.

It's all about the balance.

The third one is protein.

You need enough protein when you're pregnant

because your baby at birth is 50% protein

if you exclude water.

So you need to give him enough protein to develop.

And the last one is omega-3s.

And this is a fat that comes from fish

and is important for your baby's brain.

So those are the four pillars.

And if you optimize these four pillars,

you will give your baby a very good soil

out of which he can grow.

To develop.

Exactly.

What would you say are the four things

that mom should eliminate from their diet

free or during pregnancy?

All the known toxic ones.

So cigarette, alcohol, as much as you can,

drugs, I mean, all the stuff that your doctor will tell you.

Those are the real ones to eliminate.

When it comes to things like sugar, for example,

we all have sugar cravings during pregnancy.

And in fact, some studies on animals

are suggesting that during pregnancy,

your brain gets more pleasure from sugar

than when you're not pregnant.

So it intensifies sugar cravings.

And of course, would it be better to have

zero sugar during pregnancy?

Of course.

Is that realistic?

Absolutely not.

So it's about eating sugar in a way

that creates less impact.

And apart from that, really,

do you need to eliminate anything else?

No, I think anything can be part of your pregnancy diet.

But if you have these four key pillars in,

you're going to have a really good baseline.

Is there an issue with pregnant women who say,

well, you know what, I'm craving this

and I'm just going to eat as much as I want

until I stop craving?

There's no issue with women.

I think there's an issue with the societal myth

that when you're pregnant,

you're going to gain weight anyway.

Therefore, you should eat as much as you want to eat for two.

There's an issue with this belief

that's perpetuated in society that pregnancy is

these time to eat whatever the hug you want

because you're going to get fat anyway.

It's really backwards.

Actually, pregnancy is a moment where I believe

we need to be extra aware and extra educated

about what we're eating because

everything you eat when you're pregnant

goes straight to your baby's bloodstream.

There's another myth, Lewis,

that there's a filtering process going on

that your baby's just going to get what he needs

and none of the stuff that he doesn't need.

It gets all of it.

He gets all of it.

So, the placenta is an organ that you grow

in your uterus next to your baby.

And the placenta brings your bloodstream

and your baby's bloodstream

in really close contact to exchange nutrition.

Now, the placenta is not a filter.

The placenta trusts,

largely trusts,

that whatever is in your bloodstream

belongs in your baby's bloodstream.

Which is why it's important to not drink alcohol,

smoke, cigarette, or do illegal drugs

because they're going to show up in your baby's bloodstream.

It's the same for all the other nutrients.

Let's say a woman whose pregnant is like,

I'm just going to have the whole pint of ice cream

every single day because I'm craving it

and it's okay.

And this is what moms have done for the last 50 years

and whatever.

What is that?

Like, how much of that sugar rush

is actually going into the bloodstream

of the placenta and then impacting

the fetus and then as the baby grows?

Like, how much does it impact

throughout the stage of pregnancy?

So, the first trimester

is the trimester where most of us feel nauseous.

So, I felt extremely nauseous

and I could only eat carbs.

I could only eat, like,

croissant, prawn sugar,

basically, for like, four months.

It was so good, though.

It was so good.

And so, in those phases,

you do whatever you can,

right? Just eat whatever you can.

Survive.

Survive.

And in the first trimester,

your baby's bloodstream and your bloodstream

are not yet connected.

The placenta is not in place yet.

The placenta is in place

from the second trimester onwards.

You're only hurting yourself.

Not in the air at the beginning.

Listen, when you're nauseous,

you do whatever the hike you can to survive.

So, it becomes,

your bloodstream and your babies

become really connected

from the second trimester onwards.

So, your question was,

how much of the sugar that you eat

ends up in your baby's bloodstream?

All of it.

When you have a blood sugar spike,

meaning your blood sugar levels

increase after eating, for example,

a big tub of ice cream,

your baby also has a blood sugar spike.

An exact stain, or do we know that?

No, it's a little bit lower than yours,

but it's perfectly correlated.

And they know this because they do studies

on babies.

So, for example, at Oslo University Hospital,

the scientists recruited 200 women

that were going to get a C-section.

And what they did is they drew blood

from the mom's arms before the C-section

and they measured their blood sugar levels.

And then the baby was born through cesarean

and then they took blood

from the umbilical cord of the baby.

The umbilical cord is an external cord

that connects your baby's bloodstream

to the placenta.

And it's actually perfectly representing

the baby's own blood composition.

And they took blood from the umbilical cord

and they showed the perfect correlation.

If a mom had lower glucose levels,

her baby also had low and healthy glucose levels.

And as the mom's glucose levels increase,

the baby's also perfect correlation.

So, your baby does not get just the glucose that he needs.

He gets the glucose that is there.

And so, let me talk a little bit about glucose.

So, glucose has been a foundational part of my work

for forever, for the past.

You know, how long I've been doing this.

And glucose is quite important.

It's your body's fuel.

It's your body's energy.

You need to give glucose to your body by eating carbs.

Now, a little bit is great.

Too much causes issues in an adult body.

So, too many blood sugar or glucose spikes.

Too often, it needs to be on a glucose rollercoaster.

Spike crash, spike crash.

And that leaves you feeling not so great.

It increases inflammation.

It increases fat gain.

And...

How does it impact your nervous system?

How does a glucose spike over and over again impact your nervous system

and your ability to navigate the emotions of the world?

Well, a big glucose spike can create stress in your body, right?

Information and stress.

A big glucose spike can also impact your sleep

and mean that you have less deep sleep.

So, if you take those in combination,

that means your nervous system can become stressed chronically.

How does it impact how you navigate the world?

That was your question.

I think, for me at least, it makes me more unstable.

I feel less resilient.

I feel that I have more emotional swings.

More mood swings.

My own journey came through mental health.

So, for me, big glucose spikes meant poor mental health.

And when I kept on the glucose level steady,

I felt stronger.

I felt...

Calm, steady.

Steady, sturdy, grounded.

I don't think there are any studies yet looking at glucose spikes

and like how grounded one feels.

We should do one.

We're curious about how glucose spikes impact your nervous system

and then how that impacts the quality of someone's life.

Absolutely.

Well, this and the nervous system is impacted by stress.

And glucose spikes repeated glucose spikes

and especially the crash that comes afterwards,

increased stress.

So, they're not a good news.

And, you know, glucose spikes

impact increased information,

correct, in the body.

And that causes stress.

Absolutely.

It makes it harder for the nervous system to regulate

under stress.

Yes.

I think regulation is a really good way to put it.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

If your body and your nervous system

are busy dealing with a glucose spike,

you don't have much energy left to deal with the rest of the world.

Wow.

Yeah.

So, in this study in Oslo,

they took 200 women who had a cesarean c-sections

and they saw this correlation.

Yeah.

And some babies were born with double the blood sugar levels

in out the babies.

That's how much of a wide spectrum...

What does that mean?

They're born to double the blood sugar levels.

So, that means that the concentration

in the bloodstream,

some babies had healthy low glucose levels,

some babies had double

the normal healthy levels of glucose in their blood.

That's a bad thing, right?

That's a bad thing, yeah.

So, very high glucose levels in an adult

means diabetes.

Wow.

We don't want high glucose levels.

So, can a mother give their child

diabetes in the womb?

So, no.

But I would say like a diet that is so high in carbs

can lead to maybe having very high glucose levels in the womb.

So, what happens in the baby's body?

Same thing as in the adult body.

Information and fat gain

as a response to this high glucose.

Now, some glucose for your baby is important and good.

He needs the energy, okay?

But in extreme cases, when, for example,

if you're only eating carbs during your entire pregnancy,

your baby is going to have glucose levels

that are too high.

And you might think, there is, okay, well,

after birth, surely, this must then...

Normalize, right?

Normalize, right?

Yeah.

It'll run around and be okay.

And this is the key thing.

Scientists find

that when a baby is born with high glucose levels

and high fat mass on his body

as a response to his glucose,

he is more likely to get diabetes as an adult.

Come on.

Yes.

Really?

Yes.

This is the whole point

that our pregnancy is important.

Let me give you an example.

Families where moms have two kids.

During one pregnancy,

they had normal glucose levels, the mom.

During the other pregnancy,

they had very high glucose levels.

Both kids, born back to back,

grew up in the same family,

same environment, same food.

The kid that was in the womb

during the high glucose pregnancy,

four times more likely to get diabetes in his lifetime.

Gosh, it's crazy.

It's crazy.

It's crazy.

I mean, mom guilt is already a thing.

And so if you're like a mom,

it's like, wow, I had this,

I didn't eat correctly during this pregnancy,

three, four, five years ago.

Did I ruin my child?

You know, it's just the fear of like,

mom guilt is big already.

I understand.

And my mom, when she was pregnant with me,

she only ate sugar.

She ate Coca-Cola, Coca-Cola,

table sugar every meal.

Yeah, just carbs.

She also had, no.

But you also had

extreme mental health challenges as an adult.

And I was in the cost of pre-diabetes at 25 years old.

So what happens in the womb is important,

but it's not the only thing.

Okay, these increases are still

modulated and impacted by what you do in your life.

I didn't get diabetes.

I was like at 25,

oh, whoa, I have high glucose.

Let me manage that.

I never got pre-diabetes.

It might make a baby a bit more vulnerable to disease.

It's not going to dictate his entire life.

What you do during your life is still important.

But today, if you think about two of your friends

that have the same diet or same routine

and one of them has higher glucose levels than the other,

maybe one has diabetes,

the other one doesn't,

one of the factors that can be incidentally

is what was happening in the room.

And again, on this topic of guilt,

like this is not the mom's fault.

The moms didn't decide that our entire food system

was going to be processed food-based.

They didn't decide that the cheaper thing to buy

is the crisps versus the healthy broccoli.

They didn't decide that the food industry

is going to make highly addictive,

highly sugary foods to get them hooked.

This is not the mom's fault.

This is a societal issue.

This is the system messing up everything for us.

It is not the mom's fault.

So I wanted to write this book

because we need tools for moms

to navigate this toxic food system

that we're in during pregnancy

to try to use these high-leveraged points that we can use

and to use these nine months

as a moment where you can slightly program your baby

to get better odds during his lifetime.

But again, it's not the mom's fault.

And it's the same thing when you're not pregnant.

Like today, if somebody has type to diabetes,

it's not their fault.

It's absolutely not their fault.

It's not a willpower thing.

It's a food's environment thing.

It's because of the food that is available today

and because of big food,

trying to make us addicted to sugar.

It's not the mom's fault.

I hear you guys saying it's not someone's fault

who has diabetes today.

But is it the responsibility to start to reverse it

and make different choices

and start making it saying,

listen, I know I'm eating these highly addictive

sugary things,

but isn't also the responsibility to say

and I've got to learn how to start making healthier choices

and be more consistent in the other way.

Otherwise, I'm going to be stuck like this forever.

I think that implies that it's a choice.

I think it's really difficult

when you feel addicted to the sugary food

and that's all you have access to

and you don't know how to cook.

And so you think you're making the...

Nobody wants to have diabetes.

No.

Everybody thinks that they're buying the healthy food

or they're doing the best they can

and they look at something that says like,

oh, well, this is vegan, gluten-free cookie,

surely it must be better for me than the regular cookie.

Food marketing tries to trap you

into thinking you're making a better choice.

So yes, it is...

The way out, I believe, is through educating individuals

to be able to make better informed choices,

but it's not their fault.

And my whole work is around this.

Like, what are simple food hacks that are not complicated

that can help you break free from these cycles of addiction?

When I was growing up, I had what,

eight doctor peppers a day in the summer

and I thought I was like,

I'm hydrating myself.

It was just eating candy all day.

I sugary things, cookies,

it was just whatever I could eat.

And if I wasn't running six hours a day,

playing in the backyard, playing sports,

I probably got diabetes, I mean, I don't know,

but I think that helped me.

But it's been very hard to break the addiction

of that habit for decades that I had.

Everything is built to make you addicted.

Yeah.

It's not your choice.

There are billions of dollars being spent

on making food extremely addictive.

Billions of dollars in marketing campaigns

trying to make you believe that orange juice is healthy.

How can one single person

break free from this as a choice?

It's not a choice.

It's so hard.

I got it. I love that you're saying this,

but you know Sean Steam is in.

He goes against the other, he goes against that.

And he'll say, I don't know if you want to show over,

but he said, I was the guy laying with like

back pain for months in my bed

because all I was eating was fast food for my whole life.

And I was inflamed and I was overweight and I was beast

and all these pains that I couldn't get out of.

And he said, it was extremely hard.

It was extremely challenging

because there was no healthy food in his city

where he was living in in Ferguson, Missouri.

It was like food desert for miles, right?

But he was like, I had to work so much harder

to go out of the city to find a healthy store

and make conscious decisions consistently.

And it was so hard.

I'm not saying it's like I'm not hard.

But he was like, I did it and I reclaimed my health

by taking those actions.

But you have to make such a conscious effort daily.

I'm not saying it's easy, but I believe it can be possible

even with the pressures of the system at place.

And again, you have to be so committed to what I feel like.

I agree completely.

And you know, with my glucose hacks, that's my first book.

What I tried to give to people with these hacks

is a way to go from zero to one.

Yes.

Small tips that don't take so much pull power

that allow you to start feeling better.

For example, okay, you're going to,

where's the thing you were having, Dr. Pepper?

Dr. Pepper, yeah.

Is that what you said?

Dr. Pepper. Okay, so Dr. Pepper,

if you need to have it because you feel like to do it,

have it after your meal instead of before.

So that you don't create a spike and a crash

that's going to make you crave more Dr. Pepper.

So it's these small little tweaks.

And when you apply them for a week,

all of a sudden you're like, oh, wait,

I feel a little bit less stuck here.

Well, you need eight of them.

I can just do one of them. Yeah, yeah.

And this zero to one is the hardest.

And that's my passion is to be able to change from zero to one.

Because once you've done zero to one,

then you're on your way.

And Sean is very strong and he was able to do that

all without my glucose hacks.

Hard though.

Would have been way easier for him with my glucose hacks.

Yeah, of course, of course.

So it's all the zero to one, the small things.

And these are, he's an exception for sure.

And he was extremely sick.

He couldn't move.

So he was like, I have to take complete control

of changing and learning about these things.

Because he thought, you know, fast food was healthy.

He thought because like it had egg in it,

you can have a big Mac with like a bun in Greece

and it's still healthy or what?

I thought pizza was healthy.

You know, it's like, I used to eat a whole pizza.

I could eat a whole pizza like this still.

Because it tastes so good for me.

But just because I thought like, oh,

this is on the food pyramid.

You know, it's like bread, meat, and cheese.

But it's not or at least, you know,

maybe you can make it healthy, but that was not healthy.

And speaking of the food pyramid,

this just change, are they're making these changes?

What are your thoughts on these new changes for,

I guess, at least in the USA of the food pyramid suggestions?

I'm very happy that we no longer have the recommendation

that says you should have eight servings of carbs a day

as the base of the pyramid.

Because carbohydrates or bread, pasta, rice, potatoes,

these are foods that are full of glucose

that raise your blood sugar levels

that lead to the glucose spike and the glucose crash

that give very little nutrition to your body.

That was my diet for years.

Yes.

And so I'm very happy that this is no longer

as the base of your diet.

And this is true for everyone.

I'm very, very glad about this.

And I hope it's also going to impact school lunches.

I hope that kids and all of them

are going to get just bread and orange juice as their meal.

Just big spikes, huh?

Yes.

Big spikes.

So I mean, the food pyramid now, the suggestions,

do you feel like they got it right?

Do you feel like it's moving in the right direction?

Do you feel like it's 80% overall there?

Or what do you think is good?

And what do you think needs to be improved?

I think my main thought process around this is

what then happens to the food industry?

Because the food pyramid is one thing.

But what does it actually mean

in terms of how we're going to change, how we eat?

Because if you take it to the letter,

meaning like now we're going to eat animal foods

as healthy sources of protein,

we're going to focus on fruit and vegetables

and we're going to eat very few carbs.

That sounds pretty great.

But if this is co-opted by the food industry,

who's like, how can I use this new pyramid

to sell my processed food?

Yeah, yeah.

So I'm waiting to see what happens.

I think it's definitely better than the old one.

100%, there's no question about that.

But then where do we go?

I don't know.

I don't have a judgment yet.

I need a little bit of perspective.

But in terms of the recommendations itself,

let's say it was all organic and unprocessed.

Yeah, it's great.

You feel like that structure is the way to go.

Absolutely, I think it's great.

Yeah, I think so.

Obviously, companies are going to market

how they need to to say, okay,

you're hitting the right things

on the food pyramid,

but it could still be unhealthy for you,

how they process things.

For sure.

And it could still create spikes

and all these different things.

Absolutely.

But in terms of the overall volume

and what's important,

it makes complete sense to me

that we're shifting away from carbs

being the main thing that you should eat all the time

as the base of your diet

and towards healthy animal foods

and fruit and vegetables.

I mean, yes.

Lost up pizza and bread.

That was my diet.

That was your diet.

I mean, I had a steak once in a while,

but it was like, that was the diet

and it was like, no wonder I was exhausted all the time.

Like yawning all the time, exhausted time.

And it wasn't your fault, right?

There was just, this was the message.

I thought it was healthy.

That's what I'm saying.

I think it's healthy.

That is what I'm saying.

Nobody thinks, hmm, I'm going to eat

an unhealthy diet on purpose

and try to feel horrible.

Everybody's doing their best,

pregnant moms are doing their best.

And so I understand that this information

and nutrition advice around pregnancy

can come as making moms feel

like they're doing things wrong and guilty.

The problem is, is that all of these,

all of the signs, all of these studies exist.

They've been around for a long time.

The American Association of Pediatrics

have been talking about this forever.

We have these guidelines.

We have the World Health Organization

talking about bullying, about glucose, et cetera.

Nobody's telling moms about this.

Why is that?

Is it because they think that, oh, moms can't handle it?

No, I think this is key

because it shows you these four high-leveraged nutrients

that are actually very simple shifts

that can make a big impact on your baby's health.

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If moms listening or those who are going to be moms soon,

who are going to be pregnant soon, they're listening.

And you say these four key ingredients.

Colleen, glucose, protein, and omega-3s,

are what they need to create a fertile foundation

for a child's development of their brain

to be set up for more success, right?

More resilience.

More resilience.

More potential for the growth of their brains

to be forming better is what I'm here to say.

If a mother who is pregnant does not get colline,

glucose, protein, or omega-3s in their diet at all,

and they understand here this information,

and they still choose not to get that.

What is that state for their babies' development?

So I will just say one thing.

The glucose part of this book is not about getting more.

It's about making sure you're not getting too much of it.

Okay, having the right amounts.

Exactly.

So if you don't do any of these things,

your baby will probably be fine.

Really?

Yeah, your baby will probably be born

and probably lead a normal life.

And just maybe one day in the future,

they'll have a bit more susceptibility

or, yeah, be a bit more vulnerable

to getting one of these diseases.

Got you.

Because your mom was on sugar all day.

I'm like the perfect example of being

somewhat okay with no colline, no omega-3s,

not enough protein and a lot of sugar.

And look at me.

I'm writing books.

Turn out all right.

So, you know, I thought about this a lot

and as I was writing this book and I called my mom

and I was asking her about her diet.

And yes, I'm fine.

But if I'm being honest,

I've struggled with mental health a lot in my life.

Yeah.

As I said, customer-free diabetes,

I have a hard time with emotional regulation.

I've had aches and pains,

like I have a hard time building muscle.

Are all of these things,

do all of these things take a root in the room?

Probably not all of them.

Do I think knowing what I know today about this science,

do I think that if my mom had had this book

when she was pregnant with me,

do I think that maybe I would feel differently today

as her daughter?

Probably.

I think maybe it would feel a bit better

to be in my brain.

Because by the time your baby is born,

all of his neurons,

so the brain cells that process information

are in place for life.

In the room, you're forming the basic architecture

of your baby's brain.

And then brain cells, neurons, they don't get replaced.

You keep the ones you're born with for your entire life

until they die.

So, my neurons were forming in my mom's uterus

and she did not know about colon

and she did not know about omega-3s,

which are two key nutrients to allow my brain

to form as best as it could.

So, yes, I do believe that maybe if she had known

about colon, which is a fruit and which is nutrient,

you can get in eggs, for example.

So, if she had been eating a lot of eggs

and eating fish and supplementing with omega-3s,

maybe my neurons would be a little bit better today.

I can't know, we don't know.

But what we do have is we have animal studies.

So, we can't do studies on pregnant human moms.

Very unethical, but we can do this on animals.

And so, let me give you the example.

So, let's look at colon, for example.

So, when you deprive a mom of colon,

like a mom, an animal, like a rat mom, okay.

The development of her baby's brain in the womb

stops earlier than it should.

And the baby has fewer neurons than his peers.

Because the mom is missing this key nutrient of colon.

However, the baby is born.

The baby is born and outwards.

It's lives and it's.

Exactly, exactly.

To be honest, we're an entire generation of babies.

Probably you didn't have enough colon in the womb either.

We're an entire generation of people

who probably did not have enough colon.

Why is that?

Because colon is found in eggs, but also in organ meats,

like liver.

And today, we don't eat any more organ meats.

I would only eat the we used to, right.

And this is the case for everybody, pregnant moms or not.

Is this the pregnant woman mom's fault?

Absolutely not.

It's the food industry.

It's the process who is we today.

So, we're all probably babies of low colon moms.

We're mostly okay.

But what if we could change that?

It'd be cool.

But if we could give mom this important information.

We're percent.

So, one thing that scientists do,

they're able to do trials on human moms

where they supplement the moms with extra colon, for example.

So, we can't do the hardcore stuff

that we do on animals,

but we can do in moms, for example.

So, there's one cool study that I'll mention.

There's this test that scientists do on human babies.

So, they put them in front of a computer screen

and they flash images on the screen.

And they see how quickly the baby

racks the new image.

So, moves his eyes like this.

And this may seem inconsequential,

but it's actually associated with adult IQ.

So, the faster you react to the images on the screen

as a baby, the higher your IQ has an adult on average.

And so, what they do is they do these trials

where they give some moms during pregnancy

a colon supplement and other moms no colon supplement.

And then they measure the baby's reaction time

once they're born in the first year of life.

What do they find?

10% higher reaction time, faster reaction time

when the mom had a lot of choline during pregnancy.

Small, small, small marginal changes.

But interesting nonetheless,

because what happens in the room

seems to have a lasting impact on measurable measures

of brain function.

Fascinating, because you're saying this,

I have twins.

And one of them was born, I guess,

more premature or just smaller.

It had to be in the mic you for a little bit of time.

It was like, the other one was more fine right away.

It was like, everything was fine.

The other one was kind of struggling.

The one who was struggling in the mic you,

it almost feels like the reaction time is faster

than the other one that was like fine.

You know, that didn't have like the complications.

And so, it's interesting to see twins

that were born from the same mother,

and I'm curious to see their development

over the years to see what happens.

Yeah.

But this all this stuff is fascinating.

Absolutely.

All this stuff is fascinating.

And these twins have different DNA, right?

So DNA is one thing,

and then the environment in the room is something else.

And they both interact to create unique babies.

And there are buns on this table,

and I want to talk about the reason there's a bun here,

is because of the myths.

Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

Having a bun in the oven when you're pregnant.

Have you heard that sentence?

Of course.

Why do people say there's a bun in the oven,

and why is that harmful to say that?

You know, I don't know where this comes from,

but I know why it's not good.

So telling a mom,

oh, you have a bun in the oven,

implies that the mom is an oven.

And what's an oven?

A passive object that provides heat and time.

Uh-huh.

As a mom, you're so much more than that.

You're not just passive,

waiting around for the next ultrasound,

providing heat and time to your baby.

A better image is that you are soil,

and your baby is a seed.

We all know intuitively

that if you have a seed for like a nice apple tree,

if you plant it in a driveway full of gravel,

or if you plant it in a healthy garden,

it's not gonna lead to the same tree.

You know that.

You know that the soil co-creates the tree's plant.

Yes.

When you're pregnant, it's the same thing.

The nutrients you provide to your baby,

co-create your baby's genetic plan.

And if you provide all the stuff that he needs,

he'll be able to develop more optimally.

And this again, is linked to adult vulnerability

or resilience to disease.

So as a pregnant mom, you are soil.

You're not an oven.

And this is actually, so in my book,

I called the introduction, you are not an oven.

This is like the first idea you have to understand.

You are not an oven.

You have so much more power, so much more agency.

And for some weird reason,

this science has been kept from you.

When with simple tools, for example,

getting enough choline on a daily basis,

you can give your baby's brain the nutrient that he needs.

Because today, for example, in the case of choline,

this is a shocking statistic.

90% of pregnant moms,

90% of pregnant moms are not getting

the bare minimum amount of choline

that is recommended during pregnancy.

90%.

Not because we don't have access to eggs,

because nobody's freaking telling them.

Why?

Big mystery.

I have no idea.

I think it's a sense of like,

oh, moms can't handle all this nutrition information.

It's a bit too complicated.

Or maybe because the medical system

is built around short-term disease prevention

and problems and doesn't take time

to tell you about the long-term potential benefits

that you can impact.

So this is why the choline chapter is so important.

With just four eggs a day,

you get all the choline that your baby needs.

I know four eggs a day sounds like a lot,

but actually it's the easiest way to get the choline.

It's in the egg yolk.

So if you can't eat all your eggs, just eat the yolk.

Make sure the cooked through

is important during pregnancy.

There's also choline in fish and chicken and meat.

There's a little bit of choline in plant foods

and they're a great choline supplement.

Say you can take if you don't eat any animal products.

So easy.

I ate so many eggs when I was pregnant.

Yeah, four eggs every morning.

It's an except the first four months

where I could not eat single eggs.

It's just carbs, just croissants.

I'm sure there's some choline in here, right?

I don't know.

No choline in the choline.

But so choline eggs super simple.

We have evidence that moms are not getting enough.

We have evidence that it matters.

We have animal studies.

We have human trials.

We know it's important.

The American Association of Pediatrics says failure

to provide choline during this important time

can result in lifelong brain deficits.

Really?

The American Association of Pediatrics.

It says that.

Yes.

Can you explain to me, Lewis,

why we're not telling moms this?

I have no idea.

Exactly.

I have no idea.

It's a mystery.

So this is why this book is important.

Wow.

So what we just say then is the biggest nutrition lie

that moms have been told during pregnancy then.

The biggest nutrition lie that your baby will get

what he needs.

Always.

Just eat whatever and the baby's going to be fine.

Eat more calories because you're, you know,

eat for two.

That's a big lie also.

I mean, double the calories.

It's not for the while.

You don't need to double the calories.

And the biggest lie is your baby

will take what he needs.

The correct sentence is your baby will take

where you give him.

Your baby will take what is there

and your baby will adapt.

Just like a tree in different soils,

your baby will adapt.

Your baby knows nature is smart.

Even if you don't eat any cooling,

your baby will adapt and do things differently.

But if you give him all the stuff he needs,

he will not need to adapt so much.

And he'll be able to.

He'll thrive better.

Yeah, you could still grow a tree

in concrete, I guess, maybe.

Maybe.

Like, not really the best growing tree.

Thankfully, the human body is not that extreme, right?

As long as you have air, water, food, a uterus,

your baby will probably be okay.

But actually, not necessarily because,

in the case of choline, for example,

we know that low choline levels

can lead to brain malformations that end in miscarriage.

So we talked a lot about folate.

I don't know if you've heard this

when you were growing through the pregnancy,

but it's like, take a folic acid supplement.

It's very important, et cetera.

Choline is just as important,

but nobody talks about it.

Yeah.

I talked about, you just said this sentence,

eat for two, eat a lot of calories.

I think this brings us to the topic of glucose,

which is important.

So glucose, as I said, is in carbs.

So bread, pasta, coleslaw, rice, potatoes, fruit,

chocolate cakes, et cetera.

You need more glucose when you're pregnant

because your baby needs it.

But how much is the question?

Not double.

10, 20% more, maybe, right?

So kind of, yeah, exactly.

So at the end of the third trimester,

when your baby is really big,

or your baby is a really big,

and they're just about to be boring,

your baby needs 70 grams of glucose per day.

70 grams of glucose is the amount of glucose

in a cup and a half of rice.

That is the maximum, yes.

That is the maximum amount he will need

when he's the biggest he's gonna be right before birth.

So at the very end of the third trimester.

In the first trimester,

you barely need any extra glucose at all.

Second trimester, it starts going up a little bit.

At the very end, the maximum, a cup and a half of rice.

That is not nearly eating double the amount of carbs.

You don't need to eat double that.

So you need to give your baby a little bit.

But if you give your baby way too much,

he's gonna have to adapt in the room

and he's going to put on fat to try to protect himself

from high-degos levels.

And it might create some vulnerabilities,

for example, to diabetes.

And there's a cool thing we have to talk about,

which is the difference between DNA and epigenetics.

So when you conceive a baby, his DNA is set.

It will never change.

Half from the mom, half from the dad.

DNA will never change.

But that's not the end of the story.

Scientists have recently discovered

that there are little tiny switches,

tiny molecular switches that sit on our DNA

and control which genes are on or off.

So DNA is one thing,

but the programming of the DNA is very flexible

and it's a whole other thing.

Is this the whole crisper thing?

That's different, that's gene editing.

But epigenetics, we all have this.

All of our genes are being programmed

by these little switches at all times.

And during pregnancy, you're setting up

the epigenetics, the programming of your baby's DNA.

And so scientists can measure this programming.

They can see which genes are on and which genes are off.

And what they find is that when a mom

has very high-degos levels during pregnancy,

the human baby has genes linked to diabetes

that are turned on more than other babies.

So with your diet during pregnancy,

you're programming these genes on and off.

And this can lead to the long-term increases

in risk that we're seeing.

For somebody who's not pregnant,

what is the optimal amount of carbs someone

should be eating on a daily basis to?

Well, that's a very controversial topic, Lewis.

To have like healthy lifestyle to be, you know,

in fat-burning phase, but so, you know,

enjoying life as well, what is it?

Well, the thing is, we don't actually need to eat carbs.

Really?

Oh, man, that's so good.

I know.

Because if you don't eat any carbs,

your body can make the glucose that it needs from within.

Really?

Yes, from other sources like protein.

Your liver can create glucose, as long as you're eating something.

That doesn't mean we should all eat no carbs.

Most people do fine on like 100 grams of carbs,

but hey, for example.

And which is 100 grams of carbs?

What is that?

Two cups of rice a day.

That means...

Yeah, two cups of rice.

That's correct, yeah.

Two cups of rice a day in terms of carbs is all you should need

or is like the maximum or is like...

It depends so much like if you're an athlete,

you need more because you're using up a lot of glucose

for your muscles.

It depends if you're, you know, if you're maintaining your weight,

if you're trying to lose fat, it depends on so much,

it depends on your individual sensitivity.

If you're a female, if you're a male, time of the month,

like you need to find your own balance.

What is the best use of carbs source for most body types?

Like is that rice?

Is it bread?

Is it pasta?

Like what is...

Very question.

So I would put carbs in two categories.

So we have the starches, which are bread, pasta, rice,

potatoes, oats, and then we have the sugars.

So that's chocolate cake, fruit juice, even just fruit.

Uh-huh.

Starches just contain glucose.

Sugars contain glucose and fructose.

You don't want that.

Your body doesn't need any fructose.

So...

So it doesn't need fruit?

No.

You don't need to eat fruit.

But it tastes good.

Yeah, that's fine. So eat it.

Okay.

Hey, this is...

We're talking about biological DNA, right?

So it's always better to get your carbs from starches

than from sugars like fruit juice or cake.

Now, fruit themselves, whole fruit, is mostly fine

because they contain fiber and water.

So there's glucose and fructose in there,

but because of the fiber and the water,

they're arriving in your bloodstream more slowly.

All that to say, it's up to you

to find your optimal amount of carbs.

You don't need to eat carbs,

but it's a nice way to get energy.

It's also a very social food.

Yeah, of course.

Carbs are a social food.

So I do pretty well, like,

a hundred grams of carbs per day, I would say,

and then I focus a lot on protein and healthy fats, et cetera.

But if someone is trying to, you know,

get in shape, stay healthy, stay lean,

trying to eliminate fat from their body,

you're saying, stay around a hundred grams of carbs a day,

or less, or, you know, it all depends on who and when,

and all that stuff, but if it's normal human being,

who's not pregnant,

and they're just trying to stay lean.

I would avoid giving exact numbers.

What I would say is if you are able

to keep your blood sugar levels steady

by using my hacks, for example,

I feel like you naturally get to an amount of carbs

that's going to support fat burning in your body,

because fat burning is a healthy state to be in.

And when you don't have big spikes and big dips

in your glucose levels, your body can burn fat for fuel.

So it's hard to say a certain number,

because, for example, if you only carbs

where you're staying under X grams,

does that mean you're going to be healthy?

No, right?

It's about a combination of things.

I don't think we should say like X grams of this,

X grams of that.

Even the spikes lower.

Yes.

And that's frequent.

Yes.

And focusing on foods that actually give your body

something really important.

So for example, protein and fats, right?

We can't make protein from within,

so it's very important to give your body enough protein.

So we can make glucose from within.

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How much protein and how much fat should we have?

You want numbers, you're only going to write a whole list for you.

It's on average, like, you know, is it, yeah,

is it based on how big you are?

So for protein, I think it's actually useful

to talk about exact numbers here

because your body cannot make protein from within.

And when we think protein, we often think muscle.

Protein is not just muscle.

So many things in your body are protein.

For example, the collagen in your skin

that keeps your skin healthy is a protein.

A lot of the parts of your immune system are proteins.

They keep you healthy.

They keep you safe from pathogens.

For example, insulin, which is a hormone

that manages your glucose levels, that's a protein.

There are thousands and thousands of types

of protein in your body.

And it's really important to make your DNA makes protein.

The little code in your DNA, what does it do?

It tells your body how to make different proteins.

So it's not just about muscle mass and body building.

And during pregnancy, you're literally building

another human's body inside your body.

It's important to remember that sometimes.

And as I said, your baby, the moment he's born,

is about 50% protein.

She excludes water.

Proteins are everything, everything.

So how much protein do we need?

We've had lots of different methods

to try to measure how much protein

no human needs to eat.

And the more recent methods, they have a funky name.

They call the indicator amino acid oxidation method,

very fancy word.

But it's just saying it's a new method

for measuring how much protein you need to eat

to give your body enough, not just to survive, but to thrive.

And so this method is not showing us

that in a pregnant person, we need about 1.2 grams

of protein per kilo of body mass per day.

In the second and third trimester, we need 1.5.

And during breastfeeding, 1.9.

So breastfeeding is very intense in protein,

because you're putting protein in your breast milk

to continue to feed your baby.

So these stats are core and very important

to learn about for moms.

Most moms are not getting nearly enough protein

during pregnancy.

And what happens is that your body starts breaking down.

You're a muscle.

Because your muscles are full of protein,

break down the muscle, give it to baby.

And that's why we see studies that say

that 30% of moms lose muscle mass during pregnancy.

Wow.

I'm going to look like this curious.

How much protein is in a cup of breast milk on average?

Do we know?

Did you ever study this for the year?

I'm sure we know.

But I don't know.

I don't know.

OK, so Chris, if it has a lot of protein,

or if it's like 1 gram of protein, I don't know, I'm just curious.

It's a good question.

What I do know is that it's a complete source of protein,

meaning it's very high quality protein for your baby.

What's the science behind weird pregnancy cravings?

I don't know, I'm saying like, I want to eat like pickles

and chuckle saw, I don't know, like weird stuff.

So it's still up for debate.

But the pickle thing, scientists believe

that it has to do with iodine.

So iodine is something that is found in the sea salt.

It's very important for your baby's thyroid

and brain development.

And when you crave pickles, it's probably

because you're craving something salty,

something high in iodine.

I craved red meats and kiwis and citrus fruit,

a lot of fruit during my pregnancy.

Maybe it was because of all the vitamins.

That's a big glucose spike, right?

Like all this fruit?

Well, whole fruit is fine.

OK.

But the fruit juice, if you get rid of the fiber,

that's going to be a problem.

OK, sure.

How much fruit is fine?

Like, what if you're eating buckets of fruit

that's still a lot right?

Well, yes, because the fruit that we eat today

has been bred by humans to be very high in sugar.

So if you eat a lot of it, it might cause a big spike.

But what I recap in the glucose part of the book

is all the glucose hacks to help you eat the sweet stuff

without having an apple with a peanut butter.

Exactly.

Putting some clothes on your carbs.

Oh, yeah.

Nice one.

Or having the fruit or the sugar at the end of a meal,

instead of at the beginning.

I burst into protein.

Exactly, yeah.

Exactly, exactly.

So I'm a firm believer that whole fruit is totally fine.

And we should absolutely not demonize whole fruit.

It's the best thing to eat if you want to eat something sweet.

Speaking of sweets, what's the real reason

people feel out of control with sweets and sugar?

I think one of the main reasons is that they

are on a glucose rollercoaster and they don't know it.

And the main culprit is often eating something sweet

on an empty stomach.

Because when your stomach is empty, anything sweet that you eat,

those glucose molecules arrive very quickly

into your bloodstream.

Nothing is slowing them down, which means big glucose spike

and big glucose crash.

And we know that the crashes can activate

the craving center in your brain.

So I used to eat sweet stuff for breakfast all the time.

And then at 10 a.m., I was like, I really

need like some chocolate or something.

More sweet.

More sweet.

Dr. Tapers.

No.

I was like, I need like a muffin.

I go to the coffeeshop and get like a coffee

and a muffin, yeah, something sweet.

And now looking back, I'm like, God, all these years,

I was just having a glucose crash because my breakfast

was sweet and I had no idea.

And then the cycle starts.

Again, because I have the muffin at 10 a.m.

What happens?

Another spike.

And then another crash.

And then all day.

And then it's 11 p.m.

And I've just ordered on Uber Eats like five kinds of ice cream.

And I'm like, how did I get here?

Well, it was all because of the breakfast.

Gosh, you made something from your last time you were here.

It was the chocolate brittle.

Oh my gosh, this was incredible.

This is a recipe in my second book, the glucose goddess method.

Oh, I wanted right now.

It's so good.

It's so easy.

You just get this dark chocolate and you melt it.

And then you put it on this baking sheet

and you put a bunch of nuts in it.

Like I think I made it with pistachios and walnuts for you.

Sea salt.

Put it in the fridge.

You wait for it to harden and then you break it up.

Now, you know why this is a good dessert?

Tell me.

Because of the nuts.

Because those nuts contain protein and fat.

And they're going to slow down the glucose spike

from the chocolate.

She want that now.

Are you having the glucose crash right now?

I'm not carrying that.

I've been eating moonbeam soup for like six days.

I'm kind of just like get more beans and reset

from the holidays because I ate a lot of sugary sweets.

So that was too much.

And so I'm just doing it for a number of days.

But yeah, that brittle sounds amazing right now.

God.

Do you make something while you're here?

Okay.

I'll turn it over to you.

I'll turn it over to you.

Oh my gosh.

It's so good.

That's one of the reasons people feel out of control.

It's when you're eating sweets,

essentially alone by itself.

You're going to have a rush and then a crash.

Even if it's a little sweet,

you miss a couple cookies that sounds like.

Well, listen, having one cookie's going to create

a smaller spike than 10 cookies.

Yeah, a whole box.

Yeah.

And this, and sometimes I wake up in the morning

and I'm like, I want ice cream for breakfast.

And I do it.

And I'm like, this is going to create a big glucose spike.

In all day.

Yeah.

And then I always forget it.

No, regret it.

Because I feel awful.

You know the science.

You know what it's doing to your body,

your brain, all these things.

It's good for an hour.

But then you're like,

and then the rest of the day,

you're kind of like trying to figure out

how to re-regulate your system.

And then the next morning, hopefully, you can reset it.

But it's like, you also sleep worse

when you're doing it all day.

Yeah.

So it's a little bit of a vicious cycle.

And we were talking earlier about, you know,

people feel a victim and trapped in their diet

and it's hard to exit out of it.

Breakfast is a good moment to try to exit out of it.

If you have a protein-rich breakfast,

pregnant is not pregnant.

This is a very great way to stabilize your blood sugar.

And I found that doing pregnancy

when I was on the glucose rollercoaster,

my nausea was worse.

But if I was able to have a little bit of protein,

like I would lay in bed and wake up

and I had some almonds next to my bed

and I would eat them before I got up

and that kind of helped a little bit of protein

before getting up to stabilize my blood sugar.

I mean, pregnancy is a whole thing.

It exacerbates so much stuff.

It's complicated.

Yeah, pregnancy is also highly emotional, highly, you know,

there's some women have more anxiety around pregnancy,

other women have great pregnancies,

but still there's a,

there seems like there's something in the pregnant mom

that starts to switch on where they're thinking

about it more intently when you're pregnant

is what it seems like from my interpretation,

my experience of witnessing it.

You're thinking about your pregnancy,

you're thinking about your choices,

you're thinking about your body, then your body's changing,

then you're questioning your body,

all these different things are happening.

And I can only imagine

what is happening with your mind

and trying to stay calm.

And the hormones.

Yeah, trying to stay calm with all of it

seems extremely challenging.

And so on top of that,

there's the stress of like, what do I need to eat?

Yes.

And it can be highly confusing, very confusing.

Yes.

That's why this book is a nice,

guiding light in all of this.

Your book is called Nine Months That Count Forever,

how your pregnancy diet shapes your baby's future.

I want everyone to make sure they check this out.

You also told me beforehand that

you had a miscarriage before, right?

What was that experience like for you?

How did you navigate and overcome it

and process it?

And how did you step into the, you know,

having your son after going through that experience?

I mean, talk about anxiety, man.

So I was pregnant at first time

and at no point did I think anything bad could happen.

I had no, there was nothing in my field,

nothing in my mind.

I never thought anything wrong would happen.

You're young, you're healthy,

you're given all the right things.

And so the moment of the first positive pregnancy test,

I told everybody, everybody.

I didn't know.

I was like, oh, I guess people wait three months,

but I just, I was like, oh, this isn't applied at me.

I just had no, no conception.

It's happening.

So ultrasound is a heartbeat.

I'm like, oh, my God, great.

Yeah, baby's going to be born in December blah, blah.

And I'm due to go to the second ultrasound.

It was that three months.

And I'm like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Everything's fine.

And I show up and they start, the doctor starts to ultrasound

and this image pops up on the screen.

And instantly I just knew the way.

I was like, something's wrong.

Because the embryo had no groans since the last time.

And it was sort of at the bottom of the screen.

Kind of, you could tell that it was OK.

Oh, man.

It's just sad.

And so I learned that I had what's

called a silent miscarriage.

Meaning in normal, quote unquote, miscarriages, you bleed.

And your body exposes the pregnancy naturally.

My body did not do that.

So I learned at the ultrasound that I had been walking around

for three weeks, thinking I was store pregnant.

But the embryo had some developing three weeks ago.

Oh, my gosh.

So entire life comes crashing down.

I mean, like just the emotional shock of that

was unlike anything I had at the experience.

It was just, I don't even have words.

I remember this one sentence I said to my husband.

And that's the best way I can describe it.

I said, if emotions could kill, I think I'd be dead.

The level of despair that I spiraled into

for the better part of like a whole month was just so painful.

So I had to have a surgery where they take the embryo.

Oh, yeah.

It was a whole thing.

And so how did I process it?

It was just extremely difficult.

Very, very difficult.

And all of a sudden, you see pregnant people everywhere.

Oh, you know, they're happy.

Yeah, they're happy.

All of a sudden, you're like, everybody's pregnant around me.

Oh, no.

It was so painful instead of, so I honestly,

I didn't cope very well.

I started drinking a lot of coffee and just working a lot

and tried to get my mind off it.

Really?

Yeah, I was like, I was numbing completely numbing.

And then, you know, I spoke to my therapist.

My husband, I had really supportive friends,

but it was just a very difficult process.

And two months after that, I was in two miles.

One part of me was still greeting and still incredibly sad.

And the other part of me was like,

I think I want to try again.

And I was wrestling with the sting of like,

do I need to be healed from the miscarriage?

Physically or emotionally?

Emotionally.

Before I'm allowed to try again,

I don't know, I had a sense of like,

do I need to heal myself before I can try again?

And I realized that know that that grief

was always going to be there.

And it was probably going to coexist

with the new pregnancy.

Oh, man.

And so I got pregnant again rather quickly in two months.

And I was extremely anxious

that it was going to happen again.

It was awful.

Because again, I had no external science of anything wrong.

And until your baby starts kicking

and like month five or something,

you have no clue what's going on.

Were you checking your ultrasounds every month?

I was going to the doctor almost every week.

Really?

Hey, make sure it's okay.

I was freaked out.

It's a lot of anxiety.

I was incredibly anxious, very, very, very anxious.

I would cry all the time like for, you know,

for 48 hours before each ultrasound,

I would be crying and sobbing,

security was going to happen again,

walking to the doctor's office.

I was crying.

Everything was fine every time,

but it was horrible.

Very emotional.

Larable.

And until my son was born

and I could hold it in my arms, I was so anxious.

Because you're like, you never know, I guess.

Never know.

So it was very, very difficult.

And what I realized is that we don't talk

about pregnancy loss at all.

And when this happened to me,

I learned some crazy things.

Like all of these people close to me

had experienced this and we're just telling me now.

They never shared it before.

Like my mom was like, oh, yeah, I had three miscarriages.

I was like, what?

My grandmother, I had five.

I was like, what?

You know, tongues on Thai, but it's taboo.

Nobody knows how to handle it.

And it's a heavy thing.

It's heavy, but.

Yes, I guess it's heavy,

but look, when somebody goes through grief in another form,

people kind of know how to handle it.

So heavy things happen all the time,

but the heavy things that we're okay talking about

are easier to handle.

Shash.

So in my book, I talk about all of that.

My entire story because I wanted to put it out there

because the only thing that made me feel better

when I was growing through that

was to talk to women who had gone through that as well.

Not holding on to it.

Yeah.

And to hear that like many people around me

had had a miscarriage and then a successful pregnancy

after us.

Oh, that's good.

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Do you feel like you've,

or where are you on your healing journey of that?

Honestly, today I feel good.

I feel like I've processed it.

But it was probably one of the darkest moments in my life.

But today, I feel fine because my son is here and he's okay.

Yeah, I'm just happy.

Yeah.

So in a way, I'm like, okay,

I can't have a healthy baby.

Like, this is possible.

And maybe it'll come back up at some other point,

writing it in the book was also very cathartic

and talking about it a lot was cathartic,

but it's very, very challenging.

Yeah, I'm reading something

that guys will never know what that feels like.

Yeah.

You know, we'll never know what that feels like,

but their wives are people that have gone through that.

Yeah, it's a very isolated experience.

I can imagine.

Wow, I mean, but I think a lot of women,

even if they haven't had a miscarriage,

it sounds like what is very common for pregnant women

after they deliver a baby is postpartum depression.

And some form of come down,

even though you have this beautiful miracle and gift

that has come into your life.

But, you know, even my wife, Marita,

she's the most positive person I've ever met.

She has tools, she goes to therapy,

she's been doing these things for years.

But she had, I guess it was pre-diabetes,

regestational diabetes like symptoms

during the pregnancy and then pre-clampsia.

And it was rough for her for about six weeks.

And she is super positive and has the tools

and has support and families there.

And you know, has a supportive husband.

All these things are there and it was still challenging

for her and still moments now.

But a lot of women don't have all that support

and they go through extreme postpartum depression.

Did you experience any of that?

And how can we serve moms who have delivered babies

on how to set themselves up for success

after the delivery to minimize those things?

I think food is a big tool.

Yeah.

Because your baby will suck a lot of your reserves

in your body up to a point.

So, for example, if you eat zero colon,

your baby will take a lot of colon from you

up to a point because nature always wants

to make sure the mom survives too.

Yeah, yeah.

So if you and your pregnancy depleted muscle loss,

no colon, all of your omega-3s

taken from you for your baby's brain up to a point.

Any adult with low colon, no omega-3, low muscle mass

and blood sugar spikes and dips will not feel well.

You throw that into postpartum,

huge hormonal shift, steep deprivation, isolation.

Early motherhood is so isolating.

Identity change, everything.

Everything?

No wonder, recipe for not feeling so good.

So if you can use these tools in the book,

if you'll at least have the nutrition part,

not too depleted after you give birth,

it's just very difficult.

I don't have a magic wand.

I also went through, it was very painful.

My baby's eight months now,

but for the first four months, it was rough.

I didn't feel so good.

It's very challenging in so many respects.

Emotionally, mentally, spiritually, physically,

very, very hard, very, very, very hard.

And I was finishing writing this book at the same time,

like, wow, it was just a vortex, vortex.

I feel a bit more stable now,

because he's leaving better also, so it's helping.

It's just a very tough, tender moment of life.

As a scientist yourself and a researcher,

do you have a relationship with God?

Yeah, I do.

How do you wrestle with science and spirituality?

I don't.

You know?

No.

I think it's ridiculous to say that

the only real things are the things

that science understands.

I think it's absolutely ridiculous.

Look at where science was a hundred years ago.

We didn't know about microbe, we didn't know about DNA.

They still existed.

We just didn't have the tools yet.

Did you have a relationship with God during and after

or that I didn't see any of you that supported you

with the isolation and with the feeling of loss

or with the feeling of uncertainty

or the scary like, how did you navigate that?

So I'm very spiritual.