The Single Pivot Swing -- Ben Hogan's Secret Revealed with Tony Manzoni (RIP)

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Hey, this is Fred Green, host of the Golf Smarter Podcast.

Over the next few weeks from the Golf Smarter Archives,

we're going to feature all of our conversations with Tony Manzoni.

Tony was an amazing golf instructor who passed away in 2018.

We first met him in 2010, and every time he was featured on the podcast with us,

emails flooded in from golfers around the world

with more positive feedback than any other teacher we've featured in 20 years.

So, unless you're new to Golf Smarter,

or didn't play at College of the Desert anytime between the 1980s to the 2000s,

you've probably never heard of Tony,

because we continue to be the only media outlet to pay attention to his teachings.

We've been replaying these episodes for the last few years,

and I still get emails today reporting on how well you've connected

and improved using Tony's teaching methods.

Tony's book, The Lost Fundamental, One Simple Move, Better Golf Forever,

which was out of print when he passed away,

is once again available on Amazon, including the Kindle format.

Tony's video of the same name was also out of circulation when he passed,

but can now be seen online.

If you'd like to gain access, please write to me directly by clicking on the

Hey Fred button at golfsmarter.com.

To find out more about Tony, please visit golfsmarter.com

and click on the Tony Man's Only tab at the top of the page.

We hope you enjoy the journey and know that even if you've heard these episodes before,

you're going to learn something new.

Thanks so much for your continued support and enjoy.

The single Pivot Swing, then Hogan's Secret Reveal.

This is Golf Smarter.

Sharing tips and insights from golfers and golf professionals

to help lower your score.

It's worked for your host, Fred Green.

Welcome and thanks for downloading the Golf Smarter podcast.

Our guest today is Tony Manzoni, a very interesting man with a fascinating career that includes

tour player, instructor, college coach, contributing author and co-founder of Callaway,

impressive.

He'll provide us with all the details on that, but most interestingly of all,

based on years of research and modifications, he's unleashed the single Pivot Swing,

which may be the secret to Ben Hogan's amazing ball striking ability.

Let's find out more, shall we?

Welcome to the Golf Smarter podcast, Tony.

Hi Fred, how are you doing today?

I'm doing well. Thank you so much for joining us.

You've got an illustrious history in the golf world and I'm really intrigued about talking to you

about where you started and where you are today.

You really have done a lot of different things in golf, haven't you?

Well, I have. I started my career in the Chicago area, well,

near Chicago, in Wisconsin, about 50 miles from Chicago at an innocent country club and I

kind of made my bones there and went into the service, came back and worked at Alamed End Country Club

in San Jose where I lived and from that point, Ken Venturi, who I knew very well.

Do I, you're talking Alamed End, Alamed End Country Club in Northern California?

Yes.

And to say, okay, that Alamed End, because all of a sudden you're in Wisconsin and now you're in San Jose.

Yeah, well, I moved to California, moved to San Jose because I was Chicago born and got a

job at Alamed End and played pretty good golf. In turn, professional obviously made some good

scores. I think I still have the record there at 61 at Alamed End. Met Ken Venturi played in a

few events with him. He talked me into coming into the desert, the Palm Desert area.

There was a new golf course called Mission Hills opening up and I worked for Ken as the head

professional. He was director of golf, but primarily he was with CBS, so we saw him once a month.

During that period of time, I got an idea because I was training a lot of LPGA gals and one of

them was Sally Little. And I got an idea about playing a mixed team championship where we wanted to

play men against women giving the ladies a distance margin. As it turned out, it turned off to be

the mixed team championship. JC Penney's was the group that one of my try and say that they

sponsored it. And that was for about 16 years on ABC. And from that point in time, I was very

interested in golf club design and I got together with a fellow by the name of Richard Ferrenti

and Dick Delacruz and we started a company called Hickory Stick and we were selling a lot of clubs

but we didn't have the capital to cover the orders. A fellow by the name of Edie Calloway was a member

at the vintage where I had sold a 130 for one of their golf expos there and he liked the club.

I made a call call to him and talked him into investing at the company which he did and my

family. Wow, that's like the best call you ever made. Best call. Yeah. Oh my God.

One of the great cold calls of all time. Exactly. Oh my God. I wish it was that easy.

I talked him into putting his name on the, we started out as Calloway Hickory Stick Golf Club and

then it went from Calloway Hickory Stick to Calloway Golf and the company ended up settling in

the Carlsbad area which is the heartbeat of all the golf club companies. And from then we went

public and during that period of time I decided I wanted to go in a little different direction.

So I had a hunk of money. I didn't want to retire and when I heard that the college of the

desert was thinking about a golf academy and they had about a 25 acre piece of land and no funding.

So through friends of mine and the help of Greg Norman and a few people that I knew in the

industry we built a golf driving range of building in the classroom and it houses a golf

management program. And I had intended to do this for two or three years get it started and let it

flourish and crazy part about it this is my 25th year. I became the golf coach of college of the

desert which has been probably one of the most satisfying things I've ever done in golf.

And I mean I'm talking Calloway and mixed team championship and all that but to work with these

young kids and it's changed the direction in their life off the golf course. He's been the most

rewarding thing and it's what keeps me going. Just being around these kids and we have a great record.

We won our conference championship 23 years in a row and we won state championship four times

under my tutelage and so that you know it's all good it's all real good and during that period of

time my passion is teaching golf. I played at a decent level. I had my moments in golf but I really

was too interested in going out at night and chasing skirts and making a few pairs and I pass

that out of my students. I said I wasted a pretty good opportunity so I used some of the some of the

faults in my own life as examples of what not to do but golf has always been my passion in instruction.

There's nothing like helping somebody with the golf game and seeing them play much better golf.

That's that's way for me it's worth more than the money that you get get for doing it.

I'm a little bit shocked and stunned, dismayed here. You mean the path to enlightenment and happiness

is not lower scores? It's teaching? It's sharing your knowledge with the teachers. It really for me it

is. I mean I'm sure that there are other people that won't agree with that but for me it's been

I thought if we just hit lower scores we're just going to be happy forever.

Well I'll tell you even when I shot 61 I still blurted out and I didn't birdie a par five.

I so much to come along and slap me in the head that time. That's just the mindset of all of us

when we play golf we always think we could have done better. Anyway I started studying Ben Hogan

because in my mind I don't think anyone's ever controlled the ball like Ben Hogan.

In the past or in the present there's no I mean these guys he could give strokes the most of

these guys when it comes to pure ball striking. I don't mean scoring. I don't mean putting but I mean

hitting the ball from T to green and a wave of change has occurred in the golf and teaching of golf

at one time one of the commonalities of what you saw of a really good player was his head didn't move

and then pretty soon people start saying it's okay for your head to move and he can go anywhere

it wants to go. Well your head is there's a center point in the golfer when you set to the ball

you center yourself to it and if you move off the ball you've got to move back on it. So there's

a lot of compensations occurring and also I was brought up in the era where you fan the club open

and close it so you you square the club head with the rotation and the arms but in watching Hogan

especially in his later years and he didn't really make a lot of film available for people to see

I read all his books but nothing in his books said what he did in my estimation maybe grip and so

but he played off the left side he played off a one axis there's two axis points in the swing

left leg right leg in moving to the right leg you have to make some kind of a lateral move back

to the left leg and then rotate around the left leg and that transitional move is where all the

problems happen in golf swing and also if you're rolling your arms or crossing your arms over

the club is going to be open a long time close a long time and square for just a moment

and the more you practice the closer you can get to square more often but there's still a lot

of error involved in that swing and you can look at all the arms swingers I can name you

Phil Mikkelson I can name you Tiger Woods and I can name you Dustin Johnson these are

known names and they hit the heck out of the ball but they can hit it anywhere in the world and

I mean they can hit it two fairways right you never saw that in in a Hogan zero okay part of that

moving off the ball the second part is that Hogan learned the square of the golf club with his

body rotation so we connected the arm as you took it back across the chest and then rotated

the body to square it now the club has stayed square for a real long time and there is that's to

me is the secret of hitting the ball properly you use you put very little side spin on the ball so

you shot this person you're always going to push it you're always going to pull it that's just

golf but you you won't pull it with a hook or or side spin you won't push it with a slice so

your dispersion gets very narrow and by rotating your body instead of tilting down and under

where you that's where all the spine problems and back problems happen when you rotate your body

you can rotate to where you're right right shoulder points of the target and your chest is left

the target now I have an 86 year old man that I teach I've got a lot of people from the vintage

and elder ought to which are really fine clothes probably the best in the desert and they come to me

for golf instruction because they like when I'm teaching and they can hit the ball more solid more

often because again we don't have any compensations in the motion we we brace up against the left side

rotate the body and rotate back the other way don't have to make a lateral move don't have to turn

the hands over in time anything we just rotate the body we trap the club on the left arm on the

chest so it's a really easy way to play well during this period al barco an unnoted writer

interviewed me and you know I'm you know I'm nobody I'm a guy at a driving range oh he's not really

but well he liked what I had to say and he put about an eight-pager in golf illustrated magazine

and the response was overwhelming I got calls from all over about people wanting telling me

well I was trying stack until I couldn't do that and this really helped me in my back doesn't hurt

and blah blah blah I talked with an editor of golf illustrated and he said would you like to

have a golf illustrator single pivot golf school and that's what's going to happen in December

college of the desert I've got Al Guyberger who has followed this process likes that it teaches

now in place this way I got his son Brian who's a very very fine player a good instructor from

Canada by the name of Mike Lyons and myself and we're going to put together a hell of a golf

school and when people walk out of that school they're going to know why they hit it right hit it

left and when the ball spins will know exactly they'll know a simple move to stop it from spinning

and they're going to be able to hit the ball farther than they've had they've done in their life

and I don't care if they're a young player thinking about the tour or old guy that's played and he

can't get off his right side anymore he spins out and slices everything will fix all that in this

and it's not complicated I've never believed that the golf swing was rocket science but I did know

that Ben Hogan do something that other people didn't and he divulged this in other in subsequent

books where he made phrases he said well I'm going to play off my left side for now on

Lee Trevino said to me I've never seen anybody play good off their right side but I said a lot of

great players play off their left side but when he made that statement to me I had no idea what

he was talking about I never realized because I you know you never stop learning in this game this

is a school you never graduate from because there's always tweaking there's always things that you

you can glean from other players other teachers and so forth so I I do know one thing Tiger Woods

is now being taught to play off the left side Watney just said on television in the last tournament

I had a great tip I set up with 70 percent on my left side they're all getting back to staying

centered to the golf ball it's just it it's just too hard when you're moving that club as fast

as these young people are moving it it's too hard to time it with your hands and arms you've got

to trap it so that you can turn through it and eliminate the left side and that's what this does

I can tell you that I don't care who it is that's wild with a driver 15 minutes with them if they're

especially if they're a good player a tour player let's say 15 minutes to learn this process they

can hit as hard as they want not hit left so it's very exciting and it's going to be really worthwhile

well that was an all-encompassing answer you answered every single question that I didn't even

get to ask in your first answer I can go into detail more than that but that's what I want to do

I'm gonna want to go into details but I do need to break for just a moment because

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Tony thanks so much for waiting and let's get back to I don't even know where to go

here I do wanted to ask you about working at the college of the desert before we go back into

your your golf school and then of course the single pivot swing but is the the college of the

desert do you cover more than just golf instruction I mean there's so many kids today who who may

not be good enough to you know get up to the tour but they love golf so much that they would

like to be involved in the golf industry does your program facilitate that absolutely we have

a golf management program and we we take this kids through a turf grass management golf shop

operations methods of teaching golf fundamentals and rules of golf public speaking marketing

classes you know it has a business aspect to it it has a general education aspect to it and then

it has core training aspect to it which is the core core core courses like golf shop operations

or methods of teaching golf so when a student comes out of this to your program with an AA degree

they they can get into the industry and they get into middle management very quickly for instance

in this valley I've got nine head professionals that have come out of this program one of my one

students has been in China for 15 years and in fact I'm leaving the 18th of next month to go to

China because we're going to create a linkage of Chinese students coming to college of the

desert and taking accelerated programs and at the same time they're interested in maybe

we setting up some golf schools in China so I'm very excited about that but the college program

is really a terrific program you know the PGA of America has these IGM programs and there are

it's a five year commitment I kind of like what we do and what the San Diego career colleges do

you get in and get out two years and and you you certainly have you're not going to be an expert

and no one is coming out of these programs because you have to have the hands on but that two

year commitment you can get right out into industry and and get going. You have a golf team as well

oh we have a great golf team we have a great golf team I've been coached for

I believe it's now going on 19 years and we won our conference every year the previous coach

was a terrific coach we had we had one at a few more years we're at the 23rd year in a row right now

and under my coaching I've won four state championships in a number of what they call

regional tournaments it's been it's been just great working with young people first of all

they all hit it over 300 yards it's it's it's crazy I mean I feel like putting on a calf

of the dress when I play with the boys so I finally said oh if I'm now on I'm up in the uptees

I swallowed my pride because at one time I could pop it pretty far but it's just crazy how far

they hit it now and but the problem is is that they can hit it anywhere far and so we try to get

them to understand how they have to manage themselves on the golf course and of course anger is one

of the things that comes along with the game and you have to have a little flyer in your belly

to be a competitor obviously but you can't let it affect you to the point where it affects

your next group of shots and I being Italian struggled with that come into the last week

but but anyway I mean you would have shot a 60 that day but I do try to to talk to the boys you

know in all honesty these are the things you can't do and can't do it you don't understand

that you're also disrupt other people when you're angry at yourself it makes people uncomfortable

around you and it's not what the game is supposed to be but it's gotten to the point where there's

so much so much money now and and and all of that all that fame that's attached to it that I

think we we've lost a little bit in the transition from the from the days when guys jumped in until

Loppy and drove from tournament to tournament didn't make enough money to to stay on tour they had

to go and take club jobs but there was something really something really pure about that period now

well also in that period the amateur status was very was looked upon much differently than it is

even if yeah even if you have an amateur status today I mean does that even exist

well I guess it would for college players but you know right you're right yeah I mean there

is but I I think that a lot of people just like in other sports they kind of get around it a bit

but anyway that's that the college program is it really is the reason I'm here more than

anything else so we've heard about stack until we've heard about single plane and and dual plane

swings now you want to talk about these single pivot swing well there's just it you know it's

back until I I don't I'm not going to say that they're wrong it's just a different a different way

of looking at it I'm I'm based in everything I'm talking about on what I believe

who was the best golfer and that was Ben Hogan and Ben Hogan this later years played off his

left side and that just really means that he eliminated the lateral move in the golf swing

he mean I need I need I'm sorry to interrupt but I do need a better understanding better

explanation of what you mean by playing off the left side and I'm standing up right now so okay

when you set up to the golf ball instead of setting up 50 50 or even 50 being a 40 being a

left side and and and 60 being the right like a lot of people really tilt to the right when

they're going to hear the driver because because they've been told if they hang back like that they

can work under and catch the ball on the upswing and and and and that's true in if you're going

to rotate your hands and arms but Hogan's based up a little left now he did a little differently

than I teach when he took the club back it looked like he was going to move to the right but as

he as the club went back in his rotation he set up against the left side and I've got the

zillion picture showing that and he set up against the left side because now he's against

impact and all the institutes rotate his body you don't lose any power trust me in fact you gain

power and more importantly because you can catch the ball dead square again you're not moving

away from the golf ball in the backswing so it's it's nothing new it was done for years by a lot

of players it just wasn't talked about and I think a lot of people misinterpret doing it this

aren't you reversing your weight shift aren't you and and that's the farthest thing from the truth

the reverse of the weight shift is when you stand up you stand up for the ball and your hips

light underneath you and your hips go go to the right and your head is to the left and then on

the down swing your head goes back and your and your hips go forward and you're on the right foot

that's how the reversing the weight shift but staying off the staying on one axis and then working

around that axis is a far cry from that and it's I can tell you there's a lot of naysayers until

I have 10 minutes with them and then they that I that I own them yeah yeah once you once you can

show them and put the club in their hand and work with them directly I'm sure you have much

different result and just trying to explain it without the visual yeah and it's not old man this

is not an old man's thing I've got I've got a couple of 15-year-olds that are shooting in the 60s

and and they they beat that ball over 300 yards at 15 years old and they and they they look at me

I got one Korean boy and every time he hits me he looks at me just coach no side spin and I just

get a big kick out of that you know it it's it's it's my passion as you can tell I talk too much

about it too fast about it but I can't even take notes you're talking so fast yeah I can't help

myself it's because I'm excited about this is clear it is it is a breakthrough and there's no

question about it fabulous and now for for the school how many days is this school that you're

going to be putting on for your uh they'll only be they'll only be a it'll be a one or two day

school each day six hours of instruction so it'll be a one day Saturday school and a one day

Sunday school so a person can come to both day both schools if they if they need to be but to be

honest with you uh if we have you for six hours uh you're going to be able to do it and you're

going to be understand why you do it we're we're going to teach you cause and effect uh and that's

very important for for someone and I can promise you that I I will not have anyone that won't be

swinging the and we'll prove it we're going to film you in the beginning and film you in the end

you're going to see a tremendous change in your setup position and the way you finish most people

never get to their left side because it's too far on the right side to ever get there and we'll

get you through the golf ball and we won't we're not going to say to you shift your weight we're

going to show you how to rotate your body and that's going to make your weight shift and you're

going to be in really good balance and you're going to hit the ball hard for the first time in a while

Tyler Reddick here from 2311 Racing victory lane yeah it's even better with Chumba by my side

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ctnc's 21 plus sponsored by chumba casino you know the thing about a golf school that I've had

difficulty with is that say you get it one day of instruction or two days at best of instruction

or three or four and you go through it and you're like okay I got it yeah I understand what I'm

doing now and then you go home and you don't get a chance now that you've played three days in a row

you've got to catch up back with your life and your work and you don't get a chance to play for

three weeks and you don't get a chance to practice for two weeks whatever and you go out there and all

of a sudden it's all gone it's it's like now what did they teach me again and I find that to be a

difficult part about golf schools that you know if I'm coming across the country go to your school

I'm going to lose all this stuff how do I retain it what kind of follow up do you have to help

somebody if they're like okay so I went to your school and I got it it was great but now I need some

help everyone is going to get a book it is going to get a book called the Lost Fundamental

which I've written and it will be out before the school starts and it's a complete explanation

also they will be able to talk to us via via email and we can we can actually if they tell us

what the balls are we can tell them what they're doing but we're not basing our instruction on timing

and that's a key that's a key issue we're not basing that instruction on you going out and

hitting 400 balls a day we're basing it on body position if we can show you where your body

should be on the backswing and on the through swing the rest of it is pretty easy once once you

connect your arms or keep your arms connected the body and of course they're connected I mean

it sounds almost insane to say that but but connection in the golf thing is different than the

body being attached to the arm being attached to the body once we show them how connection

occurs and it's a very very simple explanation within exercise they can do it almost instantly

and you will be able to tell by what the ball does if you're connected or disconnected it there

is no question about that in fact a good instructor can turn us back to the student and watch

ball flight and he can tell you physically what you did it it is so simple so what the golf

our school will be is that this explanation over and over and over for six hours and when you're

when you walk away from here you're going to be able to do this it isn't going to be a matter of

you're going to lose it because we're not basing it on you having good timing that particular day

um so the name of your book the lost fundamental what is there something specific that it it is a

basic fundamental that is missing for for most people who take instruction well it's it's

plain centered to the ball and that's been and that's that's the fundamental that really is lost

because there's so many people teaching to move the weight on to the right leg and then move it

back all the way on to the left leg I noticed that when I I've taken a lesson or I've been given

instruction or even going through a change is a swing change that the first thing that happens

to me is that all of a sudden my rhythm is all screwed up my timing I start speeding things up

well you know rhythm is a is is a very important aspect and you know with the technology that's

happening nowadays uh I met a gentleman by the name of Ted Collwell that has invented a thing called

an amazing piece of equipment because it it monitors your rhythm and and I think most

importantly it monitors your grip pressure on the golf handle uh through impact uh which really

has a lot to do with velocity and it also monitors the time of the swing so you can you can take

this watch put it on it tells the time and you spin it around and turn it backwards on your left

hand if you're right hand at golfer and go ahead and pop the ball and it's going to give you these

readouts and you can store these readouts so a person practicing can really really when they

hit it really well they can look at those numbers and say okay that's the numbers I want to get close

to yeah I have I have Ted right here I'd like to have that would be great and and uh you know

it's interesting because when Ted first introduced the shot watch he came on uh we we talked about

it on golf smarter podcast and there were so many people that um so many listeners who

purchased the shot watch and I got great feedback uh Teddy there yeah I'm here Fred nice to talk to

you again yeah it's great talking to you thanks so much for uh for coming on and sharing this time

with Tony yeah it's it's a pleasure uh uh I was listening very carefully to what Tony was having

to say uh because one of the things that we've adopted at the urging of of Tony and consistent with

his uh uh with his uh single pivot idea is our grip pressure now has an added feature just to

refresh your memory or for your first time uh listeners that aren't familiar with shot watch

we have a pressure plate on the back of the watch that's very very sensitive and it makes contact

with the pulse point on the active arm the left arm for a right hand at golfer now when the

arms rotate or the wrist moves those tendons exert pressure against that plate and that's but

we get our grip pressure readings on now in addition to to giving a reading on the grip pressure

throughout the swing plane which is the average from from take away to contact with a ball

we we do a statistical operation on that uh uh on those grip pressure readings there's 50 or so

of them through the swing and then we give the variation in the grip pressure so what that tells

the user is that if there's a large number for the variation there's a lot of variation in your

grip pressure through your swing which is just the opposite of what Tony is talking about because

that means the arms are rolling over the wrists are cocking uh they're uh you know the golfer is

bearing down at the time he's either breaking his wrist or cocking uh or making contact with the

ball that will cause a variation in the grip pressure instead of as Tony was talking about

keeping it constant throughout the swing uh so we've we've added that feature uh and we think

that's going to be uh uh very very helpful in terms of getting people to hit longer in straighter

shots we still have the other uh swing parameters we have the swing speed where where we encourage the

use of the instrument uh to uh uh as a swing speed workout device start off hitting slow swinging

slowly keep maintaining balance working on the single pivot uh and gradually increasing your speed

while maintaining your balance and while uh and and and so we you know we give a a digital readout

of that speed with uh uh one being slow as 10 being fastest so that uh like Tony's guys here uh

they're off the charts they uh they they exceed what we can capture with the shot watch because

as he's saying they they they'll whip that club around at a phenomenal rate in excess of 130 miles

an hour uh but uh for for just us mere mortals you know we're gonna start out we're gonna start out

we're gonna work toward getting that single pivot swing uh keeping everything compact and and uh

making good contact with the ball to to to drive it to to drive it longer so uh the shot watch you've

you've done a lot of work on the shot watch since it initially came out you've made a bunch of

changes um let let's talk for a moment uh clearly shot watch has a lot of value to someone uh at

the range to help them get a steady um a steady pace a good rhythm going but also and this this

new concept of grip pressure I think is really interesting because I know there are times where

I find myself you know white knuckling I'm just squeezing the club in a pressure situation

and you've really got to learn to control that yes you do and it really does help read to have a uh

to have a digital display and it represented as a real number which you can then record you know

in your active memory and then on subsequent swings say I got to get that number whether it's

the variation in the grip pressure number or the the absolute number I've got to you know I've

got to get that to where uh there there aren't these spikes you know in the in the grip pressure or

or uh large number in the variation read out I would think that it would be really valuable um to

have this on the range and and try different swings but but gripping it at different um pressures

intentionally so that you can see what it feels like and then you have a gauge to go oh okay so

that's what it feels like if I'm really squeezing too hard and that's what it is if I'm not enough

so you can really get a comparison and then take that with you out on the course to say all right this

is the difference between what it feels like you know I got to relax I can feel the gripping too

and where the rubber hits the road is whether the ball goes straight and and if there's a lot of

variation in the grip pressure as Tony was saying you know you're going to slice it and and and

because that you know that bearing down is going to alter the the the the slide of the ball as much

as anything and and uh to go on to the range with that nice relaxed grip you know again to quote Hogan

you know just tight enough to keep that club in your hands you know and and there's a digital number

that you know depending on the hand strength of the individual user that's a custom fit you know

it if it's uh you know the number that works for you is the one you'll commit the memory and

uh and and and and uh the device is really uh it's straight strong it's strength the strongest

selling point is that it's a muscle memory device mmm so important well um it's great to have you

back on the show and uh oh yeah and and because uh you had so much success with shot watch uh the

first time that we presented it on the golf smarter podcast you you contacted me again wanting to

do it and so we've talked about this previously and uh we've made arrangements for golf smarter

members uh to be able to purchase the shot watch at your website at a discounted price uh right

and so uh normally the price for the shot watch is $199.95 thank you so much for uh coming back

on the show and bringing Tony along he's absolutely yes well I want to I want to thank you Fred and

I also want to thank Tony because his his advice uh you know he's all his experience in teaching golf

and all the rest of that has has helped us in the development of the product enormously and uh

and you know so this is uh uh this is a genuinely a team effort and uh we're we're delighted to

work together with uh uh with Tony and his and his boys out here great and uh can I say goodbye to

Tony myself yes yes here he is hey Fred hey Tony thank you so much for coming on to the podcast and uh

I best of luck with it with the school and I'm hoping when I come back down to the desert sometime

in 2011 that will get a chance to meet one another face to face because I hope I hope so too and I

hope I didn't give you a kind of a bad ear here with that all that I loved it I loved it okay

at some point I'm going to want to be wearing a cap from your team from golf college of the

desert golf team that's a given awesome all right pal thank you Tony very much we'll talk to you

thank you bye bye now

I wanted to let you know that for the first time in 20 years of learning together on golf smarter

I'm taking a break from publishing new interviews this winter so instead of delivering the best

of golf smarter from the archives each Friday you'll now get to hear these conversations twice

a week until the spring you may have noticed that each of the older golf smarter interviews are

all numbered from their original date of publication as always I appreciate when you support our

sponsors now if you're a fan of our popular video shorts with tips and insights from our vast

interview library please check us out on social media at golf smarter on youtube instagram facebook

x or tiktok if you prefer to follow me on LinkedIn then find me at Fred Green g-r-e-e and

e from the vato california please feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions comments

or suggestions as I'm still checking emails to golf smarter podcast at gmail.com or click on the

hayfred button when you visit golfsmarter.com hey it's cold swindle after I give everything I've

got to land a perfect vocal I usually take five before jumping into the next track and I've learned

exactly how to recharge in that time some folks grab coffee I hit a quick good looks then next

thing you know the break is just as fun as land down the track a better break makes for a better

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