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The Ruby Freelancers Show 057 – Fixed Bids
About this Episode
Panel Ashe Dryden (twitter github blog) Eric Davis (twitter github blog) Jeff Schoolcraft (twitter github blog) Charles Max Wood (twitter github Teach Me To Code Rails Ramp Up) Discussion
00:39 - Experience working with fixed bids
04:08 - Risks Value 06:45 - Collecting Payment Working in phases and milestones 08:56 - Are fixed bid projects fair?
16:57 - Nailing down specifics
19:51 - Dealing with scope creep Contract clauses/additional contracts 26:15 - Getting clients to agree with your fixed bid or hourly preference
28:29 - Estimates Prioritizing Point estimation 37:11 - Transitioning from fixed bid to hourly work
38:42 - Figuring out what to bid Project management Value-Based Fees: How to Charge - and Get - What You're Worth by Alan Weiss Option pricing 44:41 - Ask clients why they prefer fixed bid pricing Picks Healthy Programmer by Joe Kutner (Ashe) DuoLingo (Ashe) #RubyThanks (Ashe) Becoming a Better Programmer Indie GoGo campaign (Ashe) Douglas Rushkoff: Wall Street Journal adaptation from Present Shock (Eric) Ruby Heroes (Chuck) Colloquy (Chuck) Value-Based Fees: How to Charge - and Get - What You're Worth by Alan Weiss (Jeff) Next Week
How do you convince clients of the value of tests, refactoring, etc.?
Transcript
ERIC: Chuck, I'm cold. Keep me warm! [Hosting and bandwidth provided by the Blue Box Group. Check them out at bluebox.net] CHUCK: Hey everybody and welcome to Episode 57 of the Ruby Freelancers Show! This week on our panel, we have Ashe Dryden. ASHE: Hello from Madison, Wisconsin! CHUCK: Eric Davis. ERIC: Hello! CHUCK: Jeff Schoolcraft. JEFF: What's up! CHUCK: I'm Charles Max Wood from devchat.tv. This week, we're going to be talking about "Fixed Bids". How much of you guys done with fixed bids? ASHE: I used to do them a lot more than I do them now; I actually tried to not do fixed bids. CHUCK: Is there a reason for that? ASHE: Yeah. It never really sticks really well with the fixed bid; I mostly do hourly now. I prefer hourly because it allows the client to kind of expand or contract their needs without feeling limited by the contract and it makes me feel less mean. CHUCK: Oh, it makes sense. ASHE: So I don't have to constantly say "Well, that wasn't really part of the original contract". I can give them what they need and what they want without having to have that difficult conversation. CHUCK: How about you guys, Eric and Jeff? JEFF: I've done a few very small fixed bid projects. But by large, I'm mostly hourly mostly for the same reason as Ashe has. And beyond that, it's really hard to get a scope timed on off and it makes it comfortable for me to try to bid on something. ERIC: For me...I don't know, maybe 20% if that -- I actually have a different reason. I don't mind fixed bids, but the project has to be very specific. There has to be a lot of trust between me and the client first off so that I can trust that they're going to understand what's cocube is; we don't have those problems or discussions. The other side of it is, the project has to be [inaudible] and that it's something I've done before or there's not a lot of technical risk on the project. If there is a lot of technical risk for a lot of unknowns, then I basically say "We're going to have to be hourly because I can't guess this upfront and commit to it". CHUCK: Yeah. I've done a couple of fixed bids myself, they were less than a thousand dollars effect; both of them were $500 a piece and it was an enough work that it wasn't that risky. One of them, I really actually didn't get paid on; and it was because I was setting up some software, some third-party software, for somebody on their server. He was unhappy with the result because there was a bug in the software that I set up, but I didn't actually write it. Anyway, it's kind of interesting I haven't done major fixed bid projects,
00:39 - Experience working with fixed bids
04:08 - Risks Value 06:45 - Collecting Payment Working in phases and milestones 08:56 - Are fixed bid projects fair?
16:57 - Nailing down specifics
19:51 - Dealing with scope creep Contract clauses/additional contracts 26:15 - Getting clients to agree with your fixed bid or hourly preference
28:29 - Estimates Prioritizing Point estimation 37:11 - Transitioning from fixed bid to hourly work
38:42 - Figuring out what to bid Project management Value-Based Fees: How to Charge - and Get - What You're Worth by Alan Weiss Option pricing 44:41 - Ask clients why they prefer fixed bid pricing Picks Healthy Programmer by Joe Kutner (Ashe) DuoLingo (Ashe) #RubyThanks (Ashe) Becoming a Better Programmer Indie GoGo campaign (Ashe) Douglas Rushkoff: Wall Street Journal adaptation from Present Shock (Eric) Ruby Heroes (Chuck) Colloquy (Chuck) Value-Based Fees: How to Charge - and Get - What You're Worth by Alan Weiss (Jeff) Next Week
How do you convince clients of the value of tests, refactoring, etc.?
Transcript
ERIC: Chuck, I'm cold. Keep me warm! [Hosting and bandwidth provided by the Blue Box Group. Check them out at bluebox.net] CHUCK: Hey everybody and welcome to Episode 57 of the Ruby Freelancers Show! This week on our panel, we have Ashe Dryden. ASHE: Hello from Madison, Wisconsin! CHUCK: Eric Davis. ERIC: Hello! CHUCK: Jeff Schoolcraft. JEFF: What's up! CHUCK: I'm Charles Max Wood from devchat.tv. This week, we're going to be talking about "Fixed Bids". How much of you guys done with fixed bids? ASHE: I used to do them a lot more than I do them now; I actually tried to not do fixed bids. CHUCK: Is there a reason for that? ASHE: Yeah. It never really sticks really well with the fixed bid; I mostly do hourly now. I prefer hourly because it allows the client to kind of expand or contract their needs without feeling limited by the contract and it makes me feel less mean. CHUCK: Oh, it makes sense. ASHE: So I don't have to constantly say "Well, that wasn't really part of the original contract". I can give them what they need and what they want without having to have that difficult conversation. CHUCK: How about you guys, Eric and Jeff? JEFF: I've done a few very small fixed bid projects. But by large, I'm mostly hourly mostly for the same reason as Ashe has. And beyond that, it's really hard to get a scope timed on off and it makes it comfortable for me to try to bid on something. ERIC: For me...I don't know, maybe 20% if that -- I actually have a different reason. I don't mind fixed bids, but the project has to be very specific. There has to be a lot of trust between me and the client first off so that I can trust that they're going to understand what's cocube is; we don't have those problems or discussions. The other side of it is, the project has to be [inaudible] and that it's something I've done before or there's not a lot of technical risk on the project. If there is a lot of technical risk for a lot of unknowns, then I basically say "We're going to have to be hourly because I can't guess this upfront and commit to it". CHUCK: Yeah. I've done a couple of fixed bids myself, they were less than a thousand dollars effect; both of them were $500 a piece and it was an enough work that it wasn't that risky. One of them, I really actually didn't get paid on; and it was because I was setting up some software, some third-party software, for somebody on their server. He was unhappy with the result because there was a bug in the software that I set up, but I didn't actually write it. Anyway, it's kind of interesting I haven't done major fixed bid projects,
No transcript available for this episode.
