The Liberal consensus gave us mass migration and broken boarders

5. He's always taking decisions in the British interest. Absolute rubbish.

4. The Factors. The NHS is itself a grotesque, self-serving interest group.

3. He's in a raging bull phase, is he really?

2. The British people are tolerant. The British people want fairness, but millions of people

consents are being treated like second-class citizens.

1. We have the dog.

Welcome once again to Planet, nor will the Telegraph podcast without a person. Hello, I'm

me Liam Halligan. The UK faces a big economic hit from the US-eraan war than any other

major nation. According to last week's study from the organisation for economic cooperation

and development, warning of significant energy shortages, the OECD says growth will slump

this year, with UK inflation hitting 4% plus. As an energy importer highly reliant on natural

gas, Britain is quote, particularly exposed. That's the International Monetary Fund earlier

this week. Another highly credible international institution, the world's most important financial

watched up, though less, calling out the UK's vulnerability.

And now, with no end of this Middle East conflict in sight, even our own Bank of England

is raising the alarm, warning that British households are now facing high mortgage and

other borrowing costs, along with soaring fuel and food prices.

With Iran lashing out and attacking the oil and gas infrastructure of other Gulf states,

chronic fuel shortages could last months, hammering energy importers like the UK. Go get

your own oil says Trump, or buy it from the US where you have plenty, because you haven't

really got a navy. My paraphrase, but not a lot.

And amidst all this, as the new financial year begins, a whole host of free announced

fixed rises are kicking in with labor putting up the exercise duty, a passenger duty, land

filled tax, plastic packaging tax, climate change levy, and there's the business rates

where you have evaluation, higher rates of dividend and capital gains tax, the continued

freezing of income tax, and that's the insurance thresholds. And on top of that, the start

of April also sees the introduction of disastrous reforms to agricultural property relief and

business property relief that will send inheritance tax bills, soaring for countless modest

family farms and precious family owned small businesses, as I wrote in my Telegraph column

on Sunday, Link in the Show Notes, which will see many farms being sold and valuable employment

intensive, small fat building. It's utter ethylomic vandalism.

Meanwhile, you've written about the ongoing scandal of NHS waiting lists analysts and

Link in the Show Notes, inspired by various planet normal listeners. And our beloved

health service seems to be using statistical chicaneery now to lower the 7 million plus

waiting lists ahead of next month's crucial local elections.

These are tough times dear co-pilot, but at least we're recording on April 4th's date

so we can keep the corny jokes flowing. Talking of which, I heard a rumour. Have you really

bought a cherry can? I don't want this turning into one of your running jokes. Have you

bought a cherry can? I do. You've been around my shed begging. You've been saying. I have

a lend of your cherry can, Alan. Who cares about a cup of sugar if we've got

a gallon of diesel, Governor? The only trouble is I need the weight lifting

to carry the bloody thing. I have got a cherry can. Something about a cherry can, isn't

it? It's kind of got a nice little wartime waff. Yeah, you know, give the oval

tenies on your crystal set, can't you? Yeah, it is. You can almost feel the bacon

like radio under your fingertips. It is. Dating a spitfire pilot. It's all there, isn't

it, really? By the way, just because we've got this April full, so as you said, I have

written this week about, oh, not so beloved NHS. And hundreds of replies, of course,

from telegraph readers who've had to run the gauntlet, this not functioning, not first

world health service. And it was a particularly nice one from a gentleman who just described

himself as Wigan Lancaster. I don't think this is an April full, but as was so much to

do with our government and the NHS, it easily could be. So Wigan says, so in the last week

alone, my GP surgery has lost all my medical records. I've had a text to confirm my appointment

fit a contraceptive coil, but I am male from birth and remain that way. So that would prove

rather difficult. And to cap it all, I have had a call to arrange a pre-op check for procedure.

I had done three months ago, privately, having advised them of that fact. My faith in the NHS stands

just above zero. I'm real, unreal. But you've written in serious terms. It must be said. We've had

quite a few emails, haven't we, from Planet Normal listeners and viewers who've connected us

on Planet Normal at telegraph.co.uk. People literally being shunted off waiting lists against their will,

being invited to import appointments that were last month before the letter even arrives.

Real nastiness going on now. I mean, that's why I talked about it this week, because it's

interesting now. They're not even bothering to hide these roses. So what's just happened this

week, in fact, yesterday is the problem now. The NHS will ration hospital referrals with GP's

being ordered to review at least one in four referral referrals rather than sending them straight

to the hospital. So this is outright rationing now. And we know from Dr Claire, our wonderful

Planet Normal GP that she's been struggling with this seeking advice and guidance, which is

clearly a total lottery. Sometimes she might hear back. Sometimes she has to resubmit.

She says many of the patients she sees now are people who become so depressed because they can't

work. So lots of art. It's all connected, isn't it? The unemployment right here.

The benefits bill is at least what we call it by a really dysfunctional health service.

She says she's got a jeweler who's 10-denitists. He needs an operation on his hand.

Can't work. And then they get depressed. And then they put on weight. And so it goes on. But I think

that what's behind this, you've mentioned the local elections, Starmer and We're Streeting,

obviously very, very keen to present a good news story. They're claiming that the waiting list

is down to 7.25 million, which most other countries wouldn't think was anything to boast about.

But yeah, I mean, I think it is interesting. I found this thing, which I thought would appeal to

called Campbell's Law. And it says the more any quantitative social indicators used for decision

making, the more subject it will be to corruption. And I suggest that what we're seeing at the

moment is former Soviet Union star corruption, because the law says really the system shifts

towards gaming, distorting or outright falsifying the data rather than fixing the problem.

So what we're seeing in the NHS, I gave in the column some examples. It used to be an emergency

overflow into corridor care. Well, we all know what that means. But now they're actually advertising

for corridor care nurses, right? This is someone's put up a kind of flimsy curtain. So, you know,

our parents or, you know, other people's elderly relatives are spending their last hours in

some God forsaken corridor purging the waiting list, as you just described, which is called

waiting list cleansing, which sounds quite starkness, doesn't it? Lessons will be learned

huge problem with maternity care. 67% of maternity units in England are unsafe or inadequate.

Well, that's after the Seminole Ockenden report a few years ago, which we featured very heavily

on planet normal. You actually interviewed Donna. Yes, she's absolutely it's Donna. She goes

from one trust to the next. And the babies keep dying the bills for maternity negligence and babies,

you know, either dead or born disabled as NHS legal costs and billions of pounds. And of course,

we can't imagine the hidden heartache involved beyond the money. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Blighting whole generations of families. As we heard last week from Lucy, the

mum with the young, young daughter with mental health problems waiting for five years, only to get

within touchy distance of 18th birthday and basically being invited to leave the waiting list.

And this is happening the whole time really because, you know, do you, are you sure you want to stay

on this waiting list? And I think Liam, and one of the tricks that's not really commented on is that

many, many people are frightened of dying or on the waiting list or being in so much pain

that they are then, you know, raiding their savings to go to a private hospital. Lots of private

hospitals I've heard of are now saying they're crowded 50% of people in private hospitals are

NHS patients. So they're doing that really on the choir. What I want to say to you now and to

planet normal listeners, we have this basically socialist government right. They will fight

to the bitter end any attempt to move to a mixed provision, private and state funded system,

which works much better than ours. For our Italy, Belgium, Spain, Greece, they all have better

health outcomes than us. All of them have better health outcomes than us. And we know, for fact,

I was in Israel and they said where streeting had been there before he became health secretary

on a fact, finding visit. Israel has a fantastic health service. He'd also went to Australia

on a fact, finding a mission. So where streeting knows perfectly well that you get much fast

superior care, better cancer outcomes, better survival from strokes in these systems, which have

some private element. But this is the point. This government is prepared to spend taxpayers

money paying for thousands of NHS patients to go into the private sector, but they are not prepared

to take the logical step, which is that the private sector could be used. And we keep talking

about this, don't we? More formally, more systematically, not on an

pure ideology. We've got this pure NHS system

unpolluted by evil capitalism. Pure ideology. But it doesn't, it's killing people, babies,

old people, people with mental health problems. It doesn't work. We don't want it. We want a system

that works. And where is the political party that will come out and say, you know, it's done

very well over many years, lots of excellent people. But now it's letting people down and they

are lying to us about the state a bit. And that's where we've got. The state is rotten.

In so many areas, the state is rotten and is lying, whether it's energy provision, which we're

going to go on and talk about. But I'm really, really upset about it now. You've written

powerfully about it, Alison, the NHS are highly litigious, as I know, from making various

documentaries over the years. They would deny what we've said about their failures and so on.

But the fact is that waiting lists are chronically high. The fact is, as we've pointed out,

endlessly on planet normal, that when you look across the OECD countries, the sort of 30 odd

most advanced economies in the world, the UK spends about average in terms of state health care,

and yet our outcomes on the big three, oncology, stroke and heart disease are the worst or

second or third worst systematically. And of course, labour indulges in this pathetic reductionist

view of the world, as does the BBC, that the only option is the NHS, as it currently is, a massive

state monolith employing how many one, two million people, a complete blob, an insane bureaucracy

that drives everyone that works in it in crazy, let alone the people who are paying for it.

You'd think from Labour's rhetoric and the BBC's treatment of this vastly important subject,

it was either America, where I'm silly to show you a credit card, you don't get any health care,

which isn't actually true most of the time, but anyway, or it's our NHS system. The fact that there

are several dozen countries who have mixed systems, still free at the point of use, that's absolutely

key in those systems, there might be a small charge here and there as there is for prescriptions

and in dentistry, means tested, but still free at the point of use, you can have a mixed provision

system, the fact is the NHS is itself a grotesque self-serving interest group, and while there are

many good people working in the NHS, of course there are, there are also many people that are just

in it for themselves, you know, doctors coining it and restrictive practices going on and endless

strikes going on, and lots of doctors being trained by the state and then spending most of their

life part time working in the private sector. This isn't how it should be, there should be a much more

logical system, and as you say, Alison, the politics of this are shifting, us ridiculously banging

pots and pans for the NHS during lockdown, what we've seen as a high point of kind of propaganda

really about our healthcare system. Yes, there's lots of good people there, plenty of my family

have worked in the NHS for years and years, as nurses rather than doctors, I should say, it's full

of good people, but the good people, the efforts of them are being stymied by the system, and if you

talk to these people up close and personal, as I often do, not least because quite a few of them

are my relatives, and you've got deep contacts in the NHS as well, we talked to George, our

incredible NHS statistical rider, Dr Claire, other healthcare practitioners operating at the highest

level that talk to planet normal, anonymously and on the record. We're not just saying this

for ideological reasons, the system doesn't work as you rightly say, and it's fantastic that you've

really marked that in your column this week, I think. I mean, it's everything else that's going on

with Donald Trump saying, oh, you haven't really got a navy, have you, and let's tear up NATO.

What's going through his head? He's in a raging bull phase, isn't he really?

Raging man, baby, my god. I know, I was quite keen on the Iran war initially, but he's really,

he's testing my patients, Liam, he's testing my patients. It's quite serious, isn't it, because

this threatening to leave NATO, that wouldn't be okay for us because we can't really, we can't

access our nuclear arsenal without America. They've got the key, haven't they? I think they've got

the, they've got the fob. So it is very, very serious, and I think it's, you know, he's, he was on

fine form this week, you know, Britain needs to learn how to fight all of these countries that

can't get jet fuel because of the Strait of War moves. Like the United Kingdom, which refused

to get involved, I have a suggestion, as you said, buy it from the US, build up some delayed

courage and go to the Strait of War reason, take it, you'll have to start learning to fight for

yourself, go get your own oil. I mean, it is pretty inflammatory stuff, it's not really.

There's a lot going on here saying that where the Brits is in century to a certain generation of

newspaper commentators, you know, people, well, of our generation, frankly, who grew up on stories,

passed down one generation about, you know, the Brits standing firm and, you know, the finest hour

America took a long time to turn up to the Second World War, whatever you read, whatever the Hollywood

glossing of Save It Private Ryan is actually, for a long time there, the Brits were standing alone,

Brits and the Commonwealth nations against Eve or it wasn't, you know, my family weren't even

British back there. We were picking spuds in the West of Ireland, but I feel incredible pride,

actually, at the UK's role in the world at that time. And for Trump to say this is pretty

turn-ed, but on the other hand, you know, even the first sea lord is saying, we haven't got a

navy, right? And at the same time, what is true is that the Americans don't actually need the

straight of hormones, right? Back in 1973, when you had the oil price shop off the Yon Kippur war,

America was the world's biggest energy importer, it badly needed Arab oil and gas. It doesn't

anymore because since 2005, since the Shell Revolution, America's combined oil and gas production

has gone from like 5 million barrels of oil equivalent to 13 or 14 million barrels, their energy

self-sufficient if they want to be. Of course, other stuff comes out of the Persian Gulf,

fertilizer, feed stock, all kinds of other minerals that are very, very important and of course,

there's a global price, broadly a global price for oil and gas. American oil and gas exporters

make money, but of course, Trump gets harmed because as we go into the summer, the so-called

driving season, as we approach the midterms in November, the fact that petrol gas as the Americans

call it, that they spot in their cars is now $4 a gallon. That is a very big moment in American

politics. That is an incredibly sensitive political metric. Trump doesn't want these really high oil

prices, but the reality is, of all the major economies in the world, the one that can stand most

Middle East, effectively oil and gas embargo, which is currently happening, courtesy of Iran

blocking the Strait of Warmers, America can style that one out. This threat that I may just stop

this war, walk away from this war with the Strait of Warmers blocked, that's a real threat

that Trump can credibly make. Basically, he's trying to get the rest of the Western world,

the rest of NATO, the Europeans, the Brits. He's trying to get them engaged and involved.

In order, not just to help militarily, to the extent that we and the French and so on can,

but also to share the political pain of this, to share the burden as and when it goes

properly wrong, which it now seems to be, because guess what? Iranians are a bit more

determined and a bit more sophisticated with respect than the Venezuelans, and they are really

determined people, and by taking out the top layer of the Iranian theocracy, actually,

you've just exposed other layers of really hard-line people from the Revolutionary Guard,

who were actually tempered by the theocrats that were there beforehand. In Venezuela, he took out

one sort of strata of rich printlings, and then the next one was compliant. But, you know,

Iran is a very, very different place, and I think it's a bit more than they can chew.

Well, I think that's being unduly pessimistic, because I think that they're arsenal, and even

then nuclear threat, I think they are pretty much at the bottom of the barrel now. I really do

think that, so I think they have Israel and America combined have really reduced Iran, and I think

that they're very clever at the propaganda, but I think that their actual ability to fight back is.

But what do they need to do to block the strait? They need a few drones, and they need to tell

Reuters and other news services that they've laid them out, load of mines, and then the insured

industry, their white finance, the passage of those ships, and then we're done.

As we're recording, Liam Trump saying Iran is asking for a cease-fire, and we can't really rely

on anything. He says, no. I think it was a huge mistake. I think Starmer was posturing, again,

with an eye on the homegrown Muslim vote, when he and those first couple of days, I think

wrongly refused to allow. He wasn't wrong to say we won't get dragged into the war boots on

the ground style, but he didn't even allow the US to have access to our bases, but really technically

in reality, their bases. And I think that was a terrible mistake for the special relationship,

which now basically lies at the bottom of the mid-Atlantic, so that I think that could be a

historic mistake. They're posturing, could have put a real crack across NATO.

Exactly, so I think that's a fair comment. I think that it really unjuly provoked him,

and let us fare a little sort for King Charles, who's got to turn up in Washington at the end of

the month for a statement. He's going to take a packet of Dutch original shortbread to.

You're going to take plenty of shortbread to sort Trump out.

I mean, it absolutely hurts.

You're going to need an aircraft carrier full of shortbread.

That's it. We can unlock the streets of hormones with shortbread.

It's quite heavy. It's quite heavy.

The Dutch original shortbread, trying to flap jacks. They'd really, they'd really take it.

Oh my god, that'll really, really, really could tell the Iranian military in which

we may not have any boats, but we've got loads of flap jacks.

But coming back to what you said at the top, look, we, unbelievably this week, we had Rachel Reeves

and Mad Miniband in a G7 online meeting. And Rachel had the nerve to suggest to the other G7

countries that they could work on there, you know, becoming more energy secure. I mean,

we are in the land of Nord now, aren't we, with these people? And what you said at the top,

that we are, you know, people of authorities have said we are more exposed to this shock

than other countries. This is self-inflicted, Liam, right? We could have, you know, underlies

trust, much malign, but Liz said, you know, let's get cracking with shale gas. Let's drill oil and

gas, which Kenny Bade knock is now saying, you know, you know, and of course reform absolutely

sort of very full-blooded on that. But with the situation we are in is far worse. And

Starma did a press conference today. That's Wednesday, you know, talking about storm is coming.

He's always taking decisions in the British interest. Absolutely rubbish. As you outlined in your

lovely list of the woe coming our way, I don't think I'm, I don't think I'm on

talk about timing. My goal. Absolutely, you know, every tax under the sun. This is what happens

when you announce tax rises and they're introduced in the future. The future arrive. Yeah,

through now, as you say, with people thinking, my God, you know, I think our latest gas and energy

bill was like 500 pounds or something. I mean, God knows what it's going to be like when, you know,

the actual pain kicks in, apart from the Jerry can in the shed. That's going to stand

a thing good. So we are horribly exposed. And Starma's going to posture. He's now saying, oh,

you know, this is a good reason to get closer to the EU. Surprise, surprise. You know, I mean,

the man is shameless, isn't he? I think he is. The idea that closer aligning ourselves with the

slowest growing continent in the world, except Antarctica is going to rescue our economy is just

nuts. And again, it's just political posturing, trying to rope in, you know, the university town,

B.M. Ponsons, who are flirting now with the Green Party. It's just pathetic internal posturing.

And look, I've advocated for us to use less fossil fuels for my whole adult life, right? I

really do have researched a lot over the years, hydrogen, other green technologies. Yeah. In the end,

it makes a lot of sense. But in the end is a long time in the future because there's an awful lot

of research and engineering to be done. And you have to make these transitions gradually because,

you know, in the meantime, everyone else is living and you can't destroy the economy that's

generating the wealth that can finance the change. The way we're doing this, again, all about

ideology, all about posturing from both left and right. You know, Trees are maize as guilty as

anyone on this. And a lot of Tories that went along with all this kind of, you know, green

zealotry. Good for Kimmy Badenock that she's turned, you know, she's put the handbrake on on that

stuff. Claire Coutinho, the shadow energy secretary is now very much an evangelist for more drilling

in the North Sea. It just doesn't pass the sniff test, right? That here we are and the Norwegians

are making, hey, literally making a huge amount of money further ensuring their own energy

security, further increasing the extent to which we are relying on them because they are drilling

in the North Sea. They're discovering new wells all the time and upping their production while

are wells that are completely viable, as long as you're not taxing them at 75% of the profit,

you know, at regular taxation levels, an oil and gas company should pay higher corporation tax

and other people like set that. It should be higher, 30, 35% with a supplementary, something like that.

But at 75% all these wells cease to be viable. It just doesn't pass the common sense test,

particularly if we start to get power cuts or outages as I'm not allowed to call them. Yeah,

when refrigeration starts being a problem, when, you know, hospital backup generators fail

and the grid is failing. Yeah, as we try and take our place with the AI revolution in the months

and years to come and we simply haven't got the grid capacity to do that as I wrote a couple of

weeks ago in the telegraph. I had an incredible conversation with a guy up in the North

East of England, John McGee, who is like, we should get him on planet normal. He was an apprentice

lecturist on a building site and now he's one of the leading data center entrepreneurs in the

world, frankly, he's building these modular data centers that snap on. But even he wants that to

happen in the Northeast of England, he wants us to be at the forefront of the AI revolution.

And he's saying the grid capacity just isn't there. As our grid continues to fail, systematically

can tail in growth and at the margin where there are emergency situations and the gridable fail,

which is where we are heading, right? All the politics of net zero will completely change

and all the worries and the angsting of the pull clutching middle classes about net zero will

quite frankly be completely blown away by the general population saying, just drill, what are we

doing? This is nuts and any popularity that Ed Miliband has outside of a narrow base of green

head labor activists will be completely destroyed. Politics on this will move very, very quickly,

as and when the genuine weakness of our grid and our energy infrastructure more generally is exposed

as it is about to be. And there aren't many silver linings in this scenario, but I'm afraid that's

one of them. As with the NHS, the propaganda and the lies goes into overdrive. So we're seeing both

Rachel Reeves and Miliband talking about price gouging, right? Now who is getting the majority?

So Felma, start the week, here we go. So Rachel's tax bonanza, Treasury's getting 20 million a day now

from extra revenue from levies and taxes on oil and gas as the price goes up more VAT.

When they say, oh, you know, there's no money for these, you know, lucky middle class people who

are still able to afford to feed the dog. Actually, they have got money, haven't they?

They have. And it's true that as the price of petrol goes up, the biggest net beneficiary of that

is the government. But Liam, no one knows that, right? No punters. Well, over half of what we pay

at the, on the four court is tax. But there's another aspect of this, Alison, yes, that generates money,

that means the government could, you know, not increase fuel duty, even cut fuel duty,

even cut VAT from fuel. These things are happening all over the continent, other countries,

in Australia. These things, these are mostly measures are happening, not in the UK. But the

major issue that we have, Alison, is yes, the government may be getting a bit more money from

fuel duty and VAT as energy prices rise. But I'm afraid that's completely blown away by the fact

that government borrowing costs are spiraling. That interest service costs are spiraling. As I said,

even before this, even before we had, you know, Trump making his move on Iran at the end of February

and February, the borrowing numbers, I don't, I don't apologize for repeating them, they're absolutely

insane. We borrowed in February alone as a government 14.3 billion quid. That's roughly the money

you get from 2p on the basic rate of income tax over an entire year. It's massive money. We

borrowed 14.3 billion in one month. And of that 14.3 billion, 13 billion was debt interest payments.

Most of our borrowing went on servicing the debt on previous borrowing, completely mad.

I wasn't, by the way, I'm not in mind with my new economic literacy. I'm not going to horrify

you. I don't think that, you know, bills should be subsidized to any great extent. I'm just pointing out

the fact that they're lying to the public, who's thinking that they tried to say all the, you know,

the guys with the local garage, he's gouging money out of you. That's not true. That's not true.

People don't understand that to fund these, you know, Wendy Miller's mad windmills,

public money, technical term, but public money, you know, the public is paying not just for

mad pursuit of net zero, which as you said, is not attainable in the short or even the medium term.

So even if the windmills aren't turning and the sun's not shining, these guys are still

raking it in. And I don't think the public has yet fully grasped, but they are being had really.

Alison, let's end this section before we go to the guest. Let's end this section on a question,

right? And maybe planet normal listeners can help us answer it. You mentioned Wendy Miller,

right? I do like a Trumpton reference. Oh, I love Trumpton.

But was it cowboy green or was it chickly? There you go. Can you sing? Can we sing the tune

of when the windmills going round? Do you remember that one? That sounds, sounds of our childhood.

Next week, Pogel's Wood. Right. Tinger and Tupper with Auntie Jean. This is what planet

normal is such essential listening. Things no one can remember from the 1970s. We are getting

so many emails about chickly. Now onto our planet normal guest.

Slight swerve away from Trumpton. It's a welcome return to the rocket for Professor Matt Goodwin

highly respected academic, political scientist and parliamentary candidate for reform UK.

Matt recently came second to the green party in the Gordon and Denton by election.

Matt has written several bestsellers, national populism, which forecast the rise of populist parties,

values, voice and virtue, which outlined the key shifts that has powered the rise of Nigel Farage.

Matt has one of the largest substats in Europe, nearly 100,000 daily readers, even co-pilot,

halogen occasionally is a guest star with Matt. He also presents a popular weekly show on GB news.

Now, Matt's new book, Suicide of a nation, immigration, Islam, identity quickly went to the top

of the bestseller charts. But it's also caused huge controversy because of its provocative

portrait of Britain and nation. Goodwin argues that it's not only threatened by unprecedented

demographic change, but actively participating in its own demise.

Matt Goodwin, welcome once again to Planet Normal. Matt, your new book, Suicide of a nation,

immigration, Islam, identity is currently number two on Amazon. Just behind a book about a fluffy

Easter chick. You missed a trick there, Matthew. One of my critics has pointed out,

I'm second again after finishing second at the Gordon and Denton by lecture.

If you've done immigration plus fluffy chicks, you'd have been straight into number one.

So the book has caused quite a stir. Critics have already said the book is racist, divisive,

toxic, irresponsible and incendiary, although not the Alison Pearson column. We quite liked it.

Matt, what is it that your critics have objected to and is it bothering you or is it just confirming

you in what you wrote? I think on one level, there have been all the usual attacks that the book is

directly running against the liberal consensus that has given us mass migration, the broken

policy of multiculturalism and broken borders. So I don't pull any punches in the book. I sort of

dismantle all of that. And I also consciously and deliberately published outside of the mainstream

publishing industry, which is really important because this is my eighth book, but I know from my

experience I would never have been allowed to publish a book like this with the mainstream

publisher. So they don't write back because they can't control the book. They can't sense

the book. But then there are these very misleading and false claims that I've somehow drawn

extensively on artificial intelligence when writing the book, which is categorically untrue.

It's an attempt to discredit what I'm writing. I've certainly used AI as a research tool,

but it's a bit like using a calculator when you do maths. Everybody is using AI now as long as

you're cross-checking the numbers that you get with the official datasets, which I do,

for example, showing how classrooms are changing in Britain because of mass immigration,

looking at how alarmingly large numbers of people in our country reject our British and English

identity. And I point to this and I think really what we've seen is something similar to what we

saw with Brexit, to be honest, which was an attempt to discredit a viewpoint, discredit an

argument that many people on the left and also to my right, people that just don't like reform.

Maybe they prefer somebody like Rupert Low. I've had it on all sides from people who are

criticizing the book for politically motivated reasons. Thankfully, it's connected with the people.

I've just read in the bookseller magazine, which is a leading magazine for the publishing industry,

that the book is now ranked as the second nonfiction paper back in the country, which means it's

basically one of the biggest books in Britain right now. And I'm very, very thankful that people

are looking past the debate in London to actually read about what's happening to our country and

what will happen, Alison, if we don't change course. Having said that, there are several misquotations.

Do you think, given you knew the kind of flat you were likely to get, that you could perhaps have

been a bit more vigilant about some of these quotes slipping through? So there are a couple of

historical misquotes that are being corrected as you and I speak now. We're going to release an

updated edition shortly to give you an example. I've misquoted Cicero who spoke 2000 years ago. I

say something along the lines of he wanted to put the people first, whereas in reality, what he

said is the good of the people is the supreme power. So that's the kind of stuff that we're talking

about. There has been a debate about what's going on in the classrooms. One of my critics, the left

wing activist called Andy 12's, has claimed that it is simply not true that a majority of children

in classrooms in places like Leicester, Luton and Slow no longer speak English as their main language.

Now I'm afraid anybody who's actually looked at the data, that is true. If you look for example

at what's happening in primary schools in those areas, upwards of 50% of children no longer

speak English as their main language. Now people on the left will say, what's the problem with this?

We're totally comfortable with this. My view is actually I think that is very, very worrying

and I think it's a reflection of how the shared language and the shared culture that used to hold

our country together is breaking down. But whatever you think about that, Alison, it's a debate that

we need to have. And I'm not going to have that debate shut down. I'm not going to have it censored.

We have to be able to discuss what is happening to Britain and I stand by that.

I was going to come onto that, but as you've raised it now, we'll talk about that now.

We've always had immigrants where the mother tongue was the tongue in the home and the children

spoke English in the classroom and in wider society, could be Yiddish, could be Turkish,

English is my second language map. I spoke Welsh until I was five. I think my English is quite good

now. So I mean, what's wrong with children having a mother tongue at home and then learning

English for their public role, as it were? Do you object to that? Or is it more of a sign of not

a shared national identity? What are you getting at? Well, firstly, congratulations on speaking

Welsh as well, because part of my family being Welsh on the... I know. We share a

celestial... I know. This is why we're... This is why we're both. She pitpony is good to see.

I did try to learn it once, but goodness me is a hard language. I'll give you a lesson.

Yes, we've always had people who've spoken different languages, of course, we have. But what is

happening in Britain now thanks to mass migration is something completely different. For example,

if you look at the official census, we now have at least one million people as of 2021. The numbers

are almost certainly higher thanks to the Boris Wave of migration since then. But we have at

least one million people in Britain who cannot speak English well or at all. I think we should

talk about that. In primary and secondary schools, yes, we've always had children who might speak

a different language at home and then speak English in the classroom. But some of the numbers

that we are now seeing in parts of Britain, and I list those numbers in detail. For example,

around one in every three children in places like Newcastle, Glasgow, much higher in places like

Slao, Peterborough, Leicester, Luton, Bradford and so on, for those children English is no longer

the main language. We're spending 234 million pounds in recent years on translation services

and our public institutions. And I'm not the first person to point to how the rise of multilingualism

erodes our shared sense of who we are. Samuel Huntington in America famously wrote a book called

Who Are We, in which he said that if you increasingly have many different languages and in turn

many different cultures, many different ways of life, what you end up losing over the long term

is that sense of we in who are we, our collective story, our collective memory, our collective history.

I was struck when I went to East London recently to do a short documentary on what do people think

Britishness is. And I'm being very honest with you, Alison, it took me 20 minutes to find anybody

in East London around the White Chabble area who could actually speak English. Now how can you have

a shared identity? How can you have a shared story, a shared memory? If the people in your society

rising numbers don't even speak the shared language, my view is perhaps old fashioned. I think

if you live in England and you're working in England, I think you should fundamentally speak English.

And I don't mind pointing to that. I've also pointed to the constraints that it poses on

teachers and schools. Again, the left disagree with me. They say there's nothing to see here.

But if you read the evidence has been submitted by organizations like the Bell Foundation and others,

it is quite clear teachers struggle with schools where there are dozens if not more languages being

spoken. And by the way, people on the left, they never say what about the British kids who have to

go through the educational system in this environment. I'm not talking about one or two well speakers

here, Alison. I'm talking about schools say school in Bradford. My critics really attack me for

pointing to what's happening in Bradford. Yeah, years ago, I did teacher training in South

all and even then, this is a long time ago, there were children in my English class who couldn't

write English. I mean, they were they were lovely kids, but they were from foreign backgrounds.

And it was a struggle to incorporate the teaching of them into the group where they were children

where English was the first language. So I take your point, Matt. The book does contain some

shocking statistics about the rapid pace of demographic change in Britain. You talk about how

England and Wales will change in just one lifetime between today and the end of the century.

White Britain has become a minority in 2063 and by the time a child born today turned 37 years of

age, the white British will officially become a minority group in Britain. And you say also

point out, Matt, that until the late 1990s, white British represented more than 95% of the country.

Are you making a point about skin color per se? Most of us know people who aren't white and yet are

sorely British, a couple of leading lights in reform. One's family from Sri Lanka,

one of Laila Cunningham's family from Egypt. I think I feel they're their British. Are you making

a point about skin color? Is whiteness is eroded? Or are you making a point again about national

identity? Well, the first thing to say is even though many people who be listening to this have a

sense that Britain is changing, I don't think people fully understand how quickly our country is

about to be transformed. That's why I wrote the book because I wanted to tell people the truth.

And as you say, some of the numbers are pretty startling. Now, I want to talk about whether the

British and the English people want that to happen, because I don't think there's much of a

democratic mandate for that scale of demographic change. It's like nothing our ancestors have

ever seen. Now, with regards to the majority, I don't view this as being really about race and

ethnicity. I view it as being more story about historic majorities. Majority groups are important

because they anchor the nation. They define the nation. So if you look around the world, about 70%

of all countries have a very clear majority group. And about 80% of all countries have a majority

that represents about 40% of their population. Now, what I'm saying is if we carry on in the

current direction of travel in Britain, by the end of this century, we will have neither of those

things. Now, that puts us into the same bucket as countries like Lebanon and Sierra Leone.

Majorities are important. And even people from minority backgrounds who I'm very clear,

I make this point in the introduction, they care just as much about these issues as they're

white British counterparts. That's why, for example, one in three, black and minority ethnic

Britons voted for Brexit because they care as much about these issues around borders,

demographic change, lowering migration, restoring national sovereignty. As their white

British counterparts, they view the majority of the nation as a symbol of their nation. And they too

don't want to live in a country that say 50 years from now that might call itself Britain,

might call itself England, might call itself Wales. But it doesn't actually look in any

recognisable sense like the Britain or the England or the Wales that we currently know and recognise

and also love. And that's why I think this is about saying there are millions of people,

often from different backgrounds who value our country, who value the demographic makeup of our

country and they don't want to see it overturned. You write for decades the institutions that once

embodied our nation, Parliament, civil service, the courts, the police, the BBC have drifted away

from the public. They exist to serve. Our country is now in the grip of a new ruling class

whose members see themselves not as custodians of a living nation, but as supervisors at the global

humanitarian project that has no borders and no loyalty to the people whose taxes fund their

salaries. Now, you've worked in academia, Matt. You've been surrounded by the people you describe.

How did all these bright, highly educated people end up becoming hyper progressives and arguably

anti-British? Well, it's a very big question and I have to be honest, the 20 years in universities

certainly influenced my thinking and writing in the book because I've seen it all. I mean,

I've been at the World Economic Forum workshops. I've been at the trilateral commission conferences.

I've been at the Oxbridge seminars. I've been in the room with the top academics around the

world. I've seen how they talk and think about the countries that they're from but no longer really

value or cherish. This book has ruffled feathers among that group. I think what's essentially

happened is the public have started to drift right on cultural issues like migration and borders

because they recognize that their countries are being destroyed and I'm very clear in the book

and saying this is about civilizational collapse. That's what we're living through. While the

institutions, they've been drifting to the left, not just universities, but the publishing houses,

the political parties, the media, all of the things you've pointed to as well, the police authorities,

the general regime of censorship and control. As those institutions have sensed that the people

are on the move, they've tried to keep everybody in place. I just don't think that's sustainable.

In higher education, partly it's about how people have self-selected into higher education,

but it's also about what happens when you're in the universities and what generally happens is you

are exposed to group think. It is ironic that the universities talk endlessly about diversity,

but there really is a complete lack of diversity of thought in higher education. I think now that's

being made worse by how higher education is becoming a Ponzi scheme for mass migration.

It's increasingly clear that higher education is being used to encourage the

importing of low wage, low-skill non-European migrants who are basically allowing

second-rate universities to keep the lights on, giving them a crucial source of funding,

but those students are often using higher education to just get into Britain and then switch

on to different visa programmes and stay in the country. Now, I'm happy to be unpopular among

my academic colleagues appointing this out, but I've lived it. I've seen it. I've been told

not to fail international students because they bring money that the university needs and without

that money, the university would go broke. I'm just blowing the whistle and the reason I wanted to

tell people the truth about how immigration is changing our society. So I had to consciously step

outside of all of that to actually bring people the evidence and the data showing, for example, why

mass migration is weakening our economy, showing why actually certain minority groups are

disproportionately more likely to commit rape and sexual assault. I'm sorry if that upsets everybody,

but it's an empirical fact. We either believe in evidence or we don't. And so I've been

pointing these things out in the book and I'm glad that so many people are engaging with it,

because I think they can sense to be very blunt that they are being ghastly and they are being

misled and I would even say they're being lied to by a political class that is wholly focused on

preserving this broken consensus. Yes, my asylum system whistle blower, she said that the big surge

in asylum claims have come from students and dependents coming to university. So they don't even

bother to take the course anymore. They pitch up and then that's where the big area of growth for

asylum claims is in these people you described. It's interesting, Matt, isn't it, that if you look at some,

I'm very interested in this rise in illegal migrants linked to rape and sexual violence,

something really bothers me because I don't think the safety of British women and children is

considered at all in these immigration cases when men are kept in the system who quite frequently

go on to assault people. But we recently had a case in Oxford of an Afghan man who draped a child

and his barrister, presumably a member of this liberal class you describe, basically argued

that her client had very different cultural understanding, didn't understand British values

and so on because so couldn't really be expected to know that abducting and raping a 12-year-old

was not a desirable thing. I mean, they do know, don't they? At some level, they do know that it's

incompatible, don't they? Well, absolutely. I was not surprised, unfortunately, at all to see

another recent case in Uniton where an Afghan man, 23 years of age who arrived on one of the small

boats entered Britain illegally, was just sentenced to 16 years for raping a 12-year-old child in

Uniton. This is completely consistent with the evidence I talk about. In the book, Afghans are

disproportionately more likely than other net foreign national groups to be arrested and convicted

of sexual assaults. Now, Paloma faith and awake celebrities might not want to talk about this,

just Phillips might not want to talk about this, but it is the reality that we are living through.

What we need to do, I think, is really start thinking about, again, what I talk about in the

book is research that has been put forward by somebody like Garrett Jones, a very respected

academic, and he has this good line. He says, what people have to understand is when you import

migrants, you are importing the average cultural traits of those societies. So when you're

importing 40,000 Afghans, as we've been doing, or you're importing people from Eritrea or Somalia,

we are importing the average cultural traits from those societies. So it's no surprise,

for example, that large numbers of Somali people are living in social housing at the British

people's expense, often unemployed as well. We need to end this, and in the final chapter,

I say, what can we do about it? We need to end welfare benefits for people who are not British.

We need to end social housing subsidies for people who are not British. Those two things right

would save us 16 billion pounds a year, which could go into frontline NHS, frontline schools,

policing, and the rest of it. But what we've got among the ruling class is what the Canadian

psychologist Gadsad has called suicidal empathy. It is a world view that basically pushes elites

to be so obsessed with showing empathy to other people, people from outside of their countries,

or minorities within their countries, that they end up destroying their countries from within.

The grooming gang scandal is the most obvious example of this. The reason nobody looked at it was

because the elites were so obsessed with showing empathy to minorities, that they completely overlooked

white working class girls from the majority in it clashed with that world view. So what we need

to do is push back very strongly against that world view of suicidal empathy, and say no actually,

we believe in a principle of national preference. We believe that our people come first. We're

not ashamed of that. We're not going to be embarrassed about that. And we're going to preserve

and protect our nation's state. We've seen Shabbana Moub saying non-crime hate incidents or

being scrapped. They were used, clearly used, Matt, to punish people for tweeting comments, very

like the ones you make in your book. Do you think that this new anti-Muslim hostility guidance

is again being introduced to suppress precisely the kind of truthful openness you're showing in

this book? Well, I did think about you actually while I was writing the book because I thought,

I think I get a mention, yes. Yeah, if the police officers came to your door, then they're certainly

about to come to my door. But I do think the supposed scrapping of non-crime hate incidents in a way

should be welcomed, but it doesn't really indicate the reassertion of individual liberty because

at the same time, we're having this new definition of anti-Muslim hostility, which, of course,

say is non-statutory, but we all know what that means in reality is going to be imposed on our

schools, universities, NHS and more, which is basically going to shut down discussion about Islam

in our country. So you won't be able to criticize the scenes that we witnessed in Trafalgar Square.

You won't be able to criticize the way in which the grooming gangs are partly influenced by

ideas and teachings within Islam. You won't be able to criticize things like Sharia Courts or the

way in which women are treated because under this definition, no doubt critics will cry that that

is prejudicial stereotyping. So no matter what somebody like Dominic Grief says, this is now going

to be used to stigmatize discussion around Islam and cultural practices within Muslim communities.

What I would have liked to have seen, briefly, is a political leader in this country. March that

school teacher and badly back into the classroom and make it crystal clear that this is England,

the history of England as a history of liberty. That's what the historian McCordy once said,

and we are not a country, we're not a nation that is going to be bullied and harassed and

intimidated into curtailing our public square and national conversation because of some angry

Muslims. Now, if we had real leaders that they would be all over that as interesting Nigel Farage

is the only frontline political leader, by the way, who has said that he will ban Muslim

brotherhood. And I think that is something that has been overlooked but is incredibly important

because that's what those scenes in Trafalgar Square were about. They were about bullying.

They were about intimidation and they were about using the public place to project a political

ideology. You just came second, a heroic second in the Gordon and Denton by election. A group

calling itself the Muslim vote did tell Muslims in that constituency. I believe they were quite

quite a high percentage in one half of the constituency to vote green and the greens did

indeed win, although with sending out mixed messages in the translated into foreign languages,

a very different perspective from the trans views that they espoused when speaking English.

Matt, did you see sort of segregation there and what do you think are the implications

for our democracy in the future if that's allowed to continue?

Well, I saw that the greens have become a Trojan horse for sectarianism. That's basically

what is happening. Many hustings, gender segregated. I didn't see Muslim women at the hustings by

the way. I saw lots of leaflets in Urdu and Punjabi. I did think about releasing my book in Urdu.

I thought, hey, maybe that would encourage more people to read it. But underneath this is actually

and Welsh and Welsh and underneath this is actually a very insidious creeping threat that is

facing our society and everybody can sense it. Sectarianism is when people put tribal and religious

allegiances ahead of their loyalty to Britain. We can see that time and time again and if this

is now happening potentially in dozens of seats at the next general election, as I say in the book,

10 years from now, 20 years from now, it will be happening in hundreds of seats in this country.

I don't want to see that happen. The answer to this is to do three things. We need to dramatically

restrict postal voting. We need to end mass postal voting so it is only used by the disabled

or people serving our country overseas or the elderly who cannot actually walk to the polling

stations. Secondly, we need to have a further clamp down on a legal coercive family voting and to

be honest, if that means putting police officers in polling stations, then that's what it means.

And thirdly, we need to ban and commonwealth voting. There are two and a half million people in our

country who can vote at our elections who are not British citizens. That is completely insane.

We need to end that. Do all those three things because the reality here is we will not save

our country unless we fix our democracy. And that is really the honest point that we need to

wrestle with. We need full-scale political reform before our democracy gets turned into some kind

of tribal, gerrymandered, sectarian system that looks more like it should be at home in a

temple dictatorship in Africa than the home of Magna Carta and individual liberty.

Dr David Betts, just finally, Matt, Dr David Betts has said the conditions in the UK are pretty

right for civil war. Should reform a party, believe you will stand again as an MP at the general

election, should reform win in 2029? What do you think it can realistically do? I mean, obviously,

there's going to be massive opposition, isn't there? We see even the most minor shifts being

resisted, really, by not just the Labour people, but by the media. What could a forage government do

to prevent suicide of the nation? Well, I said a meeting in North London recently sat next to an

82-year-old lady from the British Jewish community who talked to me all night about various things

and then at the end of the dinner turned not angry, not dramatic, and she just said if reform

doesn't win the next general election, we're leaving. And I was a bit taken aback because I said

leaving. She said, yeah, leaving the country, leaving the only home that she's ever known. And I

said, well, that is quite shocking. And she looked at me and she said, honey, everyone in this room

feels that way. And it was that sense that we are approaching an endpoint here. And I do really

believe and Nigel Farage has talked about this. We are in last chance saloon in this country because

if we're going to turn it around, we need to do a number of things very quickly. We need to end

the policy of mass uncontrolled immigration. We need to leave the European Convention on Human Rights

and we need to repeal Tony Blair's Human Rights Act so we can control our borders and disempower

an army of activists left wing lawyers. We need to ban Muslim Brotherhood. We need to ban the

Iranian Revolutionary Guards. We need to end welfare for people who are not British and social

housing subsidies for people who are not British. We need to reassure the hard working forgotten

majority strip out diversity equity and inclusion from our public institutions slash net zero,

lower the tax burden for small businesses remove regulation and actually get the life and

blood of our economy moving again. We also need to dramatically lower the amount of foreign aid

that we're spending about 13 billion pounds a year on condoms in Pakistan and cycling lanes in

Mexico while we're treating British people in hospital car parks and corridors. It's completely

outrageous. We need to start making better choices. Everything I've just said is in the reform

manifesto. Now, obviously I have a a bias, right? I support reform because I think it's the only

political party that is capable of turning the tide. And I would point out just if I may briefly

that at the recent by-election, there was a candidate to my right going even further than reform

talking in very casual, sloppy, extreme language about mass deportations and the removal of

British nationals. I would point out that that candidate attracted fewer votes and a monster

raiding loony party, right? That is that is not where the British people are. The British people

are reasonable. The British people are tolerant. The British people want fairness, but they

consent. Millions of people consents are being treated like second class citizens in their own

country. And this book is why on page one, I dedicate this book to those people I dedicated to

the forgotten majority because they are being treated like second class citizens. And that's not

acceptable. Well, they are buying your book, Matt, in huge numbers. And as you said in the book,

the ruling class reserves a special hatred, who's those who tell the truth about what is really

going on. So a little bit of advice for you, Matthew, when the police come to the door, say nothing.

Well, I'll call you. Thank you very much for being an ideal guest on planet normal. Thank you.

Interesting words as ever, Alison from Matt Goodwin. I do think he's come in for a bit of stick

unduly with people trying to attack the messenger rather than the message, but he's clearly taking

it in good spirits. It was good if you to question him on the use of AI and misquoting it and so on.

But this is really a function of a much bigger aspect of this book's publication. I think the fact

that it has gone to the top or very near the top, courtesy of an Easter bunny of the Amazon

nonfiction charts in the UK is very interesting because it's self-published. I've talked to Matt a

lot about this. He didn't feel that he'd get a fair crack of the whip from regular publishers.

And so he's self-published. The idea that he couldn't get a publisher is completely mad. He's

written over half a dozen books that are on various university reading lists, incredibly solid

pieces that bridge between academia and a broader audience. So he's already very much a published,

established author with very, very prestigious publishers behind him. But he decided in this case

that he didn't want to have the discussions with the editorial staff. He didn't want to have battles

with mainstream publishers that worried his book was a bit spicy. So he decided to self-publish

and he's got to the top of the Amazon charts or very near the top anyway. And I think that is

a major change because I think it is the case that over a number of years our publishing industry

has self-centered. You have sensitivity readers and all kinds of overly-lawored manuscripts

written by committee. You can't write a book by committee. I mean, we know we are authors, right? We

know what it's like. You cannot write a book by committee. And a lot of the kind of rogue publishing

industry in recent years has tried to impose committees on, you know, iconoclastic authors.

Publishing a book, you need a team, you need proof readers, it needs to be lowered obviously

when you're in the public arena to the extent Matt Goodwin is. But the fact that he decided to go

alone and the fact that his book is really so important in the national discourse and

selling to the extent that it is, even though he's self-published, maybe because he's self-published,

I think is a major kind of moment in the sort of British cultural and indeed journalistic

industry. Yes, absolutely. And you can imagine one of the young sensitivity readers,

can't you? Passing out some of Matt's chapters. I don't agree with everything he says. I

worry about some of the veering over intonativism. I wonder about this emphasis on how white

Britain will be in 60, 70 years. I'm not sure. I mean, you know, we've obviously got leading reform

figures like Zia Yusuf, Leila Cunningham, you know, British Muslims, they're British, right? They

are British. And if we start looking at skin colour, I agree with lots of it. One interesting

fact, Liam, is that JK Rowling's agent, very successful agent, obviously Neil Blair, is looking

at setting up a publishing house himself, which will be for people like Matt and all these people,

Lucy Connelly, all these people where there's sort of BNPonson publishing houses, you know,

extremely woke left wing ones would turn their noses up. But we're seeing with Matt, aren't we? How

he's really struck a huge chord. And there are a lot of people, as he says in the book, there are

enormous numbers of people not just on the right. And this is what's really interesting,

not just on, you know, Starmer's now just not, Starmer's not even using far right anymore. Today's

starmer was just using right wing as a pejorative, right? We can see what's Labour's strategy going

to be in the run up to May the seventh local elections, then in the run up to the general election.

He is just going to call reform racist and far right and right wing, but lots of people are

all he's got, name calling is all he's got. He's got nothing and he's going to be wiped out,

or that Labour's going to be absolutely eviscerated on the sense of being it really is going to be

so well deserved. But I think that Labour's refusal to confront what now, many of its

traditional working-class voters feel very acutely in their own lives, don't they, with the rapid

change of their, you know, their kids schools? By the way, I, you know, I did teacher training many,

many years ago now, and that was in Southall, very strong Asian area. In West London, yeah.

It was fascinating because a lot of the, particularly the Asian girls I was teaching were,

they were highly motivated kids, right? They were sitting in the front with the soreses and

all the Angela Rainies were at the back putting on their makeup, you know, filing their nails and

staring daggers at me. But it's difficult, Liam. And what Matt talks about is when you've got kids

where English isn't their first language and they're, you know, they're not coming from homes

with conversation and books, it disadvantages the British children, you know, the Indigenous

British children. A lot of the early wave into Southall and I grew up literally, you know,

not far up the road, a bike ride away. Yeah. And it was the same in Kingsbury or I grew up. A lot

of the early wave evasions, you know, many of whom I was at primary school with and my

best mates to this day, frankly, were Hindus. And the Hindus were very pro education, very pro

integration. You know, obviously they had their rituals and their culture and they were very

open about it and it was very enriching for all of us. And they didn't, they had an attitude to

girls where girls were, you know, as important as boys, girls were going to go off to university,

as the boys were going to go off to university. A lot of these inner city areas now, the predominant

population is Muslim. And of course, there are many Muslim who have exactly the same aspirations

for their daughters as they do for their sons. But there are quite a few that don't. And there

are quite a few that don't integrate and don't want their wives speaking English and taking part

in local community activities. So there has been a change. There has been a change. And I agree

with you. I think sometimes Matt Goodwin really does go quite far on the nativism. Though I do

think there's a lot of value in what he says. I do think Gorton and Denton is a major footnote

in political history and he helped that happen. Yeah, because he was such a strong candidate,

because he has got such a strong following. He almost forged the absurd green Islamic alliance.

Yeah, Zach Polansky dancing on a stage at a recent anti far right rally in London. And

Zach Polansky is literally there with blokes in SNM bondage gear. I mean, how's that going to go

down at the local mosque? In the end, the Muslim vote is so galvanized. It's so organized. It's

got demography on its side. It's growing all the time. They will just dispense with the greens

as and when they want to and need to. The greens are their play thing. How they must disdain

these ridiculous bourgeois poses who are treating British democracy like a kind of an extension of

the summer festival season to the horror of a lot of the population. And I do think as the greens

are more exposed that the idiocy of a lot of what they're saying is not even as if they're talking

about the environment these days. It's all foreign policy and it's all anti capitalism and it's

all you're not allowed to rent out your flat. I mean, it's all let's just print money. There's

a magic money tree. I mean, it's just ridiculous. And I do think it will be smoked out. And I do

think that this green Islamic alliance will break down under its own internal contradictions.

But just I think to say, I thank you to Matt Goodwin because I think his idea that the country

that so many of us love will be gone unless mass immigration is reversed and very, very strong

limits set for British values and defending our way of life.

Now until I listen to emails, the message is you send us a planet normal at telegraph.co.uk. Please

keep them coming. We learn so much from you. The citizens of planet normal. Lots and lots of

emails coming in on the NHS as we talked about on the top. This is from Claire. The case of Sandy Peggy,

the nurse who found herself in dispute with five health board over her objection to a male doctor,

dressed in female clothing, using the women's changing rooms, is instructive as to the NHS's

priority, says Claire. The 20-something equality and diversity officer who gave evidence at the

hearing was reported to be paid as salary in the range of 50 to 59,000 Sandy Peggy and nurse

of many years experience of practical patient care was on a salary scale of somewhere between 30

and 40,000. Absolutely, absolutely ridiculous. And this is from Derek. This is a familiar story.

My wife and I looked on as a major NHS hospital effectively killed an elderly friend of my wife.

She had severe curvature at the spine and many excruciating painful and seemingly mostly

undetected features. My wife's friend was a retired nurse as is my wife. And what they experienced

under NHS care was completely unrecognizable to them both as proud retired nurses. So after a

fall, my wife's friend was admitted. You walk into the modern hospital and there there are statues

and mission statements emblazoned in the lobby that talk of compassion, respect, and dignity

and pride. But where's the nurse in gone? So that's absolutely great. And this is from my,

actually, this is really interesting. My wife says, we are finding getting to see a GP increasingly

difficult with a two-week wait being common if you could get to see one at all. More often,

you will be triaged to a nurse. At one stage, we could message our GP through the NHS app.

That facility has now been removed. My wife needed a physio appointment. The wait time was over

four weeks. The GP service is becoming more and more difficult to access, which may be one reason

why more people are using A&E. I guess this is the new NHS strategy to take the pressure of the

NHS as Mike. Thanks to Alison Liam for your excellent podcast and keeping us sane.

This is from Luke, not his real name. In April, my business has this lot to deal with,

a 4% increase in the minimum wage, an 8.5% increase in business rates, a 38% rise in gas

unit costs, a 50% increase in gas standing charge. Other increases include, says Luke,

nationally insurance, plus God knows how much more to fill the van up every week. Why aren't

I taking on new staff, the government wonders? You tell me. And then this is Mark from Manchester,

Dear Alison and Liam, what a pleasant surprise to have waited me on opening the daily

telegraph app on Saturday morning, expecting more international doom and gloom,

more in raging news on that dreadful, droning, deadweight, masquerading. The

Prime Minister is every utterance, a non-prime hot air incident. But no, says Mark, instead,

I was faced with the image of a Lycra-clad gym goddess, an athletic Alison telling us all about

her fabulous gym journey and the joys and benefits of lifting weights, who to thank it.

A story of decreasing jabs and increasing gym, it made my day. I too started weights a year or

so ago, says Mark from Manchester and can definitely back up what super swell Alison says,

niggling eggs and pains have disappeared. I feel stronger, fitter, and more confident all around,

and more power to you, Alison. Keep up the good work. You look fab. And what of Liam? Well,

he'll soon be on his bike ride, taking on his annual challenge for charity,

cycling 300 kilometres from London to Paris for Duchenne, muscular dystrophy in 24 hours.

Will he to be featured in the telegraph with inspirational photos to boot? And will he

and Alison take on a new merchandising opportunity and treat us all to a calendar with each month

featuring an inspirational shot of our trusty, powerful podcasting co-pilots matching their

intellectual might with their athletic prowess, only time will tell. Keep up the good work,

you athletes, and of course, a million thanks for the superb podcast, which keeps my spirits up.

Mark from Manchester. Good man. Good man. I'm not being on the tandem with you. Imagine you at the

front. You'd be so bloody bossy, wouldn't you? Terrible. Can you imagine my little legs trying to keep

up with you? Let's both stare on the tandem shower. Let's stare by committee, shall we?

Finally, this is from John. Hi, Alison, Liam. It was quite amusing to see Rachel and Ed

summoning the petrol retailers to the headmaster's study for dressing down on price gouging,

thus displaying complete ignorance of how the petrol market works as John. The retailers make less

than was it 10% profit on petrol, whilst the government takes 50% in fuel duty and VAT.

Who is the price gouger here, says John? As well as the usual laws of supply and demand,

the price of petrol is also affected by wholesale and distribution costs by local competition

pressure. The retailers also take huge financial risks by buying long, if they think wholesale

prices will rise in the future and buying short, if they think prices will fall.

When they get this wrong, it hits their profit margins significantly. Wouldn't it be nice,

as John, to have a government understands how business and markets work, unlike the current

bunch of student politicians? And on that bombshell acid from planet normal, as we leave our

sanctuary of sweet reason, our flying refuge of reasoned views email week is my turn. It's

got to be marked from Manchester. A city close to my heart marks send us an email to

plan normal telegraph.co.uk, put mug winner in the subject heading and we will send you your rare

as rocking horse poo, planet normal mug. And if you've enjoyed this episode of Planet Normal,

please do subscribe and leave a review and rating, we really like reading those to cheer ourselves

up. And thanks finally to our producers, Casho, James Hodgson and Louise the Wells, stay safe and

in touch with us and with each other. Until next week, it's goodbye from me. You're not having

my Jerry can and it's goodbye from him. Spelt Otter like.