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Joe sits down with Dustin Poirier, a mixed martial artist, entrepreneur, and philanthropist.
www.ufc.com/athlete/dustin-poirier
www.thegoodfightgroup.com
www.diamondpoirier.com
Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan.
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The Joe Rogan Experience.
Showing my day, Joe Rogan podcasted my night all day.
Was that the moon?
My friend.
It's gonna be back, bro.
Dustin Poie, the light heavyweight.
It's thick boy summer.
You look at healthy sun.
Yeah, like 190, man.
You look good, man.
I feel good, dude.
It feels good to eat in that count carbohydrates and calories.
Yeah, we were talking about that.
Like, still like a little part of you.
Like, looks at meals and goes, uh.
Well, I mean, for the last 20 years,
I've been macro and, you know, I knew I had a fight coming up.
Even if I didn't have a fight, I had to be in striking range from 155.
Right.
So I was always looking at the back of every label,
being real cautious and what I eat.
It's like ingrained in my daughter now.
When we go to Whole Foods, she'll grab something off the counter
and say, that it only has three ingredients.
Like, she knows what's up.
Well, it's good to think that way anyway.
For sure.
Especially with the ingredients.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's the first thing she goes to.
Like, if she wants some chips,
it only has five ingredients.
That's like a thing for her when we're shopping.
Yeah.
Well, that's smart, man.
That's cool.
You're raising them right.
I'm trying to, bro.
I'm trying to put the stuff I learned in fighting, you know,
all the years.
Yeah.
It's good news.
It is kind of crazy.
I think it's the worst thing about fighting is the weight cutting.
Do you imagine if everybody just, first of all,
tell me if you agree.
But I think the UFC needs way more weight.
I do too.
Way more.
I do too.
Because the gaps are so big.
I mean, just if you look at boxing compared to Mix Martial Arts,
the jumps in weight are so big from each weight class.
But also, all the shows they're putting on,
they'd have more titles, more belts, more big fights.
But also, man, with that, there's going to be a lot of people
trying to cut a little bit extra, trying to be double-champ in every
weight class.
I think it does cause more confusion.
Yeah, but that's better than the extreme weight cuts.
You saw that, dude, a few, like,
I guess it was about three events ago,
who face planted and got removed off the card.
Yeah.
That is crazy.
You're getting someone to the brink of death,
24 hours before they have an MMA fight,
which is the most, if not the most dangerous sport,
one of the most dangerous sports in the world.
For sure.
And you're doing something to your body to extremely weaken it,
24 hours before you fight.
It's bananas.
Dude, I did it so many times.
You preach it to the choir.
I know.
There's been so many times I felt like that,
like, stand up too quick after a weight cut,
and I'm like, you know, I might go down.
Oh, dude, I mean, I can only imagine,
when you see someone like Pereira that's cutting,
like, 25 pounds and more, when he was 185,
I mean, that guy was fighting inside the octagon
at 225 and weighing in at 185, 24 hours before.
That's crazy.
And even when he's big, he's lean.
You know, it's not like he's fluffy.
Well, they say that when you're muscular,
it's easier to cut weight.
More water.
Yeah.
Yeah, which is counterintuitive.
You see a fat guy.
You're like, oh, that guy can cut weight.
But you really can't because you can't replenish your fat.
Right.
Not in a training camp's time, eight weeks,
ten weeks, you can't lose, like, 30 pounds of fat.
But I don't think you can dehydrate yourself.
I said, replenish, like it was a real word.
You can dehydrate yourself.
I don't think it is a word.
Deplenish.
Well, if you can replenish.
Right.
But no one says deplenish.
Can you replenish?
No.
You say deplete.
But I just threw it out there.
Like, it was real.
I don't think deplenish is a word.
Is that a word?
Yeah.
It is?
I don't think you ever used it that way.
Oh.
Okay.
Nice, man.
Nice.
I got lucky.
That was just luck.
But I talked to Hunter about it.
Hunter Campbell.
And we're trying to figure out a way.
Um, without, it has to be more weight classes.
I mean, California instituted a bunch of different weight classes.
I think, um, I think they were doing it every 10 pounds.
I think California also did like a percentage of your, your body weight.
I don't know.
What was it?
15, 20%.
You couldn't dehydrate more than that.
That guy handy fosters on the ball.
And I think that's good, you know?
Yeah.
20% or whatever.
Some kind of rule where guys aren't cutting 50 pounds.
40 pounds.
Still crazy.
Yeah.
Still crazy.
Yeah.
You're right.
200 pounds, 40 pounds.
I mean, it's a lot of weight.
Well, that's another thing that freaks boxers out when I tell them that there's a weight limit
at heavy weight.
It's 65.
That doesn't make any sense.
I go, I agree.
Why is there a weight limit for heavy weight?
That's crazy.
Dude, that, that, that gap too, like 205, anything over that, you can be 210 to 265.
That's crazy.
A 50 pound gap that you, you know, but.
Well, heavy weight in boxing, like, look, Mike Tyson, when he was in his prime, was
only like 220 to 15 to 20, you know, that's where he, when he was dominating, that's where
he kind of fell in that weight limit.
I wouldn't, I think it would be a good idea, anything to pass like 230 to 35, super heavy
weight.
Yeah.
You know?
Well, the difference been boxing, though, is the grappling.
The grappling in MMA, the gap, if a guy gets on top of you, is immense.
Yeah.
Like, in Ghana, when he was in his prime, was weighing over like 300 pounds and then
cutting down to 265.
He was a 300 pound natural.
He's a guy who's like a knockdown power for sure, but grappling, like if you get a big
guy who's 265 and knows how to grapple very well, wrestled his whole life, they get in
side control or half guard, you're not getting up.
That's the end of the round.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Also, if they did do a super heavy, the fights might be either awesome or it's completely
suck.
I think it should be, heavy weight should be unlimited.
And then you'll find out, yeah, because like Kane Velasquez, no one's holding that
dude down in his prime.
Even when he was 240, when he was 240 and he fought Lesnar, Lesnar was gigantic, but
it didn't matter because the cardio that Kane had and the speed and his technique sort
of it.
He was ahead of his time.
Yeah.
He was ahead of his time.
He was like a hybrid, can do everything, great cardio, good athlete before MMA got to
where it's at now.
Yeah.
And the fight that I always say that we missed is Kane and Fedor in their primes, because
they were bolting their prime at the same time and they never made that happen.
When UFC absorbed the pride roster and stuff, I was crazy, it's crazy that Fedor never fought
in the UFC at all, man.
Well, they tried, the UFC tried, but Fedor's management were a bunch of very dangerous
dudes.
Yeah, you don't mess around with this guy.
Fuck it.
Yeah, man, there was like tense negotiations and they wanted a percentage of the promotion.
They wanted a lot more than just a big purse.
Yeah, UFC's not playing that game.
No, they were like, look, we'll give you a very healthy purse, we'll bring Fedor over
here.
But the problem was when they purchased pride, they thought they were getting everyone's
contracts, but the contracts were all bullshit.
Well, some guys came over on crazy, crazy money contracts, I think Dan Henderson might have
been one.
I was a young fighter one time and I was making this might have been 2013 or 2014, I don't
know.
And they came to give me my check.
This is back in the day before they wired, they used to give us checks on fight night.
And they had, they were going through the checks and I saw Dan's and I saw the number and
I couldn't believe it.
This is before like people posting online fighter pay and all that and I saw the numbers
he was making.
I was like, no way, guys, Rich, this is a make it angry.
Nah, nah, because the future myself looking back or looking forward when guys are going
to be fighting for belts and stuff, the money they're going to make in five years, I'm
going to be, I'm going to be that guy like, damn, you know, I got out too early or, you
know how it is, the next generation always gets more, Mike Brown tells me that all the
time.
Do you, I was fighting for the belt and WEC defending it, making this, you guys on the
prelims are making more than I was making, you know?
Yeah, there's a weird, that sort of discussion about fight or pay, you know, I've always
been of the opinion that fighter should be making more money period because like the
same way I feel about like the way I run my comedy club, the comedians make 80% of
the money because I feel like that's who's, you're paying to see, you're paying to see
them.
We make plenty of money like with drinks and 20% of the ticket sales, it's like it's
enough.
Like it should be the, if we had a comedy club and there's no comedians, no one's coming,
right?
No one's going to pay just to sit there and buy drinks.
Like the whole idea is they're paying to see someone's work.
If you fight, that's what people are paying to see, they're paying to see fighters.
Without the fighters, there's no show, without the comedians, there's no show, I understand.
But I think the big thing with the discussion of fighter pay is the percentages.
Yeah.
When you look at other major organizations like NFL, NBA, the percentages are so, so different.
Yeah, it's not good.
But dude, at the end of the day, I'm all for fighter pay too.
I've been fighting my whole life, but you sign the contract, you agree.
This is how business is done.
Push for, try to get more of what you worth, you know, you can't sign a contract and
complain.
Right.
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That's true too, but also it's like the reality of MMA is if you're not in the UFC, people
are not paying attention.
That's unfortunate, but it's reality.
I think there's some really good fighters that fight in the PFL and really good fighters
that fight in one, but no one knows who they are other than the hardcore dudes.
Right.
Yeah, I got a buddy, Johnny Ebblin, who was the Bellator champion.
Awesome.
I've been training with him since he started MMA when he got out of college wrestling and
stuff.
Right now, he can go to the UFC and give the top five guys a run for their money.
Absolutely.
No doubt in my mind.
He's only getting better.
Yeah.
Just because you fight in the UFC, that's a great organization to fight for.
The biggest, the most known worldwide, but, dude, there's great fighters everywhere.
You know, like on the mats at American Top Team, there's a dozen guys you've never heard
of that can make a run in the UFC right now.
That's what I heard as a nightmare about training at American Top Team because it's a revolving
door, man.
A hundred professional fighters on the mats at all times.
Different camps.
They have dorms.
So guys are from Russia.
Guys from all over the world are just in.
You never know who's going to be there and it's tough rounds, you know, every practice
and stuff.
Well, not only that, but I've heard there's like guys coming in from Russia and they'll throw
oblique kicks at your knees and you're like, hey, man, like, what are we doing here?
We're getting ready for fights.
We're not in a fight.
Right.
Yeah.
Like, some of these guys are trying to make their name off of a name guy and so you have
to be very selective in who you're spar with.
For sure.
And that's any, not just American Top Team, especially guys who are established, like if I go to
any gym here in Austin and it's open matter something, I have a target on my back.
Of course.
You know, that's everywhere.
Of course.
But those guys, man, like at a big gym like American Top Team with the knowledge and the
good coaches, those guys get weeded out.
That's, you know, you won't stay there long if you're doing that stuff.
The problem is if you're one of the guys that has to weed them out, like you find out
early on, this dude's, you know, throwing wheel kicks, full blast.
And then it happens all the time.
Oh, yeah.
Well, there's, you know, make sense.
I mean, you're from Dagestan or Chechnya or whatever, and you come to America, it's like,
this is your big chance.
And I do like to train hard to prepare for a fight.
You got to fight.
But, you know, you got to take care of each other.
We're professionals.
We're feeding our family with this.
Yeah.
And injury can ruin everything.
Well, there's so many fighters that get concussions in training and then, you know, they get chenny
when they get into the fight.
It happens all the time.
Yeah.
There was a lot of guys who got hit, me, yeah, like the early days, we didn't really
have classes that were organized, man.
It was just sparring and choking each other out and with four ounce gloves sparring, like
we didn't know.
Well, we didn't know.
Isn't that crazy?
Like 2006, dude, we used to beat each other up every day.
That was MMA training.
And then it wasn't these super gyms where everything was under one roof.
I would drive to a boxing gym, drive another 45 minutes to a jiu-jitsu gym.
You know, it was put everything together on fight night, but you would train everywhere
else because there wasn't mixed martial arts gyms back then, really.
I would drive to a kickboxing gym, boxing gym, wrestling, jiu-jitsu.
It was all separate.
Well, also, you were in a place that didn't have like a high volume of MMA fighters in your
state.
Right.
Back then, like Rich Climini, Melvin Gallaud, were the big guys from Louisiana, you know.
Right.
And then Crater came and got...
Crazy Tim.
Crazy Tim.
Crazy Tim got on the ultimate fighter.
And then I went to his gym once he got out of the TV show, and I, me and him, trained
for years and years.
He still has a gym in life at Louisiana.
I loved him.
I'm known Tim since I first worked out with him in like 98 at Machados.
Well, he was in maybe the Navy.
So he was in California station there, and I think that's when he started jiu-jitsu.
He was Louisiana's first black belt.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I knew him from that.
He was fighting, and he was fighting in the UFC.
And he was always around the MMA scene, him and Eve Edwards, were good friends.
They opened the gym maybe in Houston or something.
He was cornering Eve and pride, and then I met Eve through Tim, and it's just, it's a big
family, man.
Eve is a guy that I always say there was a time where he was the best 155 pounder on
Earth.
When he beat Josh Thompson, he's the uncrowned champion.
He should have been the uncrowned champion.
There wasn't a belt.
I know.
And that nuts.
And that nuts.
That's so hard for people to understand, like how crazy it is.
Like being through the lineage of jiu-jitsu, man, it sucks to say, like, that he can't
say he was a champion, but I know he was.
He was.
He was the best.
He was the best.
And at one point in time, he was the best.
He lived out here before he moved to LA.
So before I moved to South Florida, the training American top team, I used to drive six hours
here and stay with Eve.
He always had wrestlers down here.
This is like beginning of my WEC days.
I would drive down here and train with Eve, man.
He was another guy who was ahead, back in the day, because he comes from NHB.
Like hook and shoot, the crazy days, you know, and he was doing it all, good jiu-jitsu, good
kickboxing.
He fell in love with wrestling.
I was such a big fan of Eve, man.
He invented some moves, too.
You remember that one thing that he would do where guys were on a single and he hit a
dude with a flying knee, a jumping knee?
That was, dude, I'm going to make a story in, bro.
That was a lead XC, I believe, maybe.
Was it?
You know, that was Edson Burto.
Was it?
I think Andre Burto's brother, the boxer.
Wow.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
He had a single leg.
He was hopping and then jumped up and neat and out cold.
Yeah, it was crazy.
It is a lead XC.
Look at you, bro.
I mean, pray that again.
Look at this.
This move is brilliant.
That's brilliant.
That's Edson Burto.
Well, and I believe Andre and Edson's dad was a mixed martial artist.
Oh.
Yeah.
That's such a slick move.
Yeah, he's so crafty, man.
Oh, yeah.
Well, that head kick that he lent on Josh Thompson from the middle
of that wild, crazy scramble jumping roundhouse kick to the head.
Dude, and they still play it every opener at the USC.
Yeah.
They still play it.
As they shit, I mean, it was incredible.
Absolutely.
Yeah, I got to, you got to give credit to Eve.
He was one of the real pioneers.
For sure.
And way before this was cool.
Yeah.
Way before.
To be stuck at, like, 155, like, that was his weight class.
And then there's no title.
Yeah.
They were the two best guys in the world at that time, him and Josh Thompson.
Yeah.
Josh Thompson's another one doesn't get the credit he deserves.
That's it.
Boom.
Like, what a slick move, man.
But that was Eve, very creative, you know?
Yeah.
Man, Josh Thompson, like, peak Josh Thompson from me.
What was his strike force when him and Gilbert Melinda's maybe were going back and forth?
Didn't have like a goodness.
Yeah.
They might have had a trilogy.
It might have been two or three fights.
But every fight was amazing.
Gilbert Melinda's another guy who doesn't get the credit he deserves.
Dude, legend.
Legend, man.
Legend.
All those guys, they were the groundbreakers.
You know, a lot of these young kids coming up, you bring up Gilbert Melinda's, they're
like, who?
Like, bro, you need to know your history.
You need to know how this thing got started.
Go watch.
Even more newer stuff.
Go watch him in Diego.
Yeah.
Sanchez, right?
Slug it out.
Diego Sanchez is another guy that I say is a tweener, right?
He's a welterweight.
Yeah.
I mean, he really wasn't really a welterweight.
And you know, and lightweight, and he tried to get down to 45 for a while, but that was just
brutal.
He was killing himself, getting down to 45.
I remember seeing him making weight for 45.
I'm like, oh, this ain't good.
This ain't going to last long.
No.
Yeah.
But if like, there was a 165 pound weight class, Diego Sanchez might have been the champion
of the world.
Right.
Honestly, man, like, when I was competing, if they had a 65, I might have entertained
it.
It's too big of a gap because I trained with 70s in the UFC, and I know they're 200
something pounds.
And my heaviest, I was like 182, 183, maybe.
They're just too big, man.
Well, he got guys like Rumble Johnson, when Rumble was alive, Rumble got up to 230 pounds
in between.
No, he was huge, man.
Huge.
Huge.
I can't believe he made 170.
I remember.
He was, he was living in South Florida.
So I see him every now and then he was huge.
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He was the ultimate like, wait cutter, like he cut more weight than anybody when he was
fighting at 170.
It was bananas.
Like, how are you doing this?
I remember running into him at a hotel.
I was like, bro, how big are you?
And he was laughing.
He's like, I'm 230 right now.
And muscle.
Jack.
Yeah.
Like a heavyweight.
And he went up to heavyweight.
Crazy.
He was a legit heavyweight.
Yeah.
Dude, Andre's still fighting.
I know.
And winning.
The bear knuckle champion.
Winning.
He's the bear knuckle champion.
Like, how durable is that motherfucker?
For the years and the miles of that guy has, I have to say, like, taking shots receiving
damage.
I don't know if he takes it like he obviously doesn't take it like he used to, but his mobility
and his movement for all the wars he's had in the years he's been fighting.
When I watch him in the gym, dude, he's light on his feet, flexible.
Yeah.
He moves so well.
And enthusiasm, still has enthusiasm for the game, which is crazy.
He loves it.
He clearly loves it.
I mean, he was what?
UFC Heavyweight Champion in 2005?
Yeah.
Wasn't like 2005?
2005 or 2006?
2006, I think he beat Tim Silvia, maybe.
When he was the champ, first of all, that motherfucker had a piston for a right hand.
I remember when he caled Paul Buentello.
Oh my God.
That's a Texas guy.
Paul Buentello.
Another dude.
I believe he's from Galveston area or Corpus Christi or something.
He's from Texas.
Well, if you think Arlaski from 2005, and he was a top 10 heavyweight, as recently as
like 2023, well, when he came back to the UFC after that long gap, he went on a streak.
He had a bunch of great fights.
I think he knocked out Travis Brown.
Pete Travis Brown.
Which is crazy.
Did he fight Bigfoot?
Did him in Bigfoot?
Yes.
51 is 21.
2005.
February 5th, 2005.
That is bananas, man.
That really is bananas.
Man, back in the day, Tim Silvia used to train at ATT when I first got there.
He was the most uncoordinated, unathleted guy.
I couldn't believe he was the UFC champion, man.
I know.
He was like goofy.
Pigeon toad.
But down to fight.
Oh, down to fight.
Down to fight.
Yeah, for short pigeon toad, his knees were weird.
Yeah.
Yeah, they went in.
Like, I don't, I tried to talk to a trainer about that.
He was, that's learned.
Like, you can correct that.
What the knee?
Yeah.
The knee's bowed in like that was, he said that's a learn, you could, you could correct
that.
I was like, really?
How do you?
What?
I never heard of that.
Oh, yeah.
I didn't understand how he seems like something they would do.
Maybe when you're born surgery, like reposition the bones or something, no?
Well, I don't know if it is, I don't know.
I mean, I'd have to, I don't want to speak out of turn.
I'd have to bring in that guy and have him explain to me how you could correct that.
Yeah.
That's something that could be corrected.
That's like learned behavior.
It's just from being so big.
But dude, watching him with his toes pointed out, doing the ladder drills and stuff, you
know, the, the ladders on the mat, in and out, like, it was so great.
Well, big guys have their toes pointed out like that.
Like, jelly roll went from 500 pounds and he's down to the, he's in the low 200s now,
which is crazy.
Yeah.
Let's do it.
I saw pictures of him looks completely different.
He's lost like 300 pounds and he did it the right way.
Yeah.
Like, just like diet, exercise, runs all the time.
But he has a problem when he walks, his toes are pointed out and he's trying to correct
it.
He's trying to be aware of it.
Yeah.
When he runs, he runs the right way, like feet pointed forward.
You see it too on the, on the bigger guys shoes.
The corners of the shoes are always flat, like flat tires on the outside.
Yeah.
They just walk that way, man.
Well, you got to think you have so much weight.
You got to, you kind of kind of stretch out to kind of balance yourself.
Yeah.
Point to Tim Silvia when he knocked out Rico, Rico Rodriguez, that, oh, that Tim Silvia
was a beast, dude.
That was back when all the Mexican supplements were allowed.
There was a lot of dudes who are very juicy.
Oh, yeah.
And Tim, giant traps and huge fucking shoulders and, yeah, I remember he struggled to get
down to 265 for that fight.
Yeah.
Back in the day with the juice was just free flowing.
Free.
The UFC desk with bisming in Vegas when Max and Charles fought.
And we started talking about the same thing we're talking about now.
And he was like, oh, I fought Vito, I fought them all in the height of TRT.
Right.
You know, he's fought.
That was legal juice, which was bananas.
I mean, Alistair, oh, yeah, that was the juiciest fight of all time.
Yeah.
Alistair versus, versus Brock was the juiciest fight all time.
Yeah.
I recently watched the Mark Hunt documentary.
And he's trying to like push back and do a lawsuit against the UFC for all the juicing
and stuff of it.
I mean, it's such a, yeah, that's a tough, that's a tough road because how much can the
UFC do?
I mean, and it's on the athletic commission as well, right?
Wouldn't the lawsuit be against the state, not the UFC?
I think his position is that the UFC knew that, but how would they know that Brock was
juicing?
I don't know.
Random drug tests, I believe.
Yes.
It was before.
So that would, I feel like that would fall on the state athletic commission.
Maybe it wasn't before because he did get popped, you know, but it wasn't random.
They weren't, you know, no, no, no, show up in camp.
No, no, no, that the back in the day you would get tested on fight night.
Right.
You know, they wouldn't knock at your door.
Well, it was super clear that Brock was doing something.
It was super clear, like he was like in his late 30s, he's built like a fucking, like
a side of a barn.
I mean, there's a bunch of guys back then.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it wasn't frown.
It was okay.
Everybody was doing it.
It wasn't, it wasn't, right?
Because it was illegal, but it was like, when you have fight day drug tests, that's an
intelligence test.
That's all that is.
Right.
That's whether or not you have good people in your corner, right, and whether or not
you have a chemist.
It's going to take this amount of weeks to get out of this many days to get out of your
system.
There are certain camps that would employ scientists and these scientists are always going
to be ahead.
You know, they're always going to be coming up with something new, trying to stay ahead
of the curve and get away with stuff.
And I still think they're probably doing it, man.
Yeah.
There's probably something that we don't know right now, and it's going to come out in
the future.
That's why they hold on to the drug tests for a prolonged period of time.
Yeah.
They ask you, you're consent, you have to do an extra signature if you let them test it
or use it for.
What do you do if you say no?
I don't know.
I never said no.
Give it to them.
Well, it's good for you, because you're clean.
Yeah, I competed my whole career clean, man.
Nothing.
Nothing.
I was even scared of certain creatine.
I got the trust to buy sport on everything, because I was so scared to be one of those guys.
Because every time I see it, the tainted supplement, yeah, sure, buddy.
But you know, sure, tainted supplement, but it could be, you know, I don't want to be
one of those guys.
Well, for sure there are tainted supplements.
That's a real thing.
And you know, I know that for a fact, because as one of the owners of on it, when we were
doing, we're doing third party testing of some of our supplements, we would find stuff
in there that's not supposed to be in there.
And so we'd have to contact the distributor, the manufacturer, and the people that like
mixed our stuff.
So the way like on it would work is like alpha brain has a bunch of different ingredients
that enhance your, you know, your mental focus and clarity.
And we would give them the very specific numbers of what's supposed to be in each
batch.
And then we would third party tests, we find a bunch of shit in there that's not supposed
to be in there.
And it's because, you know, if you're getting it done overseas, they have these vats where
they mix all the stuff in and they don't even clean the vats.
Right.
Right.
They dump it out and then they dump the new stuff in there without cleaning it.
There's residue in there.
And then also the level of drug testing, how high these things can sense anything, right?
Even if there's a tiny bit, they'll find it, right with John Jones, right?
It was picograms.
We got introduced to the term picograms, like a grain of salt and a swimming pool they
can find.
They say, yeah.
So the testing is legit.
And I'm glad, you know, we're fighting.
We're kneeing each other in the face.
If we were running track or something, I would, exactly.
But we're fighting.
You can get seriously injured, man.
Exactly.
I've always been against the doping.
But I'm retired now, Joe.
I'm retired now.
Now you can get through.
Yeah.
I love what you guys get.
Well, Cowboy got real jack too afterwards.
But then he talked about coming back and then he got off of everything.
That's the thing though.
Like always back in the day, all the TRT guys, like if you change your body's natural production
of testosterone with exogenous testosterone, you have to be on it for the rest of your
life.
Well, you don't have to because there's things called HCG and HCG and clomaphine can restart
your body's production of testosterone.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because I know your testicles will stop producing.
Exactly.
You introduce foreign testosterone, right?
Well, for a period of time, especially when you're a young man, you can restart it.
But you know, my production, I've been on TRT since I was like late 30s, like it's
not coming back.
Yeah.
I'm shooting blanks.
Yeah.
Papal.
But you're good.
But two, my daughters were born while I was on TRT.
So it does work.
I just had limited amount.
I had soldiers just one fucking special ops guy the front only one was marching, but he
got through black ops.
Yeah.
So if you think about like all of the time where people were allowed to dope, it is a
giant percentage of the history of MMA, like pride.
The further you go back for sure.
For sure.
For sure.
Pride.
It was juicy as juice.
Like Ensen Inuay when he was on the podcast told me that in the contract that said in
all capital letters, we do not test forced steroids.
We aren't looking.
I've heard other people say that as well.
We aren't looking.
Thumbs up.
Green light.
Shoot up the juice.
Come fight.
We'll pay you cash.
Get out of here.
They wanted you to juice.
They wanted you to fight better.
Which is like, it becomes a spectacle, but man, people can get seriously injured.
You can.
Especially.
But then also the thing is like, does it make you more durable?
I think it does.
I think it does.
I think it does, man, because just one that right off the top of my head, when Bigfoot
Silva was TRT or whatever he was on, he was so durable, so durable.
Him and Mark Han had those crazy fights, but when he got off, he started getting knocked
out.
You know?
But there's also the switch.
There's something that happens when you've had a certain amount of concussions where
that's right.
Another guy that comes to mind.
Remember Eric Silva?
Yeah.
Well, to wait.
It was huge.
Dude, whenever they started doing their useata stuff, he was getting knocked out and just
wasn't himself.
He didn't look the same.
He felt it.
I wonder what the medical reason for that is, but I think it has something to do with confidence
in self-belief with the testosterone.
They just, I think that's a big part of it.
It's definitely a part of it, but also there's a part of it.
You're just more durable.
I mean, when you're jacked up on testosterone, you're just more fucking durable.
Yeah.
Everything about you is more durable.
Alistair is a great example of that.
Like animal mode, man.
Yeah, man.
Dude, I think Alistair over him when he was ubering, I think that is the best argument
for TRT ever.
It's like a superhero.
Bro, when he was in K1 and he was shelling up, how are you getting through that?
How are you getting through that chest?
You know how small he was though, back in K1?
He was like a 205 or something.
Well, no.
Pride.
Pride when he was fighting it, light everyone, chuck knocked him out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lidell knocked him out when he was a legit light heavyweight and he was skinny.
Yeah.
And young and skinny.
He just decided time to get big.
Hey, look at him back then when he fought show gun.
Still pretty jacked though.
Oh, yeah, man.
He was shredded.
He was shredded, but he was a shredded light heavyweight.
You know, I think he's a vegan now.
That's you.
Look at that.
Come on, son.
Come on, son.
That's a ribeye.
Is that a vegan right there?
I'm talking about, I mean, that's what a UFC heavyweight champion is supposed to look
like.
Come on, son.
I mean, put that on the white house.
Not just that, but highly skilled.
For sure.
He wasn't just jacked.
He was highly, I mean, there's like K1 Grand Prix champion.
I mean, that dude was the cream of the crop at kickboxing.
He was the cream of the crop in MMA and he even won the Abu Dhabi European trials as
a pure grappler.
Yeah.
People don't know about that about Alistair.
His grappling is high.
Very.
He had one of the best guillotine in the game.
Like Alistair in his prime, when he went over and he fought Brett Cooper over and was it
Bert Cooper?
No.
Who do you fucking fight in strike force?
Like Brett Rogers.
Brett Rogers.
That's right.
Sorry.
I'm thinking of the heavyweight boxer, Bert Cooper.
Bert Cooper.
He had some crazy wars with, with a vendor, a vendor Holyfield.
I think a vendor's down in South Florida too now.
I don't remember Cooper.
He was a really, he was a tank.
He was a tank.
He was a super jack guy.
But Brett Rogers, when he fought Alistair, Alistair, like immediately hit him with a low kick
and you can tell he was like, what is this?
Yeah.
Like it was a different kind of low kick because you're dealing with the treat trunks of Alistair
with perfect technique and that guy was as good a kick boxer as has ever entered into
MMA.
And when he was saucy, he was a problem.
Yeah.
He was a real fucking problem.
Speaking of kickboxers from that era coming to MMA, dude, didn't go cons hockey come over?
Oh, yeah.
I thought he was going to do, you know, so much better, but he was older.
He was older and he was at a time where it's like, you know, he had that so many fights
on K1, you know, he had so many wars.
And he fought Khalil when, you know, Khalil's fast, fuck.
And I mean, good kickbox.
Real good kickbox.
Thai style.
Khalil cracked him in the first round and knocked him out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which was a big fight for Khalil because, you know, Gokham was the Turkish Tyson was coming
over here.
You know, it was one of those guys like Merkel Krokov was like an elite kick boxer who
was entering into MMA and everybody always gets excited about that.
Obviously, Pereira is the best example of that.
Yeah.
But he was a guy I knew.
I told everybody I was like, that guy's going to be a nightmare for everybody because there's
something about him, man.
I don't know what the hell is going on with his bone structure, his DNA and his intelligence.
Like he figured shit out that other people didn't like the way he threw that low kick, like
the way he throws that calf kick with zero towel, no turning of the hips.
Like he fucks up guys, calves better than anybody on the planet.
We had like a huge rush of the calf kick.
I saw it for like a year and a half, two years.
Everybody was doing it.
Now it's kind of fading away.
I've noticed that.
It is, but not with him.
It's not with the elite guys.
Guys that are really good at it.
It does so much damage, man.
So quickly.
It's crazy.
And it's so much, it's less commitment.
So you're not giving, you don't have to turn your hips over as much.
So wrestlers aren't grabbing singles as easy.
Why, I remember you're fighting with Jim Miller.
It's just, oh, dude, tore me up.
Yeah.
That was one of the first examples of calf kicks being really fucking dangerous.
And I've never felt it before.
I'm a South Pole.
So they land good calf kicks.
You'd have to fight another South Pole, right?
And that doesn't happen too often, especially with one who's throwing those.
So I didn't know what kind of black magic he was doing, bro.
I was like, I got a flat tire.
What is going on?
What is this?
I know.
Isn't it crazy that it took that long for people to figure that out?
Ben Henderson was a guy doing it early.
But it wasn't that effective for some reason.
Yeah, he was doing it, but it wasn't having the devastating damage.
I'm trying to think of who's the first guy to really,
Edson Barboso would do it every now and then.
Mm-hmm.
Trying to think of somebody who really brought it over.
But it's made its way in the kickboxing now.
It's because they were saying like the Muay Thai guys are not susceptible to calf kicks.
And everybody was saying that.
I was like, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
They are light on their front foot.
So that front foot is, you know, but there's times where they have to plant.
Like when they're throwing a right kick.
There's a guy named Yuki Yosa.
Yuki Yosa who fights for one.
He's a kielkishen guy.
And he's fucking everybody up with calf kicks.
Yeah.
He fights like high guard tight inside.
And again, no pivot of the hips.
He's essentially throwing his calf kick almost like he's kicking a soccer ball straight
up the middle.
That's the way I like to do it as well.
Just clip the top of the calf.
There's no commitment.
You don't have to pivot your hips or plant to turn.
You can just snap it out like a jab.
Yeah.
Well, a great example of the changing of technique was you in that corner fight.
Yeah, calf.
Hold on over.
And it was also South Pa versus South Pa.
Exactly.
Same thing.
You just destroyed that calf.
And you can tell he didn't know what to do.
Because as good as he was and as many fights as he had, two division world champion, he
hadn't been calf kick.
Right.
Which is a crazy transition.
When you see like the history of the sport, that is one of the clear differentiation.
That's another word that's fake.
That's the clear line in the sand where the techniques changed.
Yeah.
And it's one of those things like before it happened to me, I saw it and I was like,
ah, it might be uncomfortable, but until it happens, then you have a different respect
for it.
So Connor probably learned a lot that fight, man.
Oh, this is for real.
The calf kicks are for real.
What's fuck that it's just one shot?
That's what's crazy about it.
Because a thigh kick, like you can get a hard thigh kick and your leg goes dead for a couple
seconds, but it comes back.
Yeah.
Caves don't really come back that quick.
They explained it to me at the hospital after the gemila thing.
Apparently your calf doesn't have the chambers for the fluids of drain.
So that's why it gets compartment, oh, compartment, that's why it's so painful,
because it can't like go out through you.
This one can't go out through your whole leg.
So it sits in one pocket and it fills up and it's just uncomfortable.
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Do you ever see what happened to Austin Hubbard?
Dude, that's what they wanted to do.
So the gemelafight, they wanted to cut me at the, it's like no way, no way, filet you
to release the pressure.
Well, another guy, you ride a favor when he fought Jose Aldo, his life blew up like
a balloon.
Yeah.
Apparently, if it gets that bad compartment syndrome and the swelling is bad enough for
long enough, you can lose function of your ankle and foot.
Yeah.
Which is crazy, right?
Right.
Variah was one of the first guys to implement going into, what, why can't I think about the
fucking chamber, oxygen chamber, hyperbaric, hyperbaric, what's wrong with me today?
I'm making up fake words, can't come up with things that I know.
But he was using the hyperbaric like exclusively to recover from that and documenting it.
And I'm here.
That's interesting.
A lot of good brain benefits for hyperbaric.
Oh, yeah.
I don't have one.
But this never been like a routine thing.
Well, you have to have access to it.
And also the tense, the zip up tense at home.
Not a strong.
Yeah.
You need a solid, you need like one of those propane tank ones, those big, thick, old ones.
The glass, like it's really getting high pressure, yeah, yeah.
And then, you know, you got to be careful in those things.
You can't, no sparks.
Yeah, dude, I saw a story that a kid was in one and you saw that.
Yeah.
That's a couple of years, horrible.
Yeah.
Yeah, but hyperbaric is awesome for recovery. It's also it lengthens. There's a protocol that developed
one of the universities in Israel developed it where you do 60 sessions over 90 days and it
lengthens your telomeres that's commensurate with I think it's like a 20 year difference in
your biological age. Wow. It's nuts. It's super effective. Like when you get a lot of oxygen
into your system like that, it just helps everything recover. For sure. Like if you have an
or ring or a whoop strap and you go into one of those things, it shows you. Yeah. It's like,
oh, you have an amazing recovery day. Yeah, man, the metrics we can track now with all the
wearable devices is pretty awesome, dude. Well, it gets you to understand, like I think you can
get a little addicted to those things. For sure. I so when I was competing, I stopped using them
because every day wasn't ready. Need to rest. Read, read, read, read, every day. So when I retire,
I got back to it. Now I'm using them. But like when you're training for a fight, you can't.
Isn't that interesting? Not taking two days off. I need a train and the fights coming up. Like
if I'm in the red zone, I still need a train. I know. Isn't that interesting? Like there's
wearable device would tell you you're not supposed to train, but yet you know in order to reach
MMA peak physical condition, you have to push when you're not ready. So your body's forced to
recover quicker. I know this guy's training. That's why I got rid of it during camp. I don't use it.
We didn't use it. But it's weird because like, what if you listen to it? Like some people say,
like Terrence Crawford was talking about like, there's times where he wanted to push where his
coaches told him not to. And then he realized they were right. Yeah, maturing through fighting man,
pulling back got easier as I got older. When I was a younger fighter, I didn't want to take any
time off. I needed to be as many reps as much time on the mats as possible. But as I got to like
mid 30s, 36, I was like, you know, this is, I got to take days off. Complete days, complete days,
not just an easy day or a technique day. I just need to be out of the gym. Just relax. Yeah,
reset my mind to where I want to be there. Just hard for fighters because you operate on momentum
of the conditioning and the training and the discipline. It's like, yeah, you're in there. And
then to have a day where you're not, you feel like you're slipping backwards. Right. And you show up
to fight week with that momentum. Like I did everything I could. A busman's every day. Like you just
gives you so much energy and so much confidence going into fight week. You've turned over every
stone. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the worst thing though is seeing a fight or fight flat because you know
they're over trained. Yeah. And the one thing that I always point to is when Tim Kennedy fought
Calvin Gaslam. And he had gone through two solid camps in a row. So he went through one camp
peaked, got ready for the fight. And then the fight got canceled. And then went right back into
camp for it to train for Gaslam and didn't give himself the chance to recover. And you know,
it's too tough. Yeah. Too tough, too disciplined. And his body broke down. You're redlining that
engine over and over and over. I mean, we just saw it in Mirab. I think, you know, not that
a little taken into anything away from Yon. But you know, you stay that busy. Those kind of fights,
those training camps. I mean, it's hard to do. That's what makes things like John Jones could be
so impressive to me, man. To get on top and stay on top that long, you know. Yeah. I know it's
nuts. There's so few guys have been able to do that, especially in MMA, too many variables,
too many ways to slip on a banana peel, get caught in something, you know. And I kind of love
that could be went out on top and never came back with respect. That's awesome. And they offered
him a lot of fucking money to come back. He's like, nope. Yeah. Nope. Good for him, man. Yeah.
Good for him. Yeah. That's the way to do it. And then you go out all your faculties. Everything's
fine. Undefeated. Go down a legend. Right. Yeah. Like, I think Floyd should have did it,
you know, like that. Now he's fucking fucking fighting Mike Tyson. Come on, man. I know. There
was some rumors around that Floyd was going to have a rematch with Connor, which is crazy.
But I think Connor would probably do it, especially for any drug testing involved. I wonder if he's
going to come back it for sure. Yeah. But man, to heal from an injury like he had, you probably
need a bunch of stuff to, I don't know the ins and outs of that, but you probably need some help
to heal. He definitely needed some help to heal. The problem is once you get used to that help
and you enjoy it. Yeah. I'm getting used to the help. I know. That's what I thought about Cowboy.
When he got jacked and then he was like, he's going to, he's slimmed back down again. He
said he was going to fight again. But I think he might have abandoned that. I got hooked up with
Brigham and Ways to Well, they did all my blood. When I retired and got me, I turned down no
testosterone for me. So I'm not on any testosterone. I just don't want to mess up my natural
production because mine wasn't high, but it wasn't low. I'm just scared to mess with it, you know.
Yeah. You don't need it. And it's peptide. I'm 37 can do a lot for you. Yeah. I'm on a bunch
of peptides. Yeah. Peptides are the way to go. And I feel great. Honestly, I wish I could have
been on this shit when I was fighting, man. I know. You know, especially like the growth hormone
releasing stuff like like Tessa Moral and exactly like I could have pushed hard every day, man.
As I got older, it got harder, man. I know. And all it does is help your body recover.
It's not like it gives you some sort of a performance enhancing boost. I know it definitely helps
with like fat mobilization and stuff like that. But just being able to push hard every day is
huge and fighting. But just BPC 157, which offers no performance enhancing, but would help you
heal soft tissue injuries because you're getting injured. You're just getting small injuries
every day training. Every time you get leg kicked, every time you get punched in the stomach,
arm bar, shoulder lifting, everything, everything. Your joints are always messed up. Always, always.
And if you wanted fighters to perform better, something that would allow them to heal better is
only good. And it's not it's not going to make you run faster. It's not going to make you jump
higher. It's not going to make you an uberine. We're not talking about that. And I'm not even
sure if that's banned. I haven't checked it. It is BPC 157's band. Yeah. That's unfortunate.
Yeah. Creatine protein powders. That's the same stuff. You just recover better.
Well, I don't understand what creatine's not banned. Thank God. But creatine in the 1990s
were thought of the same way steroids. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I remember.
People thought like creatine's cheating. Oh my god. You're taking creatine. They literally
put it in the same category as start. And then they realized, oh, it's actually a part of food.
Great for your brain. It's actually good for you. Great for everything. Yeah.
I just talked my wife into starting creatine.
Women need it more than men. I was reading. Right. You know,
that's the little wife's just. Yeah. Yeah. I think the key is to like make sure you're hydrated
too. And to make sure you're not taking too much of it and make sure you get your blood checked.
And so you're not putting a lot of pressure on your kidneys. Yeah. But like dehydration and kidneys.
That like that is one of the big things that happens to a lot of fighters that cut a lot of weight.
They start getting kidney stones. I mean, Jose Aldo dealt with that DC famously got pulled out of
the Olympics. Oh yeah. Because yeah, it was having kidney failure. Yeah. Yeah. Your kidneys,
man, they don't like you being drained out like that. I've had a few way cuts where I felt pain in
my back. And I think that's kidneys 100%. Yeah. Kidney shots didn't happen often, but I've definitely
had it tightness. It feels kind of like cramping in a weird place you never had before in your back.
That's spooky. You're drying out your organs. And then fighting for your life. Crazy.
24 hours. It was nice though. When I started making it to the top of the cards,
co-main event, main event because then you have like 30 something hours to rehydrate. If you're
fighting early prelims in Vegas. Right. Two or three in the afternoon. Right. You know, it's
right not too long, especially back in the day when weigh-ins were at five or six p.m. There
wasn't a morning in ceremonial. Right. The real weigh-ins were at five and you were going to fight
it to the next day. Yeah, those were nuts. That was crazy. Yeah, I was crazy when guys would like
shuffle to the scale for the real weigh-in. You'd see them all like like a skeleton. And you're
facing off of the opponent trying to be tough like both dying. Well, I always remember Jose Aldo
versus Connor. Connor looked like he's one of the walking dead. Yeah. He looked like a zombie.
It was so skinny. His face bones. Yeah. See if you find that. And he was also crazy. Like
like like flexing. He's always crazy. He's always crazy. He hyped up with no like no body fat,
no water, just completely dehydrated. Look at that. Look at that. The eyes, eye,
sunken in. That is nuts. That guy weighed 145 and he probably weighed 170 or at least 165 when
he got into the actual octagon that day. If he does come back, I wonder what he's going to come
back at. Lightweight or welter? Well, the real key is if. I mean, he's had a lot of opportunities.
And I don't know. I thought the channel fight was a layup for him. That's the fight. A great
matchup for him. Great fight. Technically, it's a great fight stylistically. It's a great fight
age wise. Chandler's got to be what? 39 now. He's up there. 38. 39. Yeah. I mean, and then there's
the hype of the ultimate fighter. True. But it's just a layup for Connor. Chandler's hitable,
covers distance, not that technically, you know, huge movements. Right. You jump in. You get carried
out. Connor's a sniper man. I just think that's a great matchup for him. It's also a great matchup
for Chandler because he gets tired and he gets that, you know, because he sat out for two years
waiting. No Connor. He's also like, remember him with Olivera, even in the fucking third round. That
dude is carrying Olivera up and throwing him through the air and body slamming him while he's
on his back. Yeah. Like the dudes has, he has incredible endurance and incredible discipline.
He should always fit. Yeah. And that's been Connor's Achilles heels that Connor, he's so explosive
and so fast that if you're sprinting in that first round, guaranteed you're not going to have
that same kind of energy in the fifth round. Yeah. But some guys are just designed like that.
You know, you saw Taren Woodley's a guy who has huge explosion, but they don't necessarily
keep that for 25 minutes. But on the opposite side of that, you got to got like Nadeez who
keep that same pace from round one to five. Round 30. Yeah. That dude could. Or a heck of a long
board. Right. Out of a cannon, you know, and then slow down. Mm-hmm. Just the way muscles and fibers
are put, you know, connected. I don't know what that's to a human. Well, the only guys that figured
out how to fight with all that bulk and just is like Yoel Romero. He fought very smart.
It was just like calm and still fighting. Still fighting. Dude, still fighting.
Yeah. 50 years old. Jacked. More Jack than ever. Yeah. 48 years old. 49 years old with abs,
looking like a fucking super athlete. I think he's doing bare knuckle, maybe. Yeah. He did
bare knuckle. He did dirty boxing. There's a fight where he had an dirty boxing where he's
touching the dude up. And then out of nowhere, he just leaps up into the air. He does like a vertical.
He is like a five foot vertical. Lands on his feet and just starts putting on a dude like,
I'm tired of this. Let me show you what I could really do. I've had fun. No play with the food.
I've had fun. He's a crazy. He's been on the mats a bunch at American top team as well. And
just a freak athlete, man. Freak. He's the freak of all freak. Just a freak athlete. Yeah. I mean,
he came out of that Cuban. They build them different over there. Yeah, they build them with
science. Yeah. Yeah. But he also figured out how to pace himself. You know, he figured out how to
like explode out of nowhere, but not explode the entire time. Like he had this casual almost,
he would low you into a false center security and then just pounce on you. Right. Which is why he
hit with wide men with. Yeah. That was a perfect example. Perfect example. Because you get used
to this kind of pace and then you get into the rhythm and then you just break up. But also,
he didn't fight like obviously he's a wrestler. He didn't wrestle too, too hard and really
gassed himself out. He fought smart to do what he's good at. Explore. He rarely used his wrestling
in MMA, which is so crazy. Yeah. It's really crazy if you think about how good of a wrestler he was.
Right. Because he was one of the best wrestlers to ever compete in MMA. And that dude was elite
as a wrestler. And in MMA, he's just starching people. Yeah. When Luke Rockhold starched Luke,
like that was crazy. Luke's another guy still fighting. I think I think he might be done now.
You know, when he got knocked out by Darren Till in the boxing, I think that might be it. And
Darren Till has got a resurgence, man. As a boxer, he looks fucking fantastic. I saw the highlights
of that, but I haven't seen a whole lot. Bro, he looks real good. He looks, but he's always been
a good striker. Very good striker. And his Achilles heel has been his knees. You know, he's had
some serious knee problems and it really impeded him from being able to train hard. He wasn't the best
grappler in the world. And so that was always his problem. But as a striker, I mean, I was like
very, very good. And you're seeing him now in boxing, like he's making a real run. I think it's
very interesting because if you watch him box Rockhold and you realize like Rockholds are really
good striker, but against Darren Till, he would have had no business in there. That's something I
would like to do, man, box still. I always wanted to have a couple before I, you know, but I'm still
under contract, even though I'm retired, I still have a contract with the UFC. Do you think the
UFC will let you out or they have Zufa boxing? Yeah. So they trust me. I already pitched it to him.
Did you? Me and Nate Diaz Zufa boxing. Let's go. Let's go. 170, whatever.
168. Super middleweight. Let's do it. They don't want any crossover. Why? They I think Zufa wants
to be taken to serious hate money. They must hate money. They hate money. Why do they hate money?
I don't know. They want to be taken by the boxing world series. And I think if you open that door
of a MMA guy fighting under Zufa boxing, every guy on the roster, every girl on the roster is going
to want to do the same. It just becomes a mess. I think I don't know about that. Yeah. I don't
think it's a mess. I think there are some really fun MMA boxing matches you can make. Yes.
Fuck yes. Especially when guys get older and you know, you don't want to go through the
training camp with wrestling and leg kicks and all that shit. That's the thing. Like thinking
about a boxing training camp, dude, no grappling, no wrestling. Just run condition and box.
It would be smooth. Yeah. Funny. I'm on the beach. It's tough as boxing is like for you. Like,
oh, it's going to be so nice. I only have the box. That's great. Yeah. Honestly, men and training
camp. Those are my favorite days. Striking sparring is my favorite days. Like the wrestling class
is two hour Mako on Monday. It's like brutal, bro. Well, it'd be great for you because you've
always had great hands. Like for you, that's a perfect. Well, I started boxing before it makes
martial arts. That would be a perfect way for you to get some other fights in. I don't understand
Zufa. Yeah. I would just love to lace them up and box professionally once. I know what they
want to like redo boxing. And I know they want to like, and I think there's probably some real merit
there. Obviously, what the Saudis have done with Riyadh season has been amazing, you know,
making matchups that no one can make. I'm a big counterbend fan too, man. I'm excited to see him fight
in Zufa. And the guy's fighting is from New Orleans. Like, I know the guy. Like, you know, it's fun.
It is exciting. And it will definitely, I think they will elevate boxing. And Dana is throwing all
of his cards into that. So I'm sure it's going to work. Yeah. I'm glad we're seeing more boxing,
Zufa boxing and less power slap on my feet whenever I go to online stuff, you know. Yeah, I'm not a
big fan. I've never been the one, but man, it's just not my, not my jam. Yeah. When we, when I fought
my retirement in New Orleans, Mike Brown went to the power slap they had there. And he said it was
awesome in person. Oh, sure. It's awesome to watch someone get slapped, but like, I'm not interested.
I'll watch it on my fucking phone every now and then. I'll see. I mean, highlights are good
enough. You see the knockouts and the crazy stuff, but it's great TikTok content. For sure.
You know, it was someone gets slapped and they go forward and their head hits the desk and they
fall backwards, but it's like, it's a concussion. You watching and you can't, there's no defense.
There's no, like, you can't clinch or you get, it's penalty if you do that. That's crazy.
That's all making sense to me. I don't, I don't get it. But I think they've missed out on the
opportunity to have a Muay Thai league. That's what I think. I just America just doesn't buy into it
that big. I don't think that's true. No. No. No. I just think that one is doing it on Amazon.
Yeah. You know, but it's like we're watching Amazon. That's the problem. Yeah. You have a show on
Amazon. Like I know guys who've released comedy specials on Amazon. Like good luck finding it.
Nobody cares. That's just the reality of this platform. I mean, look, Amazon is a phenomenal
platform for buying stuff. I love it for buying things. I use it all the time. Every week.
It's great for buying books, audio books, great for buying products. But for watching content,
it's kind of a mess. They had a couple big shows like the Marvelous Mrs. Maisel and the Terminal
List. Those are great shows and those brought a lot of people over there. But I mean, you know how
big the Terminal List would have been if it was on Netflix as big as it was on Amazon.
More people watch Netflix for sure than we're ever going to watch anything on. That's why what
Jake's doing with the Netflix and bringing boxing in the mate there. Like it's big man. It's big.
So many people are going to be watching this. 100%. But I think that if one was somewhere else,
I think it would have been there you go. On the way here today. What? Yeah, they got
an ounce this morning. An MMA fight. That's what that's the third fight on that card now. That's
the Rousey card. Wow. Interesting. That's very interesting. That's very interesting. That's a good
fight. Dude, you said a lot of people don't go to Amazon to watch TV. I just went down a rabbit hole
for weeks because I have a newborn at home. So I did the night shift and I ran out of shit to watch
on Netflix. And when you run out of shit to watch on Netflix, you stay up till 4 a.m. every night
with a baby boy is like hours of documentaries, hours of stuff. I switched over to Amazon.
And it was like a whole new world, man. Well, there's a lot on there. It's just they don't
have the same viewers. Like our podcast is on Amazon. The numbers that we get from Amazon
compared to everywhere else are so small. Yeah. It's just the reality of the way they've
sort of marketed it. And Amazon Prime Video just doesn't have the audience that everything else does.
Right. And it's such a big platform. You think it would be crossover from
I think it's a mistake on their part because the product side is so big. And like Amazon
for buying stuff is so big that it's almost like an afterthought. And they have some money in it.
But not the same sort of focus. Also, the interface when I've gone to it is a little weird.
It's hard to find things. It's not as simple like the interface on Netflix is like the algorithms
great. It's really good at recommending new things. It knows what you like. It shows you things.
It's easy to find things. For sure. Amazon's like a little tricky. You go there and you're like what?
But see, the one FC thing faces the same problem that the PFL has. Like look, PFL is on ESPN Plus.
So you'd imagine PFL would get the same sort of audience that the UFC got. But it doesn't.
No, of course not. Because the UFC brand is like NFL like the machine. It's just. Yeah,
they own that space. But the fights on one FC are fucking amazing. Like especially the moi tie
fights with the small gloves. Oh my God, man. And I was trying to pitch this to Dana.
So I started sending Dana. He goes send me some. So I started sending him all these like high
level moi tie fights and high level kickboxing fights. And they're fucking phenomenal. Look,
he didn't like the Charles Olivera. This. Excuse me. This Max Holloway Charles Olivera fight.
He didn't like it. Like the BMF fight. The fight wasn't that good. I was like, I thought it was a great
fight. It was impressive. If you were a fan of technique and a fan of how hard it is to do that
to somebody like Max, like super impressive. And I was a fan of Max's defense. I mean, Olivera
was on his back in the first round. A lot of people would finish the first minute and a half.
Yes. You know, dry. I right. I got finished there. Yeah. I mean, I think Olivera is one of the
greatest submission artists have ever competed in the sport. Yeah. Not the best numbers. I mean,
numbers prove it. Yeah. And against elite guys like you and like Justin and like he's fun.
And then Gamerot. Dude Gamerot is I trained with him for years. He's a wrestler, but his grappling
is incredible. He got tied up in knots with Olivera. Yeah. Olivera is a nightmare. I knew it could
happen, but I didn't think it would be that I was stunned too. I was like, God, he's good. He's
so good on the ground. So like props to Max for surviving. But if dated didn't like it. So I
started sending him. For the, I mean, when you have the title of the BMF, like you want to see
some violence. I understand, but it's still just a fight. You can't fight outside of your
conscience. Just because of BMF belts on the line, you can't go out swinging for the fences. But
I get it. I get what you're saying. Yeah. But I mean, on the feet, I think Olivera was winning
on the feet. Do he hurt Max in the first? I think he heard him in the fifth. Well, he definitely
heard him in the fifth when they did the point down the ground. Yeah. And then he cracked him and
rocked him. Olivera is fucking cool. He is, man. He is. He's so good. He's just known. We put
the label on the grapple because he's finished so many guys and so many bonuses, but he can strike,
man. He's good everywhere. Like with a Chandler fight, he almost gets finished in the first round,
comes back and hits about a clean left hook in the second. Yeah. He's fucking good, man. Yeah,
knocked him out. Even when I fought him, like he did a good job of picking where the fight happened.
He wouldn't fight me in boxing range. It was either all the way in clinch or out where he was
teaping my body, he's staying long. Kicking range or clinching range is kind of where he fought me.
The times I did have success was in the boxing range, but he didn't let that happen.
Well, just just shows you how fucking good Ilya de Poria is.
Fuck. God damn it. Dude, I love Justin. I love I'm a fan. I don't like this matchup for him.
Well, you know what? I mean, Justin knows what he's getting into and it's hard to count that dude
out. He's such an animal. Yeah, he can land the shot. And it's in the White House. Who knows?
Who knows what's going to happen, but that dude has the touch of death. Yeah, he has the
touch of death. And he's not a big guy. I've never seen him in person, but I was talking to
somebody recently and they said, nice. Five, seven, you know, he's small, man. He's not big.
There's a photo of me standing next to him when we did the podcast for standing next to him.
He's much smaller than me. And bro, he puts people into the shadow realm. Yeah. It's just
technique and confidence. His confidence is crazy. He had a he had a victory party for the
olive air fight the night before drinking wine. I saw. I don't think he was drinking wine.
No, I think he was drinking water the night before, but he has drank wine in weigh-ins when he's
getting ready to weigh in or whether he's the weight cut. He only did that for two camps. He told
me though. He said this too much. Just like fucking hung over the next day. Like, what am I doing?
Right. Then you're about to get your brain beat up. You're dehydrating. You're drinking. Come on.
Well, I think he's dehydrating himself and he said the wine actually helps you get dehydrated.
Yeah. Alcohol definitely does. Yeah, which is, but it's nobody does that. Nobody drinks wine for
the weigh-ins. That's crazy. No, bro. And like, I'm so I'm not drinking anything. I'm so
depleted by that time. I know. And he's getting hammered. Lucky. And winning world championships.
Well, it was only two fights he did that for. So it became like something where people are pretending
he does it every way in. He's got all these young fighters out there in the world drinking on
the other day. I'm going to be like the champ, man. Yeah. But he's crazy talented. For sure.
For sure. For sure. Whatever it is, he has it. He's got it in his mind. He's got it in his
technique. His grappling. I watched a video of him grappling with Marab and he was all over Marab.
And that's crazy. That's what they say. His grappling is just as good if not better than his standup.
That's where he started. I've never seen him grapple though. Well, he finished
Bryce Mitchell on the ground. And he's finished a few people on the ground. He's like he does
clearly have phenomenal submission ability. What do you show him here? What is this him? He says
is he's done it for a long time. Yeah, you can see his face is already sucked in a little bit. He
said that when he was on the podcast, though, that he only did it twice. Three years ago. That's
hilarious. He's all tipsy and drunk. Look, I tell this to young fight. There's no right. I mean,
obviously don't smoke crack before a fight. There's no right or wrong way. Everybody's different.
Right. Whatever makes you feel comfortable to perform and compete like everybody's different.
If there was a cookie cutter, perfect way to work, everybody would do it. Well, your car was
brought to us. Yeah, exactly. Smoking cigarettes like the day of the fight. He said,
they're smoking marbles. Darts. Darts. Who was the monster? Fucking everybody up. Back in the day.
Oh, yeah. My orga. My orga. My orga. Yes. Yes. He was sick cigarettes. Drinking and fucking
Carlos drinking whiskey. I know. He's like going out there in a party and always going to
fuck people up. Respect. Yeah. I mean, he's going to fight. Is he fighting Jack Delamadolena?
Is that the fight? I'm not believe that's the fight in Perth. That is a very good fight. Yeah.
A tough one for Jack to come back to, man. I was in, I was in a MSG when, when Islam took the
belt from a dude, complete domination. Well, that's another guy. Complete domination.
And Ilya was talking about fighting him too. You know, the size difference would be so big.
So big. Islam is huge. He's huge. He's too big for 55. And then you see him at 170. How did
you ever make 55? Right. He's because he's so dominant at 170. Yeah. Hunter from the UFC,
I was in his office not too long ago. And I, they keep record of all the weights fight night.
They don't release them all, but they keep it. And we were talking about the Islam fight
when I fought Islam. And he was telling me his weight. I was like, that's it anyway.
192 or something, I think the day of the fight. I think so. Yeah. That's something more.
191, 191 something around there. That's great. I was 176. That's great. But it looks like it in the
cage. Like whenever I look across and under those spotlights and they had veins and his shoulders
and shit. I'm like, fuck, this guy's huge. The ones where I'm like, how? Gregory Rodriguez is the one
where I'm like, how? Yeah. How? How? How are you 185? How? You're 63. You're built like a Greek
God. How? How do you ever weigh 185? How is that even possible? Whenever I interview him, I'm like,
how? Right. Because I'm standing next to you. And I'm like, that doesn't make any sense.
Like, you're not 185 pound guy. You're huge. Like in his prime when Luke Rocco was a champion,
he's huge, huge, huge, huge. Yo, over a mile. Yeah. Yo, over a mile is the best example.
Like, how? How are you 185? Built like an anvil, dude. Solid all the way through.
When he came in to do the podcast and Joey Diaz translated for him, he was like 230. Yeah.
Just like his neck starts at the top of his head. Just a tank and shredded always. No, no jiggle.
Dude, shredded always. Vains in his abs like crazy. Yeah. He was, he was talking about the Cuban
program. I'll never forget. It was like talking about like how they have the, the lower level
guys only eat twice a day. But the, the top level guys eat three times a day. And so everybody
is competing literally for food. Crazy. You say that in Angola, prison in Louisiana,
there's a boxing league. If you're on the boxing league and get accepted into it, you get more
meals and stuff. So the same thing, these, these prisoners are trying to invest to stay on this
boxing league. You get more meals, more time, more free time. Wow. They actually fight other
prisons, man. Wow. I was thinking this would be a great documentary to come out with.
That would be a great document. And it's CCTV to the other prisons. So other prisons can watch
in their cells. Wow. They bust them to Angola, other prisons in Louisiana. They box.
They put out a schedule every year. If you ever want to go to one, it's invite only, but I,
I'd rather watch at home. It's, bro, it feels illegal, dude. It feels illegal.
Well, it might not be legal in other states. Yeah, it might not be legal in Louisiana.
I might be getting in trouble saying this. Does anybody any good? Hell yeah.
Yeah. I think Bernard Hottens came out of jail. I mean, the guy obviously Tyson Beatham,
but the black rhino was an Angola boxing prisoner who got out or pardoned to fight Mike Tyson.
Really? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's crazy. I did not know that. So did they have a program
where they have coaches and they have to. Do they have equipment and everything? Yeah. Wow.
And different according to the schedule, they'll bust them to the other prisons to fight.
And it's played through all the prisons in Louisiana. Man, you find a highly skilled guy who's in
that program. And they let them go, bro. The ruffs, they're legitimate ruffs, but they let the
fights go, man. What kind of nutrition are they getting? They're getting prison food? Yeah.
They get any better food. No, prison food, but they get more meals. They get to eat extra.
Still terrible food, right? Yeah. Yeah. Angola is a crazy, crazy prison man.
Grow all the food there, make all the clothes there. They grow their food there? Yeah.
Self-sustaining. Self-sustaining. I'm sure they ship a bunch of stuff in, but they do have crops.
And it's such a big operation that the guards and the staff live on the prison grounds. There's
a elementary school. Really? Yeah. The guards kids and stuff go to school on the grounds. It's
wild, man. Oh, that can't be good. It's wild. Every October, they have a, the rodeo there.
Oracle about that boxing association from 2011. So I was an interview with some people I think
that were a part of it. Well, you want to focus, you know, women weakened legs,
ain't no women in their dogs. Hell, no. That's crazy. Yeah, serious business, man.
I did not know that. That's nuts, man. Yeah, how come no one sent a document around this or
how? I know. Well, B-hop was a prison boxer in Philly, right? Yeah. Yeah, this would be a great
documentary, man. Interesting. Yeah, Bernard learned, I mean, learned like real discipline in prison
and also learned that he never wants to go back, which is as important.
And I think Angol is like maximum security. So you don't go there if you have less than like
25 years or so. So these guys are in there for a long time, just trying to find things to do.
Boxing, eating extra, getting more free time. Why wouldn't you do it? Also, it keeps you focused.
You have something to concentrate on other than the fact that you're in jail. Yeah. Yeah.
It was wild, bro. They set up a ring like in a cafeteria. I went there once to watch it. It was
insane. It felt like I was doing something wrong. It felt like I was doing something wrong.
Were the guys good? Fuck yeah. Some of them were good, man. Wow. Really good.
Wow. Fuck. That's interesting. They pardon that guy. Who's the title? They have belts.
The Black Rhino Clifford maybe? ATN. Yes. Yes. That's right. That's right. So he was in prison
boxing in Angola and he fought Tyson. Wow. No shit. Yeah. I mean, why not, man? At least it
gives him something to focus on. The idea is like, oh, you're going to make a more dangerous
felon. Bro, they're dangerous. Yeah. They're dangerous. They're in there for murder. What do you think?
What do you think? They're in there for armed robbery murder. Let them fight.
Right. Doing life. Right. Exactly. Also, we try to pretend that that's not going to
improve the quality of their life and improve them as a human being. Doing something difficult,
even if it's difficult and violent like fighting will make you a better human being.
For sure. Make you tougher, smarter, more disciplined, more focused. Also,
release all the aggression there so you don't have aggression in regular altercations nearly as
much. Yeah. That's where I'm at right now, like, leaving fighting in the rearviews. Like,
what do I do with my life now? Days, days, and all. Dude, I've been traveling so much
twice a week. Maybe, you know, if I'm home on Friday, I do open magic. It's a couple kickboxing
classes. If I can make it, but I've just been traveling so much, man. Why have you been traveling
so much? Sponsors, appearances, cornering buddies, like just saying yes to everything that I couldn't
before, you know? Right. I'm more busy now, I think, because before I would shut everything down,
like, I got to get ready for this fight. I have to focus on this. No, I can't do anything. Black
out these dates. Now it's like, you're really good on the desk, man. I enjoy, man. I really do enjoy.
You can tell. Yeah. So, I mean, I think that's one of the best things that the UFC does with
former fighters is they give him this opportunity to do stuff on the desk. I think that's huge.
I hope they keep bringing me. I just signed a contract for the year. When it was ESPN, I was kind of
doing like independence contractor stuff. They would ask me, I would say yes, but I'm on contract
with UFC for a year. So, hopefully they keep bringing me, man. I, all the people behind the scenes,
just being around the event that I've, you know, I've fought at for so long. It just makes me feel good.
Yeah. And I get nervous because it's live TV. You can't fuck up. You know, live TV is different.
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Well, I would like to see the allow more of you guys to take the spots doing fights in commentary.
Oh, like color. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, right now it's just dominant cruise,
Paul Felder, Michael Bisping and DC. That's essentially it. Yeah. I mean, those are
only former fighters from the UFC that are doing it. And I really think there's room for more
guys. Yeah. Dan Hardy was great. Yeah, for sure. He was awesome at it. Yeah, he was. I don't
know what the fuck happened with him and the UFC. They had some sort of a squabble and he left,
but he's fantastic over at PFL. He's still with them. Yeah. Yeah, he does that. He's really good,
man. He's. He breaks stuff down. He's very good. Yeah. Very good. And he said, great guy. I've
known him forever. He was a 10th planet. You just you guys. So I've known him since like,
fuck, I must have met him 20 years ago. Wow. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah. Before he was
fighting GSP before he's fighting any of those guys, I knew him. Yeah. He would come over from
England to train in America. He was such a knockout artist. We never really get to see him. Right.
Yeah. No, he was good at Jiu Jitsu too, man. I mean, he trained hard. And he's just a very smart
dude who knows a lot about the sport. Yeah. It seems like when he's breaking down stuff,
you can tell he's studied. He's also just like a very skillful commentator because he's very
intelligent and is the way he describes things. It's exciting. I mean, I think he's they, I don't know
what happened with them. And when I'm on the desk with those guys, I try my best to not
break things down too much like on the stats side. I try to make it seem like
a conversation sit on the couch watching fights with your boys where I talk about
experiences that I've had and stuff because they explained it to me like, that's what fans want to see.
If they want to look up stats, they'll go look it up. They don't want to hear you talk about
submission attempts and exact stats. They want to know your experience. Yeah. So like,
each rep, I'm think I'm getting better, you know, open it up and be in more myself. I'm trying to
do a good job. And I really, really enjoy it. I think stats are interesting sometimes,
but what's really more important than that is like a technical breakdown of abilities. Right.
Because stats, it's, you know, it's variable depending on who you're fighting. Like,
like you take Charles Olivera stats and then you say his fight with Islam Makachev and you say,
okay, where's the stats? Like, it's like, it's, it's really dependent upon skill sets,
who's your level of competition, who you're competing with. You know what I mean? That was a quick
submission. No. The stats are one submission to tilt, one submission. Bro, he's got a crushing
squeak. It's different. It's different. Yeah. Yeah, you strangle me. And the way he did it, I think
he more kind of filled in last minute to fight Islam and got caught with the same choke.
It's kind of like a, a dars choke, but he locks it on his forearm. He doesn't go to the bicep.
I know. And the squeeze is different. He's pulling to his chest. It's not like a angle squeeze.
It's different. So the defense is different. When I got my legs out and tried to walk around,
he hooked my leg, but like the squeeze is completely different, completely different.
You know, you belly down and kind of get some space to breathe. You can't the way he does it.
Craig Jones broke it down. It's like a front choke, almost like a,
like a squeeze to your chest. It's not an angle that you use for a normal dars choke.
I know. I was shocked the first time I saw him do it. I was like, maybe he just like couldn't
cinch up the bicep. Then I saw him do it a second time. I was like, no, this guy's trying to do it
that way. He grabs right here. Craig Jones pulled to his chest. Break down of it on YouTube.
We're explains why it's effective and what's so good about it. And when he gets the grip
locked in, like it's complete immediate blood shut down. You know, usually you fill it slowly,
fading away. It was like right away. Well, also that dude's got a back. Like that's the whole
starting through move beyond the darkness started coming in. Like as soon as he got the grip.
Really? Yeah. He's so fucking strong. There's like something about those daggustang guys,
man. Like the discipline those motherfuckers have. Yeah. You know, there's daggustang guys that are
making their way into Muay Thai now, too. This is dude, Asadula, Iman Ghazaliyah. I talk about him
all the time, but I can't talk about him enough. He's one of those one FC guys that is fighting
in Muay Thai from daggustang. And this fucking kid is 22 years old and he's knocking out like
multiple time world tie champions. I've never seen him grow. This dude is a freak.
I mean, he's a he's just putting people into the shadow realm every fight. Dude, it's so wild
to fight four ounce gloves in Muay Thai. I know. But I mean, you could throw elbows and stuff in
knees. So it's perfect. It's like four ounce gloves. I mean, look, you're throwing elbows,
knees, everything else in the clinch. It allows you to grapple better. It just makes it so much more
dangerous for the blocking. You know, you don't have the gloves covering all the space around your
ears. But this cat is special, man. He's special. And he's from daggustang. It's like, okay,
imagine this motherfucker gets into MMA. Everybody's fucked. If this guy can wrestle at all,
which you know he can if he's from fucking daggustang, well, they do a lot of kickboxing for
Sambo, right? Yeah. This dude's something though. He's something new. Oh my god. Because he's
22 years old. And he's like world Muay Thai champions. He's sleeping them all. Yeah. It's not,
man. What weight is that? 145. I think he's 145 or 35. 145. Probably tall, tall. 132. 132.
Is that what it says? This thing right here says on screen. Wait a minute. 132.7. Oh,
interesting. 510. Interesting. 60 kilogram. Yeah. 22 years old, man. Well, at that weight,
well, and then you think about one has some crazy thing. Look at this wind knockout, wind knockout,
wind knockout. He's a freak, man. And that one dude that made it to the unanimous decision is
just his kid from Morocco, who's just tough as shit. But god damn, he took a beating. They have
such a great product, man. I wonder how many like viewers and how the ratings are. I mean,
it's big in Asia, but they have financial struggles. I don't want to speak to it because I don't
know enough, but there's a lot of talks. I know they wanted to start doing shows in America.
They've done a few. Yeah. I know they did one in Colorado. They maybe have done multiple. I'm
not aware. But it's a great product. That's the thing. It's like I love watching their kickbox
and fights on YouTube. And that kid Yuki Yoza that I was telling you about that throws calf kicks.
He's fucking everybody up with calf kicks. And there's another guy from a lot of these
Kyokushin guys, especially in kickboxing. So like they have different rule sets over there and one.
You can fight kickboxing where they use big gloves. Or you can fight Moitai where they use
little gloves. And I think they've had Moitai fights where they have big gloves too. So in the
kickboxing, you're not allowed to clinch. Not allowed to throw elbows. But you can throw knees,
but you can't clinch and just continue to throw knees. And you can't sweep and you can't take
guys down. It's a little confusing. I think Moitai is the way to go. But the thing about
kickboxing in Japan is like they just wanted to let's what K1 was. They're like let's just
take out all the clinching and make this as exciting as possible. What's the best way to do that?
And the elbows elbows are very effective, obviously, and knock a lot of guys out, but also cut a lot
of people open and stop fights prematurely, which is why pride didn't allow elbows, which is
really crazy when you think about that. Yeah, what soccer kicks and stomps, but you were fighting
multiple times. True. Cuts, you know, if you get cut in the first fight, it could change everything.
I think that makes sense. I kind of, but I mean, soccer kicks, stomps and soccer kicks.
Yeah, it's hard to say because for great knees to a grounded guy. Yeah, just ground and
prown elbows are so effective. It's so important. I mean, it really like guys that think they're
comfortable and safe in the guard. You're not. You're not. When a guy can still bust you up with
elbows from a short distance, it's a very effective technique. Yeah, very damaging. Yeah,
very, very damaging technique. Well, there's a real problem with the cage and the problem is the
wall. Like the fence is an artificial structure that keeps you from being able to move.
And I've always said this that I think it should be an open mat. It should be a large mat.
And you should, you should not like a wrestling mat. Yeah, like a big wrestling man.
Like think about a basketball game. Like think about how much space is on a basketball court.
And you still get 16,000 people in there to watch a basketball game. Guys would be,
I would think running running around a lot of, no, maybe you get penalty penalty from moving too
much. Maybe you have a ride. Yeah, you have a red, yellow card or, well, you have a you have a
center that you're supposed to stay in. And then you have a red zone outside of it. And then you
have a black zone outside the red zone where you get points taken away. Yeah,
the enter into the red zone too many times. You get a warning for the first time,
another warning for the second time, third time, you get a point taken away. So you could use it
once or twice to evade. But then you got to go back into the area where you're supposed to fight.
I think that would be, that would be cool. How big of an area you're talking basketball court.
That's too big, man. That's too big. How about football? How about football, fucking field.
That's too big. That's too big. They're doing that with no rules fights. Yeah,
yeah, I watch a lot of no rules fights. They're the Russian, the Russian stuff. They're so scary
because guys just mount guys and gouge their eyes out. Yeah, they're mounting people and just
shoving their fingers and guys are screaming and tapping and, oh, I run across some pretty crazy
stuff on IG sometimes from those, but they're fighting in parking lots. They're fighting on phone
booths, cars upside down on the wall. They're fighting everywhere. I saw them on a cargo container
floating on the on top of water where you get knocked off and that's crazy. It's so ridiculous.
American Gladiade and you fall into the water and you just breathe water and then don't rescue
you in time. Just fight with those kid floaties. If you get knocked out, you just float to the top.
Instead of those boy-tie things. Yeah, you can't float in the water. Your corner's blown
them up. Yeah, but I think the cage, I'd like like, you know how like the UFC BJJ,
yes, that sloped surface, a perfect comedy combat. Karate combat, does that slope surface?
That's a good one. And that's a big space they fight in. Karate combat. Yeah, something like that,
I think would be good. It would be better. There's something about, but the problem is then you're
backing up and you hit that ramp and you fall down. What was the old karate? It was like, I don't
think it was Chuck Norris. Yeah, Chuck Norris is like something like that. Yeah, I think it was
World Combat League or something. I went to see that one. WCF or something like that. World
Combat Federation. Yeah. I think the first guy to do a slanted thing though was Frank Shamrock.
A lot of people don't realize that Frank Shamrock had an organization for a while and they fought
in like this sloped sort of thing like in Kumite. I think he might have been the first guy.
Frank was way ahead of his time. Way ahead of his time. And he's another guy that got erased
from, because he had a falling out with the UFC and he got kind of erased from the lineage
of like elite fighters from the past. Fighting older and strike force like still
bodied up. I know. He was a student of martial arts. Yes. Yes. But by the time he got the strike
force, his kind of best days were behind him like when Nick Diaz beat him up. Yeah. It was,
it wasn't the same guy. When he fought Phil Baroni, it wasn't the same guy. He had a lot of
knee problems and it's like he's just not. After a while. It's like he might have been like
forties and strike force. I don't know how old he was. Late thirties, forties. Late thirties for sure.
But when you go back to his fights in the UFC, I mean, he was a pioneer man. When he fought
Tito Ortiz, he was nowhere near Tito's size. And he just beat Tito with cardio, just cardio and
defense. And then eventually war is asked down to beat him up and change Tito's entire strategy
for fighting after that. He was one of the guys early with like super fit, super, you know,
really focused on his, his health and nutrition and supplementation and everything. Back then,
you didn't see a whole lot of that. But he was one of the guys for sure. Well, the lion's den,
you know, Ken Shamrock's his, the thing that they put guys through this gauntlet that they put
guys through in order to make the team to make the fight team was hell. It was just hell. They
wanted guys to break. And so extreme conditioning, extreme mental toughness like all that was
emphasized. Yeah. And so Frank was the best example of that, though, because he was, he was
elite everywhere. He was really taking guys down. He had great submissions. He had great striking.
And, you know, he fought some wild fights, man. He fought, uh, Ensign. I don't remember where
that was. Was that in K one? But he beat Ensign with knees. He fought in multiple organizations.
Obviously started out in pancreas. Yeah. But he had only been training for like a year or
something like that when he fought Boss Routin in pancreas. He was super fucking talented, man.
Why they let him wear boots, right? Or kind of like, yeah, you had some weird shin pad deal with,
well, you had wrestling shoes with shin pads and you open hand slaps, you know, yeah, it was always
poem. Uh-huh. Yeah. So what is this in? Does it say what it's in 2011? This says UFC. It's not
UFC. Oh, it's Valley, Tuto, Japan. Yeah, this is before 2011. Yeah. Okay. So this is Valley,
Tuto, Japan. So Valley, Tuto, Japan, I wonder if it's the same Valley, Tuto that Hixin fought in.
So Hixin was, you know, the champion of Valley, Tuto, Japan early on. Well, that was like the
in the documentary choke. You've seen that, right? Uh-huh. That's a long time ago. Yeah.
Documentary rules. Yeah, man. That documentary rules. So that was how Hixin became a legend.
Back in the real NHB, no. Yeah. Yeah. No rules. Right. Right. Well, the first UFC that I went to
was UFC 12 in Dothin, Alabama. And you could wear wrestling shoes. You could punch guys in the
nuts. Yeah. Hair pulling. Yeah. Grabbed their clothes. No way class. There was two way classes
back then. Um, like because V-Tour won the heavyweight tournament back then. I think they had a two
way classes back then. So they still recognize that there's some smaller guys and some big guys.
The smaller guys are real talented, but then I'm going to beat the big giant guys. So let's have
a weight class for them. Yeah. I remember written VHS tapes with my dad or the old UFC's,
dude. What got you in the spoiler? How old were you when you first started martial arts training
period? 17. 17. That's late. Yeah. If you think about it, right? Well, I mean, if you want to call
wrestling, I wrestled for two years when I was 10 and 11 for a private club. We did like traveling.
Texas a lot. Louisiana. Small club meets. But other than that, no combat sports, no martial art
experience. How'd you get into it? Boxing when I was 17. I wanted to box. Always wanted to box.
Started going to a boxing gym. Met some MMA guys there. Didn't know they had MMA where I was
from. Then went to the MMA gym and never went back to the boxing gym. So what year were we talking?
2006, maybe. Oh, okay. So this was right when the UFC first started. This is like, I remember when
Stefan and and Forrest did the big thing. This was like beginning around the time I was training
boxing and mixed martial arts. So that wave, like I just never stopped. Wow. Yeah. What was it?
The world combat.
Like Chris Hordecki was over there. Been around those over there. What was the team organization?
That was big at the time. Right. IFL. IFL. Yes. Everybody had teams and stuff. That was weird.
That was real big around that time. Yeah, I didn't know being. That's where Dan Miller, Jim's brother,
landed the grossest guillotine I've ever seen in my life. Have you ever seen this one? I don't think so.
Oh my God. It's the worst guillotine of all time. He gets this guy on a guillotine, traps his head in
his chest and bends his chest. So his head is connected to his own chest sideways. So like this,
his head went all the way down and touched his chest. I don't even know how he stayed alive. Yeah,
watch this. Watch this. Watch this guillotine. There it is. Check this out. No, watch this guillotine. Look
at that. Look at that. Bro, Jesus. Bro, how's that guy alive? He's not. Look at that. Look at that.
How is he alive? Have you ever seen that before? Ever? Like, that's crazy. Yeah, this is the
craziest guillotine I've ever seen in my life. That's so crazy. Look like his neck's broken, bro.
How's he alive? Yeah. Like, first of all, why did it take so long for the referee to stop? Who's
the referee? Steve Monsigatti. I don't know who it is, but you get to probably stop that a couple
of seconds earlier. But I mean, it's just hard to imagine that a neck can go in that direction.
Like, it's so, that doesn't show it. The other angle that you showed is really what showed it.
Yeah. The other angle where you see it from the side, where you see his head. Like, when he
cinches it up here, that is crazy. That you're not supposed to bend like that. You know,
your ears never supposed to touch your chest. No, I don't know how it does. I don't know. I mean,
it just seems like everything would break. It seems like you would never walk again. He's not,
that's not fighting anymore. No. Jim still rolling, man. Jim still fights. Still rolling. It's
crazy. Most fights in UFC history and still fine. No surgeries. No nothing. Yeah. Still durable.
Dick had beat up. Was his last fight Bobby Green? That was the last time I think I saw him fight.
I don't know if that was his last fight, but he definitely got beat up. That was a one. He's
definitely lost his step. I mean, he's four years old. Yeah, yeah. But man, dude still loves it.
Still loves it. Respect to him, dude. Yeah. I mean, he sent me a cookbook. He came out of
the cook, but he's a big cook and a hunter and stuff. You know, he sent me a cookbook and a spatula.
That's hilarious. Captain Redbeard or Jimmy Redbeard on the spatula. It's like engraved into it.
The fuck yeah. He's quite a character. Yeah, I like him. I like him, man. I like him a lot too.
He's a very fun dude. And also complete wits about him. Doesn't have any problems mentally.
You know, it seems like a hard worker. He's always on his farm doing stuff. Like you would never
think he was a fighter if you didn't know. I know, right? Yeah. Yeah. He's a fascinating character.
Well, the thing about this sport is that exceptional humans are exceptional at fighting.
Like to be an exceptional fighter, you have to be an exceptional person. There's really no way around it.
There's like, it's too hard to do. You have to be a very unique kind of human being
that can get through those camps that can perform under the big lights that can figure out how to
keep getting better and evolve for sure. And that type of stuff is like the last time I was on a show
while I was talking about, it's like a gift and a curse, man. It's like you have to be all in
at something. Those kind of people who are built like that, whether it's fighting or
drinking or whether it's good or bad, you're going all in. It's dangerous. The problem is like
we see with Connor when they don't have the fighting. Then they go all in with the other things.
Yeah, right. Fighting was always for me always pulled everything together. You know,
that's why like retiring is scary, man. This episode is brought to you by Life Lock.
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Go to armra.com slash rogan. Days are long. I have a lot of time. I don't have to get ready for a
fight. You're still a young man too. You still have a whole lot of life ahead of you. 37, man.
Yeah, so it makes you think like, what do I do now? What do I do with my future? What do I do?
What do you want to do? Dude, I kind of got like for a week or so, I would say depressed but I kind of
got into a funk. What the hell am I going to do with my life? Every day I would wake up for the
last 20 years. How can I be better fighter? What's new in fitness? How can I push myself? I want to be
the champion and then boom, you lay the gloves down and you wake up and you're a fucking civilian.
It feels crazy. It's like I'm relearning who I am. I always knew fighting was just something I did.
It wasn't who I was. But after 20 years of doing it, even though you know that and you think that,
like it fuck, I don't know who I am without fighting. How long did it take me to fight? I'm a
husband. I'm a lot of things. But like fighting was a cloud in my mind that never went away for 20 years.
Right. And now I wake up and it's gone. Like, what do I do? I'm still trying to find out, Joe. I
don't know. Did you still get nervous when you would go to events? You know that feeling that you
get like you when I competed competing? No, no, no, when you go to other events for other people.
Yeah, just feeling like you might have to compete. Dude, my hands are sweaty. Yeah.
Yeah. That's weird, right? For sure. I mean, obviously, it just happened to me last
a couple of weeks when Max fought Charles. I was nervous. I had armpits. My hands are sweating.
I'm like, dude, I hope those people don't see this right because you feel like you're still there.
I'm connected to both these guys for some reason. Well, you are forever. Yeah. That's the thing.
That's what's so interesting about watching like old fighters, even old boxes when they go to like
hall fame ceremonies and they see each other and hug and like those guys are connected in time
forever. Yeah. Max came up to the desk and I was like, we spent an hour of our lives fighting
each other, you know, as hard as we could. He didn't even know. He's like, no way, an hour.
Like, yeah, dude, we went to two decisions, two five round decisions and we fought. The first
fight was one or two rounds. So it's an hour of fight. Yeah. We spent an hour beating each other up.
That is crazy when you think about it. An hour is a long time. And now is a long time to fight
another man, especially bearing your soul in front of the world. It's not a regular hour.
Just hanging out at the beach. It's the biggest hour. Yeah. And it's an hour you're prepared for
for months each time. But because of that, like, like you were saying with the boxes, like we know
we have an unwritten thing we know about each other. Yeah. You know, something we never spoke
about, but we know each other better than a lot of people do. Yeah. You know when a person breaks
and who doesn't break. Max doesn't break. He doesn't break. I mean, you see it in that fight. I mean,
how does he how does he go through that whole round and not get submitted? Yeah.
Dry with all of air on his back and cut close a few times. Like first. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Like that Oshinyayoki where you go the angle, you can choke through the jaw. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Guys go to sleep. Neck crank it or choke you to sleep. Yeah. Well, even just a rear naked
across your face. I've seen guys go to sleep. Yeah. They just go to sleep. You try not to tap
and just wake up and you're like, how did he choke me out over my face? Because it's like
if you get enough torture and crank it'll, yeah, cut off the vein or whatever, you know, it'll
it'll it'll put you out. It's enough. It's which is nuts. And it's so much pain on the jaw too.
Oh, it's horrible. Choking, getting lack of oxygen to the brain is one thing. Like the jaw
binding up against the bones. Like, you know, that sharp pain you get when somebody's face cranking
you in your jaw. Hell. Yeah, it feels like it's going to dislocate. Yeah. Well, that was the thing
with Kabeab and Connor. We did that torque, that torque crank where he got his neck and he's
cinched it up with the forearm behind the neck and pulls back like this. Like that is hell.
And those guys squeeze is different. Those guys squeeze is different. What is something about
lifelong grapplers? There's like a density to them that's just different. The density, the strength
and just like the knowing of where to put the pressure and what angle to turn your hips to make
a big difference. You know, people outside don't even see it, but it's so, so crucial in the moment.
Yeah. When somebody's on your back and they just turn a little bit to the elbow, you know,
rather than just squeeze straight on small things like that or, you know, what when fights?
I'll tell you the fight that I'm really looking forward to. Really looking forward to because I don't
know what's going to happen. Is Homspot versus Strickland. I'm very interested in that fight. Strickland
is a fucking nightmare standing up for sure for sure. When he did a fluffy Hernandez, I was like,
holy shit man. The body shot the finish, but he made fluffy fight. You know, he fights at a slower
pace. He has his own pace in there and he kind of forces the other guy to fight his opponent has to
fight this pace with him. I think the best the best chance is to to blitz him do unorthodox things
because he wants to jab circle throw kick jab circle. He keeps a very slow pace. He's not sprinting
or trying to blast you out of there. He just chips chips chips away high guard. Good show. Yeah.
Very good show. His defense is extraordinary. He, you know, one of the things he was telling me is like,
I spar more than anybody and I get hit less than anybody. And that is true. Like if you think about
how much that guy spars, it's a giant part of training. Look at James Tony. He was hard. He was hard
to hit and all he did was spar. Yeah. You know, right. Perfect example. There's something taught in that
in those hundred percent. Yeah. Understanding of distance timing pattern recognition. You're
constantly in there moving around. Right. It's like, and then there's also the cardio that comes from
sparring. Yeah. It's different. Yeah. Like he, because his cardio is almost entirely based on sparring.
And man, I'm not the fucker doesn't get tired in there. Right. And the fluffy fight was like, I
thought fluffy was going to be a problem. I'm like, fluffy is really good, man. You think he
submitted a dolphin of the era. He's got all this fucking crazy cardio. He puts a pace on guys.
And Strickland made it look like he just did not belong in there. He's so heavy on that
front foot though. I can't believe guys aren't smashing that calf, man. I know. Well, he's hard to
hit, man. And he also knows how to do that, that, um, fucking the, the hacky sack thing. Or,
you know, like you're bending your knee upwards. You know what I mean? Check it. Yeah. Well, you
don't even check it. You just kind of like a relax your leg and lift it up. You know who,
showed me that is Alex Pereira. He's like, instead of checking it, it was like, if you check it,
it still hurts you. For sure. But he just lifts his leg up. He just goes heel to knee on the opposite
side. And so like a hacky sack. Right. Right. I've seen guys take thigh leg kicks like that.
Yeah. Kind of let it swing a little, but he does it with the calf. So it's like, he sees it coming.
It's set up doing that, stepping out and checking it. He just like, like, see that? Yeah. Yeah. That's
it. Well, that, I think in this instance, I think that was probably the, I don't know if that was
the first fight of this second fight. But is he's calf was already done? He was really happy. He told
me after that fight, he goes, when he got stopped in the first fight, he goes, dude, I wasn't even that
hurt. It wasn't that. He goes, I couldn't move. He goes, my calf was, it doesn't, it doesn't go away.
Yeah. That was crazy. That, that's hard to do. That's, that's kind of silly. That's hard. That's
kind of silly. I don't think he really does that block it with the bottom of your foot. He could,
though. I'm very interested in that fight, too. Him versus zero gone. That's very interesting.
For sure. For sure. And I know the power is going to translate over to heavyweight. That's not
going in a percent. He'll be out of flatline heavyweights. 100%. Especially with zero weight cut.
Yeah. He's probably two thirty two forty walking on two thirty something. Maybe he's two forty.
Yeah. Dude, come on. He's two forty walking around. That's a legit heavyweight. He's a legit
heavyweight. That's all long. Fucking guy for eighty five. But so is zero, man.
Zero's good. An athlete heavyweight. Not just a big guy fighting at heavyweight. He's a legit heavyweight.
It is a crime in the sport that that fight with Aspenal got stopped the way he did that he
I poked him. It's a crime. Yeah. Because that fight was playing out in a very interesting direction.
Because Aspenal was having a really hard time touching that. He was bleeding. He was getting
touched it up. He was getting touched up a lot. Searyl's jab is legit. And that's what I was
most excited for. I wanted to see Tom have to come back lose around and come up. I've never seen
him. I've obviously seen him fight, but I've never seen him in a real fight where you have to fight
your way back into it or how many times he's been in the second round twice. Maybe something crazy
like that nuts. And that's why the fan base kind of blew me away. I was like these guys are so
high on Aspenal right now. Like for a few months, everybody was talking about Aspenal how good he
is. I've never seen it. Not that he's not. He might. I mean, he has to be good to be where he's at.
Yeah. But I haven't seen it. Well, my thought was the real problem that Aspenal is going to
present is in the grappling. He's presuming he did to black belt. He's a big fucker. He's fast.
He's got a power double. I mean, he explodes. But when he's standing there and trying to stand
with Searyl gone, this is the first time that he was ever in front of a guy who was agile and
quick and very technical. Right. Searyl gone was doing a lot of sneaky shit. One thing he does is
he keeps his hand low and they pops that jab out. So you don't know where it's coming from.
Up jab. He does a lot of weird shit with his front leg too. He's pretty quick for his size.
Real quick. Real quick. And he's a good buddy. Good hips. Yeah, man. Searyl's a great athlete.
Like it's not just that I've seen him dunk basketballs and shit like he's he can move.
Right. But it's just the fluidity of his striking is so efficient. Like that's his world.
If you just want to strike with him. Yeah. I mean, John Jones is so smart. John's like,
fuck all this. Get a team. Even Francis. Francis, well, he had a brawler out knee in that fight.
But Francis just like took him down and beat him up. Yeah, man. But that's a different Searyl.
That's a Searyl that wasn't concentrating enough on his grappling and probably never
thought that Francis could employ that tactic. Right. And then really worked with a lot of
wrestlers and try to evolve his game. And you know, Francis is on that Nate Jake card as well.
Right. Right. He's fighting Philip Lins as a 8 to T guy. Yeah. How good is he?
I've never really watched him train that much. I know he made it to the UFC for a stint.
Then he went PFL. I'm not sure how good he is. Yeah. It's seen him at the gym,
but I've never watched him train fortunate that there's not another big name for him to fight.
Like, I was hoping they could get a big name. Bops out.
I mean, who would be the big name? Like, who's a heavyweight? Yeah, heavyweight. That's
still talented. No one. Yeah. Heavyweight is the most shallow division in the sport.
Peer. Kane's out of jail. Get him in shape.
Well, Kane's got crazy back surgeries and knee surgery and shoulder surgery.
Yeah. Kane was like too tough for his own body. And all the years of wrestling, man.
Where in Terry? Where in Terry?
Well, also just never given his body a break, just constantly grinded and pushing.
And that's why he was so good. I think in his prime the best.
I think he was the best. Well, he was certainly in the argument.
In my mind, it's him and Fedor, but honorable mention always, I give to Fabrizio Verdume.
Yeah. As Fabrizio Verdume, people want to think about losses.
Think about peak performances. Fabrizio Verdume tapped everybody.
He tapped all the legends. Great. He tapped Minotaro.
He tapped Fedor and he tapped Kane. Like, just that, just that alone.
He tapped all the legends. I don't know why he's named it. Like, when I was thinking about
heavyweights, why his name doesn't even come in. I always want to give him respect.
I always put it out there because the same way I do with BJ Penn, because people for,
they only want to think about BJ Penn. Maybe when he fought Frankie Edgar or when he fought,
yeah, you're right. You guys go back to BJ Penn when he fought Sean. Sure.
Go back to BJ Penn when he fought Diego Sanchez. That BJ Penn was a mother fucker.
Joe Stevenson. Yes. Joe Daddy Stevenson. You got to think about the guys when they're in their
prime, when they're at, when they're redlining for X amount of years at peak performance.
When you're talking about like all-time greats, I get it. All-time greats, you got to think
about guys like John Jones. It could be, but you never lost. They stayed flawless their entire
career. You're right. But for peak performance, when they're at their best, how good were they?
I put prime time BJ Penn at 155 against almost anybody. You're right, man. Bro, he was so good.
And his Jiu-Jitsu was so good. And he could knock you out. And he was an animal.
Just when he was training with Marv Barinovich, when he went over there and was like really learning
how to get in, in sane shape. And he would come there with...
Rocks underwater. All that shit. I think the Karen Rocks was him.
Marv Barinovich had him doing a lot of crazy plyometric stuff. And the Marv Barinovich's strategy was,
you already know how to fight. Fuck all this fighting. You know how to fight. What we're going to do
is just give you the most insane gas tank. So your fight training is like secondary. What's really
important is just having the most spectacular gas tank so you never get tired. But he hated those
camps, man. He hated it. Even in the peak of his shape, he was still a little soft. He was never
shredded. He was pretty shredded when he fought Joe Stevenson. Yeah, he had a six pack. He looked
good. I mean, he was different, but at 55, it was different. And everybody's body types different.
Well, at 70, he was never really at 170. You know, he was never... I mean, he's much smaller than
you. He was never really at 170. He was just so top that he went up to 170 and beat a prime time
at Hughes. Yeah. I mean, he stuck around longer than he should have. He definitely did. He did.
And that's what we fought without training well sometimes. And that's the thing people remember.
Yes. I hate that though. They remember that one fight we fought on. It was Tippy Toes. Remember
that fight? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. We're shit. But you got to think about him in his prime. That's
what I always say. Don't look at it. Like for Breeze over Doom. Don't look at all the fights. Look
at the fights when he was in his prime. He was putting it all together. Breeze was a nightmare.
It was a nightmare. Like when they hit their stride. That's what I was scared about staying around
the fighting too long. Like I retired at 36. I'm like, perfect. How much more athletic am I going to
get? How much faster am I going to get? How much power is the last thing to go? But durability,
speed, reaction time, everything that I need. Like, and if I'm not right in line for a title shot
or knocking on the door of it, like, what am I doing? Right. I'm fighting just to fight.
Crazy. That's when I had to look myself in the mirror. You know, like, okay, this is it.
I'm going to. You did the right thing. Be healthy. What's my faculties for the most part?
The age that you retired was the age that you over marrow entered into the UFC. Yeah.
Yeah. Isn't that nuts? Yeah. It really is crazy if you think about it because that's really what
I and there's a few outliers out there in the sport. Like in boxing, Usik is the great outlier.
Terrence Crawford is another great outlier. Dude, what about Usik and Rico? Crazy.
Super nice guy. I love Rico, man. Super nice guy. He's a nice guy, but without leg kicks,
the fact that he's going to just box and he's going to box maybe the best technical heavyweight
that's ever lived. I don't know, man. I learned my lesson, dude. I bet $5,000 on Fury.
Did you? Yeah. The second fight? Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. If anybody can beat him, it's Tyson Fury.
If anybody can beat Usik, it's Tyson Fury because Tyson Fury was beating him in the first fight.
He just got clipped. He got clipped and then I think it was the ninth. He got really badly hurt.
I don't remember what round it was, but he got really badly hurt and dropped. But Usik is just so slick.
Yeah, man. His footwork is movement. He's in the fact that he's essentially a blown-up
cruiserweight and he's beating all these giant heavyweights like Dubois. Daniel Dubois is terrifying.
Well, he did the Joshua just charged forward and just put fucking leather on his face.
Yeah. Rico is a real heavyweight, but he's not a pure boxer. No. I mean, he can hit hard.
I mean, there's that. But he's such a great kicker. You're taking a weapon away.
You're taking it all right. It's interesting. It's a spectacle. I'm watching for sure,
but I don't know. I'm sure he's boxed with a lot of like really elite boxers in the gym.
I mean, but over the years, for sure, for sure, he has the payday's probably bananas.
I'm sure they're fighting in front of the pyramids. Not crazy. Who's putting this together?
Who put that together? I have no idea. Aliens. That's where they're going to land.
They need to do it. The Colosseum fight in MMA or boxing where they set it up either in the Colosseum,
or right in front. You know, that'll be crazy. Well, they were talking about doing that with
Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg. They were talking about that. A real fight. I know,
that's so crazy. Dude, that would be so crazy. Have those guys be the first fight.
Do that when I met a headquarters or something. Don't do that at the Colosseum. Don't disrespect the
don't disrespect the Colosseum. I know. That's silly. So where who's live at the
parents of Giza, WBC World Heavyweight Championship, the zone, but like, I wonder who the promoter is.
WBC, I don't. Is that their faces? That's so ridiculous. Look at their circular,
golden gloves on. Glory in Giza. It's going to be interesting, man. I'm excited about it.
I wonder who's going to buy that. How much is that going to cost? I'm going to buy it.
But I mean, how many people are going to buy that? You know what I mean? I got to buy it because
it's, I love Rico. I've had Rico on the show. I think he's the greatest heavyweight kickboxer
of all time. For sure. I feel like the way combat sports has kind of intertwined all different
stuff, boxing, MMA, how big mixed martial arts is now. You're going to get a lot of crossover before
you'd get a lot of hardcore boxing fans buying this pay-per-view. But now you're kind of going to get
a little bit of everything. Kickboxing MMA boxing fans. Glory has such a small audience,
unfortunately. And this was the, you know, this is the argument that Dana has said to me,
because kickboxing in America that they tried with Glory. I just don't think they got the right
promotion. I think if the UFC wasn't there. I mean, it's non-stop action. It's highlights the
whole time. It's what I'm saying. I feel like if the UFC got behind kickboxing in America,
it could be gigantic, especially kickboxing with MMA gloves. Giza Lee of Guy was fighting in the
octagon. No fucking gigantic. That would be. Or Yuki Yoza. There's another guy.
Masata Nori is a bunch of guys. There's a bunch of guys that are like really elite that are fighting.
Yeah. Oh, a bunch, man. A lot, a lot, a lot.
Yeah, Masaki Nori. Usic opened to fighting John Jones and crossover MMA fight. What?
Wait, okay. Now you got me interested. Dude, if the UFC comes up with the cheddar,
you better start wrestling now. Yeah, you better start wrestling right now.
Is that real? Did he say that? Rico is first. Second is whoever wins between
Wardley and Dubois. And the third fight is my fed greedy belly Tyson Fury. So he's not a,
a rematch with Dubois. A tough sell. He just starched him. The Tyson Fury fight is the big
fight because Tyson Fury is the only guy that in my eyes makes sense. Says a fight with Jake
Paul and MMA at this stage is not being considered. But we're always open to creative and interesting
collaborations in the future. If we were talking about crossover fights, a very interesting matchup
could be against John Jones in the United States. Whoa. I don't know what John's gonna do, man,
with all the stuff going on with the UFC. He might be done. Who knows? He doesn't want to be done.
I know he got stem cells on his hip. I know because I helped him get it. He got it over at,
he's talked about it. I wouldn't have talked about it, but he talked about it. He got it at
waist a well. And so he's feeling a lot better. He does have arthritis in his hip. It bothers him,
but it doesn't bother him enough where he can't fight. And you know, he's the greatest of all time.
Period. I did stem cells and PRP in my hip. I didn't notice anything from that.
Well, it really depends on where you're getting the stem cells, what technology they're using.
There's a bunch of different kinds of stem cells. Yeah, yeah. Talk to Brigham about that. He can
explain it to you. I got it. Maybe one. You had a labrum tear, right? It was pretty significant.
Yeah. And I had to get the head of my femur reshaped, like a resurfacing. It was kind of egg-shaped
and it needs to be rounded. So it tore everything off the inside of my hip. So how do they do that?
They take your leg out of socket. They shave the top rounded and then they micro,
they put like a bunch of small holes in it to where it cracks and then stem cells leak out of
your body to create a new surface out of your bone. How long did that take to recover? I couldn't
put pressure on it for eight weeks. Wow. Yeah, because it's like. So you're just walking around on
one leg, two months. And then once you start walking on it, how weird was it? Very weird,
because I had to sleep in like a motion machine where my leg wouldn't stop moving at night.
Oh my god. Because your hip capsule is like tricky. If it if it heals up too tight,
you know, your leg won't have any any range of motion at all. So while it's healing,
you need to be in perpetual motion, I guess. That's crazy. And every week they would send a new code
for my wife to type in the machine and it would be a little bit different angle. Whoa. Yeah.
So my what a nightmare. For those eight weeks, I was sleeping in this metal brace that moved my
leg all night. How did you sleep? It was horrible because it went up to like your your junk inside
your leg and the outside of your leg. So it's like, you had a wedgie by this machine and your leg's
this motion all night. Oh my god. It's like man. That's terrifying. But it healed up. It healed up
good. That's crazy that it worked. Yeah. Wow. Resurfacing. Whoa. The guy actually who did it
in Vel Colorado, invented the surgery. GSPs had hip surgery there. Really? Yeah. He invented this
surgery. And GSP had to do the same bullshit. I don't know if he had exactly what I had, but he
he had surgery there. Oh my god. That sounds like two months of no sleeping. How'd you sleep?
Did you get used to it? Well, the first week pain medicine and stuff you're on all that stuff.
It was after like when I stopped taking all that pain medicine has been fun. Do do do do do do do do do.
Triple Z, dude. I was having dreams and getting the best sleep of my life. Yeah. That's a
time where it makes sense to take that shit. Like you're in a fucking crazy brace. Let's party.
Yeah, for sure.
Watching that flicks and just not giving shit about my leg.
Yeah, I'm sleeping in this machine.
Yeah, for real.
Or the hell's happening about my leg.
Right, right.
I was on one of those where my knee reconstructed.
You've had a bunch of knee surgeries.
Yeah, but my left knee, I had a patella tendon graft,
and they put me on one of them things,
where it does this, like when I was in the hospital,
and it had a morphine drip.
So you could press the button to get more morphine.
I was like, blank, blank, blank, blank.
Dude, I had the same thing
on my hip.
They put it epidural,
and then they had a nerve block through my stomach.
So I was like completely paralyzed from the waist down,
but I had the button thing.
I don't think it was working anymore,
because I, I revved it out.
It was, it was shooting blanks, man.
That's hilarious.
It is weird, though, to see your knee constantly moving forward,
but I only had to do it like a couple of nights.
I can't imagine it for weeks.
I can't imagine.
That must have been so hard to sleep, man.
The motion wasn't so bad,
because it's kind of slow.
Oh, okay.
It was the metal in my groin.
Oh, yeah.
It probably rubbed it raw and shit.
Oh, God.
Yeah, man.
Fuck, man.
But like I said, I was on the pain medicine, so.
It's crazy that it all worked, though.
Yeah, dude.
Shout out to that doctor.
Shout out to all these doctors.
I say that all the time, like,
both my knees would be fucking completely useless
if it wasn't for amazing doctors.
Right.
Shout out to these doctors.
I was just talking figure and shit out.
I worked with Paul Felder at the Vegas show,
and he just had a hip replacement.
Yeah, he had the real deal, right?
It's so, yeah, no, he had a replacement replacement.
Why did he have to do that versus what you did?
I'm not sure exactly.
It's something to do with the spacing, I think.
Inside your hip, how much spacing you have?
Because my spacing was good.
I wasn't a candidate for a replacement.
Well, Paul went full nutty after he stopped fighting
and started doing Iron Man's.
Yeah, dude, he was telling me he travels
with a bicycle.
He does like, still does that?
Cycling for five hours, like in a hotel room, like crazy.
That's not good.
Crazy, man.
Crazy, man.
That's not healthy.
Yeah.
Why are you doing that, Paul?
Five hours he told me.
Well, the same kind of drive that made him a great MMA fighter,
made him want to like be the best Iron Man dude in the world.
You need something like that, man.
Way before the surgery, just a couple of years ago,
when you first got diagnosed, I guess, with some injury.
Yeah.
It's a range of motion.
My right hip reached out to Heather, Dr. D, from the UFC,
helping the MRI.
Long story short, I have the hips and the 80 year old man.
No soft tissue left, grinding bone on bone.
Lee.
The problem is, once they put an artificial joint in you,
you have that artificial joint forever.
It's never going back.
And as biologics get better and stem cells get better,
they're better and better at re-healing or healing that actual tissue.
And if you could just hang in there, this is the kind of the conversation
that I have with John, because if you could just hang in there,
they're so close.
They're injecting stuff into discs now and making the discs larger.
Right.
So people with back problems where the doctors like,
look, we've got to take some of your discs out and hang in there and also look
into other therapies, decompression.
There's a lot of different things that you could do that can create space
where your disc is pushing against your nerves.
You can alleviate a lot of that.
Surgery is the absolute last step.
Especially when you're back.
Absolutely.
Look, if you have a bone piece, they're going to cut you up.
They'll do it any time.
It's good business.
Cut you open and the medicine, the hardware, everything, it's a racket.
That's the last step.
That's the problem.
When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
And when doctors get paid for doing surgery, they want to do surgery.
Because that's where they make their living.
And it's a real problem and stuff like the back.
Because I don't know anybody that's had a back surgery and been better.
Right.
The only big one I could think of, I remember Nate Quarry was a big advocate
for some company.
Remember he had a bad artificial spacer?
Yeah.
He had artificial discs put in his back way back in the day.
Yeah.
He's the guy I think about back surgery.
But he also, it was an intense pain because of that.
And I think it wound up becoming a problem later on.
I know guys that initially had some relief because of back surgery.
And then it started getting way worse after that.
They're the same follow ups.
Always the same story.
Like, same thing with necks.
Like you lose strength.
It's always bothering you for the rest of your life.
Like Mike Brown has a fusion where they went in through the front.
Fusions are rough.
My buddy, Alan Shoeban had a neck surgery
where Kayla Harrison just had one.
Like once you have that.
We didn't.
Kayla have done.
I don't know exactly.
I don't think she's telling anybody.
I know that pretty sure they went in through the front.
Right.
But I don't think she's telling anybody what exactly happened.
Because like Al Jermaine had a disc replaced.
And he came back and beat Pewdiepie on in the rematch.
And looked fucking great.
And fought really well with that neck issue.
And you don't hear him complaining about that?
No, I mean, he said it's great.
Yeah.
I think that the new artificial discs
that they're putting in the necks,
a lot of them, it works out really well.
I know quite a few people that have had those.
I've been fortunate, man.
I haven't had any neck.
She had to repair her needed discs in her neck.
Right.
So the thing is what they usually do
is just take some of the disc out.
And then you have less disc.
So it's not bulging anymore, but you have less disc now.
So now you have more degenerative disc issues.
And I just think there's other options.
And one of the options is decompression.
And I don't know if anybody ran that by her.
But I have a fucking neck harness.
It's attached to a chin up bar.
And I put it around my neck.
It straps under my chin.
And I put my weight on it.
And I just like stretch my neck out.
It works.
I hear it pop.
Yeah.
Pop.
Is there a replace to disc?
Oh, she had a replace.
Okay, she got that thing that Al Jermaine got done.
Yeah, how's she gonna fight that quickly?
Oh, yeah, yeah, look at that.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I wonder what her turnaround time is.
I mean, international fight week maybe her.
Her Amanda, well, she's fine.
Isn't she was supposed to be fighting in the white harness?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Her and Amanda were supposed to.
They decided not to do that.
Yeah.
So maybe this summer?
Maybe.
Cause it's gonna be, I mean, that's a big fight.
Her and Amanda.
It's a big fight.
But I mean, there's a possibility that you do something like that
and you never the same again.
So she might not ever surgery.
Yeah, it's like, you're, when are you dealing with your spine?
It's very tricky.
Yeah, you know, it's just one of those things.
It's like, errr.
Shoulders, knees, there's some things, man.
You don't want to injure.
I don't think anybody's gonna come back
from a knee replacement and fought MMA.
I've never heard of that.
I've heard of disc replacements.
I've heard of a lot of knee surgeries.
Guys come back.
But desis buccacus was the worst.
Remember that?
He fought Khalil and Khalil side kicked his knee sideways.
And he hyper extended it.
Oh, it went sideways.
John does that knee stomp thing too.
I don't, I don't know how I feel about that, man.
Well, Ian Gary did it at the shopcott.
I don't know how I feel about it.
Fuck shopcotts knee up.
I know it's kind of fucked because, look, yes,
it's effective.
It's legal.
I feel like that's what I was about to say.
I feel like it's kind of dirty.
Like it legalize iPods.
It is dirty.
It means sore nut shots.
Like, nut shots are effective too.
Are we gonna allow those?
No.
I mean, why are we allowing someone to do a technique
that you have?
We do have 12 to 6 elbows now.
So that's at least we're getting somewhere.
Yeah.
I like that.
Yeah.
But I'd rather have knees to a grounded opponent
than kicking the knee sideways.
It just seems like it takes a year off of your career.
It's at least soaking a knee bar, soaking a arm bar,
like hitting a tap.
True.
You get a knee bar, you get tapped.
Inside heel hooks are scariest
because you only got a couple of microseconds to tap.
When you get that one, that one's so nasty.
The knee crop, you have no time.
You just got a tap.
Yeah.
You just got a one-year done.
You got to know when he got, yeah, and not let it.
Did you ever see when Mikey Musameachie
fought some cat in, I think I know what you're talking about?
And the dude would not tap.
He was just ripping his knee apart.
And Mikey was talking about it afterwards.
He was so gross.
I was like, why did you make me do that to you?
Why didn't you just tap?
He mangled that guy's legs.
I think I saw a highlight of that.
It was horrible.
It's so horrible to watch.
You got it?
Show me.
Yeah, let's see this.
Here it is.
Look at this.
Look at his leg.
Bro, bro, bro.
That is almost as nasty as watching that arm bar
or that guillotine from Dan Miller.
Look at this.
This dude won't tap.
It's so crazy.
And Mikey is just a minister at destroying your knees.
Any normal human being would have tapped.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
And he does this like seven times in this match
where he rips his guy's legs, sideways,
left ways, right ways.
The guy's knees destroyed.
Like look at that.
Look how nasty this is, man.
This is so nasty.
Look how side right there.
That angle's so awful.
The fact that this dude is just tolerating it,
like right there, that's destroyed.
That is destroyed.
I don't know if that dude ever competed again afterwards.
He might never be the same.
No, you know, he won't be the same.
He won't be, he'll never be a hundred percent.
Like you get your shit ripped apart like that.
For sure there's some menaceous.
M-C-O, M-C-O, M-C-O, everything.
Fuck that.
He looks, that changed the body.
I've been fortunate man with my knees.
I have a torn meniscus in my right knee
but never needed surgery, you know.
Had a partial tear on my ACL when I fought Islam.
He pulled me off against the fence in my knee slid
and I felt it tear.
It felt like fire in my knee, you know.
And when you feel pain in a fight, you know it's bad
because you usually don't.
But I felt it burning like fire.
But you didn't need surgery?
Didn't need surgery, did a much physical therapy.
I had a partial tear.
There's something called maybe a ligamentum
or something that connects where your ACL is.
Every time you tear your ACL,
the ligamentum's completely torn.
Always and mine had a partial tear in that.
So I must have ticked the weight off
or we switched a position right before it tore my ACL.
Oh, yeah.
But I had like bruising, you know,
back of my leg was all bruised up.
Couldn't bend it for a little bit.
But now it's 100%.
Yeah, I feel great.
Yeah, that's interesting.
Like Arnold out.
No, who was it that was telling me that?
There's different people that have had different levels
of tears and then in those levels of tears,
like some of them you can come back from 100%.
But some of them, okay, this dude, a broken ankle too.
Oh, my God.
So this dude that, try saying his name.
How do you say his name?
Gentimer by endurance.
By endurance.
So this is the guy Mikey Musumechi.
He was torn ACL, torn MCL, torn meniscus
and a broken ankle.
That's crazy.
That's crazy.
He did like a toe hold or something.
How do you break his ankle?
So was it Brendan Allen?
Was Brendan Allen was in the podcast.
He was telling me this.
He tore his ACL completely and never got it fixed
and it reattached.
Wow.
Well, I got a slightly different angle, but reattached.
Like a tore off, but it was still hanging in there
and it rehealed.
I was like, that's not, I never heard of that before.
But I know some people that have had like a three quarter
tear and it heals, but it's not really the same.
It's still a little funky.
You know, Brad Pickett fought his whole career
with the torn no ACL in one of his legs.
I think Justin has that situation.
Like Brad would sit on the ground on the mat
and then grab his shin and slide it forward.
You could see like the movement.
How does that not chew your meniscus apart?
So many fights like that.
Oh my God.
Well, Riko Rodriguez did too.
Riko always had a blown out ACL and he fought.
Riko was down in Louisiana for a while, man.
Riko Rodriguez was.
Well, he was one of the first Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
black belts.
I trained with him at Tim's gym before.
Yeah, he was really good on the ground, man.
Riko was really good on the ground.
And he was UFC heavyweight champion at that point in time.
I know, people forget.
Dude, I didn't even know who he was.
I was sparring him.
Tim was like, that's crazy.
Was a heavyweight champion to use.
I'm like, no way.
I know in that fight.
He was out of shape.
You know, I was like, who's this big tattooed guy?
Let's go.
Yeah.
There's a lot of guys that people forgot.
They slept on.
It's interesting when you think about that.
He was running a gym in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
I don't know if he's still here.
Riko was?
Yeah.
He had partnered with the Baton Rouge in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
He took over an LA boxing.
They turned it into a UFC gym now.
But he was part owner or something.
He was running it.
Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a hard road when guys retire.
And people don't even remember them.
Like, at least you have a giant name.
Like, you're always going to be able to do seminars.
You're always going to want to bring you into events.
You have a career no matter what.
Yeah, I've been doing a lot of watch parties
where I get with the fans and watch the fights.
It's fun, man.
I enjoy it.
That's cool.
It's sometimes a little awkward because the fans
will stick around too long.
Like, I'm watching the fights.
You come sit in my booth and like,
we run out of things to talk about.
It's like, okay, man, let me get you number.
Like, hey, bro, my buddy's on FaceTime.
Can you talk to so and so, like, dude, just chill.
I know.
Some people just can't hang.
Dude, but I fought, like I said, 19 years.
I say 20, but it's 19 years that I fought.
Until, like, Connor fight, like, that's when things changed
for me, recognition wise.
Yeah.
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Wow, that's interesting.
That's crazy because-
Like the door open for seminars, for appearances,
that changed.
Changed.
That's so weird.
And I had been in so many UFC main events,
I had fought for the belt, I've done all this stuff,
but that guy's name, Jen.
Isn't it nuts?
I just personality got him so far.
Well, obviously, very skilled for the Eddie Alvarez fight.
That's DeConner in his prime form.
When he was in the-
Aldo.
Yes.
Eddie, the Aldo fight was great,
but because it was one shot and-
And nobody's done that to Aldo ever, ever.
And since that was amazing,
but the Alvarez fight was him in the Matrix.
When the punch is moving up in a way,
touching his nose and he's firing back those combinations,
he was just in the zone.
He was-
And Eddie's nose-
You walk in the park.
No.
Eddie's good, man.
Eddie's tough as fuck.
When Eddie beat Dosanjos, I was like, holy shit, man.
I was always a big Eddie fan.
Oh, he was-
Bro, his-
That was his fight with Chandler.
You wanna talk about taking-
Oh, Belgerius off your life.
Yeah, yeah.
Those fights that those two have that nobody was watching,
other than the hardcore guys,
those were-
To this day, I tell people,
you wanna watch some chaos?
Watch Eddie Alvarez and Michael Chandler in Bellator.
There's some of the best fights of all.
Knock down, drag out.
Both guys.
If you're a fan of chaos, watch those fights.
Those fights were fucking bananas.
And so that's when we anticipated when Chandler came over
and then we knocked out Dan Hooker in the first round.
I was like, oh shit, he's here.
Same card, same card as me and Connor.
But I think that it was too late.
I think we had already suffered so much punishment
and been so-
If we got a hold of Michael Chandler,
like six, seven years before that
when he was fighting in Bellator,
this is the problem with PFL,
this is the problem with Bellator.
And I don't think it's a problem
because I think these guys are prize fighters.
You know, like, I think Francis and Godos said it best
when he was talking about this Netflix card.
They're saying,
someone said to him,
you think this is this fucks with your legacy?
He goes legacy, who's legacy for?
For you, he goes, fuck, keep your legacy.
Give me my money, give me my pay.
This is what I'm supposed to be getting.
I'm Francis and Godos.
And I think he's right.
But he's Francis and Godos.
He's already the UFC Heavyweight Champion
left as the UFC Heavyweight Champion.
But for a lot of these guys that are starting their career,
their best years are in these other organizations
and not enough people know.
Like Johnny Ebblin,
perfect example you were talking about before.
He knocked out Leon Ed, which brother.
I mean, he's fucking good.
Beat Musasi.
I cornered him when he beat Musassi.
Yeah.
Musassi's alleged group watching him.
A legend.
There's a guy, another one,
a good guy that people forgot about.
Gagard Musassi was a fucking beast.
By the time he made it to the UFC,
I was already such a big fan,
but like the casuals didn't know he was.
Oh, he was so good, dude.
Gagard was so good, so smart, right?
Just so smart and unassuming.
Was it him who upkicked Jokarey?
Yeah, yeah.
Into a triangle.
Yep.
Yeah, man.
Yeah.
I think that was in Dream.
Dream.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, Gagard was a beast, man.
He was a beast.
Eddie Alvarez and Dream was a bunch of good fights.
And Gagard stopped wide men in the UFC.
Really good fundamental boxing.
Great jab.
Yeah.
Great everywhere.
Yeah, good wrestling.
Good wrestling defense, man.
Super smart, too.
Just a very, very intelligent guy.
Super cool.
He got put on the shelf with the Bellator deal.
He got put on the shelf.
And I don't know what's going on with him.
What was that?
I don't know.
He might not even saucy last fall.
He might not even still be under contract with PFL or whatever.
Well, I think he's 40 now.
He was old in the UFC.
Yeah.
He's got to be close to 40 if not for older.
Where's Gagard and Musasi these days?
He got drafted in the global fight.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, that thing.
I knew that was going to fall apart from the jump.
That thing was weird.
We were talking to coaches at American top team,
and they were telling me like all these ex UFC fighters,
what their contracts were with this company.
I was like, dude, they haven't even put on one show
and they're signing guys to these kind of contracts.
I mean, the money was crazy.
So 2023 was his last fight.
How old is he now?
So you lost the Fabian Edwards, the same guy
that Ebblin knocked out.
40.
Yeah, cornered Ebblin.
Dream catch.
In that fight, dude, he got cut so bad with the nobo.
Like I can see the vein in this.
I have it in my phone.
It was crazy.
I have it in my phone.
The vein's still intact.
It didn't cut the vein, but you can see it.
Oh, boy.
It's pretty, pretty annoying.
And then he stopped him.
Yeah, Elbow.
Yeah.
It was a, we were in Ireland.
Yeah, Ebblin's a tough guy, man.
And I think he's like one of those guys.
It's like at the very top of the heap at 185.
But again, I know about him, but how many people do?
That's unfortunate.
Yeah, you know, because he's been fighting.
He's got another fight for how many, how many years now?
Well, he was Bellator, Bellator, and then they fought him.
Yeah.
For how many years now?
A long time.
I had one or two fights when Bellator assigned him.
He got in early at Bellator.
But he's a student, man.
He's going to keep getting better.
He's pretty young.
Young still.
Submitting Marcon's crazy.
That's crazy.
Right?
Anything else small he is?
He fought at 185 in the UFC, and he submitted 260 pound Marcon.
Gagard Musassi was a fucking beast.
He was a beast.
Just technique.
Yup.
Just technique, toughness, and intelligence.
Just so crafty.
Just so good.
Yeah.
Everywhere.
Good on the ground.
Good standing up.
And super patient, man.
Not cool.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's always been a fan of him.
There's a lot of those guys that just got people forget about.
They forgot.
You know?
Yeah.
A bunch.
I would say that one guy that people underestimated because they didn't get to see him
when he was in his prime, or they just forgot is Mosvedal.
Oh, man.
People forgot how good Mosvedal is.
Mosvedal knocked out of Eve Edwards with a head kick.
Yup.
You remember that?
Yeah.
Bro, Mosvedal in his prime was a mother fucker.
He was good.
When he knocked out Darantill, remember that shit?
That switchstep or...
Oh, my God.
Yeah.
Of course.
Switchstep.
I think he caught him with a left hook.
Knocked him out.
Cold.
Cold.
And he was a dog.
Like when he started focusing on his wrestling, he was at the hook and strike force, man.
At 55.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
He was a dog back then.
No.
Mosvedal was a beast, man.
And he's good everywhere, man.
He's good everywhere.
He has good jujitsu, good wrestling.
Good boxing.
Yeah.
He's good everywhere.
I mean, when he went out of the 170, not really his weight class.
His real weight class was 55.
Yeah, but I think as he got older, he's a big guy.
He's a big guy.
He's a big guy.
He has really thick legs and he's a little bit taller.
Mm-hmm.
He's taller than me for sure, but...
But like when he was really competitive, I feel like it was at 55.
Yeah.
But I mean, like he gave guys problems at 70.
Like the Darantill fight was at 70.
He fucked a lot of guys up at 70.
Cowboy.
Yup.
Cowboy.
Was that at 70?
Body shot at 170.
Damn.
And you know, he was having those back yard fights in the Kimbo Slice days.
Yup, yup.
Which is crazy.
The Baron Uncle Kimbo Slice fights.
Yeah, man.
Kimbo used to come to American Top Team.
He used to bring his kids and stuff.
It was crazy talking to him.
Cause I grew up watching his fights.
I know.
But he was like the first guy to become a legend on YouTube.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Everybody knows who he is.
Pussy looks so cool.
The bald head and the beard and the hair in the back.
Yeah, everything was crazy the braids in the bed. Yeah super jacked and just fucking people up in the backyard. Yeah
Like they were moving around like I think he was a
Bodyguard or a driver for a guy in Miami who started a porn company, and that's how it started. Exactly. Yeah
And they organized these fights. Yeah, where they were just no warm-up. Just all right. Let's go
Get out the car in the front front driveway and walk to the back and just start scrapping. I know it's crazy
But as a kid like when that stuff came out as a kid, there was such a big thing to watch
You know that we had to download it illegally on like lime wire or something back then. Yeah, you know
That was a while times and then to see him in the UFC in the ultimate fight or do what a journey that guy I know
What balls it took for him to do that to enter into the UFC would like basically zero grappling. Yeah
Like really just kind of learning the sport, but you know
Good boxing, but I don't think like Jim not trained boxing just natural ability and well
You definitely had some training right the way he moved was even in the barren knuckle the way he moved was like a boxer a
Shell, you know, yeah like a Mike Tyson movement. Yeah, but it was like quarter of rudimentary remember when he fought Seth
Petra's Ellie. Yeah, yeah, like last minute Petra's Ellie comes in last minute like Ken Shamrock had some sort of a dispute with them and
Maybe got cut backstage or something said I had a cut until like last minute. They swapped out Seth Petra's Ellie and he knocked him out
Yeah, I called that one
What I called that one elite X camera. No, I wasn't doing it the commentary. I think it wasn't lead XC
I think that bankrupt them or something. I don't know how like they that fight bankrupt them
I don't know if it bankrupt them, but after that happened they didn't have many more shows after that
Well, I think they were going under anyway unfortunate. Yeah, I don't know how that fight would have bankrupt them
But well, they had some guy was a boxing guy who was running the whole thing was named Gary Shaw
I don't know if I can remember either
But I you know like it's hard to make money in these things man like those things are hard
It's cut like the UFC doesn't get the credit deserves in terms of the promotional machine
Like that's a smooth running machine. Oh, yeah, that machine's been around for a long time
It's so polished between the production all the guys in the truck the directors the producers
That's the best of the best. Yeah, that's the best. It's hard and then you got all the best fighters
And it's like the product so when they have a fight like Holloway and and all of era and like oh this fight wasn't good like
That's a great fight man. It's just you can't be a casual people are just blood. There's yeah, you know like this
Listen to do that to max Holloway's crazy. Do you know to appreciate that go watch baseball wrestlers great
Grapplers have never done that to him. I know it's nuts. It's nuts if you think about it. Yeah
It's exciting man that UFC's definitely the best at it with this whole paramount thing
I was kind of we'll see how it turns out
I was kind of worried like if you take pay-per-view off the table
How much are you is UFC gonna put the biggest fights together because they don't need to sell pay-per-views
They're guaranteed money, you know
I was just wondering if that would not water it down
But we'd get a bunch of weaker cards and I'm still waiting to find out what is weird right because with pay-per-view
You're always building it up so that people buy it and then it also
Points like the fighters get paid points. So so how are fighters getting paid now?
I've been asking every show at work. I ask everybody. I want to know because I've you know my last few years in the UFC
I know what it's telling you nobody's telling me anything. They keeping you in the dark
Cuz you know, I was pay-per-view partner multiple fights with the UFC
Mm-hmm if there's and that was always the thing they kind of in this in
Discussion about contracts and about future fights that they kind of held over you like right you win this fight one day
You're gonna fight for the belt you're gonna get pay-per-view your life's gonna change that was always a carrot
They hung like to make you know to do anything to that was the goal to one day fight for the belt and get pay-per-view money
But now that that's gone. I mean Conor's not gonna fight even Justin at the White House
There's no way these guys aren't fighting with that back door money
So they must be just guaranteeing them a bigger per. I don't know
Well, I think Justin would fight no matter what because it's for the title
This is last fight. Well that yeah, the title the title
But any pay-per-view got the White House. He's a patriot. It's the last fight
You know, I think he would fight no matter what but
Like you know Ronda Rousey, you know, she's promoting the Netflix fight and she made I don't know if you saw what she said
But she had this big long speech about the UFC selling for seven billion dollars and these fighters aren't making enough money
And you know, look she made some good points and the most important thing is that she gets the conversation out there
And it puts pressure on the UFC to pay people more
You know, and if Netflix King becomes successful at MMA if they can become successful putting cards together and
Pulling fighters away like right now. They're doing a one-off right? It's one-off and it's kind of a gimmicky thing and listen
This payroll is gonna be crazy. It's gonna be crazy. You got Ronda Francis a night. Yeah
These everybody's getting raising money the payroll is gonna be nuts
But if anybody's got that kind of money, it's Netflix
They throw around a lot of ridiculous money. They make so much money
So they can kind of do that the question is are they gonna do that more than once so they do that more than once
Then what happens is it's all about the name of the fighters just like boxing like if boxing no one cares if it's gold and boy
No, of course bar. I'm nobody cares about that. What they care about is who's fighting who is it?
Benevita's who's he fighting if fighting be ball. Let's go. That's a great fight
So if if Netflix can kind of do the boxing thing on Netflix
With like big-name stars they can be a major player and that will elevate everybody's pay scale
So it's a lot of people like oh Ronda, how could you turn her back on the UFC and talk shit like that?
It's you if she's what she's saying doesn't make any sense she can't say it, right?
So if what she's saying makes sense then you have to go
She's got a point. Yeah, she got a point. She got a point. They sold it for seven billion dollars or whatever it is
They got this billion seven billion dollar deal whatever the fucking deal with with Paramount not even selling it sold rights to it, right?
That makes sense. She's making sense and so if she's saying this and Netflix
Listened and if someone comes along and they're a shrewd businessman they go looking a lot of people their contracts are coming up and
When these people's contracts are coming up, let's get in negotiations
And then also in some people start drifting over. Yeah, so I've like you get like an Islam market show
Starts leaving and they leave and go fight in Netflix and then they can talk four or five top major contenders
Yeah, and to do it look. It's a big ask look. I love the UFC
Spent my most of my professional career there, but I love seeing these other organizations come up and people making money
It's right like you said it rises everything. It's more places for people to work, you know, it's great
It's only good Olivier Alba Mercier made a million dollars come on in the PFL
Yeah, and I think he made me did it more than once, right?
Did anyone the tournament twice or something like that? I'm not sure
You definitely wanted at least once so the Canadian gangster right a guy who's not in the top 10 of the UFC
Goes over to another you organization to make some million dollars, okay?
I don't know if that's sustainable for them. I don't know how they came up with that money
They got to be bleeding money out have to be bleeding nobody's one or even guys like Pettis who was a former world champion
Who you know his contract was good in the UFC right didn't choose not to resign with the UFC and he went to PFL
They had to be paying them big money. They have to be you know, so
It's all competition
Ultimate is good for the most important thing which is paying the fighters. Yeah, so I'm in places to work like if the UFC cuts you or something you back it you know
Ten years ago, there's only place to make money right they cut you now you got to get a job
Maybe fight try to get back in part-time fighting like try to get now you can pivot and still have a career
Well, this is the thing with Francis when Francis left the PFL
Everybody's like well now he's fucked because he can't fight in the UFC can't like I wanted him to come back to the UFC
Yeah, I was like come on
Can we figure out a way to do this happen, but Dana just does not want to have anything to do with them like apparently
They did not get along very well, which is like I'm like come on. Yeah, I don't come. Can I help?
Can I fucking get you guys in a room together and fucking calm everybody down?
but at the most important thing is he's still a guy I want to watch. Oh, yeah
I mean, he's still legit heavyweight champion if you think about it never got beat in MMA as a heavyweight champion
You know and then he fought heading for error
In PFL. Yeah, it's another ATT guy, but it's another one where it's like who's watching that?
I mean, and if you're watching it, you're just watching it for Francis me. Yeah. Yeah, like I mean
I want to know like what were the numbers for that fight?
It's probably the biggest fight they ever put on. I don't think I've ever seen any numbers from PFL
And I think like the great he was like getting 20 million of fight and he wanted his opponents to get a
Huge amount too. I forget what the he like a minimum amount his opponents would get in his contract respect
I didn't know that yeah, that's awesome. That's part of his contract. I forget what the number was, but it was substantial
So heading for error got a giant payday for that fight too. It's like how are they where are they getting? I guess they got Saudi money
I think they did for some other shows because they went to Saudi to do some shows, but
I don't know if they're backing them the whole the whole company
You're gonna need something like Netflix and Netflix can kind of pull it off because Netflix has a massive promotional machine
And but they they need big names
So like now that they have Nate and Mike Perry on the car too like okay
Okay, so you got Nate Mike Perry. You got Francis Philip lens. You have Ronda and Gina
Okay, now you have three interesting fights. Yeah, you got to need a few more and it's on Netflix
So it's gonna be free, but even if Nate and Mike Perry was the head the headliner
Yeah, I would have bought that paper for 100% when you don't have to buy it right on Netflix
Yeah, so this is what gets interesting
So if this fight goes on Netflix and gets a 50 million views, it's gonna get a lot
Yeah, it could get more views than any fight ever. Yeah, it could it's very possible that that because Netflix is bigger than anything
If they got more views than anybody ever
That would be fucking but then YouTube might come along most of you guys on mixed martial arts event
Hey guys, we're YouTube. We're even bigger than Netflix
YouTube is bigger than fucking Netflix YouTube is everywhere and if they come up with some crazy cave
So if more players get involved in this and more people become free agents
It could get very interesting. It is crazy to see how far the sport has come because like back all these big companies
Wouldn't want to touch this human cock fighting back in the day now everybody wants a piece of the pie
I know it's cool now. They know. Yeah, it's cool now right that cage fighting became something that like corporate America wants to get in
I'm in the airport. I mean the grocery store grandmothers old, you know
Ladies are walking up to me talking about fights, which is insane. It's insane. It's 15 years ago. It loves it
Bearded guys with tattoos would be in the grocery store. We'd whisper about it, you know, it was frowned upon
We talk about fight club, you know, now it's like soccer moms
Did you see the fight last weekend the arm bar? I'm like, what are you talking about? Well, that's all the UFC
UFC with that one deal the frittitas have such huge balls because they were down 40 million dollars
When they made that deal for spike TV to do the ultimate fighter and they were like we're fucking
Emerging money and they were talking about selling it and it's just a perfect storm
Stefan and Forrest the world was watching man, and it felt special. I remember being at my mother's house
I knew I was watching something special. Yeah, like this is special. I know it was crazy being there live too. It was so nuts
It was so nuts to watch it evolve and watch it burst out by then by 2005. I'd already been working for them for like four years
Because I well, I started in 97 with the old owners and I did like the backstage and post-fight interviews
And then I did it for a little bit and then I had a quit. I was like this is costing me money
I made more money go and do a comedy club for a weekend
Then I would flying to Dothan, Alabama
Your city Louisiana, but I was happy I did it because it was fun and is exciting and I remember me and Eddie Bravo back then
We're like man, you know what the UFC needs. This is like literally a conversation. We had like 98
They need some crazy billionaires that love the sport to just dump a bunch of money in it because we know it's exciting
It's just the rest of the world doesn't know and along came the frittitas
They did it
Did they saw it and wrote that vision out and it paid off. It's nuts
Literally like exactly what we said needed to happen and then for that fight to happen in the ultimate fighter
Between Stefan Bonner and Forrest Griffith because it was a perfect kind of fight
Was it was so evenly matched? It was so chaotic and they knew each other so well from being in the house together
They just went after it for three solid rounds at the end both guys are like oh
But do that nothing how could the idea of
The actual Kumite idea of putting the best fighters from all over the world whatever's discipline they train in
Let's find out was the bet. That's I mean
It has it's of course. It's gonna succeed. It's chaos
Yeah, it's everything you want to see and the crazy thing
It was really kind of invented as a showcase for Gracie Jiu-Jitsu
Because the whole Horean was like, you know like look Jiu-Jitsu is gonna prevail and he was kind of right
No, I mean at first dude hoist was in there against
Giants dance ever and dude come on chemo
What do you weigh a hundred eighty pounds hundred eighty maybe not even maybe even one seventy six
Fight these bodybuilders and I asked him why they pick him he goes look at this face
He look a beautiful. Yeah, I'm so good looking. That's why they pick me
Where in pajamas. We even know what he was
Well, I had no idea Jiu-Jitsu is that like that effective. I was so confused
Yeah, I was like someone's gonna kick him. He's fuck someone got punch him
No, like you just taking dudes to the ground that stomp and no idea of anything that they are doing
Just letting them pass guard letting them do it. Yeah, do anything. You don't know any
He's choking guys with the geek too. He's grabbing his own pose. I'm like, oh, this is wild
That's one thing I do like I got away from the geek so
From white belt to brown belt. I competed IBJJF every tournament
I could would do my way class would do absolute get the reps. I love Jiu-Jitsu, but I could probably around
2011 2012 I
Stop putting the key on you know, it was all a mixed martial arts training
Because I was getting before I would use Jiu-Jitsu to prepare for fights at a small school
I was at but when I went to American top team
I didn't need anymore because I had such high level guys on the mats at all times
I was doing Jiu-Jitsu no ghee every day
But it's been so many years since I put on a ghee and had like a Jiu-Jitsu practice man
Even the practices I do now are all no ghee. It's fun. I want to get back in the geek
Geese fun, but Eddie Bravo said it best. He goes if you were a professional tennis player
Would you practice for tennis by playing racquetball?
No, you wouldn't right you would play tennis you would do the thing that you do
If you want to get really good at MMA Jiu-Jitsu, you need to do no ghee. Yeah, and he's right
I mean ghee definitely helps as well, but you got to do no ghee
What ghee does is it teaches you that you have to be technical with your defense because you can't muscle out of things
but
The reality is like you should just be technical with no ghee for sure
That's the thing like get out of the thing like I always say that the best Jiu-Jitsu is to learn Jiu-Jitsu from a small guy
Like all technique. Yeah, like you like a bear you'll sheet a
Hoyler Gracie Eddie Bravo
Like learn Jiu-Jitsu from small people. Yeah, because they're all technique. They can't muscle out of things
Exactly learn Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu from some big giant motherfucker like their their game is gonna be so different because they're so strong. Right
but
Like look at like the Sambo guys look at the mockachives and cabebes
Like that that's the game of no ghee. That's no ghee. It's like they're they're no ghee game is
Finally polished. Yeah, finally that's it's not gonna help them to wear a ghee
Right, their game wouldn't be better like cabebes game wouldn't have been better. It's all a top
You never see this guys on their back in the yard
It's a different it's a different speed. It's Jiu-Jitsu. It's a different different game. Yeah, what they do
Small small changes on the locks like we were saying with the darts choke wrapping your forearm
They do things a little bit different man
Even their wrestling like is is different. It's not collegiate
Fundamental wrestling that you would teach at a wrestling camp
It's just chain wrestling that they kind of develop and have their own style man. It's different
It really is interesting and then you know, when I've talked to Daniel. He's like dude
I've seen could be put it on like high level amateur wrestlers in the gym put it on them
I believe it too. I mean he's just his discipline when he was in his prime man his discipline was just above and beyond
His discipline is drive is focused and there's something to be said for those guys too because they're super religious
So there's no party in there's no drinking there's no chasing women. There's no bullshit. It's just drive drive drive drive
right
You know in that collecting the legs that he does with the triangle underneath the legs when he's in mount against offense
So hard to get out everybody's doing it now, you know, the wrist ride the hand cuff he's doing everybody's doing it
Yeah, I mean, it's been really interesting to watch
Like these dominant forces come along and like sort of remap the landscape of the game, you know
And we've seen it with them especially in such a high stakes game
How do you do it that many times without catching a heel to the face without catching a knee
You know the guys he's fought so many dangerous guys. He's just
Drowned at him, you know, I know. Well, you know, Islam got caught and that one fight got knocked out. Hey drown them our teens
Mm-hmm. Yeah, right, but it just shows you as a human being
Yeah, it can happen to anyone can happen anybody and the Glacin T-Bout fight with
With Kabeeb. I feel like glacin
Oh, man
I know a lot of people always talk about that. I feel like glacin one that fight me and T-Bout have been training partners for some we beat each other up so much
He's such a fun guy, man. Oh, he's such a good dude. He's another guy like how the fuck are you 155 so much energy dude never complains about anything
He could have 50 pound weight cut smiling in the sauna just happy to be here. Just hope he just hope both teams have fun
Yeah, that's all just a happy-go guy, man
Just I watched that fight again because I was like am I talking out of school?
Should I shut the fuck up and I watch it again? I go no
I think he won was it a split? I don't remember
I don't remember if it was split, but he was stopping takedowns. Yeah, and he was a tank
That guy was a tank
He was big
He was big and jacked dude probably five eight look five seven little saucer
Maybe maybe maybe maybe I don't know. I don't know either
Skillful super skillful, you know solid striking solid jujitsu. Oh great jujitsu very good everywhere
Black belt jujitsu strongest buck and just you know, they knew from an early age because I think his middle name is Herculino
I'm serious. That's hilarious. Yeah, Herculino
Brazilians have some of the fun. Yeah, he might have eight names, you know, I bet yeah
Gleason Tiba Alves Herculino a few other things that I'm missing. Yeah, I'm serious though. Johnny Gleason. Maybe T-Bow
I don't know he has a few names
Really? Yes, yes, yes, that's hilarious man. Well at American top team and you probably have seen more elite talent come through those doors
Shout out to Dan Lampert. Well, Dan's a man that motherfucker put the money in
Put the time in when there was no money to be made. There was not that guy was he just loved it
It was a passion thing and just think it's just like what we said with the UFC
We need a rich guy to come along and just throw the money at it
Yeah, like that's what Dan did with American top team. I remember when he was putting together the the new American top team facilities
And you show me we're gonna have dorms. We don't have this mic
I was like this dude's trying to go broke like what do you do?
Dude, it's huge and that area is crazy expensive. It's only huge. I need a land. I need to get Dan in here
I know for sure. I talked to him about it before but he deserves
He deserves a credit because that guy and dude honestly like
Him building the gym and asking fighters for 5% which is you know crazy unheard of
Other gyms are taking crazy amounts, you know, he's giving you all these amenities giving you a place to stay
At one point he had houses as well
Fighter houses that he bought and he would put fighters up in the houses for camps and stuff dude
I've heard of him pain covering medical bills that
Fighters didn't have money for never getting paid back. Yeah, like all talk. He's done so much stuff man
Yeah, yeah, a good good for the sport
Amazing for the sport and if he didn't put together that super gym
Who knows how many of these super gyms would have ever evolved
Because he kind of set the blueprint for what what a gym could be
To this day that's still the best gym in the world in terms of like super gyms so much knowledge man
Right, so much knowledge so much equipment. It's so big. It's so well-made
And you never know who's gonna be on the mat at any time you walk in and do an MMA class. There's
Literally thousands of mixed martial arts about experience on the mat at any time was robby his first world champion
I was there for every camp when robby came over
I feel like it might have been like there was like everybody was like Dan Lambert deserves a world champion
Someone's got to be a world probably might have been the first dude. I think it might have been the well
I mean Mike Brown was wc. Yeah, there's been but UFC champion
UFC champion's robby lawler was number one. I remember when he came over man
Hey, how's pantoja? Do you know how is that? I don't know how the injury is but it has to be bad if they're skipping him and going with this
I know other title fight. I know
I was there like two weeks ago. I went down to help somebody's. I spent a week there. I didn't see pantoja at all
It was so nasty
But it was what was really weird was like when Megan O'Leavey was talking to us
They were saying that he dislocated his shoulder and I was like what what like what are you talking about?
Is elbow went out like I'm watching his elbow. Yeah, it looked like the elbow
No, but I think they the doctor had misspoke and I'm 99% sure that it was actually the elbow that went out because the
elbow clearly
Moves and the and it caves in and gives out right and when that happens ligaments muscles
Everything gets damaged, but I just don't know the extent. Well, it's too bad because also pantoja's older
And he's older and dominant in fly weight, which is very hard to do it sucks at any time to see a fight in like that
But especially a title fight especially a title fight especially on the streak he was on defending the belt like it just
Not just that and he's such a hard worker and such a quiet guy and just a good dude
You know, he's a fucking savage too. I think he's one of the greatest of all time the post fight Dana said something about the shoulder also
They popped his shoulder back in I thought it was the elbow
Well, it was the L says is not the elbow was his shoulder. It's his elbow as well though
It's got him that's weird. I follow posted. There was no ligament damage, but I was trying to find
Mm-hmm
So even if there's no ligament damage, there could be cartilage damage. Oh, yeah, yeah a lot of other
Anytime something bends the way it's not supposed to and soft tissues them his weight and Joshua van's weight all on one arm
Posted and that arm gives out
But damn dude when he fought that Japanese cat. Who's that guy?
ran through him when pantoja did yeah
Like he's just see how good he is when he fought Kai car France ran through him
I was like this dude is on fire right now. He's good man. He's on fire. I think pantoja's one of the best of all time and dude
Not loud not flashy quiet. He'll walk in the gym go being practiced. You won't notice him
Just working always just working. Yeah, just fucking focused just a soldier
I love to see that though man because like a few years before he was the
The well I mean the flyway champion. He was driving Uber or Uber Eats like just trying to crazy making
You know scrapping to get bills paid and you see a guy because that's what makes fighting so special though
You know like Teddy Atlas has a speech about it
But it's like where else can you be from any discipline any creed anything any walk background and call yourself the world
The champion of the world like true so powerful and any given night you can
Go against the odds and be a busted Douglas or be a yeah
Be a uberies driver and be the world champion
You know a couple years later like that's just special man fighting combat is special
It is special and it is the end all of all sports like if someone
Shoots a basket and they make a three-pointer on you you're like, okay, but I can still fuck you up
You know no one says after you fuck them up. Yeah, but I could score a basket on you. No one cares
Dude, it's like the end of all sports the end of all everything the middle the best middle school come back
Yeah, somebody can be can't beat me though. Yeah, can't beat me though. That was like they come back for anything can't beat me though
Like that's the top of the line. That's the top challenge exactly the top challenge doesn't matter if you're better at
Backgammon right
Yeah, you don't tell me but I'll beat you. Yeah, beating someone's ass is the that's the end goal
That's where all sports aspire to be. Yeah, it's combat sports
So do you have plans for stuff you want to do outside of fighting now like now that you're retired and now you're settling in
Be a good dad be a good husband. That's my that's my goals always
But I have a few other businesses, you know, I've had for years
Um, I got a document. Yeah, great hot sauce got a great hot sauce. That's hot sauce is good
Well, let's that thank you, man. It's legit poor you guys Louisiana style hot sauce. It's not white label. We made this
We developed good dude. Thank you. I'm proud of it. I'm proud of yeah, when you send it to me
I was like okay, I'll try it. I'm like oh shit. It's legit vinegar based vinegar based kind of very good
Yeah, very good hot sauce. Thank you. Yeah, I put a we tell a celery in there can tell you put some work into that
Yeah, I didn't want it to be there's so many vinegar based
Hot sauces on the shelf, you know, you get lost in that and the shelf space is so hard to get
I learned I'm learning all this business stuff as I move forward, you know
And now that I'm done fighting I get to really see where the hot sauce is because every fight every promotion
I got to talk about it and sales always around every fight
We're great, but now we're gonna level off and see what kind of stride we have. Well, it's legit man
It's I recommended highly. Thank you, man. It's very good. Besides that
I have a few businesses in Lafayette and I'm really
Getting excited to have a documentary coming out this year
The same guys who made my first documentary fightville. I don't know if you've seen it came out in 2011
It was on Netflix. I actually did a premiere here at South by Southwest
Showtime picked it up, but the same company that did that pepper and bones
Is doing my retirement documentary. So they did the whole last training camp filmed there at live in Germany
So they would fly down stay with in camp
They did the whole fight week in New Orleans
Then they came back down for Thanksgiving this recent Thanksgiving and finished up the documentary and they have hundreds of hours of footage
Unreleased from when I was 17 18 years old. Whoa, so they got the be they got the whole journey. Whoa
Just randomly this guy was filming a
War veteran who turned he was doing a him and his wife for documentary makers
And they were following this guy who just got back from
The Middle East and he happened to be a fighter and I met the guy out of fight show
I fought on he was filming the other guy for a war film
Started talking then he just man. I'm interested in you
Let me start started filming me and then dude now I have all this hundreds hours of footage for me fighting amateur
Small shows behind the scenes at my house like as a kid. Oh, that's incredible
Yeah, so we're gonna put it all into this documentary dude. That's awesome. That's amazing
Well, listen brother, whatever you do
You know, if you put the same energy that you put into becoming a great fighter
You'd be great at anything you do. That's just
The beautiful thing about doing the most difficult thing is everything else is definitely gonna be easier
I want to go back to the difficult thing. I don't want it so hard. It's so hard to let it go right
It's hard to be as like like I tell my wife. I say this a lot. I'm fucking be a civilian to go in from
Fight life every day for for so long to be in a civilian. It's like I'm relearning who I am
Maybe a couple boxing matches. Maybe the UFC let you out. I would love to do you think the UFC let you out of contract
Do you some boxing matches? Nope. I don't think so unless the pot was big enough to wear. I don't think so
This shit, but I'm not fucking fighting Floyd me whether the pot ain't gonna be big enough, right?
You know because there was a Russian company that wanted me a Nate to box
Yeah, he said no. I didn't even bring it to him area Hohani hit me up and said hey any interest in this
I have interest, but I didn't want to bring it to Hunter and Dana. I didn't want to
Ask him
Try see what happens after this. I tried to do the benefit. I tried to let's do it in zoo for boxing
Yeah, that's silly that they don't want to do any crossovers, but I get it dude
I don't know if I want any more hit trauma either Joe. Yeah. Yeah, I want to raise my son and
That's true too. That's true too. I have 50 something fights right
That's true too. Maybe just let it go
It'll never be gone
Keep it in the bag of your head just work out. It'll never be gone
I want to take I want to take care of my head
I'm gonna stop and I hope Williams there tonight. Yeah, he'll be there tonight. Oh, I didn't I didn't message him
Oh, who's there William Montgomery shout-out to William
I didn't even catch that you were saying that and when you were jumping guillotine. Oh in Miami. I never got to stop
I didn't realize that and then everybody online told me oh he he's doing William Montgomery. I was like
Oh my god, I miss that. I was 100% doing William Montgomery
But also like I give you the benefit of the doubt do my delivery was kind of bad
I wasn't the exact I was just so focused when I'm doing
post-fight interviews
I'm just always so focused in trying to get everything out of the fighter that they want to say
That's all I'm thinking of is what can I ask him that can help them better express themselves after this big victory?
You know, so it's like I was the underdog and Mike every time I went to the corners like stop
Jumping guillotine. You're giving up takedowns. You're not gonna get cut it out. Don't do it
I'm like was that the bed walls underneath ever gonna stop. Yeah. Yeah, that was a great victory too, man
That was a good one. Yeah, what the streak. He's on this agent aging will
Agent well very well. Listen brother. You're an all-time great
It's an honor so cool to have you here again. Thank you for having me and
Congratulations on an amazing career. Thank you, gentlemen
And you oh just said you're gonna kill it with it. Whatever you do
Whatever you do in life try to be cut. Let me try to do the desk work and see where that goes
Yes, and buys hot sauce. It's the jet
You heard all right. Thank you. Bye everybody
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