The Ramsey Show - If You’re Waiting for “The Right Time”, You’ll Stay Broke

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life.

From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show

AAA 825-5225 is the phone number to jump in, AAA 825-5225, alongside the good Ph.D.

Dr. John Deloney, that's fun to say, instead of the good doctor, I just mixed it up a little

bit today.

It's more honest.

Well, it's right at.

It's a Ph.D.

You got two of them, folks.

He's going to leverage them both today.

The letter day.

That's what it says.

Okay, that guy's a doctor.

They assume.

Oh, that's great.

Healed me.

Yeah.

So we've got an interesting combo.

We have a lot of fun, so beware.

We'll help you, but we're going to have fun in the meantime.

Sarah's up.

She's going to get us started in Phoenix, Arizona.

Sarah, how can we help today?

Hi.

Well, I have a big question.

I want to know, how do I protect my financial future and regain trust?

Now that I know my partner has been very dishonest about his debt.

Tell us more.

And here's what we want to hear.

How dishonest and how long ago did you find out?

Give us that detail.

Sure.

Sure.

So I found out it's been three sets of dishonesty, but the major one was this recently

in December.

I found out he actually has $65,000 in credit card debt.

Okay.

And finding this out.

How'd you find out?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I thought he only had $10,000 and so I-

Hold on.

Did you make that number up?

Or does that what he told you?

That is what he told me.

Okay.

I am a very straight shooter.

I'm older.

So like I'm like dating.

I hit the high points very early on and he told me he had $10,000 in credit card debt.

So I was like, okay, that's workable.

So he lied in your face.

Come to find out.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

Yeah.

So I planned to, you know, I thought we were going to spend a future together and get

married.

So my Christmas gift was, I'm going to pay off your $10,000 credit cards.

And so I went into his open desktop and found a spreadsheet that actually did not have

$10,000.

It was $65,000.

Okay.

And how long ago was this?

This was December because that was going to be my Christmas gift.

Are y'all still together?

We are still together.

All right.

And you confronted him.

What was that like?

Yeah.

It was very awkward.

He just said he was very embarrassed that he's not really wanted to be in his life.

And he knows like, I'm the person for him.

And like, he didn't want me to run after he found out that truth.

And there's some truth to that because you would have.

Yeah.

Here we are three months later and you're calling us.

Yes.

But this was already a year into our relationship.

I found that.

No, no, no.

Like you said, when he told you the number $10,000, you thought, okay, this is manageable.

Like I can settle for him in this way.

So his impulse, like what he did was wrong.

No question.

But his impulse is right.

She will judge me based on this debt number and will not give a relationship a shot.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So he was, and is there, here I am coming after you, is there, tell me about the integrity

of going through his laptop and going through his financial numbers?

Is that something that was-

Completely accident.

No, it was, my internet went down at my home.

I work remote a couple of days a week and I'm in a, like, executive level.

So I was like, I need internet.

I need a quiet office.

So he's like, just go to mine.

And so when I logged in, because I, I mean, he gave me his password.

I logged in to log in to the internet for my meetings and the spreadsheet was there.

Okay.

So he gave you his computer.

Yes.

No, I'm not, I was not going.

Okay.

But I could not look.

I'm not going to lie.

I went through with there.

Yeah.

But let's just spoil this down.

What, what do you want John and I to weigh in on?

Yeah.

All of the things is one, I get the lie, but I'm very financially and a separate category.

Like I pay off $150,000 in student loans, take the financial piece.

Yeah.

You're very, very judgmental.

Oh, thanks.

That's not good.

And you, you, you, you have put yourself on a pedestal and you are looking, contempt is

one of the four horsemen of the relationship apocalypse, according to the government.

And contempt is a power hierarchy.

I am better than, you get what I mean it like that.

I'm, I'm giving, okay, you may be right, but I'd like to give her a little more latitude.

Okay.

Objection denied.

Yeah.

Keep going.

Keep going.

You were going somewhere, but John may be right.

But I want to play this out.

Keep going.

I was just trying to give a background because again, I met my, I thought I met my person

and so I'm willing to give up whatever it is to help him, but not when he's not being

honest.

It's also being a 35 year old single woman that got her doctorate.

I work 80 hour weeks.

I work four jobs to have someone that's not willing to side hustle the same way and get

that.

That's why we're there.

Okay.

Now, that's why, John.

I wanted a background.

Well, so now, John's absolutely right.

He got ahead of me.

Well, it says not surprising.

It's two PhDs.

I don't have a degree at all for anybody that's keeping score at home and I'm proud of it

and never going to get it.

So I don't care what you think.

However, John did catch it, but I think it's for a different reason.

I don't think you're judgmental, but I think he's on to something.

I'm going to say you're not judgmental, but I think you resent him because you're bringing

up how much work you've done.

You've busted your tail.

You did everything the right way and he's not willing to at least go get a side hustle.

I think you're judgmental on his effort and his just overall gumption.

Is that right or wrong?

Uh, partially, especially when I gift you financial peace and you're not interested.

So to me, that's just been what are we doing here?

I've got a question.

I have to pay off your credit card debt.

I don't know why you're with the guy.

Can I be honest with you?

I don't know why you're with this guy and I'm going to sound awful.

I don't know why he's with you.

Because here's the thing.

Y'all have different beliefs.

Yeah.

And me and my wife have been married 23 and a half years.

We have different beliefs on a thousand different things, but we share values.

Yeah.

That's great.

And y'all don't share values.

And somebody can be a great hang.

They can be super loyal.

They can be somebody you fall in love with.

But if you don't share values, you're going to end up starting your marriage in two separate

boats, rowing as fast as you can and y'all going to end up in separate harbors.

I don't think this is the guy.

And I don't know if that's why you called.

I think I tried to ask you, I don't think that this is a good fit.

Unless he, now listen, I would say this, if you haven't told him all of this, now's the

time to do the old fashioned DTR, define the relationship, but tell him where your frustrations

are and say those frustrations are leading me to fears that you're not for me.

I'd give the guy a shot.

And if you want to give him a shot, here's how I would enter that conversation.

I have judged you and your work ethic, and I've compared it to mine.

I've judged how much debt you have.

I've judged your lack of caring about it.

And I have made my values your problem.

Well, I'm not so much worried about that.

I started counseling with him because again, I'm invested in him in the relationship.

My concern is if we get through the $65,000 debt, is there a way to regain that trust

about finances?

Because I'm sure that he doesn't have a lot of money.

Well, John, tell you how, here's how you regain trust.

It's very hard, but it's very simple.

You give him a map that is 14 days long on what he needs to do to help regain trust.

That might be, I want to see your credit report.

That might be on all your social media accounts, any number of things.

You get to make up the path, and he gets to decide whether he wants to walk that journey

or not.

And after 14 days, you'll reconvene.

When you commit, if you walk this path, I'm not going to keep your lack of, you know,

your dishonesty in my back pocket as an ace that I can play at any time, I'm going to commit

to trusting you as we move forward, slowly and slowly, step by step.

So 14 days and another 14 days and another 30 days and another 60 days, we're going to

give him a road map and give him a chance to follow it.

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All right, Columbia South Carolina is where we're going next.

Lee is there.

Lee, how can we help?

Yes, sir.

I'm just kind of dealing with the situation with my mom here.

We've been living with her for the past few years.

She's going through a divorce.

She's got over $300,000 worth of debt.

And I've been trying to lay it out for her, but she's kind of being prideful about the

situation.

She's her ownership.

I'm just trying to see what I should do.

Should I come up often to move on?

Is there anything else I could do to help her?

Could I like try to get her financial peace university something like that?

Before we get into that part, why are you still living with your mom?

So it happened a few years ago, the situation with me and my wife that we were living in

a different household that kind of deal kind of went sour on that end.

And she offered to let us stay at her home.

My mom is an over road truck driver, and so was her soon to be ex-husband.

And so they're going home like a hundred days out of year.

So they just said, come on and stay with us, save off, and we get your own stuff.

What's the plan to get out?

So we had planned to get out originally within a year of being there, but then not even

six months into us living there.

My mother came to me and asked me for $12,000 to help them deal with their monthly finances.

Okay.

All right.

I know the question is about mom and how do I help her with her dad.

So John, that's a really interesting family situation, and I was wanting to see if there

was any other dynamics with him and living there and all of this business.

So this is kind of sticky.

What do you think?

Yeah.

It's one of the hardest things in the world, brother, is when someone we love is doing

something that is destructive and they have no interest in our education and our wisdom

or our advice.

They just want us to participate in their continued lifestyle.

And so what I want to challenge you on is don't look at her and say she's being prideful

and at the same time become prideful as though you're the key holder to her future change.

Be humble and say she doesn't want my help.

And so all I can control here is me.

And so I will no longer give money.

I will be willing to talk if you're interested in systemic change, not just continue to give

you 12 grand every few months.

And I, it's probably going to cost me my free housing.

And so me and my wife are going to have to figure out what we are going to do next.

For sure.

But behavior is a language.

Do what?

Yeah, we never did give her that 12,000 because that was when we started asking the questions

and found out how crazy the finances were.

And so we kind of started stepping through trying to say, hey, you need to change some things

and that's when her soon to be exos and got upset and decided he did not want to be

around anymore.

Yeah.

Most, most parents do not want to hear their children's input about their money or their

sex life.

Right.

Right.

And on the rare occasion that your mom comes to you and says, hey, I'm over my head.

I need help.

I'll do whatever you say because you and your wife look like you'll have it together.

Then that's an invitation.

I'll walk through that door a hundred times out of a hundred.

Right.

But behavior is a language she has told you repeatedly through her actions.

I don't care what you have to say.

This is my life.

I'm going to live it.

By the way, it can have 12,000 dollars.

Yeah, for sure.

Right.

For sure.

I think you wanted out of it originally and now it's just a mix bag of emotions.

My mother was kind of a victim of abuse as a child and I don't think she's ever really

coped with that fully.

And you diagnosing her or internet diagnosing her, you putting things on her.

Like none of that helps.

All right.

All right.

I get you.

The greatest gift you could give her is you and your wife live such peaceful, financially

responsible, safe lives and not safe in the, you know, take risks and venture.

But safe like you all are a home base for each other.

That is going to be a, your mom may say, I want what you all have and probably she won't.

And I'm going to ask a question of John Lee on your behalf, okay?

All right.

John, I'm wondering if he doesn't need to shift from help mode, worry mode and it's understandable.

He's a good man.

Of course.

I'd be worried about my mom.

But I wonder if he doesn't now need to move to grieving mode and just accept the reality.

Yeah.

There is a, all of the internet diagnostics, all of the, she's got this and she's struggling

with this and she needs to do this.

All of that is, may have some, some drops of truth in it.

But that's a way from, for you to distract yourself from grief, this thing.

My mom is in a bad situation, she's been in a bad situation for a long, long time and

she's been an adult for a long, long time and she's continued in some of these patterns

and now she's got a big huge mess and she refuses my help.

That's heartbreaking and I'm going to spend some time being sad.

Yeah.

And Lee on the back side of that is, what can I do?

I can pray for her if I think that's a thing.

I can love her.

That's a thing.

And I can advise her, as John said, if she comes and asks for advice.

Other than that, my friend, there's nothing you can do and that's why I asked John that

question because it's going to get you to the mental and emotional place that you need

to be toward this sudden drive you bananas.

Is that fair?

100%.

I think grief, grief is simply the gap between what you wanted and what actually is reality.

True.

Right.

Right.

Right.

And man, spend some time in that gap and it's heartbreaking.

We don't have good cultural models for just being sad, just being heartbroken, being in deep

grief for a while.

And then we're going to go do the next right thing for us and our family tree.

Let's go to Scott now and Fort Worth, Texas Scott.

How can we help?

Thanks for taking my call.

Sure.

I get pretty quick question.

I have a rental property.

It's my last piece of debt planning on selling about a year and a half.

And I'm trying to decide if it's a wiser to pay it off or maybe if I have that money

to pay it off, take it and invest it and just kind of pay the mortgage until I'm ready

to sell it, which is probably about the next summer or basically the summer in 2027.

Why don't you sell it now?

I have 10, it's in it and I thought maybe I'd honor the lease.

I have for them and they have about a year and six months.

Can you just still sell it?

I mean, man, if somebody's trying to buy a rental property, how cool would it be for

them to buy a place with at least of a year already signed up?

That's good.

That's what I thought.

I've mentioned it to the real estate agent.

They told me that usually investors, usually looking for a really good deal and kind of sell

the property for less than value.

But I don't know if that's accurate.

That's just kind of a little.

What, give us some real numbers really fast.

What would you, what would you stand to make on it?

Well, I probably, I probably have a hundred thousand in that equity in it.

That's a hundred twenty-five pay off and I have a CD coming mature within the next month

that we cover that.

And it's your only debt.

It's my only debt.

Why do you want to sell it?

Are you trying to be in a landlord?

We just had a lot of lot of changes and I just, you know, focus has changed and just

not, I don't know, just maybe waiting for an older home for something to happen and

have been done more money to it.

I figure now that maybe our within the next year or two, it'll be a good time for us to

sell.

And based on what little bit I know, I would lean that direction.

But I'm a guy that, I kind of go big and momentum when I feel like life is changing, different

season.

I don't know if this fits.

I just do it.

But I think there's a case that I think John is leaning into here to go, do I hold

on to it, given your financial position, what would you do with the windfall that you

would make?

What are you thinking?

With the hundred thousand, I thought I can, I mean, I have two teenage kids that are

fixed and possibly go to school and look into kind of investing them a little bit with

the portion of it.

They realize that we're not paying completely for school.

And so it's something that we partially use for them and they'd be partially used a

few things to do for our primary home and then whatever's left, just making sure, maybe

a little traditional IRA or something like that.

When would you pay the house off if you were not to sell it?

What's your payoff date?

If I wasn't to sell it.

That's right.

I think it would be probably by the end of this month.

To pay it off?

I don't think we're you're understanding what I'm asking.

I'm talking about.

Yeah, he's about to have a CD mature.

Oh, the CD, that's right.

You know what?

That's right.

So you would pay it off.

What do you think, John?

That's interesting.

So basically I have an emergency fund that covers about what you expected.

Here's what I would do.

I would, I would get a second opinion.

I would go to rambsysolutions.com and check out the real estate pros in your area.

And this isn't a sales pitch.

This is exactly what I would do if I'm in your situation.

I would call a real estate pro and say, hey, here's my situation.

I'm of the opinion that when your spirit leaves something, your body needs to leave it

too.

You already want to sell this house.

I would sell your house in the next 30 or 60 days and either have a hard conversation

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Brandon is up next in Shane and Tonyo, Texas.

Brandon, how can we help?

Hi, how are you, gentlemen, doing the day?

Good.

How are you, sir?

I'm very blessed.

Thank you for taking my call.

I just had a brief question for you guys.

I recently transferred over here to San Antonio.

I'm a US Army nurse and throughout my career, I've had multiple conversations about finances

with other soldiers and some good, some have been dead, but when people ask me about what

I follow on what I do, I always point them to Ramsey solutions.

There's this consistent negative mindset among a lot of soldiers that I've met regarding

Ramsey solutions.

The primary reason has always been how Ramsey solutions views debt as evil.

The military promotes a lot of things that put you in the debt, the government traveled

charge card, they try to get you on the AMX Platinum card, they tell you about all the different

loans and mortgages you can get being a service member.

I guess my question is, how, as the average Joe, can I talk to my fellow soldiers about

why putting yourself in debt is wrong, regardless of how sweet the deal looks?

Man, your heart is awesome, brother.

Very good, my friend.

What do you think, Ken?

The reason I'm, there's an old phrase is when the student is ready, the teacher appears,

and I don't want to simplify it to that, but that was my first response.

In John said this in a call earlier today, talking to this guy about his mom, how do I advise

my mom?

I thought what John said is great, and I'll borrow it.

I think the best thing you can do for your fellow soldiers is actually live with financial

peace, and in a way that is humble, you're not walking around talking about how much

you have in your emergency fund and stuff like that, but just live it.

There's an old phrase in the church world, which makes me roll my eyes, but it's applicable

here, John.

I think it's lifestyle evangelism.

In other words, just live in such a way that people go, hey, you know what, when we talk

about all this, like you never say anything, and you kind of have some peace on your face.

What's your deal?

And then you go, oh, well, so I just don't believe in debt, and here's why.

I think that's probably best in the barracks, sorry, for the illiteration, but I think that's

I really do.

I think that's there because institutionally you're right, you describe what's happening.

They're up against that.

If someone does say I want to know more, and they're having a hard time with the debt

is bad thing, I think you have to reframe it.

And there's a simple little construct that I like to use, and that is define the problem,

reveal the solution, give the reason for the solution.

And so the problem is not debt when you talk to somebody who thinks debt is normal.

The problem is the emotion and the stress and the lack of margin and all of the other

things, right?

You can personalize the problem by asking them, how stressed out are you?

What is your debt due to you?

Like ask questions, I like to be an ask, you're not a teller.

That's what hit me first, all the way in the framework of live it and then be able to explain

it well.

John, what are your thoughts?

Brandon, so in 2008 or 2009, I was, I hung out with a bunch of super nerds, okay?

And there was this new thing that came out called the ketogenic diet, and bro, I turned

in to the most annoying diet zealot you could ever imagine.

I ruined, I ruined, oh gosh, Brandon, I ruined every dinner party, no matter where we were,

I somehow shifted the conversation to, let me give you my thoughts on a high fat, no

carb diet.

Okay?

I mean, dude, I was obsessive, and instead of convincing people, people stopped pointing

to hang around me, because they were like, whatever this guy's selling, he's so annoying

about it, I don't want that in my life.

And now I have a new rule, and I've had to develop this rule since I took this new job,

but it served me well in my relationships outside of work, and that is, I only answer

questions that I'm asked.

And like Kim said, I like my life to speak for me first.

And so I want people to come up, I could walk into every dinner, I'm working on a marriage

project right now, I could walk into every dinner and be like, you know what, fix yours

marriage and fix your marriage, and they would all be like, get away from me.

But if I make sure I put in the work every day to have the best marriage possible, and

my wife does too, then people are like, dude, what are y'all doing?

Well, how are y'all, how do y'all still like each other after this many years, right?

And I, here's the thing, Kim nailed it.

You're not going to solve an emotional answer with a data point.

You just not.

Let me look at our country for God's sakes, right?

I mean, you can be like, hey, here's the temperature, and people are like, no, it's not.

Here's the, here's the color of the sky, trader, no, you're not, you know what I mean?

Like, you're not on our side anymore.

And so everything is emotion.

And so I love kids like, bro, do you have peace?

Because I drive an old car instead of a jacked up Jeep that I borrowed for $50,000 and

it's depreciating every second I own it.

I just have an old pickup truck, dude, and I don't mind if it gets dense.

I laugh in the, in the, in the shopping cart.

I mean, the shopping parking lot, when somebody dings it, like, I have peace.

You don't have that.

That's why I don't borrow money, man.

And if you want to do the nerd stuff and go down depreciation schedules and all that,

you can do that.

But that's almost always not the issue.

But hey, thanks for your service and thanks for your heart, John nailed it.

You're just a great American all the way around.

And by the way, you'll have the opportunity.

You'll have the opportunity to speak into people's lives, but you've got to earn that.

And, and John nailed that.

We got to be careful not to be evangelist when they're like, I don't even want to go to

church.

The, the, the two words I have found when people ask me like, and they're being serious,

like, and they're not trying to just mess with me because they know where I work.

Like, hey, for real, for real.

Like, like, you really don't have a credit card.

And the two words that I have found resonate with people are when I say, I solve for peace,

not for arbitrage.

And like, I, I call it a sleep tax.

I paid off my 3.2% mortgage or whatever it was because I could have invested it.

I could have tried to make the get.

I could have known that because I put my head on my pillow every night knowing nobody

can take my house away.

I paid a sleep tax and the other word is freedom.

Nobody owns my family, no bank, no car dealership, no nothing.

So the words peace and the words freedom, those two words seem to resonate when people

are actually asking, why do you avoid debt?

That's good.

Let's go to Mark now.

Mark is in Minneapolis.

How can we help?

Yes.

I'm wondering if I, I know you strongly recommend term life insurance.

And we're on baby step seven and I just want to know if it's necessary.

Yeah.

Let's run through the numbers real quick.

How old are you?

51.

Okay.

And what's your net worth?

300.

Okay.

And what, do you have any term life right now?

No.

And, and we don't have any debt.

Okay.

Yeah.

You definitely need term.

So the reason I was asking you those questions is because sometimes people are self-insured

in baby step seven.

And the way to kind of react to this is, okay, if you were to die today, would your family

be okay?

Yeah.

Eventually.

Well, they would still have to work, but well, what would they have?

Well, would they have upon your death, what would they have?

They would have 300.

Right.

And who's they?

How old?

Who are they?

Just just my wife.

Okay.

Is she working now?

Yes.

Okay.

And so the house is paid for us all the things.

So I mean, I personally would want more, you know, I mean, we have a, we have a basic

fundamental.

It's 10X.

Your income.

Right.

Uh-huh.

And so what's your income?

50,000.

So 500,000.

I mean, here's what I would do.

I call our friends at Xander insurance.

Yes.

You need term.

I think you need term.

100%.

Yes.

You do.

You don't have enough.

And, and so at a minimum, you're $500,000 policy so that your wife would get that upon

your death.

I think that's a minimum.

It's Xander'sander.com and get their recommendation, get, get a quote.

You won't believe how affordable it is, Mark.

And the return on this is low cost and big time piece.

John, give you final word on this.

Yeah.

Dude, you definitely, definitely needed.

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It's the most awful time of the year, folks.

It's taxis.

That's right.

Christmas is gone.

That's the most wonderful time of the year, John.

Good.

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Pretty simple stuff there.

If you have a simple situation that will help you, Donna is up next in St. Louis.

Donna, how can we help?

Hi, nice to talk to you both.

I have a question about retirement.

Okay.

So I think we're headed in the right direction or doing pretty well, but I was wondering

why recommend 15% to be saved off your gross income?

Aha.

Okay.

Tell us where you are in the moment.

What's your situation?

Sure.

Sure.

47 and my husband's 54.

He is completely disabled, so he won't be working from today into retirement.

And then I currently we have $748,000 in retirement, $75,000 in savings.

Our house is paid for no debt whatsoever.

Okay.

And then I'm kind of lazy.

I save 20% to cover his income from disability and mine together in my employee sponsored 401K.

Okay.

You think that's lazy?

It's lazy that I don't open up other accounts.

So I do it this, just put the money in, I don't ever see the money and have it taken

out each picture for both of us and mine.

I don't think that's lazy.

I think you're incredibly disciplined.

So what's at the root of this question?

I understood your question, but what's the question behind why do I need to save 15% when

you're already saving 20?

I'm very bad at spending money, so it's good to have bumpers in place so that I can plan

accordingly and know where to spend that and know when I retire that I'll have about

this much money and I can take out about this much.

I just want to learn the logic of those 15% so I have bumpers so to speak.

Well again, I appreciate that, but I'm not hearing somebody who loves to spend so much

in yourself aware and kind of beating yourself up a little bit, you've done a darn

good job.

Oh no, no, no, I don't like to spend.

I'm horrible at spending.

Oh, I misunderstood.

You won't spend any money.

I got money in my bank, then I would a new pair of shoes are in my heart.

I misunderstood.

All right, I'm going to bring in the good doctor over here who's been person his lips,

furrowing his brow.

What a year.

Awesome, Donna.

I do too.

Oh, thank you.

Well, why 15%?

I mean, so good answer.

15% is a number that will get most people to a comfortable retirement that does not

take away the ability to live and enjoy their life while they're having it.

Why they have it?

So if you retire, I mean, if you put away 7%, 10% every month, you're going to find yourself

not taking advantage of the full capacity of compound growth over time so that you're

in again, you are thinking about future you.

So when there comes a day and your care of your husband's going to go up, it's going

to become more difficult and more time consuming, you have put in a good amount of money that's

going to keep you all comfortable and safe there when you're no longer able to work.

And conversely, if you save 50% of your income every day, you're going to end up with a ton

of money and you're going to sit there at 70 on your front porch and realize, oh, my knees

don't work.

I can't go skiing now.

I can't do the things that I could have done when I was younger.

So 15% gives you a number that is, it's a stretch for some people.

For you, it sounds like it sounds like it's not enough for you.

I do 20 just to cover my husband's disability until it's a whole gross.

But I do pleasure from saving.

Are you saving out of a scarcity mindset?

Out of a compulsion, or you have a husband with unique needs right now.

And so you just see, you know what, this makes me feel safer today.

I have no problem not doing X, Y, or Z because I really want to make sure we're good on

the back end.

I would say some of both, I wouldn't call it a compulsion, because it says, but I definitely

know that he's a little older than me.

He does.

He is disabled.

It's going to cost a little bit.

I have children, so I want to make sure I have things in place that I can be taking

care of.

And I always say taking care of well, but they also, you know, they get to enjoy themselves

as well while they're taking care of me.

What is your income?

Sure.

Our gross income is 135,000.

How much of that is you?

He makes about 28,000.

Yeah.

So after all expenses paid and everything, how much margin do you have at the end of most

months?

I can live on a shoe strength.

I knew that.

I knew that.

No car payment.

But if we had to, we could live on his disability.

No, but you didn't answer my question.

You didn't answer my question.

How much margin?

I want a real number.

I'm not holding you to it.

I'm going somewhere with this.

On an average month, how much extra cash do you have at your disposal?

Yeah.

Because you know where I'm going?

Not what you can do.

That's right.

I've done backpacking hunts out in the middle of the woods and the wilderness for days.

I can do that.

How much cash?

How much cash do you have left over?

So I would say between $3,000 and $4,000, pending as my critters get in a scuffle or something.

Okay.

I get it.

The reason I'm asking is John said something that made me ask that question.

And I think whether you keep it to 20%, not going to argue about that, or you drop it

to 15, John just said something I think is really smart.

You need to take some of that, let's call it 3,000.

And do something fun.

Just live.

You're an incredible wife.

I know it is.

Why?

Because you don't think you're worth it.

Is that what it is?

I'm sorry.

What did you say?

You don't think you're worth it.

I never think things are worth the cost.

If that makes sense.

I'm like, I could stay at home.

It doesn't make a difference.

We are getting a new bathroom.

Sorry.

I am.

Oh, come on.

That's where you go number one.

Number two.

Women like a bathroom.

What is fun?

I like walking my dog and hanging outside.

Bad answer.

Come on.

Bad answer.

No, no, no.

Let me ask it this way.

Sure.

What is something you have thought about doing recently and you went to your default answer

you just shared with all of us, which is I don't think it's worth spending money on

that.

Give me a real answer.

I don't earn myself.

I don't.

But my husband.

He always wants to get a new this or a new animal.

Yeah.

We don't need it.

All right.

Here's your homework.

John's reading your mail.

I think she's copying out by saying I don't think it's worth it.

I think you're on to something.

Dig a little bit.

Yeah.

I know he is.

You have so does the audience, by the way, they're shaking their head a lot.

Listen to Donna.

I can only I can talk to you for an hour and we don't have that kind of time.

I want you to I want you to tattoo what I'm about to tell you right in the middle of

your soul.

Okay.

You're worth you're worth laughter.

You worth having fun.

You have a very hard life.

You're taking care of somebody as a primary caregiver and you're working a job where you

make six figures.

That is not a punishment that you quote unquote deserve.

That is a role you have nobly and honorably stepped into and we celebrate you and your

worth laughter, your worth joy, your worth having fun, even if you roll your eyes and think

that wasn't worth that money.

And so your homework assignment is where's a place you want to go visit?

Where is a place that you want to take two of your girlfriends or your sister or your

husband or what and that we want to go and it's going to be obnoxious and it's going

to be expensive and we are going to have a story to tell on our front porch one day when

we're rocking in our rocking chairs.

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, I have one in mind, but I say I'm not.

What is it?

What is it?

What is it?

Say it.

Rip it.

Rip it.

What is it?

I'm not dying until I see CG.

$1,000 in margin every month and you're in great financial shape.

How old are you?

Save up like John said.

What's a cost of a trip to Fiji?

Run the numbers on it and save up a little bit but book the trip as soon as you get it.

But I think you need to crawl before you walk.

Donna, when was the last time you did an entire spa day at a really high in spa?

I don't do things for a spa.

You book it today.

You book it.

You book it today.

It's going to change your life by the way.

Don't go to Fiji when you're seven and you can't go snorkeling and you can't run

a night on the beach.

Go in your 40, freaking seven.

You can afford it and you've worked hard.

Owning a business can be a heavy load.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds credit union studio.

The phone number to jump in today is AAA825-5225.

Tori is up next in Dallas, Texas.

Tori, how can we help?

Hey there.

So arms is calling for some advice.

So me and my husband bought a house in early 2024.

We were both working.

Everything was going great.

And then come 2025, we both lost our jobs within about three months of each other.

We honestly had no savings.

We didn't realize how much cost goes into buying a house and all the things we would need

to purchase for our house.

So we completely ran through all of our savings doing that.

When we lost both of our jobs, we had the house payment.

We have bills and then we also had purchased jet skis a few months before this happened.

So we had that monthly payment along with the car insurance and his truck note.

So we ended up essentially living off of our credit cards.

The mortgage company, I tried to get our mortgage lowered.

I was getting unemployment at the time.

He was not eligible for unemployment.

It helped a little bit, but we did fall behind on the mortgage.

I asked them for a lower mortgage.

They made us enter a four barons before they lowered everything.

So we did that.

And now I'm working again.

He is currently not working just because we do have a one and a half year old.

So we would have to put her in daycare, which would basically be my entire paycheck.

And he is planning to leave for the military.

We just don't know when.

So right now we sold his truck to get rid of that in the insurance payment.

But even with doing that, we're still not making ends meet.

The credit cards are getting way past due.

And we also have to pay back what was past due on the house.

So I don't even know where to start with everything or how to catch up.

Well, first things first.

We got to fix the income situation.

And I'm hearing really good logical excuses.

But they're excuses.

OK, we got a one and a half year old, so my husband can't work.

Daycare is too expensive.

I get it.

And by the way, that's all real.

I'm not minimizing it.

But I'm hearing logical reasons as to why we aren't working like crazy because we have

an income problem.

So let's just get specific about that first.

And then we'll dive into how do we climb out of this?

As you replace your income, or are you making less?

Are you making more?

What is your income situation today versus where it was before you lost the job?

So I'm making the same amount that I was making before.

Which is how much?

I bring in probably about 2,500 a month.

Doing what?

So I actually work, I do billing.

For just a small business or big corporation?

Yes.

For a small business medical.

OK.

And what did your husband do and what was he making?

So he was a manager for logistics, and he was making more than me probably about 3,000.

OK.

So neither one of you were in high-paying jobs, and yet we were buying toys.

I just want to call that out.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

Yes.

OK.

And when, what, give us more on this military thing, that was just as fuzzy as it could

be.

Do we know?

So he's enlisted in the military.

We do have to wait, you know, to find out when he goes to basic.

It's sort of a waiting game with him.

Do we have a range?

Really?

I'm sorry.

What was up?

Do we have a range?

In other words, what branch is he in?

So he's going into the army.

Going into the army.

And so the army hasn't told him it might be three months, it might be six months.

Is it just open-ended?

We have no idea.

Sit by the phone.

Yeah, as of right now, it's basically sit and wait.

OK.

And we have no one that can watch your child that is not a professional daycare situation.

No.

She actually used to stay with a family member who decided to go back to work.

OK.

And could he work in the hours when you're at home?

Yes.

So he has been doing part-time delivery.

No, no, no.

No, the maximum amount of money.

If he can make $20 an hour scooping something in a warehouse somewhere, that's what he does

until the army calls him.

Three jobs.

Three jobs.

If he's watching the baby during the day, then you don't see him at night.

He doesn't sleep.

He works on the weekends.

I mean, this is the kind of level of intensity I want you to understand.

You need.

OK.

You need income.

OK.

And can I tell you something?

You need to be figuring out in the days ahead.

I love that you got back to where you were.

But you aren't making enough either.

Yes.

Me.

OK.

John, you want to walk through the debt situation?

How they get out of it?

I mean, y'all are in a position now where you'll have to choose reality.

Reality is y'all are broke.

And this is a scary, scary place to find yourself, especially with the one and a half year

old, especially with a husband who's about to be gone for who knows how long and who knows

where.

And if you're not honest, if you don't choose reality about how this is emotionally

taxing you, how you'll have no peace, you'll have no freedom in your home, you're not

going to have the emotional to use, kids were juice, you're not going to have the emotional

energy to go do.

It has to be done in this moment.

And what has to be done right now is both of y'all have to work maniacally to climb out

of this thing.

Sell everything you have.

Sell the jetskis.

And if you're upside down on the jetskis, which you probably are, because those are insane

depreciating assets.

And save up the gap and sell them and go pay those stupid things off.

So I actually did let them, I did let them take the jet skis and they went to auction and

they hold them probably about $10,000, $11,000.

Good gosh.

That's why we don't let things go to auction.

Are you guys on a budget at all?

So I know my paycheck, no, the answer is no, you're just tell me.

What's your total debt load?

If you had to write a check today and would clear you and your husband back to zero, what

would that number be?

Probably about $15,000, including what is, what was in the forebearance of that's the

best news I've heard on this phone call such a manageable problem.

If you go crazy working and selling everything and you got to get on a budget, now we're

going to give you every dollar, okay, so in a minute I'm going to put you on hold and

we're going to get you in every dollar free, our gift.

You have got to start knowing where every dollar is going because right now to John's

point, you're broke.

You have no wiggle room at all, but you guys have got to go make some money and 15 grand

is a very overcomable problem, I agree.

Okay.

I am getting a good amount back on my income taxes.

How much?

A little over $10,000.

Okay, great.

So $1,000 goes e-me, baby step one, are you familiar with the baby steps?

Yes.

Okay, baby step one, $1,000 done.

Then we take $9,000 and put it, every penny, that's right.

And now we're down to $6,000 of debt, which he should be able to clear with three jobs

in 30 freaking days.

Now with a budget, you just got to raise, you take all that debt and one of my paying

minimum per month, we just got that in a race because we are budgeting now.

And I want you to tell him with all the compassion in your heart that Ken and I called out his

fatherhood and his husbandry.

He needs to get off his butt and go take care of his freaking family today for the record

since he's going into the army.

It was just John that said that.

Just John, I'm just over here.

He needs to try and get after he's to serve your family as much as he's about to go serve

this country.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens.

One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curve

ball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time, a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and

suddenly everything changes.

Yeah.

And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential

because it protects your family if the worst happens.

Yeah, that's right.

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But there's another piece that people often overlook and that's long term disability insurance.

Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them.

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All right, let's go to Des Moines, Iowa, Becca is joining us there, Becca, how can we

help?

So, my daughter is going on a trip in June for my cousin's daughter's make-a-wish trip.

And we were thinking it would be nice to go as a family.

With myself, my boyfriend, and my two-year-old, and just do it all together.

And it would be roughly 5,000 at the max for us three to go since my daughter is already

paid for.

Okay.

So, I was just wondering if it would be worth it to go or not.

Well, tell us the reason that you're asking us.

There's another part of the story.

Are you questioning whether or not this is a no-brainer?

Well, I stay home, so I don't have a steady income.

We are going to use the money that we got back from our taxes to do it.

So, we don't always just have that money, but we're working on it.

Do you have debt?

The only debt we have is my car.

How much?

Ten.

How much are you getting back from taxes?

He's getting 4,000, and I'm getting 4,000, so 8,000 all together.

And then tell me about your daughter.

She's nine.

She...

We've never been on vacation, none of us.

So, this would be...

She's going to go regardless if we go, but I just thought it would be nice to go as a

family.

So, who's make a wish trip, is it?

It's my cousin's daughter.

She's had cancer and is in recovery, so they're doing that.

Okay.

No, you shouldn't go.

Okay.

I'm watching.

The reason I let the awkward silence is because there's a lady on the lobby who's looking

at me like, I have no heart.

Like, there's a lump of coal in my chest, and I appreciate that.

And I understand, I think I know where her emotion's coming from, and I think I know

where John's emotion's coming from, and I understand the make a wish thing is that's

a really big deal.

Maybe I should ask what the severity of the situation is, but I just have a feel from

you, the way you're wording all of this, that this isn't as big as maybe it sounds.

And so, in that case, you guys, I hate that you've never gone on a vacation, you know,

but you guys don't have a lot of income.

You're not working.

Yeah.

So that reason, that tax refund is going to go a long way to getting out of that car

payment.

What's your car payment every month?

It's 150 every two weeks.

Yeah.

So 300 a month.

Okay.

So what would 300 a month mean to your every month income?

I do, I do photography on the side, but it's not.

I know what I asked you, what would a $300 a month insertion into your monthly budget

mean to you guys?

Not much, I don't think.

Maybe that should be your water bill and part of your light bill, right?

Yeah.

That's not the answer I was expecting from someone who told me that, you know, what

is your husband's income?

He makes 58 here.

That's not a lot of money, and you're not making any money.

So for that reason, I'm taking a hard line.

I love that your daughter gets to go with her cousin, but do you need to go with the

two-year-old to the two-and-a-five thousand given you guys are broke?

And if the audience doesn't like it, I just don't think it's a good move.

John, disagree with me.

I have no problem either.

No, this isn't sitting right in your spirit.

I want to hear why it's not.

Yeah.

I just, I'm always worried about money, always, whether we have it or we don't.

Well, because you don't have, yeah, your worry, your worry is justified.

Yeah.

And so whenever I'm worried or whenever I'm anxious about something, I want to first

ask, is my body right?

And in this case, you and your, is it your boyfriend, you said?

Yeah.

And how many kids do you have?

I have two.

We have one together.

Okay.

How old are they?

My daughter's nine and my son is two.

Okay.

Can I be real, real direct with you since we have short time?

Yeah.

You as the live-in girlfriend are in a very precarious position right now, especially with

no income.

And you feel that, right?

Yeah.

Okay.

Your body's right.

And so if you told me I have a super stable situation, I have earning potential, I'm married

in a long term marriage and we are anchored in.

And this niece that, I've got cousins that I know really well, I've got cousins that

I don't know at all.

This niece is like a daughter to me.

Then in that situation, I would say, did go.

Just go.

Yeah.

I'm not getting that sense.

I'm getting a sense of, I am in a very fragile position as the girlfriend of the chief

breadwinner.

I don't have a lot, I don't have equal power at the table in my romantic relationship.

I'm taking care of these kids.

Our money situation is very, very fragile and I'm just sick and tired of it.

And I'm going to express my sick and tired by not going to get a job, not demanding that

we need to get married and we need to make this thing official so that we can both anchor

in this together.

I'm going to take that out by taking the trip I just deserve.

Yeah.

And you're going to come back from a $5,000 trip exhausted.

Your kids are going to be cooked.

They're going to have fun because it's freaking Disney.

But you're going to come back and you're going to have taken $8,000 of those dollars and

you know as well as I do that spending his tax return is going to come at a cost.

You know that.

And you're going to come back having spent, go ahead, go ahead.

I think our relationship is pretty good.

We don't like consider oh, this is my money and this is your money.

All of our money is together.

Oh, you don't have any number one.

And number two, you guys aren't married again, it's a fragile position.

Let me put it this way.

If he decides he doesn't want to be your boyfriend anymore today, what happens?

I don't know.

Okay.

Exactly.

There we go.

So I am heartbroken with you and I'm siding with Ken on this one because I feel like

you're about to go spend five grand.

You don't have because you're just sick and tired of being stuck in a position that

you have a lot of autonomy to actually change.

But that change is going to disrupt the right, like the rhythm of your relationships.

It's going to disrupt the rhythm in your home.

It's going to disrupt a lot of stuff.

But on the other side of that disruption is potentially a whole lot of peace.

And I want to dovetail off of that Becca.

Here's what I would prescribe for you is that you let the sadness and some anger over

not being able to do this trip fuel you.

And why don't you guys get married and let's commit and let's pay this debt off really

fast because you can.

And let's get $300 extra a month going.

And let's keep walking the baby steps out and get her an emergency fund.

And let's be patient and wait five years and take both kids to dizzy because I'm going

to tell you something right now.

The little one is how old you too.

Can I tell you something?

Take it a two year old to Disney is like hanging out on the seventh level of hell.

It's like setting money on fire.

By the way, everybody in the lobby agrees with me.

You're going to think you're doing something great and you're going to go, I wish I had

paid the car off and saved myself the stress of dragging a two year old around the happiest

place on earth.

The irony of that is just rich.

So you know, this is a little bit of let me say no to something that would be good.

So I can say yes to the best scenario for my life going forward.

And you are really close to being debt free.

Let's get boyfriend into a husband.

Let's get husband a better job.

And then we go to Disney and we don't feel it.

And that way when you're miserable, you just spend a little bit more money on ice cream

and then it all regulates.

I know that's not the answer you wanted back of, but that's just your brother's kid and

John, be an honest with you today.

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Mark is up in Columbus, Ohio now, Mark.

How can we help?

I think any John, thanks for taking my call up and 100 to talk to you guys.

You too.

I was laid off of my job after nearly 30 years of the same company not too long ago where

I was making about 190K.

Now my wife and I have kind of a different point of view of whether I can get another job

being whatever I want.

I just don't care what it makes or whether I need to make more money because the real

is I'm only 53 and I know to catch our retirement stuff for another six and a half years.

And so we need to figure out what the next steps for us are.

Our net worth is 3.5 million and we have about 699K and non-retirement accounts and my

wife is convinced that I don't need to work and make a bunch of money and I'm kind of

the one that worries about this stuff and so I need to figure out if I can do something

for fun, no matter what it makes or whether I need to go find another job making about 190

K or so for the next six years.

Okay, a couple of quick questions.

What were you doing?

I was working at a big tech company, education tech company, I was doing a user that they

designed, user experience design.

Okay, how would you describe yourself as a professional?

User experience designer.

Okay.

UX.

Okay.

Okay, so next I want to know because you're the guy that's in the weeds on the money, you're

the guy that's worried, your wife seems to feel really good about it.

How much money?

You get what we're doing.

How much money if I could just hand it to you, I said, all right, Mark, you're going to

make this for as many years as you feel comfortable.

How much money would be enough and I'm talking gross salary?

Well, we have different views in the left hand, but I don't know what your view is.

I feel like at this point, if I could make 50K a year just enough to cover some of the

expenses that it would be okay.

Okay.

Is she very in tune with what you guys have?

You guys do the numbers together.

She's not just saying this from some emotional point of view.

Yeah, she's very in tune.

Well, is she right or is she wrong?

Well, history will tell you that she's generally right on these kind of things.

Well, no, wait a second.

Is that, is that husband code?

Because that's what we're all supposed to say or is that a fact?

She really does have a good grasp of the numbers.

No, she really does have a good grasp of the numbers.

All right, I'm going to actually bring in my colleague here because after my quick little

line of questioning and your validation of your wife's A knowledge of your financial

situation and B, she's got a good track record of giving good financial advice.

John, I think this is a lot of fear.

Yeah.

Okay.

So give me something you are anxious about that has nothing to do with money.

Oh, my little future.

Okay.

Keep going.

Give me two more.

Um, I'm a health long term.

I'm in good health right now, but I just see too many people get down here.

Give me another thing.

And I think I said not there's just running out of money.

It's not having enough.

Okay.

So this is the pot recognizing the kettle here.

Okay.

So I'm talking to you.

Forget the like, there's millions of people listening to us just it's you and me sitting

down having nachos.

Okay.

Okay.

Almost every time somebody approaches me with a desperate either or decision that is

assigned.

They struggle with anxiety and other places in their life.

You have boxed yourself into a do something for fun where I just don't make anything and

we all starved the death because the apocalypse is going to come hit us at any time.

Never mind the fact that I'm a multi multi millionaire that my health is good that my wife

loves me enough to stay connected to me and to challenge me when appropriate.

I am going to forecast a future potential problem.

I'm going to drag it into the present and not even try to solve it.

I'm going to worry about it, right?

Or the other solution you've given yourself is I need to go find something that I don't

love.

I don't care about.

That's going to drive me crazy, but I'm going to make a 190 grand.

And you've boxed yourself into an either or and you spend most of your day toggling

back and forth.

That toggling, the nerd word is rumination.

You're just spinning up stories and trying to solve them and tell yourself why you can

or can't, why you should and why you shouldn't.

And rumination never solves anything.

It just makes us feel like we're exerting energy to solve a towards a problem.

It keeps us busy, but we never go anywhere.

And so what I want you to challenge you on is this, hey, I'm going to send you a copy

of building a non anxious life, okay?

And this is the assumption that what if your anxiety's right?

What if the things you worry about is right?

And let me make, like, be super clear.

All of the money could go away.

It could.

You have set your family up in a position that you are hedged against that happening better

than almost anybody can and I will talk to you in the next two months.

You're a multi-millionaire in your early fifties.

Your health is really dang good.

You take care of yourself.

You're a good steward of your body.

Would you have a heart attack tomorrow?

Yep.

But you've done the work to put yourself in a position where that's statistically unlikely.

And I can keep going on and on.

But I'm going to give you that book because I want you to work through it.

The second thing I want you to do is I want you to reverse engineer.

The day you quote unquote, retire.

What do you want that data to feel like?

I just wanted to be confident in relief, relaxing.

Okay.

I'm not going to be found in a data point because you have data points and they're not solving

that problem for you.

That's right.

It's going to be solved in a life built well on the way and it's going to be built with

you going towards something.

Why would why why not consider doing something that you love and it makes 80 grand 110 grand?

How many months have you been laid off?

Well, just over five.

Okay.

I'm getting paid through June basically.

That's what I was wondering.

So I'm going to throw something out.

I actually want John's opinion on this.

I was you're not talking about this before.

Yeah.

I would love for you to try your wife's plan for three months.

So when June, when that last severance check caches, whatever that next month is, so you

don't have any income.

So maybe it's July.

Who knows?

But I want you to go three months without any income three months.

I know.

And John may disagree with you, but let me play this out.

Your wife is tuned in.

Go 60 days.

I don't care.

It's not a magical formula.

I'm dropping here.

But go enough time where you're where you're able to actually see what life is like with

your wife's suggestion and do everything that John said.

But force yourself to go, I'm going to take at least three months or two months, and

I'm not going to have any income.

And let's just see how we do.

And I'm going to add another thing to it.

I want you to spend those two months, because here's the other thing I think you're missing.

Ken and I've talked about this at length over the over the years.

Getting laid off your body experiences that as a death.

That's right.

The loss, the grief attached to that loss is significant.

Because somebody somewhere in a room said, I don't want you or need you here anymore.

And that hurts, man, right?

And it's existential.

Who am I without this title?

Who am I when I'm not this job when I'm not in this role?

Who am I going to be now?

And is this going to, could this happen again?

The answer is yes.

And you start spinning up stories and you get stuck.

So in addition to pressure testing is my wife right.

So I want you to begin to fill your day up with things that bring you purpose.

Who are you going to help?

So that's you not just sitting at home, scanning the internet, watching news or scrolling on

your phone.

That is you committing to.

I'm going to volunteer for three different organizations in my community.

I'm going to take a class to get this other certification.

You know what?

I hate coding.

I hate it.

I'm going to say it out loud.

I hate coding.

I'm going to go fill in the blank and begin finding doing, not thinking about doing

things, action or emotions, often follow action.

Go do some things that bring you value and bring you purpose.

And man, you're going to come out of this on the other side with a clear path to move

forward.

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All right.

Today's question comes from Chase in Indiana.

Oh, man, this starts out.

He doesn't mess around.

I don't want to do it, but I'm about to divorce my wife due to financial infidelity.

We have amazing kids, and she is my rock, but she has a major spending problem.

This is the second time she has gone into debt and kept me in the dark until the creditors

come calling.

I'm devastated and want to take the easy way out.

But even if we get separated, she would still need financial help.

I am 45, and she is 48.

Can you give me some guidance on how to help her re-engineer her mind about money and

finance so she can be the amazing wife I know she can be.

Oh, boy.

Except it's not about her mind.

Yeah.

Man.

What do you think, Ken?

Well, this is your lane.

Yeah.

Yeah, but you got a lot of them.

You got a lane one on TV at the moment.

You got a lot of wisdom.

I'm going to say, with everything in my being, fight the urge to divorce her.

I would just fight until there is absolutely no way you can fight.

I don't think divorce is the answer.

I think she's got some deep emotional problems, and I think she needs some therapy.

She needs her husband to sit with her and all of that.

I would tell him financial infidelity.

I get it, but with the kids, I've read too much about divorce.

I know enough to get me in trouble, and I know enough to say that it's just never an

option until it's the only option.

And Chase, I mean, this is rocked your world and totally understand you're looking at

two husbands right here.

It happened a second time, I mean, it's devastating, right?

But I want you to begin to be very honest.

She is not your rock.

And when you keep saying she's this and she's this, but also this, it becomes destabilizing

in your own mind.

So I want you to be honest about, I don't trust my wife, and my wife has not shown that

she is willing to delay gratification, to deal with some of the demons that are haunting

her that she's choosing to try to keep it bay with spending or with hiding or with secrets

or whatever.

And so we're going to be very honest about our place in this marriage.

We're going to choose reality when it comes to our marriage.

What is the state of things?

The state of things is if we're really, really honest, never is somebody, quote unquote,

a rock in every facet, except they just go into crippling debt creditors called and

they hide it from us and they lie about it.

That's almost never the case, very, very rarely, occasionally it is, but almost never it

is.

So we're going to be honest about the state of things.

And you're going to sit down with her and you're going to give her a road map to what

re-establishing trust would look like.

And you're going to be honest about your, the precariousness of your situation.

And so for a season, I would, and can push back on this, I would say I am going to open

a checking account that is just for us and the kids.

I am going to ask you to freeze your credit account and give me the code to it so that you

cannot borrow money.

I am going to ask that because this is the only way I'm going to feel safe for the next

30, 60, 90 days and then we're going to revisit it.

And I'm going to ask that you go see somebody because you clearly are struggling with things

way under the surface.

And like this isn't about re-engineering her mind about money and finance.

That is just the, that's the blinking red light over the problem.

The problem is much deeper.

And we're going to get to the root of where else is she not being fully honest with you?

Where else is she not allowing herself to be seen in the world?

Are you not a safe place for her to land?

And so she feels like she has to kind of work around you because you have your own opinions

and your own judgments, et cetera.

We're going to peel this thing all the way back to the bedrock here and we're going to

be honest about the state of our marriage.

And then we're going to choose and both of you have to be in on this.

We're going to rebuild this thing brick by brick to this thing that we want it to be.

And the beauty of it is if you all have both chosen or one of you all has chosen to

blow the thing up, you both can choose to rebuild it.

It's the same choice just on the different side of the ledger here.

But this is, if you try to solve this with financial, with numbers, with spending habits,

that's not the issue here yet.

You'll get there, but that's not the problem here.

It's much deeper than that.

Yeah.

Appreciate the question, man.

We're rooting for you.

Let's go now back to the phones.

Andrews, joining us in Jackson, Mississippi, Andrew, how can we help?

Hey, how's it going, gentlemen?

Basically, got some cardiac, got some student loan debt, not really unexpected baby on the

way, but we just got pregnant a lot sooner than I expected.

And just curious if I sell a truck that I have, get a beater and start pouring it into

the student loan debt or just pay off the truck because it's newer.

Windsor baby, dude, baby is due.

So we're 12 weeks, baby's due around end of September.

Okay.

End of September, how much debt do you have, walk us through the debt?

50 grand in car loan, 100 grand in student loan, and then we have our house.

Okay.

So we'll take the house off the table right now.

Are you familiar with our baby steps?

Somewhat.

Okay.

So the 50 grand in the car, what's the car, what is it?

It's a truck and what's it worth?

If you were to private sell today?

Probably 60.

Yes.

Yes.

We sell that truck immediately.

We sell it yesterday.

Immediately.

Even if I can pay it off in two more months.

Yeah.

What do you make?

Two more months.

Whoa.

You buried the lead.

What do you make?

So we pull in about 220 after taxes.

Okay.

Well, that would have been nice to know.

Yeah.

Lead with that next time.

Hey, we're rich and we're having a baby and I'm terrified.

Yeah.

Lead with that next time.

Yeah.

Pay off the truck in two months.

Yeah.

Okay.

And then that leaves the 100K in student loans.

Is that right?

That's right.

Yeah.

That one's going to take longer.

And so, you know, we tell people it's okay to pause baby step two, which is paying off

debt, small as the largest, to save up money.

You know, we're going to get in stock cash mode, right?

We stock cash just to make sure and then, by the way, what we're doing here is we want

to look at what our deductible is, right?

And we want to make sure we got plenty of cash that we don't have any surprises, and

then we plan as well as we can for baby, right?

And then once baby's here, then it's that massive income knocking off the student loan.

All right.

So that's a baby step two.

The income reduces after baby because my wife is, you know, she'll get her her little

bit for baby leave.

And she says she'll start working again after ex a lot of months.

The way you just said that is suggest you will not.

Yeah, you don't believe her.

No.

She's going to stay home with baby and she's going to be like, yeah, I'm good.

How much do you owe on your house?

250.

Okay.

So, what, if she leaves the workforce for good, what's that going to reduce your household

income?

It's going to go down to about one eighty five.

Yeah.

But what needs to happen for you to make more money?

I'm actually working on getting a raise.

So that's what would that take you to?

It could take us back up to what we're talking about.

All right.

So the answer is you don't have to sell the truck, but what worries me is that you get

off this call and then you talk yourself into keep in the truck.

The part of me wants to go sell it, take your medicine, you know, and buy a $10,000 truck,

you know.

I want to sell it, but the wife is like, it's a good truck.

It's newer.

It's got a great warranty.

She's the one trying to keep it.

What do you think?

I'm out, John.

I'm like, I don't care.

I mean, here's the, she's right and you're right, okay?

So the bigger issue to me is, you all make two twenty after taxes, you all have nine

months.

Yes.

Could you, your house payments only two, a $250,000 house?

Yeah.

Okay.

Maybe.

Yeah.

Maybe I'll live in it for about a year now.

This is going to sound crazy.

This is going to sound nuts.

Is there any possible way you all could squeeze out and just live on a hundred grand this

year since you have no other expenses?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Of course you could.

You can live off 75.

Yeah.

If you all will just suck it up for one calendar year, you will pay off your student loans

and the dumb truck.

And that reason I'd sell the truck.

Yeah, I would too.

I'd buy a $10,000 truck and you're going to save all this cash that you would be putting

towards the fifty thousand.

I want us to hold that cash and put it to the loan by the, yeah, a pair of student loans

often.

Yeah.

Tell your wife, hey babe, appreciate it.

Love you.

But I don't need to drive this truck.

That's what I would do.

And then save up and buy a truck after the baby's born.

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio.

Alongside John Deloney, I'm Ken Coleman, thrilled that you're with us.

The phone number is AAA 8255225.

Kate is up now in Oklahoma City.

Kate, how can we help?

Hi guys, I would just like to know how I should go about a conversation with my dad asking

him to get another job because he's been asking me and my brother for money for like bills

and groceries.

What?

How long has this been going on?

Years.

I mean.

How old is he?

He is 62.

Okay.

And is he on his own?

No.

My mom is so around.

She was a caretaker from my grandma, but she recently passed away, so she is unemployed

right now.

Okay.

And how much money are we talking about in how many years?

Well, let me ask, I'm sorry, let me ask it differently.

On the average ask, how much money is he asking you and your brother for at a time?

It really varies anywhere from like 20 bucks to a couple of thousand.

Okay.

I just am trying to get a range for, you know, how big of a problem he's got going on.

And you said years?

How many years?

Yeah.

So we had a family business for a long time and we would work.

I've been working since I was like nine, so kind of since then, so 10 years.

He's been asking you and your brother for money for 10 years to help pay his bills.

Yeah.

And you've been giving it to him the entire time.

Yes.

All right.

All right.

I got to bring in the good doctor here.

I mean, I sent the table and now you get to clean it.

Wow.

We got some deep seated issues going on here, John.

Yeah.

You asked for two things and you can only control one of them, okay?

And so the only thing you can control here is, is no thank you.

All right.

Or thanks for asking.

I'm not in a position to give right now, or if you want to be, if you're ready to draw

forever boundary, I'm not going to be able to give you, or I'm going to choose not to

give you money anymore.

And the more honest you can be there, the better.

Do you still work in the family business with him?

No, we had to sell it.

He's in quite a bit of debt.

So we had to.

Okay.

You can't recommend he get a new job because he doesn't think he needs one because he

doesn't.

He has two kids that he's been leaching off of for years.

He's going to have to come to that on his own.

And yeah, I just want to tell you, I'm as a dad of a daughter sitting next to another

dad of another daughter, I want to tell you, I'm sorry, because no dad should put his

daughter in this position.

Yeah.

Thank you.

You've been carrying him for a long time, and that was never your job.

What's going to happen when you do what John tells you to do?

How's dad going to react?

I could tell he's going to react like a child, right?

Yeah, I don't know exactly.

He definitely asked more from my brother, but, um, is your brother fed up with this too?

He's definitely more lenient on it.

He's kind of like, well, mom and daddy money, so I'm going to get it.

You see, John, that's another dynamic because we're giving Kate this advice.

Kate's calling us.

But if brother's going to continue to help, this is never going to get any better.

So even more so, Kate, do you do it, John, tell me?

And you're going to be isolated, even more.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And the reason I'm bringing that up with John next to me is because I think you need

to be prepared for a dad.

You said you don't know what he's going to do.

He's not going to react in a good way, and now he's going to put more pressure on your

brother, and brother may come to you and go, what are you doing?

I guess, John, I wanted to be prepared for the worst case scenario so that we protect

Kate.

I mean, I think Kate's going to have to make some choices about, do you have community?

Do you have people you can count on to someone you can talk to because this is going to be

an isolating, rocky storm to, to weather?

Right.

I'm actually, um, moving out, um, in April.

Good.

And the faster you can establish yourself on your own two feet, um, somewhere else where

you've got some more autonomy, then this will definitely reduce.

Okay.

But it will be incredibly uncomfortable, disheartening, heartbreaking.

And so I'll say it this way, if it takes you, um, giving him money to preserve the relationship,

the relationship you want to be there does not exist.

Yeah.

It's a, it's a predatory relationship.

You owe me.

I'm your dad.

I think I keep giving them money because I, and just feel bad, they don't have money

for bills and I don't want them to.

That's right.

You know?

Okay.

Um, I want to walk you through something that I learned from my, my buddy, Becky Kennedy.

She's a psychologist in New York.

Okay.

Um, I would have told you in the past, like you're feeling guilty, right?

And she, she changed the way I think about guilt.

She said, guilt is a good feeling that your body experiences when you violate your own

values, right?

Um, guilt is not the feeling you get when you do something that is in alignment with

your values and somebody else is uncomfortable or mad or pissed off at what you just did and

you try to grab their feelings and manage them for them.

And so is it a violation of your values to take care of yourself, to make sure you're

on your own two feet and to stop funding your dad's behavior?

Yeah.

I definitely need to.

I'm, I'm definitely ready to move out.

Okay.

When he comes at you full storm, when your brother comes at you full storm, make a commitment

to yourself.

By the way, you, you don't just declare this like Michael Scott, like, I declare bankrupt.

This is hard and it's painful and it takes years, okay?

But make the commitment to yourself.

I am not going to try to manage y'all's anger, your frustration, your demands, your

coercion.

I'm not going to try to manage that.

I'm going to be in control of me and I'm going to be compassionate, respectful, honorable.

I'm going to always tell the truth.

I'm going to be a person of integrity and I'm going to do what I can do.

And at this season, I don't have that kind of money to continue to support you in that

way.

Okay.

Okay.

And that's hard and that's, like, kids, right, man, that is painful, painful.

Where's mom at in this, so where is she?

So, um, my mom, so I'm actually moving in the job I have now, um, she's going to take

it over, but it's not going to be for a month.

Okay.

What, what, what is she going to make?

Um, 20, after taxes, it's going to be about 600 a week.

Okay.

And is, is mom, where's mom at with the way dad is putting the pressure on you and your

brother?

Is mom just this silent, who just lets him do whatever?

I mean, what's the deal?

She, um, she definitely feels really bad about it.

She, um, she cries to me a lot about it and because she's in a really tough position

of buying it.

I know she is.

And because we have such limited time, I'm, I'm digging here, John.

What can she do to encourage mom to try to step in here?

I, I, I, again, I don't know that she can get mom to do anything.

I agree.

She can say, Hey, mom, I just want to let you know, um, as I'm moving out here, I need

to establish my finances, my emergency fund, I need to pay off my debts that I have and

I need to establish myself.

And so I am not going to continue to give you all money for the next season.

And I know that's going to make dad mad.

You and I have talked and I know this whole thing has always made you uncomfortable anyway.

I just want you to know I'm going to have this conversation with dad when he calls.

And maybe your mom will say, bless you for having the strength that I wasn't able to

exert over the years because I've been in this other pressure cooker or maybe she'll

get mad at you too.

Who knows?

But I would have that level of candor and that level of directness and make it as short

as possible.

When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, dang, that must have

been so hard.

I can never do that.

And I tell them sure you can.

It's a short term sacrifice for a long term gain.

But do you know what's really hard working your whole life and never having anything to

show for it?

Never having the long term gain, just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time.

And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose.

Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom.

But you need the right tools to do it, like our every dollar budget app.

In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

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All right, so we get a lot of questions, a lot of calls where we're inevitably saying

you need more income, right?

Yes, every dollar and getting control of your money, knowing where it's going is huge.

But most of the time, if you're struggling, it's not just your expenses, it is also your

income.

And the reality is that we've had a very popular article, it's called 14 Best Work

From Home Jobs You Can Apply For Today.

And this is all about increasing your income, right?

I need more.

I'm in gazelle intensity and I got to bring some more money in.

And again, I'm not going to read this word for word.

You can click the link in the show notes to get this.

But you're looking at things like virtual assistant is on the list, right?

A tutor, customer service, where again, I'm working at home, which means you can wear

those sweats, you know, hey, and you got a laptop, whatever, graphic design, accounting,

booktieber, teaching, video editing, things of that nature.

That's just a few of the list.

And again, go to the show notes and get it.

This is a very popular article at ramsysolutions.com, 14 Best Work From Home Jobs You Can Apply

For Today.

So, the point is is that where there's a will, there's a way, and we're actually giving

you a list of some very specific things to be looking at that don't require a lot of ramp

up time, but can provide real money.

So that you can get out of debt.

So go check it out link in the show notes.

Josh is up next and Jackson, Mississippi, Josh, how can we help?

Hey, man, I was just wondering, I'm getting married in a month and I'm just thanking you.

Super excited about it, really excited to not have to pay for this wedding anymore.

And just basically me and my fiancee, we have what you all would call bad debt, about

$12,000 in credit cards.

Most of that went towards paying for the wedding and then we mostly cash flowed it.

I don't have a card out, my fiancee has, I think, $20,000 left on her car and completed

a baby step one so far.

We're just trying to figure out how to navigate the marriage finances and just overall building

something with that.

And then my fiancee wants to move, we want to move to Alabama and she wants to open a

nutrition team business.

A nutrition what?

A key like a fit, okay, yeah, okay, I think it's a horrible idea.

And let me explain, not necessarily the business prospect.

So I'm have a little bit of fun, I want to do a little misdirection.

It's not that the her business idea, I don't know anything about fitness T, okay, what

I am saying is a bad idea is for us to get married and we're going to start a business

when we're trying to start a life.

I got some red flags.

Now if you can give me some facts as to why it might be a great idea.

I think it's not a good idea for other reasons but go ahead.

Oh great, no, I had a real quick walk.

Hold on, I want to get John's take.

Why is it, give me your take on why it's about it?

Here's why, brother, you are painting a picture of two people in a month who are about

to join, like to about to anchor into, into concrete together and say, till death does

us part and y'all are not aligned on how y'all spend money, how y'all earn money.

The commitment it takes when she's trying to get a business off the ground, how you're

going to carry the load at home, this is going to be a 90, 10 marriage for a while and

that's awesome in seasons when y'all are both in on that and how y'all going to come

out of it.

Y'all have to get your values aligned ASAP, which is by the way, what I, what I was saying.

You're trying to start a life and the first year of marriage is the hardest year in my

opinion because you're taking two individual lives, environments that you're bringing in

and John said it way better than me.

I mean, complete agreement but that's why this is a bad idea, not her actual business

idea.

So here's what this looks like in real time, brother, this is y'all sitting down and

saying, as a married couple, how do we value work?

How do we, like, what are our values around how we're going to spend money, how we're

going to save money?