The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #176 with Dustin Poirier

The Joe Rogan Experience.

Showing my day, Joe Rogan podcasted my night all day.

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It's gonna be back, bro.

Dustin Poie, the light heavyweight.

It's thick boy summer.

You look at healthy sun.

Yeah, like 190, man.

You look good, man.

I feel good, dude.

It feels good to eat in that count carbohydrates and calories.

Yeah, we were talking about that.

Like, still like a little part of you.

Like, looks at meals and goes, uh.

Well, I mean, for the last 20 years,

I've been macro and, you know, I knew I had a fight coming up.

Even if I didn't have a fight, I had to be in striking range from 155.

Right.

So I was always looking at the back of every label,

being real cautious and what I eat.

It's like ingrained in my daughter now.

When we go to Whole Foods, she'll grab something off the counter

and say, that it only has three ingredients.

Like, she knows what's up.

Well, it's good to think that way anyway.

For sure.

Especially with the ingredients.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's the first thing she goes to.

Like, if she wants some chips,

it only has five ingredients.

That's like a thing for her when we're shopping.

Yeah.

Well, that's smart, man.

That's cool.

You're raising them right.

I'm trying to, bro.

I'm trying to put the stuff I learned in fighting, you know,

all the years.

Yeah.

It's good news.

It is kind of crazy.

I think it's the worst thing about fighting is the weight cutting.

Do you imagine if everybody just, first of all,

tell me if you agree.

But I think the UFC needs way more weight.

I do too.

Way more.

I do too.

Because the gaps are so big.

I mean, just if you look at boxing compared to Mix Martial Arts,

the jumps in weight are so big from each weight class.

But also, all the shows they're putting on,

they'd have more titles, more belts, more big fights.

But also, man, with that, there's going to be a lot of people

trying to cut a little bit extra, trying to be double-champ in every

weight class.

I think it does cause more confusion.

Yeah, but that's better than the extreme weight cuts.

You saw that, dude, a few, like,

I guess it was about three events ago,

who face planted and got removed off the card.

Yeah.

That is crazy.

You're getting someone to the brink of death,

24 hours before they have an MMA fight,

which is the most, if not the most dangerous sport,

one of the most dangerous sports in the world.

For sure.

And you're doing something to your body to extremely weaken it,

24 hours before you fight.

It's bananas.

Dude, I did it so many times.

You preach it to the choir.

I know.

There's been so many times I felt like that,

like, stand up too quick after a weight cut,

and I'm like, you know, I might go down.

Oh, dude, I mean, I can only imagine,

when you see someone like Pereira that's cutting,

like, 25 pounds and more, when he was 185,

I mean, that guy was fighting inside the octagon

at 225 and weighing in at 185, 24 hours before.

That's crazy.

And even when he's big, he's lean.

You know, it's not like he's fluffy.

Well, they say that when you're muscular,

it's easier to cut weight.

More water.

Yeah.

Yeah, which is counterintuitive.

You see a fat guy.

You're like, oh, that guy can cut weight.

But you really can't because you can't replenish your fat.

Right.

Not in a training camp's time, eight weeks,

ten weeks, you can't lose, like, 30 pounds of fat.

But I don't think you can dehydrate yourself.

I said, replenish, like it was a real word.

You can dehydrate yourself.

I don't think it is a word.

Deplenish.

Well, if you can replenish.

Right.

But no one says deplenish.

Can you replenish?

No.

You say deplete.

But I just threw it out there.

Like, it was real.

I don't think deplenish is a word.

Is that a word?

Yeah.

It is?

I don't think you ever used it that way.

Oh.

Okay.

Nice, man.

Nice.

I got lucky.

That was just luck.

But I talked to Hunter about it.

Hunter Campbell.

And we're trying to figure out a way.

Um, without, it has to be more weight classes.

I mean, California instituted a bunch of different weight classes.

I think, um, I think they were doing it every 10 pounds.

I think California also did like a percentage of your, your body weight.

I don't know.

What was it?

15, 20%.

You couldn't dehydrate more than that.

That guy handy fosters on the ball.

And I think that's good, you know?

Yeah.

20% or whatever.

Some kind of rule where guys aren't cutting 50 pounds.

40 pounds.

Still crazy.

Yeah.

Still crazy.

Yeah.

You're right.

200 pounds, 40 pounds.

I mean, it's a lot of weight.

Well, that's another thing that freaks boxers out when I tell them that there's a weight limit

at heavy weight.

It's 65.

That doesn't make any sense.

I go, I agree.

Why is there a weight limit for heavy weight?

That's crazy.

Dude, that, that, that gap too, like 205, anything over that, you can be 210 to 265.

That's crazy.

A 50 pound gap that you, you know, but.

Well, heavy weight in boxing, like, look, Mike Tyson, when he was in his prime, was

only like 220 to 15 to 20, you know, that's where he, when he was dominating, that's where

he kind of fell in that weight limit.

I wouldn't, I think it would be a good idea, anything to pass like 230 to 35, super heavy

weight.

Yeah.

You know?

Well, the difference been boxing, though, is the grappling.

The grappling in MMA, the gap, if a guy gets on top of you, is immense.

Yeah.

Like, in Ghana, when he was in his prime, was weighing over like 300 pounds and then

cutting down to 265.

He was a 300 pound natural.

He's a guy who's like a knockdown power for sure, but grappling, like if you get a big

guy who's 265 and knows how to grapple very well, wrestled his whole life, they get in

side control or half guard, you're not getting up.

That's the end of the round.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Also, if they did do a super heavy, the fights might be either awesome or it's completely

suck.

I think it should be, heavy weight should be unlimited.

And then you'll find out, yeah, because like Kane Velasquez, no one's holding that

dude down in his prime.

Even when he was 240, when he was 240 and he fought Lesnar, Lesnar was gigantic, but

it didn't matter because the cardio that Kane had and the speed and his technique sort

of it.

He was ahead of his time.

Yeah.

He was ahead of his time.

He was like a hybrid, can do everything, great cardio, good athlete before MMA got to

where it's at now.

Yeah.

And the fight that I always say that we missed is Kane and Fedor in their primes, because

they were bolting their prime at the same time and they never made that happen.

When UFC absorbed the pride roster and stuff, I was crazy, it's crazy that Fedor never fought

in the UFC at all, man.

Well, they tried, the UFC tried, but Fedor's management were a bunch of very dangerous

dudes.

Yeah, you don't mess around with this guy.

Fuck it.

Yeah, man, there was like tense negotiations and they wanted a percentage of the promotion.

They wanted a lot more than just a big purse.

Yeah, UFC's not playing that game.

No, they were like, look, we'll give you a very healthy purse, we'll bring Fedor over

here.

But the problem was when they purchased pride, they thought they were getting everyone's

contracts, but the contracts were all bullshit.

Well, some guys came over on crazy, crazy money contracts, I think Dan Henderson might have

been one.

I was a young fighter one time and I was making this might have been 2013 or 2014, I don't

know.

And they came to give me my check.

This is back in the day before they wired, they used to give us checks on fight night.

And they had, they were going through the checks and I saw Dan's and I saw the number and

I couldn't believe it.

This is before like people posting online fighter pay and all that and I saw the numbers

he was making.

I was like, no way, guys, Rich, this is a make it angry.

Nah, nah, because the future myself looking back or looking forward when guys are going

to be fighting for belts and stuff, the money they're going to make in five years, I'm

going to be, I'm going to be that guy like, damn, you know, I got out too early or, you

know how it is, the next generation always gets more, Mike Brown tells me that all the

time.

Do you, I was fighting for the belt and WEC defending it, making this, you guys on the

prelims are making more than I was making, you know?

Yeah, there's a weird, that sort of discussion about fight or pay, you know, I've always

been of the opinion that fighter should be making more money period because like the

same way I feel about like the way I run my comedy club, the comedians make 80% of

the money because I feel like that's who's, you're paying to see, you're paying to see

them.

We make plenty of money like with drinks and 20% of the ticket sales, it's like it's

enough.

Like it should be the, if we had a comedy club and there's no comedians, no one's coming,

right?

No one's going to pay just to sit there and buy drinks.

Like the whole idea is they're paying to see someone's work.

If you fight, that's what people are paying to see, they're paying to see fighters.

Without the fighters, there's no show, without the comedians, there's no show, I understand.

But I think the big thing with the discussion of fighter pay is the percentages.

Yeah.

When you look at other major organizations like NFL, NBA, the percentages are so, so different.

Yeah, it's not good.

But dude, at the end of the day, I'm all for fighter pay too.

I've been fighting my whole life, but you sign the contract, you agree.

This is how business is done.

Push for, try to get more of what you worth, you know, you can't sign a contract and

complain.

Right.

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That's true too, but also it's like the reality of MMA is if you're not in the UFC, people

are not paying attention.

That's unfortunate, but it's reality.

I think there's some really good fighters that fight in the PFL and really good fighters

that fight in one, but no one knows who they are other than the hardcore dudes.

Right.

Yeah, I got a buddy, Johnny Ebblin, who was the Bellator champion.

Awesome.

I've been training with him since he started MMA when he got out of college wrestling and

stuff.

Right now, he can go to the UFC and give the top five guys a run for their money.

Absolutely.

No doubt in my mind.

He's only getting better.

Yeah.

Just because you fight in the UFC, that's a great organization to fight for.

The biggest, the most known worldwide, but, dude, there's great fighters everywhere.

You know, like on the mats at American Top Team, there's a dozen guys you've never heard

of that can make a run in the UFC right now.

That's what I heard as a nightmare about training at American Top Team because it's a revolving

door, man.

A hundred professional fighters on the mats at all times.

Different camps.

They have dorms.

So guys are from Russia.

Guys from all over the world are just in.

You never know who's going to be there and it's tough rounds, you know, every practice

and stuff.

Well, not only that, but I've heard there's like guys coming in from Russia and they'll throw

oblique kicks at your knees and you're like, hey, man, like, what are we doing here?

We're getting ready for fights.

We're not in a fight.

Right.

Yeah.

Like, some of these guys are trying to make their name off of a name guy and so you have

to be very selective in who you're spar with.

For sure.

And that's any, not just American Top Team, especially guys who are established, like if I go to

any gym here in Austin and it's open matter something, I have a target on my back.

Of course.

You know, that's everywhere.

Of course.

But those guys, man, like at a big gym like American Top Team with the knowledge and the

good coaches, those guys get weeded out.

That's, you know, you won't stay there long if you're doing that stuff.

The problem is if you're one of the guys that has to weed them out, like you find out

early on, this dude's, you know, throwing wheel kicks, full blast.

And then it happens all the time.

Oh, yeah.

Well, there's, you know, make sense.

I mean, you're from Dagestan or Chechnya or whatever, and you come to America, it's like,

this is your big chance.

And I do like to train hard to prepare for a fight.

You got to fight.

But, you know, you got to take care of each other.

We're professionals.

We're feeding our family with this.

Yeah.

And injury can ruin everything.

Well, there's so many fighters that get concussions in training and then, you know, they get chenny

when they get into the fight.

It happens all the time.

Yeah.

There was a lot of guys who got hit, me, yeah, like the early days, we didn't really

have classes that were organized, man.

It was just sparring and choking each other out and with four ounce gloves sparring, like

we didn't know.

Well, we didn't know.

Isn't that crazy?

Like 2006, dude, we used to beat each other up every day.

That was MMA training.

And then it wasn't these super gyms where everything was under one roof.

I would drive to a boxing gym, drive another 45 minutes to a jiu-jitsu gym.

You know, it was put everything together on fight night, but you would train everywhere

else because there wasn't mixed martial arts gyms back then, really.

I would drive to a kickboxing gym, boxing gym, wrestling, jiu-jitsu.

It was all separate.

Well, also, you were in a place that didn't have like a high volume of MMA fighters in your

state.

Right.

Back then, like Rich Climini, Melvin Gallaud, were the big guys from Louisiana, you know.

Right.

And then Crater came and got...

Crazy Tim.

Crazy Tim.

Crazy Tim got on the ultimate fighter.

And then I went to his gym once he got out of the TV show, and I, me and him, trained

for years and years.

He still has a gym in life at Louisiana.

I loved him.

I'm known Tim since I first worked out with him in like 98 at Machados.

Well, he was in maybe the Navy.

So he was in California station there, and I think that's when he started jiu-jitsu.

He was Louisiana's first black belt.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I knew him from that.

He was fighting, and he was fighting in the UFC.

And he was always around the MMA scene, him and Eve Edwards, were good friends.

They opened the gym maybe in Houston or something.

He was cornering Eve and pride, and then I met Eve through Tim, and it's just, it's a big

family, man.

Eve is a guy that I always say there was a time where he was the best 155 pounder on

Earth.

When he beat Josh Thompson, he's the uncrowned champion.

He should have been the uncrowned champion.

There wasn't a belt.

I know.

And that nuts.

And that nuts.

That's so hard for people to understand, like how crazy it is.

Like being through the lineage of jiu-jitsu, man, it sucks to say, like, that he can't

say he was a champion, but I know he was.

He was.

He was the best.

He was the best.

And at one point in time, he was the best.

He lived out here before he moved to LA.

So before I moved to South Florida, the training American top team, I used to drive six hours

here and stay with Eve.

He always had wrestlers down here.

This is like beginning of my WEC days.

I would drive down here and train with Eve, man.

He was another guy who was ahead, back in the day, because he comes from NHB.

Like hook and shoot, the crazy days, you know, and he was doing it all, good jiu-jitsu, good

kickboxing.

He fell in love with wrestling.

I was such a big fan of Eve, man.

He invented some moves, too.

You remember that one thing that he would do where guys were on a single and he hit a

dude with a flying knee, a jumping knee?

That was, dude, I'm going to make a story in, bro.

That was a lead XC, I believe, maybe.

Was it?

You know, that was Edson Burto.

Was it?

I think Andre Burto's brother, the boxer.

Wow.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

He had a single leg.

He was hopping and then jumped up and neat and out cold.

Yeah, it was crazy.

It is a lead XC.

Look at you, bro.

I mean, pray that again.

Look at this.

This move is brilliant.

That's brilliant.

That's Edson Burto.

Well, and I believe Andre and Edson's dad was a mixed martial artist.

Oh.

Yeah.

That's such a slick move.

Yeah, he's so crafty, man.

Oh, yeah.

Well, that head kick that he lent on Josh Thompson from the middle

of that wild, crazy scramble jumping roundhouse kick to the head.

Dude, and they still play it every opener at the USC.

Yeah.

They still play it.

As they shit, I mean, it was incredible.

Absolutely.

Yeah, I got to, you got to give credit to Eve.

He was one of the real pioneers.

For sure.

And way before this was cool.

Yeah.

Way before.

To be stuck at, like, 155, like, that was his weight class.

And then there's no title.

Yeah.

They were the two best guys in the world at that time, him and Josh Thompson.

Yeah.

Josh Thompson's another one doesn't get the credit he deserves.

That's it.

Boom.

Like, what a slick move, man.

But that was Eve, very creative, you know?

Yeah.

Man, Josh Thompson, like, peak Josh Thompson from me.

What was his strike force when him and Gilbert Melinda's maybe were going back and forth?

Didn't have like a goodness.

Yeah.

They might have had a trilogy.

It might have been two or three fights.

But every fight was amazing.

Gilbert Melinda's another guy who doesn't get the credit he deserves.

Dude, legend.

Legend, man.

Legend.

All those guys, they were the groundbreakers.

You know, a lot of these young kids coming up, you bring up Gilbert Melinda's, they're

like, who?

Like, bro, you need to know your history.

You need to know how this thing got started.

Go watch.

Even more newer stuff.

Go watch him in Diego.

Yeah.

Sanchez, right?

Slug it out.

Diego Sanchez is another guy that I say is a tweener, right?

He's a welterweight.

Yeah.

I mean, he really wasn't really a welterweight.

And you know, and lightweight, and he tried to get down to 45 for a while, but that was just

brutal.

He was killing himself, getting down to 45.

I remember seeing him making weight for 45.

I'm like, oh, this ain't good.

This ain't going to last long.

No.

Yeah.

But if like, there was a 165 pound weight class, Diego Sanchez might have been the champion

of the world.

Right.

Honestly, man, like, when I was competing, if they had a 65, I might have entertained

it.

It's too big of a gap because I trained with 70s in the UFC, and I know they're 200

something pounds.

And my heaviest, I was like 182, 183, maybe.

They're just too big, man.

Well, he got guys like Rumble Johnson, when Rumble was alive, Rumble got up to 230 pounds

in between.

No, he was huge, man.

Huge.

Huge.

I can't believe he made 170.

I remember.

He was, he was living in South Florida.

So I see him every now and then he was huge.

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He was the ultimate like, wait cutter, like he cut more weight than anybody when he was

fighting at 170.

It was bananas.

Like, how are you doing this?

I remember running into him at a hotel.

I was like, bro, how big are you?

And he was laughing.

He's like, I'm 230 right now.

And muscle.

Jack.

Yeah.

Like a heavyweight.

And he went up to heavyweight.

Crazy.

He was a legit heavyweight.

Yeah.

Dude, Andre's still fighting.

I know.

And winning.

The bear knuckle champion.

Winning.

He's the bear knuckle champion.

Like, how durable is that motherfucker?

For the years and the miles of that guy has, I have to say, like, taking shots receiving

damage.

I don't know if he takes it like he obviously doesn't take it like he used to, but his mobility

and his movement for all the wars he's had in the years he's been fighting.

When I watch him in the gym, dude, he's light on his feet, flexible.

Yeah.

He moves so well.

And enthusiasm, still has enthusiasm for the game, which is crazy.

He loves it.

He clearly loves it.

I mean, he was what?

UFC Heavyweight Champion in 2005?

Yeah.

Wasn't like 2005?

2005 or 2006?

2006, I think he beat Tim Silvia, maybe.

When he was the champ, first of all, that motherfucker had a piston for a right hand.

I remember when he caled Paul Buentello.

Oh my God.

That's a Texas guy.

Paul Buentello.

Another dude.

I believe he's from Galveston area or Corpus Christi or something.

He's from Texas.

Well, if you think Arlaski from 2005, and he was a top 10 heavyweight, as recently as

like 2023, well, when he came back to the UFC after that long gap, he went on a streak.

He had a bunch of great fights.

I think he knocked out Travis Brown.

Pete Travis Brown.

Which is crazy.

Did he fight Bigfoot?

Did him in Bigfoot?

Yes.

51 is 21.

2005.

February 5th, 2005.

That is bananas, man.

That really is bananas.

Man, back in the day, Tim Silvia used to train at ATT when I first got there.

He was the most uncoordinated, unathleted guy.

I couldn't believe he was the UFC champion, man.

I know.

He was like goofy.

Pigeon toad.

But down to fight.

Oh, down to fight.

Down to fight.

Yeah, for short pigeon toad, his knees were weird.

Yeah.

Yeah, they went in.

Like, I don't, I tried to talk to a trainer about that.

He was, that's learned.

Like, you can correct that.

What the knee?

Yeah.

The knee's bowed in like that was, he said that's a learn, you could, you could correct

that.

I was like, really?

How do you?

What?

I never heard of that.

Oh, yeah.

I didn't understand how he seems like something they would do.

Maybe when you're born surgery, like reposition the bones or something, no?

Well, I don't know if it is, I don't know.

I mean, I'd have to, I don't want to speak out of turn.

I'd have to bring in that guy and have him explain to me how you could correct that.

Yeah.

That's something that could be corrected.

That's like learned behavior.

It's just from being so big.

But dude, watching him with his toes pointed out, doing the ladder drills and stuff, you

know, the, the ladders on the mat, in and out, like, it was so great.

Well, big guys have their toes pointed out like that.

Like, jelly roll went from 500 pounds and he's down to the, he's in the low 200s now,

which is crazy.

Yeah.

Let's do it.

I saw pictures of him looks completely different.

He's lost like 300 pounds and he did it the right way.

Yeah.

Like, just like diet, exercise, runs all the time.

But he has a problem when he walks, his toes are pointed out and he's trying to correct

it.

He's trying to be aware of it.

Yeah.

When he runs, he runs the right way, like feet pointed forward.

You see it too on the, on the bigger guys shoes.

The corners of the shoes are always flat, like flat tires on the outside.

Yeah.

They just walk that way, man.

Well, you got to think you have so much weight.

You got to, you kind of kind of stretch out to kind of balance yourself.

Yeah.

Point to Tim Silvia when he knocked out Rico, Rico Rodriguez, that, oh, that Tim Silvia

was a beast, dude.

That was back when all the Mexican supplements were allowed.

There was a lot of dudes who are very juicy.

Oh, yeah.

And Tim, giant traps and huge fucking shoulders and, yeah, I remember he struggled to get

down to 265 for that fight.

Yeah.

Back in the day with the juice was just free flowing.

Free.

The UFC desk with bisming in Vegas when Max and Charles fought.

And we started talking about the same thing we're talking about now.

And he was like, oh, I fought Vito, I fought them all in the height of TRT.

Right.

You know, he's fought.

That was legal juice, which was bananas.

I mean, Alistair, oh, yeah, that was the juiciest fight of all time.

Yeah.

Alistair versus, versus Brock was the juiciest fight all time.

Yeah.

I recently watched the Mark Hunt documentary.

And he's trying to like push back and do a lawsuit against the UFC for all the juicing

and stuff of it.

I mean, it's such a, yeah, that's a tough, that's a tough road because how much can the

UFC do?

I mean, and it's on the athletic commission as well, right?

Wouldn't the lawsuit be against the state, not the UFC?

I think his position is that the UFC knew that, but how would they know that Brock was

juicing?

I don't know.

Random drug tests, I believe.

Yes.

It was before.

So that would, I feel like that would fall on the state athletic commission.

Maybe it wasn't before because he did get popped, you know, but it wasn't random.

They weren't, you know, no, no, no, show up in camp.

No, no, no, that the back in the day you would get tested on fight night.

Right.

You know, they wouldn't knock at your door.

Well, it was super clear that Brock was doing something.

It was super clear, like he was like in his late 30s, he's built like a fucking, like

a side of a barn.

I mean, there's a bunch of guys back then.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But it wasn't frown.

It was okay.

Everybody was doing it.

It wasn't, it wasn't, right?

Because it was illegal, but it was like, when you have fight day drug tests, that's an

intelligence test.

That's all that is.

Right.

That's whether or not you have good people in your corner, right, and whether or not

you have a chemist.

It's going to take this amount of weeks to get out of this many days to get out of your

system.

There are certain camps that would employ scientists and these scientists are always going

to be ahead.

You know, they're always going to be coming up with something new, trying to stay ahead

of the curve and get away with stuff.

And I still think they're probably doing it, man.

Yeah.

There's probably something that we don't know right now, and it's going to come out in

the future.

That's why they hold on to the drug tests for a prolonged period of time.

Yeah.

They ask you, you're consent, you have to do an extra signature if you let them test it

or use it for.

What do you do if you say no?

I don't know.

I never said no.

Give it to them.

Well, it's good for you, because you're clean.

Yeah, I competed my whole career clean, man.

Nothing.

Nothing.

I was even scared of certain creatine.

I got the trust to buy sport on everything, because I was so scared to be one of those guys.

Because every time I see it, the tainted supplement, yeah, sure, buddy.

But you know, sure, tainted supplement, but it could be, you know, I don't want to be

one of those guys.

Well, for sure there are tainted supplements.

That's a real thing.

And you know, I know that for a fact, because as one of the owners of on it, when we were

doing, we're doing third party testing of some of our supplements, we would find stuff

in there that's not supposed to be in there.

And so we'd have to contact the distributor, the manufacturer, and the people that like

mixed our stuff.

So the way like on it would work is like alpha brain has a bunch of different ingredients

that enhance your, you know, your mental focus and clarity.

And we would give them the very specific numbers of what's supposed to be in each

batch.

And then we would third party tests, we find a bunch of shit in there that's not supposed

to be in there.

And it's because, you know, if you're getting it done overseas, they have these vats where

they mix all the stuff in and they don't even clean the vats.

Right.

Right.

They dump it out and then they dump the new stuff in there without cleaning it.

There's residue in there.

And then also the level of drug testing, how high these things can sense anything, right?

Even if there's a tiny bit, they'll find it, right with John Jones, right?

It was picograms.

We got introduced to the term picograms, like a grain of salt and a swimming pool they

can find.

They say, yeah.

So the testing is legit.

And I'm glad, you know, we're fighting.

We're kneeing each other in the face.

If we were running track or something, I would, exactly.

But we're fighting.

You can get seriously injured, man.

Exactly.

I've always been against the doping.

But I'm retired now, Joe.

I'm retired now.

Now you can get through.

Yeah.

I love what you guys get.

Well, Cowboy got real jack too afterwards.

But then he talked about coming back and then he got off of everything.

That's the thing though.

Like always back in the day, all the TRT guys, like if you change your body's natural production

of testosterone with exogenous testosterone, you have to be on it for the rest of your

life.

Well, you don't have to because there's things called HCG and HCG and clomaphine can restart

your body's production of testosterone.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because I know your testicles will stop producing.

Exactly.

You introduce foreign testosterone, right?

Well, for a period of time, especially when you're a young man, you can restart it.

But you know, my production, I've been on TRT since I was like late 30s, like it's

not coming back.

Yeah.

I'm shooting blanks.

Yeah.

Papal.

But you're good.

But two, my daughters were born while I was on TRT.

So it does work.

I just had limited amount.

I had soldiers just one fucking special ops guy the front only one was marching, but he

got through black ops.

Yeah.

So if you think about like all of the time where people were allowed to dope, it is a

giant percentage of the history of MMA, like pride.

The further you go back for sure.

For sure.

For sure.

Pride.

It was juicy as juice.

Like Ensen Inuay when he was on the podcast told me that in the contract that said in

all capital letters, we do not test forced steroids.

We aren't looking.

I've heard other people say that as well.

We aren't looking.

Thumbs up.

Green light.

Shoot up the juice.

Come fight.

We'll pay you cash.

Get out of here.

They wanted you to juice.

They wanted you to fight better.

Which is like, it becomes a spectacle, but man, people can get seriously injured.

You can.

Especially.

But then also the thing is like, does it make you more durable?

I think it does.

I think it does.

I think it does, man, because just one that right off the top of my head, when Bigfoot

Silva was TRT or whatever he was on, he was so durable, so durable.

Him and Mark Han had those crazy fights, but when he got off, he started getting knocked

out.

You know?

But there's also the switch.

There's something that happens when you've had a certain amount of concussions where

that's right.

Another guy that comes to mind.

Remember Eric Silva?

Yeah.

Well, to wait.

It was huge.

Dude, whenever they started doing their useata stuff, he was getting knocked out and just

wasn't himself.

He didn't look the same.

He felt it.

I wonder what the medical reason for that is, but I think it has something to do with confidence

in self-belief with the testosterone.

They just, I think that's a big part of it.

It's definitely a part of it, but also there's a part of it.

You're just more durable.

I mean, when you're jacked up on testosterone, you're just more fucking durable.

Yeah.

Everything about you is more durable.

Alistair is a great example of that.

Like animal mode, man.

Yeah, man.

Dude, I think Alistair over him when he was ubering, I think that is the best argument

for TRT ever.

It's like a superhero.

Bro, when he was in K1 and he was shelling up, how are you getting through that?

How are you getting through that chest?

You know how small he was though, back in K1?

He was like a 205 or something.

Well, no.

Pride.

Pride when he was fighting it, light everyone, chuck knocked him out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Lidell knocked him out when he was a legit light heavyweight and he was skinny.

Yeah.

And young and skinny.

He just decided time to get big.

Hey, look at him back then when he fought show gun.

Still pretty jacked though.

Oh, yeah, man.

He was shredded.

He was shredded, but he was a shredded light heavyweight.

You know, I think he's a vegan now.

That's you.

Look at that.

Come on, son.

Come on, son.

That's a ribeye.

Is that a vegan right there?

I'm talking about, I mean, that's what a UFC heavyweight champion is supposed to look

like.

Come on, son.

I mean, put that on the white house.

Not just that, but highly skilled.

For sure.

He wasn't just jacked.

He was highly, I mean, there's like K1 Grand Prix champion.

I mean, that dude was the cream of the crop at kickboxing.

He was the cream of the crop in MMA and he even won the Abu Dhabi European trials as

a pure grappler.

Yeah.

People don't know about that about Alistair.

His grappling is high.

Very.

He had one of the best guillotine in the game.

Like Alistair in his prime, when he went over and he fought Brett Cooper over and was it

Bert Cooper?

No.

Who do you fucking fight in strike force?

Like Brett Rogers.

Brett Rogers.

That's right.

Sorry.

I'm thinking of the heavyweight boxer, Bert Cooper.

Bert Cooper.

He had some crazy wars with, with a vendor, a vendor Holyfield.

I think a vendor's down in South Florida too now.

I don't remember Cooper.

He was a really, he was a tank.

He was a tank.

He was a super jack guy.

But Brett Rogers, when he fought Alistair, Alistair, like immediately hit him with a low kick

and you can tell he was like, what is this?

Yeah.

Like it was a different kind of low kick because you're dealing with the treat trunks of Alistair

with perfect technique and that guy was as good a kick boxer as has ever entered into

MMA.

And when he was saucy, he was a problem.

Yeah.

He was a real fucking problem.

Speaking of kickboxers from that era coming to MMA, dude, didn't go cons hockey come over?

Oh, yeah.

I thought he was going to do, you know, so much better, but he was older.

He was older and he was at a time where it's like, you know, he had that so many fights

on K1, you know, he had so many wars.

And he fought Khalil when, you know, Khalil's fast, fuck.

And I mean, good kickbox.

Real good kickbox.

Thai style.

Khalil cracked him in the first round and knocked him out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Which was a big fight for Khalil because, you know, Gokham was the Turkish Tyson was coming

over here.

You know, it was one of those guys like Merkel Krokov was like an elite kick boxer who

was entering into MMA and everybody always gets excited about that.

Obviously, Pereira is the best example of that.

Yeah.

But he was a guy I knew.

I told everybody I was like, that guy's going to be a nightmare for everybody because there's

something about him, man.

I don't know what the hell is going on with his bone structure, his DNA and his intelligence.

Like he figured shit out that other people didn't like the way he threw that low kick, like

the way he throws that calf kick with zero towel, no turning of the hips.

Like he fucks up guys, calves better than anybody on the planet.

We had like a huge rush of the calf kick.

I saw it for like a year and a half, two years.

Everybody was doing it.

Now it's kind of fading away.

I've noticed that.

It is, but not with him.

It's not with the elite guys.

Guys that are really good at it.

It does so much damage, man.

So quickly.

It's crazy.

And it's so much, it's less commitment.

So you're not giving, you don't have to turn your hips over as much.

So wrestlers aren't grabbing singles as easy.

Why, I remember you're fighting with Jim Miller.

It's just, oh, dude, tore me up.

Yeah.

That was one of the first examples of calf kicks being really fucking dangerous.

And I've never felt it before.

I'm a South Pole.

So they land good calf kicks.

You'd have to fight another South Pole, right?

And that doesn't happen too often, especially with one who's throwing those.

So I didn't know what kind of black magic he was doing, bro.

I was like, I got a flat tire.

What is going on?

What is this?

I know.

Isn't it crazy that it took that long for people to figure that out?

Ben Henderson was a guy doing it early.

But it wasn't that effective for some reason.

Yeah, he was doing it, but it wasn't having the devastating damage.

I'm trying to think of who's the first guy to really,

Edson Barboso would do it every now and then.

Mm-hmm.

Trying to think of somebody who really brought it over.

But it's made its way in the kickboxing now.

It's because they were saying like the Muay Thai guys are not susceptible to calf kicks.

And everybody was saying that.

I was like, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

They are light on their front foot.

So that front foot is, you know, but there's times where they have to plant.

Like when they're throwing a right kick.

There's a guy named Yuki Yosa.

Yuki Yosa who fights for one.

He's a kielkishen guy.

And he's fucking everybody up with calf kicks.

Yeah.

He fights like high guard tight inside.

And again, no pivot of the hips.

He's essentially throwing his calf kick almost like he's kicking a soccer ball straight

up the middle.

That's the way I like to do it as well.

Just clip the top of the calf.

There's no commitment.

You don't have to pivot your hips or plant to turn.

You can just snap it out like a jab.

Yeah.

Well, a great example of the changing of technique was you in that corner fight.

Yeah, calf.

Hold on over.

And it was also South Pa versus South Pa.

Exactly.

Same thing.

You just destroyed that calf.

And you can tell he didn't know what to do.

Because as good as he was and as many fights as he had, two division world champion, he

hadn't been calf kick.

Right.

Which is a crazy transition.

When you see like the history of the sport, that is one of the clear differentiation.

That's another word that's fake.

That's the clear line in the sand where the techniques changed.

Yeah.

And it's one of those things like before it happened to me, I saw it and I was like,

ah, it might be uncomfortable, but until it happens, then you have a different respect

for it.

So Connor probably learned a lot that fight, man.

Oh, this is for real.

The calf kicks are for real.

What's fuck that it's just one shot?

That's what's crazy about it.

Because a thigh kick, like you can get a hard thigh kick and your leg goes dead for a couple

seconds, but it comes back.

Yeah.

Caves don't really come back that quick.

They explained it to me at the hospital after the gemila thing.

Apparently your calf doesn't have the chambers for the fluids of drain.

So that's why it gets compartment, oh, compartment, that's why it's so painful,

because it can't like go out through you.

This one can't go out through your whole leg.

So it sits in one pocket and it fills up and it's just uncomfortable.

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Do you ever see what happened to Austin Hubbard?

Dude, that's what they wanted to do.

So the gemelafight, they wanted to cut me at the, it's like no way, no way, filet you

to release the pressure.

Well, another guy, you ride a favor when he fought Jose Aldo, his life blew up like

a balloon.

Yeah.

Apparently, if it gets that bad compartment syndrome and the swelling is bad enough for

long enough, you can lose function of your ankle and foot.

Yeah.

Which is crazy, right?

Right.

Variah was one of the first guys to implement going into, what, why can't I think about the

fucking chamber, oxygen chamber, hyperbaric, hyperbaric, what's wrong with me today?

I'm making up fake words, can't come up with things that I know.

But he was using the hyperbaric like exclusively to recover from that and documenting it.

And I'm here.

That's interesting.

A lot of good brain benefits for hyperbaric.

Oh, yeah.

I don't have one.

But this never been like a routine thing.

Well, you have to have access to it.

And also the tense, the zip up tense at home.

Not a strong.

Yeah.

You need a solid, you need like one of those propane tank ones, those big, thick, old ones.

The glass, like it's really getting high pressure, yeah, yeah.

And then, you know, you got to be careful in those things.

You can't, no sparks.

Yeah, dude, I saw a story that a kid was in one and you saw that.

Yeah.

That's a couple of years, horrible.

Yeah.

Yeah, but hyperbaric is awesome for recovery. It's also it lengthens. There's a protocol that developed

one of the universities in Israel developed it where you do 60 sessions over 90 days and it

lengthens your telomeres that's commensurate with I think it's like a 20 year difference in

your biological age. Wow. It's nuts. It's super effective. Like when you get a lot of oxygen

into your system like that, it just helps everything recover. For sure. Like if you have an

or ring or a whoop strap and you go into one of those things, it shows you. Yeah. It's like,

oh, you have an amazing recovery day. Yeah, man, the metrics we can track now with all the

wearable devices is pretty awesome, dude. Well, it gets you to understand, like I think you can

get a little addicted to those things. For sure. I so when I was competing, I stopped using them

because every day wasn't ready. Need to rest. Read, read, read, read, every day. So when I retire,

I got back to it. Now I'm using them. But like when you're training for a fight, you can't.

Isn't that interesting? Not taking two days off. I need a train and the fights coming up. Like

if I'm in the red zone, I still need a train. I know. Isn't that interesting? Like there's

wearable device would tell you you're not supposed to train, but yet you know in order to reach

MMA peak physical condition, you have to push when you're not ready. So your body's forced to

recover quicker. I know this guy's training. That's why I got rid of it during camp. I don't use it.

We didn't use it. But it's weird because like, what if you listen to it? Like some people say,

like Terrence Crawford was talking about like, there's times where he wanted to push where his

coaches told him not to. And then he realized they were right. Yeah, maturing through fighting man,

pulling back got easier as I got older. When I was a younger fighter, I didn't want to take any

time off. I needed to be as many reps as much time on the mats as possible. But as I got to like

mid 30s, 36, I was like, you know, this is, I got to take days off. Complete days, complete days,

not just an easy day or a technique day. I just need to be out of the gym. Just relax. Yeah,

reset my mind to where I want to be there. Just hard for fighters because you operate on momentum

of the conditioning and the training and the discipline. It's like, yeah, you're in there. And

then to have a day where you're not, you feel like you're slipping backwards. Right. And you show up

to fight week with that momentum. Like I did everything I could. A busman's every day. Like you just

gives you so much energy and so much confidence going into fight week. You've turned over every

stone. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the worst thing though is seeing a fight or fight flat because you know

they're over trained. Yeah. And the one thing that I always point to is when Tim Kennedy fought

Calvin Gaslam. And he had gone through two solid camps in a row. So he went through one camp

peaked, got ready for the fight. And then the fight got canceled. And then went right back into

camp for it to train for Gaslam and didn't give himself the chance to recover. And you know,

it's too tough. Yeah. Too tough, too disciplined. And his body broke down. You're redlining that

engine over and over and over. I mean, we just saw it in Mirab. I think, you know, not that

a little taken into anything away from Yon. But you know, you stay that busy. Those kind of fights,

those training camps. I mean, it's hard to do. That's what makes things like John Jones could be

so impressive to me, man. To get on top and stay on top that long, you know. Yeah. I know it's

nuts. There's so few guys have been able to do that, especially in MMA, too many variables,

too many ways to slip on a banana peel, get caught in something, you know. And I kind of love

that could be went out on top and never came back with respect. That's awesome. And they offered

him a lot of fucking money to come back. He's like, nope. Yeah. Nope. Good for him, man. Yeah.

Good for him. Yeah. That's the way to do it. And then you go out all your faculties. Everything's

fine. Undefeated. Go down a legend. Right. Yeah. Like, I think Floyd should have did it,

you know, like that. Now he's fucking fucking fighting Mike Tyson. Come on, man. I know. There

was some rumors around that Floyd was going to have a rematch with Connor, which is crazy.

But I think Connor would probably do it, especially for any drug testing involved. I wonder if he's

going to come back it for sure. Yeah. But man, to heal from an injury like he had, you probably

need a bunch of stuff to, I don't know the ins and outs of that, but you probably need some help

to heal. He definitely needed some help to heal. The problem is once you get used to that help

and you enjoy it. Yeah. I'm getting used to the help. I know. That's what I thought about Cowboy.

When he got jacked and then he was like, he's going to, he's slimmed back down again. He

said he was going to fight again. But I think he might have abandoned that. I got hooked up with

Brigham and Ways to Well, they did all my blood. When I retired and got me, I turned down no

testosterone for me. So I'm not on any testosterone. I just don't want to mess up my natural

production because mine wasn't high, but it wasn't low. I'm just scared to mess with it, you know.

Yeah. You don't need it. And it's peptide. I'm 37 can do a lot for you. Yeah. I'm on a bunch

of peptides. Yeah. Peptides are the way to go. And I feel great. Honestly, I wish I could have

been on this shit when I was fighting, man. I know. You know, especially like the growth hormone

releasing stuff like like Tessa Moral and exactly like I could have pushed hard every day, man.

As I got older, it got harder, man. I know. And all it does is help your body recover.

It's not like it gives you some sort of a performance enhancing boost. I know it definitely helps

with like fat mobilization and stuff like that. But just being able to push hard every day is

huge and fighting. But just BPC 157, which offers no performance enhancing, but would help you

heal soft tissue injuries because you're getting injured. You're just getting small injuries

every day training. Every time you get leg kicked, every time you get punched in the stomach,

arm bar, shoulder lifting, everything, everything. Your joints are always messed up. Always, always.

And if you wanted fighters to perform better, something that would allow them to heal better is

only good. And it's not it's not going to make you run faster. It's not going to make you jump

higher. It's not going to make you an uberine. We're not talking about that. And I'm not even

sure if that's banned. I haven't checked it. It is BPC 157's band. Yeah. That's unfortunate.

Yeah. Creatine protein powders. That's the same stuff. You just recover better.

Well, I don't understand what creatine's not banned. Thank God. But creatine in the 1990s

were thought of the same way steroids. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I remember.

People thought like creatine's cheating. Oh my god. You're taking creatine. They literally

put it in the same category as start. And then they realized, oh, it's actually a part of food.

Great for your brain. It's actually good for you. Great for everything. Yeah.

I just talked my wife into starting creatine.

Women need it more than men. I was reading. Right. You know,

that's the little wife's just. Yeah. Yeah. I think the key is to like make sure you're hydrated

too. And to make sure you're not taking too much of it and make sure you get your blood checked.

And so you're not putting a lot of pressure on your kidneys. Yeah. But like dehydration and kidneys.

That like that is one of the big things that happens to a lot of fighters that cut a lot of weight.

They start getting kidney stones. I mean, Jose Aldo dealt with that DC famously got pulled out of

the Olympics. Oh yeah. Because yeah, it was having kidney failure. Yeah. Yeah. Your kidneys,

man, they don't like you being drained out like that. I've had a few way cuts where I felt pain in

my back. And I think that's kidneys 100%. Yeah. Kidney shots didn't happen often, but I've definitely

had it tightness. It feels kind of like cramping in a weird place you never had before in your back.

That's spooky. You're drying out your organs. And then fighting for your life. Crazy.

24 hours. It was nice though. When I started making it to the top of the cards,

co-main event, main event because then you have like 30 something hours to rehydrate. If you're

fighting early prelims in Vegas. Right. Two or three in the afternoon. Right. You know, it's

right not too long, especially back in the day when weigh-ins were at five or six p.m. There

wasn't a morning in ceremonial. Right. The real weigh-ins were at five and you were going to fight

it to the next day. Yeah, those were nuts. That was crazy. Yeah, I was crazy when guys would like

shuffle to the scale for the real weigh-in. You'd see them all like like a skeleton. And you're

facing off of the opponent trying to be tough like both dying. Well, I always remember Jose Aldo

versus Connor. Connor looked like he's one of the walking dead. Yeah. He looked like a zombie.

It was so skinny. His face bones. Yeah. See if you find that. And he was also crazy. Like

like like flexing. He's always crazy. He's always crazy. He hyped up with no like no body fat,

no water, just completely dehydrated. Look at that. Look at that. The eyes, eye,

sunken in. That is nuts. That guy weighed 145 and he probably weighed 170 or at least 165 when

he got into the actual octagon that day. If he does come back, I wonder what he's going to come

back at. Lightweight or welter? Well, the real key is if. I mean, he's had a lot of opportunities.

And I don't know. I thought the channel fight was a layup for him. That's the fight. A great

matchup for him. Great fight. Technically, it's a great fight stylistically. It's a great fight

age wise. Chandler's got to be what? 39 now. He's up there. 38. 39. Yeah. I mean, and then there's

the hype of the ultimate fighter. True. But it's just a layup for Connor. Chandler's hitable,

covers distance, not that technically, you know, huge movements. Right. You jump in. You get carried

out. Connor's a sniper man. I just think that's a great matchup for him. It's also a great matchup

for Chandler because he gets tired and he gets that, you know, because he sat out for two years

waiting. No Connor. He's also like, remember him with Olivera, even in the fucking third round. That

dude is carrying Olivera up and throwing him through the air and body slamming him while he's

on his back. Yeah. Like the dudes has, he has incredible endurance and incredible discipline.

He should always fit. Yeah. And that's been Connor's Achilles heels that Connor, he's so explosive

and so fast that if you're sprinting in that first round, guaranteed you're not going to have

that same kind of energy in the fifth round. Yeah. But some guys are just designed like that.

You know, you saw Taren Woodley's a guy who has huge explosion, but they don't necessarily

keep that for 25 minutes. But on the opposite side of that, you got to got like Nadeez who

keep that same pace from round one to five. Round 30. Yeah. That dude could. Or a heck of a long

board. Right. Out of a cannon, you know, and then slow down. Mm-hmm. Just the way muscles and fibers

are put, you know, connected. I don't know what that's to a human. Well, the only guys that figured

out how to fight with all that bulk and just is like Yoel Romero. He fought very smart.

It was just like calm and still fighting. Still fighting. Dude, still fighting.

Yeah. 50 years old. Jacked. More Jack than ever. Yeah. 48 years old. 49 years old with abs,

looking like a fucking super athlete. I think he's doing bare knuckle, maybe. Yeah. He did

bare knuckle. He did dirty boxing. There's a fight where he had an dirty boxing where he's

touching the dude up. And then out of nowhere, he just leaps up into the air. He does like a vertical.

He is like a five foot vertical. Lands on his feet and just starts putting on a dude like,

I'm tired of this. Let me show you what I could really do. I've had fun. No play with the food.

I've had fun. He's a crazy. He's been on the mats a bunch at American top team as well. And

just a freak athlete, man. Freak. He's the freak of all freak. Just a freak athlete. Yeah. I mean,

he came out of that Cuban. They build them different over there. Yeah, they build them with

science. Yeah. Yeah. But he also figured out how to pace himself. You know, he figured out how to

like explode out of nowhere, but not explode the entire time. Like he had this casual almost,

he would low you into a false center security and then just pounce on you. Right. Which is why he

hit with wide men with. Yeah. That was a perfect example. Perfect example. Because you get used

to this kind of pace and then you get into the rhythm and then you just break up. But also,

he didn't fight like obviously he's a wrestler. He didn't wrestle too, too hard and really

gassed himself out. He fought smart to do what he's good at. Explore. He rarely used his wrestling

in MMA, which is so crazy. Yeah. It's really crazy if you think about how good of a wrestler he was.

Right. Because he was one of the best wrestlers to ever compete in MMA. And that dude was elite

as a wrestler. And in MMA, he's just starching people. Yeah. When Luke Rockhold starched Luke,

like that was crazy. Luke's another guy still fighting. I think I think he might be done now.

You know, when he got knocked out by Darren Till in the boxing, I think that might be it. And

Darren Till has got a resurgence, man. As a boxer, he looks fucking fantastic. I saw the highlights

of that, but I haven't seen a whole lot. Bro, he looks real good. He looks, but he's always been

a good striker. Very good striker. And his Achilles heel has been his knees. You know, he's had

some serious knee problems and it really impeded him from being able to train hard. He wasn't the best

grappler in the world. And so that was always his problem. But as a striker, I mean, I was like

very, very good. And you're seeing him now in boxing, like he's making a real run. I think it's

very interesting because if you watch him box Rockhold and you realize like Rockholds are really

good striker, but against Darren Till, he would have had no business in there. That's something I

would like to do, man, box still. I always wanted to have a couple before I, you know, but I'm still

under contract, even though I'm retired, I still have a contract with the UFC. Do you think the

UFC will let you out or they have Zufa boxing? Yeah. So they trust me. I already pitched it to him.

Did you? Me and Nate Diaz Zufa boxing. Let's go. Let's go. 170, whatever.

168. Super middleweight. Let's do it. They don't want any crossover. Why? They I think Zufa wants

to be taken to serious hate money. They must hate money. They hate money. Why do they hate money?

I don't know. They want to be taken by the boxing world series. And I think if you open that door

of a MMA guy fighting under Zufa boxing, every guy on the roster, every girl on the roster is going

to want to do the same. It just becomes a mess. I think I don't know about that. Yeah. I don't

think it's a mess. I think there are some really fun MMA boxing matches you can make. Yes.

Fuck yes. Especially when guys get older and you know, you don't want to go through the

training camp with wrestling and leg kicks and all that shit. That's the thing. Like thinking

about a boxing training camp, dude, no grappling, no wrestling. Just run condition and box.

It would be smooth. Yeah. Funny. I'm on the beach. It's tough as boxing is like for you. Like,

oh, it's going to be so nice. I only have the box. That's great. Yeah. Honestly, men and training

camp. Those are my favorite days. Striking sparring is my favorite days. Like the wrestling class

is two hour Mako on Monday. It's like brutal, bro. Well, it'd be great for you because you've

always had great hands. Like for you, that's a perfect. Well, I started boxing before it makes

martial arts. That would be a perfect way for you to get some other fights in. I don't understand

Zufa. Yeah. I would just love to lace them up and box professionally once. I know what they

want to like redo boxing. And I know they want to like, and I think there's probably some real merit

there. Obviously, what the Saudis have done with Riyadh season has been amazing, you know,

making matchups that no one can make. I'm a big counterbend fan too, man. I'm excited to see him fight

in Zufa. And the guy's fighting is from New Orleans. Like, I know the guy. Like, you know, it's fun.

It is exciting. And it will definitely, I think they will elevate boxing. And Dana is throwing all

of his cards into that. So I'm sure it's going to work. Yeah. I'm glad we're seeing more boxing,

Zufa boxing and less power slap on my feet whenever I go to online stuff, you know. Yeah, I'm not a

big fan. I've never been the one, but man, it's just not my, not my jam. Yeah. When we, when I fought

my retirement in New Orleans, Mike Brown went to the power slap they had there. And he said it was

awesome in person. Oh, sure. It's awesome to watch someone get slapped, but like, I'm not interested.

I'll watch it on my fucking phone every now and then. I'll see. I mean, highlights are good

enough. You see the knockouts and the crazy stuff, but it's great TikTok content. For sure.

You know, it was someone gets slapped and they go forward and their head hits the desk and they

fall backwards, but it's like, it's a concussion. You watching and you can't, there's no defense.

There's no, like, you can't clinch or you get, it's penalty if you do that. That's crazy.

That's all making sense to me. I don't, I don't get it. But I think they've missed out on the

opportunity to have a Muay Thai league. That's what I think. I just America just doesn't buy into it

that big. I don't think that's true. No. No. No. I just think that one is doing it on Amazon.

Yeah. You know, but it's like we're watching Amazon. That's the problem. Yeah. You have a show on

Amazon. Like I know guys who've released comedy specials on Amazon. Like good luck finding it.

Nobody cares. That's just the reality of this platform. I mean, look, Amazon is a phenomenal

platform for buying stuff. I love it for buying things. I use it all the time. Every week.

It's great for buying books, audio books, great for buying products. But for watching content,

it's kind of a mess. They had a couple big shows like the Marvelous Mrs. Maisel and the Terminal

List. Those are great shows and those brought a lot of people over there. But I mean, you know how

big the Terminal List would have been if it was on Netflix as big as it was on Amazon.

More people watch Netflix for sure than we're ever going to watch anything on. That's why what

Jake's doing with the Netflix and bringing boxing in the mate there. Like it's big man. It's big.

So many people are going to be watching this. 100%. But I think that if one was somewhere else,

I think it would have been there you go. On the way here today. What? Yeah, they got

an ounce this morning. An MMA fight. That's what that's the third fight on that card now. That's

the Rousey card. Wow. Interesting. That's very interesting. That's very interesting. That's a good

fight. Dude, you said a lot of people don't go to Amazon to watch TV. I just went down a rabbit hole

for weeks because I have a newborn at home. So I did the night shift and I ran out of shit to watch

on Netflix. And when you run out of shit to watch on Netflix, you stay up till 4 a.m. every night

with a baby boy is like hours of documentaries, hours of stuff. I switched over to Amazon.

And it was like a whole new world, man. Well, there's a lot on there. It's just they don't

have the same viewers. Like our podcast is on Amazon. The numbers that we get from Amazon

compared to everywhere else are so small. Yeah. It's just the reality of the way they've

sort of marketed it. And Amazon Prime Video just doesn't have the audience that everything else does.

Right. And it's such a big platform. You think it would be crossover from

I think it's a mistake on their part because the product side is so big. And like Amazon

for buying stuff is so big that it's almost like an afterthought. And they have some money in it.

But not the same sort of focus. Also, the interface when I've gone to it is a little weird.

It's hard to find things. It's not as simple like the interface on Netflix is like the algorithms

great. It's really good at recommending new things. It knows what you like. It shows you things.

It's easy to find things. For sure. Amazon's like a little tricky. You go there and you're like what?

But see, the one FC thing faces the same problem that the PFL has. Like look, PFL is on ESPN Plus.

So you'd imagine PFL would get the same sort of audience that the UFC got. But it doesn't.

No, of course not. Because the UFC brand is like NFL like the machine. It's just. Yeah,

they own that space. But the fights on one FC are fucking amazing. Like especially the moi tie

fights with the small gloves. Oh my God, man. And I was trying to pitch this to Dana.

So I started sending Dana. He goes send me some. So I started sending him all these like high

level moi tie fights and high level kickboxing fights. And they're fucking phenomenal. Look,

he didn't like the Charles Olivera. This. Excuse me. This Max Holloway Charles Olivera fight.

He didn't like it. Like the BMF fight. The fight wasn't that good. I was like, I thought it was a great

fight. It was impressive. If you were a fan of technique and a fan of how hard it is to do that

to somebody like Max, like super impressive. And I was a fan of Max's defense. I mean, Olivera

was on his back in the first round. A lot of people would finish the first minute and a half.

Yes. You know, dry. I right. I got finished there. Yeah. I mean, I think Olivera is one of the

greatest submission artists have ever competed in the sport. Yeah. Not the best numbers. I mean,

numbers prove it. Yeah. And against elite guys like you and like Justin and like he's fun.

And then Gamerot. Dude Gamerot is I trained with him for years. He's a wrestler, but his grappling

is incredible. He got tied up in knots with Olivera. Yeah. Olivera is a nightmare. I knew it could

happen, but I didn't think it would be that I was stunned too. I was like, God, he's good. He's

so good on the ground. So like props to Max for surviving. But if dated didn't like it. So I

started sending him. For the, I mean, when you have the title of the BMF, like you want to see

some violence. I understand, but it's still just a fight. You can't fight outside of your

conscience. Just because of BMF belts on the line, you can't go out swinging for the fences. But

I get it. I get what you're saying. Yeah. But I mean, on the feet, I think Olivera was winning

on the feet. Do he hurt Max in the first? I think he heard him in the fifth. Well, he definitely

heard him in the fifth when they did the point down the ground. Yeah. And then he cracked him and

rocked him. Olivera is fucking cool. He is, man. He is. He's so good. He's just known. We put

the label on the grapple because he's finished so many guys and so many bonuses, but he can strike,

man. He's good everywhere. Like with a Chandler fight, he almost gets finished in the first round,

comes back and hits about a clean left hook in the second. Yeah. He's fucking good, man. Yeah,

knocked him out. Even when I fought him, like he did a good job of picking where the fight happened.

He wouldn't fight me in boxing range. It was either all the way in clinch or out where he was

teaping my body, he's staying long. Kicking range or clinching range is kind of where he fought me.

The times I did have success was in the boxing range, but he didn't let that happen.

Well, just just shows you how fucking good Ilya de Poria is.

Fuck. God damn it. Dude, I love Justin. I love I'm a fan. I don't like this matchup for him.

Well, you know what? I mean, Justin knows what he's getting into and it's hard to count that dude

out. He's such an animal. Yeah, he can land the shot. And it's in the White House. Who knows?

Who knows what's going to happen, but that dude has the touch of death. Yeah, he has the

touch of death. And he's not a big guy. I've never seen him in person, but I was talking to

somebody recently and they said, nice. Five, seven, you know, he's small, man. He's not big.

There's a photo of me standing next to him when we did the podcast for standing next to him.

He's much smaller than me. And bro, he puts people into the shadow realm. Yeah. It's just

technique and confidence. His confidence is crazy. He had a he had a victory party for the

olive air fight the night before drinking wine. I saw. I don't think he was drinking wine.

No, I think he was drinking water the night before, but he has drank wine in weigh-ins when he's

getting ready to weigh in or whether he's the weight cut. He only did that for two camps. He told

me though. He said this too much. Just like fucking hung over the next day. Like, what am I doing?

Right. Then you're about to get your brain beat up. You're dehydrating. You're drinking. Come on.

Well, I think he's dehydrating himself and he said the wine actually helps you get dehydrated.

Yeah. Alcohol definitely does. Yeah, which is, but it's nobody does that. Nobody drinks wine for

the weigh-ins. That's crazy. No, bro. And like, I'm so I'm not drinking anything. I'm so

depleted by that time. I know. And he's getting hammered. Lucky. And winning world championships.

Well, it was only two fights he did that for. So it became like something where people are pretending

he does it every way in. He's got all these young fighters out there in the world drinking on

the other day. I'm going to be like the champ, man. Yeah. But he's crazy talented. For sure.

For sure. For sure. Whatever it is, he has it. He's got it in his mind. He's got it in his

technique. His grappling. I watched a video of him grappling with Marab and he was all over Marab.

And that's crazy. That's what they say. His grappling is just as good if not better than his standup.

That's where he started. I've never seen him grapple though. Well, he finished

Bryce Mitchell on the ground. And he's finished a few people on the ground. He's like he does

clearly have phenomenal submission ability. What do you show him here? What is this him? He says

is he's done it for a long time. Yeah, you can see his face is already sucked in a little bit. He

said that when he was on the podcast, though, that he only did it twice. Three years ago. That's

hilarious. He's all tipsy and drunk. Look, I tell this to young fight. There's no right. I mean,

obviously don't smoke crack before a fight. There's no right or wrong way. Everybody's different.

Right. Whatever makes you feel comfortable to perform and compete like everybody's different.

If there was a cookie cutter, perfect way to work, everybody would do it. Well, your car was

brought to us. Yeah, exactly. Smoking cigarettes like the day of the fight. He said,

they're smoking marbles. Darts. Darts. Who was the monster? Fucking everybody up. Back in the day.

Oh, yeah. My orga. My orga. My orga. Yes. Yes. He was sick cigarettes. Drinking and fucking

Carlos drinking whiskey. I know. He's like going out there in a party and always going to

fuck people up. Respect. Yeah. I mean, he's going to fight. Is he fighting Jack Delamadolena?

Is that the fight? I'm not believe that's the fight in Perth. That is a very good fight. Yeah.

A tough one for Jack to come back to, man. I was in, I was in a MSG when, when Islam took the

belt from a dude, complete domination. Well, that's another guy. Complete domination.

And Ilya was talking about fighting him too. You know, the size difference would be so big.

So big. Islam is huge. He's huge. He's too big for 55. And then you see him at 170. How did

you ever make 55? Right. He's because he's so dominant at 170. Yeah. Hunter from the UFC,

I was in his office not too long ago. And I, they keep record of all the weights fight night.

They don't release them all, but they keep it. And we were talking about the Islam fight

when I fought Islam. And he was telling me his weight. I was like, that's it anyway.

192 or something, I think the day of the fight. I think so. Yeah. That's something more.

191, 191 something around there. That's great. I was 176. That's great. But it looks like it in the

cage. Like whenever I look across and under those spotlights and they had veins and his shoulders

and shit. I'm like, fuck, this guy's huge. The ones where I'm like, how? Gregory Rodriguez is the one

where I'm like, how? Yeah. How? How? How are you 185? How? You're 63. You're built like a Greek

God. How? How do you ever weigh 185? How is that even possible? Whenever I interview him, I'm like,

how? Right. Because I'm standing next to you. And I'm like, that doesn't make any sense.

Like, you're not 185 pound guy. You're huge. Like in his prime when Luke Rocco was a champion,

he's huge, huge, huge, huge. Yo, over a mile. Yeah. Yo, over a mile is the best example.

Like, how? How are you 185? Built like an anvil, dude. Solid all the way through.

When he came in to do the podcast and Joey Diaz translated for him, he was like 230. Yeah.

Just like his neck starts at the top of his head. Just a tank and shredded always. No, no jiggle.

Dude, shredded always. Vains in his abs like crazy. Yeah. He was, he was talking about the Cuban

program. I'll never forget. It was like talking about like how they have the, the lower level

guys only eat twice a day. But the, the top level guys eat three times a day. And so everybody

is competing literally for food. Crazy. You say that in Angola, prison in Louisiana,

there's a boxing league. If you're on the boxing league and get accepted into it, you get more

meals and stuff. So the same thing, these, these prisoners are trying to invest to stay on this

boxing league. You get more meals, more time, more free time. Wow. They actually fight other

prisons, man. Wow. I was thinking this would be a great documentary to come out with.

That would be a great document. And it's CCTV to the other prisons. So other prisons can watch

in their cells. Wow. They bust them to Angola, other prisons in Louisiana. They box.

They put out a schedule every year. If you ever want to go to one, it's invite only, but I,

I'd rather watch at home. It's, bro, it feels illegal, dude. It feels illegal.

Well, it might not be legal in other states. Yeah, it might not be legal in Louisiana.

I might be getting in trouble saying this. Does anybody any good? Hell yeah.

Yeah. I think Bernard Hottens came out of jail. I mean, the guy obviously Tyson Beatham,

but the black rhino was an Angola boxing prisoner who got out or pardoned to fight Mike Tyson.

Really? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's crazy. I did not know that. So did they have a program

where they have coaches and they have to. Do they have equipment and everything? Yeah. Wow.

And different according to the schedule, they'll bust them to the other prisons to fight.

And it's played through all the prisons in Louisiana. Man, you find a highly skilled guy who's in

that program. And they let them go, bro. The ruffs, they're legitimate ruffs, but they let the

fights go, man. What kind of nutrition are they getting? They're getting prison food? Yeah.

They get any better food. No, prison food, but they get more meals. They get to eat extra.

Still terrible food, right? Yeah. Yeah. Angola is a crazy, crazy prison man.

Grow all the food there, make all the clothes there. They grow their food there? Yeah.

Self-sustaining. Self-sustaining. I'm sure they ship a bunch of stuff in, but they do have crops.

And it's such a big operation that the guards and the staff live on the prison grounds. There's

a elementary school. Really? Yeah. The guards kids and stuff go to school on the grounds. It's

wild, man. Oh, that can't be good. It's wild. Every October, they have a, the rodeo there.

Oracle about that boxing association from 2011. So I was an interview with some people I think

that were a part of it. Well, you want to focus, you know, women weakened legs,

ain't no women in their dogs. Hell, no. That's crazy. Yeah, serious business, man.

I did not know that. That's nuts, man. Yeah, how come no one sent a document around this or

how? I know. Well, B-hop was a prison boxer in Philly, right? Yeah. Yeah, this would be a great

documentary, man. Interesting. Yeah, Bernard learned, I mean, learned like real discipline in prison

and also learned that he never wants to go back, which is as important.

And I think Angol is like maximum security. So you don't go there if you have less than like

25 years or so. So these guys are in there for a long time, just trying to find things to do.

Boxing, eating extra, getting more free time. Why wouldn't you do it? Also, it keeps you focused.

You have something to concentrate on other than the fact that you're in jail. Yeah. Yeah.

It was wild, bro. They set up a ring like in a cafeteria. I went there once to watch it. It was

insane. It felt like I was doing something wrong. It felt like I was doing something wrong.

Were the guys good? Fuck yeah. Some of them were good, man. Wow. Really good.

Wow. Fuck. That's interesting. They pardon that guy. Who's the title? They have belts.

The Black Rhino Clifford maybe? ATN. Yes. Yes. That's right. That's right. So he was in prison

boxing in Angola and he fought Tyson. Wow. No shit. Yeah. I mean, why not, man? At least it

gives him something to focus on. The idea is like, oh, you're going to make a more dangerous

felon. Bro, they're dangerous. Yeah. They're dangerous. They're in there for murder. What do you think?

What do you think? They're in there for armed robbery murder. Let them fight.

Right. Doing life. Right. Exactly. Also, we try to pretend that that's not going to

improve the quality of their life and improve them as a human being. Doing something difficult,

even if it's difficult and violent like fighting will make you a better human being.

For sure. Make you tougher, smarter, more disciplined, more focused. Also,

release all the aggression there so you don't have aggression in regular altercations nearly as

much. Yeah. That's where I'm at right now, like, leaving fighting in the rearviews. Like,

what do I do with my life now? Days, days, and all. Dude, I've been traveling so much

twice a week. Maybe, you know, if I'm home on Friday, I do open magic. It's a couple kickboxing

classes. If I can make it, but I've just been traveling so much, man. Why have you been traveling

so much? Sponsors, appearances, cornering buddies, like just saying yes to everything that I couldn't

before, you know? Right. I'm more busy now, I think, because before I would shut everything down,

like, I got to get ready for this fight. I have to focus on this. No, I can't do anything. Black

out these dates. Now it's like, you're really good on the desk, man. I enjoy, man. I really do enjoy.

You can tell. Yeah. So, I mean, I think that's one of the best things that the UFC does with

former fighters is they give him this opportunity to do stuff on the desk. I think that's huge.

I hope they keep bringing me. I just signed a contract for the year. When it was ESPN, I was kind of

doing like independence contractor stuff. They would ask me, I would say yes, but I'm on contract

with UFC for a year. So, hopefully they keep bringing me, man. I, all the people behind the scenes,

just being around the event that I've, you know, I've fought at for so long. It just makes me feel good.

Yeah. And I get nervous because it's live TV. You can't fuck up. You know, live TV is different.

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Well, I would like to see the allow more of you guys to take the spots doing fights in commentary.

Oh, like color. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, right now it's just dominant cruise,

Paul Felder, Michael Bisping and DC. That's essentially it. Yeah. I mean, those are

only former fighters from the UFC that are doing it. And I really think there's room for more

guys. Yeah. Dan Hardy was great. Yeah, for sure. He was awesome at it. Yeah, he was. I don't

know what the fuck happened with him and the UFC. They had some sort of a squabble and he left,

but he's fantastic over at PFL. He's still with them. Yeah. Yeah, he does that. He's really good,

man. He's. He breaks stuff down. He's very good. Yeah. Very good. And he said, great guy. I've

known him forever. He was a 10th planet. You just you guys. So I've known him since like,

fuck, I must have met him 20 years ago. Wow. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah. Before he was

fighting GSP before he's fighting any of those guys, I knew him. Yeah. He would come over from

England to train in America. He was such a knockout artist. We never really get to see him. Right.

Yeah. No, he was good at Jiu Jitsu too, man. I mean, he trained hard. And he's just a very smart

dude who knows a lot about the sport. Yeah. It seems like when he's breaking down stuff,

you can tell he's studied. He's also just like a very skillful commentator because he's very

intelligent and is the way he describes things. It's exciting. I mean, I think he's they, I don't know

what happened with them. And when I'm on the desk with those guys, I try my best to not

break things down too much like on the stats side. I try to make it seem like

a conversation sit on the couch watching fights with your boys where I talk about

experiences that I've had and stuff because they explained it to me like, that's what fans want to see.

If they want to look up stats, they'll go look it up. They don't want to hear you talk about

submission attempts and exact stats. They want to know your experience. Yeah. So like,

each rep, I'm think I'm getting better, you know, open it up and be in more myself. I'm trying to

do a good job. And I really, really enjoy it. I think stats are interesting sometimes,

but what's really more important than that is like a technical breakdown of abilities. Right.

Because stats, it's, you know, it's variable depending on who you're fighting. Like,

like you take Charles Olivera stats and then you say his fight with Islam Makachev and you say,

okay, where's the stats? Like, it's like, it's, it's really dependent upon skill sets,

who's your level of competition, who you're competing with. You know what I mean? That was a quick

submission. No. The stats are one submission to tilt, one submission. Bro, he's got a crushing

squeak. It's different. It's different. Yeah. Yeah, you strangle me. And the way he did it, I think

he more kind of filled in last minute to fight Islam and got caught with the same choke.

It's kind of like a, a dars choke, but he locks it on his forearm. He doesn't go to the bicep.

I know. And the squeeze is different. He's pulling to his chest. It's not like a angle squeeze.

It's different. So the defense is different. When I got my legs out and tried to walk around,

he hooked my leg, but like the squeeze is completely different, completely different.

You know, you belly down and kind of get some space to breathe. You can't the way he does it.

Craig Jones broke it down. It's like a front choke, almost like a,

like a squeeze to your chest. It's not an angle that you use for a normal dars choke.

I know. I was shocked the first time I saw him do it. I was like, maybe he just like couldn't

cinch up the bicep. Then I saw him do it a second time. I was like, no, this guy's trying to do it

that way. He grabs right here. Craig Jones pulled to his chest. Break down of it on YouTube.

We're explains why it's effective and what's so good about it. And when he gets the grip

locked in, like it's complete immediate blood shut down. You know, usually you fill it slowly,

fading away. It was like right away. Well, also that dude's got a back. Like that's the whole

starting through move beyond the darkness started coming in. Like as soon as he got the grip.

Really? Yeah. He's so fucking strong. There's like something about those daggustang guys,

man. Like the discipline those motherfuckers have. Yeah. You know, there's daggustang guys that are

making their way into Muay Thai now, too. This is dude, Asadula, Iman Ghazaliyah. I talk about him

all the time, but I can't talk about him enough. He's one of those one FC guys that is fighting

in Muay Thai from daggustang. And this fucking kid is 22 years old and he's knocking out like

multiple time world tie champions. I've never seen him grow. This dude is a freak.

I mean, he's a he's just putting people into the shadow realm every fight. Dude, it's so wild

to fight four ounce gloves in Muay Thai. I know. But I mean, you could throw elbows and stuff in

knees. So it's perfect. It's like four ounce gloves. I mean, look, you're throwing elbows,

knees, everything else in the clinch. It allows you to grapple better. It just makes it so much more

dangerous for the blocking. You know, you don't have the gloves covering all the space around your

ears. But this cat is special, man. He's special. And he's from daggustang. It's like, okay,

imagine this motherfucker gets into MMA. Everybody's fucked. If this guy can wrestle at all,

which you know he can if he's from fucking daggustang, well, they do a lot of kickboxing for

Sambo, right? Yeah. This dude's something though. He's something new. Oh my god. Because he's

22 years old. And he's like world Muay Thai champions. He's sleeping them all. Yeah. It's not,

man. What weight is that? 145. I think he's 145 or 35. 145. Probably tall, tall. 132. 132.

Is that what it says? This thing right here says on screen. Wait a minute. 132.7. Oh,

interesting. 510. Interesting. 60 kilogram. Yeah. 22 years old, man. Well, at that weight,

well, and then you think about one has some crazy thing. Look at this wind knockout, wind knockout,

wind knockout. He's a freak, man. And that one dude that made it to the unanimous decision is

just his kid from Morocco, who's just tough as shit. But god damn, he took a beating. They have

such a great product, man. I wonder how many like viewers and how the ratings are. I mean,

it's big in Asia, but they have financial struggles. I don't want to speak to it because I don't

know enough, but there's a lot of talks. I know they wanted to start doing shows in America.

They've done a few. Yeah. I know they did one in Colorado. They maybe have done multiple. I'm

not aware. But it's a great product. That's the thing. It's like I love watching their kickbox

and fights on YouTube. And that kid Yuki Yoza that I was telling you about that throws calf kicks.

He's fucking everybody up with calf kicks. And there's another guy from a lot of these

Kyokushin guys, especially in kickboxing. So like they have different rule sets over there and one.

You can fight kickboxing where they use big gloves. Or you can fight Moitai where they use

little gloves. And I think they've had Moitai fights where they have big gloves too. So in the

kickboxing, you're not allowed to clinch. Not allowed to throw elbows. But you can throw knees,

but you can't clinch and just continue to throw knees. And you can't sweep and you can't take

guys down. It's a little confusing. I think Moitai is the way to go. But the thing about

kickboxing in Japan is like they just wanted to let's what K1 was. They're like let's just

take out all the clinching and make this as exciting as possible. What's the best way to do that?

And the elbows elbows are very effective, obviously, and knock a lot of guys out, but also cut a lot

of people open and stop fights prematurely, which is why pride didn't allow elbows, which is

really crazy when you think about that. Yeah, what soccer kicks and stomps, but you were fighting

multiple times. True. Cuts, you know, if you get cut in the first fight, it could change everything.

I think that makes sense. I kind of, but I mean, soccer kicks, stomps and soccer kicks.

Yeah, it's hard to say because for great knees to a grounded guy. Yeah, just ground and

prown elbows are so effective. It's so important. I mean, it really like guys that think they're

comfortable and safe in the guard. You're not. You're not. When a guy can still bust you up with

elbows from a short distance, it's a very effective technique. Yeah, very damaging. Yeah,

very, very damaging technique. Well, there's a real problem with the cage and the problem is the

wall. Like the fence is an artificial structure that keeps you from being able to move.

And I've always said this that I think it should be an open mat. It should be a large mat.

And you should, you should not like a wrestling mat. Yeah, like a big wrestling man.

Like think about a basketball game. Like think about how much space is on a basketball court.

And you still get 16,000 people in there to watch a basketball game. Guys would be,

I would think running running around a lot of, no, maybe you get penalty penalty from moving too

much. Maybe you have a ride. Yeah, you have a red, yellow card or, well, you have a you have a

center that you're supposed to stay in. And then you have a red zone outside of it. And then you

have a black zone outside the red zone where you get points taken away. Yeah,

the enter into the red zone too many times. You get a warning for the first time,

another warning for the second time, third time, you get a point taken away. So you could use it

once or twice to evade. But then you got to go back into the area where you're supposed to fight.

I think that would be, that would be cool. How big of an area you're talking basketball court.

That's too big, man. That's too big. How about football? How about football, fucking field.

That's too big. That's too big. They're doing that with no rules fights. Yeah,

yeah, I watch a lot of no rules fights. They're the Russian, the Russian stuff. They're so scary

because guys just mount guys and gouge their eyes out. Yeah, they're mounting people and just

shoving their fingers and guys are screaming and tapping and, oh, I run across some pretty crazy

stuff on IG sometimes from those, but they're fighting in parking lots. They're fighting on phone

booths, cars upside down on the wall. They're fighting everywhere. I saw them on a cargo container

floating on the on top of water where you get knocked off and that's crazy. It's so ridiculous.

American Gladiade and you fall into the water and you just breathe water and then don't rescue

you in time. Just fight with those kid floaties. If you get knocked out, you just float to the top.

Instead of those boy-tie things. Yeah, you can't float in the water. Your corner's blown

them up. Yeah, but I think the cage, I'd like like, you know how like the UFC BJJ,

yes, that sloped surface, a perfect comedy combat. Karate combat, does that slope surface?

That's a good one. And that's a big space they fight in. Karate combat. Yeah, something like that,

I think would be good. It would be better. There's something about, but the problem is then you're

backing up and you hit that ramp and you fall down. What was the old karate? It was like, I don't

think it was Chuck Norris. Yeah, Chuck Norris is like something like that. Yeah, I think it was

World Combat League or something. I went to see that one. WCF or something like that. World

Combat Federation. Yeah. I think the first guy to do a slanted thing though was Frank Shamrock.

A lot of people don't realize that Frank Shamrock had an organization for a while and they fought

in like this sloped sort of thing like in Kumite. I think he might have been the first guy.

Frank was way ahead of his time. Way ahead of his time. And he's another guy that got erased

from, because he had a falling out with the UFC and he got kind of erased from the lineage

of like elite fighters from the past. Fighting older and strike force like still

bodied up. I know. He was a student of martial arts. Yes. Yes. But by the time he got the strike

force, his kind of best days were behind him like when Nick Diaz beat him up. Yeah. It was,

it wasn't the same guy. When he fought Phil Baroni, it wasn't the same guy. He had a lot of

knee problems and it's like he's just not. After a while. It's like he might have been like

forties and strike force. I don't know how old he was. Late thirties, forties. Late thirties for sure.

But when you go back to his fights in the UFC, I mean, he was a pioneer man. When he fought

Tito Ortiz, he was nowhere near Tito's size. And he just beat Tito with cardio, just cardio and

defense. And then eventually war is asked down to beat him up and change Tito's entire strategy

for fighting after that. He was one of the guys early with like super fit, super, you know,

really focused on his, his health and nutrition and supplementation and everything. Back then,

you didn't see a whole lot of that. But he was one of the guys for sure. Well, the lion's den,

you know, Ken Shamrock's his, the thing that they put guys through this gauntlet that they put

guys through in order to make the team to make the fight team was hell. It was just hell. They

wanted guys to break. And so extreme conditioning, extreme mental toughness like all that was

emphasized. Yeah. And so Frank was the best example of that, though, because he was, he was

elite everywhere. He was really taking guys down. He had great submissions. He had great striking.

And, you know, he fought some wild fights, man. He fought, uh, Ensign. I don't remember where

that was. Was that in K one? But he beat Ensign with knees. He fought in multiple organizations.

Obviously started out in pancreas. Yeah. But he had only been training for like a year or

something like that when he fought Boss Routin in pancreas. He was super fucking talented, man.

Why they let him wear boots, right? Or kind of like, yeah, you had some weird shin pad deal with,

well, you had wrestling shoes with shin pads and you open hand slaps, you know, yeah, it was always

poem. Uh-huh. Yeah. So what is this in? Does it say what it's in 2011? This says UFC. It's not

UFC. Oh, it's Valley, Tuto, Japan. Yeah, this is before 2011. Yeah. Okay. So this is Valley,

Tuto, Japan. So Valley, Tuto, Japan, I wonder if it's the same Valley, Tuto that Hixin fought in.

So Hixin was, you know, the champion of Valley, Tuto, Japan early on. Well, that was like the

in the documentary choke. You've seen that, right? Uh-huh. That's a long time ago. Yeah.

Documentary rules. Yeah, man. That documentary rules. So that was how Hixin became a legend.

Back in the real NHB, no. Yeah. Yeah. No rules. Right. Right. Well, the first UFC that I went to

was UFC 12 in Dothin, Alabama. And you could wear wrestling shoes. You could punch guys in the

nuts. Yeah. Hair pulling. Yeah. Grabbed their clothes. No way class. There was two way classes

back then. Um, like because V-Tour won the heavyweight tournament back then. I think they had a two

way classes back then. So they still recognize that there's some smaller guys and some big guys.

The smaller guys are real talented, but then I'm going to beat the big giant guys. So let's have

a weight class for them. Yeah. I remember written VHS tapes with my dad or the old UFC's,

dude. What got you in the spoiler? How old were you when you first started martial arts training

period? 17. 17. That's late. Yeah. If you think about it, right? Well, I mean, if you want to call

wrestling, I wrestled for two years when I was 10 and 11 for a private club. We did like traveling.

Texas a lot. Louisiana. Small club meets. But other than that, no combat sports, no martial art

experience. How'd you get into it? Boxing when I was 17. I wanted to box. Always wanted to box.

Started going to a boxing gym. Met some MMA guys there. Didn't know they had MMA where I was

from. Then went to the MMA gym and never went back to the boxing gym. So what year were we talking?

2006, maybe. Oh, okay. So this was right when the UFC first started. This is like, I remember when

Stefan and and Forrest did the big thing. This was like beginning around the time I was training

boxing and mixed martial arts. So that wave, like I just never stopped. Wow. Yeah. What was it?

The world combat.

Like Chris Hordecki was over there. Been around those over there. What was the team organization?

That was big at the time. Right. IFL. IFL. Yes. Everybody had teams and stuff. That was weird.

That was real big around that time. Yeah, I didn't know being. That's where Dan Miller, Jim's brother,

landed the grossest guillotine I've ever seen in my life. Have you ever seen this one? I don't think so.

Oh my God. It's the worst guillotine of all time. He gets this guy on a guillotine, traps his head in

his chest and bends his chest. So his head is connected to his own chest sideways. So like this,

his head went all the way down and touched his chest. I don't even know how he stayed alive. Yeah,

watch this. Watch this. Watch this guillotine. There it is. Check this out. No, watch this guillotine. Look

at that. Look at that. Bro, Jesus. Bro, how's that guy alive? He's not. Look at that. Look at that.

How is he alive? Have you ever seen that before? Ever? Like, that's crazy. Yeah, this is the

craziest guillotine I've ever seen in my life. That's so crazy. Look like his neck's broken, bro.

How's he alive? Yeah. Like, first of all, why did it take so long for the referee to stop? Who's

the referee? Steve Monsigatti. I don't know who it is, but you get to probably stop that a couple

of seconds earlier. But I mean, it's just hard to imagine that a neck can go in that direction.

Like, it's so, that doesn't show it. The other angle that you showed is really what showed it.

Yeah. The other angle where you see it from the side, where you see his head. Like, when he

cinches it up here, that is crazy. That you're not supposed to bend like that. You know,

your ears never supposed to touch your chest. No, I don't know how it does. I don't know. I mean,

it just seems like everything would break. It seems like you would never walk again. He's not,

that's not fighting anymore. No. Jim still rolling, man. Jim still fights. Still rolling. It's

crazy. Most fights in UFC history and still fine. No surgeries. No nothing. Yeah. Still durable.

Dick had beat up. Was his last fight Bobby Green? That was the last time I think I saw him fight.

I don't know if that was his last fight, but he definitely got beat up. That was a one. He's

definitely lost his step. I mean, he's four years old. Yeah, yeah. But man, dude still loves it.

Still loves it. Respect to him, dude. Yeah. I mean, he sent me a cookbook. He came out of

the cook, but he's a big cook and a hunter and stuff. You know, he sent me a cookbook and a spatula.

That's hilarious. Captain Redbeard or Jimmy Redbeard on the spatula. It's like engraved into it.

The fuck yeah. He's quite a character. Yeah, I like him. I like him, man. I like him a lot too.

He's a very fun dude. And also complete wits about him. Doesn't have any problems mentally.

You know, it seems like a hard worker. He's always on his farm doing stuff. Like you would never

think he was a fighter if you didn't know. I know, right? Yeah. Yeah. He's a fascinating character.

Well, the thing about this sport is that exceptional humans are exceptional at fighting.

Like to be an exceptional fighter, you have to be an exceptional person. There's really no way around it.

There's like, it's too hard to do. You have to be a very unique kind of human being

that can get through those camps that can perform under the big lights that can figure out how to

keep getting better and evolve for sure. And that type of stuff is like the last time I was on a show

while I was talking about, it's like a gift and a curse, man. It's like you have to be all in

at something. Those kind of people who are built like that, whether it's fighting or

drinking or whether it's good or bad, you're going all in. It's dangerous. The problem is like

we see with Connor when they don't have the fighting. Then they go all in with the other things.

Yeah, right. Fighting was always for me always pulled everything together. You know,

that's why like retiring is scary, man. This episode is brought to you by Life Lock.

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Go to armra.com slash rogan. Days are long. I have a lot of time. I don't have to get ready for a

fight. You're still a young man too. You still have a whole lot of life ahead of you. 37, man.

Yeah, so it makes you think like, what do I do now? What do I do with my future? What do I do?

What do you want to do? Dude, I kind of got like for a week or so, I would say depressed but I kind of

got into a funk. What the hell am I going to do with my life? Every day I would wake up for the

last 20 years. How can I be better fighter? What's new in fitness? How can I push myself? I want to be

the champion and then boom, you lay the gloves down and you wake up and you're a fucking civilian.

It feels crazy. It's like I'm relearning who I am. I always knew fighting was just something I did.

It wasn't who I was. But after 20 years of doing it, even though you know that and you think that,

like it fuck, I don't know who I am without fighting. How long did it take me to fight? I'm a

husband. I'm a lot of things. But like fighting was a cloud in my mind that never went away for 20 years.

Right. And now I wake up and it's gone. Like, what do I do? I'm still trying to find out, Joe. I

don't know. Did you still get nervous when you would go to events? You know that feeling that you

get like you when I competed competing? No, no, no, when you go to other events for other people.

Yeah, just feeling like you might have to compete. Dude, my hands are sweaty. Yeah.

Yeah. That's weird, right? For sure. I mean, obviously, it just happened to me last

a couple of weeks when Max fought Charles. I was nervous. I had armpits. My hands are sweating.

I'm like, dude, I hope those people don't see this right because you feel like you're still there.

I'm connected to both these guys for some reason. Well, you are forever. Yeah. That's the thing.

That's what's so interesting about watching like old fighters, even old boxes when they go to like

hall fame ceremonies and they see each other and hug and like those guys are connected in time

forever. Yeah. Max came up to the desk and I was like, we spent an hour of our lives fighting

each other, you know, as hard as we could. He didn't even know. He's like, no way, an hour.

Like, yeah, dude, we went to two decisions, two five round decisions and we fought. The first

fight was one or two rounds. So it's an hour of fight. Yeah. We spent an hour beating each other up.

That is crazy when you think about it. An hour is a long time. And now is a long time to fight

another man, especially bearing your soul in front of the world. It's not a regular hour.

Just hanging out at the beach. It's the biggest hour. Yeah. And it's an hour you're prepared for

for months each time. But because of that, like, like you were saying with the boxes, like we know

we have an unwritten thing we know about each other. Yeah. You know, something we never spoke

about, but we know each other better than a lot of people do. Yeah. You know when a person breaks

and who doesn't break. Max doesn't break. He doesn't break. I mean, you see it in that fight. I mean,

how does he how does he go through that whole round and not get submitted? Yeah.

Dry with all of air on his back and cut close a few times. Like first. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Like that Oshinyayoki where you go the angle, you can choke through the jaw. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Guys go to sleep. Neck crank it or choke you to sleep. Yeah. Well, even just a rear naked

across your face. I've seen guys go to sleep. Yeah. They just go to sleep. You try not to tap

and just wake up and you're like, how did he choke me out over my face? Because it's like

if you get enough torture and crank it'll, yeah, cut off the vein or whatever, you know, it'll

it'll it'll put you out. It's enough. It's which is nuts. And it's so much pain on the jaw too.

Oh, it's horrible. Choking, getting lack of oxygen to the brain is one thing. Like the jaw

binding up against the bones. Like, you know, that sharp pain you get when somebody's face cranking

you in your jaw. Hell. Yeah, it feels like it's going to dislocate. Yeah. Well, that was the thing

with Kabeab and Connor. We did that torque, that torque crank where he got his neck and he's

cinched it up with the forearm behind the neck and pulls back like this. Like that is hell.

And those guys squeeze is different. Those guys squeeze is different. What is something about

lifelong grapplers? There's like a density to them that's just different. The density, the strength

and just like the knowing of where to put the pressure and what angle to turn your hips to make

a big difference. You know, people outside don't even see it, but it's so, so crucial in the moment.

Yeah. When somebody's on your back and they just turn a little bit to the elbow, you know,

rather than just squeeze straight on small things like that or, you know, what when fights?

I'll tell you the fight that I'm really looking forward to. Really looking forward to because I don't

know what's going to happen. Is Homspot versus Strickland. I'm very interested in that fight. Strickland

is a fucking nightmare standing up for sure for sure. When he did a fluffy Hernandez, I was like,

holy shit man. The body shot the finish, but he made fluffy fight. You know, he fights at a slower

pace. He has his own pace in there and he kind of forces the other guy to fight his opponent has to

fight this pace with him. I think the best the best chance is to to blitz him do unorthodox things

because he wants to jab circle throw kick jab circle. He keeps a very slow pace. He's not sprinting

or trying to blast you out of there. He just chips chips chips away high guard. Good show. Yeah.

Very good show. His defense is extraordinary. He, you know, one of the things he was telling me is like,

I spar more than anybody and I get hit less than anybody. And that is true. Like if you think about

how much that guy spars, it's a giant part of training. Look at James Tony. He was hard. He was hard

to hit and all he did was spar. Yeah. You know, right. Perfect example. There's something taught in that

in those hundred percent. Yeah. Understanding of distance timing pattern recognition. You're

constantly in there moving around. Right. It's like, and then there's also the cardio that comes from

sparring. Yeah. It's different. Yeah. Like he, because his cardio is almost entirely based on sparring.

And man, I'm not the fucker doesn't get tired in there. Right. And the fluffy fight was like, I

thought fluffy was going to be a problem. I'm like, fluffy is really good, man. You think he

submitted a dolphin of the era. He's got all this fucking crazy cardio. He puts a pace on guys.

And Strickland made it look like he just did not belong in there. He's so heavy on that

front foot though. I can't believe guys aren't smashing that calf, man. I know. Well, he's hard to

hit, man. And he also knows how to do that, that, um, fucking the, the hacky sack thing. Or,

you know, like you're bending your knee upwards. You know what I mean? Check it. Yeah. Well, you

don't even check it. You just kind of like a relax your leg and lift it up. You know who,

showed me that is Alex Pereira. He's like, instead of checking it, it was like, if you check it,

it still hurts you. For sure. But he just lifts his leg up. He just goes heel to knee on the opposite

side. And so like a hacky sack. Right. Right. I've seen guys take thigh leg kicks like that.

Yeah. Kind of let it swing a little, but he does it with the calf. So it's like, he sees it coming.

It's set up doing that, stepping out and checking it. He just like, like, see that? Yeah. Yeah. That's

it. Well, that, I think in this instance, I think that was probably the, I don't know if that was

the first fight of this second fight. But is he's calf was already done? He was really happy. He told

me after that fight, he goes, when he got stopped in the first fight, he goes, dude, I wasn't even that

hurt. It wasn't that. He goes, I couldn't move. He goes, my calf was, it doesn't, it doesn't go away.

Yeah. That was crazy. That, that's hard to do. That's, that's kind of silly. That's hard. That's

kind of silly. I don't think he really does that block it with the bottom of your foot. He could,

though. I'm very interested in that fight, too. Him versus zero gone. That's very interesting.

For sure. For sure. And I know the power is going to translate over to heavyweight. That's not

going in a percent. He'll be out of flatline heavyweights. 100%. Especially with zero weight cut.

Yeah. He's probably two thirty two forty walking on two thirty something. Maybe he's two forty.

Yeah. Dude, come on. He's two forty walking around. That's a legit heavyweight. He's a legit

heavyweight. That's all long. Fucking guy for eighty five. But so is zero, man.

Zero's good. An athlete heavyweight. Not just a big guy fighting at heavyweight. He's a legit heavyweight.

It is a crime in the sport that that fight with Aspenal got stopped the way he did that he

I poked him. It's a crime. Yeah. Because that fight was playing out in a very interesting direction.

Because Aspenal was having a really hard time touching that. He was bleeding. He was getting

touched it up. He was getting touched up a lot. Searyl's jab is legit. And that's what I was

most excited for. I wanted to see Tom have to come back lose around and come up. I've never seen

him. I've obviously seen him fight, but I've never seen him in a real fight where you have to fight

your way back into it or how many times he's been in the second round twice. Maybe something crazy

like that nuts. And that's why the fan base kind of blew me away. I was like these guys are so

high on Aspenal right now. Like for a few months, everybody was talking about Aspenal how good he

is. I've never seen it. Not that he's not. He might. I mean, he has to be good to be where he's at.

Yeah. But I haven't seen it. Well, my thought was the real problem that Aspenal is going to

present is in the grappling. He's presuming he did to black belt. He's a big fucker. He's fast.

He's got a power double. I mean, he explodes. But when he's standing there and trying to stand

with Searyl gone, this is the first time that he was ever in front of a guy who was agile and

quick and very technical. Right. Searyl gone was doing a lot of sneaky shit. One thing he does is

he keeps his hand low and they pops that jab out. So you don't know where it's coming from.

Up jab. He does a lot of weird shit with his front leg too. He's pretty quick for his size.

Real quick. Real quick. And he's a good buddy. Good hips. Yeah, man. Searyl's a great athlete.

Like it's not just that I've seen him dunk basketballs and shit like he's he can move.

Right. But it's just the fluidity of his striking is so efficient. Like that's his world.

If you just want to strike with him. Yeah. I mean, John Jones is so smart. John's like,

fuck all this. Get a team. Even Francis. Francis, well, he had a brawler out knee in that fight.

But Francis just like took him down and beat him up. Yeah, man. But that's a different Searyl.

That's a Searyl that wasn't concentrating enough on his grappling and probably never

thought that Francis could employ that tactic. Right. And then really worked with a lot of

wrestlers and try to evolve his game. And you know, Francis is on that Nate Jake card as well.

Right. Right. He's fighting Philip Lins as a 8 to T guy. Yeah. How good is he?

I've never really watched him train that much. I know he made it to the UFC for a stint.

Then he went PFL. I'm not sure how good he is. Yeah. It's seen him at the gym,

but I've never watched him train fortunate that there's not another big name for him to fight.

Like, I was hoping they could get a big name. Bops out.

I mean, who would be the big name? Like, who's a heavyweight? Yeah, heavyweight. That's

still talented. No one. Yeah. Heavyweight is the most shallow division in the sport.

Peer. Kane's out of jail. Get him in shape.

Well, Kane's got crazy back surgeries and knee surgery and shoulder surgery.

Yeah. Kane was like too tough for his own body. And all the years of wrestling, man.

Where in Terry? Where in Terry?

Well, also just never given his body a break, just constantly grinded and pushing.

And that's why he was so good. I think in his prime the best.

I think he was the best. Well, he was certainly in the argument.

In my mind, it's him and Fedor, but honorable mention always, I give to Fabrizio Verdume.

Yeah. As Fabrizio Verdume, people want to think about losses.

Think about peak performances. Fabrizio Verdume tapped everybody.

He tapped all the legends. Great. He tapped Minotaro.

He tapped Fedor and he tapped Kane. Like, just that, just that alone.

He tapped all the legends. I don't know why he's named it. Like, when I was thinking about

heavyweights, why his name doesn't even come in. I always want to give him respect.

I always put it out there because the same way I do with BJ Penn, because people for,

they only want to think about BJ Penn. Maybe when he fought Frankie Edgar or when he fought,

yeah, you're right. You guys go back to BJ Penn when he fought Sean. Sure.

Go back to BJ Penn when he fought Diego Sanchez. That BJ Penn was a mother fucker.

Joe Stevenson. Yes. Joe Daddy Stevenson. You got to think about the guys when they're in their

prime, when they're at, when they're redlining for X amount of years at peak performance.

When you're talking about like all-time greats, I get it. All-time greats, you got to think

about guys like John Jones. It could be, but you never lost. They stayed flawless their entire

career. You're right. But for peak performance, when they're at their best, how good were they?

I put prime time BJ Penn at 155 against almost anybody. You're right, man. Bro, he was so good.

And his Jiu-Jitsu was so good. And he could knock you out. And he was an animal.

Just when he was training with Marv Barinovich, when he went over there and was like really learning

how to get in, in sane shape. And he would come there with...

Rocks underwater. All that shit. I think the Karen Rocks was him.

Marv Barinovich had him doing a lot of crazy plyometric stuff. And the Marv Barinovich's strategy was,

you already know how to fight. Fuck all this fighting. You know how to fight. What we're going to do

is just give you the most insane gas tank. So your fight training is like secondary. What's really

important is just having the most spectacular gas tank so you never get tired. But he hated those

camps, man. He hated it. Even in the peak of his shape, he was still a little soft. He was never

shredded. He was pretty shredded when he fought Joe Stevenson. Yeah, he had a six pack. He looked

good. I mean, he was different, but at 55, it was different. And everybody's body types different.

Well, at 70, he was never really at 170. You know, he was never... I mean, he's much smaller than

you. He was never really at 170. He was just so top that he went up to 170 and beat a prime time

at Hughes. Yeah. I mean, he stuck around longer than he should have. He definitely did. He did.

And that's what we fought without training well sometimes. And that's the thing people remember.

Yes. I hate that though. They remember that one fight we fought on. It was Tippy Toes. Remember

that fight? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. We're shit. But you got to think about him in his prime. That's

what I always say. Don't look at it. Like for Breeze over Doom. Don't look at all the fights. Look

at the fights when he was in his prime. He was putting it all together. Breeze was a nightmare.

It was a nightmare. Like when they hit their stride. That's what I was scared about staying around

the fighting too long. Like I retired at 36. I'm like, perfect. How much more athletic am I going to

get? How much faster am I going to get? How much power is the last thing to go? But durability,

speed, reaction time, everything that I need. Like, and if I'm not right in line for a title shot

or knocking on the door of it, like, what am I doing? Right. I'm fighting just to fight.

Crazy. That's when I had to look myself in the mirror. You know, like, okay, this is it.

I'm going to. You did the right thing. Be healthy. What's my faculties for the most part?

The age that you retired was the age that you over marrow entered into the UFC. Yeah.

Yeah. Isn't that nuts? Yeah. It really is crazy if you think about it because that's really what

I and there's a few outliers out there in the sport. Like in boxing, Usik is the great outlier.

Terrence Crawford is another great outlier. Dude, what about Usik and Rico? Crazy.

Super nice guy. I love Rico, man. Super nice guy. He's a nice guy, but without leg kicks,

the fact that he's going to just box and he's going to box maybe the best technical heavyweight

that's ever lived. I don't know, man. I learned my lesson, dude. I bet $5,000 on Fury.

Did you? Yeah. The second fight? Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. If anybody can beat him, it's Tyson Fury.

If anybody can beat Usik, it's Tyson Fury because Tyson Fury was beating him in the first fight.

He just got clipped. He got clipped and then I think it was the ninth. He got really badly hurt.

I don't remember what round it was, but he got really badly hurt and dropped. But Usik is just so slick.

Yeah, man. His footwork is movement. He's in the fact that he's essentially a blown-up

cruiserweight and he's beating all these giant heavyweights like Dubois. Daniel Dubois is terrifying.

Well, he did the Joshua just charged forward and just put fucking leather on his face.

Yeah. Rico is a real heavyweight, but he's not a pure boxer. No. I mean, he can hit hard.

I mean, there's that. But he's such a great kicker. You're taking a weapon away.

You're taking it all right. It's interesting. It's a spectacle. I'm watching for sure,

but I don't know. I'm sure he's boxed with a lot of like really elite boxers in the gym.

I mean, but over the years, for sure, for sure, he has the payday's probably bananas.

I'm sure they're fighting in front of the pyramids. Not crazy. Who's putting this together?

Who put that together? I have no idea. Aliens. That's where they're going to land.

They need to do it. The Colosseum fight in MMA or boxing where they set it up either in the Colosseum,

or right in front. You know, that'll be crazy. Well, they were talking about doing that with

Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg. They were talking about that. A real fight. I know,

that's so crazy. Dude, that would be so crazy. Have those guys be the first fight.

Do that when I met a headquarters or something. Don't do that at the Colosseum. Don't disrespect the

don't disrespect the Colosseum. I know. That's silly. So where who's live at the

parents of Giza, WBC World Heavyweight Championship, the zone, but like, I wonder who the promoter is.

WBC, I don't. Is that their faces? That's so ridiculous. Look at their circular,

golden gloves on. Glory in Giza. It's going to be interesting, man. I'm excited about it.

I wonder who's going to buy that. How much is that going to cost? I'm going to buy it.

But I mean, how many people are going to buy that? You know what I mean? I got to buy it because

it's, I love Rico. I've had Rico on the show. I think he's the greatest heavyweight kickboxer

of all time. For sure. I feel like the way combat sports has kind of intertwined all different

stuff, boxing, MMA, how big mixed martial arts is now. You're going to get a lot of crossover before

you'd get a lot of hardcore boxing fans buying this pay-per-view. But now you're kind of going to get

a little bit of everything. Kickboxing MMA boxing fans. Glory has such a small audience,

unfortunately. And this was the, you know, this is the argument that Dana has said to me,

because kickboxing in America that they tried with Glory. I just don't think they got the right

promotion. I think if the UFC wasn't there. I mean, it's non-stop action. It's highlights the

whole time. It's what I'm saying. I feel like if the UFC got behind kickboxing in America,

it could be gigantic, especially kickboxing with MMA gloves. Giza Lee of Guy was fighting in the

octagon. No fucking gigantic. That would be. Or Yuki Yoza. There's another guy.

Masata Nori is a bunch of guys. There's a bunch of guys that are like really elite that are fighting.

Yeah. Oh, a bunch, man. A lot, a lot, a lot.

Yeah, Masaki Nori. Usic opened to fighting John Jones and crossover MMA fight. What?

Wait, okay. Now you got me interested. Dude, if the UFC comes up with the cheddar,

you better start wrestling now. Yeah, you better start wrestling right now.

Is that real? Did he say that? Rico is first. Second is whoever wins between

Wardley and Dubois. And the third fight is my fed greedy belly Tyson Fury. So he's not a,

a rematch with Dubois. A tough sell. He just starched him. The Tyson Fury fight is the big

fight because Tyson Fury is the only guy that in my eyes makes sense. Says a fight with Jake

Paul and MMA at this stage is not being considered. But we're always open to creative and interesting

collaborations in the future. If we were talking about crossover fights, a very interesting matchup

could be against John Jones in the United States. Whoa. I don't know what John's gonna do, man,

with all the stuff going on with the UFC. He might be done. Who knows? He doesn't want to be done.

I know he got stem cells on his hip. I know because I helped him get it. He got it over at,

he's talked about it. I wouldn't have talked about it, but he talked about it. He got it at

waist a well. And so he's feeling a lot better. He does have arthritis in his hip. It bothers him,

but it doesn't bother him enough where he can't fight. And you know, he's the greatest of all time.

Period. I did stem cells and PRP in my hip. I didn't notice anything from that.

Well, it really depends on where you're getting the stem cells, what technology they're using.

There's a bunch of different kinds of stem cells. Yeah, yeah. Talk to Brigham about that. He can

explain it to you. I got it. Maybe one. You had a labrum tear, right? It was pretty significant.

Yeah. And I had to get the head of my femur reshaped, like a resurfacing. It was kind of egg-shaped

and it needs to be rounded. So it tore everything off the inside of my hip. So how do they do that?

They take your leg out of socket. They shave the top rounded and then they micro,

they put like a bunch of small holes in it to where it cracks and then stem cells leak out of

your body to create a new surface out of your bone. How long did that take to recover? I couldn't

put pressure on it for eight weeks. Wow. Yeah, because it's like. So you're just walking around on

one leg, two months. And then once you start walking on it, how weird was it? Very weird,

because I had to sleep in like a motion machine where my leg wouldn't stop moving at night.

Oh my god. Because your hip capsule is like tricky. If it if it heals up too tight,

you know, your leg won't have any any range of motion at all. So while it's healing,

you need to be in perpetual motion, I guess. That's crazy. And every week they would send a new code

for my wife to type in the machine and it would be a little bit different angle. Whoa. Yeah.

So my what a nightmare. For those eight weeks, I was sleeping in this metal brace that moved my