Life's busy.

Don't let banking slow you down.

Whether you're paying bills,

setting savings goals,

or just splitting the check.

Atlantic Union Bank makes managing your money easier.

With helpful people and user-friendly tools,

we make sure banking with us fits you.

Call, visit us online,

or drop into an Atlantic Union Bank branch today.

Atlantic Union Bank.

Anyway, you bank.

Your little one grew three inches overnight.

Adorable.

Also expensive.

Sell their pint-sized pieces on D-POP

and list them in minutes with no selling fees.

Because somewhere,

a dad refuses to pay full price

for the clothes his kid will outgrow tomorrow.

And he's ready to buy your son's entire wardrobe right now.

Consider your future growth-bird budget secured.

Start selling on D-POP

where taste recognizes taste.

Payment processing fees and boosting fees

still apply. See website for details.

Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile.

The message for everyone paying big wireless way too much.

Please, for the love of everything goodness world stop.

With Mint, you can get premium wireless

for just $15 a month.

Of course, if you enjoy overpay no judgments,

but that's weird.

Okay, one judgment.

Anyway, give it a try at MintMobile.com slash switch.

A upfront payment of $45 for three month plan,

equivalent to $15 per month required.

First three months only, then full price plan options available.

Taxes and fees extra. See full turns at MintMobile.com.

Hey, weirdo's, I'm Ash.

And I'm Elena.

And this is morbid.

You guys, who is excited to go to our love show?

Radio City.

Radio City music hall.

New York City.

We'll see you there.

Or you're a square.

Exactly. Go get your tickets. Go to ticket master.

Go to ticket master. That is the only place that we're going to lead you

because there are other sites, unfortunately,

where people can scoop up tickets and sell them for prices.

We did not approve the prices if they look crazy to you.

Yeah, if they look nuts to you, well, no.

So, one me.

Much like Shaggy.

It wasn't me.

But it's going to be fun.

It's going to be a lot of fun.

Maybe we'll do a kick line. You don't know.

We are absolutely doing a kick line.

Yeah. Absolutely.

I know. Why do you shake your head at that?

I'm positive.

I'll be sitting in the chair.

I'll do one from a chair.

Yeah, Mikey, you do one from a chair.

But Debbie's already bringing her tap shoes.

Yeah.

She's ready to go.

Exactly.

So, let's go, girls.

Let's fucking do it.

We also have a lot of fun stuff going on.

We just did.

We just recorded our bonus episode for March.

It was so fun, guys.

You're going to love it.

We had a special guest on it.

I think we already told you.

It was our book club.

It was our book club.

It was our book club.

We covered Post-Mortem by none other than Patrice.

Yeah, Cornwell.

Zee Patrice.

Our girl Patricia.

It's such a fun book.

It's the beginning of the casecar pediseries.

I loved it.

With the show coming out, this is a great place to start

because the show covers this book.

It's the first book.

At least partially does.

So definitely a cool place to look.

And it's in paperback.

It can fit in your back pocket.

It's a, it's a, it's a fittable.

It's a fittable book in your back pocket.

And it's a good one to start with.

We had Chef Riley me in on.

And we talked about all things Patricia

and all things Post-Mortem

and all things delicious food.

It's a really good episode.

I think you got it.

It's like, I love the bonus episode

because we can be a little more loosey and silly.

It was fun.

It was fun.

And we filmed that one.

That one's on actual video.

Yes.

So you're going to get to watch it as well.

Which is fun.

We're going to try to do that every now and again for you.

Yeah, we're going to do it as much as we possibly can.

It's easier with like bonus episodes

because like, you know, the content is a little more palatable

for a looser.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, and also if you're looking for more books

to satisfy your craving for knowledge.

Yeah, I like know this girl who wrote a few books.

Do you know her?

I do.

And you can get the Butcher Legacy at ButcherLegacy.com.

It was a really unusual opportunity for you to sit for

for you to not say I am her.

I thought that was implied.

But I did.

Yes, but I wish you had stood on business with her.

I am her.

Thank you.

Stand on the business.

Go get it.

Go get it.

Go pre-ordered.

It's coming out August 11th.

It's pretty.

You know, who thinks it's great?

Tell me.

Patricia Cornwell.

I knew that.

So I'm going to be insufferable about that for the rest of my life.

As you should be.

Yup.

Going to do that.

So Patricia read it.

She liked it.

She thinks.

She thinks Kay and Ren could be BFFs.

She thinks that it's the beesmees.

I can lay down and pass over to the other side now.

I won't.

But I say what I could to do.

So don't do that, please.

So there's that.

And you can, you know, when the paperback comes out,

which it won't come over a little while,

you can stick that in your back pocket with Postmortem.

Oh, my God.

You guys have a lot going on in your pockets.

So many back pocket.

You guys are going to need those, those like utility pants.

You really are.

Get some cargo pants.

Yeah.

You can try tons of books in there.

Yeah.

Just throw them in there.

Yeah.

If you're a mood reader, that's the dream.

Yeah.

You just, you always have something.

You never know what you're doing.

So let's talk.

I'm a mood reader.

I'm a mood reader.

I got that.

Yup.

Just throwing this out there since we're talking about books.

I just finished memorials by Richard Chismar,

who also likes the butcher legacy.

And another one.

Another one.

I love Richard Chismar.

And memorials blew my fucking socks off.

Wow.

Go read that book.

Okay.

Go read that book.

Go read that book.

Okay.

I finished, I finished listening to it on the way home the other day.

And I was in the car by myself.

And at one point, I went holy shit.

Oh, wow.

I go read that book.

I'm telling you, it's an awesome book.

It's like Appalachia horror.

Oh, fuck.

He does suburban horror.

I mean, on the front cover, Stephen King blurbed his book

and said, no one does suburban horror like Richard Chismar.

And I fully agree with my friend, Stephen.

Wow.

What a feather in your cap.

What a...

What a feather to say that.

Can you imagine?

No.

I don't think Stephen would say that about me.

Good for Richard.

So I can't put my...

I can't put Richard shoes on in that one.

I think that one.

I'm not sure.

I'm not quite sure what Stephen would say about me.

But maybe someday we'll find out.

Stephen, tell us.

Stephen let us know.

Tell us about us.

Stephen.

Come on the show.

Hey, Stephen.

So yeah.

But he's right.

So if you're looking for like a cool suburban horror

with some Appalachia shit in it,

that's going to literally make you scream at the end.

Yes.

I'm telling you, memorials by Richard Chismar.

I love that.

I just finished it.

So I just want to tell you all.

So I'm telling you about it.

And you know what else I want to tell you?

Yeah.

So let's talk about the Lynneburg baby kidnapping today.

Oh shit.

Oh shit.

One of our most requested cases.

Yep, people have been dying for this one.

Like since we started the show.

Yeah, and I'm shocked that we just never covered it.

Yeah, that's actually very surprising.

For some reason I think I thought we had.

But I know we haven't.

I know we haven't.

We definitely covered it on like crime countdown and stuff.

I think we talked about it.

And I think we talked about it like very briefly

when we did the, was it the Sumner Children's.

Yeah.

I think we definitely have mentioned it.

It's come up.

Yeah, I mean, if you talk about your crime, it comes up.

Yeah, it's a big case.

It's one of the biggest kidnapping cases,

and one of the big cases, really, in American history.

But just, we just want to be clear here that like,

I guess there has been some things

that have come out about Charles Lindbergh

that have definitely tarnished his,

his once like all American spotless reputation, I would say.

So I just want to be clear that like,

that sucks, that he's not great.

Yeah, he's pretty fucking terrible.

But we just wanted to cover the case

because one, you guys have requested it forever for years

and two, it's a fascinating case about a baby.

Right, it's not about, it's not about Charles Lindbergh.

It's not about Charles Lindbergh at the end of the day.

Yeah, it's not about, at the end of the day,

it's about what happened to his son.

Yeah, so, but yeah, we just wanted to make that,

but that has come to our attention through like researching this

and like, we just wanted to mention it.

So it's, he's definitely got a tarnished reputation for sure.

Yeah, which I wasn't aware of until recently.

Same.

But yeah, we're gonna, it's a crazy case.

The more you know.

And we will be getting a little more

into probably his tarnished reputation in part two, I would say,

when we're talking about like theories and shit.

Okay, cool.

So we will like touch upon it more,

but we just wanted to put that out there.

All right, yeah.

So let's go, show me to me, Rachel.

Am I dumb or is this unsolved?

No, it's solved.

I would have solved that.

There's somebody that was caught.

But there is some mystery surrounding it though.

Okay, so that's, that's something interesting.

And the whole thing is just very spooky,

the way it all happened and still doesn't make a lot of sense.

Yeah.

I knew there was like weird elements to this.

There's definitely weird elements to it.

So we're gonna start with who Charles Lindberg was

because the whole thing around this is that Charles Lindberg

was a very well known man.

Yeah.

So Charles Augustus Lindbergh,

he was born February 4th, 1902.

What is he?

Is he a Pisces?

I gotta get better at this.

If my teacher's listening right now,

she's like, are you fucking kidding?

I gotta get better at this.

February 4th.

People don't want me to get better at this.

They like hearing you say the thing.

Aquarius.

Aquarius.

I'm so bad at this.

So he's an Aquarius.

He was born in Detroit, Michigan.

He was the only child born to Evangeline

and Charles Lindbergh scene.

Names were just better back then.

Evangeline and Charles had Charles Jr.

Oh my God.

Evangeline.

I would never fuck with a bitch named Evangeline.

What a name.

Yeah.

It just makes me think of Princess of the Frog

when Raymo is singing about his Evangeline.

I know.

I haven't seen that in a while.

We gotta watch it.

I know I do wanna watch it

because the girls say that I'm like one of the characters.

You're Lottie.

Yeah.

I'll take it.

Lottie is awesome.

I know her.

Yeah, Lottie is the best.

But he grew up on a small farm

in rural Little Falls, Minnesota.

And Lindberg remembered his childhood

as pretty idealic.

Nice.

And a pretty great childhood.

Well, the mom named Evangeline.

How could it not be?

He said, I spent hours lying on my back

and high Timothy and red top hidden from passerby.

White cumulus clouds drift overhead

staring into the sky.

Damn.

That's fucking poetic as hell.

But however, you know, charming and beautiful

those early years were,

it's not like they didn't have like some difficulty in them.

In 1905, when Charles was just three years old,

the family farm burned to the ground.

Three years later, his parents separated.

Evangeline and Charles.

Which was very uncommon, I feel.

Yeah.

And Charles would end up living the rest of his childhood

with his mother.

OK.

Did he see his dad?

He did.

So they relocated to Washington DC after the divorce.

So he really only saw his dad kind of like sporadically,

which definitely probably had like an influence

on how he parented later.

Yeah.

But for most of his adult life,

Charles Lindbergh was an American icon.

That's part of this case.

Like people know who he is.

He was an American icon,

but he's a tarnished American icon now with what we know.

Things that have come out over time.

He was an aviation guy.

Yeah.

That's the technical term for it.

Yeah, of course.

Aviation guy, a aviator.

He had this ability to take control of his own narrative.

OK.

Which I think a lot of people that are successful

for better or worse in life,

they do have the courage to take control of their own narrative

and could frame themselves a certain way.

So he would frame himself as very heroic.

He was just really good at kind of putting that out there.

That's also very aquarium in nature.

Oh, there you go.

Yeah.

I mean, reporters, the American people,

they're all very happy to accept this narrative as well.

And it's not that he lied about his past or anything like that.

But given the choice between just bland reality

and like a little embellishment,

he probably picked a little embellishment.

Like Attsby.

He had a very Gatsby-esque way about him.

I think he would kind of overstate the facts.

He would minimize inconvenient truths.

Like, for example, when speaking of his family life

after his parents divorced, he wrote,

they continued to care for each other,

although they were seldom together.

And it's possible that that's how he remembered things.

But they cared for each other.

They just weren't together a lot.

But historian Stanley Shapiro kind of challenges

that for part of his history.

He said his father was a stern man

imbued with righteous populism.

The parental expectations placed upon young Limburg were severe.

So this like, I deal like parent kind of situation

like father, it might not have been like totally true.

But who knows, that's what he believes.

Yeah, and what it's also like you got to listen

to the actual part.

It's his reality.

So regardless of how they treated one another

on the occasions that they were together,

his parents' attitudes and expectations of their son

were definitely at odds.

Yeah.

In the eyes of Evangeline, Charles could do absolutely no wrong.

Just perfect child kind of like showered him

with attention and affection.

Like it's currently also.

And so Shapiro wrote, she lavished attention on Charles,

leaving little room in his adolescent life

for anything else.

Yeah, that's right.

Charles Sr., on the other hand,

was very rigid in his beliefs

and how he presented himself to the world.

He was a U.S. congressman from 1907 to 1917.

Wow.

And he stressed that his son's,

and I don't think this is terribly bad, outlook.

He, so he really wanted his son to embody

the principles of stoicism.

Okay.

Like be unshakable.

Yeah.

And he encouraged him to be among other things,

thrifty, self-sufficient, and intensely private.

Which I think he learned from his own career

in politics.

He was a congressman.

He's like, this is what I've got.

I don't think those are necessarily bad.

I think he was probably a little overbearing with it.

So the last one could be shaky.

Yeah.

But according to Shapiro,

the conflicting messages that he got from his parents

left him like in this like weird paradox

of like not understanding what he was supposed to be.

Because those are two very opposite

and he's a spectra of him.

Because his mom's like, you're a star.

You're the best.

Everybody should know how amazing you are

and his dad's like, be so fucking private in the snowy.

Like, and he's like, what?

What?

He's like, can I find a middle ground perhaps?

So he had this like deep desire for fame

because he was like, I can achieve it.

Like, I know it.

And he wanted recognition as well.

But he also wanted to demand privacy for himself.

Which is tough.

Yeah.

So as a result of his father's career in politics

and his mother's desire to provide her son

for literally everything she could, any opportunity,

Charles spent his youth bouncing from one school

to another, eventually attending more than a dozen

before graduating from Little Falls High School in 1918.

From there, he enrolled at the University of Wisconsin

Madison where he studied engineering.

Oh, wow.

Smart guy.

But he dropped out in the middle of his sophomore year

because he wanted to pursue an interest in aviation.

Okay.

Which ended up being a good plan.

Yeah.

After leaving the University of Wisconsin,

he enrolled at the Nebraska Aircraft Corporation's

Flying School in Lincoln, Nebraska.

Matt, you're just going to flying school.

Yeah, just becoming an ABA.

And being an ABAater, like, I'm going to talk about it,

was like, such a badass thing.

Oh, yeah.

I had such a, like, a mystique to it.

Yeah.

But he started learning the basics of aircraft maintenance

and would eventually learn how to pilot an airplane.

It's at this time that his heroic biography starts to take shape.

Like this is where it all kind of began.

In 1924, after just two years in Nebraska,

he enlisted in the National Guard

and eventually became captain of the Missouri National Guard.

From there, he continued his aviation career.

He took a job with the Postal Service

where he would fly mail back and forth between

St. Louis, St. Louis, and Chicago.

Now, although air travel is very common place today,

you look up in the sky right now.

It's not going so well, but it's not going swimmingly right now.

It's very common.

There was a time when the possibility of traveling by airplane

was completely off limits to anyone

outside of the military.

That's crazy.

Yeah, it wasn't until 1914 that commercial air travel

was made available to the public.

And even then, it was so expensive

that it prohibited most people from being able to.

And it was very, very limited

and where you could actually travel by plane.

I'm sure, yeah.

Those restrictions, and the truly,

I mean, even now, flying is remarkable.

It's magic.

I try not to think about it too much when I'm in the air.

But among land, I think about it a lot.

It's remarkable.

And especially then, it made air travel

at that time, especially seemed so exciting

and adventurous to the American public.

It really was that like, I must go flying through the sky.

So the role of it, the aviator was romantic.

It was dangerous.

It was, and it was commanding respect.

Well, it's kind of hot.

Yeah, I mean, truly, you're flying.

You're flying.

You're flying a goddamn plane.

You're soaring, you're flying.

The amount of pilots I follow, not because they're hot,

but because, like I should be clear about that,

men and women, but not because they're hot.

They're, hey, they're all hot in some way

because they're flying a plane through the sky.

So that's pretty amazing.

That's a hot quality.

But I love following pilots

because they make me feel better about flying.

Yeah.

And like, who does to them for taking a second

to make me feel better about flying?

Honestly.

But to a man like Charles Limberg,

with his deep interest in mechanical engineering

and this desperate need for fame and recognition.

It was perfect.

It wasn't as surprised that he was drawn to this field enough.

In the 1920s and 30s,

as aviation technology was advancing,

air shows and flying competitions

just exploded in popularity.

Hoppa loves an air show.

He does.

Loves an air show.

Loves it.

Heard's my name.

I've been to so many air shows.

Me too.

That's a good one.

And while some air shows focused on aviators

and others performing like super daring stunts,

that was very cool.

Wind, wingwalking, barnstorming.

Barnstorming, I looked it up,

is they would fly to a field.

Like they would essentially just land in a field

where like a barn field kind of thing.

And they would take off and start doing these crazy stunts,

like just storming the barn kind of thing.

Like it was named like that.

The show used to be so cool.

It was like looking like walking while it was flying.

Yeah, shot up.

Oh yeah.

Wingwalking is crazy, if you look at videos.

Why?

Yeah.

It's not to see that.

So other competitions,

so they would do like these daring stunts,

but other competitions focused on the more technical aspects

of aviation, like long distance flights

that emphasized the potential of flying,

what could be the future.

It was during this time as a pilot for the postal service

that Lindbergh became interested in these flying competitions

and eventually became convinced he could fucking win one.

Let's fucking go.

Get me in there.

In the mid-1920s, a winning pilot would not just

walk away with a large sum of money.

He would also earn insane respect and admiration

and fame all over the world.

In 1927, Charles was determined to enter this one particular

competition.

It was being promoted by Raymond Ortig,

the French American hotel magnet.

Ortig was offering $25,000, and this is in 1927.

To the first pilot to successfully complete a nonstop flight

across the Atlantic from New York to Paris.

Scary.

Now, that spring, Lindbergh found financial backing

from several businessmen in St. Louis, St. Louis.

And on May 27th, 1927, he took off from the Roosevelt field

in Long Island, New York, Long Island.

In the decade since Lindbergh's successful flight,

this story has been told and retold so many times.

According to Stanley Shapiro, no opposing version

can prevail against it.

So it's just, this was a badass.

Is what it is.

The facts are pretty difficult to dispute.

He did it like you.

And the whole thing is so romantic and dangerous

and as a mystique to it, that it also

gives you a little insight into how he just

rocketed the fame out of this.

Now, at the time, Charles was 25 years old.

So as Shapiro points out, he looked much younger than that

as well, like he had a very useful appearance.

A bit of this.

And he was frequently referred to in the press as a boy,

not a man, which I'm like, he's 25.

Yeah, let's call him a man.

Let's not refer to him.

Let's not infantilize him.

Yeah, that's a little weird.

In Lindbergh was young, obviously, but 25

is still a grown man.

And he was conventionally handsome.

And he was also said to have lived a very chased life.

He avoided drinking, he didn't smoke,

and he wasn't like a womanizer.

Basically, in like pretty simple terms,

he was like an ideal role model for young Americans

of the time.

The fact that he would take on such a magical, incredible,

remarkable, dangerous journey like that,

everyone saw it as this perfect metaphor

for the indomitable American spirit of time.

Because that was the time when it was like,

you're really looking for those kind of symbols.

And Lindbergh's receipt of the prize

made him an instant celebrity.

And when he landed in Paris at the end of the whole thing,

a crowd of more than 150,000 people lifted him out

of the cockpit of the police.

Wow.

He basically just like crowdsurfed over a car,

like, over like a carman.

Hello, Paris.

The spirit of St. Louis St. Louis was the name of his plane.

And it reportedly carried him on their shoulders

for almost 30 minutes.

Here's a picture.

Yeah, it's the almost 30 minutes.

According to Shapiro, it was the romance of Lindbergh's,

quote, boy hero.

And Shapiro points out that a lot of like the Lindbergh

romance kind of thing resides in his underdog status.

Yeah.

He certainly did not have the credentials

of his competitors or their elaborate,

expensive organizations that outsider status

pretty much inspired much of the newspaper coverage.

Because again, like he was just this random guy.

Yeah.

Like he's just entering it.

Like he said, and he had to get backing

from like a bunch of other people to do this.

Right.

So to a certain extent, Charles Lindbergh

had always believed all the overwhelming praise

and adulation that had been heaped on him by his mother.

Yeah.

Like a good thing in a way.

Like you want to, well, yeah, that's the whole reason

is mom raised a confident, self-assured kid, you know?

Absolutely.

And of course, he had a little bit of an overinflated

self-esteem thing going on that happens.

But honestly, like stupid confidence sometimes

will get you really far.

I think so.

Like, you know, like sometimes I have stupid confidence

and look at you.

Sometimes I have incredible imposter syndrome.

I am never neutral.

Well, I think totally imposter syndrome

or stupid confidence.

I think a lot of successful people have that.

They're just like, say, make up.

Like there's not a middle ground.

Yeah, like I'm never just coasting.

It makes sense, like, especially that he didn't have

a middle ground because like we were just saying,

like his mom really boosted him and his dad

not like didn't not boost him or get him

like to stoic be private.

Yeah, but was telling him the opposite thing.

Yeah, it makes so much sense.

Yeah.

But his successful flight across the Atlantic

and the newfound fame that came with it,

it really only strengthened his belief

that he was special and he was destined for great things,

which if I fly across the Atlantic, I'd be insufferable.

With dozens of notifications you get on your phone a day,

it's easy to become desensitized to them.

But if that latest pain is from your security camera,

ignoring it could spell disaster.

Picture this.

Somebody's breaking in, but you're at the movies

or you're on a flight.

You'll see the footage in a couple hours,

but by then it's too late.

Here's the good news though.

SimplySafe's active guard outdoor protection

can help prevent breakings before they even happen.

It's a customizable whole home security system

back 24, seven monitoring agents you can rely on

to act even when you can't.

I'm a personal user of SimplySafe and I love it.

I have all of the cameras around my house.

I have the little like keypad that you arm every night,

arm stay, arm away.

You can actually set it up the keypad.

One thing I love is if you have a pet sitter

or a babysitter or something like that,

you can give them a special code.

That's different from your house code.

I just love that.

I think it's super easy to use.

If you forgot to arm the system when you leave,

you can do everything from the app.

And if you're away on vacation,

you can check in on the app to get a little comfort

while you're away.

Right now our listeners can get 50% off their new

SimplySafe system at simplysafe.com slash morbid.

That's simplysafe.com slash morbid.

There's no safe, like simply safe.

This time of year gets so busy, guys.

It's bonkers, it's bananas.

We all know this.

It's hard to make time for myself,

let alone time for an entire workout.

It's just not happening, but it is.

Breaks are the busiest time of the year

with the new Peloton cross-training thread plus

powered by Peloton IQ designed to make

every single minute count.

Peloton IQ personalizes your workouts,

tracks progress, corrects form and gives real time insights

to help you hit goals faster, key word,

with the swivel screen switched from a 45 minute run

to a five minute stretch in one little spin.

It's cross-training, re-imagined for busy schedules.

Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push, and go.

Explore the new Peloton cross-training thread plus

at onepeloton.com.

Yeah, yeah.

Barrio.

I don't know if you guys know, but I'm obsessed

with my dog, her name's Dolores Catania.

She means so much to me and her health is obviously

one of the most important priorities in my life.

Listen, guys, Kibble is ultra-processed.

Why would I give that to Dolores if I wouldn't eat it?

Just food for dogs is real food made

with 100% human grade ingredients.

No preservatives, no fillers, balanced and healthy.

I can literally see the real meat and veggies

when I'm spooning it onto her dish.

It's the number one vet-recommended fresh dog food.

If your dog has digestive issues, skin issues,

seems low energy, give just food for dogs a try.

There's also a shelf-stable option called just-fresh

that is super convenient and can go with you

and your dog wherever you go, no cooler or fridge necessary.

My dolo is picky AF.

She doesn't want to want to eat anything.

We gave her the just food for dogs,

and that girl he was hopping up on the counter

ready to eat it right then and there.

It also seems like her coat has gotten a lot softer

since she's been eating it.

I don't know, maybe it's just for me.

She's so adorable, she loves just food for dogs.

It's just food for dolo.

Get 50% off your first order at JustFoodForDogs.com.

No code needed.

And now in the wake of his flight,

Charles signed endorsement deals.

Like that was like a thing.

Wow.

With mobile oil, vacuum oil.

I love advertising just always being a thing.

Yeah, it's always, always an endorsement.

And a lot of other companies

and sold the exclusive rights to his story

to the New York Times for over $1 million.

Wow.

Which now would be like insane money.

Outrageous.

I mean, $1 million isn't saying money anyways.

But it would be astronomical.

Now in December 1927, he accompanied

his financial advisor Dwight Morrow on a trip

to which is such a financial advisor name.

I know, Dwight Morrow, yeah.

He went with him on a trip to Mexico

that would change his life in a lot of ways.

At the time, Dwight Morrow was an executive with JP Morgan.

Oh, I've heard him.

I've ever heard of him.

Yeah, don't touch the Morgan letters.

That's the New York Housewives.

That's a great one, you should watch it.

Watch that.

Absolutely.

So good.

But he, so he was an executive with JP Morgan

and the US ambassador to Mexico.

And when they landed in Mexico,

Linberg and Morrow were greeted by a crowd

of over 150,000 enthusiastic people.

He's like the original Beatles.

Yeah, all hoping to get a look at this American hero.

And among them was Morrow's daughter, Anne,

who derived a few days late.

Earlier.

Now, Anne took an immediate liking to Charles, of course.

Yeah, duh.

But he did to her as well.

Now, at the time, Anne was attending Smith College

and wanted to be a writer.

Hell yeah.

And she was like, I'm not focused on marriage.

Like, I'm looking to get my career going.

Oh, honey, we love the career focus theme.

And the same could be said for Charles,

who after winning that prize, the Ortee Prize,

he received more than 100,000 marriage proposals.

That's 100,000 marriage.

Proposal women.

I love you.

We have to get to know a man before we propose marriage.

We don't know.

He could be so many different things.

Exactly.

And some of them could be fantastic

and some of them not so much.

And that's why we date.

Yeah.

We can't just propose marriage to Charles Linberg

after he wins the prize.

That's a little cool, cool.

Yeah.

But he later wrote in his autobiography.

I'd always taken for granted that someday I would marry

and have a family of my own.

But I had not thought much of it.

He said, I mean, he's 25.

Yeah.

He said, in fact, I had never been enough interested

in any girl they even asked her to go on a date.

Wow.

I think he was just so focused on his own shit.

He just wasn't.

He was like, Ann.

Yeah.

Ann was focused on her shit.

And she was like, I got time.

I wanted to worry about that.

Yeah.

He was the same way.

He was like, I'm not worried about that.

Let's go.

Now, despite what seems like their respective

disinterested movements at this point,

they hit it off immediately.

Well, sometimes they will win for each other.

Well, that's a thing.

I think your universe, sometimes the universe

leads you to your person like that.

I think that's what it was.

When you're ready to drop them together.

And soon, they were dating exclusively.

And Ann later wrote in her diary,

the man I was to marry believed in me and what I could do.

And consequently, I found I could do more than I realized.

On May 27, 1929, they married in a small, simple ceremony.

It was at her family's estate in New Jersey.

A little over a year later, the couple's first child,

Charles Jr. was born on Ann's 24th birthday.

Stop it.

June 22, 1930.

So to everyone on the outside looking in,

they appeared to be living the American dream.

So the Limburgs were already one of the nation's most

famous couples by the time Charles Jr. was born.

Makes sense.

And his birth was just one more reason for them to,

you know, America's favorite couple at this point

to appear on newspapers, all like covers around the globe.

Everywhere they went, reporters weren't far behind.

Snapping photos, reporting on their activities,

no matter how mundane they were,

it was very much the paparazzi of like, your.

He's not adhering to that rule as dad taught them.

No.

So when Charles and Ann began construction

on their new home in Hopewell, New Jersey,

not far from Ann's parents in Englewood,

the press couldn't get enough of it.

Let people live private lives, like truly.

Let people live with a kid to be private.

And when they have a kid, like kids, leave them alone.

Now, built on 339 acres.

I'm sorry.

What?

339 acres.

I can't even conceive of that.

Like just a forest.

I thought two was a lot.

Yeah.

Damn, acreage.

It's a lot.

It's so expensive.

Do you know how much acreage costs?

Yeah, acreage is serious.

acreage is a fucking concept.

Acres fucking A.

And it was a remote land in a forested area of Hopewell.

So it's very remote, very away from it.

Which like love but hate.

It's a double-edged sword.

The Lindbergh house was to be kind of a compound

where Ann and Charles could grow their family

and live out the rest of their days together.

And among other things, there was plenty of room

for a literal runway.

Plane runway.

They had over 300 acres.

So there was plenty of room for it.

And he intended to build one.

He was gonna have a runway.

It just breaks my heart.

Cause like you wish that they got to live out.

Like their actual parenting dream.

Like obviously it just don't go to plan.

Like now you just don't know what it would have been.

Like what would that kid's life have been?

Yeah.

And then your life hasn't family have been.

And you're left just asking those exact questions forever.

It's just a bummer.

Like a real bummer.

It's a tragedy.

And also this place had limited access to cars coming in.

Which was great for privacy.

So it was that fun little.

But construction on the house began in summer of 1930

and was pretty complete when Charles and Ann decided

to begin staying at the house overnight.

In February of 1932.

At first they would only spend their weekends

at the house in Inglewood.

But where otherwise living with Ann's parents

at their house nearby.

And March 1st, which was a Tuesday,

was the first weekday the family spent the night

at the new house.

Okay.

This kidnapping happens on the first weekday

that they spent at this house.

They had not spent a weekday there before.

That's interesting.

Now a few days earlier,

Charles Jr. the Bebe.

Had been sick with a light cold.

And by the morning of March 1st,

it looked like Ann had gotten the cold.

Because of course, she was always assuming

she would need some help with the baby

and called their nurse made Betty Gal

and asked her to come to the Inglewood estate that morning.

So Betty spent the day helping Ann around the house.

And around 7.30 p.m.,

she started getting Charles Jr. ready for bed.

That night, Betty dressed Charles Jr. in a flannel shirt

that she'd made for the afternoon.

Dipers, rubber pants in a one piece

Dr. Denton's sleep suit.

So cute.

Ann also plays Hans' question mark.

They were a thing, I guess.

Really?

Back then, yeah, like rubber sheets,

but like rubber pants.

For like no leakage.

Would probably be so fucking uncomfortable.

Absolutely, I'm sure it was awful.

Yeah.

I'm not saying she didn't even know.

Yeah, they said no idea.

I'm just like holy fuck.

But Ann also plays thumb guards on each thumb

to prevent Charles from sucking his thumb.

That was a thing.

Really?

And she wrapped strings around the guards

and secured them to the sleeves of the outfit,

so they wouldn't fall off.

Oh.

Yeah, that was like, it's very interesting

how they would put babies to sleep, though.

Yeah.

Well, it, honestly, it's changed so much

and so frequently from like then 10 hours.

Like with sids and everything, like so different.

Because then once he was placed in the crib,

he was covered with a blanket

that Betty then pinned to the mattress

with two large safety pins.

Oh, that's interesting.

Which like keeps them in place.

Yeah.

So they can't like roll around.

That's mother of themselves.

Exactly.

Now, she was doing the damn thing.

She did the damn thing.

Now, although it's still pretty cold outside

and cracked the window just a little bit

just before leaving the room to let some fresh air circulate.

Yeah, cold.

Because he had a cold.

She was burping the room.

Yeah.

She was burping, that's weird.

That's weird.

That's weird.

That's weird.

We were literally just talking about it this morning.

And what is it?

It's a, oh, what was, it's a German word.

Loftin.

Loftin.

Loftin.

And it's, it means like airing out the house.

Yeah.

Like you just like open up the windows.

Yeah, you literally let the house play.

I like that.

So that's what she was doing, letting the room burp.

Yeah.

Now, Charles arrived like, like big Charles arrived home

that evening for all the big Charles.

He came over on 8.30, at 8.30 pm.

And after, he had attended a meeting

at Pan American Airways, the offices in New York earlier.

I mean, he's doing big things.

He had been scheduled to appear as the guest of honor

at a dinner held by New York University that evening.

But because of an issue with scheduling,

he decided he was too overbooked, and he was like,

so he skipped the dinner and he was like,

I just want to go home.

That's nice that he just wanted to be with his family.

Because like, he kids sick.

He's just like, you know what I'm saying?

It is white the sick now.

After coming home, he had dinner with Ann

while the handful of staff in the house,

including Betty.

The nurse made retired to their homes for the evening.

Okay.

Now, Ann and Charles finished dinner a little after 9 pm.

And they were sitting in the living room together.

When Charles heard a noise, he later described as

the top slats of an orange box falling off a chair,

which I assumed to be in the kitchen.

Okay.

So I'm assuming he's just thinking like a box of oranges,

like a, oh, oh, oh.

Like a wooden box, like a crate.

He was actually like the top slat falling off.

I'm real dumb in this moment.

I was picturing an orange colored box.

I was like, what the, was that okay?

I'm like, how did he know that?

He was like, he hears colors.

What does that sound like?

He's just, but he asked Ann whether she heard the sound

and she was like, no, I didn't hear anything.

Okay.

And this is where I'm just a complete crazy person

because if I hear a slight, no,

and I'm not saying he did anything wrong,

we'd be clear about this.

I'm just saying I am sick.

Yeah.

If I'm just saying I have a fucking problem.

The amount of times that my kids, when they go to sleep,

they always have books in their bed.

And one of my kids loves to draw before bed or like color.

Yeah.

And so she'll have like markers or like a pad of paper

or like a coloring one without fail.

They will slide off the bed at some point

and slam on the ground and it makes the same sound

every time we know that's what it is.

And John always knows, he's like that

is just their book falling off.

I have to run upstairs and check.

Oh yeah.

Something in my brain is like, don't let that be the one time

something happened.

No, it's true.

And even though it's like, it's a sickness,

but whatever.

I think that's actually OCD.

Is it?

I think that's a form of OCD.

Interesting.

Because I literally am like, if I don't go up there and check,

it's going to be the one time that something happened

that I didn't check.

That's literally the definition of OCD.

Interesting.

You should have that checked out.

I'm learning a lot of things about myself lately.

But you might, that's one of those things.

There's a form of OCD that's related

to becoming a parent.

Oh yeah, that makes sense.

She's the shag off it for a minute.

Oh okay.

I'm not laughing.

I'm just saying like that.

We're letting it back to Vanderpump rules, of course.

But yeah, I wonder if you have that.

That'd be interesting.

I should talk to my doctor about it.

I mean, sometimes moms are just like, you're just insane.

Yeah.

And as you should be.

Yeah.

Like it's like full on.

Like you feel crazy.

Yeah.

No, often times when they stay at my house, I can't sleep.

Yeah.

It's literally is one of those things.

Yeah.

Like I am.

Look at me just saying often times.

Often.

The way I introduce that.

Yeah.

Wow.

I like that.

I feel better than everybody now.

I like that a lot.

Often times.

You know what?

Often times.

I might say scars.

But I also say often times.

You might.

Anyway, we let you live.

Thank you.

Cheers to living.

Cheers to living.

Okay.

I picked up.

I drink at the perfect time.

Cheers to scars.

Cheers to scarcing.

And to St. Louis St. Louis.

Cheers.

We literally both.

Are we all right?

We're not.

We're not.

We're drinking our little.

Our daughter.

Because we're having a be in our holy pop.

Having.

Soapy pop.

Oh, but I can do it.

So yeah.

So you know, that was a weird break.

That was just the sound.

That was just me letting you guys know that I'm like a cuckoo nut man.

I got it.

I run upstairs and it's always their book on the floor.

Yeah.

But so Anne was like, yeah, I didn't hear anything.

So again, that's also him being like, oh, maybe I just heard something I didn't.

Yeah.

And they've got an entire staff in the house.

So like noises are probably pretty pretty in the house at night.

Now about an hour later as Charles and Anne were getting ready to bed.

For bed, Betty decided to check on the baby one final time before going to bed herself.

So she lived in the house?

Yeah.

She was like, you know what?

I'm going to bed.

Like it was like a living staff, like you said.

But she was like, I'm just going to check on the baby one more time.

She checked on him about 45 minutes after putting him in the crib.

But she was like, he was sleeping soundly.

But he's been sick lately.

So like, I just want to do another check.

So the lights were off.

The room was pretty dark when she went in there.

Like, she left it.

And as soon as she walks through the door, she was like, wow, it's a lot colder in here than I thought it would be.

And she's like, so she's like, maybe, I don't know.

Like, I didn't think I had opened it very wide.

And she looks in the windows open wider than she remembered, leaving it.

Which my heart is beating out of my chest right now.

The pit in my stomach that I feel in that one sentence of like, it was open wider than she left it.

Yeah.

Is deep.

I also can't imagine how I don't know how this all shakes out.

So let me just say, I can't imagine how this poor woman fought in this moment.

Because she did nothing wrong.

She did nothing wrong, but that's not your child.

So you're immediately like the guilt would be like, you must feel that fault.

Yeah.

Unbelievable.

So she goes to close the window.

And she's like, that's it.

And I think, and actually, I shouldn't have said she realized that it was much wider than she left it.

She actually didn't realize it.

She just went to close the window.

And she said, at the time, it didn't register to her, but it was wider.

She's like, but I just didn't click at first because I think your brain doesn't want to believe it.

But feeling the cold, she immediately was like, something's weird.

It shouldn't be this cold in here.

So after closing the window, she turns around to the crib and she was going to turn on a heater in the room.

But in her eyes are like adjusting to the dark at this point.

And so she said, I couldn't really see into the crib very well because again, my eyes are adjusting.

And she's like, but so I didn't really strike her as odd that she couldn't see him right away.

But she said what struck her is she couldn't hear him breathing.

Okay.

Like a little baby breath.

And also he's sick.

So they're probably wrapped up probably.

So she's like, so I reached my hand into the crib.

And she said she could feel the covers that she had placed over him.

But there was no baby.

Oh, fuck.

So she, this is my worst fucking day here.

So she's trying not to panic because she's like, okay.

So she's like, maybe the parents got exactly I'm going to go down to Ann and Charles.

Maybe Ann took the baby into her room because you don't want to go worst case scenario.

Yeah.

So she calls out to Ann and she's like, hey, do you have the baby?

And Ann anxiously replied, no, I don't.

So now concerned, Betty went downstairs to see if Charles senior had the baby.

Well, Ann double checked the nursery.

But within moments it was clear.

No, we have a stop there.

As Ann and Betty tore through the house looking for the baby, Charles ran upstairs into the nursery to double check himself.

Everything appeared perfectly normal in the baby's room except for the fact that there was no baby in there.

In the crib, he said the blanket was still secured to the mattress with safety pins like someone.

And he said the impression of the baby's head was still in the pillow.

And he said it was as though someone had carefully lifted him out of the crib trying not to disturb anything.

So he realizes that now my son's been taken.

Yeah.

And so he went to the adjoining room and he grabbed his rifle from the closet.

With Ann and Betty falling close behind him.

And when they returned to the nursery again, he noticed the small white envelope resting on the windowsill.

Stop.

That Betty hadn't seen it.

Oh, mother fucker.

I hate this.

There was nothing written on the outside of the envelope.

But inside there was a note.

And it said, dear sir, have $50,000 ready?

$2,500 in $20 bills, $1,510 bills, and $10,000 in $5 bills.

After two to four days, we will inform you where to deliver the money.

It's all spelled wrong, by the way.

We warn you for making anything public or for the police.

The child is in good care.

Indication for all letters, our signature, and three holes.

What?

No idea.

Now by that time, the entire household was awake.

All the staff was awake and alert to what was going on.

Charles took one final look around the nursery, but nothing was out of the ordinary other than that letter.

So he instructed everyone to remain as calm as possible.

And he insisted no one touched anything in this nursery.

Then he went to the phone and called his lawyer, Colonel Henry Breckenridge,

in then he called the New Jersey State Police.

So when Lieutenant's done and born men received the call from Lindbergh,

the two officers first instinct was that this is a prank.

This is not Charles Lindbergh.

Like this is someone calling to do this.

But that's a bad first instinct.

And then they called the number back.

And it was the Lindbergh house that answered.

So they were like, buck.

After providing the officers with all the information,

Charles hung up the phone and went outside rifle and hand to search for his son.

Now in the yard, just underneath the nursery window,

Lindbergh and one of the staff, Ali Wheatley,

found what would be the most important piece of evidence in the case.

It was a handmade wooden ladder that was clearly used by the kidnapper to reach the boys window.

So creepy.

A few feet away, there was a broken piece of wood that appeared to have come off the ladder,

probably when the kidnapper was climbing down from the window,

finding nothing else of note in the area outside the house.

They went back inside the way from the police.

Now around 10.30 p.m.,

Hopewell Police Officers, Harry Wolf and Charles Williamson arrived at the Lindbergh home

and briefly questioned Charles and the staff.

And then they did a preliminary search of the house.

From the moment the officers arrived,

Charles dominating personality was pretty evident,

which of course, he's in a state of panic.

Yeah, that's his son, his only child.

Yeah, by that point, he was one of the biggest celebrities in the world

and he became accustomed to taking control of every situation he was in,

particularly those involving his family and his privacy.

That was also like his train.

Oh, yeah.

You know?

So rather than allowed the officers to go about their business as they saw fit,

he followed them around the house.

And as he had with his staff,

demanded that the officers not touch anything in the nursery until experts came.

Which I can't say I wouldn't do that.

And I'm not saying it's a good thing to do.

I'm just saying he's understandable.

He's a parent.

You could never say I would just sit there quietly.

No.

Obviously it's better to let the experts do what they do best.

Of course.

I'm not saying you should involve yourself.

Like, I can't get too mad at a parent for just wanting to be like,

what's going on?

And I think I would do the same thing.

I just, I don't know what I would do and I can't say I wouldn't do that.

But again, I'm not saying it's right or wrong.

No, it's just parentship.

Honestly, I get it.

Now, after nearly 100 years,

it's unclear what Wolf and Williamson did and didn't notice.

We still don't know.

But it's almost certain they took note of the ladder in the yard

and the small number of footprints leading away from the house.

But whoever had taken the baby appeared to have placed cloth over their shoes.

Or had gone barefoot and placed bags over their feet,

which would make it impossible to measure their feet.

Wow.

Which is like pretty.

Just the fact that somebody thought of that.

Yeah.

That's like mastermind shit.

Like shit.

Those are essentially the two things that we found out that they found

and we just don't know what other evidence they,

if anything, they came up with.

They did, though, suggest that whoever the kidnapper was,

there was a strong possibility that this was not their first criminal act.

Okay.

Now, other than the ladder and footprints leading away from the house

in a southward direction, again,

there was little evidence that we know of to speak in the house.

Neither the ladder nor the ransom note had any fingerprints,

either on it.

Probably wearing balls.

Aside from the noise Charles heard from what he thought was the kitchen

while they were eating dinner.

No one in the house heard any other sounds.

As far as the investigators could tell,

the kidnapper probably parked their vehicle away

away from the house and walked through the woods to get to the house.

Which means they obviously traced that route at least one other time.

Yep.

And then they climbed into the nursery through the window

that Betty had left open through no fault of her own.

Then gently lifted the sleeping baby from the crib

and went out of their, out the way they came in,

which like the fact that the baby didn't cry or make any sound.

Yeah.

Must have, they were very gentle with what they did, obviously.

It's also just so horrifying to think that somebody or a group of people

were 100% casing that house.

Yeah.

That is the part of home invasions that scares me the most.

Like it's all so scary.

Yeah.

But for some reason, like the thought of a person casing you

while you are just going about your daily life

and they are learning your daily life while you have no fucking idea.

That's why switch up your routine.

Switch up your routine.

That's finally my house at a different time every day.

Like switch up your routines however you can switch it up.

But it's worse than that also.

They did switch up their routines.

That's the part that really gets you here.

Yeah.

They weren't supposed to be there really.

Yeah.

Which we will go into for sure.

This is going to be a multi-parter because it's very involved.

And also the noise that Charles heard when he was a ladder probably.

That was the wrong of the ladder breaking.

Yeah.

That makes sense.

So he's sitting there having dinner with his wife.

Here's a noise.

And it was somebody stealing his baby.

Yeah.

Like that is unthinkable.

No, it truly is.

And to go back and realize.

Like, oh, that's what that was.

What I thought was just innocuous was a life changing.

And the most like fucking malignant thing I can think of.

Yeah.

So the limited evidence found at the scene supported the theory of how the kidnapping unfolded.

But there was one very important question that wasn't really answered yet.

Until that night, like we were just talking about Charles and Anne only stayed at the house on weekends.

So how was it that the kidnapper knew they would be there that evening when they hadn't been there on a weeknight any other time before that?

And the months are too leading up to this whole thing.

The only people living at the house full time were a number like a small number of staff.

And if the kidnapper had cased the house, like we were just saying or been watching for a number of days or weeks,

they would have seen activity and might have interpreted that as indication that the family had moved in.

But it's also possible they simply got lucky that night.

And had been completely unaware that this is the first weeknight that Charles and Anne were staying there.

Or I just wonder too, like were they being followed and were people listening to their conversations?

Well, that they were planning on moving in.

Well, there's a third possibility that's pretty troubling is that the kidnappers had someone on the inside.

Yeah, informing them of the couple's comings and goings.

Because it is just like sure you could have gotten lucky, but that's lucky.

Well, and it's like if you are casing that house and you know that they're not there, like why would you come on a Tuesday?

Yeah, it just doesn't make a lot of sense.

Well, the other that whole thing of like if they got lucky is one that says they weren't casing the house,

they just showed up on a random night to kidnap this kid and happen to hit the night.

And I just don't feel like that could happen.

Sure, like it could.

It's pretty remote possibility.

And well, and it's just like the fact that they thought this person had done things in the past.

Exactly.

And it's this question, the how did this happen?

How did they know they would be there that hasn't been answered yet?

Yeah, still.

And this is still known how this happened.

Sometimes managing your own money feels like a full-time job.

It takes a lot of time.

You have to track your accounts.

You have to remember what to do on what day.

If you have a spreadsheet, look at you honey, you're crazy.

But you're updating the spreadsheet.

That's a whole other job in and of itself.

All that time adds up quickly.

And it could be spent on something that you actually feel like doing.

Rocket money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel unwanted subscriptions,

monitors your spending, and helps lower bills to grow your savings.

Rocket money consolidates checking savings, loans, and investments into one dashboard,

giving users a clear picture of their finances.

It categorizes transactions automatically, creates budgets, and sends real-time alerts

about big expenses or low balances.

You can view your entire financial landscape in minutes,

set savings goals, and track progress without having to log in to multiple apps.

Instead of wasting time toggling between platforms or wondering where your money went,

Rocket money keeps everything in one place updated in real time.

It's about gaining time, reducing mental clutter, and creating a system that works behind the scenes.

Let Rocket money help you reach your financial goals faster.

Join at RocketMoney.com slash morbid.

That's RocketMoney.com slash morbid.

RocketMoney.com slash morbid.

My mochi ice cream is creamy, premium ice cream wrapped in sweet chewy dough.

My mouth is actually watering, thinking about it right now.

It's a refreshing, satisfying treat that feels like a little mood boost in the middle of the day.

It's indulgent without being heavy, and honestly, it tastes like spring in dessert form.

I don't know how to explain that it just does.

My mochi ice cream comes in delicious flavors like strawberry, mango, cookies, and cream.

We even found a Dubai chocolate one at our grocery store.

Each box includes six individual snacks, making it easy to share, or not, I don't.

They're gluten free, and only around 70 calories per piece, so you can enjoy something that's sweet without really overthinking it.

Taste the joy in every bite of my mochi ice cream.

Guys, I am obsessed with my mochi ever since I found the Dubai chocolate flavor that's been my go-to.

But I also love the cookies and cream flavor.

I was watching a video the other day of somebody out of Theme Park, and they had little mochi ice creams,

and I was so jealous in that moment, and then I said, wait a second, I have my mochi ice cream in the freezer right now.

Heck yeah, brother!

Look for the purple box of my mochi ice cream in the freezer aisle of your local grocery store.

They say time waits for no one, and neither should pay day.

To keep your money moving in the direction of your dreams, get earning.

Earn it as an app that lets you access your pay as you earn it.

Up to $150 a day with a max of $1,000 between pay days.

Just download the earn an app and start accessing your pay as you work.

Any money you access plus optional tips to help keep the app running are automatically repaid from your next paycheck.

I literally love earning realistically.

I would spend that money on probably a good sale, some Harry Styles tickets, I would say.

Just any extra money to get me Harry Styles tickets I'm down for, and earn and could provide that for me.

Download Earn in Today spelled E-A-R-N-I-N in the Google Play or Apple App Store.

When you download the earn an app, type in morbid under podcast.

Earn in as a financial technology company, not a bank.

Access limits are based on your earnings and risk factors.

Standard cash-outs take one to two business days with no mandatory fees.

Expedited transfers available for a fee.

Tips are voluntary and don't affect the service.

Available in select states, terms and restrictions apply.

Visit earnin.com for full details.

Download Earn in Today and take control of your pay.

So when the news of the kidnapping hit the papers the next day, the public was just shocked to learn of Charles Jr.'s disappearance.

Yeah, because maybe.

Also like was kidnapping really a thing back then?

It was definitely not a new phenomenon in the United States at this point.

But look at me leading you into your next sentence.

You really did.

But this was the first time, like the real first time that they saw like the child of a celebrity.

Like a high profile.

Yeah, somebody that like everyone knew.

Right.

All over the country.

That's exactly what you meant.

All over the country, entire front pages were occupied with coverage of the kidnapping and just like various stories about the investigation.

New Jersey director of public safety.

William Egan called out the entire state police in the area and officers conducted a house to house search.

But they didn't find anything that way.

Several miles away from the house, investigators found an abandoned sedan that they thought maybe was related to the kidnapping.

But like the crime itself, seen itself, it didn't have anything in the car to really identify a suspect.

Even if it was connected.

Still spooky.

That's a thing like it could be connected, but they just didn't leave anything behind.

Yeah.

But they did discover something about the car and have been stolen on the afternoon of the kidnapping from an address in Brooklyn.

Okay, so that's us.

Yeah.

Which did lead investigators to include the car, quote, may have been used by the kidnappers in their flight from the Lindbergh home.

That's smart wording.

They said maybe, maybe not.

They said let's head your vets.

Maybe 50.

Maybe not.

There's two possibilities here.

It was either used by the kidnappers or it wasn't or it wasn't.

There you go.

And that's where we are in our investigation.

Okay, so everybody said, oh, good.

Great.

Yeah, awesome.

That's helpful.

Aside from the various details of the crime, what is pretty evident about the heavy coverage of it is the extent to which Charles Lindbergh attempted to use his power and influence to control the investigation from the start.

According to historian Lloyd Gardner, Lindbergh had a very deep distrust of the authorities and doubted their ability to actually solve this case to his satisfaction.

Like, for example, like the morning after the kidnapping, New Jersey governor Harry Moore coordinated with the state legislature to offer a $25,000 reward for Charles Jr's safer turn.

When Lindbergh learned of the reward, he immediately shut it down saying, quote, such action should be deferred for the time being while initial efforts to capture the abductors were being made.

So he didn't want that award going out because he was like, we should capture the people first.

And it's like, no, no, we know that.

It's to capture them.

And also, I think the most important thing here is to find your baby.

Yeah.

That's that's number one.

It feels like counterintuitive.

Well, that's what that reward does.

The reward is to find your baby or find information about where your baby is.

It's, yeah, we want to find who did this, but that truly would have been secondary to me.

I guess like on one hand, maybe he was just like, what if that leads to false tips or something?

Which of course it is.

But also, like, you wouldn't get the reward unless it was a real thing.

It's part of the course in that stuff.

Yeah.

But why wouldn't you want to just open it up to see?

Yeah.

I don't really understand that.

Well, as promised in the initial ransom note, more communications from the kidnappers did arrive in the days after that follow.

That's a eerie.

On March 6, a second note arrived in the mail, postmarked two days earlier from Brooklyn.

In it, the kidnappers increased their demand to $70,000.

The note said, dear sir, we've warned you not to make anything public.

Also notify the police.

Now you have to take consequences.

Means we will have to hold the baby until everything is quiet.

We cannot make any appointment just now.

We know very well what it means to us.

It is, is it really necessary to make a world affair out of this?

Or to get your baby back as soon as possible to settle those affairs in a quick way will be better for both.

Don't be afraid about the baby.

Keeping care of us day and night.

We also will feed him according to the diet.

We are interested to send him back in gut health.

They might good.

Hello.

And ransom was made for $50,000.

But now we have to take another person to it and probably have to keep the baby for a longer time than we expected.

So the amount will be $70,000, $20,000 and $50 bills, $25,000 in $20 bills, and $15,000 in $10 bills.

$10,000 in $5 bills.

Okay.

Don't mark any bills or take them from one serial number.

I'm assuming number.

Yeah.

We will form you ladder where to deliver the money.

But we will not do so until the police is out of the case and the pappers are quiet.

The kidnapping is prepared.

We prepared in years.

So we are prepared for everything.

I'm sorry, but this is like an OG drunk tax.

Yeah, it literally is.

Yeah.

Hello.

Did they receive this?

Like 3 a.m.

This is a reason that they, that, that it comes off like what is happening?

Oh, okay.

Like it was purposeful.

I, perhaps.

Now two days later, a third note was received at the office of Lindbergh's lawyer.

And it was lamenting the fact that they had not received a response.

And they were reminding the family not to involve the police in their negotiations.

It's a dear sir.

Did you receive our letter from March 4th?

We sent the mail on one off the letter near Borough Hall, Brooklyn.

We know police interfere with your private mail.

How can we come to any arrangements this way?

In the future, we will send our letters to Mr. Breckenridge at 25 Broadway.

Otherwise, the note was nearly a word for word duplicate of the letter received the day before.

The drunk tax?

Yeah, the drunk tax.

Now in total, Lindbergh received a dozen ransom notes.

All appearing to be written by the same person.

Only those sent directly to Lindbergh contained the unusual signature and three holes referenced in the first note.

Okay.

Each note was clearly rife with misspellings.

I know.

Like what seemed to be poor grammar, but were they like coded?

Well, it indicated that the writer maybe had some like limited formal education, especially at the time.

Oh, okay.

But it wasn't poor grammar and spelling alone that stood out.

The notes also had an unusual syntax to them.

Like the writer was not a native English speaker.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

So that might be why it seems like it's not making sense how an English speaker would say it.

Okay.

Because it would make sense for someone that is not a native English speaker.

It's like translating, I see.

If it's being like directly translated.

Right.

Now on the day the third ransom note was received by Lindbergh's lawyer, a strange, quote, open letter appeared in the Bronx Home News,

in which the writer, a retired Bronx school principal, Dr. John Condon, offered the kidnappers $1,000 if the kidnappers turned the baby over to a Catholic priest.

But they want 70k.

Yeah.

So Condon said, I offer all I can scrape together.

So a loving mother may again have her childs.

And Colonel Lindbergh may know that the American people are grateful for the honor of a stowed upon them by his pluck and daring.

Okay.

I kind of love that.

But I just like, I want to help.

We love a good Samar.

Yeah.

So the next day, Condon received a letter at his address in New York, believed to be by the kidnapper.

It said, dear sir, if you are willing to act as go between in the Lindbergh case, please follow strictly instruction.

Handelk, Handelk enclosed letter personally to Mr. Lindbergh.

It will explain everything.

I don't tell anyone about it.

As soon as we find out the press or police is notified, everything our cancel.

And it will be a further delay.

Okay.

So the letter instructed Condon to coordinate with Lindbergh to get the money together.

And once he had done that, he was to post a, post a notice in the classified section of the New York American, only saying money is ready.

Okay.

Now, according to author Richard Kayhill, like boom, just boom.

According to author Richard Kayhill, the single most fascinating person involved in the Lindbergh kidnapping was Dr. John F. Condon.

Really?

In fact, like, Condon appeared to come out of nowhere at a pretty crucial moment in the investigation.

And while the timing is almost suspiciously convenient.

Right.

His desire to be like of some assistance to the family was by all accounts genuine.

He's just a good guy.

He was a very patriotic man, especially at a time when like being patriotic was like, you know, it was just like a different thing.

I feel like it carried so much weight back then.

And he had a very like sincere love for like teaching children, helping children.

His teaching extended beyond his retirement and motivated him to become an active leader in his community.

Like, he was just a good guy.

Yeah, it sounds like good.

Like many Americans, Condon had been inspired by Charles Lindbergh's achievements in aviation.

It was devastated to learn of the kidnapping of his baby.

Right.

It was that like patriotism and patriotism, excuse me, and his commitment for the well-being of children that he really spent his life with,

that led him to write the letter in the first place.

It's unclear what, if honestly anything, he expected in return for his services.

He never said he just wanted to back.

But it's really, it's pretty unlikely that he expected to find himself at the center of the literal crime of the centuries, what it is called.

So while Condon's open letter appeared in the Bronx Home News on March 8th, it caught the attention of the New Jersey State police,

but was ultimately dismissed as insignificant.

Because after all, Charles Lindbergh received countless letters year round from adoring fans.

And those letters only increased when the news of the kidnapping broke.

But when Condon received a reply from the kidnappers, they were kind of forced to take the offer more seriously.

So the letter sent to Condon was the second ransom note to be received by someone other than Charles Lindbergh.

The first being the letter sent to Henry Breckenridge, his lawyer.

Like the letter received by Breckenridge, Condon's letter didn't include the three-hole design used by the kidnapper to indicate their authenticity.

But nevertheless, the letter was determined to be authentic by the authorities.

And on the evening of March 9th, Condon found himself on the telephone with Charles Lindbergh, which must have been wild.

Yeah.

Now to everyone's surprise, Lindbergh agreed to allow Condon to act as a go-between.

On March 10th, Charles provided Condon with the $70,000 demanded by the kidnapper,

and Condon started the negotiation with the kidnappers through newspaper classifieds.

He identified himself with the code named Jafsi.

Two days later, another letter arrived at Condon's home, delivered by local cab driver Joseph Perone.

According to Joseph, the letter had been given to him by an anonymous man who paid him to deliver it.

But he could remember very like little about the man.

The note directed Condon to a vacant lot, where he found yet another note,

which instructed him to place the money in a box and plan to bring it with him to Woodlawn Cemetery.

Oh, not a cemetery?

Yeah.

Once there, he was to follow the fence in the direction of 233rd Street, where he would be met by a man referred to only as John.

Isn't this spooky as hell?

And this is just like a random dude who's just trying to help you.

Like this guy's just like, what the fuck?

But you didn't think you were going to do all this?

No, he was like, I'm just trying to help, man.

So the letters from the kidnapper didn't specify when the meeting would take place,

and in the days that followed, Condon continued communicating through the newspapers,

trying not only to pin down a date and time he was supposed to do this,

but also to secure some proof from the letter writers that they were in fact the kidnappers

and not just like setting him up.

To that end, on March 16th, a seventh ransom note arrived at Condon's address,

and that included the Dr. Denton's sleeping suit that Betty Gow had put Charles Jr. in before putting him to bed that night.

Oh, that's awful.

That sends me into orbit.

Yeah.

The idea of the little sleeping suit?

No.

Because I just remember putting my babies into those little sleep bags.

Oh, I just getting that would be the enemy.

I think it all smells like baby.

Oh, the suit was passed along to Lindbergh who confirmed that it was his son suit.

Oh, that's fucking bleak.

So it's important to point out that all of the negotiations between John Condon and the kidnappers

and John Condon and the Lindberghs were happening outside the official investigation.

Oh, okay.

This was like a whole side quest.

Which you can understand because they're being told that they don't involve the authorities.

I get it.

Lindbergh's desperate need to be in control of the situation and his distrust of the police.

And them saying don't involve the police.

It kind of led him to undertake his own investigation.

Yeah.

And it was coordinated by and executed by his lawyers and a lot of like private investigators.

All right.

So there were professionals involved.

Now, according to historian Lloyd Gardner, the fact that Lindbergh kept the ransom notes

and the plan to meet with the kidnappers from police,

would become one of the primary reasons that suspicions would later fall on Lindbergh himself.

Interesting.

Because like once they found that out, they were like, what the fuck's going on?

Why didn't you involve us?

Yeah, I mean, I get that.

Which you get.

You see both sides of that pretty easy.

You absolutely can now.

Yeah, because you can see why authorities would look at that and go, what the fuck is new?

What?

You didn't want to find your kid by involving us?

Like, what the fuck?

Right.

But like when that's how I can't imagine, I don't know how that feels.

Don't involve the police.

Yeah.

Now finally, after weeks of waiting, Condon received a note from the kidnappers on April 1st,

instructing him to have the money ready for the exchange the next evening.

Imagine, Anne, right now, and like obviously Charles too, like weeks with your baby and your little baby.

And your brand new giant house, just like waiting for your baby's return.

With that nursery, just sitting there empty.

I can't.

Like, I can't.

Oh, so the next afternoon, the 11th ransom note was delivered to Condon's home by an anonymous cab driver,

who said he'd been given the note by a man that he didn't know and paid to deliver.

It's just like the first.

The note provided directions to a greenhouse on East Tremend Street in the Bronx,

where Condon found the 12th and final note.

The 12th and final note said,

cross the street and walk to the next corner and follow Whitmore Avenue to the sound.

Take the money with you.

Come alone and walk.

I will meet you.

So Condon did as he was instructed.

And that evening, he found himself in the cemetery waiting to meet that man known as John.

After a few minutes of waiting, he was flagged down by a man waving a hankerchief,

whom he assumed to be his contact.

Yeah.

Later, he would describe the man as being of average height and weight with large ears and a pointy chin.

The only distinctive feature that he noticed was that the man had a large lump at the base of his left thumb

that appeared to be some kind of like physical imperfection.

Okay.

So in exchange for the money, Condon was given the last written communication anyone we received from the kidnappers,

instructing him where to go to find Charles Lindbergh, Jr.

They said, the boy is on the boat, Nellie.

It is a small boat 28 feet long.

Two persons are on the boat.

They are innocent.

You will find the boat between horse neck beach and gay head near Elizabeth Island.

Talk about Massachusetts.

I was just going to say, wait a second, horse mouth has been hit.

So Condon raced home and immediately gave the information to Lindbergh.

After a month of just anxiety and heartbreak, it seemed like the ordeal was finally going to come to an end.

Also, imagine missing, like obviously we know what happens here, but they think they're getting their baby.

Yeah.

And you're like, oh my god, I missed out on a month of my first child's life.

Yeah.

And what kind of trauma are they going to have from this?

Now, Lindbergh made arrangements with the U.S. Navy to borrow a sea plane.

And he and Breckenridge flew to Martha's Vineyard.

Imagine just dialing up the Navy and being able to take an Ibaro plane.

I got to go to Martha's Vineyard.

So they went to Massachusetts to retrieve the sun.

Once they reached the area around Martha's Vineyard, the man, they scanned the water below.

Looking for the boat, supposedly named Nellie, but found nothing.

After a brief break to refuel, they went up again and continued the search until the sun went down.

But they never found any boat.

That evening when it was clear that there was no boat to be found.

Lindbergh and Breckenridge returned to Long Island from there and they took a car to the Lindbergh estate in Hopeall.

So the failure to find their baby in Martha's Vineyard caused John Condon tremendous guilt and anxiety.

Oh, I'm sure.

He had idolized Charles Lindbergh and genuinely believed that by just helping and acting as a go-between,

he could rescue his little boy and be a hero to him.

Right.

But now it looked like his efforts had just been for nothing.

Not only had they not rescued Charles Jr., but he had also lost them the ransom money.

Oh, fuck.

Right.

And the days that followed Condon placed another ad in the Bronx Home News that read in all caps,

what is wrong?

Have you crossed me?

Please, better directions, Japsy.

Unfortunately, his plea received no reply from the kidnapper.

Now, weeks passed with no word and no progress in the official and unofficial investigations.

Then on May 12th, the mystery of Charles Lindbergh Jr.'s whereabouts was pretty tragically solved.

Not by police, but by a stranger, completely unconnected to the case.

That afternoon, New Jersey truck driver William Allen was driving a load of lumber to a location in Hopewell.

And about four and a half miles from the Lindbergh house, he went into the woods,

just ducked in to relieve himself before going back into his car.

He hadn't made it more than 50 or 60 feet into the woods when he made a terrible discovery.

A few feet in front of him covered in dirt and debris was the child's skull.

Oh, God.

Not certain what he was looking at at first.

He ducked his head down for a closer look, and he said he saw a small foot.

Oh, so he raced to the nearest police station and reported what he had found.

Then accompanied several officers and huntered in county corner, William Swayze, back to the gravesite.

The body of the little boy was laying on its side and was badly decomposed.

It had been picked up by animals and scavengers.

So the whole time that condom was communicating with the clinical kidnappers, this baby was not alive.

And they were talking about how he's healthy and they're feeding him his diet and everything's fine.

I know that the authorities at the time are like the unofficial authorities believed that they were actual communications.

Do people widely believe that they were?

We'll get into that.

Okay, for sure.

But yeah, this poor little body was badly decomposed, but there was no denying it was the body of a baby.

Because of the position that their remains had been left, which was the face was pointed towards the ground.

The only good thing was that investigators were able to photograph the child's face, which was mostly intact, because it was face towards the ground.

After comparing the photographs to those of Charles Lindbergh Jr. provided by the family,

inspectors from the state police identified the body of that as that of Charles Lindbergh Jr.

But before making the identification official, detectives took the small scraps of clothing found with the body to the Lindbergh house,

where Lindberg and Betty Gao both confirmed that they were a match for the clothing the baby was wearing the night he disappeared.

The disappearance of Charles Lindbergh Jr. was now a murder investigation.

Oh, man.

And we are going to stop there for part two.

That was a lot.

We're going to get into the hunt for the killer.

We're going to get into theories.

We're going to get into mysteries.

Things that still make us say, huh, about this case, all of it, because it's not over.

I guess not.

It doesn't end there.

I know I don't know all the theories.

Obviously, I know this case, but I don't know.

It's a while.

All the nitty gritty.

That's the thing with this case.

There's a lot.

Yeah.

There's a lot going on.

Yeah.

And so we will get into it in part two.

All right.

I'm interested.

But yeah, definitely a good place to stop.

That was sad.

Yeah.

It really is sad for a baby.

Yeah.

All right.

Do you have a fun fact for us?

There were active volcanoes on the moon when dinosaurs were alive.

Fuck yeah.

Hell yeah.

Hell yeah, brother.

That's metal as fuck.

The only appropriate reaction to that.

Yeah.

Hell yeah.

That popped.

That popped.

That was so fun.

That was so fun.

That was so fun.

Volcanoes on the moon.

Oh my god.

That's the source, which by the way, another fun fact.

You should check out that show on that place called dinosaurs.

I should.

Okay.

Sick.

Are you good?

Let's go.

Go watch that, guys.

I'm a kids love it.

All right.

Well, we hope you keep listening.

And we hope you keep it.

Woo.

But not to worry that you don't give yourself a little poly cleanser by checking out the show dinosaurs on Netflix.

Do it.

It's fun.

Not even in the Adelaide.

It just likes it with her children.

That was from the show dinosaurs.

Oh, it's not the same.

I know it's totally different, but I still think that.

I still think that made sense.

Yeah.

Life's busy.

Don't let banking slow you down.

Whether you're paying bills, setting savings goals, or just splitting the check.

Atlantic Union Bank makes managing your money easier.