The Rehabilitation of Lane Kiffin's Image? | Hour 2 (feat. John Talty)

0:00You are listening to the Dunlapita show in partnership with the Draftkins Sports Act now live in all 50 states. John Taulty is a better journalist and reporter than Pablo Torrey. He has a story now that is bigger than any that Pablo Torrey has ever done. He is the journalistic get to get today because he is the person who has reported that Lane Kiffin, when he was at Alabama would walk into bars and hit on women with the fake name of Joey Freshwater. And I wanted to talk to him about this because I find this story to be wonderful and amazing. He has got a book out. It is called Lane Being Lane, the story of Lane Kiffin College Football's agent of chaos. It is coming out September 15th. He has also written a best-selling book on Nick Sabin and he is a college sports reporter for CBS Sports. So thank you for joining us John. I have a number of different questions about your book and the excerpt in Vanity Fair.

1:01But my first question is tell me how you got the information about Joey Freshwater. Yeah. So it starts really so I covered Alabama for years for this website called ale.com. And so I was there for the Lane Kiffin era and Tuscaloosa. And so there were stories that I had heard way back then. And even at the time we had kind of joked about this idea of writing a story called the Ballad of Joey Freshwater. And what was tough is that nobody wanted to put their name on it, right? And of course sometimes we have to use anonymous sources. But I wanted to at least somebody to say yes, he actually has used that name. Yes, there's a reason why this is kind of bubbled up on message boards and things like that. So I had always had it kind of as something a little bit of a white whale frankly to try to get to the bottom of this. And writing a book about that guy gave me an opportunity to. And so you know, talk to people who were there at that time, talk to people who were worked at that bar. There's one bar in particular called Innis Frey that he frequented and tried to get to the bottom of it.

2:06And as you mentioned, it was in Vanity Fair excerpt. It's in the book and there's a lot more to it. But to me it's just so Lane Kiffin, right? It's just a hilarious name. Just the idea of Lane Kiffin who at the time was one of the most famous people in the state of Alabama, even just as an offensive coordinator, that he would try to actually tell people his name to Joey Freshwater is just perfectly Lane Kiffin. When you say there's a lot more to it, what more is there to it? Well, this is actually not in the book because someone told me this after I had to turn in the book. So take it off a grain of salt. But someone did tell me that the Joey Freshwater nickname originates from Lane Kiffin. Had a roommate or friend in college who had that as their name on a fake ID way back in the day. And evidently Lane thought it was a hilarious name and it was like, I'm going to use that one day. So that was the story that I got after the book so I didn't make it into the book. But just the general behavior I think in Tuscaloosa is really what I was getting at there. Just him, you know, going out and about. Like it's something that you heard stories about. But I think sometimes you don't know the full extent of it until you write a book.

3:10You realize that there are stories like this back in Oakland and Tennessee, Oxford. Kind of everywhere he's been, there's some sort of off the field shenanigans. I guess you can put it that have followed him. And I think the totality of it almost surprised me a little bit. Did Lane have a drinking problem or a fun problem? I think you could argue both. But certainly he has spoken publicly about the drinking problem. We detail in the book some of the steps that he took to try to get around it. But I will tell you, Dan, that from talking to people who have known him for years, friends, all these different people, they would argue the fun and the chasing of women and things like that could be his greater issue relative to the drinking stuff. But he's a guy who I think binds being safe and stable, kind of boring. He likes to chase, he likes to go after things. And sometimes that was through drinking and other times it's through chasing people.

4:11But that's just kind of a core dynamic I think to who he is. How much did Saban hate him? Well, it's funny, Dan, that they played nice on Game Day now. If you are only seeing how they are together on college, Dan, you would think they're best friends. But when they worked together, it was not like that at all. And you have two people that are just vastly different personalities, as you know, Dan. And the way I kind of describe it is that you've got Nick Saban who with the process, you know, very, this is the way that we do things. It's worked. We're going to keep doing it. And then you have Wayne Kiffin who, especially when he got to Alabama, it's almost like a toddler where he's just asking, why? Why? Why? Why are we doing this? Why can't we do it my way? Why is that happening? And you know, that deeply frustrated Saban at that time. And so I think they realized that there was value in the working relationship. Those guys won a national championship together. You know, he was able to have success with Blake Sims and Jake Coker and Jaylen Hertz as quarterback.

5:15So Wayne was able to help them evolve the offense. But I mean, it was very obvious to everyone who worked there that they did not get along. Pretty much every practice, there was some scene where Nick was yelling at Wayne. Wayne was rolling his eyes, which made Saban even more mad. And then, I mean, listen, the best way to put it is there's been one guy in the history of the sport who's been fired in between the national semifinal and the national championship. And that's Lane Kiffin. And I think that speaks to just how frustrated Nick Saban was by the end of I just need to get out of the Lane Kiffin business. What do you think Lane will like least about your book? I think some of it's already out there. I could tell you at least from what I've heard through the grapevine, did not enjoy the Vanity Fair excerpt, not shocked. And I can just tell you like, you know, we had discussions about whether he was going to participate in this book. And some of that is included in the book. Ultimately, you know, didn't sit down with me, but I talked a lot of people around him. But I do know everything that we are basically talking about on this interview are the things that he is most sensitive about and most concerned about. And I think the part of the reason why Dan

6:19is that he's done a lot of work and let's be real. The people around him have done a lot of work to try to rehabilitate his reputation, to try to rehabilitate his image. And a lot of people have bought it. He's been selling this idea of being a more evolved wiser, better version of himself. And I think there's truth to that. But there's also a lot of bodies that have been left along the way. A lot of people have been left behind. This is Lane rehabbing his image. That's what you just said. This is Lane right now. We're in the middle of Lane rehabbing his image. His attempts to I would argue is not going super well at this moment. But Dan, go back a little bit. Think about it. I don't blame anybody who participated. I think Ryan McGee is a great guy. But I mean, the documentary that they did on E60 a year ago, all the stuff that he was talking about. I needed Oxford more than Oxford needed me. Even just again, think about how college game day handled that interview with him over the weekend. You would have no idea that there's a lot of controversy surrounding this guy. So he's got people in his corner that are very powerful, that are pushing this narrative

7:23as hard as they can. But other people, maybe like you and me, can see through some of that. And realize that there's a lot more to it than just this idea that because Lane Kiffin's 51 and sober that he is evolved and changed in a lot of ways. What's your favorite detail in the book? I think there's a lot of them. But like, personally, for me, when I wanted to write this book, I wanted to understand him better and what made him tick. And like, we can look at the end results of everywhere he leaves, ends horribly, right? But I want to know what's driving that. And so for me, personally, the stuff about his childhood, high school, college, that informed a lot of how I view Lane Kiffin, the relationship between his mom and his dad. Like, I wanted that stuff I've never seen written about anywhere. And I think when you read that stuff and, you know, him idolizing his dad, some of the strain relationship between him and his mom, like, I think it helps you understand who Lane Kiffin is better. So I mean, that stuff's not as juicy as a Vanity Fair excerpt. But to me, if you're trying to understand who is Lane Kiffin, that helps me understand it and it helped me

8:25understand why he does what he does, why he's chasing things, why he can never really just be happy in one place. That's the stuff that I think I'm most proud of. Why do you think Lane Kiffin would have any interest at all in image rehabilitation? Isn't his lucrative Lane, so to speak, as college football's renegade? Because deep down, he doesn't really want to be that. And so I'll tell you guys right now, like, he's kind of embracing this idea of being the villain, but he doesn't want to be the villain. He still thinks he is the hero. And he always thinks, if I can just win enough, one day, I'll be the hero and think to understand Lane. And again, talking to a lot of people who have have known him over the years, like, in this current situation, he's going to feel like he's the victim rather than the instigator. He's going to feel like people are attacking him rather than I stepped in it. And that's why this is all happening. So he does not see himself deep down as the villain. He might say publicly, he's the villain. Certainly, it's a great motivational tactic with a team of young college guys. Like, everyone hates us. It's us against the world that we've seen

9:27coaches do that for years now. And he's smart enough to use that. But like, does he want to be the villain? No, he doesn't. He doesn't deep down want to be the heal. He wants to be the hero of the story. And so he's smart enough to cash it out right now. But he thinks if I can win a national championship at OSU one day, everyone's going to love me again. And whether that happens, we'll see. But that's what he wants and that's what he believes can happen. Football season is back, Jack. And there are certain games you must experience in person. I've had games where I thought I waited too long and I was going to miss out. Then I opened game time and I found tickets right before kickoff. That's why game time is my go-to when I need to be in the building. I can see a panoramic view from my seat before I buy. And the price shown includes all fees. So there are no surprises. Add checkout what you see is what you pay period. I also love zone deals. You choose a section, game time chooses a seat and you save money. Plus every purchase

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12:36code DAN. Taxes and fees apply. I do think that if he wins it, I'll ask you the narrative will change and it'll be looked at as cool things that he does. But if he doesn't want to be the villain, as he considered not speaking, because on college game days, telling Pat McAfee, we're the most hated guys, and everything that he said during that broadcast, even stuff that was taped at halftime, leans into being the villain. In fact, the SEC is now exploring having a vote on kicking LSU out of the SEC, citing what he said off

13:41Mike about pro players. So maybe he should stop projecting being the villain if he doesn't want to be. The alternative title for this book was he just can't help himself to your point, Mike. I'll give you a great example. I had this meeting with Lane Kiffin and his agent Jimmy Sexton, who people believe is one of the most powerful person in college for talking about this book and whether he participated or not. And it was just a very bizarre meeting in every way. And afterwards, you know, Jimmy and I were just kind of making small talk. I was like, that was weird man, like, what happened there? And Jimmy was like, yeah, we had a plan and Lane basically immediately went off script. So that's the thing. Like he's got very smart people around him and yet he just can't help himself. He's going to do what he wants to do. So that thing that you mentioned, Mike, like, you can just see, and I can just see that the wheels turning in his head, like, I've got this great joke. I probably shouldn't say it, but I really want to say it. So he says it. And I think it's put in a lawsuit like that's just perfectly Lane Kiffin in every way where he just can't help himself. I'm saying the joke and then it ends up getting in trouble. We're talking to John

14:44Talti, who previously wrote the Wall Street Journal best selling book on Nick Sabin. This book on Lane Kiffin comes out September 15th, which coincidentally happens to be when they play a game against Ole Miss. And we've been talking about SEC, the meeting that's going to take place over this coming week with the presidents of member conference teams. What is your view? You plan for this book to be released on September 15th. I assume only because there was a game between Ole Miss and LSU. Now you've got the perfect storm of publicity. Tell me about that. It's been wild. That's for sure. Yeah, we did target that date for a reason. And you know, it led to me having to write this book as kind of a sprint. I mean, to try to get it done to be able to hit that date. But even I could not have predicted that the SEC would sue Lane Kiffin before my book came out. Like that's like even of all the wild things that Lane Kiffin might do. I did not imagine that as one of the scenarios. And so, you know, we've got some important things happening. I'm here in Birmingham. We've got a court hearing today

15:46in Birmingham. The SEC's federal suit against Lane Kiffin and OSU. The first hearing of that is today. Thursday, they'll be that discussion around the idea of do we have the power and do we want to kick LSU out of the conference? I think those odds of that happening have decreased certainly since LSU. You kind of laid down its sword and said we're not going to roster those players. But I do think that there are potential penalties still to come for LSU, assuming this hearing goes the way the SEC wants. And so we'll see what that might look like for Lane Kiffin and LSU moving forward. But it is honestly unbelievable, guys. Like this was already I think going to be in some ways the game of the season. There's so much hurt feelings and emotion built into this Ole Miss LSU game. And Lane Kiffin's return to Oxford for the first time without even adding everything that's happened over the last three weeks. So it's going to be an absolute circus. And I don't know if you guys have been Oxford before. But like that town is not big enough to handle what is about to come its way here in about a week and a half. How many people did you

16:46talk to for your book? How long did you spend on your book? Yeah, I think it ended up being 125 plus. I mean, might be 130 or something like that. I forget the exact number. But I know it's at least 125 plus. And so it's interesting, Dan, like the way that I answered that question is like in some ways I've been working on it for years. And I have because I wrote two previous books, one on Nick Sabin, one called The Price, which was about kind of the impact of NIL on coaches and people like that. And Lane Kiffin was a part of both of those books. And the Lane Kiffin stuff is like what people resonated with the most. So I've been kind of having stuff put off to the side, working on a Lane Kiffin book for a couple of years now, you know, pitched my book editor more than a year ago on it. And he was like, I don't know if it's ready yet. I don't know if people want the Lane Kiffin book quite yet. And then with the way that he left Ole Miss going to LSU, that's where it's like, okay, it's time for Lane Kiffin. So really, I mean, January, February through July was just all in. I'm trying to get this thing finished and do as much reporting as I can to be able to have it out. You know, for you guys here in September. It's coming out on an audiobook.

17:49Yep, audiobook. I can't even shit out of this book with my ears. Are you reading it? It's not me. They got somebody else to do it. Yeah, I don't know. It gets, they always say like you have the out, you have the first round of refusal, but I always think they don't actually want you to do it. I guess, you know, maybe one day they'll let me do it. Most surprising thing in your book that isn't the family-related stuff you just mentioned. I think the thing that I did not know that I think is very interesting is that we think about how he left Tennessee and famously go into USC, people are burning mattresses, and this whole thing. It's a big part of, I think, honestly, Lane Kiffin's kind of whole story. When I did not know, I've never seen reported anywhere else that's in the book, is that Tennessee was actually building a case to potentially fire Lane Kiffin with costs. So we always think about again, oh, what could have been if he had stayed at Tennessee, they could have won big. They were already building a case with costs to potentially fire Lane Kiffin at Tennessee, which has never been reported before. It's because of, honestly, some off-field behavior. There was a story in the book in which

18:54a prominent Tennessee booster saw Lane Kiffin out at a bar with another University employee, which led to an investigation. There was NCAA violations that were starting to happen. There was some drinking stuff they were looking into. So there was a lot happening there. So I always, again, my little brother went to Tennessee, there's always that, man, what could have happened if Lane Kiffin had stayed? And I think what's so interesting is that he might not have had a choice to stay ultimately at that investigation and some of that stuff they were looking into proved to be worthy enough to fire him. The Vanity Fair excerpt quotes Nick Sabin is saying, some form of keep him away from the sorority girls. What can you tell us that's relevant about the womanizing? I think as one friend of his told me, I think it defines him like nothing else. And this person told me it's his Achilles heel. Now, Lane Kiffin would of course push back on that. His representatives did push back on that narrative in the book. And so I want to make sure for all legal reasons to note that. But this is something that you go back to Oakland Raiders, Tennessee, Alabama,

20:00after you Ole Miss, everywhere he's been, it has come up in some capacity. And what I could tell you is I was talking to one athletic director who was involved in hiring with Lane Kiffin. And this person said, like, you got to choose what you're okay with. Some guys are jerks, some guys cheat on their wives, some guys are alcoholics, some guys abuse drugs. All that really matters is if you can win. And so with Lane Kiffin, you had to accept that this carousel thing and womanizing thing was part of the deal. And you either accepted that and were okay with that as long as he won or you weren't. And there's a reason why Lane Kiffin's not going to get certain jobs. There's a reason why he is toxic to some programs. And others don't care. And they're fine with it. And he has won enough to continue to get those kind of opportunities. So it's a big part of his story. He would say that that's not true. But you go to enough college towns and it's not hard to find people who have Lane Kiffin stories, whether at bars or other things that he was doing. And

21:01it's the piece of the puzzle, Dan, that I think if he can ever fully figure out, he could be a national championship winning coach. But I think it's the thing that people feel like it's potentially holding him back because when it comes to column plays on Saturdays, there's no one better. I mean, he is truly an offensive subconte. But he's got all this other stuff kind of swirling around him that sometimes makes you question like, is he fully locked in? Is he doing what he needs to be to be the best coach in college football? Last question. You mentioned that the meeting with him and Sexton was bizarre. Why? How? Yeah. I mean, I think it's everything that we're talking about right now is is some of the stuff that I think was, you know, part of that, you know, discussion. It's also just, you know, you got Lane Kiffin, you got Jimmy Sexton. We're at this tiny little table in Sandest in Florida. The SEC spring meetings. We're off to the corner. But, you know, people are walking by like, what is going on there between you guys? And, you know, other side, I think a lot of the meeting like, you know, I kind of can't keep between us. But the one thing that I just remember sitting down and Lane says to me, it's like, I promise you,

22:05this isn't an ambush. And I was like, sure, it feels like an ambush. Like, what are we doing? You guys got me this tiny little table. You're surrounding me. And you're just pressing me on what's in the book. And what am I going to do? And how am I going to handle all these different situations? So, you know, Lane is again, he's very, very, very conscious of his image. That might sound crazy, given what the opinion of Lane Kiffin might be nationwide. But he cares a lot about how he's portrayed. And anything that represents any sort of negative portrayal he takes incredibly personally and gets very upset about. And so, vanity fair, this book in general, I can tell you guys like, he's been hammering people that I talked to for this book, asking them, what did you tell John? Why did you talk to him? All these different things because he's very concerned about what's in this book. John Talti has done an excellent job here with the reporting the vanity fair article, gives you the condensed version. But if you want the whole thing, the new book on Lane Kiffin is coming out September 15th, it is called Lane Being Lane, the story of Lane Kiffin College football's

23:06agent of chaos, though the ballot of Joey Freshwater would have been a better title. Would have sold less books because people wouldn't have known that it was about Lane, but a better title. Thank you John, appreciate the time, appreciate the information. Thanks guys, appreciate it. Tony, you know that moment at a party or a tailgate where everything just sort of clicks. I know it well. It's usually when I show up, everybody goes crazy. Yeah, you usually take all the credit for it, but it's because Tony usually walks in with queer walking like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, queer vote is a thing that turns hanging out into this is the night. It has that effect on people. It does. You usually take the credit for it, but again, it's the queer vote effect. It's like that moment in a big game where everyone in the crowd just starts standing up, hooting and hollering. Keep it queer, folks. Keep it queer, baby. Down levitar. Can't wait for 39. Yeah, I can't either. 40 comes first. Do you know what 40 is yet? Not yet. See, what are we doing? Greg, did you just laugh? Did you just laugh out loud at something Lewis said in your ear? Greg Cuddy. Yes. I couldn't help it, it was

24:11funny. Yeah, but thanks Lewis. Yeah, I'm just gagging the goose. Of course. Choking the frog. I mean, there's a million of course. Half of them would sound dirty if we keep doing it. This is the down levitar show. We've got to go to the bucket ear for the first time this season in a little bit. We've got to get to a gear head segment as well, but I just wanted to celebrate for a moment that beginning tonight with the NFL season, Greg Cuddy begins his 36th season of making picks with the upset bird. His 36th season of NFL prognostications. He's got, look at it. Look at the smile on his face. Look at how look how happy he is to think about reuniting with the upset bird for yet another year. I mean, it's half my life literally and I began in 1991 and it wasn't that common back then. I'm

25:14not saying I was anywhere near the first to do it, but back in 1991, it wasn't that common. You were the first one to make predictions, not Nostradamus, you were before him. No, but it wasn't that common for certainly the first with a cartoon bird. That's true. Can we say that about a lot of things just based off how long you may be one of the first. Yeah, probably a lot of things. Yeah, right. I think of it. Probably the first with a dog of the week. Yes, that's true. Although we retired the dog of the week of the year. Yeah. Oh, welcome, America. Yeah, we know Long I have a dog. Why? Why? Why? This is a wise name. I'll mention the worst game of the week and it very well made it. It's a winks. No, it's just I have three categories, now the dolphins game, the game of the week and the upset of the week, bring back the dog of the week, you know what? I might just because you ask, rain it back to. I'm like a dog with a ball on this one. Okay, I will. I'm going to bring it back. Sell a sponsorship. Okay, you got one. How? That's good. So Greg Cody is going into his 36

26:21season picking games and his son is going into his first season of a new game show that he'd like to debut which is awesome or child abuse. That's right. It's a staple of mine around here. Is it a aqua pellet? All right. So what we have here, we have a family who has a kid and they decided that this kid, I don't know if it's not bungee jumping, what's the thing when you jump off a cliff and you're not going straight down but you end up on like a giant. Oh, that's bungee jumping. No, but bungee jumping is just like straight base jumping. Maybe base jumping. You end up regardless of what it's actually called this kid. It's a family. They have him on the edge of a cliff. He's tied up and you watch this video and you see this kid and you tell me whether he's enjoying himself. Well, before we do this though, explain to the audio audience exactly how this is different from bungee jumping or base jumping. He's tied to something and they're just pushing a what a seven year old or a six year old blonde kid off of a cliff. I imagine that bungee jumping is you're on some sort of bridge and you jump

27:25straight down and then it's just like a bungee cord. Yes, agree. And now this is more of like a grand canyon looking thing where he's going to jump off of the cliff and instead of going straight down, he'll go like as if he's on like the Chris, what's he attached to the kid, a bungee? That's right. Okay, whatever dude, I don't think this is actually called bungee jumping. I don't know what it's called, but it's on a grand canyon. Well, do you think it might be called child abuse? Well, that's what I want you guys to decide here. So let's just game show, but does the game show have music? Like game shows have music. They've got some imaging. If you want to start and have a 36 year run like your father, let's talk this one out. We usually take a bit for a walk. And if it's successful, then we get the music on the back. Well, it's just if it is child abuse, having goofy music underneath is not great. But we're asking the question. It's just a question. It's got a tri- I feel like sometimes it might be very clear. All right. So the part that's a little unsettling to me here is there's going to be a countdown and it's like, all right, here we go. Whatever his name is, come here, Johnny. And as they get him, they kind of walk him to the edge of the cliff. Do you think they asked him first if he wants to do it? Like, hey, we're doing this. That's the confusing part is that he doesn't seem too terrified.

28:27He doesn't also. He also doesn't seem too excited. He's kind of like a neutral. So it's hard to really read him here. But as I want you to pay attention here, I want to get David's question here. Before we watch the video, why maybe for this kid, the action is the juice. I don't love including a credit of where we're getting the video and then saying child abuse. So I'm very hesitant. It's still again. It's a question. It's a question. I have feedback for the game. It's too long. Well, there's no, there's no music. There's no title. He doesn't know the name of the sport. And if we rule one way or another, we're opening ourselves up to an accusation. Well, we don't know for how we're going to rule the ground. We're going to rule the ground. This is when we watch the video and then we come back and we all guess. Was it child abuse or awesome? Are you ready? Yeah. Let's do it. Ready? Five. Four. Three, two, one. Let's go buddy. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Oh my gosh.

29:27Now the kid is just like swinging. That's absolutely short about it. That's a second Wiley Coyote reference. That's crazy. That is absolutely insane. If I got to be 18 years old and I saw that I did this as a kid, I would not want to be with my parents anymore. It's bungee jumping, by the way. Yeah. Totally. OK. There's a lot of swinging there. Whereas the bungee jump, I imagine the bungee jump is a straight down thing and you're just kind of bouncing up and down. I'm going to say it's child abuse, but not for the reason that you think. It's because of the dubstep. That is horrifying. All of what it is that you guys just showed me as I am not much of a thrill seeker. I'm not big on adventure. This child is braver than I am or would ever be. And he did just jump. Like that kid was not afraid of that. But there's also a slight because they don't want a situation where he goes too close to the edge and he's like trickling down. So there is a bit of a just for his safety, a push right at the end. So he gets away from the mount. You think safety was a priority? I think that they are essentially trying to keep him safe by giving him a little shove

30:31at the end. You know what, safer, not pushing him off a cliff. It's a gackie. So what are we voting here? Greg, let's go around the room. Awesome or child abuse? I think it's empty between. I think it's reckless. But I'm just glad you're just glad your business one of the other. I'm just glad your bit didn't involve me because when you first said the premise, I was worried that I was going to be involved in that. Well, there were a few times I had to run for music. Okay. It's a different game, Greg. You can't say reckless. What's totally different? Because it's not the game. It's awesome. Awesome or child abuse. That's not this way. I would never do that. I would never do that. Yeah, not the game. Can we say the game again, Chris, please? What are the options? It's awesome or child abuse. Greg, so they're too happy. Nonviolent child abuse. It's so fun playing with them. I do think that the syllable count is nice for us chanting it together. Awesome. Awesome. Or child abuse. Get some nice music underneath that. You're right, Dan. That's something. Let's see what we've got there. I think we've got something there.

31:32Get some happy music. And the moment that we get to, it's child abuse is when the game ends doesn't last 36 years and on the spot. It's over. It doesn't have any. It's just when you get to, yeah, right. That's correct, but so far we're good. So far one time in we're good. It's got to be awesome every time. Oh, we know that kid was like sobbing. It's been a long time. No, no, he jumped off of his own accord. Like he was happy to do it. He looked a little scared. It's anybody was trying to get away from the dubstep. Yeah, but he jumped and he chose, he chose that. I mean, if you're ever, can you make a decision like that at four? If you're ever out of things to discuss when it comes to this game, just anytime, Miami wins a football game. And Michael, what are you doing that thing? We got to ask it. We've got a gear head that we have to get to here. And we're going to go to the bucket and pick our fate here. And I am told that we are going to abide by a whole lot of costume wearing this season. So the punishments are real. The sponsorships going to be real. I'm told that this is. I know I hear me laying the hammer down. Yeah, Jeremy is the commissioner, which doesn't bode well for much of anything in terms

32:36of, you know, iron fist because he. He was so adorable. He's like, God, this year it's going to be super serious. We were better last year. He's a personable fella. And that's all there's going to be real punishment if you don't do it. I don't know. It's going to be better. I mean, we did get rid of that one guy. What do you have for gear head mic? Because you're wearing your Richard gear hat. And we've put, we've put some more pieces on it, some pieces have fallen off it. But the gear head remains strong and features the hood ornament of Richard gear. So, Dan, we're in the chase, which is NASCAR's version of the playoffs. And Christopher Bell has been the bridesmaid all season long. He finally gets a win. But that is not the talking point from this race. Carson Hosevar, who's kind of got a little bit of a growing, deal, earnhard type reputation. Young hot shot that does a lot of things that rub drivers the wrong way almost quite literally. He spun Brad Kuzlowski out. And it's a crazy sport like that because you can just at any moment decide, I'm going to wreck this guy.

33:37And Carson Hosevar does that a lot. Now, I'm going to cue up some sound from Danny Hamlin because Danny Hamlin was really funny on his podcast. One of the great podcasts out there, Super on his Super Engaging. He's like, I'm not going to say anything about Carson Hosevar because I'm not going to give him what he wants. But then he gives a quote about the team and it's exactly what Carson Hosevar wants. Here's a clip. I'll talk about Spire. Well, I do wonder like, there's no adults in the room. Clearly in that building. No adults. That's my opinion. Because how can you honestly think that that's what's best for your company? If you're running a serious organization, I think they're unserious. That's great. Anything else? Yeah. Keep in mind, he prefaced that by saying, I'm not going to give Carson Hosevar what he wants and address him. But then he just takes out the entire team, a team in which Carson Hosevar is the crown jewel of. Carson Hosevar, by the way, sold like a quarter million dollars worth of merch after he spun

34:38Brad Kizlowski out. He's one of the more popular up and coming racers out there because of his style because he reminds people of a bygone era. He had a statement after Danny Hanlon's comments, and man, NASCAR is good with a drama this season. So many people are out there going to discredit you for being a fan of us, us being Spire. They're going to call you dumb fake fans and worse. NASCAR doesn't have to be that serious. We race for the fans. And the ones that hate us, regardless if we're an unsurious organization. That's a bad typo at the end of the way that he spelled unsurious at the end. Where? Oh, unearceous. Carson, I mean, this is why people like Carson Hosevar and Carson Hosevar is a bad spell. Yeah, well, it's just because he's a common man, you know, he's got a man can't spell. Yeah, he's got a wreck. Yeah, and then he's going to make a typo about it. And he's become hugely popular, so popular in fact, that if you even resemble Carson Hosevar and NASCAR race, people will flag you down and want to talk to you about Carson Hosevar, which is what happened to my buddy college Mike.

35:41Now college Mike, this was night two at Daytona. And you know, it's been a thing in NASCAR races. He does bear a slight resemblance to Carson Hosevar. They're both white and tallish and blonde. And so like the first night we were at this bar, lovely people called the pit stop. They're like, hey, it's Hosevar and college Mike's like, yeah, whatever, I'll have a couple beers. And so night two after the race, Carson Hosevar wrecks out ruins the race for a lot of people that had action on it, just had blue attire. And so they keep the bit going, hey, Carson, what's up, man? He's like, ah, you know, I'm not Carson. I don't matter. Here, have some beers. But then what happened was people started coming up to college Mike and the bartenders who know that this is not Carson Hosevar insisted that it was. And at a certain point, college Mike decides, all right, if it, I'll just go with it. And about two dozen people come up to college Mike at a NASCAR race, while college Mike is wearing a Denny Hamlin t-shirt, okay? He's wearing the Carson Hosevar hat, but he's wearing another driver's t-shirt.

36:42They are convinced he is Carson Hosevar. Dan, I saw a woman come up to him say, my daughter loves you. She wakes her up at 12.30 a.m. Face times college Mike's like, yeah, well, tough race, blue attire. And he's just going on with this. He's signed cowboy hats. How about you guys? He signed NASCAR. Well, we were. We were. He did have our social team around him. So like, I can see why people are like, oh, this guy's got people recording. Yeah. Especially when the bartenders are like, that's Carson Hosevar. One of the ladies like, is that really what, is that really Carson Hosevar? I'm like, that's what they're saying. And so he's like signing with permanent markers. Yes. People's like real cowboy hat. But he doesn't know what Carson Hosevar's signature looks like. So he just, so he just, well, I mean, it doesn't look like Carson Hosevar can smell all that great. But he's just scribbling an autograph. Chicken scratch on his guy's cowboy hat. This guy takes his hat and he Googles Carson Hosevar's signature. And of course, it looks nothing like Carson Hosevar's signature. The guy comes up to college Mike rips his hat off and goes, hey, you're not Carson Hosevar.

37:45Mike, time to go. And we all leave. Wasn't he wearing like a Denny Hamlin shirt? He was wearing a Denny Hamlin shirt. Okay, I'm going to have to do this again to Chris for the second time. Yeah, it's a C-Mart and also shirt. Minor Belly, two minutes four. And not listening to the show. Yeah, so that was this edition of Gear Head. The chase is already so great. Gear Head is presented by Cuervo for every lap. Keep it fun. Keep it Cuervo. Please show yourself out. So we have something to get to here with Zazlow's feuding with Cam Newton. Is that fair to say Zaz? I don't know if I would say feuding, but I hate him. All right, we'll get to that in a second. Oh, unercious.