The Matt Sleep Interview with Throwing Fits

0:00our guest this week, disproves the notion that you snooze, you lose. Wait the fuck up people, because this man has collaborated with Tower the Creator, Virgil Abelow and hundreds of other partners. So you know his impact can't be slept on. And yes, there will be many more sleep puns throughout the episode. Stepping into the studio with Big Bean Town energy, thanks to our friends at Converse here to chat 20 years in the sneaker game, sending fit picks with his job applications. And the best collabs he's ever worked on. We're here with the design director of energy at Converse, Matt sleep, Matt. How the hell are you? I am fantastic. The way I am 100% awake, I will say I can sleep fucking anywhere. Absolutely. Anyway, it's in the name sleep by nature. It must be the reason why somehow this was the family lineage. Thank you so much for having me. Both of you. It is an honor and a pleasure. Wow. What a professional gentleman. It gracious as well. I try. Yes. If you haven't noticed, I am English. It's boiler alert. The politisk guy in Boston, possibly. Yeah. Probably. Yeah. Probably. Do they hate you because you're British in Boston?

1:00I am the butt of many jokes. Yes. And deservedly so. I have to stand back. I thought you'd go. A scoreboard, scoreboard. It did. I think the World Cup did not help me. Maybe also the Scottish were very much welcomed into Boston. Yes. Rightly so, just to be clear, rightly so. But, you know, the Scots obviously have a special sort of love for the English. Yes. As you will find out in coming up soon. Was it harder to get a beer in town when the Scots invaded? Apparently the town was drunk dry as were at least one or two airlines. I don't know. I'm not a massive big guy myself. So I was fine. They're not going for the fancy cocktails and the wine. We got. I'm awesome. Yeah. If I can beer with dry and then there were traffic cones everywhere. I think they kind of, I mean, I'm going to get killed for this. They kind of have the same banter as the English. The thing is they do it in a much more charming accent. Yeah. I think I guess it's debatable, but yeah, they think they get away with a bit more mischief. All right. Shout out to the Scots. Shout out.

2:01Shout out. And all those traffic cones to help with, I would imagine a influx of crazy drunk driving. I would imagine. Well, I potentially so, I do believe it took about less than a week for Boston to get like twins with Glasgow or some sort of nice thing like that. Beautiful. It was top news. Yeah, that's it. The cultural exchange is wonderful. Speaking of which, we would love to hear what you were today, Matt, in a little fit check, I would imagine, or maybe, maybe you want to start at the bottom or work you way there. I feel like it's appropriate that I started the bottle and start with the, with the older feet, the old belt them up there. Sorry, just kick you in the face. So yeah, shame on me if I wasn't wearing converse today. Yeah. So I am wearing a pair of the first drink JAPA cells. So first drink range, a little bit more. I'll kind of elevate your crossmanship, kind of range. So we get to kind of remaster some of our icons and the JAPA cell being an amazing one. That's quite honestly quite close to my heart. So started there, also I'm not getting any younger. My back health isn't what it once was. So it's important to have something comfortable under my feet, the premium.

3:04I need the premium elevation. I need to help risk now. Also, it's absolutely health risk. Also, it gives me that little extra height as you know, just I am not that tall as a person. I like to, my driving license is six foot. It is a lie. I will tell you that right now. Thanks for coming. I'm a good show. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, just a metric in period of things really, really not my strong suit. Okay. I am very, I'm definitely not an homeless guy. I will say that right straight away right now. So yeah, start with the JAPA cells. The socks, I think if I remember correctly, these are some old rotototox. Love me a naturally, you know, naturally undied kind of cotton sock, something, you know, just above the ankle, not too high, not too low, just right. But a slouch. Goldie socks. Yes, indeed. Goldie socks indeed. I think sock is very important. It is, you know, the compliment to your shoe, to your foot. So, you know, you've got to keep those things feeling good. I mean, arguably even more important, the pants. The pants are important.

4:05These are vis-vim X wide chinos, size five, because I can't get in anything smaller. We're right there with you brother. Not that we're buying vizm because we can't afford it, but if we were, we'll be satisfied. It's impossible. It is a expensive problem to have. I will say that. Addiction. Sorry. Possibly. Yes, probably one of a couple, yes. I'm an expensive addiction to have and I think my wife doesn't appreciate it, but here we are. How many days, we're going to talk about vizm, and obviously converse, bunch of things. How many days a week are you in converse viz? I mean, every day of the week I'm in converse for sure. And most weekends, I would say probably overall, generally like a year, probably 90% of my time is spent in converse, I would say maybe 5 to 8% is spent in boots and brown shoe type thing, mostly vizvim, yes. And then the other small, whatever that leaves, like 2 to 5%, I would say like Nike runners, Nike vintage runners, that type of thing. You are a numbers guy. I think that added to a number. I can bet. I can just about count, yes. Just enough that I can color it.

5:06I can color it improperly, yes. The 21th converses are. Yeah, exactly, yes, when I've got the five things. Vizvim, 70s a week. Yeah, pretty much there's always going to be a vizvim something in the outfits. It's always head to toe vizvim. I won't lie, there are some other complimentary brands. I'm probably still one of those people that kind of abides by whatever you want to call it brand synergy, maybe complimentary brands. You won't ever see me wear a brand that I don't think is or works with somewhere in the relationship with the journey of vizvim. So vintage stuff, a lot of old LL being right, get a lot, just our proximity to May and where my wife and I always up in May. So I think that's been lucrative for me in terms of the vintage and thrifting and that type of thing. All LL being carbonized, ism. I think so, yes. I think from the outdoor perspective, I think a lot of the iconic silhouettes I think of of vizvim, they're all based on old workwear and luxury and outdoor staples. I don't think it's rocket science. I think it's their contemporary twist on it. I think that's much like what we're doing with the JAPA cell as well. I'd say it's like that balance, right? It's a little bit like future familiar. I like to call it or whatever have you know where it came from.

6:08No, I could dance a bit. There you go. You can trademark that one. I don't even know. I think I probably stole it from the future. Future from the New York. I probably stole it. Bang or my friend Paul. So, shout out Paul. Shout out Paul. Shout out Paul. Can you turn it up? What's on the torso? Yeah, on the torso. I'm a white tea guy. I've always been a white tea guy. I've gone through different phases like many people of white teas. So right now? In the 90,06 where you were the white teas down your knees. Not quite that long, but I do like a long, I do like a semi-tool tea. I want the American phenomenon of the tool tea. About the back of your feet. Right. Like I think it's me. It's probably more my... What do you go to white teas? Because this is a debate. It is a constant debate. Right. I know you guys have it. Right now, since pandemic, I've been a comfort colors guy. Oh, classic. Oh, for colors. Come for colors today. I think the whole of New England and any small boutique or eatery that is doing merch uses comfort colors. That was my gateway in being like, or I like the way the weight. I've gone through phases.

7:08I've done the velvety, I've done the merch, be shran, shran, shran, shran. I've got the pronunciation. I've lived in Germany. I've done it. I've done it. I've done the Ralph Lauren like three-pack crewnet. Oh, a little pony. Yeah, with a little pony. You used to do that for a long time. They got a little bit too light for me. I've done my pain sing trip a lot of things. You always came back to coffee stores. I mean, I'll be honest, I didn't mess with comfort colors before pandemic time. Right. And then since then, I haven't done anything. It's good enough for merch. It's good enough for us, right? Yes, indeed. It is. And they have nice colors, even though white is my preference. They do variations of white. Okay, we won't clip that out. What else? Going up, our belts, Visvim, the shirt, Visvim, Keezy shirts. Assuments based on the name is based on the literary person. I'm not very well read. You know more than me. It's the guessing, I look at the pictures, like that design guy.

8:08I mean, I think that's always the bloody guessing game of Visvim as well as until it's just like what's this is named after someone. Is it a film character? Is it like an iconic person somewhere? The Logan shoes they have Wolverine. I mean, I like to. I fucking love Marvel, man. I look picture in the picture as well. You look at the picture. Yeah, here is guy, yeah, exactly. And then this? This, yeah, a little bit of Goro's. Goro's on top, Goro's underneath as well. Was it a Goro's guy? Did you read the Goro's? Did you read the Goro's? Did you read the Goro's? Sorry. Do you get these in your pen? Absolutely. How long do you have to wait? I have been lucky enough to have had friends that have taken me. If I'm sound privileged for two seconds. I've not brought all of them in person. Some in person. Some have been nicely proxied for me by friends. Biggest collection. It's what you're seeing plus a small amount for my wife. Okay. But not very much. Not very. It's. It's. And she doesn't wear it either. Matt used first. Yeah.

9:08100%. And she appreciates it in a different way. She appreciates it in a different way. Yeah, I mean, the daily drivers for me. It's part of the uniform. I think I feel a little naked without it for better or worse. And I think it's also the love of the patina over time. So a common theme for me kind of things. I like things that are more broken in more worn in kind of thing. Does your wife wear Vizbim? Hand me downs for me. I fuck up and like the grailed perch or eBay purchase. Yeah. Because obviously if it's in store it's fine, right? But I'm not always trying to get a deal. I'm always trying to low balls. Of course. You know, that is the thing. So she has pieces that have been. Did she know how much things cost? Oh, she sure she does right now, right? She does. She does. She says it's critical. She understands that I think we have a very transparent relationship. She's very supportive of that to a fault. And I try and do the same. But yeah, it's she's well. Some rings mostly costume jewelry by my wedding ring, which is opti lovely female designer out of outer London.

10:08So I thought if my wife can have two rings I can as well. Why not? That's cool. And they like sit. It's like a set. Exactly. That's cool. And she takes a lot of inspiration from kind of nature, natural form, that type of thing. So I can translate it nicely into jewelry. And I think it's a tough thing getting a wedding ring and something that you can wear every day. A lot of guys fucked that up. Yes. Yes. The black kind of the mad black ring is that's brutal. That's not for me. No. Silver guy. We'll do a little bit of gold as you can see in places. Yeah. Yeah. The rest of it's kind of costume jewelry not too expensive. I'm very, I'm very handsy, especially on the keyboard. I'm frashing the keyboard. People hear me a floral way. Right. So, you know, it's got to take a lot of heavy duty wear. And then Cody Son of some bracelet on the right. And then this one I got from Santa Fe last year went to an artist's ankle. Tom, I forget his son. I'm assuming you went to the Visum store in Santa Fe. I did. I did. I did. I went to Visum store. I went to Shiprock. I went to the hot spots.

11:08I went to a Santa Fe vintage, which was probably my dream. A little bit more so maybe than the Visum. So I love the Visum store. Right. I love the Visum store's a curative very nicely, but I think it's also nice to have the surprise a little bit. The not know, you know, not exactly know what you're going into purchase. Do a little digging, you know, do a little digging like a giant shoe in it. Is that still there? That's in the LL. Yeah, in the downtown L.A. store. Big S FBT. About a year or so, but it was there last time. I mean, it's quite impressive. I mean, it's, it's, I mean, it's, it's, I mean, it's, it's more than I can fit on the credit card, I believe. I'm quite impressed to actually how, you know, I think that, I think it was made by the, the, the, the artisans, obviously, that are normally making the moccasins. So, you know, to do it at that scale is just from a pure, just like footwear geeking out. Right. The second standpoint, I'm like, it's a functional shit. It's pretty, yeah, it's pretty fucking nicely built. You must have seen that. As a, as a footwear designer, and be like, well, Jesus Christ. Oh no, 100%. I went straight over there trying to take a tourist picture. They think they're like, what's trying to kick me out the store at the same time. I was like, no, we'll buy something.

12:08I promise. No, it's amazing. I mean, you're up there kind of rubbing it like this is on my life. Yeah. I'm just staying here for the winter, but it's a cuddling egg. Is the hat this as well? No, old air bits field, just a nice ripstop that is cotton ripstop that's played over time. Speak of the tiniest, you know, I'm just cooked brother. Yeah, no, really cooked. And I mean, the more cooked the better kind of thing, I see you. I don't like, I mean, don't get me wrong. I understand that the beauty of a new thing and you item the ready to, to whatever break it in, make that story dead at her. But I prefer something that's broken. You also got a hair tie on the wrist. Yes, I do. Beautiful mane. What's the hair regiment? What's shampoo's and conditioners and the car. Are you an anti-shampoo guy? There is a rotation of three different sets in the shower, which my wife and I, I would say one is more coded to her, one is more coded to me, and one is more shed. I am between Wanda Valley, lovely, lovely brand. They do like olive oils and stuff, but they also do really nice like championship conditioners. And then like, I don't know what's the other one called like, R plus Co, or something like that.

13:11Head shoulders. Yeah, head and shirt, yeah, head and shirt T gel. Everyone's in a while just making sure, you know, five in one. Yeah, of course. Five in one. Shampoo condition, a little bit of, you know, a bit of hair cream, bit of beard oil. You know, a hairy guy in general. I realized that I have the ability to pick up odour, so I want to always make sure that I do sensitive senses. Yeah, my wife get a lot of chowder, a lot of chowder in the beard. I know that is the, probably the definition of the thing that I don't like or don't want. Chowder? Yes, clam chowder. Chowder kid. Yes, I do not want any chowder. Not baked beans. How's the boss and baked beans stack up to the baked beans back home? No, it's not. I think that's probably the number one thing that I miss in like a food context from the UK is like a pro. Not the beans, but like a full English breakfast. I mean, it's great. It has their own, it's their own rear-fetch bit of more of a Irish connotation, I guess you would say.

14:11Yeah. But I guess it gives me a slight feeling of ish being at home, but not the same. Not the same. Not the same at all. It is the main thing that I miss, I guess. What are the panties that you're wearing? Are they vis-vim? Well, sorry. Oh, actually, my box is short. No, always hains. Okay. Yes. But I want to look like the, yeah, here you go. You want to, I don't know if you want to see that. I have those. I have those. From the same pack. I have the red one. Just three options, guys. It's blue, green and red. It's different. There's a orange and green. I don't know the orange and green. With the black. With the black. In the red tartan, there's a black and purple and green. There's the blue. I want to have those. Yeah. There's rare colors. It's on me on. So there you go. I've always been a, yeah, I've always been a hains boxer's guy. I'm always in a plaid chair. Free range meat. Free range meat. It needs to breathe and have a certain, yes. Yes, 100%. Exactly. From on the list. Yeah, exactly. You're on the list. You're on the list. You're on the onto the list of a noted box wearing individuals that collude the home of Yoke and far legacy Tony soprano, rental wood rentals woodcock from the threat.

15:15Old dirty bastard. Great company. Fantastic company. So a bunch of other guests. All right, fit check complete your annual drinking a very milky. I love to. Yes, very, yeah. Yeah, no, long. Long. I'm a coffee guy. I'm not a tea guy. Yeah, good. Yeah. All right. Let's back it up. So your job is design director of energy at converse. What does energy at converse mean? I think broadly put the lights on. Yes. It's funny. You say that quite literally. I would say 50% of the messages I get on LinkedIn are people trying to connect about how converse can save on their. Wow. That's awesome. I will actually like that's actually a real thing. They're like, yo, can we talk to about this? Like, you know, the quoting stuff at me. And I'm like, oh, no, got it. Yeah, this is not that. Like, okay. So you can see how it's confusing. Even if I don't understand that the terminology can be confusing. And that's fine, I guess. And I, it's funny. I respond to most of them. I guess kind of, but simply put. I am part of of the conduit for all our amazing creative partners to kind of realize their

16:19creative visions through product through footwear for the most part. And yeah, really kind of make their conversations come true. It's part story telling. It's part fucking engineering, part designing, part talking, communicating. You know, and I think that's, that's the fun thing keeps you. You're managing? You go back 100%. Mostly mine. No, I mean, you know, everybody's, everybody's different, right? And you have to have a little bit of that in you right. You have to be able to talk to, to, to different people in different ways. I think that still means being yourself, obviously. Sure. Yeah. And everybody takes things differently, reacts to things differently, people have different process, but keeps me on my toes. That's, that's, you know, one of the main things. I'm sure the British playness is, is helpful in like, I'd like to think so. I think, I think people are, I think it does, I think it does help a bit. I think, you know, I've found generally in my 18 years here that, that, that the accent is, oh, yeah, it does okay at times. I'm so charmerly befuddled, but yeah. Exactly. Yeah, the huge part. What did he say? Exactly. Just agree. What did he say with, with, with, you know, I think, you know, I don't know.

17:22No, no, no. Can't just determine the difference at all. Yeah. I have had many conversations with my wife about what I will call the seaworth. Sure. And just to be very clear. Is she British? She is not, she is American. She's American. I'm telling American. So the seaworth allowed her to not allowed in the sleep household. I think it's allowed. I don't really use it. Also knowing probably at some point, my mom is going to track this down and listen to it, my mom. I do not use it. Shout out mom. So it's case by case with the C word case by case. I do think though that we have a different grasp and usage of the word Then the context is yes, Marica. I think we use it very into for sure It's a tournament there are very many different. Yeah, there's levels to it. I think And it's good on that tone is very important emphasis. Yes Contest so that's a lot of English was like work with Tyler creator amazing amazing. I can't speak highly enough of Tyler I mean it's Nine years now. I'm still going. I have to let's have your tenure. It is half my tenure at converse I think and quite honestly some of the best in my tenure at converse

18:25I think he's probably the longest running partner I've ever worked with certainly one of our longer kind of Friends of the brand and custodians of the brand and honestly just amazing. I think I was surprised by a couple of things. I think for me the level of Just intimacy and and and and access I guess like somebody of that level and milk and He's very personable and you know and and and is very down to the charmer. He not as much as me, but yes of course And I think just a fucking multi-talented Disciplinarian shall we say in the creative sense? Like very impressed by that. Did you click right away? Did it take like a little like to do the dance? No, I mean there's always a little bit of dance always but I think it was quite instantaneous with us I think kind of the first time we met I was a little Surprised by his presence. He was maybe a little bit. I was quite impressed. He was a early-to-meeting And I think it was just a very natural exchange between us. It was just very like he's quite Funny and pantherous so am I so I think you know you hit it off on the humor side

19:27I find humor is a great universal level of right. I mean obviously there's other things We're not just working with people that we find funny or right, you know, I would hope that but It's hilarious. It was crazy if that was your metric but Connors Joe Rogan No, no, no, he's not funny but but no, I think like very endearing and Yeah, I mean very talented guys. So what's I mean creatively speaking what how is his like process or how's his brain even different from anyone else that you Ever worked with? I mean, I think just that he can turn it to so many different things at one time kind of thing I think he can I mean he's he's obviously doing you know, it does amazing things in music right? Obviously like you know, we started to see him do do do other things outside of those areas as well You know, obviously he's been a creative partner russ creating product for such a long time and he does all of that shit simultaneously And I think for me like I don't think I'd have the capacity to to balance people don't And doing a good fucking way and I know you've got a whatever they say break a couple of eggs to make an omelette and that type of thing

20:28But like yeah, I'm very impressive that his ability to To do that and range in the eight years had like because he's kind of like grown up himself like with the brand How do you see in like the the product like progress or change? I think quite quite honestly and naturally with the things He's been interested in and I think that's that's something I love about him that kind of Honesty and authenticity. It's not a performative in a way that's like you know the thing that you're seeing from us doing together Is the other thing that like he loves it's how many loves many things right and we do me have those conversations and I think that's That's just been very nice and I think like oh any and all of us right he's very aware that His style will evolve and progress as you get older as your experience in more things and we've kind of grown together Which I think is the really really nice thing and I think you see that through the through the product and partnership when you work with like a A bold face name individual you is it you give them like carte blanche and just like y'all go crazy or do you kind of like guide them? Do you just say no to quit some of the wild ideas or all of those things? I think it's always dependent upon the person and

21:31What they need for their creative process as well. I think we have to be malleable and fluid for that There's I mean, I like to and we like to have people express themselves like tell us their stories They have with us why they work with us why they want to work with us same thing why we like them I think if you don't have a mutual respect and a little bit of a story together in some way shape performing There's not many people who don't have a converse story then it's not really worth doing otherwise, but um You know, I think like at the same time Yeah, you have to guide not everybody's an expert in shoes So don't they're quite tough things to make and make well So I don't expect that and that's where we can give our expertise But also, you know, we have the benefit and privilege of having what many people sing a lot of things sing a lot What you can do the pitfalls the learnings the mistakes which is Probably always where you do better afterwards and I think yeah, you have to use you to like a lot of them You had to they're doing something and you know it's gonna you fuck up Do you have to like let them make the mistake since it's their first time? We're gonna shoot I think we yes, I think you learned together. I think it's I'm always a big A big supporter of like I'd rather go much further at the beginning and kind of dial something in dial a product in then or range in then

22:39Not go far enough at the beginning and I'd be like, yeah, we should oh should we have done that right? No regrets Like even if it's some wacky shit at the beginning and then you start to refine that I think I had to better process generally doesn't work for everybody, but um But yeah, I think I think that that That helps I would say what was like working with Virgil Abel? Amazing also amazing Different process to Tyler for sure. I would say I'd spend more time in Tyler than I have with Virgil But I think that's a beauty of Virgil as well That his accessibility right whether he was I mean he was always on the road somewhere Um, but never dropped the ball never was always in touch was always For me, I think he exposed it or not exposed maybe just showed a different part of the process of creating things I think for me it was he made actually Maybe a silly analogy, but like we all like cover the sausage, but like he made the process of how the sausage gets made kind of sexy And process was the process yeah, and like mate and romanticize that and kind of expose the beauty the craft the learnings the failure the fuck up Like like something doesn't need to be perfect aesthetic to still mean something or whatever

23:42And then also I think it was like the accessibility She gave and fought for a lot of creatives and a lot of people that wouldn't have got a fucking chance We started otherwise he did he did and like that might not be everybody's you know thing Or might he might not be everybody's cup of tea or aesthetic whatever But I think you can't deny the power of the message and the power of the intention of the work and It honestly was a privilege to work with him and he put I think he pushed us in great places And we pushed him and it was it was great As I remember the partner where you had you were evangelizing for them, but like maybe internally you had to really fight for them Because you believed in it, but maybe like the larger machine wasn't so sure I mean that happens from time to time. Yes, I mean that's part of our job though and part of our responsibility We shouldn't expect everybody to know especially you know That's what we're employed to do to be to be you know to be this conduit to be part You know, it's a sense of check with that within the culture and out in the culture of fashion and art and music and all these You know subcultures and I think quite honestly a little bit I'd be upset if there wasn't a little bit of that Pushback or conversation why it means people are listening and they can they want to know more but to also like

24:47if they did know directly like all the things about the partner then actually maybe I don't know maybe it's not the right partner Maybe we didn't shock and surprise enough or challenge enough in a way and I think I mean that's that you know Good tension right that back and forth. I think that's where you get to to better things And is that why Jason Statham Converse has never happened yet? I'm still working on that. Yeah, so I am thank you for bringing that up because I will need your viewership to support that You know, you know, Converse is always yes, please He is my idol He's obviously my idol you guys are like opposites though in terms of like hair We are we are indeed so I can't you're the anti-Jace I'm the anti-Statham I'm I'm I'll take that I'll actually take that that's that somewhere back Have you dreamed about what a statham Converse collab would look like it would have to be very fucking resilient Mounds of things that the mountainistic or the amount of like doors and faces that person kicks He is my idol

25:47The fact that you don't ever have to do a different accent and play the same character in every film is like I mean, that's the definition of honesty isn't it and just Good in your mind into every statham movie take place in the same universe. Oh, yes No, it does no, it was a foreign transporter now. He's like a beekey now and then the mechanic absolutely yeah 100% I mean, I would like to think it's like one of those, you know, Marvel multiverse I mean, I mean just if anybody from Marvel does follow you guys. I would love statham in like proper Did I just put it in a photo? Yeah, that's true. That's for this top three statham movies. Oh Transporter So first breakthrough For me probably the first one I was really taking fucking crank Crazy though crank there's like crank crank to it. Let's create to it was fucking nuts Weirdly, I know it's not maybe just his film, but like I love expendables give you other expendables film Uh, and weirdly, I know you said it, but like it's you know, it's a contemporary classic um the beekeeper obviously

26:51I want to be keeper to make it happen guys make it happen. Yeah, is that the anti-crypto one? Like producer scammers. Yeah. Yes. I felt all I know is he's a fucking beekey The statham coming out party was snatch that's what that's snatch, but that's not a yes It's not a statham fit. I mean that's a richy amazingness. I had best. Yeah, just wanted to be clear Yeah, you like eggs All right, so Jason say them. What's that? So it's gonna be a resilient sneaker sneaker It's probably easy wipe down, I think Um probably you know just because right a lot of blood on that bitch. Yeah a lot of body fluids gonna get spilled in terms of a violent sense I mean obviously and then you know, maybe a little maybe we give him a little platform Like just bring him up a little bit. I don't believe he's the tallest of chaps either. Yeah, um, I could be wrong Uh, I don't know what he's driving He was a diver he was a diver, but I don't think you need to wear shoes for that. Do you?

27:52I mean, I feel like Maybe maybe maybe actually make make maybe just cost him as James Bond there we go Then he's on the flip as he does the little underwater thing down for that Yeah, I don't think he's on the short list, but we have time for I think don't think so either, but you know Let's pitch whoever Amazon. What's the what collab have you worked on and there's been hundreds right? There's been a lot. There's been a lot. Yes. What collab have you worked on that you think is the most slept on because we talked about the big I like one that obviously but like You're part of arts. Yeah. Oh, I guess to come to mind I don't know if this is just like Matt sleeps, you know world and it's really true But I think all sleep slept on my sleep slept on don't sleep fucking probably come tease with Sonja Sonja sombre. Yeah, we did a couple of collections with her which were amazing But the first one I think was like pandemic time. So it was you know tough pandemic We're beginning a pandemic and that type of thing Really being able to I think you know, we live and thrive of having you know in in real life type Type things and I think it took all of us a bit of time to adjust

28:53I'd also probably say if I do a little UK shout out to an old friend Andrew bunny his jury brand bunny name st brand so we work with him on the jack pyssel for two seasons I want to say who around 2016 don't quote me on that because I could be wrong But we work with him we work with lint and tweed like the iConnection else And kind of did some story telling through the medium of a little bit kind of the medium of fabrics and sales and some of some of the other details It kind of a true to him as a brand. So I think like a lot of people Yeah, I think a lot of people maybe don't don't know we didn't make many pairs I kept it kind of limited. So I think probably both of those come to mind. How do you judge Where do you mean care like Yeah, how do you measure the success of like a collaborative project you worked on? Is it the sales numbers is it just like you're just proud of the product? I mean, you have to be proud of the product first and foremost. I mean, if you're not fucking proud of the product I mean you can't absolutely everything but you try and you work as hard as as you can to to be proud of it I think that's a non-negotiable. I think it's different metrics for different things different projects have different reasons for being

29:57Some are more to just say hey fuck it we can do this We should do this. No, some yes. I mean, we are a business right we're gonna make some money as well So some are a little bit more commercially led Um, there's a stethome conference and there's then there's still fashion I don't know if that's a high volume play Um, we'd be yeah, you put them in the in the next fashion furious in those Uh, that actually be fine amazing. I'm driving shoe that we're driving shoe that we've now in a hair All right, we've nailed it here. All right. Well, the brand trust you guys don't worry. Who do we know? We'll take 10% Yeah, on the state them driving shoe converse There's a guy good you can use it my percent happy with this Oh my gosh, fuck it out. Yeah, there's definitely a very British person that would love that shoe Well, I get that's true. That's true. I've done my You know nice mid cut like lower ankle just above the ankle sure bit of swayed in there. Yeah, low profile Yeah, this is it There we go. There we go. I see this is you guys trying to

30:58You know, we'll start we'll start the incubator full process together Speaking of your brain. Oh, what's up about your latest project? Yes What are you most stoked on with the jack per cell podium? Oh, so many things Where to fucking start we don't probably have long enough even on your guys long format I would probably say first and foremost a shape I think for me I've won a lot of jacks There's many different expressions of jack over the different areas both and astoundingly from an archival sense also in Modern history. I think for me Um, you know, it was important to have something which was proportionately right not only for the fit right um But at the same time just for I think it was our time to do that for jack I think we've done many expressions. I think the last expression we did was maybe a little bit more slender for one of the better way saying it And I think it was right especially for where we're at for like um what people need like foot health wise these days like you want You don't want to fucking hurt your feet anymore. You know, you want your feet to it to breathe Uh, and that was important and that's part of the shape of the shoe and I think that was where we Probably put most time in like the single one thing

31:59You're also kind of the right size and and heftiness and chockiness of like contemporary pants Yes, yes, and I think for me that is an important thing personally subjectively as well Where and I try and put a little bit of me into every conversing as well as like it needs to I needed a bit more something with a bit more umph I guess what when you're in the lab you're considering actively pants you interaction Yes, I'm not just pant and not just pant as well. I mean like you know Uh, obviously for us Scottish friends kilt um, but obviously for the lady you know, dress isn't skirt She's in a shoe interaction Um, but no and it's important for us, you know, we sample him and some women's sizes Want to have him on both sides of feet as well because I think you know The shoe does go through a lot of sizes and it does transform a lot through that and you want to make sure this consistency And like it still looks fucking good and as you're intended Right can we just ask you a quick like the expert who who was jack person? Uh, I'm assuming it's a there was a guy the man. He is a guy. Yes, John Edward a K jack person Okay, Canadian legend if you asked my father his second favorite Canadian after Celine Dion

33:05I think the craze getting up there though. I was gonna say people might like a word I drink or the weekend Jim carry you know, well I like Myers Yeah, I don't know the other jack person. Yeah, so he was Canadian he was Canadian Canadian He was a Baminton player originally so he was a world champion Baminton player Um, like many top athletes of the time and when I say the time we're talking like 30s 20s and 30s So a little while ago Um, that wasn't your only job right you didn't make enough money to just being a professional athlete Shuttle cocks I did you did not get paid enough to spank shuttlecocks. That is a hundred percent true fun fact my dad's actually a Baminton player So he will love to hear you say spank shuttlecock Um, it didn't want me to back then It is I'm sure there was money. I'm sure there was a version That being said he was quite a swive chap actually quite a charismatic fucker they might say His nickname was actually the smiler Because he was that charismatic on and off the court So that's why at the front of the shoe if people aren't aware there is this on the front of the shoe

34:09There is this whopping big smile because that actually is his nickname and namesake kind of thing off off the court and I think it was I think that's a very rare thing right where you have a shoe which had in bodies like actually some physical personality of the person It comes from I think the other interesting thing that many people don't know is like yeah He broke all these records, but like as a sports person, but actually the shoe itself is the first ever Signature like endorsed athlete shoe for racket sports ever in the world And the second in terms of all sports What's the first the first is a running spike from Adi I forget the exact spike or actually name but But Jack's like right out there. So A fun guy like a real real fun guy. Yeah, and a well-dressed chap as well Just never without Chino sure he played in pants. Yeah literally played in Chino's with a tucking button down Oxford shirt Save the world Jackie supreme I mean when we think of Congress the Chuck obviously we've seen it It's the most photographed shoe fucking in the world probably ever

35:12Has the Jack Purcell grace the dogs of legends and goats like the Chuck Taylor has oh 100% 100% I mean you have the probably the very obvious ones right the James Deans of this world Jimmy Dean right Steve McQueen Steve McQueen obviously absolutely probably one of my favorites Kirk Cobain right probably the first real True point where Jack went into kind of counter culture and subculture a little bit And then weirdly or interestingly enough. I was just talking to our archivist We have a lovely archivist go called Sam back at work and he was telling me he just dug up some documentation on earnest Hemingway being a Jack Purcell love So I was like okay, and he just see this shit. This is the sounds cool big dog And then ironically I said back to him. I said well my wife and I have been on a 90s movies kick recently So kind of rewatching all classics or things maybe we missed and we were watching the Thriller that is the net this weekend. Okay gone by with Sandra Bullock And instantly she is sporting a lovely semi fresh pair of white canvas Jack Purcells who are a lot of that film so

36:16Hemingway to Sandra Bullock is the range that you get to my yes yes It's quite the rain indeed indeed that indeed that so I think and that's a beauty of it And I think there's and and the fact that just like just that where like you know the archivist can be like You know I just found this out like yes The week I actually have an Austin this busking I don't know I get this this man is a very knowledgeable guy like the generation librarian like archivist like this guy is in All the affin use of history that's fire. You gotta go to school for that learn to do a decimal Oh, no he did he did he did he'd be an interesting guy to get on I'll tell you that I have a few wall stories for you and then what was the path that led you to because the Jack Purcell podium is launching and you're launching it with the homies of palms. What led you to connect with with Nikolai and the the Danish homies over there? Yeah, I mean let's start by saying shout palm shine Nikolai like fucking love Nikolai love palms um I think it's a lot about Nikolai story I think the fact that like his you know story and palms story a little bit is that intersection of these two

37:17Communities and cultures that he kind of was you know very much a part of growing up you know in terms of tennis in terms of racket sports But also in terms of skating right, you know, it's obviously a An area subculture that is very very dear to our heart as well, and I think that's That intersection between the two places is generally where we like have a sweet spot, you know But between any two kind of salt subcultures or kind of a opposing or maybe not posing forces, but creative forces Um, and I think you know that you know, we're very much rooted in kind of some of that same spirit I think first and foremost though he's a nice guy He's doing don't stop like it helps That's not hurt. Yeah, he grew up with converse. He has stories with converse um And honestly he's a Manchester United fan and so you know that he's fucking good person Yeah, he could put up with a lot of bullshit Yes, he can he can he can put up with over 10 years of hurt and pain. You're resilience. Are you ready to support her? Oh 100% through me too. Rafa opening weekend brother. Uh Yes, 100% I was pelted on my text messages between the hours of you know

38:19Whatever 7 30 in the morning and you know and noon time on Saturday was a runtime What I'm hearing is if you want to do a collaboration with converse be a good person Be a good person won't hurt Definitely don't be an asshole at least be an asshole in the right way. There are positive ways I think to be our souls about what are those? I don't know But my what my wife tells me most of the day You're an asshole so uh, so I'm just reframing that narrative for myself really okay General wife he's been doing something right is it okay? Is it low key more difficult to resurrect like a legendary product from the archives versus working on and exist product because you know And we've already seen it like the puritins and the nerds are obsessing over every detail They're gonna question every design choice that kind of deviates from the original yep So like When when everything's under the microscope is that more difficult than working on an existing product? I mean first of all as they should they should criticize it. That's fine. Um, I think it is I think it is just as hard in a different way. I think creating something from scratch is very It is amazing and I think it is very difficult as well because certainly as a designing after a certain level of vulnerability for want to a better world

39:25In terms of putting yourself out there um and that being said having the fucking huge honor of this thing like this icon like being part maybe a small part of the legacy of this thing and It continuing in other 60 hundred years whatever have you Um, wow, that's fucking massive as well A 60 or 100 years sorry not 1600 years not quite. I mean, I'm not willing to go great in the beard, but I'm not that bad. Yeah Tax per cell Tax americano it's There we go there we go. So what kind of pressure do you feel then? Um? I mean, I think it's good pressure. I mean it fucking motor hopefully motivates me to fucking do better every day and to always push um, I think it's it's Yeah, I mean, I think it's important and I think that was part of the process for you know For any icon, but certainly for the podium like we really did go and talk to those collectors vintage dealers Um, the archivist a pit all that did the maybe unofficial archivists of this world kind of thing and I go great that yes

40:25Of course with current fashion and things like you know, and that sort of thing, but I think it's yeah It's important to it's important to be informed there and to be able to do I don't think you please everybody all the time And also would say that the beauty of our product especially from those areas of like 70s and things like that is It's very nuanced. It's ham it's very ham made. It means there will be you know the the the the imp not No two pairs will be the same. Oh, well, you know, there will always be those very slight imperfections Which I think are the beauty and you know of our product. Yeah, and so I think it's also a big Challenge as well to work out which of those are the things you carry forward or replicate or advance versus which are the ones you're like Oh, no, maybe that was just a mistake That's a fuck up actually. Yeah, do you listen to or do you like read the comments or listen to responses in some capacity or do you have to tune that out because otherwise like Oh my question you're aside your design decisions. Yeah tune out mostly I think it depends. I think you have trusted editors both inside you know and outside the building It doesn't mean given away any company sequences or just like vibe check taste check

41:27You know kind of thing also seeing what they're saying you know all what the things that they are feeling out there and like things that they're responding to um But you probably can't help yourself occasionally But you know, it's also probably one of the places sometimes where you get the best giggle as well just reading the comments section of um, you know Any love for nature websites. Oh, yeah, actually we want to come to sneaker heads Keep the surface and point it. Yes, it does. Yes, it does the people got a point of view. That's that's that's it as they should I mean, I think Something that everybody's a point of view on is the Chuck Taylor, but we I mean, yes, sir Being able to sit here with you we got to ask you and everyone has their own version of the story How did the Chuck Taylor become the quintessential American sneaker? It's as American as Levi's as American as apple pie Yes, yes, it really fucking is. I mean when I think of it like that is and that's kind of why I came here It was like a chance to touch this American icon like this thing that is like a form litter path so many people's lives And I think I've thought about this a lot you know over the years and I think probably in some ways my answer has changed over the years

42:27But I think it starts with the design. I think for me it's like It's just so simple and restrained and paired back and you know, that's part of the I guess echoing the era Right, you know that it comes from it was probably a quote-unquote less is more era You would definitely have less resources at you know at hand to build stuff And I think that's the beauty of it. I think the simplicity of it has created Vestility. I think that's why it's been adopted by by by so many different places subcultures people creatives Um, and I think that's created time in game like I think that's the thing that has kept it in The Whatever you want to call it in the zeitgeist for so long and I think you can't be considered a true icon if you haven't Studed the test of time like I think that's a key metric. Yeah I mean So it's the simplicity and it being kind of a blank canvas. That's why you think subcultures like so many different subcultures of a doctor That hasn't for me yes, and I think that's why I adopted it as well You know, along with you know others of our shoes like that like the jack as well I think you know I think in some ways they speak to some of the same thing even if they do have the distinct personalities

43:29But I think it is like it gives you a certain layer of like This can exist in so many different well start ways styles fits But also at the same time it leaves room for you to impress upon your style or your Whatever imprint on it. It's taking to be imprinted on me. Yeah, like which I think is mark of a great product Honestly, that's what allows it to continue to live. Let's get off product. I'm not sure. Let's get into the man. Oh Okay, that sounds lovely This will be too eager. Yeah, it's like on a first on a first date. I was like okay What was the first pair of kicks that made you fall in love with sneakers? It was probably M. X plus one as we like to call it in England the TN one and I think TN one so a Sean McDowell shoe and old boss of mine from Way back when I think English people fucking love an M. X. I was one of them. I was a big sneaker collector growing up I think the TN one for me had like I think it was just a crazy fucking like shape and expression of it

44:35Just so fucking wild and then the color of it and the materials and shit and also like In England or in the UK unless I'm very much mistaken at least what I remember my experience being was you could only get it in footlock And there weren't footlockers abundantly every time in place and it was like a US import like a special Import so like it wasn't like you were having like tons of like you initially at least UK versions of it So it was like that or like a reseller shop you would go to just interesting because it's I mean obviously to iconic shoe now But it was definitely more important to British culture than American culture But you're saying you're drawn to because it felt like an American import like it felt like something that I wasn't You weren't gonna see every fucking other place and on every kitchen I'm just a cheap shoe either. You know, I had to save up to get that thing It was like I want to say like 120 quid or something like that the time which wasn't it's not small money now But no small money then that's for sure, especially as a as a kid and yeah, I mean it was like that first thing Where I was like oh fuck like this is yeah, I was I was and I was a very big sneaker head for for a long long time I've had lots of pairs how much have you spent on sneakers in your lifetime?

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46:39No purchase necessary to enter but every dollar you spend gets you more entries That's ridges.com and use throwing fits after your purchase They will ask you where you heard about them and please support our show and tell them Our show sent you Rogang Fall is just around the corner and that can only mean one thing Especially if you're talking to us and that's fall shopping which is why we are back with revolve man to sponsor Another podcast listen guys Shopping revolve man is curated. It's not chaotic And you know what if you're not sure how things are gonna look Everything is styled out for you so you can see because you know, it's not about one piece It's about the full look and Let's not forget fast shipping an easy return two day shipping is free and returns was so easy So if you want to order a couple things and try some stuff out You just keep what you like and you return what you don't boom done Whether it's a big night out a wedding a trip or you just need something last minute that actually works

47:40Revolve man always has it go to revolve.com slash throw fits and use code throwing fits for 15% off your order That's right 15% off and free two day shipping and easy returns. It just makes everything easier That's revolve.com slash throwing fits and use code throwing fits for 15% off your entire order Then law for ends soon. So don't sleep on it I mean mom's listening remember yeah, I know I mean accountant. I mean, certainly I don't know like I don't know Certainly over 10k for sure. Oh, that's not bad. It's not I spend more vis-vin for sure But also different probably different time different era money money men something more than you get free converses Yes, I do Yes, and yes indeed Yeah, now I do I think it's also important that I Not just me but other members of the team get to where the product as well ourselves to kind of like understand how it feels and fits and what we can do

48:45Sure, how to improve your work test. Yes, how long you were test for before you're like, you know what this is good It depends. I mean, there's an internal process which will go on for several months for sure Which is important. I mean and and not all shoes are created equal. So therefore not all timelines are either And then for ourselves as well. I think we always try between a few of us in the course at the team to to get something at least on somebody's foot of you know Again, one of the trusted editors that you can kind of get some of that just like true feedback But we work with some amazing people amazing programs and stuff as well which do a lot of great work We know your mother's listening So you know it will be yes How pissed were your parents when you told them you were dropping out of school to work in sneakers? They were reasonably supportive I Was the first reaction I think a little bit maybe not shock maybe I mean like you back on drugs man. I mean what do you mean back on that was never off But no, I think it I think also that kind of era as well. It was like

49:49It wasn't a given that you could make a career or job out of you know like Sneaker design. It wasn't yeah culture that it is now I would say they were apprehensive but supportive And but they were like you need a fucking plan if it falls through and so I did keep a plan in case it falls through What was the plan? What's the plan was to go back to school? I had a certain time window where you could defer going back to universe like a two-year time window So I said all right This is make or break within that two years. I mean the doing this. Was there a moment in two years where you're like okay Like it this I feel like on solid ground no pun intended like yeah, I know I mean yes Yes, I would probably say maybe six months or so in I think six six six eight months I think it took a minute for me to get my feet to be a you know A grown-up for one to a better word was there also a moment in those six eight months? We're like oh fuck I admit a terrible mistake No, but I won't lie. I mean like moving to another country like when you're like you know 2021 It's like it is definitely like a little fucking scary and like you know, and it's a you know, and it's it's Yeah, I mean I grew up very quickly. I think but I also had some very good people around me as well

50:53Which which help me do that I guess is it true that when you're first trying to break into the industry You would send fit picks along with your job applications Yes, I Just to be very clear it was only one one occasion which was what got me into into the industry and into yes Fuck I guarantee I don't remember exactly I guarantee the brand curation would have been in that kind of Neighborhood fragment design maybe the W taps maybe a little bit of babe The I would say the belt line started a lot lower it was a lot more off my waist at the point And I think there was probably so many different colorful patterns on my body That you might need sunglasses to see me. Yeah, plus a hundred percent Probably double T at that point so I was into gruffity so I'd always do the the T under the T to keep the pits clean and you know

51:54And now you know reset on the T's just in case It was a different time Damn, this kid is cool or damn I feel so bad for this kid. We got a higher Yes, I mean I would like to stop doing this It was I will say it was a slightly different era. It was a less digital era. I just got broadband into my house Like it was me taking pictures on a small digital camera that of like my artwork like it wasn't like Here's a lovely digital like a PDF or a website It was like his pictures are like fucking things I've drawn and like here's me like yeah, and in fairness They did ask for the paper. It wasn't okay It was somewhat solicited like it was they did say like can you send a picture of yourself? I think they meant a headshot. I went for full fit. Yeah, you're like what you have Well, it's all this baby. I'm like fuck it. Like absolutely like this is what you're getting um Did you do the like kick to get the sneakers? I died was not that flexible Okay, I was dying. Yeah, is this um Your jerk for your time at Adidas. Yes. Yes. Yes. Is it true you work for the guy who inspired the Sasha

52:59Baron is Cohen character Bruno. Yes, that is correct Michael McCalsky. Yes. Yes The fashion I don't know what Michael Michael's doing now, but the fashion designer Michael McCalsky He was I don't know the pia design headed design whatever across a Addy across originals across y3 lovely gentleman Very interesting dresser. I certainly learned you know, I get I learned you know a little bit what chrome hearts was from my oh She was a big chrome hearts guy big kind of washed denim guy big monkler guy kind of thing actually I mean I had I had I mean he had sick fits to be fair to him But he also went to school with Sasha Baron Cohen They were like roommates whatever have you so yeah, I do understand that that that Bruno is inspired by Michael And I would say there yeah, I mean like it's definitely not by no means is it a one-to-one but can I see moments of it or have I seen Sure, I did work for the guy that inspired Bruno then the guy inspired the dictator or you know like I do I would I would say yes. Yes, although I actually haven't seen the dictates

54:03I'm in an alley G guy to be honest So I'm worried that it might be a little fucking cook, but we will we will see I'm open minded And I'm ready to be surprised, but I my expectations a lot. Bull y'all got shot. Yeah in indeed. Yes, indeed I mean kind of related after you move to the US so you spent all the time in Germany Spend a little time in Germany. Yeah, came over to Can't wait to do yeah after move to the US how long did it take for you to stop calling them trainers Traenas and crepes. Yeah Streck me as a crap guy fucking quickly. Okay. I very much realized that while everybody was speaking English We were speaking slightly two different languages in terms of certain vocabulary that maybe I would use not only around footwear But just in things in general I get a lot of blank stairs Well, yes, I didn't maybe lead in with the sea wasn't my first week. I'm talking Chris. You mean converse right? Yes, I'm America I take your fucking trainer And they're like coming in with these yoked to like people that are training them in the gym like what are you talking about?

55:05French pancakes kind of thing Yes, I mean I definitely didn't take long for me to realize I was being misunderstood a lot I think like literally my first week living in Boston I walked into a cafe and Italy I was wearing like a pair of like Junior chants in like a car heart brown and then this electric blue dover street market like global duffer jacket Different era for me and fairness. Oh, so it definitely turned a couple of heads And I just you know there's a bunch of people looking for coffee. I was like where's the fucking front of the line? But I said, oh hey, is this the front of the queue and I just like a blank stair You and then somebody very nicely saved me on the side. Do you mean do mean whether where the line starts and I was like I've absolutely fucking mean that And it was obviously the opposite and from where I was so yes, you know, yeah, we might have left to right now right to left Yes, exactly what I'm just about getting used to driving on the other side of the road 18 years in just about But we've got all those traffic cones man. Well, that's it. Yeah, fucking you know, it doesn't make it any easier Believe me, especially not in Boston everything's a one-way street going the wrong way, so I Shout out the big dig is there anything anything the US that's still to this day gives you culture shock 18 years later

56:12guns Yes, sure you know, I mean, well, yes, I mean, fuck that shit's crazy Um, I would probably say it's more like weird little I think it's the little shit that Probably sometimes urks me. It's like This is gonna sound very English of me, but it's like it's etiquette stuff a little bit So like if I take a Very recent thing coming to see you guys like for me plate disembarkment etiquette if you can call it like that In the US is like at another level of warfare. Yeah, where I am not cut out for it I'm always gonna be that kind of English person that's like don't worry you can walk and trample over me right before I trample over you kind of thing Please maybe to a fault. Yeah, and maybe it makes a visor looks better because it's Yeah, I'm saying but So it's things like that it's like yeah, like not putting your hand over your mouth when you y'all or shit like There's like a dumb little shit that like probably is ingrained in me since a child like whatever that That's pretty great season stuff, but I'm like you feed up on the seat

57:13Talk about just a little bit basically stuff mostly that my wife is guilty on All right, just uh, you know, you said it folks. I know I'm sending a something I love you. I love it. This is this is I feel like read like a one-who one-half couples therapy. Yeah, I know it's great I love it. She's she's a constant inspiration to me every day and she keeps me very regulated Fox me up at the airport to baggage claim. Yes, when people stand right next to the belt. Oh my god Assuming that oh my bag is coming up. You're gonna get it first You know if you just take two steps back then anyone can walk up and get their bag when it comes and then they're gone And go for a bit that you might politely say can I I'm sorry I'm just gonna lean across you to get my bag right now. Oh, no, you're not having any Hey, they're gonna hit with the lock. They're gonna hit with luggage in that case Here's the thing I'm gonna tell you though. I don't really check stuff in. I don't like checking stuff in when I travel I am a carry-on guy That's very if I can do efficiency is case you know, I don't because you don't want to lose you don't want to lose the fizz Yes, I don't I mean, I don't think people are actively rifling through my bag to look for vis-vim right shout out if you are but Yeah, you're rather wear three jackets onto the plane then check I would rather yeah, I'd rather wear the layers on but

58:17Yeah, no for sure I carry on if I can and what's the one thing you miss about the UK the most? Oh gosh, I have the brekkie. Yeah outside food and friends and family It's probably footy culture and just being directly don't get me wrong the time difference works very nicely for me at the weekends And having that in the mornings and stuff, but I think just being in it and being able to immerse myself like Is it glee back into it? I love that shit. I mean, it's super popular. It's more popular than I know You know amazing amazing amazing amazing and don't get me wrong I'm spoiled I can probably watch more games here in America than my dad can in England Based on you know all of you a ship it whatever rights and stuff like that, but like no, I'd probably say that's the biggest thing It's not the weather. I can tell you that I can tell you that What is a real kicksman like yourself? What do you think about high-end capital F fashion sneakiness capital F? I think some are good and some are not good. I think it just depends like anything. I think What I do like about the good ones is that I think we're all in service of the same thing trying to make better shit and trying to make dope stuff and I think

59:20An innovation a breakthrough yet a new bit of creativity awayvading something differently can come from anywhere And I think what do they say like a rising tide lifts all boats or the fuck like it's a little bit of that Like hey, maybe you actually get to kick down a door that we weren't able to because of your specific relationships or who you are as a brand Um, I think some are very good value for money I think think some aren't but I think that's also a little bit of the nature of the game as well And I think that's part of like you know where you've seen maybe the close close up between like Fashion footwear and sneaker culture and that kind of mix in between You've collaborated with a few where have you worked on the collaborations with like kind of the bigger household Yes, houses. Yes. Yes. Yes, which one? Marcella Yes, yes On the JWs were huge. Yes I mean literally actually big sneaker as well. I mean, physically a fucking massive They were depending on which one, but yes, absolutely. I mean, yes No, I've been fortunate enough to work with a ward of them and and and and and visit all of them and and then

1:00:21Conspire with all of them and create some lovely things as well and how is it how is it different Working with like a house versus like an individual different rules of engagement for sure Different points of view of course. I think also just Maybe you know Yeah, different layers maybe takes a little bit longer, but I think also the end result sometimes with a house can be I think it could be just as good actually, but I think you can Maybe get to different places and explore different things that maybe like you know dependent on other brands or just ourselves We couldn't do on our own or doing the in the same way and I think it's been probably Houses have been what have pushed us pushed me personally the most in terms of like creative process Creative thinking as well technique execution. Oh exit like I think of I think of like Margella and when we were doing the painted shoes And you know, we have a very Corporate sportswear is very different from fashion in terms of the way you know you test things what you're allowed to do

1:01:23Safety, you know, we're very I'm not saying fashion isn't fashion is very responsible. We are you know very very Well, it depends where you are yet But we are you know all we try to be and so when we're held to a maybe a higher standard in terms of that regard and so We spent probably myself we had this crazy amazing Bulgarian like innovation scientist guy and then I grabbed two Members of our design community who are just artists painters in their own right that nice thing about converters a lot of people You know have a second life shall be saying on a seat away, but like their artist build furniture whatever have painters um And so we to huddled up and we had this like messy space We literally spent two weeks just testing different like fucking paint and binder combinations on canvases and fucking Putting them under different conditions and fucking agitated them and just to be like well, we don't want the shit to come off directly But you also don't want it to never great. That's all point because it was part of the storytelling You didn't know what color way or exactly what you were getting and so Uh, yeah, I mean like it was I mean a labor of love quite quite honestly

1:02:26But that's a nice thing the wallop the sleeves moment in order to get to the thing which is like oh like kind of kind of high-fashion kind of You know whatever have you as a whole yeah, but it was very uh, you know honest to goodness Shall we say to to get there and I'll see you're probably a little scary at time because I wasn't sure we would get Would have led paint work No, no, I can officially say no that would not work you guys try to that and Yeah, yeah, I don't want anybody like he's he's stuck in on the shoes for like 24 like no none of that Yes, please don't do that but right now Where's sneaker culture at like give us a city you know on on sneaker culture? Yeah, I mean, I think it's the craziest it's ever been. It's the biggest it's ever been which I think has been Interesting for me to reflect on as being like part of like a consumer and you know Whatever of the culture and then going to work on the other side of it I think there's beauty and not beauty to that I think to a degree it's somewhat saturated and I think Um, that doesn't mean you can't find good product and I think it does push Me my team to make sure what we're doing is always fucking excellent um

1:03:29But I think what I miss a little bit for all the beauty of let's say the digital age giving accessibility to you know You could be whatever 20,000 miles away and fucking know and support this local business here whatever have you amazing But at the same time like nothing's a fucking surprise anymore. There's no mystery. There's no hunt You don't have to work to get the thing or to be Abel to be put in the room to see the thing or know about it like I'm not saying like or everything needs to be fucking gate kept but I think A certain level of it is mystery is gone long done right and responsible Yeah, I think a little bit the mystery's gone and that great. It's an evolution It's not how it was things can't stay the same nor should they but Yeah, a little bit of trying to find a Non-forced way of bringing that back is probably the eternal hunt in a way. Do you think that uh, I think you know sugar culture in its Prime maybe 10 years ago got flooded with a lot of like guys that were seeking Kind of using it as just like a means for financial gain Um through like reselling through bots through uh, you know these conventions

1:04:34Have the money obsessed grind set bros moved on to a different financial instrument Whether that's like Market or crumb hard watches watch it. I mean, I think watches for sure And is that good for a sneaker culture the fact that like the big money or the fast money has moved on I mean, I think it's part of the process. I think it kind of has to move on and go into and spread and go into other things I think it's probably not a bad thing Um, I won't say that I'm so fucking glued to watching it all the time I think I've had take too much or pay too much attention or take it too seriously It's not a positive influence Not a good thing and it's not good for yeah, it doesn't I don't think it's a metric by which Um, one needs to to judge themselves by either, but I think it's I don't know. It's different. It's it's it's It's different. It's different and I think I have to be good with that as well Is bringing back the mystery you're talking about like the one thing if you could snap your fingers and change about Seeker culture would that be itters or maybe another bigger problem that we haven't addressed yet I think there's that I mean, I think like

1:05:35I think there's a lot of product right and I do think less is more a little bit again Sorry to come back to that phrase, but I do think like a little bit of just like Maybe a bit more intentionality as well. I think um, you know Yeah, I think everybody's you know guilty at some point of a money grab or whatever have you and I think you know Maybe that's hard to avoid it is business at the end of the day But I just I think you know part of what we're always really focused on is just putting the attention back to like I don't know real creative process real creators will like really investing in People and things that that matter will move us forward and yeah probably some of those things will make us uncomfortable And probably some of that will will be good, but just a modicum of mystery would be I'm knowing just a pinch. Yeah, it's probably good that Because when we want to talk about the money, it's more like the the consumers of the middle the creation of the middleman like you know Sneaker resellers became celebrities at one point a little bit. Yeah A little bit. Yeah, so fucking That's just crazy and I won't like even before I got into the industry I did a little bit of like that first wave of of of resale like you mother fucker. I know you're the problem

1:06:40What's the most you ever made on a sink like a sale? Uh, it was more done in terms of trades and actual monitoring Okay, that's probably will say there was I don't know about like Single sale, but like I put myself through first year of university like without having to have it deal in sneaks like Yeah, mostly like you can't rent and all of that shit and didn't work Don't you guys get like you know subsidized education? I was the first year where that wasn't being Don't get me wrong. You had to flip Oh, no, I mean I had a fucking The privilege of learning fucking that thing You guys have it crazy here. So it's done lady Don't you fuck. No, I mean, I'm not quite that I mean yes I am but yeah, yeah, yeah, what's your uh, what's your rail pair seekers that you've never acquired just yet? Oh Can it be footwear in general and not just sneakers? I think so I mean well Girl pair of true sneakers is like there's always a couple of pair of our own like 97 like real 970s charts like that I watch on eBay or wherever and sometimes

1:07:46Like if it's the right pair from the right era like it's definitely in the in the thousand Like single thousands, but like those are wearable like you could get them in wear them or be wearable enough I would say probably not every day fucking beaters, but like just special occasions Exactly. I try and just like nicely suggest to our archivist like you should get something in the 10.5 You know like I'm gonna send you some links bro. Don't worry about it Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm always sending him stuff off just like Yo, have you seen these do you think you want to get these like mate like maybe Um, but if it's footwear is a general report I hope not he's like Matt made me do it. Yeah, uh, no, I think actually to be fair we've got a He he is very well taken care of in terms of bringing things into it. I would like it's it's up in a butter the archive Um, but I think in terms of footwear in general I'm a big boot sky as I say when I'm not in sneakers that the percentage of the time Uh, sorry to be boring come back to vis-vim Seven whole 73 folks. I have a couple of pairs. Yeah, there's a specific pair. I have been watching on grailed for

1:08:49A couple of years and I a couple of years Intermittently I'm in this sky's DM Come on bro. You're not gonna sell these. I'm the only person you're gonna sell these too I don't know. I forget the name of the user but sell them to me. What's so special about that particular pair? Um, I think it's the material combination. I think um some of the leather's they use Maybe we're not able to or they do more specialist uh leather's that they're not able to get a hold of so easily So you don't see as frequently things like the bison hide things like that something with real crazy grain that goes through the leather Uh, yeah, just their attention to detail man all the trims re-rezip is that type of shadow I'm a sucker for one of that. So one of these days do you want one of these days soon? I hope yeah Do you own maybe with the economic you know going to you kind of go into the ship? Sure. We just go find yourself. Yeah Do you own any pairs of the vizm sneakers that clearly shall we say? heavily draw inspiration from the jack per cell and chak Taylor? Um, I may or may not have had pairs over the years and I think inspiration is the sincerest form of flattery

1:09:50Um, and I think that's also the thing when you have icons like these that have against the test of time been around for for so long I think it is actually kind of part of the beauty that people will do a nod or an ode to you as long as They're putting their their their spin on it and trying to putting enough and I think that goes for any part of creativity It's like it's dope like you know, I love the art of the remix like putting something in a different context And but I think that's important you have to take it a certain percentage away from the original thing you've approached a rookie about maybe Clevver I can even confirm nor deny whether we have firm spoken to him at any point in the past but You know, I am let's say I'm still working on that as one of my dream collaborations very subject Okay, are the icons the chuck and jack are they kind of like public domain at this point? Do you think about that where it's like they've how long have they been around so I mean they've been around so long I mean obviously chuck beats beats out jack by whatever about 15 17 years But I think I mean I guess to a certain degree they are but again that talks to how you know

1:10:53I'm saying where it's like guys say are but I think that you know and that and that brings you into these interesting territories where you know Like I think like it's it's it's almost just just just shared journey in some It's like because like the platonic ideal the sneaker like just like with anyone close around they think of a converse Yeah, so it is kind of just like it's not yet. It's almost like is it even like imitation it's kind of just like I mean I think it depends. I think yeah, I think it can be at times I think it just I mean look at the visible these are fucking no, I know exactly what you're talking about But it's almost like that's just what is the sneaker is chocolate. It's the sneaker right? I will say it's awesome or comfortable Awesome yeah, and that was one of my main Things rios. I definitely have the 90% of the mic you take it's got the ambient air in there It's got this big fucking beautiful like there shouldn't be a lot I mean it was real beetles. I mean it is I mean yes, yes, yes, the blood of Beatles I definitely have yes probably a sweater or two that is true. Yeah, what's the what's the most expensive purchase you you've ever made from vison?

1:11:58Oh, oh fucking Jesus Your wife is too dad is probably now. I mean she's I mean she would and I'm probably probably probably Boots probably grizzly grizzly Grizzlies. Yeah, probably grizzly boots. I'm a little too. Okay I think they gave me free shipping To mass so I didn't have to carry them on the plane Yeah, probably yeah But that's not it. Let's go. Jarrah. Just what you mean last forever. That was something pretty terrorist. I just to be clear Ah, that's a lifetime boot right The cost per wear you're you're gonna do the mental gymnastics or make a eye that's the way I justify You've done you've done 10kish on trainers and crepes What do you think the biz budget is currently a lot higher a lot of six figs No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I don't think so I hope no I don't know No, I don't think so I don't think so I think 50 50k I would say probably a little north that

1:12:58For sure north of that but I don't like five things Yeah, so one jack one jack here one per j it's an out for it's a look. Yeah, one per One pimo no I may or may not have you know That rope I have a very very flashy robe that I thought was an excellent purchase just at the beginning of the pandemic It was very like being cozy boys in the house And I was like, you know what when we get out the house I'm gonna wear this to like weddings and functions I The edges the fucking house and I rarely wear it in the house either where there will be a time the day after this comes out where to work Okay Just you're gonna be the fuck you guys all from Just gonna be the top of the campus I'd share okay I don't got one podcast and he switched up completely that's the guy who that's the guy who works on the lights and the energy Yeah Can you imagine that? This guy works at ever source look at it in his robe

1:13:59Is the like I mean there's a lot to like what's the show the your house on fire? What's the one vison piece? You're saving uh, it was cherish piece. Yeah, most cherish piece. Oh fuck. Um good great question. It's probably It has to be one of my daily drivers. It's probably my kill go jacket that's their like take on like kind of M65 The Yeah, I think Distress just olive nice cotton twill kind of thing. I would say between the months of whatever late September and fucking Light out of where you know, maybe I am a big layering person Be English if you can't tell already I am not that I'm English, but I get I sweat and I'm a clammy clammy guy I prefer light layers Then necessarily like big thick things although I will just do like a white tea and a thick jacket I could see you also like maybe like take your time getting out of the burning home So it gets a little nice like char on the on the hams 100% yeah, you know, it's smoke dined Whatever whatever have you yeah, absolutely with real tragedy

1:15:02Made with the the smell of a burning 19th century home Excellent fuck. You got the patino by I held a family in almo family photographs Just underneath the sleet that I got the nice patina exactly that one of my cats sit on the jacket constantly Just to wear it in and break it. Yeah, someone's gonna do it 800% yeah, yeah, what's the what's the one shoe you were the most? Right now it's definitely the japa like the first ring japa cell. This is a daily driver This has been a daily driver since the first the first ring since since the start the summer for the japa cell like Paris you guys were there was fucking melting like everything through that shit or you know all I'm any and all the time I think when we switch to when I guess to winter I move away from the low tops a little bit I'm back to high top generally a high top guy these days So back in probably first ring chucks obviously 70s chuck still obviously the podium now it will come out be in there as well Because it's just like a pretty simple but hardy canvas exactly that yeah exactly that I think it's it's very Whatever you want to call it trans seasonal. I think the materials will break in really really fucking nicely

1:16:06And I think yeah, I mean it's it's gonna be you're gonna see some really nice version is there a mid top or high top jack in the archives? Yeah, yeah, there has been there has been I think most recently the mid top has been more kind of utilized in our skate zone Oh, okay, and that kind of chucker cuts okay, I got you there have been kind of high tops as not Traditionally in terms of like that were war in the performance era of it right when the lifestyle era Okay, there've been a high top like Hiker versions and just like regular. So I didn't just come up with that right now You did not just make it up. We have done it We haven't done it recently. Okay, we'll say that And like the core expression of jack is always like the low top the Oxford the ox is we know to call it But the ox the footwear terminology was just shot for Oxford Which is just like you know a traditional low top sure obviously as you guys know I mean we talked about Cigar culture before like being so in the trenches. What's happening in seekers right now that really gets you excited I think it's I mean it's when I reflect and kind of see I think from the I guess like knowing what it takes to build the product type view like when I see like a product drop not necessarily from us

1:17:10I mean there are things from us obviously from the Nike family, but like across the board, you know I think when like when you can see and tell like oh shit like that That shoot like took a fucking minute to build or I can see the process and like what they would have had to do That gives me that gives me you know nice hope It's like okay called like crossmanship is in dead like people do care still They do want to put in the time to like tell a authentic story and Build a thing that people actually might like and not throw away and cover it for you know a good amount of time. Yeah But sometimes it's bleak out there You know it does depend on the day. Oh special in Boston. I Can I ask you guys I take it you're probably not the biggest Boston fans, but I'm from New York Yes, Red Sox fan weirdly even though It's a long story, but no, but I don't also want to necessarily go to Boston got it I understand that I have ship it up the boss ship it up to play have you got heard you guys talk about Philly and your dislike for Philly as well What do you dislike the most Philly or Boston? Oh?

1:18:11Boston okay, I'm gonna go I'm gonna go Philly okay Philly people I don't want to say too much And shout out all the Philly listeners and the Boston listeners. We know we have them, you know, but I'm a Yankee's fan So like I was uh if the height of like the Yankee Red Sox rivalry just show and I want to score a lot of kids in Boston and Fucking Trash Swamp Yankees we call them oh really is that from like when they're from like the sticks of Massachusetts when you're being a classic And Philly's cool. Philly's got good food. I've never been to Philly just to be clear. We're not I don't know you're missing much It's all my I like to have a cheese a proper cheese steak sure I hate the eagles because I'm a big new giant We also were we also were During like the the heyday of the Patriots and the Celtics. Yes, I'm annoying. Yeah. Yes It's a big it's a big spools down. Yeah, yeah, if they take it very seriously. Have you adopted the Boston teams? I would say To a degree. I think you have to them an MLS team. Uh, yes, it does the new England Refs. Oh, yeah, the refs. Yeah, go go

1:19:17Res um, I have not seen the rest play the revolution the revolution Yeah, I have actually played on a Gillette stadium. I've played like five aside like oh wow Stadium and the practice field that was called Converse sponsored us to do that. It's fucking nice. It was super good No, I mean, no, I mean like I'm competent at a Saturday league level, but right, you know, I'm not gonna be don't worry Everybody's career was safe. I'm not for the revs any chance. I do definitely not absolutely not But yeah, I mean, I think you have to adopt some sort of like American sports and Boston sports language. You know, right survive in In Boston, honestly, it was it's your routine to I think to like it was my routine to meeting people sure Yeah, and I knew I understood basketball. I didn't really understand American football or baseball. You get American football now Mostly I won't say I know all the fucking rules. I think the outfit is really nice. The outfits are lovely And some of the logos very nice But um, I think it's cool. They have like you know, whatever like mics now that's it's kind of cool

1:20:17I don't know. I mean razor is alternate in the jelly, but it's still very high-tech Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't play it myself before like you know that that type of thing But um, but no, I have I think probably I embrace the Bruins a bit more of all the so I think hockey is kind of the most honest sport in a way of Orie the bushido of sports. Okay warrior code sure. Yes, absolutely So because it's the most blue collar of all the sports it's totally is and I think they earn their money them Like I think it surprised me. I don't know if it's still the same, but like that. I think baseball players are On average paid the most How did he do right? How did he did rivalry go down in Boston? Um, I will say in my household it went down very well There were multiple times I woke up on the sofa and my wife was deeply engaged in heated rivalry and At the beginning I did not know what heated rivalry was so it definitely thought she was watching some porno And then I was like oh Yeah, and um, I believe it has been embraced in in Boston. Yes, I believe so Sharks. Yeah, yeah, maybe maybe not as much as the Scottish football fans, right?

1:21:22Yeah, Erling Holland who seems to be the Everybody's favorite right now, but yes Um, how much money do you make? Uh, probably not as much as you guys Oh, come on. If anybody from converse is listening feel free to continue to show me with more cash, but not I make more than enough to Uh, to get by this and to buy the certain amounts of his vims. So 18 years, yeah, 18 years, yes, they just what have you there for 18 years besides the mind? That's an amazing salary that you Get after They go one million dollars. Um, no, it's the people. It's the culture. I think It's really fucking nice people and it's people that Like get it. They're also like creative that are fun that are just like Yeah, cool and I think actually like some of the things that they are actively working on in life they actually participate on as part of their own culture like it's it's very honest kind of thing You guys live it. Yeah, dude. There's a lot. Yeah, a lot of people that live it 100% and I think it's Often they're not that's been the the through line for me, which is like you have people make the place. Who's your favorite co-worker?

1:22:26Oh, shit Fucking trouble right now Um, it's uh, I got a play. What are you guys say? Plead the fifth American say we only want answers Yeah, you only um, have a kiss who's your least favorite co-worker? Oh, that's even worse, I think How much time we got yeah, it depends on which member of my team hasn't done the thing they need to do. No, I'm joking Uh, do you manage people? I do manage people. Yes. How are you as a manager? Are you like a cool guy? I'm a cool manager Sure, man, harsh but sure dude, hopefully I'm somewhere in between I mean, I'm definitely like on shit. I'm a double cap racon like I don't like I don't let things Like we're gonna get some shit done sure um and definitely some you know hard work, but like for example I hope so, but probably you know, I could yeah, I hope so I think Obviously in terms of the amazing designs Definitely see my email gain But um, but I hope so I think I'd like to think they'd say I'm in a nice or decent manager I mean, I think it's the right level of just like you know

1:23:28It's sometime you're gonna be one of one of everybody and then sometime there's time to be not to be and it's important to another time and place As your career has advanced and has gotten more important work and not been paid adequately enough Has your job become more of an email job unless of like a creative design job and um, there's a balance. There's certainly more of it There's certainly more of it you it's part and parcel of it You know, I think the emails meetings talk to people I mean Design is a communication tool right like you do communicate in different ways. It's also important for me not to like Hog all the good shit like I've got amazing team. Um, they are you know, Tyler's here. Everyone leave the room Whoa, yeah, go. It's just me. I'm just doing the tech packs. You spread the warrior out Yeah, actually you do the work on credit. Yeah, I'm assigned my name on that I'll take that to dinner. Yeah exactly. I'll put it in the portfolio. Yeah, no I mean, it's important that they get to have the experiences and cut their teeth and and also that's how you learn and and whatnot as well So, um, yeah, I mean, it's a balance, but yeah, there's definitely more emails. I'm good with it I'm good with emails though, you know, I spell things properly. No, I'm saying what's your exclamation point per email average?

1:24:30Oh exclamation point. It quite high. Yeah, I'm quite a positive person. People love that I think you have to make sure you don't come across fake because you obviously you can't tell tone in an email or text Whatever right, but I'm also a Excellent misspeller of things even though I that's charming like the spelling and grammar. I'm because I'm quite a quick Oh, I'm like sometimes I think easy. How do you spell color in emails? Uh, with a you you know, wow Yeah, I mean don't get me wrong if I get spell corrected. I'm not actively going back into that gum No, how can to everything stop racing my culture Yeah, I mean, it's the laboratory just give it after 100 Anyone fancy this yet tonight Yeah, I'll wrap it up. I love to have a aluminum Yes, aluminum for yes, yeah, what the fuck is that? Yeah, it's even extra-so-able. It sounds better, huh? It kind of does That's like the one aluminum I know it's not damn what do you say like that? What's your favorite American slang? Oh

1:25:30I mean, I think well, bro people people people that know me know that like my like little whatever ad libel whatever is shout out I don't I don't it's like it got ingrained in my head From a former colleague many years ago shout out people out yeah, just like shout out as a terminal Yeah, yeah, in diamond it can be used as hello. It can be used as a validator as a punctuation kind of a little bit the Universal use of it. So I think I don't know if that's I guess is American, but like I guess that's I don't know how to you the cool boss I don't know if you guess you got cancer, but Tim Woods would always be shout out the fuckers the e-sides Shout out Dawson. So probably different context. I think Tim Westwood Tim Westwood. Yes, I definitely my route into American rap music, okay, just just to be clear because you would right before he was canceled Yeah, I know before he was canceled 100% just to be clear just to be clear stuff. He's a bad boy We had Nicole McLaughlin on the podcast wildgo and she was shout out to Cole

1:26:32See in voluntary that literally was it's just like my right and she was Cuz she's been a few years at Reebok right? Yes And she was she told us that like because Boston is kind of like that there's a lot of senior companies there. Yes Yes, yes, I was a boom a new balance new balance I'll call it a boom a boom a boom a boom a and she was talking to say like socially kind of like it's a very small Group of people, but they all kind of like you guys all just hang out together And and we were specifically asked like because we were at time I dating she's like yeah, we all kind of just like cross-polloting Yeah, cuz it's smolting Cool otherwise you had to like you know delve into the world of finance and insurance. Yes. There's a lot of finance and medical Bro, yeah, medical bro and like you med bro like Patagonia vest type wearing fleece vest If you see someone walking on the street you know that they're like a sneaker fell sneaker. You look especially I don't know if there's a a certain undercover. I mean, I think there's an awareness, but I don't think there's an acknowledgment

1:27:33I'll see most people are right. I don't know you don't know it. Yeah, well, they that's it Yeah, I'm just not part of it. They think you're a mebbro. I think I'm too unk now is what the kids say Is there any rivalry between all the sneaker brands being the same city or is it this camaraderie thing because of like James saying the greater population of slagless? I mean, I think at times probably in the past there probably has been rivalry But I don't I don't think I've ever experienced any of it. I think it's very nice. I have friends in all the companies I mean, it is quite I mean this in a nice way. It's a bit incestuous right in terms of like that industry like there's only so many so many brands and and you know People tend to do more than one job most of the time in their lives So I think you do get a lot of cross pollination But I think that's also the nice thing and also kind of probably where I've met some of my best friends Yes, world is through that. So you guys are not like a softball league No, but like we used to when I was doing the five-side football thing we used to sometimes It wasn't with the sneaker world, but there were other people from the brands that popped up in other Teams that we played for sure. Cool 100% for sure, which was fun

1:28:36Back to money. What's a dumb purchase that he's made recently? um I want to tell you that there's like some crazy, you know, fucking thing that I bought where German like clothing-wise, generally not because Germany my biggest fuck-up is just the thing doesn't fit me right It's not that I regret the purchase. I tell you the rabbit hole I am bad for is like social media like advertised things like I'm a great like reactant purchase person like tick tock shop or like Not I'm really just an IG person. I'm not a tick tock kind of thing But like targeted ad shit like depending on what it is And obviously, you know, whatever, you know, what the phone's been listening to you say. Sure type of thing It's only so you what you want It is until you get it and then maybe it isn't I think that I think the latest thing was just like what the fuck did I get that was? I bought an electric foot file Been into very much. Yeah, I just been very much You know like well, I mean not like Tarantino right right you know your money maker

1:29:36But they are my money maker right for health is important like yo like I got to take care of those things And I bought it with this great intention like yeah, I'm gonna like you know Have nice with fee. Well, you're not the my fee of temple. I feel fine, but like Uh, let's go to next level. I'll be honest. I have not yet. I mean this will be the motivation for me to use Maybe it works great out. Maybe it like is gonna change your life. It might do I'm guessing probably not just manually file your Cost like four dollars, I'm sure I mean it was like probably at 40 dollars, but I mean it wasn't didn't break the bank But like also I'm not bothered to return it right no you're not never never to me. It's not like a massive purchase I can't think of like a big thing. I fucked up. Well, you definitely are a sucker for oh That's definitely a life hack that I'm gonna use 100% and I think I do probably 75% of my shopping effect everything through the phone and apps Wow your men is dream dude I prefer an in like real life interact like going into a shop and trying a thing Oh, no, whatever. It's hard to get visited in Boston. So I couldn't even tell you what store sells electric feet files

1:30:43So I feel like in this case I probably can't either shop or image. Yeah There's stores that have this in Boston Concepts maybe I think but I'll be honest. I'm not a little bit outside of Boston I'm not like hitting the streets of downtown Boston I hit her parties No, not from while that is for sure But also that's maybe the privilege of being able to travel a little bit like being here Like you know, you can dip in whatever have you and you know, feel you'll cut that way a little bit. Is there anything you refuse to spend a lot of money on? Oh I think there's a certain limit. I'll hit for a white t-shirt for sure going back to that Which are a limit. I think like I mean probably comfort colors is at that. Oh really? Aliment which what they're like I don't know now like 11 bucks a tea 12 bucks a tea 50 bad I don't really want that like a hundred butt white like I'm not buying this Let's put it like that. It's too disposable a thing and I don't think that's the I think it's cool when people do do versions of It and I'm not so kind of nice t-shirts

1:31:43But I think when it's a white t-specifically given how much battle damage it's gonna take and how much how messy are you are here? Swurper's beginning. I don't I'm clumsy as fuck when it comes to like spilling I've decent reaction time Like sometimes I catch myself but I'm surprised I'm not the coffee off already. Yeah, I like destroyed your you know you'll go set up but like Yeah, I there's more than a few times when I'm like look down half like a lunchtime at work And I'm like well more of that coffee went down me than me at least I only spent 11 bucks, you know Oh, that weather they're very replaceable. All those millions of dollars the cobbler that's in you Cheaper you coffee you coffee my of yeah Yeah, exactly. I just lean full into it and and uh were used by a tide stick Um, that is something I have been better with recently. I will I will say that but you might also find me like hanging over the like Dyson dryer in the men's box. Oh this is like the on Instagram targeted to you tomorrow now And now yes, that's all I'm gonna get is like tide pet exactly. What's the what's the one piece of clothing footwear side that you wear the most

1:32:44Clothing footwear side footwear aside. Oh footwear aside. Sorry And then also what are the shoes that you wear the most even though we know that you're like we're testing any given Yeah What do you find yourself gravitating towards again and again? I mean, I think I have uniforms for different moments Right, I think like in the house around the house around my local town versus being out in the world like it's it's sometimes different things I'm probably I guess probably what I'm most quote-unquote known for is just like a nice washed faded pair of denim jeans With the white tea right very much that classic Americana. Yeah, actually designer uniform honestly, you know It is it is I mean, it's not original but I mean It sounds like it is the American yeah, what we're going. I mean, it is the American dream though a little and to be honest I would have been in jeans right now It's just probably a little bit hot for for me. They haven't quite gone to like jeans temperate right? Um, I'm also in the in the market for a new pair of jeans when you old pair of jeans as well. So I feel so got a three 16 just a few bucks away. Yeah, shout out. Yes, no, there there your homies right there. Shout out to the best shout out agent So no, I think

1:33:45Regains fucking probably jeans I would say yeah, yeah And Last question here. Hmm that amazing time For an hour and a half here. Yeah, that's bad. That's not sleep. Don't sleep Do you have any constructive criticism you would like to give us now that we spent all this time together? Oh, fuck me I knew this was coming and I really wasn't sure what to say. I mean, I know you ask Normally you guys are really fucking nice. I think it's really It'll be less nice. It's it's be more shitty Um, no, I'm I mean, I don't I don't know like no like you were very nice you offered us drinks and things and You know, no, I don't know. I mean This is good to do do a good fucking job. Maybe do a do a do a do a pod with her Rocky for oh, she that would like How's the English do we know? Uh when I've spoken to him decent. Yeah, I think he's He's like the secret only speakers. Yeah, Ray Kauwakubo, you know if he doesn't want to deal with you It's like all the translator. Sorry. I can't but I mean, I've like show Hey Otani I've not had much experience of show Hey Otani, but I'll tell you what he's like he's a new balanced guy

1:34:49Good. Well, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, shout out to that so All right Matt. Thank you for coming on to the only podcast matters all the way down from bean town What would you like to plug? Yeah, where could you get to follow you? Fuck I mean Uh, it is my Instagram is just like m sleep my my initials with underscores in between because that's annoying because there's apparently another m sleep Are you gonna go on? You go public for your moment this on here? Uh probably not I like that's the cap accord in me like the regulation to it. I am a private account. I mean, keep Get keeping my own very boring Pay your cash and sell for you and sell for you but so if you want to collaborate with someone because like for us I mean for most of the world now a lot of business goes down in the DMs you have to like Do you how do you get DM Tyler like yo bro one of my Not I do not DM Tyler um that is how I mean we we talk through more official capacities Okay, we do have each other's numbers things like that but it's so you could text him and tell him that he should come on throw

1:35:52Fits what you're saying? I Could it could be a possibility? Okay, I'll do that. I don't know But if it's you never know somebody you want to have it. I like that is he the most Probably yeah, I like that you had to think yeah, yeah, that's maybe one or two close, but yeah, no, I think so can't yeah I do not have Kanye good to not have Kanye good and I do not thank you. What do you think of the new easy sneakers? Just real quick. Do you see those? I very quickly caught them Interesting, okay, let's see they look like nurse they look like nurse shoes They look a little bit also like kind of like military training shoes Yeah, in a way which I know has kind of always been a little bit the vibe that's been in there So I don't know I didn't really save judgment till I see something in in real life a little bit You know just internet can be deceiving sure it can be I think so Oh, what do you know? I love it as well Definitely gonna shout also like buddy at palms Nikolai about the podium. We're about to release. I think September 14th

1:36:55So look out for that guys palms at converse.com at all good stockists And yeah, I'd say they're my shout-outs all right request to follow this man on Instagram I'm sorry Matt. Thank you again for coming back to the party podcast matters chef take us out