The Northern Star | Better Call Murdock - A Daredevil: Born Again After-Show

Hello everyone, it's Zach Perlstein, the editor in Chief of the Boardwalk Times, and welcome

back to Better Call Murdoch, a Daredevil born again after show.

Joining me today on the pod is the legend himself, Giovanni Delgadillo.

Hey, it's me, Giovanni, I'm on the pod!

Nice to have you back, Giovanni, it's going to be a great season breaking down, Daredevil

born again, and also joining us today is another legend, Boardwalk Times columnist, Joaquin

Fernandez.

Oh, hey everyone, what's up?

Glad to have you guys both back with us for this season of Better Call Murdoch, and we're

going to get right into this new episode, kicking off season two of born again, I really

enjoyed it, and I feel like we should just do our devil digits.

What were your guys' kind of scores for this episode?

Just very briefly, because I did notice I'm really listening to the podcast last season,

I tended to oververvilize my scores, and also I do feel like I gave some of the early

episodes higher scores in retrospect, so with that being said, I'm giving this one

a conservative 7.5, where I'm in between, it was good, and it was great, because the episode

has great moments overall, but I do want to save higher ratings for the rest of the season.

Yeah, and I guess I was a little higher on it than most people, but I would say probably

give it like an 8.9, just because it was really good.

I rewatched the last two of the first season, and honestly, I think this was better than

those last two episodes, so I think it was a great start to the season.

I thought it was a great start as well, I'm going in that 7.7 range, even though I really

liked it.

I mean, I could go higher, but I feel like I went with 7.7 because I keep on hearing

that, oh, the rest of the season is just so much better, so I'm like trying to score

it a bit wisely, but who knows, our scores might be all over the place by the time this

is all set and done, but I think another thing that makes our after show special is that

both Giovanni and Joaquin, their Daredevil hardcore fans, I'm more from the MCU side of where

I've just started watching Daredevil through born again, so I kind of view it through a different

lens than most audience members, but I'm also proof that anyone can kind of pick up this

show.

It's not rocket science, so I mean, like, I think it is just another way to get more

fans involved, but I think our first kind of topic of discussion when breaking down this

episode is this, this, this episode really gives us a lot of references to the original

show that was running on Netflix, but it also makes a point to align itself with the

greater MCU, which I kind of found really cool because a lot of fans recently have been

saying that, oh, Marvel television's not going to do that.

And it, to me, this episode is kind of like proof, hey, we're still doing it.

So I thought that was cool, but, you know, Gio, I'll go to you first.

What were some of the kind of like references, either MCU or original that kind of caught

your eye while watching this episode?

So obviously the big one was Valentina, of course, as soon as I heard that name, I was

like, holy crap, like they're actually doing that.

And I think I would like to expand what you're talking about a little bit because it feels

like previously some of the shows were almost so singular to where, yeah, they would kind

of reference things, but not in real time.

Does that make sense?

So it'd be like, here's Miss Marvel talking about Captain Marvel, but things that she's

done in the past versus like you had shows like Falcon and Winter Soldier and Wandavision,

et cetera, that were bridges between different parts of the MCU, but you could technically

not watch them and still understand what's going on versus Daredevil.

It finally feels like they're doing both at the same time in the season.

So it's like not only is this taking place during current day MCU and they're very clearly

referencing big names, they're also keeping it in line with its own little grounded New

York universe.

They're building up here, the street level stuff from the defenders universe.

It's marrying both so well.

And I want to say for a lot of the Daredevil fans, I know like Joaquin, I know you probably

reacted the same way.

They referenced a lot of things in the original, so most specifically some of the more niche

stuff.

And I don't say niche like, oh, yeah, only hardcore fans, it's just like people who watch

the original will feel like, oh, they're not ignoring it this time.

So stick is his psychotic sense, so to speak that he mentions, he's a prominent character

in the first two seasons of Daredevil.

And dude, I used to crap on stick all the time.

So hearing Matt call him a psycho, I'm like, hell, yeah.

So that was cool.

And then obviously we get an official picture of Ben Yurick during one of, we don't know

what characters doing these parodies of, you know, Mayor Kingpin stuff, but pretty sure

it's BB question mark.

And so that was cool.

We actually get to see Ben.

We also get to hear, I almost called her character, the actress's name, we get to eat

Karen Page, talk about Ben Yurick and how much he means to her.

Because that's a huge part of the first season is their relationship before Kingpin kills

him.

And then the last thing that we kind of hear very briefly is she mentions Jess, which

of course has to be Jessica Jones.

And obviously she hasn't appeared yet.

We know she's appearing this season.

Little things like that, I'm like, dude.

And then some people have pointed out they think Mr. Charles is a stand in for Julia

Louis Dreyfus.

And I'm like, I mean, maybe like technically works with her, but I like that his character

is so, he's similar, but not similar enough to where it's like, oh, yeah, we're just,

we can't afford to put Julia, Louis Dreyfus in the show.

So let's invent a new character.

It definitely feels like he's a liaison.

There are deeper theories there.

But for now, it's like, oh, yeah, OXC is doing, you know, OX is doing some illegal underground

stuff.

It isn't anything new if you've watched Thunderbolts.

So I think that's brilliant that they're tying this all in.

Anyways, that's just like my two cents and all the references.

There were a few others I may be forgetting of Davengers tower, obviously is in a shot,

which honestly, it looks so realistic in that shot that like, it blends in with the New

York photography they do for the show.

So well, that I missed it completely until people were discussing it online.

I'm like, holy crap.

How did I miss that?

So that's a huge one for Joaquin.

The guys can't really see it.

But right now his background is one of the original Daredevil posters from the original

show.

And in those posters, they would show the Avengers tower, but it was never seen in any

of the defender shows.

So actually getting to see it tie in like this.

And most specifically, the Valentina de Fontaine version, crazy.

It's peak.

I think I've seen, like you said, Avengers tower, honestly, just hearing stick, I mentioned

was really cool.

And just kind of ties in more of like Daredevil's upbringing.

And obviously we see that just, or we hear the Jessica Jones mention, which is great

as well.

But it's in an organic way.

I think like the first season they're blending in both pre-overhaul and post-overhaul

in this season that you feel like this is just show up the Netflix show, just continue.

We're seeing so many references, like Ben Yurick, we're seeing like the legacy of these

original characters, but we're building the story from season one.

So people that hadn't watched the original show still understand it, and it's still

Daredevil.

So like it all makes sense.

But this episode I think was great just seeing the action from the first like opening scene

on like the northern star.

I was like, wait, this is like Winter Soldier, I don't know if anyone got that.

I don't know if anyone got that vibe.

I was like, wait, it's like Winter Soldier, he's just like he's taking out these guys.

And the suit is perfect.

It's honestly my favorite Daredevil suit.

Agreed.

It's the best suit they've done.

Like the double d's are perfect.

No, but really they're awesome just to see the symbol after like over 10 years in

the MCU.

We haven't gotten this iconic symbol for Daredevil, which is crazy.

Hey, I'll take it and honestly, just seeing it in action and they ending as well.

We'll talk about that.

But just the action I think was we're already better than I think season one, especially after

rewatching the last two and first episode of season one, which is funny enough, the Benson

and Moorhead episodes.

So I think the action is a lot stronger so far.

And I think the story is a lot more interesting because I mean, it grows on the run, you know.

So I think it was a really solid start to the season.

I do too.

And I think the stakes are way higher and they're just coming from a place where it's like

the intensity is just there.

And I also appreciate like as a viewer, they made the kingpin stuff really work logically

because I feel like the first thing when you're watching the shows, how is kingpin able

to get away with the anti vigilante task force?

How is he able to just basically go rough shot all over New York City like this?

And with the Mr. Charles stuff, with the Val stuff and like, you know, the power from

the top, it just gives more believability of like, oh, this is why kingpin is getting

away with everything.

Like, oh, why isn't the governor of New York stopping the mayor?

Like that would be the simple, there would be no show.

Like that would be the simple solution essentially.

So I'm glad they even like took the time to even address that because it made it, I

think even more complex now because you have this mayor who is running rough shot.

But he's also now, you know, it's kingpin's now kind of working with a wider net within

the MCU.

And that was kind of teased in Hawkeye, you know, because you know, Hawkeye himself knew

who kingpin was, which I mean, an Avenger knew who a mob boss was.

So, you know, there was some interesting stuff there.

So I'm very curious to see what his future is, but you brought up the Northern Star

Joaquin and the winter soldier parallels and that to me was, that's a great kind of comparison

because that's kind of what I felt.

But I also think, and I think both of you will agree with this, the action, you know,

brutal out of the gate, but I feel like it's going to get even more brutal.

So I'm bracing myself because you guys know me.

I get a little squeamish sometimes, but this, this was like, still like fist pumping

where you're like, oh, this is awesome though.

So I want to add on a few things to what you're real saying, because I think it's, there's

so many things that we can say before we even get to the future of the series, just going

off of this first episode, I honestly can't believe I didn't make the winter soldier

connection.

I'm so glad you brought that up because think about it.

The Lumerian star, the name of the ship and winter soldier is the crux of the entire

story because it's the, oh, this is a ship where illegal activity is going on and Nick

Fury is trying to figure it out.

And now we have something similar here where Daredevil finds out what the illegal thing

is, but now he has to get that information out.

And that's a whole, that's basically the starting point of this story.

So I find it very funny that you bring that up and like, wait a minute.

This is practically identical.

So what, but what is interesting, I will say, right out the bat, not only is the action

huge, like it's way upgraded over the original series even, like the thing is, if you go

back and watch the original, none of that's saying any of it looks bad, but you can definitely

tell it was made for TV.

Like a lot of the action scenes are really great, but they're like kind of like mid-budget

ish.

This is like next level stuff, the camera works insane, the use of the batons is completely

new.

He really didn't use them very much, especially in season three, he didn't really use

them at all.

But here we're seeing him using like crazy as like a grappling hook as, you know, like

throwing them around to hit people far away.

I'm like, wow, that is so cool.

And the brutality of it, like you said, but here's a key detail.

And this is why I'm bringing it back to everything Joaquin was saying as well.

Not only is this suit beautiful looking, I think it's the most form fitting.

It's been like ever.

And so it looks ridiculously slick during the action scenes where you see daredevil flipping

around and it looks like a ninja suit.

It looks like it would, if you're reading a comic book and they have these skin tight

outfits, it, it's so well made.

And you're like, wow, why, why did the old one look so bulky then when they could have

done this the whole time?

Like, it looks amazing.

It makes Charlie Cox like stand out so much like his physique.

I'm like, wow, dude.

And just there's all these amazing things going on so early in the season that it does make

you think like, what, what are we in for if everyone keeps praising the rest?

And I do want to make this comparison now while you're brought it up, Zach, this is another

thing I want to mention.

I do think this is finally, truthfully, and we said this during season one, Marvel's

Andor.

I legitimately believe that this time around, these think about it.

It's a political show about a resistance.

And these first few episodes kind of start with like a buildup or whatever.

And this character's on the run.

He's underground.

He's very not not the same kind of show, but it's similar in that, oh, well, how is the

government not getting involved in all these things?

So I think it's also taking the ideas from season one and grounding them because I will

mention since I rewatch the entire season, you can see how they patchworked it together

to make it a coherent cohesive story.

It's very obvious on rewatch like a lot of people point to the ADR.

I'm like, no, no, no, just look at the scenes that were obviously reshot.

Any of the scenes with Vanessa in them in season one, we're all post overhaul because

of the recasting of Vanessa and then taking that back and casting ale it again.

So it was very weird.

They had originally recast the character and all the scenes we get with her are the original

actress post overhaul.

And so when you're watching them, you can tell them like, oh my God, these scenes are

just here to make sure that the whole plot makes sense.

So a lot of the Vanessa stuff and the Vanessa Fisk stuff is there to kind of mesh it all

together.

And then the three separate episodes are the actual story.

So while Ken and you watching all three of those, you basically got the entire plot of

the season.

I didn't miss it.

I didn't feel like I missed much.

I was like, oh, yeah, I'm used.

I kind of, you know, brush over that and like, oh, yeah, um, that happened.

12 eyes back.

You know, he's only in those three episodes.

It's like, that's basically all you need.

And then we get the mirror fist stuff mentioned throughout.

So it's like, yeah, those, I didn't feel like I missed much besides the muse storyline.

So here's the thing, too.

Imagine if it had started without the first episode last season, they were just going

to jump into, yeah, Kingpin's the mayor now.

Like they, that was just going to be a thing.

And so you can tell that this season, they're not only taking that idea and pushing it further

with, hey, what would happen if the government got involved or like, why wouldn't they already?

We're taking it way more seriously and you can tell a lot of the time in the writing.

I'm going to save the dialogue in this season is already razor sharp, because I noticed

this on rewatch a lot of the scenes in last season, even in the three overhaul episodes

are a ton of exposition, not bad exposition, like they're trying to disguise it.

But the idea is that like, oh, crap, we have to cram so much lore into three new episodes.

Like obviously we're going to have to explain a few things, whereas here, the dialogue

felt way more natural and there were a lot of great little moments like the one with Matt

and the watch where we get that amazing Benson and more head, you know, aspect ratio changing

for what he's listening for this watch.

And then he puts it in a box and you know, oh, he did that on purpose, so he can listen

for it later.

Like he needed something mechanical that he can find with radar sense.

Like that's so smart.

And he doesn't explain that you just know as an audience and reviewing it.

And there were a few other sequences like that.

But point is, this is a huge market upgrade over season one, because they're not doing

this post-overhaul.

So they don't have to rush shooting.

They don't have to Frankenstein a story together.

This is their own story based on the good ideas they had in that original show, because

Mayor Kingpin is actually a cool idea to adapt, because Kingpin's already gotten so far

before, why not push it to the furthest brink.

And we're already seeing how they are, they are not over promising.

Ladario said during all of the press for season one that Musa is going to be a big part of season

two, and he was not lying.

Like I love that we're getting to see that costume still in use, even though the character

himself has passed away, and it's obviously like probably a stuntman under there.

But the point is that they're building up this storyline with Heather and little things

like that.

I really think this is going to be a much stronger season, just one episode in, then pretty

much all of season one, even the good episodes.

Like you can kind of tell that this is a more mature vision of what they were going for

with the Mayor Kingpin storyline.

I totally agree.

And Joaquin, what was your thoughts on like the supporting cast just kind of being

upgraded within this first episode of season two?

Obviously we've discussed BB and also like to kind of harken back to Geo's kind of and

or comparison.

And doors also show that's known for its supporting cast where no role, no role is too small.

And I kind of feel like born again is kind of becoming a show like that, whether it is

a Mr. Charles or a Heather or a BB, you know, like, you know, even down to is the British

guy.

His name Winston, what's the British guy's name?

It's Duke or who's the British guy that Kingpin has now?

I know his comic book name is bullet, but I forget his actual name.

It's it's a scape box.

Buck Cashman.

It was it was escaping me.

It was escaping me.

I Winston Winston, someone though.

Why do I know?

Wesley.

Wesley is the name of his original second hand guy.

Okay.

So yeah, that's probably where.

Just do Wesley.

Sorry.

Osmosis, but Joaquin, like what I was saying, like, what's been your take with the supporting

cast so far?

Is there been like any standouts for you within just watching this first episode?

Yeah.

Like, I always said, I did a rewatch to you as a geo said, I only rewatched the last two

and then the first episode of season one.

But I think this first episode makes you care a lot more about the side cast.

Like we care a lot more about like, obviously, BB was a great character or, you know, a strong

character in season one, but it's great to see her like, you know, her and Karen bonding

over, you know, their history with her uncle.

And then we see a cherry actually, which is kind of a controversial character.

I will say that I think he's actually pretty good this episode.

Like, we actually care about him and we get to like the ending, you know, there's like

parallels with foggy.

So like, you actually do like start to care about cherry in a way where season one, he just

wasn't developed enough.

I think he was kind of expected to be this character that you assume there is major history

because they told us, but we didn't really see it.

So you're just like this, I guess, long time friend of Matt and, but this season or this

episode so far, we actually see him help out Matt.

He believes in him, you know, he kind of gives him information and we see him in danger

at the end.

So we actually kind of, I cared for him.

I was actually worried for him.

I thought he was going to bite it.

I'm not going to lie.

I think him, Michael again, Ophini, I think his, his character is been pretty great.

You know, we're seeing him slowly rise up the fish, I guess, ranks and I have a feeling

that he's probably going to get cooked by the end of the season.

So yeah, I guess I look forward to that.

But the side cast is actually really good.

This like, you know, I've been seeing a lot of people online say that they've been

sent a more head just upgraded the cast, I think in terms of just their development,

their screen presence, they feel like their actual characters, they're not just like

blank slates, they're kind of there like, you know, like Geo said and kind of just expedition

domes.

So they're actually like characters that exist in the world of Daredevil and we're actually

going to care alongside, you know, the legacy characters I care in and we're going to

see, you know, Jessica Jones later the season.

So I think the supporting cast so far has been strong and I'm kind of excited to see where

their stories go this season.

And I had that Kirsten is such a great addition and I thought her scenes in this episode

were really strong because it's like obvious why she has rapport with Matt, even though

originally she was very clearly going to be replacement foggy.

I like that she isn't the same character as foggy.

She has concerns for Matt, but they're different than foggies because foggy is obviously

his best friend and as Charlie Cox has put it, he's like the beating heart of the show.

So to speak and I like seeing her on her own now without just showing up in scenes that

Matt happens to be in and that's also noticeable with Cherry.

I liked his rapport with Matt felt a lot more natural like they had natural chemistry

so that the ending scene hits a lot harder and he also speaks a lot more casually whereas

in the first season, he's constantly like, Matt, bad things are happening.

You can't be Daredevil anymore and that's like basically all of the scenes.

And so I thought this is great.

And also getting to see his home life, finding out that the reason his nickname is Cherry's

because his last name is Pits, his name is Clark Pits.

So Cherry Pits is pretty funny, but little things like that.

And I think Buck Cashman was my standout of like the old characters, I was like, or sorry,

the new characters getting upgraded.

I was like, dude, he's like kind of scary now like everyone keeps comparing to Wesley

because I feel like this controversial.

I've always found the Wesley character in season one, like he's cool, but it feels like

the actor is trying a little bit too hard to make him cool.

And the one scene he has with Karen, which I won't spoil that for his act.

I thought that was the one scene where the mask came off and I'm like, oh, okay.

So that is basically a face he's just doing in front of Kingpin.

But anyways, Buck is a completely different guy and you can tell he's like a menace.

I love his like whole cool calm demeanor of like, oh, I'm just some stereotypical British

guy like I'm just here to do whatever versus the officer Powell stereotypical like evil

cop character who that actor is so good at that character screw that guy.

He was annoying in season one and I feel he's going to be even more annoying here in a

good way.

Like he's really good at that character like officer Powell sucks to like someone needs

to beat him up, bro.

Like I need Daredevil like break his legs or something.

And I sure should have been in the season.

Yo, you get him back for last season.

Well, I mean, on the day that we were supposed to get the Daredevil born again season two finale,

we're actually getting a Marvel television special presentation called the Punisher One

Last Kill.

Maybe this guy's go be the one last kill or someone like, you know, maybe who knows what's

going to happen here.

So I mean, I think this episode really kicks off the whole Daredevil versus Mayor Fisk

arc even more.

And we have the anti vaginal anti task force, you have some a lot of people are going missing,

a lot of people on the run, it seems like they're setting up a lot of different potential

storylines to kind of get into.

But as we were also kind of teasing earlier, like the ending of this episode with Daredevil

basically saving cherry.

But then again, he ends up needing saving himself.

I feel like both of you will have some interesting takes on this one because at first, you know,

it took me a few seconds of who threw that knife into that route.

Like who did that?

That's like so well.

And you know, what was it took me a few seconds, but you know, or you guys thoughts on that

big moment to end the episode on.

So I'm just going to say it's very reminiscent of a moment in season three of Daredevil with

our boy Dex where they're in an apartment and they're like, yeah, we're totally safe

at an angle.

No, they're not.

And so I thought it was really cool that he angled the knife to perfectly land in front

of his face.

And even if the physics of it are a little bit absurd, it's like, oh, yeah, of course Dex

would want it to land right there.

He wouldn't just like throw it and have it slanted.

He wanted it to land vertically.

So that was so cool.

I immediately recognized the music, which by the way, I will mention that here in a second.

So it was like, oh, there's a bullseye theme.

There's this handwriting from season three.

So that's 100% Wilson Bethel's handwriting that they kind of like copied whoever did the

prop did a great job.

And what I thought about that scene, some people on Twitter said it and I didn't think

about it in the moment.

That was a fake out ending where they the ending, the fake out is, oh, no, Matt's unmasked.

He's cooked.

And then all of a sudden you just see people dying.

I'm like, that has to be bullseye.

There's no way.

And then of course it was, but it was still shocking in the moment.

I'm like, who would have saved this guy like it and then it has to be bullseye because

he's the only character he's known for headshotting that quickly.

Like, it has to be him.

And of course, it's him.

So who knows what that story is going?

A lot of people think that the northern star is a double entendre because Zach in season

three, one of Dex's things is that he needs a figure in his life to keep him in check.

So he's not a psychotic and he's mixed the therapist, nicknamed that the north star.

And in this case, people are certain of theorize that his northern star might actually be Matt

Murdock, which would be really interesting.

So like he has like a hero figure that he's looking up to, but in his own delusional

way.

So I love Dex as soon as they announced that he was coming back last season after originally

not going to appear at all.

I was so happy because they tease him in an end credit or like ending scene because I

don't think they had any credit season in that flick show as him coming back as like

official bullseye.

And then we obviously didn't get to see that happen for a long time.

So to see it happen and then expand on it.

And him talking about all I want to do a bullseye special like we're so back we've come

so far.

We went from not having him back to now he's all over the place like thank you Wilson

Bethel is so good as the character like I love bullseye.

So one of these I can't wait to see more of him.

I keep hearing critics say that he's probably one of the best parts of the season.

And I'm like, you can't tell me that I'm already a massive bullseye fan.

I can't wait any longer like so excited.

So this is going to be awesome.

Yeah, no, it was awesome to see that Dex tease.

I think like it's just funny because he writes that and like he doesn't know that Matt's

blind.

Right.

I'm assuming not.

So he just wrote that and he just expects him to see that.

I think Matt just be like, what?

Just a knife.

But I think he knew from the trajectory like, oh, yeah, that's probably Dex.

But then he's probably like, why would he save him?

So I'm so excited for the next episode.

But also I'm interested to see what like Dex's storyline going to be.

You know, like his northern star that's probably what's going to happen.

And I'm wondering like, I know he mentioned that like Wilson Beffel mentioned that there's

going to be like almost a redemption, like a Vader, like redemption for him this season.

So I'm wondering what that's in a mean.

And if like we're going to see a straight up redemption or I think it's going to be a twisted

version of that.

He's not.

I think it will be.

I don't think it's going to be like, oh, yeah, I saved the day and I may have killed

Foggy, but I feel bad about it.

So.

I'm going to kill these bad guys.

Yeah.

I'm a vigilante now, which is always funny when they say like technically he's a vigilante,

but he's also like just an assassin like he just kills people.

Yeah, he just kills.

He's like, I don't know what he's like, like fighting for, like he's just a hired gun.

But I think for fists, it's like anyone of a mass, you're a vigilante.

But I'm so excited to see Dex and that new suit too, because like from like the trailers

and everything, I think his suit looks a lot cooler this season.

The same both of them just fitted out.

It's going to be so cool this like next episode, I hope.

Dude, and apparently not to get to ahead of ourselves speaking of suits.

He should be hopefully fingers crossed, donning him even more comic accurate one in the future

at some point, not necessarily this season, but they said that the costume designer said

they were getting notes or I think it was sauna actually sorry, the producers were

getting notes from Wilson about, hey, can we make the suit look like this?

And so I think basically everyone is on this show gets their characters like pretty hardcore

like Charlie Vincent, now Wilson.

They're like big fans of the characters they play and you can kind of tell like something

I want to bring up speaking of the scene where Matt gets unmasked.

This episode had way more Charlie Cox acting without glasses on than the entirety of the

first season.

I didn't notice that until I started thinking about him like, wait a minute, why does this

look so familiar?

Because it was making me think of the old show.

And then I realized that holy crap, he like barely did this in born against season one where

he's completely maskless and glassesless and it reminds you of why he's so good at the

character like this dude literally won an award from blind advocates like association because

of how realistic his acting is and no, he's just killing it again.

And his chemistry with Debra and Wall is Karen is great as well because that's most

of the scenes where he's unmasked.

And I think that her demeanor in this is so cool like she's becoming this underground

like resistance fighter, you know, using her journalism skills like she did in the original

show and now she's, you know, getting into fighting, which is also kind of like the original

show they were building up to that.

So I think this parent is great.

And I'm super excited to see it continue because Zach doesn't know the lore, but Karen and

Matt haven't always been like this like cutesy couple like we're seeing now it was always

like kind of an on and off like will they won't they thing?

And a lot of it had to do with her not knowing that he was daredevil.

And now it's like, oh, the mask is fully off.

It's like a MJ's fireman moment where it's like, okay, they have full trust now.

And they're both doing the same thing.

So yeah, we'll see where that goes.

But having her in the show also makes it feel a lot more like the original show.

I will say that like the fact that the original pitch for born again didn't have any of the

cast except for Vincent and Charlie's insane, you know, hindsight.

So yeah, you know, Kerstens fun, Terry's fun, but like they just come out of nowhere.

Like that's not that's not how it works.

So I don't know, I think this is really fun.

It's super stoked to see where they go with all these characters and how they evolve.

Feels like this season is maybe the definition of if it isn't broke, don't fix it.

And I feel like they are kind of, you know, continuing what worked in the original run.

And then they're also, you know, continuing what worked in born again as well.

So it seems like it's kind of the melting pot mix here of making the show really work.

And also regarding bulls, I do wonder how his arcs will play out because obviously we

know we have a season three of Daredevil.

But now with the whole valve thing, the ox group thing, as I mentioned earlier, this might

have been actually off the pod actually is that I am very curious to see if we ever get

official alignment of when is Daredevil born again season two taking place.

Is it actually before Thunderbolts is this the incident that causes Valentina to get impeached

or get, you know, put under investigation, you know, where how could this tie in with

that greater MCU?

Because as Gio also mentioned earlier on the pod, I do really love that they're doing this

because it does feel very real time.

It feels very like true to reference and maybe it's because we just got Thunderbolts or

maybe it is because you know, Avengers Doomsday is later in the year, but like it just to

me, it really works.

And also it's funny, we've gone majority of the podcast without really addressing the

elephant in the room of, you know, a certain hero in New York in this show having a connection

with certain, certain cast members are going to be in a certain film later this year.

So I mean, I'm shocked that hasn't been brought up yet, but it just shows you how good of

an episode that this is that we haven't even really gotten sidetracked into that.

So I just want to say that.

So I do have a quick side comment because you brought up Mr. Charles again.

And this is another great writing moment that I wanted to point out.

We get a great idea of who this guy is in one scene immediately his introduction.

Not only do they never say, oh, he works for the CIA once, they never bring it up once,

you already know.

Okay, this he literally says on from Langley, they show the White House in the background

of the first scene that all visual storytelling.

And then we see him dunk his, you know, disposable phone and like, but he's so casual about

it.

And this is going to sound funny.

Have you guys seen, I know, while King, we probably talked about this already, videos

from John Kirikau or Kirikou, the XCIA whistle blow guys been blowing up on social media

as that.

And I'm like, I'm going to put this on his videos.

Mr. Charles is basically that guy, but like in a superhero show.

Oh my God.

I'm serious, do you think that like, he sounds so similar?

He's very casual and like, oh, yeah, go up to the roof, go up to the, like, like, that's

a meme right now, Zach.

But anyways, the point is, is that I'm watching Mr. Charles.

I'm like, oh, my God.

Like I don't think they based him off of John Kirikau, but this is this is very realistic.

Like, he's so casual in front of the freaking kingpin.

He's just like, oh, yeah, you know, I'm, I'm shaggy, like, what's going on?

And then, and then kingpin's all like, uh, fuck.

And so anyways, I just thought that was really cool that he's introduced this way.

Um, also, I wanted to talk a little bit about the music I mentioned it earlier.

So immediately during Heather Glenn's first scene where she's with, oh, yet another MCU

connection with Swordsman with our boy Lalo from Better Call Saul, Tony Dalton.

And she's interrogating him about stuff.

When she has her PTSD, which by the way, I didn't know this was a detail, but it is the

reason the camera tilts like that is it's a Benson and more head visualizing vertigo.

When you're, when you have a trauma episode, I was like, that is such a cool detail.

And so when they do that and the camera dips, here's an audio detail, they play musists

theme except it's changing and it's kept playing after he left the scene.

So there's this massive theory going around that they're going to push Heather to be a

lady muse, which is a thing from the books.

And apparently it's a little bit mythological.

It's like demonic like she gets there you get for this.

He goes like, I think it means is from hell and he basically, because that says a woman

because he dies too in the comics.

So it's, it's, he has power.

Well, that's fascinating because in this episode, when she does the test with swordsman,

there is an answer.

Have you ever been possessed?

And she erases that I wonder if that is just the subtle like foreshadowing.

Yep, or this.

I can see that.

Yeah.

I could see that.

I think that's them referencing it in a realistic way as opposed to actually doing it.

She's like saying, oh, it's a psychological thing that she might quote unquote get possessed

and she's projecting it onto these vigilantes, so to speak, which is brilliant, by the way.

I think it's so cool.

She's being manipulated by fists to be anti vigilante.

And if you go back and watch season one, they build that story up all season.

She starts hating on vigilantes more and more and more until it explodes when she kills

muse.

And so that, that is their climactic event that leaves her traumatized.

I'm like, dude, that these writers, man, they're cooking like they're taking these stories

that could have been just throw away and be like, let's cook.

And so that's what we're seeing.

I think Garios writing in this episode was so strong that I'm like, I'm so in like this

writing room is about to be so good.

Like, the fact that they're praising the rest of the season is complex.

I'm like, I believe you like just give me the rest of the season now.

Anyways, but I just wanted to highlight those things.

Otherwise the music is all very much basically a lot of music from the first season.

And a lot of new stuff based on stuff from the first season.

So obviously a lot of Daredevil fans are, we're never going to get tired of the Daredevil

theme.

And I'm glad that they've kept it this whole time.

Obviously the new Matt Murdock theme, I love to death.

I think it's awesome.

And every time they play it, I get goosebumps.

So anyways, super cool work from the Newton Bros.

They're like my Marvel MVPs right now.

So I'd, man, so much I could say, so much I could say.

If Heather Glenn becomes muse, though, is she going to like rock the same costume?

Please.

I think in the comics, it's basically just like, yeah, and she says hair.

And that's basically the only difference is hair like that's basically it.

That's a cool costume.

Yeah, we'll see, we'll see.

I think she would look pretty cool in that costume.

It's such a good design.

They, I knew they didn't want to waste it, bro.

I'm like, they killed that character.

We were all in denial.

And I'm like, oh, no, he's technically he's dead.

But they're still using that badass costume.

Like, like that was probably arguably the best costume in season one.

Like, I would say so like Dexas costume is, you know, fine,

but he didn't have the bulls eye until this season.

And obviously this terrible costume is like a massive upgrade.

And it's basically the same one, but paint it over and just form fitted better.

And it has the double D's like it's really not that much different.

But those minor differences make it stand out.

I mean, literally the poster behind my head.

Which shout out the marketing team.

We glaze them all of season one.

And they're still on fire.

The artwork for this season is the best Daredevil artwork I have ever seen

for this show, like for the marketing side of it.

Obviously the books are a different story.

But for marketing, this stuff is killer.

It's like, we thought the poster of Daredevil

switching from his like black costume and then getting set on fire

with the red one was peak.

And then we get this thing behind me.

The, oh my god, like I can't praise it enough.

I can't praise the amazing TV spots we've been getting.

They're the editing is on fire.

The overuse of childish Gambino's Latonia.

I don't care.

It's great.

They just, they've been killing it.

And now I feel like Ron Tomatoes is going to do the rest of the marketing for them.

Like they just keep up the momentum.

They already have the great rating on Ron Tomatoes.

This show is already making waves.

Everyone who was a Daredevil fan on Twitter agreed

that this episode was not slow at all.

So like, what were they talking about?

Like this is awesome.

So anyways, I just wanted to glaze them again real quick.

I, I was going nuts over this poster last night.

Like you have no idea.

I was with my friends in a call and I was like, oh my god.

Like I sent one of them the poster and he immediately goes,

bro, no way, that's peak.

And kind of goes in line completely off topic

about how human art is still very extremely valuable.

Anyways, yeah, it's all I'm going to say.

Peak.

Very true, very true.

But before we end this episode of Better Call Murdoch,

a Daredevil born again after show,

once again, you can always get our Better Call Murdoch shirt

at boardwalktimes.store.

That one's an instant classic in my opinion.

You know, geo reference, Better Call Saul earlier.

So a better called Murdoch T.

Why not get that T for yourself at boardwalktimes.store?

I know Joaquin's going to.

I see him over there.

He's looking at it.

I will.

He's looking at it.

But boys, before we end this episode,

I have to kind of end it with our traditional.

What in the world do you think is going to happen this season

because man, I usually have predictions.

I usually have a foggy, foggy clue.

But I don't, I don't this season because I just think

it's going to be so chaotic.

It's going to be adrenaline.

It's just, I don't know what to expect.

So I'm kind of leaving it up to Geo on Joaquin today.

What can we expect out of season two of Born Again?

Okay.

I'll walk in, you should, you should take the lead.

I was going to say peak, but I have some ideas.

I think there's a lot.

I mean, obviously they're going with this mirror fist storyline.

So we're going to see more like,

we already see the marketing team.

Like, I don't know if you've seen on,

I think Instagram and Twitter,

we're seeing like posters of all the vigilantes,

like Jessica Jones, White Tiger,

which we'll probably see this season, swordsmen.

So we're going to see them probably.

We're going to have the revolution.

This like revolution, basically like you said,

it's like Marvel's and or because it's going to be this revolution

against Kingpin's empire.

And it's going to be this huge,

coalescing battle for New York,

which is straight out of the comics, like Devil's Ring.

Even though in that, it's a little more,

almost like it's basically Avengers,

like they have like every hero ever,

which we can't really do,

but it's going to be more contained to the street level side,

which I think is going to still be awesome.

I wish we could get, like you mentioned,

or like Spider-Man, you know?

We probably can because, you know, Sony writes or whatever,

but I'm going to suspect that we're going to get some big,

like payoffs to this like revolution, basically this.

What do they call it?

It's like R-R, because the symbol is double these.

And then there's like an R, I think it's like revolution,

rebel, rising.

Rise and rebel?

I think that's right.

Rise and rebel, yeah.

That's their mock, like slogan for, I guess,

their devil's kind of symbol.

So we're going to see kind of that team build up.

And I hope we get more, like at least some mention

or an appearance of, like, Luke Cage as well.

And these other characters, you know,

the street level side of the MCU, I think, is growing.

And we're seeing that they're willing to bring back,

like, actors that we thought were, like, long gone.

So I think I'm just excited to see more peak, honestly.

I'm with you on that.

I honestly, I'm going to say that unfortunately,

I think the marketing kind of paints

a certain picture of what we can kind of expect.

So I'm not going to go too far into, like,

oh, like, this is how I think it's going to end.

But without the marketing, I would guess

that a lot of the subplot surrounding Mr. Charles

is going to be covering up these weapons.

And this is going to be the inciting incident

that'll slowly trickle into other things

that bring kingpin down just like in Captain America,

Winter Soldier.

So I think that's a big deal.

It'll probably expose ox will be like the hydra

of the season, so to speak.

Otherwise, the only other thing I think

that we can talk about openly without

of being too big of like a, like, oh, this could be a spoiler

is I honestly think based on just this episode,

we're going to see Bullseye and Daredevil team up,

even reluctantly.

They kind of did in Daredevil season three,

like unintentionally, like Matt kind of pushes Dex

to be like, hey, you should like, like, totally go fight

kingpin in his dudes.

And then he gets his back cooked.

Yeah, he gets his back cooked.

That's right.

And oh, that's another big one.

I won't mention that any of the marketing sparked it

or anything like that, but I will say I'm hoping

to see kingpin and Matt face off

because it's been years since we've seen that.

And it's, I mean, we've seen it before,

but it'll be really cool to like have this happen once again,

especially in his suit.

The last time they faced off, he was in his Muay Thai ropes

with the, the blindfold homemade outfit,

which it's just so cool that now we have a blend of that

plus the red dude.

If you think about it, it's like, we have the devil suit,

but now it's black like his original look.

And we get the red, I can't get over, it's so cool.

Anyways, so that's kind of my baseline predictions

for the season.

Otherwise, I don't want to think too hard.

I just, I'm along for the ride.

I think this is going to be spectacular,

A.O. Spider-Man.

And so I don't know what else to say.

I really, really wish that he would show up

in a Spider-Man movie, but something tells me

he's not going to.

And that's just sad and annoying at this point.

Like, yeah, okay, we got two seconds of Matt Murdock

in the last movie to come on.

Like this is literally infinite money printer right there.

Like there are so many people clamoring for this.

This show is about to be ridiculously popular.

It's obvious.

And apparently season three, they're saying internally

is going to be even better than this.

Like, what are they cooking over there, dude?

Like, anyways, Marvel television on top,

Brad Winterbaum doing a great job.

I'm so excited at the slate this year's just insane.

It truly is an insane slate this year for Marvel.

And all of us here at Multiverse of Marvel

will be covering the entire year slate

of Marvel storytelling from, you know,

Daredevil to Doomsday.

We will have it all in two brand new day as well.

So we will have all these stories covered in our podcast.

And once again, Gio and Joaquin, thank you

for joining me on this episode of Better Call Murdock.

But before I hit this outro,

can you just let everyone know who's listening?

Where can they find you on social media?

You can find me on Instagram at Twitter at GIO, D-E-L-N-O-P-E.

That's Gio, don't know.

We can hear my hot film music takes.

And on Letterbox, I believe it's just G underscore zero.

I've been doing a lot more reviews lately.

So have fun reading those.

Some of them are really long.

Good luck.

Yeah, and you could follow me on X.

It's a Berna Husto, J-U-S-T-O, double O.

And I'll just mostly just repost Marvel stuff.

So...

Gotcha.

Thank you guys once again.

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