The Next Big Things in Skin With Sydney’s ‘If You Know, You Know’ Facialist, Carina Gross

You're listening too.

I'm on my media podcast.

Makeup is my therapy.

I'm obsessed and I don't even feel guilty about it.

Hello and welcome to UBD, the podcast for your face.

My name's Amy Clark and no, I'm not Kelly McCarran.

Usually she's here with you on a Tuesday,

but I have stepped in.

I've taken over the studio because

I wanted to bring you an interview

with one of the most amazing skin gurus that I know.

My guest today is Karina Gross from Bellamyers.

OG UBs might have heard of Bellamyers or Karina.

She is my longtime facialist.

Lee Campbell has also spoken about her before.

She is known for her fairy dust treatment,

but she's also been working with skin for 30 years.

I could have spoken to her all day,

but we had to keep it tight because we're all busy.

So in this episode, we discussed what other products

that she's actually using,

what steps does a skin expert have in their routine.

She also told us about the technologies and the treatments

that no one else is talking about that you need to know about,

as well as one of the actual things that you can do

to make a difference in your skin that don't cost a lot of money.

We covered so much.

So I hope you enjoy this chat with Karina.

You're such a beautiful skin.

But how?

Wow.

Karina, welcome to UBUDI.

I'm so excited to have you here.

How are you feeling?

Very nervous.

Yeah.

But I'm also very excited to be here.

Oh, I'm so happy to have you and diehard UBs

so people that have been around the UBUDI world

may already know who you are,

because you are kind of my long time.

I think nobody probably knows my skin better than you do.

Absolutely.

And also, you know, Lee, of course,

talked a lot about a lot of products

that both of her and I picked up products from you.

So I'm just so happy to have you talking all things skin

in the studio.

But for anyone who doesn't know you,

can you tell me a little bit about what you do?

Like what's your approach to skin?

Because you're kind of like,

I like to think your Sydney is best kept.

Skin secret.

Thank you so much, Amy.

Pretty much I've been in the skin industry

for almost 30 years now.

I was trained in Germany

and I've been in Sydney for the last 15 years.

And my approach has always been,

I'm not sure what if I can say this,

I have the no-bootry philosophy.

Oh, we are so noble shit here.

Fantastic.

So tell us like it is.

I will.

I promise.

So literally having the no-bootry philosophy

means we work with a medical grade ultrasound scan.

So that means we don't guess we measure.

And our scan is very unique

compared to lots of other scans that are out there

and used in other skin clinics,

because we can literally see

the whole condition of your skin.

We can see the condition of your barrier,

collagen density, sun damage.

But most importantly,

we are able to see if the skin care

that you've been using for the last 90 days

is actually working or not.

For Ubies, I actually had a treatment

with Karina, her hands.

She brought those hands out.

I wasn't having very often so I felt very honored.

But yeah, it's amazing the stuff

that you can see with those scanners.

Absolutely.

Like the detail, and as you say,

it's like, well, we can tell

if a product working or not.

Absolutely.

And I think that's what most people want to see.

If you spend money on a product,

you want to see, does it actually do what it promises?

Does it actually produce the collagen?

Does it actually improve the hydration

in the deeper layers of the skin?

And so that's why I love working with the scan

because it allows us to cut the bullshit.

Yeah.

When you kind of first, I think,

started to really gain notoriety,

especially with beauty editors and, you know, people

in the industry,

you kind of like known for the fairy dust treatment.

Yes.

Like, what is the fairy dust?

I mean, is it your hands?

Is it just your magic little sprinkle?

No.

It's actually not.

It's the reason why I call it the fairy dust.

Is I consider Holoronic acid that everyone knows.

I consider Holoronic acid to be the fairy dust

for our skin.

So imagine, I always like to use very simple analogy

if I explain that.

So imagine that ocean of fortune, our skin,

that we all have when we grow up,

and you can see that babies with that plum-duey skin,

already in our mid-twenties

that the ocean of water starts shrinking

and at the age of 40,

we only have 50% left.

So that's why I always say after 40, everything sucks.

And goes to shit.

Yes.

Yes.

Exactly.

Literally.

And so that means we all know we lose collagen.

But I think one of the most underrated things

is Holoronic acid.

And that once we lose the hydration in the skin,

there is not much we can actually do

to increase that hydration.

But the fairy dust treatment

that uses light therapy,

so it's not a hot laser, it's a low-level laser,

kind of activates the skin to absorb

a very specific form of Holoronic acid.

And that Holoronic acid is small enough

to penetrate deep into the skin

with the help of the laser.

And links with that ocean of water,

proper term, of course, intercellular substance.

They want to go to technique.

I'm loving this ocean analogy.

It's really clear.

I can picture.

And when I came in to see you yesterday,

it was like a little dribble.

It's like the tide's gone out.

That's it.

That's pretty much it.

And today the tide's, it's on its way back in.

Exactly.

Exactly.

And that's how you get the dewiness actually back

because a lot of clients don't understand

when the skin looks dull and they look tired.

They don't actually know it's linked to dehydration.

And what we do with the treatment,

and that's the reason why it's my signature treatment,

is we use a specific form of Holoronic acid

to penetrate that deep into the skin

that links to our ocean of water

and plums back that ocean of water

to its original state.

And think about there is no product in the world

that can do what the treatment does.

And this is why I always say,

good products are like sheets.

Yeah.

When you see the bad analogy, right?

I like sheets.

You love lying in good sheets and you love it

and you can definitely change a lot of things.

And you can feel the difference.

Yeah.

You can feel the difference exactly.

But if you want real change,

deep change, structural change,

it's the mattress.

And the mattress are professional treatments.

Yeah.

So there is something that professional treatments do

that no product in the world can do.

And so it's very important to understand the difference.

What's the purpose of great skin care

and what's the purpose of treatments?

Yeah, you've got a dodgy mattress,

but great sheets.

Yes.

And then vice versa,

you've got an amazing mattress.

Yes.

And scratchy sheets.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

It's such that you've got the best analogies.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I always try to explain as simple as possible

because when clients say, what's more important?

Do I need to get on a good routine?

Do I need treatments?

You actually need both

if you want to have deep change.

What's the most common thing that you see

with people coming in?

And actually, has that changed much?

You know, the people that were coming in 10 years ago,

not them specifically,

but is there like a different condition

that you're seeing more frequently now?

Or is it the same?

Very good question.

So I would say the concerns have not changed.

It's still number one dehydration.

Number two, definitely sensitivity and reactive skin.

And number three, aging, of course.

You know, lack of elasticity,

creepy skin, et cetera, et cetera, some damage.

But what we've noticed is we have seen far more reactive skins

and more inflamed skins as in dermatitis.

Heat, redness, and inflammation in skin.

These are the main things that we've noticed.

So it's not that the concerns have changed.

It's just skins have become so much more reactive.

And I believe it has something to do with too many products,

too harsh products.

And one of the main things constantly changing products.

Because this is one of the things clients are not aware of.

We have so many clients that say,

oh, I changed products every one or two weeks.

Whenever I feel like it.

And the thing is like, skin and your barrier has to adjust

every single time to the new product.

And that stresses skin and makes it very fragile.

And so one of the things that we always say is

you don't need more products.

You need consistency.

And one of the things that I'm not sure if everyone knows, too,

is like, how long does it actually take from your products?

Because it's definitely not one to two weeks.

Absolutely. And I'm glad you bring that up.

Because you notice within the first one or two weeks,

skin feels more smooth, it's more hydrated.

It looks better. It looks fresher.

But to really see a change in the depths,

and again, because we can trace it and track it, of course,

with our skin, it takes about four to eight weeks.

So we see improvements in strengthening thicker barrier

after about four to six weeks.

And collagen starts at about four weeks as well.

But the biggest change we see after 90 days.

That's when we can see all the new baby collagen being formed

in the deeper layers that actually eventually

repairs the existing sun damage.

So one of the most important things I always say,

you have to give it at least four weeks

to start seeing the deeper change in the skin.

Yeah. And then up to three months.

Up to three months.

Yeah. Absolutely.

So we usually collagen, we always scan after 90 days.

So all the treatments we do where we stimulate

the skin to produce new collagen,

we always scan after 90 days, minimum, yes.

Yeah.

Quick question. Are you tired of the news?

Do you want a podcast that isn't self-improvement?

Come get unleashed. It's funny.

I also think that underwear is sort of almost like a new marriage.

Like it starts off, it gives you the best of what it offers

at the beginning.

It's unhinged.

I have a bit of a thing for my friend's husband, Salami.

Hello.

It's not here to teach you anything.

I need to make sure he looks at me.

One side I'm going to make a sign.

This is what I married because I didn't meet you in time.

Yeah, right.

The other side was pointed to my son, who's 12.

Look what we could have had Lewis.

I love it.

It's a good time for Gen X.

So search Unleashed wherever you get your podcasts.

New episodes every Tuesday.

I was really curious to see your approach evolved

because you're obviously staying really up to date

with everything in the industry, all of the latest technologies.

You were saying that you're also moved into an area of this, you know,

40-plus, peri, kind of specialising in that area.

Like how is that different to like your fairy dust versus what you're doing

with women in that category?

Absolutely.

Most importantly, when we scan clients, we always check, of course,

bury our collagen, hydration, et cetera, et cetera.

So we always start in a similar way because even women

who go through that stage of life, they still feel that dullness,

that dehydration, the sensitivity.

But once hormones come into play.

Those fun things.

Those fun things, yeah.

Remember, as I said, after 40, everything sucks,

meaning once the Eastern declines, right?

And I think a lot of clients don't know what that actually means,

you know, because we start getting old when we lose estrogen.

So that means our skin becomes thinner, we have less collagen,

we have less hydration in the skin, we become way more sensitive

when we lose estrogen.

So that means, of course, the first approach is the same.

It's always about strengthening the skin first, deeply hydrating

and getting it in the best possible condition.

But then, of course, understanding skin inflammation increases,

et cetera, et cetera.

So that means treatments we do change the support changes,

because someone like you, whose early 30s, right,

still looks like an absolute peach, doesn't need that structural change yet,

that someone actually notices 40 plus.

That means you probably have not noticed any kind of sagging in your skin.

There's not a single line in your face, et cetera, et cetera.

But once you're 40 plus, and that estrogen declines,

and you notice, oh, my neck is not as tight anymore.

And I start seeing the Nasolabial fold is becoming more visible.

And just lots of things that you didn't notice in your 20s or in your 30s.

And that's when the structural change actually comes in.

And that's why we introduced recently a very, very new treatment

that I'm very, very, very excited about, actually telling you about.

Great, we've got the scoop.

Absolutely.

And so, of course, fairy dust will always be signature treatment.

We'll always be number one.

It's most asked, most loved by anyone.

But once we actually repaired a barrier, once we strengthen the skin,

we deeply hydrate the skin, and we want that structure change.

So we want to start working on firming the skin.

Then Indiba actually comes into play.

It's a new treatment that we actually got.

I call it the lifted fairy, which combines Indiba,

which is a very gentle but powerful radio frequency.

And imagine in a very simple way.

Again, I always like to compare and make it simple.

Everyone still believes that you need trauma and injury to change the skin.

So people still think the more it hurts, the more downtime I have,

the better the results.

And one of the main things that I really want to educate women

about is that you don't need trauma to actually change the skin.

And that's where Indiba comes in, because working with the right radio frequency

and warming up that tissue and giving skin energy to actually repair itself

is the biggest difference.

So think about, very simply, you can use needles and radio frequency.

It's probably the most popular one.

You cause a controlled injury to the skin that activates wound healing response.

You create new collagen and new cells, right?

Very simple, everyone understands this.

And the difference to Indiba is that we slowly repair the skin by itself.

So imagine it like a battery that is drained when we get older,

sun exposure, inflammation, sugar, whatever it is, right?

Really affects how our collagen elastophibers are.

They stiffen and eventually they fold instead of staying elastic.

And so what we do with Indiba is we do the opposite.

So by changing the environment of the elastin and the collagen fibers,

they become flexible again.

So by working with the right heat, with the right radio frequency,

we do exactly this, we improve the condition,

so that the elastic and collagen fibers become flexible again.

And therefore, lines and wrinkles become less visible

and we start firming the skin.

But we do it without trauma.

And it's very individual to go somewhere where

you might actually not know what is exactly going to happen

with your skin that day because you're coming in

and you're actually assessing and tailoring the treatment

to what my skin looks like on any given day.

It's a bit more bespoke rather than there.

Okay, I'm going in for needling or I'm going in for laser.

Absolutely. And we see that a lot.

Clients that are coming or booked themselves in for needling.

And we always tell them before, look, we do a scan, we do a consult,

we check the condition of your skin and then we decide what's best.

And exactly as you say, most clients come and I want to do needling.

And nowadays there is actually a new thing called bio-needling,

which I believe is the future of skin-needling.

I'll explain more in a sec.

But before we get there, it's literally clients want to come

and it's again, number one treatment is skin-needling.

Everyone talks about everyone knows that everyone knows how it works

and their benefits.

But what most people don't know is when your skin is not in a healthy condition,

when your skin quality is not at its best.

That means when the barrier, when the hydration levels are not great,

skin is actually not ready to go into more trauma, into more stress.

But a lot of clients don't know that until they actually see the results of the scan.

And this is why we love working with the scan.

We do not do any needling or bio-needling until we see the condition of the skin.

I would say, from 10 new clients that come and 10 want to do needling,

maybe two have the right skin condition.

Already.

Exactly, already.

Their skin is in the best condition because the results of needling or bio-needling

is way better when the skin is in a healthy condition,

when your hydrate or the barrier is good.

Because one of the most common things that people are not aware of,

there is a difference in quality of collagen that you actually achieve.

So that means if you try to get new collagen in a very dry, dehydrated

and stressed inflamed skin, that quality of collagen is very different

than the collagen that you're producing in a healthy, hydrated

and not inflamed skin.

Yeah, that's so interesting.

I want to hear from you as someone who is really invested in the technology

and investing because it's not cheap to bring these new technologies

from Europe or from Korea or wherever you're bringing these machines from.

It's definitely an investment.

So you mentioned the bio-needling.

Yes.

Tell me, is this along with your radio frequency?

But yeah, talk to me about what's getting you really excited at the moment.

Okay, so let's start with bio-needling.

There's still so many people who have not heard about the alternative to skin-needling.

I would say it's still everyone when it comes to refining pores,

working on pigmentation, getting the collagen going, skin-needling number one.

We introduced bio-needling about a year ago and we again tested it

for quite some time before we decided to work with it

and actually replace skin-needling altogether.

Do you test it on yourself?

Of course.

Yeah.

Of our therapists, they try things.

They have treatments themselves before we actually not only know about it,

but when you work with something, it's not you do it once and you know about it.

You try it on different skins.

You try it on different ages, on different conditions.

So that you learn exactly how bio-needling works.

So imagine it like bio-needling works with little spicules.

There are tiny, microscopic, invisible needles that come from marine minerals.

So when you see skin-needling works with little metallic needles, right?

And it causes controlled injury to the skin.

So you cause injury and instantly you force the skin to repair itself.

What we do with bio-needling is, first of all,

we decide which strength we use and also how deep those spicules are.

But what we do is we massage those spicules into the skin.

Then they are active for about 72 hours

and they stimulate the skin to repair itself.

So it's kind of like helping the skin to do what it would best do naturally,

like behaving like a more youthful skin.

Absolutely.

So you decide what you want to do.

Do you want to treat pigment?

Do you want to treat texture?

You decide depending on the length of the spicules and how many you use.

You can really be very versatile when it comes to the strength of the treatment.

So for example, your skin, I would like to eventually, after two, three months,

once we work on the hydration and the barrier.

Yes, one strong enough.

One sits strong enough.

We want to make that very clear.

I would love to introduce the most gentle form of spicules

because I would like to work on your texture and on your pores

and so that when you touch it, it will be baby soft.

Yeah, wow.

So there's so many options.

Yes.

How do you come across this stuff?

Well, first of all, I always do so much research

and I see a hundred new treatments popping up.

And to be honest, 99.9% is, it already exists.

They just give it a different name.

Yeah, that's it.

Different spin.

That's exactly right.

So there is not much that actually excites me,

especially when you work in this industry for 30 years.

It's just like, yeah, it's the same thing.

It's the same thing.

Yeah, like fashion.

You know how that kind of comes around?

Exactly.

Yeah, that's exactly the same with skin.

They just give it a different name or make it sound more fancy.

But in general, it's the same thing that already exists.

So when you try things, I would say the major difference is

pain, injury and repair the skin

and then non-invasive treatments.

So I always try both because I want to know about it.

I want to learn about it.

And I prefer because I don't like pain.

I don't like any downtime.

This is just me.

And as I mentioned many times before,

I cry when I plug my eyebrows.

I'm a sensitive flower, right?

So I prefer the approach to have something that changes my skin

without being in pain and without crying and without having any downtime.

This is me.

And so I always say,

they're different approaches.

You choose.

A strapless brother stays put or wire-free support that actually supports.

That is Nala.

They do the inclusive sizing, A to J, wire-free support

and straps that stay put past 3pm.

Right now, Mamma Mia subscribers have 25% off site-wide.

We call it the subscription that pays for itself because realistically,

one Nala shop and I do shop at Nala very often,

it covers the cost of your membership for months.

If you are already a subscriber,

the code is in your subscriber hub.

And if not, join via the link in the show notes

and you can unlock it instantly.

Support Women's Media,

while Nala supports you.

I also want to know what you're using, what you're doing

because when you have access to the best, you've got all your knowledge.

So tell me,

I want to hear about your skincare routine.

Like, what is your morning and nighttime skincare routine look like?

As you know, in your late 40s, right?

You have to do a lot more than you had to do in your 20s and 30s,

because your skin doesn't bounce back as quickly as it does,

meaning if I had a night of terrible sleep, you see it.

You see it in my skin, you see it in my energy, et cetera, et cetera.

And so apart from looking after myself a lot better,

than I did in my 20s and 30s,

my skincare changed as well.

Meaning I'm way more careful,

in general, going in the sun,

wearing SPF, avoiding the midday sun, et cetera, et cetera.

And so my skincare routine,

at the moment,

consists of a very, very, very simple routine.

As you know, I love the brand Bauté Pacific,

which is very underrated,

and a lot of people still don't know about it.

I love the technology behind the science behind.

I don't like the packaging, no one does.

I don't like the way they do marketing,

but I love what's inside the bottle, which is the most important thing.

My all-time favorite cleanser is Nemo Cleanzing Gel Light.

Again, I'm a sensitive flower,

so I always like to use something gentle.

It's soap free and works in a pH value 4.5,

meaning it's very, very slightly acidic

to have the benefits of the acids

that deeply hydrate, very gently exfoliate

and prepare my skin for the skincare that follows.

Because a lot of people,

and I was told a long time ago,

just use water in the morning,

and I know a lot of people do that.

So it's interesting that you're sensitive,

but you're still using a cleanser in the morning.

Absolutely.

So there's a few different things I have to answer to

that you actually understand why I do what I do.

For a long period of time,

I absolutely believed in the same thing,

just use water in the morning,

because most skins from their nightcare routine,

they're quite sensitive, especially when they use prescription vitamin A, etc., etc.

So their skins, again, are not in the condition

to be able to be cleansed in the morning,

and again, depends on the cleanser.

But one of the things that made a massive difference for me

is introducing a water filter.

If someone wants to change one thing

that massively improves the hydration of your skin,

the sensitivity of your skin, the dryness of your skin,

is get a water filter.

It doesn't really matter which one.

There's so many brands out there now,

and doesn't matter.

As soon as it filters chlorine, fluoride,

and all of those things out of the water,

that exact itchiness and stuff that you describe disappears.

Like I barely even use a body moisturizer now,

because I always bath or shower in a filter,

or I use a filter.

And now going back to your question,

if someone has a good skin care routine

and doesn't overuse active,

doesn't have a broken barrier,

they are absolutely able to use a cleanser.

And again, don't forget the cleanser that I love

and always recommend is so free.

So it will never strip your skin.

It will never dry out your skin like most cleansers do

when they have AHAs or PHAs,

which is the gentle form of it.

And so the reason why I use it in the morning,

it's actually not about cleansing the skin per se.

It's more about preparing the skin

for the products that I use afterwards.

What's your next step?

So my next step, very, very simple,

a shaperone serum and a shaperone day cream,

very, very simple.

And that serum has a new ingredient in it

that actually hydrates five times more than hyaluronic acid.

And I have noticed the biggest difference,

really, in the hydration and how my skin holds hydration.

And again, the skin was able to prove it

because for me, the most important thing is hydration

and calm skin.

That's the most important thing.

And so with this one, even after a few days,

I was like, oh my god,

just the skin looks so much healthier,

so much more dewy.

And by using that serum, my skin drinks it.

I mean, how they always say you need to use one or two drops.

I use a full pipette for face, neck and neck.

I always give my skin what it needs.

And I don't go for, okay, one or two drops.

As they always say, I always go harder.

And same thing with the day cream.

So that's literally what I do in the morning,

but the most important part, I forgot.

And you will know that product very well.

You know the smell and you recognize it even yesterday

as I applied it on your skin.

My puffy ice gel, that's the product.

I wake up in the morning with my ice wake up with this

and instantly helps me to de-puff my ice.

I forgot that one.

That's the first one.

And some OG U Beauty listeners

will recall Lee talking about that product as well.

As soon as you applied it, I was like,

that's beautiful.

You know, obviously when you're working in a clinic,

because those are the products, the sheets, right?

So you've got the mattress and the sheets.

And so you're really putting a lot of thought and time

into what are the sheets that are complementing

all the mattress treatments that you're doing.

Do you have any other brands

that you want to get on UB's radar?

So all the brands that we pick, again,

have been tested for a long time with our skin

so that we know that they are really working.

And the two other brands I work with are Nemo,

which is a South African brand and Genetic,

which is a French brand.

Both of them work very sciencey

with very sophisticated delivery systems.

So I always say it's not the ingredient,

it's the delivery system into the skin.

So yes, you can work with peptides,

you can work with retinols,

you can work with the vitamin C, whatever it is.

But it's how you get it delivered into the skin

to bring it to the target cell

that it actually makes a difference.

On our Friday episodes, we do spendy-savvy.

So we do a more investment, spendy product recommendation,

and then a savvy.

So I'd love to ask, you know, what's your spendy

and what's your savvy?

The one product that I really think is worth investing in

is the Victoria Beckham Foundation drops.

I was not expecting that.

I absolutely adore it.

And again, it depends on the finish that you want to achieve.

Again, I'm late 40s, right?

Sensitive flower, et cetera, et cetera.

I like the no makeup look.

I like skin to look like skin,

but the most dewy and glowing finish.

That's what I like.

After trying five million things,

of course, I always loved it cosmetics.

For sure.

And I still absolutely love it.

And I never thought I would love something more.

But this one is better.

Yeah, wow.

And so the main reason is

because when you apply it,

it looks like you wear nothing,

but your skin just looks better.

It just looks better.

And even after you wash it off,

it feels amazing.

And what's your savvy?

Number one is the Baptiste Drey Shampoo.

Even that it is not a face product I swear to God.

No, I'm obsessed with these recommendations.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And they are really very genuine.

And I love them.

This is a Drey Shampoo I swear by.

Which works for my very fine hair.

And it makes me look like I actually washed my hair even when I didn't.

And I would say when you buy it on sale for $9 or something,

right?

And it lasts forever.

I would say that is my savvy.

Karina, thank you so much for coming in,

spending some time with us,

and just explaining and breaking everything down.

And that's all we have time for today.

Thank you so much for listening to U Beauty.

Make sure you are following us on Instagram, on TikTok.

You can also get your beauty fix on YouTube.

Make sure you subscribe so you never miss a new episode.

Plus sign up for our weekly U Beauty newsletter.

It drops every Friday at 10 a.m.

for the best in beauty of the week.

For now, thanks for joining me and see you next time.