The Shocking Venezuela Kidnapping: Geopolitics, Minerals & The Future of Latin America | Fernando Munoz | Silk and Steel

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Silk and Steel Podcast.

I'm your host, Karl Zab.

Today I have a very special guest, my friend Fernando from China.

Fernando is a Colombian entrepreneur and commentator on world politics.

And I invited Fernando today because I saw he was featured recently on China daily.

And I believe CGTN, yes Fernando?

Yes, CGTN, China Daily and others.

And on the current crisis unfolding in Venezuela.

So my pleasure to introduce you Fernando to my audience,

but maybe you should do a brief intro of yourself,

because I think you'll do a better justice than me.

Maybe briefly tell people who you are and what you do.

Sure.

Well, first of all, thank you very much, Karl.

It's a pleasure and it's an honor to be with you.

And those of you watching, thank you for lending me your eyes for a while.

My name is Fernando. I'm from Colombia.

I came to China in the year 2000.

And I started a business of English language training centers in the city of Dongguan,

in Guandong.

That started in 2004, 2005.

And I retired in 2021, basically, 2021-2022,

with a double reduction that took place in which whatever subject that was taught a school

could not be taught at training centers,

unless you were a nonprofit.

So there was a no-go for me.

And since then, I started just different endeavors.

Basically, I started a website called Media Without Means, Media Without Means.

It's where I try to fight misinformation by educating people and talking to people

about the stories, the other side of the stories.

Namely, China.

There's a lot of misinformation about China.

And other than that, I decided to travel.

So I've traveled all over China, mainland China,

and Hainan.

There's two places that I haven't been to.

I haven't been to Taiwan.

I haven't been to Xi Jinping or Tibet yet.

But every other province, I visited more than 230 cities.

And that's since 2022, traveling in my RV.

And I recently started a new endeavor,

which is to do the same, but this time, biking around China.

So a bit of journalist or storyteller from the ground,

and that's basically anything else that you may want to know.

You can leave it in the comments and make sure to pop in.

And give you the answers that you may want, unless you ask me.

I originally thought I would have you

on to talk about your experience living in China,

because you are long-term China resident.

And you have been all over the country.

But today, I brought you particularly

because something that happened much closer

to your country or origin of Colombia.

In fact, you're the next-door neighbor in Israel,

because what happened on January 3rd,

when US special forces went inside the country

and kidnapped Venezuelan president Maduro,

and now they're going to set him up

in some kind of kangaroo court in New York.

And immediately after that, Trump threatened to go after Colombia.

You know, which is quite surprising to me,

because Colombia, to my understanding,

has been the closest US ally in Latin America.

I mean, I can't see the only reason that Trump might have a problem

with Colombia is Colombia have a new leader,

have a new president, new president petrol,

is trying to improve relationship with this neighbor,

with Venezuela, and it's trying to pursue

an independent foreign policy.

Of course, that's a clearly no-no for US empire.

They don't care about past history or cooperation or friendship,

whatever, as long as you deviate from script,

no, you are now a persona non-grata.

So please, being a person from the region,

that's why I have you here, please tell me your takes

on the down folding events.

When I woke up to the news, the first word that came to my mind was,

it was too easy. It was too easy,

and that meant many different things,

many different spheres.

Too easy, in a sense, that it was too easy to go

into a sovereign country without pretty much no-resistant whatsoever,

find the president exactly where he was,

keep napping him and fly out and take him to New York.

That in itself is too easy, so there's a ton of questions

that are derived from that, like,

where they're traders, where they're informants,

where people paid, where they're...

I mean, how did that come to happen?

Right. What kind of technology was used

in order to find him or to immobilize defense mechanism?

I mean, there's a lot of questions, as I said,

with that little aspect.

The other part of it was too easy,

had to do with the international

organizations that are supposed to safeguard

sovereign countries from things like this happening.

Where is so? Where was the UN?

Where was Europe?

Where were all the leaders condemning this action?

You have premise to the UK,

unable to judge what we see

is a violation of international law,

is a violation of the UN charter.

You see Macron also, like,

tiptoeing around it,

meloni, you need to leave the same thing.

So, that's what I meant when it was too easy.

There was no international repudiation

from Western countries, the strong Western countries.

Obviously, many countries around Latin America

were really upset at this situation,

worried about this situation.

And then you also have the other side of Latin America,

the elites, the oligarchs,

that were actually clapping for this,

and asking, where are we next?

That's the situation in Colombia.

So, the idea of having your president,

Kit-Nap, it goes back to, I don't know,

Panama. That was the last time that we saw something similar.

And at that time, the excuse was, again, drugs.

And this is where I think we see the connection to Colombia

as you were doing during the preface to this question.

The threats to Maluro were under the excuse of drugs,

and drug cartels, and kind of that of the solas,

which now, they're not using that term in court in New York,

because they accept that that doesn't really exist.

So, let's judge him on some other counts.

But this is something that they're also using towards Colombia.

I mean, we've all seen Donald Trump called Gustavo Pedro

basically a drug trafficker.

Literally, he said he's a drug he makes.

He has factories of cocaine in the country.

He brings cocaine to America.

Literally, he brings cocaine.

He has factories.

It's language matters, you know what I'm saying?

When you have no proof, when you have no evidence,

how does that stand before journalists, before the international community?

And the thing is, I'm not going to defend here,

Gustavo Pedro, I'm not going to defend here, Nicolas Maluro.

I'm here to talk about the realities on the ground,

the situation on the ground, and what is an affront to international law,

and what is the real situation.

So, going back to what I said initially, we see news today

of what is taking place with the new president, Delci Rodriguez.

She is right now meeting with the CIA directors in Caracas or the CIA officer in Caracas.

There are apparently some concessions being given to Trump and some oil executives already.

So, we see that there's something going on.

Trump is going to get something out of this, and it was not about drugs.

In that sense, if I connect it back to Colombia very quickly,

we don't have much that America may want, not unlike Venezuela, which is the oil and more

importantly minerals. The whole idea going after Colombia is just noise.

There's no reason why Trump would go for Pedro.

Those are threats that if Trump has consultants and people that he can talk to,

they'll understand that there's nothing he should do or could do in Colombia.

Allow me to explain this. If Trump were to do something similar to Pedro in Colombia,

that automatically would give the presidency to the next left president, which is going to be

Cepera. We have elections in May of this year. The leading politician is Yuan Cepera, who is also

belongs to the same party as Gustavo Pedro. He's leading with 30 percent of the vote

intention so far. So, if he kidnapped Pedro, then that becomes the message for the people

in Colombia. Hey, look at the empire what they're doing. Cepera wins in a landslide.

If he doesn't go after Pedro, then Pedro is going to go out in the popular square and say,

oh, look at me, how strong I am, right? He did it after he talked to Pedro on the phone.

He said, listen what Trump is saying. It is an honor to talk to President Pedro.

So, obviously, he's already selling that as, oh, I'm a strong leader. I'm a strong person.

This is who we are. Both of these moves are going to be beneficial for the presidency of Yuan Cepera.

When you think about what can America do, this really very little they can do. The second

person in those polls is coming a half that it's around 16 percent of the intention of vote.

His name is, I will add a little bit. He's an American citizen, double nationality, dual

nationality, and he made his fortune basically, he's a lawyer and he made his fortune representing

paramilitary and drug dealers in Colombia. For context, Yuan Cepera's father was killed by

paramilitary. So, this, this conflict in Colombia couldn't be any more real and more

heated than this. And the people are tired. The people are tired of the oligarchy that,

I mean, we would have to talk about a very long history to explain the situation in Colombia.

So, why do I speak about countries as the same time? We have a border and that border is a very

complicated border. It's a border. We are one of the few countries, Colombia, that has revolutionary

armies in today's day and age. And that revolutionary army is long, long forgotten. It marks

its ideas or it's, they're not ideologically driven. They're basically the ones who control

the drug cartels. That's what they do. So, in the eastern part of Colombia, the prairies and the

Amazon, that's where all the plantations are and that's what they keep, that's what they guard,

that's where the laboratories are, that's where they process the cocaine. And that cocaine

will go out either the Pacific, the Caribbean, and some of it around Venezuela. Not a whole lot,

because they don't control that other country, but that's where a lot of some of the cocaine

actually leaves these plantations. And when authorities come knocking at the doors, what they do

is they cross the border into Venezuela and that's what the right times to attack Mahoudo and say,

like, oh, you see, you're harvesting, you're giving them protection, you're like, it's a huge

border is a jungle, you can cross into jungle and get protection from that border. And when things

come down, then they'll cross back into Colombia. Interestingly enough, when January 3rd happened,

there was a word that they were going to attack all over the place and they were coming in hot.

So, all the leadership of the revolutionary army crossed the border into Colombia to feel safe.

Once things come down a little bit, they went back into Venezuela. So, it's a very complicated

dynamic. We can explore it in many, many angles and well, I'm here to try to clarify this, this is so

much to talk about. Well, thank you, because, you know, just, we don't, sorry, my, my song is here.

Sorry, my eldest has been pestering me to go to the beach since this morning and I promise him

we will go when it's not sung, it's not too hot and I'd say enough. But kids that can't wait,

you know, like, they have no color samples of future. And it's like, I tell him, let's go

at five o'clock, that means nothing to him. He just wants to go now. Is it five o'clock already?

No, we still have, we still have hour, we still have a couple hours actually.

I think in the article, I mentioned something that's key because analysts and research on the

ground have information that doesn't get out all that much. And the very little that we know,

there's very little sources, but talking to people on the ground, the fact is that America made

this decision because they needed to get rid of these three very important factors that were

present in Colombia at the same time. One was Chinese, Chinese investments and Chinese

influence, both in oil, there's some level of investment in oil, but there's also a lot of

investment in minerals. These are minerals that the Pentagon needs since China is squeezing

these rare earths and who they sell them to and how they use so that they don't want to get them.

Well, these minerals in Venezuela are quite important. These minerals are in a place where

it's a little bit of a lawless exploitation of the minerals, so it's ripe. It's as prime time to go

there and kind of like exploit these minerals for the benefit of the military industrial complex.

There's also Iran. Iran was according to the website from the US Treasury research and paper.

Iran was actually manufacturing and developing some drones with capabilities that could actually

reach the United States. Again, this is the voice of the United States, but this is kind of like a

research that they've done. And there was also some military expertise and training from Russia.

So all these three rivals of the United States completed at one point in Venezuela,

and they deemed the Pentagon that it was time to do something. As I said in the paper,

the oil is just a distraction. The oil is just a cherry on top. The main thing is get rid of

these three rivals influence in Venezuela and Latin America. It actually leads to probably the

next question is what's going to happen next? We're seeing now oil companies moving into Venezuela.

There was a big donor. He donated six million dollars to Trump's election campaign,

and he got dibs on investment in Venezuela. There's many things that need to be determined,

and then all eyes are on Del Sitaro. The league is the president right now, because

she is a chavista. She came from the grassroots of Chavismo, but at the same time she's

on very, very thin ice, meaning that if she doesn't acquiesce to what Trump asks of her,

she'll be in trouble. The violence, the attacks, there's no reason why they wouldn't come back,

right, and do more. And if she does acquiesce, and if she does give Trump what he wants, which

seems to be the way she's going, she's trying to save some kind of face. She's trying to

do it in a subtle way, but then the masses, the population, are going to see her as a sellout,

that she's actually trying to save her skin, or trying to save them as well as her. However,

they wrap it up, however they're presented, it's yet to be seen, but that seems to be the way

that she's going to give Trump what he wants in terms of oil, minerals, and others.

It's very complicated because exploitation of minerals and exploitation of oil is far away from

the cities, and that leaves the question of security wide open. There's a reason why a lot of these

oil investors were saying, like, look, it's uninvestable. Why is it uninvestable? Number one,

the kind of oil that they're talking about is very heavy oil. It doesn't have to use is that you

and I would think automatically when we think of oil is probably good for just asphalt and then

pavement and whatnot. If you wanted to use it as fuel, you would have to mix it. You'd have to

mix it with connect the dot with Iran's sweet oil. If you are able to process and refine this oil

to the level that it can be used as fuel, then there is money to be made and there's a future there.

But in that sense, it's uninvestable as it is. Now, the other aspect is security.

As I was telling you, the revolution army of Colombia goes in and out of Venezuela as

is where their own home. One of the key strategies that they have to destabilize government in

Colombia is to blow up pipelines. They would have no issue given the Americans any trouble either

at the mineral mines or at the oil sites. That's something that Americans are also computing

and calculating because it basically means you need to have security there. You need to have either

American bases, American army men or mercenaries to protect their investments, the same way that

they do it in other parts of the world. But then that's another change in the equation in terms

of security for the region. When you have troops on the ground in a country like Venezuela,

a lot of things change. It's a 180 in terms of security that has all the rival countries

concerned and the neighboring countries quite concerned as well.

Yeah, there's a lot of complication and nuances in this that most people probably,

even not aware of outside of the region. That's why I'm glad I have you here. One thing though,

about the oil is there's also the time horizon of the investment because these oil

infrastructure, they're not going to be set up in few days or even a couple of years. This is

going to be a multi-decade long commitment to put resources in the ground and it will be decades

before they get returned on their investment. This is where business really not ready to commit

to that kind of capital investment unless they have absolute certainty that they're going to be

there long enough for to get their money back. And giving the current, not the political

situation is not only unstable on the Venezuelan side, but it's equally unstable in the United States

because we don't really know what's going to happen after three years after Donald Trump is out of

this. And who knows, Donald Trump might not even stay for three years. And that what then,

you know, there's no way those big oil majors will be able to get,

recoups their investment within three-year timeframe. That's just too short.

And but I did talk to a Venezuelan, Venezuelan-based journalist, Diego Sakerra. He did mention to me

that he think that, you know, there's a rumor that they're going to reopen the U.S. embassy

that he think is probably going to happen. And that goes together with the current acting

president's meeting with the CIA director, looks like they're trying to work out a concession

that will allow Trump to declare to the public that I want, you know, I want bigly. And I got this,

all those winning for America. And it's a tough situation, obviously for people of Venezuela

and the government of Venezuela. But there's really, I think there's a lot of

chatter on the social media. I saw these people are angry that this happened. And after the

anger they're trying to say why didn't China or Russia do more, you know, do more to help in

Venezuela. But I think people kind of overestimate China sometimes. You know, like,

do you order to project military power? Even if China wants to, even to China to project

military power to South America, one of those continents that's furthest away from China on the

globe, you know, like China, California is not closer to China than Venezuela is. I mean,

they're direct flights from China to to cities in U.S. to North America. There's no, as far as

I'm aware, there's not really direct flights in China to South America. It's too far. And if China,

if Chinese Navy can deter U.S. Navy in the Caribbean, that would have meant the Chinese Navy has a

capability to deter U.S. Navy off the coast of California already. Because Venezuela is even further

away than California to China. And like United States, China do not maintain hundreds of

overseas military bases that will keep its military stock and supply. So I mean, even if China has

the intention, you know, I just don't think China has a capability of power projection.

And this is, go ahead. When people have this question, they fail to see

something that you and I understand, but the world out there does not because they're sold the China

threat, they in and they out. China's military is for defense only. The only outpost outside

of the border is in Djibouti because they're wanted. And that's part of the United Nations Blue

Helmets blah, blah, blah. That's that's the only personnel that's outside of their borders.

So to expect China to go out there and expose themselves in a way that's against their own

principles, go back to 1953, right? The five principles of peaceful coexistence is basically

we don't interfere in your affairs. Like we soar about that, but hey, we deal whoever's in charge.

So when when you understand where China comes from in terms of it's it's how China

perceives itself around the world, they have zero intention of going out there and starting

fighting a conflict that it's not in the nature is not the purpose of their military.

Do they have the capability? That's that's a different question, but it's just not the role

of the PLA, it's not the role of the Navy, it's not the role of the Air Force.

And you'll be a good idea if people watching this in the United States begin to understand this.

They're not. All they're there is for defense. A good friend Jerry Gray says something wonderful.

He says all Chinese heroes die defending their mainland, but what about American heroes?

They all die abroad in lands that don't belong to them and taking things that don't belong to them.

That's the difference between Chinese heroes and American heroes. So people asking this question

are a little bit unaware of the nature of China and its its military and its functions.

Do they sell equipment? Most likely do I'll use this and that? Hey, so does the United States.

I have an interesting perspective in terms of Chinese interests.

We see Donald Trump and Marco Rubio and leadership in the United States meeting with Netanyahu.

Just on the night of New Year's Eve, he's a wanted criminal.

Why haven't they done anything about that? We see leadership in the United States meeting with

a new leader of Syria. A person was wanted just a few months ago. So the change of

perception is what America does. Do we see China meeting with emissaries from Syria?

Yes, of course they do. And you ask yourself, but why? Why? Because China deals with whoever is in charge.

They don't go there and metal with your stuff. They don't go and tell you do this, do that.

Whatever happens in your country, okay, hopefully we can do business together. We can have a

relationship after the dust settles. That's China. So you cannot expect China to change who they are

and go out and defend the country on the other end of the world when they let the chips fall

where they fall. And they know that once you go down that path of being the world police,

as America is, there's no turning back. There's no turning back. Even if America wanted to

scale down from their military presence around the world, what is the lecture? What is the reading?

What does that say to the world? They can't. They just can't. The same way that they are exposed

with the dollar being used as the trade currency of the world. They can't walk away from that.

That's why you don't see a bridge currency. It's such a smart, moderate and pragmatic approach

to international relations. They won't do things that are not conducive to your objectives of

fortifying China and fortifying the global south. And that direct confrontation is not

is counter to that. Yeah, and people seem to forget about the Cuban missile crisis. I mean,

back in the Cold War, when Soviet decided to place missiles on Cuba, United States threatened

to threaten nuclear war. I mean, that almost led to a nuclear exchange. They would US would blow

up the world if someone to place missiles in places like Cuba or Venezuela. I don't know if it's

because it's too far down the main memory lane. But that's a fact that the US would try to

blow up the world. That race is a very important question, Carl, because we know why they don't touch

North Korea. We know why they don't touch it. Should we be looking at other countries

militarizing and having nukes? Should we start this path? And the answer is obviously no. I don't

think that that is the path. But it does beg the question. They'll never touch North Korea and they

know why. But countries that don't have the capacity to defend themselves, countries that are

split from within by design, don't have the capabilities to defend themselves. And in that sense,

I would like to get back to the oligarchs, the elites, the society that is split in most of Latin

American countries from Mexico all the way down to Argentina. There is always a right-wing elite

that benefited from their relationship with the United States. Be a bribes, be a contract, be a

favorable export treaties, etc., etc., etc. So there are sides in our countries that

are keen to have good relationships with the United States. Even in Venezuela, there are people

like, okay, if they remove sanctions, maybe this is a good thing. Maybe he had to go.

You know what I mean? There's people who think like, okay, if this is the price to pay,

this is the price to pay. Maduro had to go, okay, Maduro had to go. Maybe we have a chance now.

So you can understand how some people on the ground could think that way. But there's also

a vast majority of people who have been sold out by those oligarchs, sold out by those elites

that will not accept that they are actually the kind of father that will fight for the sovereignty

of their countries. We have them in Colombia, we have them in Venezuela, we have them in Mexico.

There are forces fighting for the sovereignty of the countries.

And for years and years and years, this Don Romoctrine, this Monroe Doctrine has been reinvented and

reinvented and it has different colors and different flavors. And is what has led to

Venezuela shaking up with Hugo Chavez and saying, that's it, you guys are out,

expropriate, expropriate, expropriate and try to regain some sovereignty.

So this explains why you will find loud voices applauding and clapping and celebrating what happened

in Venezuela. And you have voices in my country, for example, that are actually inviting

Americans to invade us. They want to remove Gustavo Pedro at any cost, elections are going to

a couple of months, probably does not going to happen as I explained it already. But for months, for

months, there have been presidential candidates calling for America to invade us. What do you know

what I'm saying? So that's the reality on the ground. You have these two forces colliding constantly

permanently, the left and the right, reds and blues going at each other. And in the end,

the one that loses is the people. The one that loses is the guys who are caught in the middle.

In our countries, via violence, in our countries via corruption. So a shake up like what Chavez did in

Venezuela with all the struggles that it brought about is one option, is one option for a lot of

countries. It's one option that we have come May 2026 in Colombia when we go to the election

boots and choose our next leader. The main thing is when you analyze, when you ask the question,

who has a chance to win in Colombia? Because we've had a wave of right-wing presidents winning in

Latin America from Chile a few years ago. But then it was Chile, then it was Bolivia, then it was

Ecuador, Honduras. There's been a wave of right-wing presidents that have won over the last

year or so. And our elections are coming in a couple of months. There is no chance that the right

will win. And I'll tell you why. Pedro has been doing a couple of things that are kind of

ensuring that Iván Cepeda is going to win. Same party, as I said before. Number one, he redistributed

land. So he took land from drug dealers, drug traffickers, he took land from paramilitary,

he sent them to court and then redistributed to farmers. Just gave land to farmers. That's millions

and millions of farmers that are indebted to Pedro. That love him to the end because now they are

landowners. The other thing that he did recently was that he increased the minimum wage by 23%.

Wow. You've got to consider that inflation last year was 5%. So the minimum wage goes 23.

Inflation is 5. And this was done by decree. So he didn't fall the proper norms of the country.

So that's going to be used again, Pedro, in the future. But we talk about that in a second.

What does that do? Well, about 15% of the workforce in Colombia earns a minimum wage. That's about

10 million people. Now, sorry, not 10 million, about 5 million people. That's 5 million votes already.

Those people, who are they going to vote? When this president is giving you more money

and their families, whoever is eligible to vote. So he's done a couple of things that are pretty

significant for your populist, if we're being honest. And the last thing that he did, Pedro, is that

he eliminated toll fees. You don't have to pay toll fees anymore. This was like a couple of days ago,

a couple of weeks ago. So all the farmers and all the transportation professionals,

they are now getting more money in the pockets. So again, that's another millions and millions of

people who he is winning hearts by doing these kinds of things. So you can see which way

the water is flowing. Cepeda is very likely going to be the next president of Colombia.

And what is the next move? Talking to experts and researchers on the ground,

what they expect is a campaign similar to what happened to Ouro, illegitimate. Just say that

the elections were stolen, illegitimate, and that's the campaign that starts on maybe removal,

at some point is in the cards, who knows. But you can see that that's probably what's going to

happen because to have another left-leaning president in Colombia, a country that has coast

over the Pacific and the Atlantic, such an important geographical position. And some resources

that might be of interest to some companies in the US. I don't think they can have it. I don't

think that they want to have it. They need to have that win as well, even if it's just an

ideological win, not necessarily an economic win. But ideologically, they would want to

prevent more left-leaning presidencies on the ground, more populist measures taking place.

Because then the right will never get back in power, at least in Colombia.

Yeah, I mean, that's what US has been trying to do in Latin America forever, actually, trying to

foreclose the other option, as you mentioned. This is why wave of regime change

that took place. Most people vividly remember is what happened to Agenda in Chile.

But there's a lot more. The funny thing is, it's not even the left-wing government that's

being prone to regime change. You have no reagan. Nobody is a co-cusing no reagan,

the finger left-wing president. I mean, they went after him anyway.

There is a difference, though, because you didn't mention the operation in Panama.

I think that was around the time I just came to the United States, I think.

So, I recall this vividly. In Panama, that was actually a growing invasion.

I mean, US military went in full force. What happened in Venezuela is a little bit different.

Right now, they're doing economic embargo. They're seizing all the oil tankers that's coming in

and now in Venezuela, trying to force the economic collapse to put up additional pressure

on the Venezuelan government. Then they did the kidnapping of Maduro, which is like very Hollywood,

you know, like, oh, wow, we had this awesome US military doing this big, successful operation.

First, they claim nobody was killed. That's what their first claim. They say nobody was killed.

And then now, news comes out, actually, 32 Cuban bodyguards of Maduro actually did die trying

to defend Maduro. So, you know, there were millions of military that were killed.

And then, sorry, if I caught your adrenal thought, but it just brings back another idea

when I said it was too easy. It was too easy. So, Trump is in this celebratory mode

and thinking, am I as well doing somewhere else? I mean, if it was so easy, just do it somewhere else.

They have the sites on Greenland. They have the sites on Cuba. You have members of Congress

telling chain-bound in Mexico, you're next. Same way that they say that to Pedro.

So, is this this whip that we hear all around Latin America and the weeping could continue.

The weeping could hit Cuba, Mexico. I mean, who knows who's next? So, in that sense, that idea that

Pedro floated out there of the Gran Colombia to unite several countries in what was the

Bolivarian dream of the Gran Colombia, not necessarily as one country, but as a union, like the European

Union, for example, not necessarily again with a unique currency, but at least in terms of sovereignty

and in terms of some kind of cooperation, some kind of solidarity that makes them less, makes us

the territories less weak before the United States harder to take on. So, that's an idea that was

floated. God knows where that's going to go, but something has to be done because we are the mercy.

We are again, we can be whipped any minute and we have, we're not North Korea.

Yeah, I mean, Gran Colombia might be what's needed, but I think US would definitely be

very that set against it because United States was the one that set for the Panama for Colombia

in the first place. 1903, yes, 1903. I was part of the Monroe, an amendment to the Monroe

doctrine. Yeah, then there's no way United States would allow, you know, like a very strategic

country like Panama to attach itself with a very strategic country like Venezuela and then

at that to Colombia, you know, like these are, this, you got the crown of South America right there.

And that will, I mean, that will definitely, these countries combined together definitely have to

collect a more bargaining power vis-a-vis United States. That's exactly why US would like to prevent

it from happening. The question that I asked in an interview that I was doing with CGTN was

listen, the leaders and the presidents and the governments of the countries of this Gran

Colombia idea need to answer the question. Where do they stand when America said this is our hemisphere?

What answer do you give to that question, to that statement? How do you respond? Where do you stand

on that? Do you agree that we are America's backyard? How does that sit with you? For a lot of

countries, they think it's fine. For other countries, no. And getting back to the question about why

China couldn't do more? I sometimes ask myself this question more, but not militarily,

but in terms of influence. And how do you get influence? Well, actually changing the lives of

people on the ground. There's tons of projects that China has all over Latin America from the

Port in Shanghai in Peru. That is an automated port working 24 hours a day. Wonderful direct

line of trade between Shanghai and Peru and the plans to build that railroad into Brazil

crossing the Andes. It would be a wonderful thing, but if China were to do more, then

hearts would change faster. It's so easy to walk the streets of Caracas. It's so easy to walk

the streets of Mexico City or Bolota. And here people are communist, the communist, the communist.

Like they hate China with no particular reason. That's just what they've been brainwashed to

believe. So if China does more to improve the lives of our people, via investment, via

cooperation, et cetera, et cetera, then you would have more people actually comparing and coming

to understand the difference between getting whipped or getting helped. It's so easy. China now is

building highways as being building ports as built. I'm talking about Colombia. There's a new

port called Puerto Antoquia in the Pacific. There's talks of a cargo railroad from, but when I

went to the Pacific to Santa Marta in the Caribbean, there's just so much that can be done. They're

building our first metro in the capital city of Bogota. China is doing quite a lot of work

in Colombia. And that's how you gain influence. It's slow. It takes a lot of convincing and the

situation for a lot of politicians back home is difficult to maneuver. They don't have too much

maneuverability or too much space. Only last year did Colombia join a sign, the BRI, to accept

some BRI projects. President came to Beijing, he signed, and now we are an official member of the BRI.

So that's the thing. When people say China could have done more, I kind of feel like,

yes, there's so much more that we can do. Education like exchanges, man. We're so much in need of

exchanges. For example, the technicians just to give you an idea. The technicians that are going to

control, run, operate, and maintain the subway in Bogota. They're studying asian. They speak

better Chinese than me and you right now. For those of you who don't know,

Xian is the place where you go to study how to handle subway. Xian has a very complicated subway

system. Because whenever they dig a tunnel, they find some kind of tomb or some kind of relic. Oh,

goddammit. Now we need to protect it. Redesign. Go back to the drawing board. So they have

this ability to be flexible, to think on the feet, and to find solutions, technical solutions,

that actually that is where people go to study when they want to build subways in their countries.

So there's dozens of technicians from Colombia, in Xian, studying and learning, and going back to

bring this know-how to the country. We need that times 100 in more countries in Latin America.

And then those hearts begin to change. And then those minds begin to change. It's the way

militarily. Forget it. Whoever is listening, who we were asking that question, China is not going

to do it. Non-interference. That's China's thing. Yeah, I agree. And I think I'm fairly optimistic

about the future cooperation between China and Latin America, because fundamentally China and

Latin America have compatible economies. China is a big commodity consumer, and Latin America is

a big commodity producer. And this actually goes back to the US intervention in the

Venezuela. A lot of the thing doesn't actually make sense, because if you think about it,

US is actually an oil producer, just as Venezuela is. Currently, US is the exporter of oil.

It does not need the Venezuelan oil, which as you mentioned, it's harder to process. Actually,

it's a higher production cost, because we need all these steps of refining to actually make

it usable as fuel. So this is, I think a lot of this is maybe just conceiving Trump's

own head. You think, oh, you just read, oh, Venezuela has the world's largest reserve of oil.

We must get our hands on that oil. We can't have the Chinese get their hands on that oil.

But when he didn't meet with oil executives, they did paint a different picture for him. So which

brings me thinking, why didn't they have a consultation before this? You know, you think you should

have consulted with oil majors before you go and grab more oil. Because it's not about the oil,

as I said, it's not about the oil, as I said, in my article in China Daily, maybe we can post it

in the description of the video. It was not about the oil, it was about the presence of these

three very important countries in Venezuela doing things together that the Pentagon simply did not

like. It was not about the drugs either. I mean, everybody saw this salami slicing of

violation of international law, just blowing up speedboats full of cocaine or not. It doesn't

matter, but that those are extrajudicial killings and the international community, just look at the

other way. I post related an interesting question that didn't go too far in Chinese media, but

if it's okay for the United States to kill and bomb and blow up speedboats that are bringing

drugs, because they're going to kill Americans, do you reckon that China is within its rights

to blow up ships and boats and whatever that is going to bring weapons to Taiwan

that are going to kill Chinese people at some point. That's the only reason they're in Taiwan.

6767, you know, like if that's okay, then this is also okay. If that's okay, this is also okay.

Of course, that's immoral, that's that's that's the range behavior, but then it does make you think.

That wasn't about drug, you know, it wasn't about the democracy. Correct.

I mean, if it if it was not about drugs, if it was not about freedom, if it was not about democracy,

because regime change didn't really happen. And if it wasn't really about the oil, what was it about?

This is the thing that you know, you mentioned that the U.S. is now creating a president. This is what I

said when the U.S. was doing its freedom of navigation patrol in South China. See, I say, well, I mean,

just wait until China has built enough ships, you know, I look forward to the freedom of navigation

patrol off the coast of California. Well, right now, China and Russia, now they're conducting joint

exercises off the coast of Alaska, you know, they're so what I think eventually, you know, U.S.

do need some kind of pushback, especially in leader like Trump, you know, Trump is basically acting

like a bully. He he will push and push if he says weakness, he will push further, you know, like

this is what I just can't respect the European leadership because they thought they will get

on the good side of Trump if they just do what the U.S. acts to. Even though much of the U.S.

you you leadership absolutely despise Trump, yet they are totally bending themselves backwards.

You just passed a resolution that they're going to ban Chinese components in critical infrastructure

in Europe. And this came out just before Trump's announcement that he's going to slap additional

10% here on a bunch of European countries. The deal with Greenland is not reached and he will

increase the tear to 25%. It's because Trump is a bully. To deal with a bully, you have to stand

up to them and make them back down. And that's what happened during the trade war when China says,

no, and then the Trump changes to him. Now he says, oh, she is my very good friend of mine.

And I think on the issue of Latin America cooperation, I'm optimistic because I see

currently the Chinese economy is far more, far more complementary with Latin American

countries than United States is because for decades, U.S. was a source of capital investment

in Latin America. But United States don't even do that anymore. Like, the U.S. has been

outcompeted in terms of investment, in terms of investment, in terms of investment

infrastructure, in terms of even people to people exchange, I would argue. Because U.S. right now,

the only thing that can compete is military intervention. The only thing that could offer is

military intervention, regime change, whereas China is offering what everyone else wants,

which is development. So I think this is why I'm more optimistic over long term. There will be

setbacks. There will be U.S. intervention in the meantime, but over a long time horizon,

I think the China and Latin America won't move close. I mean, you just have Scott Cardi,

the PM of Canada, just visited China, an angle country, an angle of five, I country, no less.

Another strategic alliance. Yeah, this is what the Trump policy is

resounding in. It's driving more and more people away from the United States. U.S. empire

is sustained by its so-called alliances. Right now, Trump is completely stomping on that.

And I think this is why I'm still cautiously optimistic over long term.

What makes me very optimistic is understanding that in Spanish, for those of you who are

interested in this topic, we call it Batalas de Ocado, or the last cakes of a drowning man. That's

what this feels like. You can see the de-dollarization really ramping up, picking up speed.

Basically, this grab of oil in Venezuela, again, not the main objective, but

one possible breather for the petrodollar. It's what we're seeing. We're seeing the U.S.

losing influence. What we are way behind, unfortunately, is on self-power.

We are, you and I, pretty much, on Western social media. We can be shut down any minute.

We are on YouTube trying to tell a story. You get to big, you get shut down, you're too small,

nobody watches you to downthrottle you. So there's a digital environment outside of the control

of the United States that needs to be globalized, that needs to be embraced by the global

south. And China has it all. China has it all. China has WeChat, China has Doin, Xiao Hongshu,

China has all these things that just need to be flipped to an international community.

And then we're playing to billions of people on a ground that they do not control.

Well, they already did with the TikTok. We were lacking.

Yeah, they already did that with TikTok. That's why U.S., that's why U.S. went after TikTok because they

realized, oh, wow, wow, there's a tool that we do not have complete control over. Got to

cross that. We have to own that. But yeah, if you and I were able to speak to African countries,

if you and I were able to speak to Southeast Asian countries on platforms that are not controlled

by the U.S., it will be wonderful because then that misinformation and that thumb on the scale,

it would not be present. That's where I think there's so much more ground to cover. And it connects

to digital sovereignty, to cyber sovereignty, the issues with Starlink in Iran.

And it's so complex and it's so, so green still that this country's in the global south haven't

actually awakened to the necessity of creating something, some sort of alternative.

And China is ready to lead in that department with social media, with platforms, with AI.

An AI that is not the ring-tearing form of AI. You can exploit it and model it whichever way you want.

And it's free open source. So there's so much to do in self-power, if you know what I'm saying.

I don't know when we'll be there yet, when we'll get there, at what point should we just start

having these kind of conversations and broadcasts in other platforms. But for the time being,

we're here. And whatever we say, don't say, it's at the mercy of some algorithm on some guy on a

desk in Montecito or whatever. Well, I feel I can talk to you forever, Fernando.

And we can just talk about anything. And there's so many fascination, fascinating topic,

you know, like a lot of the stuff that you talk about just happened to be my interest as well.

So I look forward to have you back to my show. Thank you so very much.

Thank you for making your time to speak to my audience. If people want to follow you on

social media or elsewhere, where would they go? You can follow me on media without means here on

YouTube. Media without means also, well, in on X is medios, scene medios, which is in Spanish,

but media without means is fine. It's also a website. Media without means.org. So hope to see you

over there with some of the content that I put over there. Yeah, people give Fernando a like and

that follow and leave your comment below to tell us what do you think about our discussion,

you know, about China, about Latin America, Venezuela, Colombia, and United States.

And thanks everyone for tuning in. Until next time. Bye. Bye. Bye.