The Invisible Climate Engineers Running Our Ocean

What if some of the most important climate solutions on Earth are invisible?

Not whales, not coral reefs, not even forests, microbes.

Tiny organisms smaller than a grain of sand regulate the planet's climate,

produce a huge number of the oxygen we breathe and move massive amounts of carbon

through the ocean every single day. Scientists are now exploring how some of these organisms could

even help us capture carbon dioxide and fight climate change.

But today's conversation goes beyond micro and biotechnology,

because our guest is asking a much bigger question.

If science understands life so well at the molecular level,

why does it struggle to help us understand how we live?

This is how to protect the ocean podcast, your weekday ocean conservation podcast.

If you want to stay informed about ocean science,

conservation and the people working to protect our ocean planet,

make sure you follow the podcast so you don't miss next week's episode.

Today I'm speaking with Dr. Jose Angle,

Moreno Kebazuelo, a synthetic biologist working in Oxford where he leads research

engineering sound of bacteria, some of the oldest organisms on Earth to capture carbon dioxide

using sunlight and biology. His work sits at the intersection of biology, climate solutions

and biotechnology using microorganisms as light powered living factories that could help us

rethink how we produce materials and reduce emissions. But Dr. Moreno Kebazuelo is also

exploring something deeper. After years inside the scientific systems,

publishing papers and presenting research around the world,

he began asking difficult questions about how science communicates knowledge

and why so much of it fails to connect with people it's meant to serve.

That journey led him right to the book Heartbeats of Consciousness,

a story that blends neuroscience, biology, philosophy and the human experience of understanding life.

Today we're going to talk about microbes that help run the planet,

the promise of biological climate solutions and why science might need to rethink

how it speaks to the world. Here's the interview with Jose and I'll talk to you after.

Jose, welcome to the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Are you ready to talk about microbes

and cyanobacteria? Yes, ready and really say it for that.

All right, I'm excited as well. You know, we don't get to talk about microbes a lot,

but there's such an important part of the ocean that I think it's really important when you connect

with me Jose and you're like, hey, this is what I do. I talk about cyanobacteria. I work with it.

I do research on it and I'm like, okay, this is cool because we need to talk more about microbes,

especially when we talk about climate change, cyanobacteria. There's so much we need to get into.

So we're going to talk about, you know, your research and how you got into it, how you got your PhD

and so forth and where you are today and what you're doing with this. But before we do,

let's talk a little bit about yourself and get to know you a little bit. Let's start off with

who you are and what you do. Hi, Andrea. First of all, thank you for this opportunity.

I am Jose Angel. I'm a molecular biologist based in Oswald, United Kingdom.

I'm from nearly more than 10 years. I have been working specifically with

organizing called cyanobacteria, some of the most abundant photosynthetics

organizing on Earth. So I did my PhD in Spain studying how these

organizing regulates glucose atake and metabolism species lysinecococcus,

blocococcus, which are organizing very interesting because dominated much of the global ocean.

Since then, I have been working in different countries, Spain, Portugal, now in the UK,

including the development of fast-growning, xenobacterial strain,

as a renewable platform for carbon capture and sustainable biomanufacturing.

Today, I am leading Cyanobacteria research in a company called Cyanobacter in Oswald.

In order to produce a wide range of compounds, because you can use this Cyanobacteria

in order to produce the compound like biomedical compounds, biofil and so many

compounds that have a lot of application. But the technical details and publication

decindamos still amaze me is this. And it is disorganizing that I have been studying every day

in the laboratory, irresponsibly, for around half of the oxygen that we breathe,

so thing about that. And most of the people don't even know that they exist,

because we tend to protect what we see, but it is what we don't see that keep us alive.

And that's why I felt such an strong connection with your focus, Andrew,

because protecting the ocean, it is not just about protecting the water,

it's about protecting the invisible system that sustain life itself.

So today, Andrew, I want to start the focus in a slightly different way. And also it's a good

exercise for the audience. So I want you and the audience close your eyes for a moment.

Just three seconds. And now, while you have them close,

feel something happening right now without you having to do anything for it to happen.

And your hair is beating. So you can open your eyes. And that hair bit depends on oxygen.

And around half of that oxygen comes from microscopic marine organisms, not from forests alone,

from the ocean, because the ocean is not, you know, out there. It is circulating through you

right now. When we think about the ocean, you know, most of the people we imagine whales, coral

reefs, sharks, wavecrassians, a cliff, but the true engine, the true engine of this, the ocean

is invisible. It's the phytoplactum. And among them, cyanobacteria, they are microscopic. You can see

drifting in the open water. And yet, they regulate the atmospheric chemistry, absorb carbon dioxide,

and produce oxygen. And actually, let me show you something.

So this may look nothing special, just a green liquid in a flash, but where you are looking

at here, are billions of senobacteria cells performing photosynthesis right now.

So they are absorbed by light, they are fixing carbon dioxide, they are releasing the oxygen.

So this green culture, within our data, multiplies across region of the ocean,

is what stabilizes our atmosphere. And what fascinated me, it has something so visually

and impressive, is biolic, biolic monumental. You don't need a whale to regulate a climate.

Sometimes you need just cells, tiny ones. So now, right, billions of them.

Absolutely. Now here is something extraordinary, because the keen of organisms in

July, so in that flash, one chain the entire planet, because around 2.5 billion years ago,

the ancient cyanobacteria began releasing oxygen as a bioproduct of photosynthesis.

And at the time, Earth's atmosphere contained almost no free oxygen,

life was mostly anaerobic. So oxygen was, in fact, toxic to many organisms,

starting to appear. But over a million of years, oxygen accumulating in the

atmosphere in what we local, the grid, oxidation, event, and that chain, everything,

is transformed, the ocean chemistry is resaid, the atmosphere, it makes complex light possible.

So without that, if there will be no animals, no forest, we won't be here now, having this

conversation. The air, for example, that we bred today in many ways, is the legacy of those

microorganisms. And what fascinated me is this, is the smallest organism in the ocean,

one, resaid the chemistry of the entire planet, because we often think planetary chain,

for example, something massive, like, for example,

tectonic plays, volcanic eruption, asteroid impact.

But sometimes planetary transformation can from biology, from cells, from tiny ones.

The historical purpose of matters, because it reminds us that the ocean is not a passive background,

it's an effective regulatory system, and it has saved air before, and also it

continue to save it now. But, Andriu, here is the paradox, because the same organism that one

resaid the Earth as a sphere, and now living in an ocean that it is changing very, very fast.

Because, as you know, the ocean temperature is rising, the surface water is becoming more

stratified, which limits nutrient mixing from deeper layers, the carbon dioxide dissolves into

sea water, altering its chemistry, and contributing to one big problem that we have know

with this, that it is deacidification. And at the microbial level, this changer, of course,

matter. Because, say, a new bacteria are highly sensitive to light intensity, the

temperature range, nutrient availability, even a small sieve, can alter growth rates,

community composition, and metabolic balance. And because this organism sits at the base of the

marine food waste, chain at a level that don't stay microscopic, because they propagate through

the food waste, affecting primary, productive, for example, carbon cycling, and the dynamic

of entire ecosystem. Because probably most of us, we have, we often say, like, we are warming

the planet. But in reality, we are altering the operating condition of the very organism that

may or resistant possible, and that's all makeups stop. But not of fear, but out of

perpestive, because when you thune out across billion of year of air history, you release something

very important, because we are not outside of the system. We are modifying the same biological

engine that sustains us. And one of the most interesting aspects of this issue is, I think that

is in biologist, is psychological, because Andrew, or nervous system, evolved to respond

immediate, you know, visible threat. A predator, for example, running through us, a fire, a sudden

storm, or a stress response activated when something is fast, loud, and directly threatening.

But, you know, you ask yourself, like, gradual, or say, warming,

microscope is safe in phytoplactone productivity, chain in carbon chemistry, happen over

decades, or biologist, I think that doesn't register those as something like urgent, you know,

because they are too slow, like too astra, too invisible. The most interesting thing is like

we tend to protect what we see, but marine micro-organizing, you know, the real engine of the

most failed regulation are invisible, and invisibility weakens emotional urgency, because when I first

understood that nearly half of the oxygen that we breathe, come from the organism, most people

never see, it generally change the way I thought about connection. It made me realize how much

of survival depends on processes happening beyond our own perception, because that idea is

with me, because when you, you know, once you are understanding that invisible system

sustain visible life, you start asking different questions about responsibility, about

independence, about what is, what it means to live inside an assistant, you barely notice.

Anandrio, when you spend years, because it has been more than 10 years study, you know, this

micro-organizing, you begin to see patterns, because I'm going to tell you something very exciting,

most of the people probably won't know. In biology, we talk a lot about one work called

Omniostasis, you know, the ability of assistant to regulate itself to maintain balance despite

external fluctuation, you know, for example, the human body does this constantly, for example,

temperature regulation, pH balance, oxygen level, glucose concentration, it is like not one organ

acting alone, it's a network, you know, as a society of cells, each cell operating within limits,

each cell contributing to equilibrium, for example, if one cell in the system and that's only for

itself, we call this, it's the thing like, we call this like cancer, because the planet

war in a similar way, the ocean regulate the temperature, it's absorbing the carbon dioxide,

it's distributing nutrients and energy, it's established the atmosphere chemistry, and it is

not just water, it's a regulatory system, and understanding that safe

is producing something very deep in me, because when I was younger, I had a very simple image of

how life works, I thought, you know, most of the people of three as the lungs of the planet,

and in fact, when I was here, once I got a test, it's a photosynthesis, in a big, with a

big sun, and green leaves on it, and that was my mental model, and then, with the patient

the year, I discovered that nearly half of the oxygen with breath comes from the ocean, you know,

from this microscopic marine life, so that moment forced me to expand my understanding of

independence, it was no longer just this, it was the invisible micro-organism, the

sustaining the visible life, you know, that reflection that eventually began one of the foundation

of my book, that I wrote, and I call Herbit of Conscious Net, and in that book, Andrew, I

explore the bridge between what's in explains, you know, for example, neuron cell, metabolism,

regulatory system, and what the concern has of us as human beings, because once that you

understanding that you are literally breathing molecule, processed by marine or micro-organism,

the ocean stopped being an inventory, you know, an environmental issue, it's because it's

become like a personal one, and that connection between science and awareness, for me,

start in the laboratory, we say, no bacteria, and now all of these may sound a bit heavy,

but here is the part that gives me hope, because the ocean is not delicate, it's like a dynamic entity,

you know, microbiology, community, Canada, you know, like ecosystem, can reorganize, life has been

responded to chain for billion of years, serving in a bacteria survive for mass extinction,

they survive for atmospheric collapse, they survive condition radically different from today,

and the question is not whether life Canada, the question is whether we allow the system in

of stability to adapt, and in the laboratory, and we, when we are a study center of bacteria,

we look to different parameters, for example, how life in the city affects, you know, carbon

availability, environmental stress, affect, grow, metabolism, and we don't do just out of curiosity,

we do this to understand the resilience, because solution to climate change will not come from panic,

they will come from understanding how biological systems regulate themselves,

and aligning or technologies and policy with those principles,

because ocean protection is not only technological, it's perceptual,

it's beginning when we shift from seeing the ocean as a backdrop to seeing it as an infrastructure,

like a living infrastructure that regulate the air, the climate, and the conditions that make us

complete a life possible, and that's if impersonation is powerful, because once you understand

that your next breath depends on marine micro-organism, the conversation completely changes,

it becomes less about ideology and more about biology, and Andrew, let's return to something simple,

your breath, right now, as you listen to this, oxygen is diffusing to your bloodstream,

it's traveling through your circulatory system, it's entering billions of cells,

it's power in the neurons that allow you to think, to reflect, to even question what I'm saying,

and a wrongalo-tatosilian trace back to marine micro-organism, not metaphorically,

literally, so the ocean is not out there, it circulates through you, when I grow

herbitos consciousness, one of the central ideas I explored was

the ocean and the ocean are not like a separate path, understanding how life works,

so change how we live within it, and for me studying say no bacteria was not just research,

it was like perpetive, it revealed that we are not a server of the planet, we are participant in

its regulatory system, protecting the ocean is not environmental activity, it's biological

realities, it is the recognition that we are integrated into the very system that we are

modifying, and perhaps when we feel that, not just intellectually, but deeply, it's something as simple

as a breath, the way we relate the ocean will begin to change, because in the end,

it is not just about saving the water, I think it is about understanding the life.

Yeah, it's such an important aspect that we don't think about, as you've eloquently explained

to us, in terms of this process that plays such a big role in our lives, that we don't even

realize, because we don't see this happening, we look at roles of how oxygen is produced,

we look at roles of how carbon is sequestered in the ocean deep through the biological carbon pump,

and it's such an important aspect, and we've talked about it this week with each and every

episode. Take me through Jose, your research in synthetic biology, first just kind of explain

what synthetic biology is to the audience and how you're working with cyanobacteria,

just in general in your research. So I am going to explain this in a way that most of the people

can understand, so synthetic biology, so my work, for example, so in my life, for example,

we have a car and we want to modify this car to do this like faster, you know, like to do

it better, so basically the thing that I do in the lab is like, for example, I am like a kind of

mechanic, so I had this, for example, I remember that I saw this as a new bacteria, I did this

organism and I said, okay, I am going to find a way to integrate a protein and I am going to

start in a way that I can, for example, to put something inside of the cell that allow

like this, this product that I want to express starting to produce in the cell in a way that

just in a, we see a two and in a media, you know, nutrient with carbon and sunlight,

we able, like in the meantime that the cell is growing, we are producing this component

and we can take this component and we can take advantage of that, so basically my work is this

and for example, in my end, there is in this cyanobacteria there are some toxins and we want to

produce something like food grade or something, so I can take this gene and I say, okay, I need to

remove this and I can do some processing the cell that I can interrupt this gene in order to create,

you know, like all the modification that we can think about, like, for example, in my end,

we can, we want to do an faster strain, so I can have a look to the genes that are more relating

to producing, like, some component that can make the cell grow faster and over express this to

produce more copies, it's really exciting because it's something that changes the work because

we are literally using the component that is CO2, the planet is like, you know, we know the situation

in the planet with the CO2 and transforming this CO2 in something valuable, like, for example,

buy a full, like, for example, the one component we are, for example,

Andrea, most, the most interesting thing for the first time, we are starting to produce insulin

in cyanobacteria that we just to release that, so think about the impact, or about this or so many

people having diabetes and now the platform to produce this is in Nicolae, so imagine that now you

can produce exactly the same with an organism that in a green way that you produce like CO2,

sunlight, you produce something like a biomedical compound that is helping the life

of so many people and also at the same time, you are helping the planet, so that's to me,

like, that, I think, when I start to see, I start my PhD in 2016, and when I see this, like,

this organism could change the world, it's like something that is something like,

it just resonates with me and has been more than 10 years and here I am because I always have been,

you know, like, helping the planet and is something fascinating, the thing that we can do with

this organism and also the important of understanding how it war and the impact in the real world.

That's amazing, I love it. Take me back to your PhD, you know, how did you discover,

you know, in terms of working with, with cyanobacteria, why cyanobacteria? Like, obviously,

you said that it makes such a difference, but how did you come up with that thesis of working

with cyanobacteria in synthetic biology? Like, where did it come from? Because, you know,

it's not talked about a lot, I'm sure it's talked a lot in molecular biology, but

did you see it in your undergrad or through your masters or how did you discover that working

with cyanobacteria would be so important? So, I start working in the lab during my master,

I was studying like, different organisms, like, organism that are associated with plants,

like, risovia bacteria, there are some bacteria that can associate same-beose with plants,

and I start doing synthetic biology with these organisms over the species on genes and

these things. And when I finish this, so, you know, a lot of the people has this philosophical

question, like, what is the next? What is the thing that we should do? And I was having a look

in the different PhD topics and these things, and there was a group in, in Cordoba in the

South Spain, that is like, one of the few in the world that they are studying cyanobacteria,

like, different type of cyanobacteria, and there was a project like, very, very exciting,

because they were, the A not that it was, understanding the metabolism, how this organism

won, how, because one interesting thing is like, you know, like, this organism can use,

like, I mentioned, like, CO2 and saline in order to grow, to survive, but most interesting thing,

like, they just discover, does this cyanobacteria has inside of the cell, some transport,

like from glucose, some difference, carbon transport, and the thing that they discover is like,

really, really amazing, because this organism, when they arrive, when they have life, for example,

in the, in the ocean, that they have available, carbon salt, like, for example, glucose,

that they are in the nanomole, are arranged in the ocean, they can take it from the, you know,

from the, from the environment, and it is like a metabolic advantage, because they are like,

this organism, and they are working in order to be very, very efficient, you know, it's like,

even like, with the, with the centuries, like, with the thousand of the year, they are always

compacting the, you know, like, they are very, very small, you know, and everything is like,

okay, how can I be more efficiently, and understanding all of that thing, you know, but my

main thing is like, with this organism, like, when I say, like, because in the, in their website,

they have, you know, like, that they, organism, like, produce oxygen, that they, they was like a lot of

thing that they can do in order to say the planet, it's like, okay, I think this is my field,

because it's like a way that I can use in order to help my planet, and at this, blow my mind,

and with the passing of the time, I studied, you know, different strains, because we have

the strain that grows slow, grow fast, one of them are using from biotechnology perspective,

that are like, the now that we are going, there are fast growing strains, and to me, when I

find this is something that, say, this is like, you know, one of the main reasons that I am

hearing this word is from this. And with the passing of the time, Andrew, I was like, especially,

especially with this organism, because, for example, when I finish my PhD, you need to, you

want to continue inside, you need, you need to do something called post-doctoral research. So I

move to the University of Anglia, Norwich, UK also, in order, because it was published a paper

that they was, they was trained to create like a toolbox in order to modify the fast-growing

strain in order that they, one that we can use for biotechnology, and I studied, I spent two

years developing these tools in order to modify the strains in order to produce components,

and they think, that's the most exciting to me, because it's like, it has been, you know,

it has been like, all we have been, we've seen a bacteria, but it's like, it has been aligning more,

you know, in order to, what can I do to help this in a better way? And this is like the

the topic of my research, in order to modify this strain to produce something that we can

gel the planet and the same time, we are producing different white range of components.

Yeah, no, it's super exciting. When we talk about sonobacteria and their

their role in climate change, right, you know, bringing it back to the people,

you know, obviously there's a lot of medical, there's a lot of medical, I guess,

practicalities that you can use for people, so that's really great.

From a climate change perspective, you know, they obviously played a very important role.

Are there any, is there any research out there trying to get sonobacteria more involved in

sort of, you know, absorbing more CO2 from the atmosphere? Is it possible to do that? I know

there's like fertilization research out there to try and fertilize the ocean with iron, which,

you know, people aren't loving. With sonobacteria, is there any research with climate change to help

reduce climate change or help basically absorb a lot of the CO2 through the atmosphere?

So I am going to tell you something really exciting. After, I finished this

for Dr. Research, I was also before taking the decision to take the lead to move to industry.

I contacted with one researcher in the University of Irvine in California.

They, they think that it was really interesting to me, they were collaborating with the NASA

in order to create, like, they, they think it was, they think that they were doing, like,

was really, really interesting because they was doing ocean grouis around the wall

in order to measure in the population of China, bacteria, most of the, you know, phytoplactone,

you know, different organisms that are part of that. In order, like, they can quantify, like,

in every part of the ocean, what are the, for example, how many, like,

percentage of the organism, they could create, like, plants in order to create, plants for climate change.

But it's something that it is like a currently in a stadium.

But, for example, in the ocean, there are, like, you know, if I mention there are, like, so many

phytoplactone, it's about, like, just not, by some of the bacteria, some of the bacteria is

most important, there are part of, for example, diatomens and so many organisms. But most of the,

the organism that produce most of the oxygen of the wall is called prochorococcus. It's like a very,

very tiny cells. And yeah, we need to, the main thing that this, this is, this is specifically a

strange, very, very sensitive, because it's more chain in the temperature, cool effect to the,

to the population. So now is start to, to decline to decrease the population a bit of this.

But in order to do something, you know, at a global scale is something that is not an easy thing.

And also, I don't know if you heard about that, but there was some, there was a paper, it was from,

probably, five or seven years ago, that they, okay, there are some research that they want to,

you know, I say, we, for example, adding more iron to the ocean, you know, we will be in

also in, in ancient, you know, like the, increasing of these microorganisms. But there is another

response to that, that there is, there is something very, very controversial, because when you do

that, you chain, they complete the state of all of the, all of the ecosystem that they are living

together. And it is something that, I think that the main thing that we need to do is taking care of,

death in the, that we have. And yeah, because it just a small chain could make a, like a draft

illicit in all of the population. For people who are listening in the audience, who are like,

look, these microbes, obviously, they have some importance to them, you know, but, but they're

just like, we don't see these things all the time. And every time, you know, they focus on algae,

you know, they think of bad things associated with algae. How can we get people to think

more positively about things like cyanobacteria or algae in general?

They have like a, some cyanobacteria that there are toxin, and we can, you know, like go to get

like a swimming in the, in, you know, during the summer. But it is like happening, like not in a

very globally way, there are, of course, there are some cyanobacteria that has, and also some

microorganic that has inside of the, you know, some, I don't, I don't, I don't want to be like here,

like very, very scientific way, but has some genes inside that they will be able to produce

some toxin normally in a very low, low concentration. But we say that we don't see this,

this organism, but for example, I'm going to tell you two years ago, I was in Thailand,

and it was an eye, an eye was in a boat, and I see this organism glow, because there are some of

them that has inside, or then some genes that they can, that they will be able to produce by

a luminescence, and it is something really, really exciting. I recommend all the people that have

the opportunity to see, but the message today is like it is not like an organism that it is like

producing an illness, or it is not most of the strain of, when I say in a strain, like I am,

and telling like we have like a different type of organism, like, you know, I mean, this is like

one type, we have another type, you know, like different in general, but

it's not something like bath for the injured, orbital bath for the head, like in some case,

in a very specific circumstances, there could be like a

circumstance like there is a bloom of this bad organism, but it is not something that

happens very, very, very freckling, global scale, that you, for example, are in the ocean and say,

oh no, you know, I need to be care about this, organism that I am going to be, this is like a

represent like a threat for that, but absolutely no, you need to, I recommend all the people to read

moda about this and think about this, because most of the people are andreucing, oh, we need to

save the forest, you know, but less thing about the ocean, because it's like the other land

of the planet and be conscient about this and what is the thing that we can do in order to

to help the ocean. Yeah, I think it's interesting, because you know, we see, we see a lot of people,

you know, I see it now. One of the things I see right now is like, you know,

sargasm is on the beaches and in the Caribbean and people are freaking out because they see this,

and it's a climate change thing, it's increasing more because of climate change, but the seaweed

also helps, you know, sequester carbon. Same thing with, you know, some of these microbes that we

that we don't see. I guess, and there's such a knowledge gap in microbes, even for myself,

and as I learn more and more, I start to get, especially this week, because I did research for

the episodes this week and your episodes, I'm always impressed by what microbes are able to do

in the ocean and for us as a planet. But if there's, you know, there's still a knowledge gap, so if

there's one thing you wish people understood about microbes in the ocean, what would it be? That's

a difficult question, Andrea. I will try to understand this, like, not like a single, you know,

like a single unit, understand everything like a chain that all of us are part of this ecosystem,

and we are living from that. We are living together, and yeah, like, for example, like putor,

you know, like thinking about the thing that we can do in order to help the planet, you know,

like, for example, we see, like, when you see, like, for example, the new, like, you see, like,

the ocean, like people putting a lot of garbage on it, it's like, you know, like, for example,

on some countries, like India or Bangladesh, that you see, like the place around that you say,

how this can be possible. For example, so many factories, like, we're producing so many

CO2, the asthma fair about that. We need to think, like, this organism is helping to deal with

a problem, a problem, like, very important problem that we're suffering in a way that is, like,

the greenhouse effect, because, as you mentioned, they are kind of, these gas, these terrible gas

that we are producing and we are posting in, like, the earth, every year, more, more, more,

they have the ability, same thing that the planet anyway, more efficiently, to capture this CO2

and the same thing, okay, we are taking the CO2 and at the same time, are releasing oxygen,

and the thing that I do in the life is, like, exactly the same process, but at the end,

I am releasing oxygen, but producing a compound, a compound that, even, like,

think that you can even imagine, like, everything that will change, that you can think we can produce,

so it is like something that, I am starting to communicate a lot about that, you know, like,

for example, doing a lot of, you know, there's some, most of the people, and even with my book,

I started to talk also about the, the sign of bacteria, and most of the people, I think, like,

they don't understand this and they don't have a idea about the, the thing that they are capable to do,

because this, this, the problem is life from the secondary school that they teach,

I was telling, like, the oxygen is released by the forest, by the trees, but there is no,

no mention in the book, there's a list that I have seen in, from this organism and now,

I think that with the passage that I am, people will take a more concerning and a bueno about this,

but I think that the situation is starting to change, because most of the people that I know,

with the passage, like, you know, like, when I, I'm doing, like, event in order to communicate,

these more, like, people are trying to be more aware about this.

Yeah, and it's interesting, you know, you talk about getting people more aware.

What, what do you think scientists should do differently if they want their work to actually

reach and influence society? Well, I think, Andrew, like, the main problem that we have is

scientists, in science, sometimes, we don't have, in obvious ability, because we produce,

like, for example, so many papers, you know, we publish a paper in nature, or something like this,

like, something like, yeah, very, very important. But for example, you will never see, like, on TV,

oh, this kind of research group had discovered in the ocean, when my caravanism, that, you know,

we can do something for healing the planet, because, you know, like, I think that there is, like,

the message to that, to the general people, or, for example, it is not, like,

something that they are thinking that they are relevant, or they can, you know, like,

and more audience. But I think, like, the main thing that we need to do is, like, give more

visibility to scientists, because, even, like, for example, when science went to communicate,

like, for example, in the past, when it was working in the unity, in the university, sorry,

the way that we do it, for example, we went to different high-secondary schools, you know,

people was in the moment that they need to, that's very, very, I really like that when I was working

in the unity, because we go to gift-talk, in, for example, I mean, that you are just finishing,

you are doing science, you know, like, studying, and you're studying to see, and say, okay, what's

they do? I am like, something that I really feel, like, fulfillment, like, with myself,

like, for example, when you, like, for example, give people, tell people, okay, we have this

organizing, we can do that, you know, it's a thing, and people say, starting to study in this,

it's a thing that change, you know, like, this is something that produces, like, a deep change

and to that, but the thing is like, yes, I think that the main problem is, like, we don't have

visibility, we think, like, we need to do something, but thanks to people like you, and another,

like, entities, like, give visibility to scientists, and this interviewer, for example, when I saw

your pocket, this is like, this is like, this is something that should be like, you know, even on TV,

or something, why don't, you know, the ocean is like, but I am telling you, and with the

passage of the time, we will remember this world, because this will be like a massive impact,

because now, you know, like, this thing that, for example, I was telling you about the insulin,

is something that we just discovered, and we will see, we have a schedule with the BBC in order to

talk about this, you will see, like, when this happens, like, when people will be, oh, they know,

this organism producing insulin, because then we are going to finish with all of the resource,

and we have this organism that uses the CO2 and this, and will be like, the, absolutely, the game

changer. I completely agree. Jose, this has been absolutely amazing to have you on the podcast,

and be able to talk about this, talk about micro, talk about your work with sound of bacteria,

I think it's such an important aspect to, to the work you do, and I'd love to invite you back

on to talk more about some of the work you do in the future, and we would, we'd love to hear

more about microbes, because we just don't know enough about microbes on this podcast, and we need

to know more. So, again, Jose, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it,

and we'll talk to you soon. Absolutely. Was a pleasure, and thanks for this opportunity,

and great job, and congratulations to you, Andrew, for being this really a war, because thanks to

boys like you, like, we are like taking all of the boys of the scientists and amplifying this,

it let the thing that we are like doing the real difference in the war. So, thank you for this.

You need to be proud of that. Well, thank you very much. I do appreciate it. It's a lot of hard work,

as you know, and it's, but it's, the reward is worth it, and so, really happy to say that,

yeah, we're really happy that this, this is, this is being done, so we appreciate it. Thank you so

much. Thank you. Was a pleasure. Thank you, Jose, for joining us on today's episode. I have

the hat to protect the ocean podcast. It was great to have you on. Learn so much today about,

and just this week about microbes, you know, this is a subject matter that I was not as familiar with,

but I'm bringing it to you because I want it to teach you something new, because this is where

you learn about the ocean, and something that I feel is important that we learn all aspects of the

ocean, not just something that I'm familiar with. So, going outside my comfort zone, learning something

new, just trying to be curious and seeing what we can cover on this podcast. And Jose,

just summed it up nicely in terms of bringing what biotechnology is, how we can use microbes to

help us in our climate solutions and other solutions, and how important sound of bacteria is,

that's something that I didn't know when I first started. So, it's great to be able to learn

something new for myself. I hope you learned something new as well, and I'm going to put links to

Jose so you can get access to him in a future date. And of course, if you have any feedback or

questions, I'd love to hear you, I'd love to hear from you, just go to speakupforblue.com,

forward slash feedback, that speakupforblue.com forward slash feedback. I want to hear your feedback,

either in a voicemail or just type it out. I'd love to hear your questions, comments, concerns,

whatever that might be, just hit me up. And of course, if you want more of this type of

information, just hit that follow button so you don't miss Monday's episode, which is going to be

a lot of fun. We're going to be talking about fisheries next week, so it's going to be a lot of fun.

So, I want to thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of the How to Protect the

Ocean podcast. Have a great day. We'll talk to you next time and happy conservation.