The RNC Convention Was Basically a Trump Cult Meeting

0:00Hey everyone, it's me Sam Stein, managing editor at the Bullwark and I am joined yet again by Sunny Bunch. We decided that two nights of three plus hour live streams was just not enough for our convention coverage. Sunny hasn't been through enough psychological torture that we wanted to bring him back on and talk about the convention one more time. In reality, Sunny has a great piece up or coming up, depending on when you see this, on his experience at the convention and I wanted to talk to Sunny about it because I just watched it through my screen. Sunny lived it and we got to watch Sunny deteriorate. So, Sunny, let's go chronologically. First of all, I think we should start with the stuff that happened prior to the convention because that was kind of fun. Where we almost did not get credentials. Can you explain exactly how that happened? Well, we weren't sure. We weren't sure was the thing. I emailed, you very foolishly, put me in

1:00charge of getting the credentials. So, I emailed to get them a couple weeks ahead of time and heard back, hey, fill out this form and then I didn't hear anything back for a while. So, I emailed them a week later. I was like, hey, what's the deal with this? And the nice lady I was talking to, who I won't name here. I don't want to put anybody on blast. But they're like, oh, hold on, let me get the Dallas GOP option. So, I got the generic Dallas GOP address and then somebody else was added in. And they were like, did we approve this? And then somebody said, you got to back up. They asked it so just to be clear to the person. Oh, yeah, I'm going to say exactly what they said. So, we applied for the credentials. I'm on the email thread. I sent a follow up. More people get added to it. And then somebody replied, I thought the bull work was denied. Somebody else replied to that. Not sure, but I would not recommend giving them credentials. All while I'm still on the thread. I'm just watching this happen.

2:05I kind of like cocked my head, like a dog that doesn't understand what's going on. All right, well, I guess we're not, I guess we're not going to go eventually though, eventually, though, my colleague Andrew Agger did get a logistic sheet. So, I was like, I guess, I guess we're in, I emailed again. I don't know if I told you this. I emailed again after Andrew got that sheet. I was like, are we good here? Can I come get the credentials? And nobody ever replied to me. So, I just drove to the Hilton, Anatoli. I was like, can I have the credentials please? And they're like, yeah, sure, how many do you need? I was like, here's five. So I had five, me personally, since I was in here, I had five credentials for the midterm convention, which was good. Just in case the first one went bad, I suppose. Internally, we were debating about whether to just do a piece on the fact that they had accidentally added sunny to the email and denying him the credentials and blasting us as a publication unworthy of attending their convention. I'm glad we didn't because you did. If we had done a piece, I'm sure you would not

3:08have been able to attend. Maybe you're not glad. No, no, I love being the subject of Stanford prison experiments. Sam, so this was a fantastic time for me. All right. So you got the credentials. No one, no one raised a stink about it. What were your expectations going in? At a curiosity. Well, I wasn't sure, honestly, because I didn't, I didn't quite understand what the point of this thing was. So at a convention, you actually are you're hashing out what the platform's going to look like. You're nominating, theoretically, you're nominating somebody for your party's candidacy. How it actually works, I think, is a little, let's not be ridiculous. Things are already pretty settled by the time you get there, but there's still stuff happening. Everybody is there. Everybody is at the national conventions for the presidency. Like this is it's a real event. It's a huge deal. It's really a big thing. I wasn't sure what this was going to be like, because first of all, lots of people just weren't there. Like there were

4:11kind of jokes about Marco Rubio was smart enough to be in Venezuela or wherever he is this week instead of at this thing. So there was definitely, there was some there was some trepidation about like what this actually would be. Mostly, I just wanted to see what the vibe was like of the attendees. I wanted to see what they were there for that. That's the thing I was I was most interested in because it turns out that this whole thing was just a party for Donald Trump. And this is what you once you once you understand that this was like a big shindig for Donald Trump to celebrate Donald Trump and to get everybody excited about Donald Trump that he really is the only thing keeping the party together at this point. The whole second first first night with the two hour speech and the second night with the 35 minute recap of the two hour speech makes a lot more sense. People were calling it Trump a Paloza, I guess because it's like an easy thing to use an easy phrase that you can dump it. It did kind of have parallels to like a benefit concert in a way. Right? Like it's

5:16that the bands on tour doing it's like a bunch of bands decide let's get together and like benefit a cause. In this case, the cause was was Trump. But there's no real other reason there. It's like did they even have delegates? I know you said in your piece they had alternates, but alternates to what? They had, they're there were there were delegates. There were people who had, you know, badges with their state on it like official state. Delicates for what? But but and so this was this is what I would ask people when I would see the alternate badge. I would ask them. So you're an alternate and they'd be like, yeah, yeah. And I would say an alternate to what? And they would they would give me the side eye because they're like, you're making a joke. But I was and I was making a joke. Let's be honest. Like I was, you know, kind of messing with them. But like at the same time, literally, what are what are you doing here? Like what do they like vote on anything? Like a no, there were no, I mean, there were no even voice votes. It wasn't even like we was excited to support the candidate. I like there was nothing. So I don't I yeah, that's the long in the short of it. It was it was a it was a weirdly it was it was a weirdly Trumpi event.

6:22I mean, not weirdly Trumpi. It was it was it was it was a design by design a very Trumpi event. I you know, I grabbed a couple pictures of the Trump the gold Trump car that was just outside of the security perimeter, which my favorite my favorite detail, it like you zoom in on the picture that I took is that it's not just signed by Donald J Trump. It's also signed by Eric Trump. And you can just imagine the guy who actually has the car being like, sure, Eric, you can sign it too. That's it. That's all right. Man, whose whose car is this? Do we know? I have no idea. I have no way there was nobody there explaining it. It was just court it was just sectioned off with velvet ropes. I was like, sure, this is there's the Eric Trump. I you know, good for Eric. Was it were there other like memorabilia items that kind of stuck out? I mean, obviously he sells everything. So like, you know, maybe people walk around with the Trump sneakers or there's those t-shirts, the Dallas t-shirts with Trump as the marble man, which ironically a lot of those marble men died from the product they were selling. So I love that

7:22t-shirt so much that I almost bought it. I like I should have bought it. I could never I could never actually wear it. My wife might actually run me a lot about it. But the but the but I do love the absurdity of that image of Donald Trump as like the big tough guy on the horse. Do you think has Trump ever ridden a horse? I there must be a video of him somewhere writing. I'm not back in the day. We know so we know Ivanka posted a video like two days ago for writing a wild horse. I bet Trump back in the day like, you know, when he was younger and was like in the 80s when he did weird shit like ride horses. Yeah, Trump probably did that. He probably like that's like 80s fashion or something. But it is just this whole image of this this this self image of him as like tough guy of like man of man of man of the soil, you know, real salt to the earth type. Like I just don't understand who he's fooling. But the answer is everybody at this thing at the like everybody here loved Trump. And this is look, the party isn't a real bind. I think if we get like

8:26putting on my serious hat for a minute, like the party doesn't have an identity beyond Donald Trump. And I don't think he's wrong precisely to think I am the one who will excite the base and get them to turn out to vote for this. They don't have anything else. He's absolutely right. Actually, let's play the math. So, you know, we sat through these speeches and obviously, you know, we sat through Trump's hour and 45 minute speech. And now I can't really remember anything that he said. It's like that difficult because it all blends together. But I think we did a good job summarizing it in this mashup clip. And it gets to your point, which is the positive issues that they have to run on. So it's like basically communism's coming trans kids are playing in girl sports and we love Donald Trump. That's basically it. And that was just sort of like the central themes for everybody. And God bless the greatest president in the history of this nation. Donald J. Trump.

9:28God bless Donald Trump. God bless President Donald J. Trump. God bless Donald Trump. God bless Donald J. Trump. God bless President Trump. God bless President Trump. God bless Donald J. Trump. It's not just a son piker. Hasan Piker. Hasan Piker. Hasan Piker. Grone Men, who seem to be pretty obsessed with trans children, transgender children, trans gender sex changes transgender trans gender surgeries of transgender day of visibility. Trans gender ideology, trans gender mutilation, trans gender, everything. God is trans trans gender children trans gender mutilation trans gender for everybody. So yeah, that's it. There were other weird things we don't have the video of it. It was when he did the Pledge of Allegiance. The Pledge of Allegiance. The Pledge of Donald Trump. Were you in the room when that happened? I was. I was sitting in the press section. It's very

10:30funny. The way the the stadium was aligned was the press section was directly behind the stage. So if you were sitting in the press section, you just saw a big black screen. Just there and you couldn't really hear because it was muffled. So you know, that that really kind of summarized the the the state of things for the press. But I was watching that was kind of off to the side. The that was that was it was weird. That's weird. I don't think that's the first time he's done it, but it's weird. It's a weird thing to see in person. Are people a little I'm guessing the answer is no to this, but I am kind of curious when you're talking to attendees. Like, are they self-aware about all the kind of cultish elements of this? Well, no, because they're part of part of the cult. I mean, like it's, you know, this is the the extent to which the iconography at this thing was very explicitly a mashup of American flag and Donald J. Trump is is intentional. I mean, like it he is America to these people. He is the like living avatar of Americanism to to these

11:35folks. And you know, that that leads to look, I there is always an element of this. I think in American politics, right? The leader is like the guy who everybody is there to see, but it is a I've never I've never I don't know, man, I like it's it's it's it's to another level with Donald J. Trump. I guess I guess the I want to draw the parallel because I was kind of, you know, I was at Huff Post during this moment. So I can speak with some authority about the Obama cult, right? Like there was a big thing about like in O.A. people thought Obama fans were cultish and there's that remember that whole thing about it. The Roman columns at the at the convention. It is just a shrine to Obama. Although that doesn't that does not compare at all to what we're seeing now. I mean, the Obama honeymoon war off very quickly. And it became kind of fashionable among Democrats at a certain point in like Bash Obama. I mean, at Huff Post like we were we were kind of like we're

12:40overly critical of Obama on a lot of stuff like the drone wars and things like that. You do not see that with Trump with Trump. It's all fealty. Like you do not leave the reservation at all with Trump. We do have video of the of the pledge and I think it's worth just showing now so we can get a sense of just what we're talking about. Please raise your right hand. I pledge to the greatest president in the history of the United States. That loves us so much. He can't even breathe. We swear that or November 3rd we are going to go out and vote. If you vote, you vote. Okay. So help me God. I think at one point he does say you go to hell if you don't go vote now. That was that was the end of that. Which was funny. And look, here's you know, it's funny. Listening to

13:44them try to repeat the things back to him is is is very interesting. It's like, do you ever watch Family Feud Sam? Are you a family? It's been a bit about who's host now. Steve Harvey cheese. But when sometimes Steve Harvey will have there will be an exceptionally long answer to one of the questions and the audience will try to repeat it back and it just gets lost because they can't because it's and that's what that whole segment was like. It was you know, but the but the sorry, I love I love the feud. We should do a feud game at the Bullark. That's a smart idea. I want to game we got to figure that. Okay. Okay. We'll work on that. Yeah. And here is the other thing that that comes across more clearly in person. And I think is what gives these people a mental pass on some level is that this does feel in part like a comedy show. Like there is lots of laughing in the crowd. They're like everybody's having a good time. Donald Trump is doing this in a way that is cultish and is self obsessed. But he's doing it so over the top with such ridiculous

14:50K-fabe to use a to use a JBL term that that people can't help but kind of laugh about it that it is that it's funny. And I like it it's the only thing I can think that makes this that gets rid of the cognitive dissonance with what they're doing. Like it's like it's just like what he did with sure it's like what he did with Ken Paxton, right? It's like he's just up there and he's just absolutely ripping the guy to shreds, ripping ugly and dressing poorly. And everyone's laughing and poor Ken Paxton like is stuck either he's like got to go along with the joke or he just feels ashamed. But he Trump can get away with it because because there is an element of like humor more or less. There's an element of humor and then he closes it by saying but even despite all that, even despite the fact that he's the ugliest S.O.B. on the planet with the worst tasting clothes, nice blue suit this time though by the way, I don't know if you, but the but he closes it by saying he's the best attorney general in any of the states ever and the audience

15:53eats it up. They they get real excited about it. So I know you told that you were saying that in Slack that the audience was just totally eating it up even as we were like, oh my god poor Ken Paxton. I do want I I'm sorry I just the look on his face because you know he's up on he's up on the jumbo tron. Well Trump yeah Ken so Ken Paxton is like up on the jumbo tron while Trump is doing this and his face is like you can I can't tell if he's like into it and he's enjoying it or if he's dying inside and can't show it. I like it's it's a it's a very it's just I don't know man I wish I'd grab the picture of that because it was I know we didn't because we couldn't see that all these others Trump making fun of him. I want to talk about Charlie Kirk a bit here because this was if there was a second main persona for this event it wasn't JD Vance honestly it was it was Kirk. In fact we you know Vance almost alluded to it when he went on this incredible riff. Charlie ladies and gentlemen was dedicated to this movement in this country he loved and I do mean love

16:55the president of the United States but in the eight months or so that we were in office before Charlie died I talked it to him a lot almost every day and Charlie was still a free thinker with his own principles and views. He did not always agree with us let me just give you one example Charlie hated war. Well it was Europe or Africa the Middle East he didn't care he just hated war. That was his view. Now of course there are people who love what we've done and people who don't I'm not here to litigate the disagreements between Charlie and some of the people that he disagreed with but what I'm asking you to do is do what Charlie did do not throw the baby out with the bath water. But Charlie also understood you have to vote for Republicans so Vance is basically positioning himself as someone who's wink wink I also hate this war but I'm you know going along with it but Kirk in the legacy and what he meant he was used almost as like a proxy for a lot of people in the audience and he wrote about this in the piece and I'm just sort of wondering kind of

17:57the presence that he had in that convention hall spiritually and I guess politically. I would say so the number one figure that everybody was wearing clothes and emulating obviously Donald Trump the number two and it wasn't even close was Charlie Kirk lots of remember Charlie memor memorabilia lots of you know memorials at the tables that were set up with some of the news outlets there were definitely you know do it for Charlie type type signs and stands and he again it's really interesting and like who knows who knows how much of this was planned and to what extent it was just kind of timing but the second day the closing day of this thing was on the first anniversary of Charlie Kirk's murder like that he he there's there was a little long tribute to him in the lead up to JD Vance's talk and and as you mentioned Sam the the appeal that JD Vance makes for the

18:57guy ran war which is the only issue that was splitting the the the folks I talked to at all you know the they were a with Trump on everything they're with Trump on the the $5,000 dividend because that's a very conservative thing they were with they were with Trump on on everything except for the Iran War there was a real split amongst the attendees there and JD Vance's appeal to the crowd was not to say trust Donald Trump it was not to say we're doing this and it's going to be great it wasn't to kind of bluster through it like Trump did with Laura Ingraham earlier in the night uh on on Fox right he was like no I I wouldn't say that it's going to be fine he said think what Charlie would want think what Charlie would want and do what Charlie would want and he really was a presence of this thing there's there was a real there was a real win one for the Gipper vibe uh surrounding Charlie Charlie Kirk which is it's really it's interesting I I I don't entirely know what to make of it and I don't know how effective it will be outside of this hall but with this

19:59group with this group of activists and and uh folks who would go to a completely pointless midterm convention they were they were they were very moved by it you know there's something yeah I on one hand this is not abnormal every conservative not every but many conservatives many people in the mag movement have basically insisted that Charlie Kirk towards the end of his life maybe even in the final text that they sent was secretly advocating for some cause that they care about right and so in this case Vance is like you know Charlie hated war but he really wanted Republicans to win so like that's a version of this but also it's like to your point they don't have people beyond Trump who they can hold up as future leaders I mean obviously JD's one of them in Marco and Don Jr. maybe but like what is this entity in a post Trump world and so in that sense Charlie Kirk becomes kind of the seminal figure because he can be anything to anybody at this juncture he

21:01doesn't you know and obviously the tragic way in which he died you know he means a lot to these people so it gets to the point you're talking about is like who do they turn to when Trump is gone and we'll also I guess the other thing that sponsor that is will Trump leave right like it's like you know I yeah this is a midterm convention and yeah everyone's basically saying he's gonna he's not gonna run again and he can't but like he's gonna have other conventions like he's not gonna like just suddenly say you know I'm done with the stuff he eats it up he will be the figurehead of the party regardless of who the next nominee is I think is is I mean even at this convention right he what was he saying he was saying um uh he was kind of joking like you know pretend I'm on the ballot and then he would kind of do in his side voice I'm on the ballot I'm I'm on the ballot and like it was in and I guess he was a side voice sunny he literally said I'm on the ballot at some places like okay yeah sure I it's it was a it's it's it's an interesting thing for sure um

22:04and and again I there there's an argument to be made that this is I know uh Lauren are our colleague Lauren wrote about this the Democrats are like you want to put yourself on the ballot you have monumentally unpopular we will happily let you do this and I think there's something to be said for that you know but midterms are based elections right it's lower turnout you want to get your hardcore folks out there and they the the Republicans see this is the only path to getting that vote turned out and I don't think they're wrong I like I just don't I don't think they're wrong I don't know what else they they have no other cards to play yeah no I it's 100 true it's it is kind of a bind obviously because the more Trump's out there the more Democrats are gonna go out there too but they have to I mean it's a mix right they have to get their people out there and then they have to tar every Democrat on the ballot as you know a san piker and you know pro transgender um leaving Dallas like what's your take about the mood of the movement if you had to summarize it I don't know how to describe it because this is such a weird selection of people

23:08it's such a weird self selection of people that there there's no universe in which because I had gone to this honestly kind of wondering and we talked about this a little bit you know will people be downbeat will it be you know will people be a little bit you know depressed about the state of the party and that was not the vibe at this thing at all everyone was having a pretty good time the the people who were on the floor were really into it the people who were in the crowd were really into it it was not as crowded as like this is the thing that actually like puts me up to hear every time Donald Trump is like look at there's not a seat the straight to the rafters filled and it was just like the entire top section of the American Airlines Center was empty I've been to I've been to multiple events at the American Airlines Center and I will say that uh Bruce Springsteen obviously had more people there than Donald Trump did uh the luminaires I believe had more people than Donald Trump did he did about as well as the smashing pumpkins and uh and James addiction I went to a smashing pumpkins James addiction show that was about the level where don't love I'm loving your 90s recall here that's great

24:10uh okay well listen hey man I appreciate it it was fun I know it was painful but um we're sick goes and I kind of enjoyed it and um we'll see if they do another convention might have to send you even if it's not in Dallas because you did a really good job with this piece like people should people should go and read it it's a lot of fun there's a lot of dirt and a bit ski in there so well read the piece you want it you want to talk about dirt so he has very strong feelings about dirt spade away jumper that come across I think in the piece so uh bye signing thanks a bunch man for those who watch thank you for watching for all all our coverage honestly both by streams that honestly the best part was interacting with the comments you guys are great we really appreciate it and subscribe to the feed if you don't already better yet tell people who you who are not bull work fans or who don't know about the bull work yet to join our community to just get acquainted with it you can subscribe on substack you can subscribe on youtube written oral video it's awesome we got the hosha bang all right bud take care have a good one okay