The Survivors of the OSU Abuse Scandal (Part 2)(NEW 3/6/26)

It's the Opperman Report and now here is Investigator in Opperman.

Okay.

Welcome to the Opperman Report.

I'm your host, Private Investigator Ed Opperman.

You can get a hold of me at Opperman Investigations and Digital Forensic Consulting.

If you reach out to me through my email, Opperman Investigations at gmail.com.

Now, this is a show we've been waiting to do for about seven years.

Michael Di Sabato.

Di Sabato, Michael Di Sabato, who is from OSU, Ohio State University.

And he was a wrestler there.

And he has all this kind of inside information about Dr. Strauss and Jim Jordan

and all the activities, the less Wexner and all this stuff that went on down there at OSU.

This is the guy who I've been talking to for seven years.

This is the guy with all the inside information that I've been hinting about for seven years.

We finally got him.

Mr. Michael Di Sabato, are you there?

How are you Ed?

Good to hear from you.

That's what we've waited.

We've waited.

We've got it there.

It's been a while.

I appreciate your patience and appreciate the opportunity to share.

Yeah, well, you got some gold.

Yeah, you got some gold.

So let's get this out there.

Before we get into the whole story about Ohio State University and Dr. Strauss

and all the scandals and all this stuff you've told me over the years,

tell us about yourself.

Who is Michael Di Sabato?

Di Sabato.

I'll keep telling you that, brother.

Damn.

I'll never get it now.

I'll never get it now.

No, you're not the only one.

But yeah, Sabato is in Italian and Spanish Sabato is Saturday.

So Di Sabato.

I grew up on the west side of Columbus.

I'm one of nine Italian Catholic family.

My father was an entrepreneur, a small business owner.

He served.

He opened a bar pizza shop in 1960 called Amelia's on the west side of Columbus.

It was down the street from a large General Motors plant.

So growing up, you know, I was around union workers from General Motors.

And, you know, they would come to the to the bar back in the days.

The GM workers were allowed to come to the bar and have a couple beers.

Maybe a shot of Jack Dan was then go back in and build, build automobiles.

So my family, you know, I grew up in that, you know, in that small business family.

Let's call it.

And then there was nine of us, six boys, three girls.

All six of the boys wrestled.

All six of us wrestled in high school, at Bishop really high school in the west side.

Each of us that has won at least one state championship.

And our family holds a record in the state of Ohio for most.

Most state titles amongst brothers.

We're actually tied with the Jordan family, Jeff Jordan, Jim, Jim Jordan's brother.

From there, five of the six of us went to college and wrestled for Ohio State University.

One of my brothers actually wrestled at Notre Dame.

I have a cousin that also wrestled at Notre Dame.

And then two other cousins that wrestled at Ohio State.

So there's seven of us that competed at Ohio State University between the mid 70s and the early 90s.

I got also got a niece and two cousins that were gymnasts.

Shratch that they were cheerleaders.

So all in all, we, you know, we have the record for most varsity letters at,

at the Ohio State University, which, which is pretty proud of given the fact that,

you know, Ohio State is the largest athletic department in the world.

And so, you know, so I was a student athlete.

I then did my master's program at Ohio State, a graduated undergrad in business marketing.

And I did my post grad and public administration at the John Glenn College.

And that was the mid 90s, 94.

Then I got into, you know, the license license of peril business.

At one point I had a brand called Silver Knight, which was the first NIL program in the country.

We had over 20 players under contract, former Ohio State legends, like Archie Griffin,

Eddie George, Chris Pium, and we were the first company to pay the college,

former college player for the, for the, for their name and number jerseys.

From 1975 to 2001, Archie Griffin, you know, two-time Heisman trophy winner had not received a royalty on his number 45 jersey

that was shipping in the market every year.

The university was getting their cut from their manufacturer.

But Archie had not received anything.

And so that's where really where my advocacy for former, for, for players began.

And in college, as a, as a post graduate, I did my master's thesis on issues of substance abuse and sexual assault within the student athlete population.

And then again, my business career, I was group licensing former players and driving, you know, marketing dollars to them in a way that.

After a couple of years made the university uncomfortable, because we were starting to prove at that time that, you know, athletes had, had power had some marketing power in the, in the,

in the Columbus and Ohio area.

And, you know, the, the business model that Ohio State and the NCAA has, you know, has, has followed for almost a century.

You know, they're not in the, in the business of, of compensating athletes, both current and, and former.

So it was a unique situation.

Um, we were that, we were the pioneers.

So Michael, you're still doing it today, still doing that sports market.

What happened in 2006.

I started the company in 2001.

And we were doing about six million dollars at wholesale with Ohio State, about 70% player was player driven product.

Bobblehead dolls jerseys. I mean, at one point in, we were shipping every major retailer in the state of Ohio from finish line, foot locker, made these to, to Walmart.

And so that was 2001 in 2006, day after Christmas, actually, I got a termination letter from the university.

They, they revoked my license.

I had 20, 15, 20 players under contract at about 12 employees locally.

I was done about six million wholesale.

And Gene Smith, the athletic director at the time, was not a fan of, of our, of our brand.

And again, it came down to the fact that we were advocating for former players in a way that they didn't like.

And so that, they bankrupt that company. Basically, they terminated my license, sent me into a spiral.

And fortunate for me, about three, about three months later, actually March, March 3rd, 2000, 2007.

I walked into my first mixed martial arts event that I'd been to in 10 years.

I wrestled here in college and my college roommates, teammates, Mark Coleman and Kevin Randerman.

We're both former USC heavyweight champion. Mark is a UFC Hall of Famer, actually, Mark and Kevin are both UFC Hall of Famer.

Not in that business, I pivoted out of the, out of the college business into the mixed martial arts.

And I did the same thing there, a group licensed former current MMA fighters at the time, like Chuck LaDelle and BJ Penn and Randy Coacher, these types of guys.

And then my guys, Mark Coleman and Kevin Randerman, and we were able to go into Walmart at the time.

And we became the first MMA lifestyle brand to ship into Walmart, both in the US and Canada. At one point, we had 3,300 stores.

And the brand was called MMA Elite. And again, I'm proud of that brand because again, we were paying players. We were paying fighters. We were paying athletes.

But Michael, before we got too deep into the weeds over there with that, I'm guessing that the reason why you lost that contract is because your objection to this huge scandal.

It's going on at OSU with all this, some of these wild perversions and things we were going on in the locker rooms here in the hallways and in the school there.

So why don't you give us a take us back to when you're a student there. You're a student wrestler at OSU.

When did you first start to notice that something was a miss?

Day one. Day one, you know, day one. Actually, I had a sense of what was up before I came.

I started at Ohio State 1986. So let's say that was September of 86 was my first class on campus in my first physical.

And that was, that was, you know, the first time I ever done a physical, I was, I think I was what 18 years old, you know, first, first, first, you know, first day of practice.

Literally, you know, we've got to go through a physical and the physical was performed by this doctor, Richard Strauss.

Now, I knew Strauss of him because when I was a high school freshman, Strauss was a, you know, sports esteemed, let's call him sports medicine doctor. He had credentials and he was, you know, he had written several, you know, several.

Well, one Michael, let me ask you a question. You are a high school and your whole family is a bunch of athletes. You guys didn't have doctors on the payroll.

Well, again, the reason, okay, so let me go back to that. Yeah, when I was when I was 14, again, our, our high school, Bishopsbury high school was one of the most prominent high schools in the country.

Right. 1982, the team, the year before I came in, my brother Luke was a captain. They set the state record for most points.

I mean, they dominated the state of Ohio and then my freshman year, we finished second in the state. I actually won the state title as a freshman that year.

But early in the year, we were, we were part of our high school agreed, our high school coach and our high school administrator agreed to allow Dr. Strauss to come into the school and conduct body fat tests on, on us.

It was part of a research, quote, quote, research study that he was conducting to, you know, to measure body fat of, you know, high school wrestlers.

You know, and that in the way they presented it to us was this, this would, you know, if your body fat was 4% or 6%, it would tell you what weight class you should be in.

And as I look back now, I think it was a bunch. It was an excuse. Yeah, I was going to ask you know, what do you think it was an excuse to whoever brought, whoever brought him in and allowed him to have access to young kids. You think that they were in on this?

No, I don't think they were in on it. I just think they were, they were naive. I think at the time, you know, we're talking, you know, 1983, we didn't know what, you know, now about predatory physicians.

We didn't know, you know, then, you know, about predatory doctor priests. We didn't know, you know, we didn't know what we know now about, you know, Boy Scout predators.

And so he was able to come in as this doctor. Again, we give at that time, we gave, you know, car blanche the doctors. If that's, if the doctor tells you that's part of the, you know, part of the gig, you follow it.

And in Strauss's case, he was not only a doctor, but he was a doctor from the Ohio State University. Right. And in Columbus, and then the state of Ohio, the Ohio State University is, is, you know, the second largest employer in the state of Ohio, and it drives this state's economy, the Ohio State football in particular is, you know, it's, it's called Tish. It's, you know, it's a, I call it a theology.

So take respect them to the first day at the college when you first meet Strauss. What, what, what, let me, let me spend a minute on my fort when I was 14. So I'm 14 years old. I'm lined up with, you know, with, with our team.

And we've got to, we've got to go into the private little coaches office with, you know, no one's in there, but me and the doctor. Right. And, you know, we're wearing, we're stripped down to our underwear.

I go in, and he's sitting on a, on a chair, and he starts measuring, you know, different, he'll pinch you at the side, he'll pinch your buttocks and measure.

And he's got this little tool that's measuring, you know, your difference. So he's probbin and poking and touching, you know, and he was, he was, it wasn't the funnest thing to do. And at the end of the, after, you know, measuring different areas, he had to drop your pants to do a general exam.

And I don't, you know, at the time, you know, again, I'm following what, what everyone, you know, what he, he tells me he wants to do a general exam. That's part of the deal. I'm 14 years old. I do it.

When I come out of the, out of that room, it was, it was an open joke. Like, yeah, did you get your, you know, did you get your genitals examined?

So we, we joked about it back in 20 or back in 1983 as a freshman. I also knew about Strauss at that time, because my brothers, my two older brothers had competed at Ohio State in the early 80s. So they, like, 80, 79, 80, they were there. And so they had, you know, when they come back for Sunday dinners.

You know, my mom would cook for, you know, four or five of their teammates. They come back to the, to the house and, you know, get away from campus. And I remember vividly, you know, several there.

One, one teammate in particular was a funny guy. And he would, he would joke about these general exams that Strauss was giving to, to male athletes at Ohio State at the time.

So I, I knew who this dude was. I'd seen him at, you know, at Ohio State events, because, you know, my brothers are wrestling. So, so when I saw him, it wasn't the first time I'd seen him as a 14 year old. And again, he, he trusted within the wrestling community, operating in, in plain sight. So, so that, that was the first time. And then as a college freshman, you know, it was the same type of situation.

You know, we got our, we got a shorts on, we're lined up outside his, outside of his office. You had to walk into the office.

Walk in the office by yourself. You're the only one in there with him. You know, he does, you know, whatever he does, you know, texture, throat, you know, all the stuff that you would think are, are normal things as a, as a physical, but each physical also required you to drop your pants and allow him to do.

A hernia, it wasn't just the hernia check, though, it was hernia. And then he's, he's playing with your testicles. And again, I come out of that, out of that exam. And everyone's joking about it. Actually, before I went in there, he's, you know, the older guys that, you know, seniors and juniors would joke with you. I think he's really going to like you. Yeah.

And, and so, you know, that was the, that was the joke, the open secret was, you know, that's who this dude was. And at the time, again, we didn't know, we didn't know that what he was doing was sexual abuse.

It wasn't until I was 50 years old. And I'm sitting around, I'm actually having a conversation with Mark Coleman, who again was, he's the first ever USC heavyweight champion. I mean, this dude at one point was the baddest dude on planet.

Mike Tyson included. I mean, we're talking MMA superstar.

He had, this is December, 2017, his, his, his two girls, one in particular was an elite athlete, or she was an elite gymnast. So he was following the Larry Nasser case very closely.

And he said something that rang a bell with me. He said, you know, Nasser was done unnecessary general exams every time on, you know, elite gymnasts.

There were names that included Ali Reisman and Simone Biles. I mean, we're talking to who's who of USA Gymnastics. And again, he was at Michigan State.

And so when I heard that, Ed, I was like, boom, hit me. And I said, Mark, that's us. That's the same thing that Strauss did us. And he kind of looked at me for a minute and he said, you're right. You're right. And I said, Mark, I'm, I'm going to do some research.

I'm, I'm coming forward. And so that, that was, that was December, 2017, about three months later, March of 20, March 27, 2018, I blew the whistle.

And, and my, my life changed forever after that.

But that's the kind of story that everybody knows. And when you hear about when I tell people OSU, they say, oh, yeah, that doctor was doing these exams and it was all kind of shady.

But over the years, you and me have talked, and you sent me this video to a really elaborate testimony, looks like a, almost like a deposition with the time around it.

And the overall atmosphere of what was going on in those locker rooms, in those showers, in the hallways, in the stairwells.

Once you give us a 19, when did you first notice that?

Well, day one, again, Lark, it was the facility. It was called Lark and Saul. And it was, you know, at the time, you know, all most colleges across the country. And I've been to several of them.

Big 10, you know, big 10 colleges, in particular, they had what they call these recreational facilities.

And they housed, they had classrooms in them and they had, you know, the pool and the, you know, weight room and it was three level. I mean, it was a big, you know, it was a big facility.

And there was a locker room, you know, an open locker room in the showers were, you know, these old fashioned showers where you could fit 10 guys in the same shower. And there was a sauna and whatnot.

Well, we were forced as elite male athletes to take showers and saunas with the general student and professor and, and administrator population.

So, and then that was policy of the university. I mean,

and well, if you can imagine this, Ed, you're talking about 18, 19, 20 year old elite athletes, many world class athletes that are after practice.

We're walking into I call the gauntlet of sexual divency. I mean, literally every day, we were forced to take showers and, and, and go in the sauna because wrestlers, you know, we use saunas.

On a regular basis to control our weight and just it's good therapy. But literally every day we went in there. We were surrounded by deviant sexual predators.

That, you know, we're either students, most of which were administrators or professors. I mean, we're literally 18, 19 years old. We're taking a shower with, with sexual predators daily.

And they're in their shower for hours. Yeah, just watching the kids, right?

One of which was Dr. Richard Strauss. Absolutely. I mean, they were there. I mean, we go in the sauna, Ed. And these dudes would be, you know, no towel on completely exposed to us. This is the first time, you know, for me that I had been around, you know, I'm 18 years old.

I come to the West. I mean, nice. We took showers as, you know, high school with athletes, you know, my age, which wasn't necessarily comfortable either.

I mean, you're taking showers with you guys and there's all kinds of, you know, homophobic banter going around and whatnot. But then when you get to college, you're not only taking a shower with your teammates, but you're in there with Dr. Strauss, who was in there every day.

And again, probably a handful, six, seven, eight, and a lot of them were there every day at the same time.

And then, and then it was so bad that Coach Ellison would change the time or practice.

And it would take them two to three days to figure out that we had changed, changed times. And then boom, they come back.

Well, for an example, they would have practiced at six o'clock at night. They all the guys are showing at six o'clock. He changes to one o'clock and all these professors and stuff stop showing up at six and they're all showing up at one.

Yeah, because they got wind when the little boys are there. Yeah.

Now, now the guy that really had it all was Dr. Richard Strauss. And we now know, first of all, we know, I knew, you know, day one Strauss took showers with us. He took showers.

He probably took six, seven, eight showers a day with different athletes in different sports. He had a locker room. He had a locker in our locker room because we had a private locker room.

But we had to share the shower with the general population. And we had to share the shower or the sauna with the general population.

But Strauss had his, so we, we come into our personal locker room. Strauss was there. He had a, he had a locker in gymnastics. He had a locker in swimming. He had a locker in basketball. He would, he would go from one team to the next team.

And literally, he was taken six, seven showers a day. I've seen him take, I've seen him take two showers within 45 minutes.

Now, Michael, let me ask you this now, because there's also a story that he had a camera. He had a full blown camera, not an iPhone camera, but he had a full blown camera.

Well, he never had the camera in the, you know, that I saw in the locker room. But he was, he was the guy. And this is typical of pedophiles. Right.

They, they run around with cameras. Oh, and at the time, we didn't have cell phones with photo. This was, you know, been not mid eighties. So, you know, he was unique. He would show up to, you know, these matches, you know, he's not only our doctor, but he's got a camera in his hand.

Right. And, and so, you know, he was taking photos of off. He would give us photo. I mean, it's all, all grooming stuff. You know, no one else has taken, taken photos. One of the best photos from my college days, Doc Strauss took.

I mean, it's, it's beautiful. I remember exactly where he took it. And at the, the Ohio Open that year, my freshman year, I believe it was.

And, you know, I, you know, I posted that picture and it's, it's, you know, look back on it. And again, this dude, you know, he, he was a very skilled predator.

And it wasn't just Doc Strauss or others too, they were there, soping themselves down. And even this video you sent me, this fellow is telling us it was like a coach there.

He's telling us about that they were masturbating in the bathrooms that they were faced into the locker rooms. And he was pulling them out.

They were seeing them the hallways in the, everywhere. Yeah.

Well, the, the story you're referring to is Coach Ellison and the video that you're talking about actually sat Coach Ellison down in June of 2018, about three or four months after I came forward.

And my goal when I took, when I did this sit down with him was just to put him on record, you know, I wanted to get his testimony so that we could share that testimony with university.

And, and that would lead them to, you know, to settle the case. And at the time, you know, Coach, Coach Ellison was, was supportive. I mean, he, he was, you know, this is before the, the, the gym Jordan part of this came forward. And so in June, I sitting down, I sitting down.

And, and he gives me 51 minute interview. And in that, in that interview, as you've seen, I mean, he details the, the environment in Larkin's hall. He says at one point that he used to come to work every day.

And he thought that that day might be the day that he, that he lost control and assaulted someone. He felt like that kind of trauma.

Every day, he would walk into that, that facility. And what, what he was referring to is, yes, one day, you know, one story in particular, there was a, you know, there was a group of, or there was a series of toilet stalls, you know, with the door and whatnot.

And, and you could look over top of it. This dude was looking over top of it, peering into the showers, because you could look into the kind of looking into the showers adjacently.

And he was masturbating with his head peaked over top, Alex and pushed open the door. He grabbed this dude by the wrist. He says he posing out. This dude's yelling out, you can't do this. You, you're, and he said, Russ says he has his wrist. He said this, his, he says his fist.

The kid's fist turned white. That's how strong. I mean, Russ is a big man. So he squeezed in this dude's, you know, hand that, or wrist that type towards turning white.

He said, called some get someone down here. This kid's like threatening to sue him. You have no right to do this. And he'll extend again. I know, you know, you saw the video. He was traumatized.

Right. And it wasn't just that. Literally, we would, we'd walk up to the, to the wrestling room, which was again open, you know, as part of this Larkin's hall.

So folks, you know, you could get to it. If you were not, not that there was no, you know, locker key or, or, you know, any security, we'd walk up to practice.

We'd catch two dudes, you know, having sex on our mat, you know, having sex. There was like a spiral staircase going up to the wrestling. There we catch him having sex in the, it was just a deviant sexual environment.

But it, and frankly, it wasn't the only facility on campus where we're deviant sexual acts were going on without, without inner, you know, the university and, you know, stepping in.

Russ was on on the record, complaining about this environment. And he said it hits on the public. There's, he does not deny this piece of the puzzle. He was regularly going to his superiors.

Andy Geiger, Rick Bay, Jim Jones, and complaining, get us out of here. This is not, you know, this is, this is not okay.

And university officials, including Andy Geiger, are on the record saying, yeah, he did and we just didn't handle it right.

Yeah, he even says, hey, can we have 15 minutes where we could just shower and peace with nobody else coming in? And they wouldn't even allow that.

Exactly. They could have made a time. Right. You know, you're not allowed in unless you're 15 minutes, 15, 20 minutes, whatever it was.

And then there was, there was also, we have, Alex and also asked to build a wall to where, you know, we could use the part of the shower that, that wouldn't have access.

Right. And part of me, you know, I look at it now and I look at what, you know, who these people are.

You know, now that I know who these people are that are running this university, you have run this university.

These are deviant sexual predators, many of them. And, you know, this, this university, the Ohio State University, has been run by deviant sexual predators for over 40 years.

You know, Mike, it's also, it's important to that when you watch this Mike Ellis and tell this story, this coach, he wasn't naked in showering, but you could tell that he was traumatized just by the constant stress of this daily intrusion, this daily violation.

Yeah, he was, this guy's, you could tell he's, I deal with these kind of cases all the time and I could hear it in his voice.

I know when someone's been traumatized and they've been damaged from this kind of thing.

Yeah, literally, he's on the record saying every day I walked into that building, I would try to out of my life.

He's tells the story of this when he bring recruits in, you know, they have to walk the facility.

He's 15 minutes, 20 minutes before he would bring the student in with their parents.

He would walk the facility to make sure there wasn't deviant, you know, predators having sex in, you know, the wrestling room or the showers.

So, and that actually, you know, can you imagine it? This was that crazy.

I think you just can't even imagine that you have to, you have to let me go scout it out first before I bring the parents and let it say, which, which, which goes to the fact that everyone knew.

You know, the Perkins color report, which was, which was the report.

Before you get to that, before you get to that, I got a question because I know that there was a situation where the to allow this like Epstein, Jeffrey Epstein himself.

The most notorious pedophile on the planet gave a donation in order for a less wester who was his main funder.

Now, is that would cause this, this rule to be allowed where anybody can use the locker rooms at this time?

Well, it was involved. No, not that I'm not that I'm aware of.

I'm, you know, Epstein was involved with the university. We now know in a, in a crazy way. I'll get to that in a minute.

I just, what I saw what I look back on now is this, you know, the policy of the university was that professors administrators and this doctor who was our team doctor could shower with us.

And again, the repeated complaints to the university that were ignored.

So, you know, why you ask yourself why? Well, we now know that, you know, this university has been governed by, you know, one of the, the primary person that's helped, you know, govern this university for 40 years is Leslie Wexner, who is the single most culpable.

Co-conspirator to Jeffrey Epstein, you know, Elaine Maxwell during her deposition that, you know, the controversial deposition she gave about nine months ago.

She said in the deposition, I don't never forget it. I heard her voice and it was, it was eerie to me. You know, she got Jeffrey, you know, Jeffrey and Leslie were, were inseparable and Jeffrey ran new Albany, literally ran new Albany.

The Albany is the, it was a farmland out on the east side of Columbus that Leslie Wexner bought out all these farmers and created his own little Leslie world, you know, with his billion dollar mansions and, and what we know now, it was the epicenter of Jeffrey Epstein.

It was the epicenter for Michael Jeffries, the sexual predator that he hired to run Abercrombie and Fitch. Right.

And, and again, Leslie Wexner, as I pointed out in December at a board meeting, he is, he's involved in a trifecta of sexual abuse scandals that include Jeffrey Epstein, the largest cover up sexual sexual abuse scandal in the world history.

Jeffrey Epstein lived in Columbus, Ohio on Leslie Wexner's property in 1996 Maria Farmer, you know, one of the most high profile Epstein survivors, incredibly claims that she was raped on, on Wexner's property by Maxwell and Epstein.

And so, and we now know, Ed, this came out about two weeks ago, Jeffrey Epstein had a gynecologist from Ohio State, a guy named Dr. Mark Landon, who, you know, it was also, I'm told, the gynecologist and delivered Abigail Wexner's children.

This man was on a $75,000 retainer that was being paid by through Epstein, but it was money that was coming through the Wexner's. So tell me why it's a good question. I think many people were asking, why does Jeffrey Epstein needed gynecologist in Ohio to, as a consultant, they said.

So that's a problem. And how can you be so bold? Okay, he's up, how can he, how do you can be so bold to approach a college gynecologist and say, hey, I want you to work for me on the side?

Well, you're bold, you're bold because you're used to using your money to buy, you know, access. And you make these people, you know, this says, you know, it's, this is a criminal network. These guys are, and I say this, and I'll say it very specific.

These dudes are serial criminal pedophile sex traffickers. That's who they are. And that's who they've been for 50 years. Leslie Wexner, funded and is, note, everyone in this community knows who this dude was. They've heard about the parties on his mansion where he had 15, 15, you know, you're old bullboys out there.

Wexner was, he was on the boy side of his, of his fetish, let's call it, but there was, you know, listen, Epstein was running the sex trafficking through Victoria Secret was using the brand Victoria Secret to, to, you know, approach young, young girls, you know, I'll give you a modern career, you'll be a, you know, Victoria Secret model.

If you just have sex with me, come to my party, rub me, give me a massage, and I'll give you access. Same thing was happening right in our front, right in front of our eyes with Avacronbi and Fitch and Michael Jeffries. Michael Jeffries is going is, is on trial or it's going to trial here soon for, you know, sexually sex trafficking boys. It was happening right here.

And these models and from Australia and having them shave down their bodies, very elaborate, a bassist go, but Michael, let me ask you a quick question real quick. Go back and look at the advertising campaign. Right.

There's a wrestler in, in our, you know, there was a couple of years younger than me that, that became the number one Avacronbi and Fitch model.

And, and I mean, this, this dude has been traumatized. I mean, in a, in a way that's different than, than, than most of the wrestlers I came to, because he went right from Dr. Richard Strauss to Michael Jeffries.

And, and both of those, both, again, Waxner can't be separated from Strauss because he was, he was on the board of directors from 1988 to 1997 when Strauss was there.

And he was chairman of the board trustees in 1995, 96 when Strauss was going through secret disciplinary hearings.

And the Strauss, the medical building was the Waxner medical building.

You can't get more than that.

I'm not at the time that Strauss was there. I'm not sure that was named after Waxner time.

But, but Waxner, again, was part of the governance of this, of this, of the Ohio State dating back to, you know, 40, 45 years.

His wife too was a trustee to there as well. But let me ask you a question now this, because you told me something in our last recording that's totally unreported by anyone.

And that Waxner installed security cameras in his daughter's school. What was that a high school in middle school? What was that story?

Yes. Yes. My, my kids went to a private school here in Columbus and, and this is 2001.

Mr. Waxner's one of his children came into the, to the school.

And, you know, he, he approached the administration.

And they agreed to allow him to install the surveillance system.

And it was sold to them as security because he was an all billionaire and, and needed surveillance to protect his child.

He also had a, there was a town car always in the, in the parking lot of that, of that school. And it was there all the time with armed guards.

So this guy was, let's just say he was paranoid or was there really a reason to have them there.

I, you know, my daughters tell me one of the memories that they have is that the day 9-11 happened, you know, Waxner shot was rushed out of that, out of that school and into, you know, into that town cars.

So, to say that these guys, these guys were surveilling everything and everything.

There was a high school, a middle school, what, what kind of school was this?

It was both. It was, you know, K through K through high school. So, yeah, it, you know, you hear people now say, well, how did Waxner know?

How did he not know? He had surveillance everywhere, everywhere they went.

You go into Victoria's Secret, you know, those, the house that, that, that Epstein, you know, had at, at Victoria or here on Waxner's property here in New Albany.

I mean, there's, you know, I know people have come to me and droves of what they saw when they were there. First of all, you go into Waxner's property.

You've got to sign a non-disclosure before you go in and when you go out, I mean, this, if you were part of the country club that he built, you had to sign disclosures.

Okay, Michael, we only got 20 minutes left and I want to really, I want to try and squeeze this into one hour.

We can have you come back several times and more, but I like the squeeze as much as we can into this one hour.

So now, there's a, you have a very depressing story about Mr. Jim Jordan and the son.

What can you tell us about what's, what went on there with Jim Jordan?

Well, Jim was, you know, I, first of all, I grew up with Jim Jordan. I was, you know, our family was a prominent wrestling family.

The Jordans and the DeSabetos are the two most prominent family, the size school wrestling family within state of Ohio.

You know, we have, I think, total of 15 state titles between our cousins and siblings and the Jordans have,

Shit, they have 20 some between Jim and his brother Jeff and, and then Jeff's kids and Jim's kids.

So, you know, I, when I was six years old, I started wrestling in the Jordan, you know, Jim and Jeff Jordan were, you know, they were a little bit older, but we, you know, we knew each other because we were all those meats and tournaments.

We were always at them.

And I got to college in 1986. Jim was Russ Alex in first year. He was, I was part of his first recruiting class in Jim had just won two titles at Wisconsin.

And he became, he was our assistant coach. So I trained with Jim, you know, for eight years.

And, you know, Jim was there. He saw everything that was going down.

His locker actually was next to Dr. Richard Strauss. Every day he would come in and he would dress and undress and shower.

And he was, again, there's nothing that went on with Strauss that Jim Jordan didn't witness.

I mean, I tell one story, you know, we, we would come down from, from practice, you know, after it's been an hour and a half, you know, sparring with, with our, you know, with our teammates.

Like we come down and Strauss would be, would be undressed sitting on a bench with his legs crossed, reading the New York Times.

And it was just normal. And, and so it was normalized. Let me say that. And so, yeah, Jim was part of the, you know, he, he just like us. He had to take showers. Strauss was in the shower every day.

And we now know, you know, that, that what Strauss was doing in the showers, taking showers rubbing himself.

He was strange. I mean, you know, no, he was a pedophile. Strange is not the right.

He was a pedophile. He was openly, you know, rubbing it. He would rub soap with two hands, not one hand to hands.

And he would face you. He wasn't facing the shower. He would turn so his back was, he was able to watch everyone. Jim was in those showers.

And that, that, that behavior is a doctor taking showers. Your doctor taking showers with you in that situation is a form of sexual abuse.

So based on that definition, Jim Jordan was assaulted on a daily basis.

Yeah, we see the trauma. This other coach Ellison went through the, why, why wasn't Jim Jordan and traumatized equally to speak out about this?

Well, that's, I think that's one of the reasons Jim, Jim lied in July of 2018 when he was asked by NBC news, what he knew and didn't know.

And it was a couple of days, you know, he was in the middle of, of potentially becoming the speaker of the house at the time.

He had three or four votes for making it happen. And NBC News asked him if he knew and he said he lied and, and that had been four or four months into it.

And I, I, I was fed up. I'm like, dude, you know, here he's got an opportunity to support us. He's in a position to support us and actually help this thing go away quickly.

And he just lied plain and simple. He knew what Strauss was up to. He knew about the unnecessary general exams. He knew about, you know, him going in showers with us. He, he was there. He did it.

And I'm sure that Jim Jordan went through the same kind of Jim Jordan had to do physicals.

Was he the only one that Dr. Strauss didn't give a general exam to? I don't think so.

So, and I think, you know, when I look back on, on this, you know, and how Jim has, you know, denied this, it comes down to Jim is like, you know, many guys.

It's difficult for a, for a male athlete or just, just a guy to admit that he was inappropriately unlawfully touched by another man.

And so Jim stuck to that, to that, you know, to that lie. And, you know, he, he will go down in history as the person he's become.

What about, what about, wasn't there something about the son of the, were they elected like the king of the son or something?

What is that? Yes, yes. I mean, you know, he, he tries to say, you know, when he tried to say, I do, didn't know nothing. Well, my brother Jim, Jim was, Jim loved the son, loved it.

He was in there every day from start to finish. He had this fetish where he would prance around, you know, Jim was put together.

So he'd wear shorts in there and, and or a towel. And he would, you know, he was, he was, he was, he was a peacock in there.

I mean, he was, you know, he was the guy. And he had, you know, he had two things of which kind of strange. He used to get a tongue depressor from Doc Strauss from the, you know, from the training room.

And he was sweating. He would scrape off the sweat with this tongue depressor in front of not only his wrestlers, which became part of the part of the, you know,

the, it was normalized. But he's also, you got these professors that are exposed in front of us. And he's prancing around. It just was a strange environment.

Now, that's interesting. What did you say? He obtained this tongue depressor from the doctor. So no, it's a stock delivering this tongue depressor.

No, he could not, no, but it was, you know, it's in the train. He would go in the training room and get it for himself.

Yeah, you'd grab him and walk in. And Strauss was in those showers, too, and those on us. So, you know, so to say that you didn't know about Strauss is just, it's laughable.

I mean, it's, it's disgusting, frankly, because you're back on the guys that I trained with Jim Jordan for three years. I mean, I've known since it was since I was six years old.

And that was, you know, that betrayal will never, it will never go away. And, and, and I'm not the only one. I mean, Mark Coleman, you know, you know, he came out. He's one of the second who's probably second whistleblower when, when Jim denied it.

He told the Wall Street Journal, well, he must have dementia if he forgot about this. And, you know, so, so yeah.

What about private conversations with Jordan? Any, any admission ever in private?

And everyone knew. Yeah, everyone knew. So I remember telling stories, my own experience. I've, I've won experience in particular with Strauss where I was, it was summertime. And I was sports.

I had, I had a sore throat or something. I need to anibond to meet him at Larkins Hall. And this was a summertime. So there was no one there. And, and it was dark and dingy. These, these recreation, but it wasn't well lit.

So I'm basically going back into the training room. There's no lights. And I got to go into his office. And he, you know, I got a sore throat. And he wants us, you know, wants to do a general exam. And if you want it, if you, if you needed the, you did it because number one, he's the doctor.

And, and number two, you want the medication. And, and so I'm sitting there. He's going to general exam. And I just remembered thinking to myself.

This guy, don't get erection. You know, it was like, and I got no one else around me. So it's, it's, if I snap this dude, you know, it's my word against his and, and I could potentially get thrown out of school.

Plus your kid, you know, you're a kid. He's not my kid. Yeah. And so, and so I recall vividly, I would tell that story back then. I remember telling Jim in a group of guys about it and everyone's laughing because that's what we did. We tried to make humor out of it.

And Frank and I said, tell that story. I would tell that story until I was 50 when I really realized, well, what that story I was telling was, what was my trauma of being sexually abused by this dude. So Jim Jordan.

It's, yeah, I, I am.

It's, it's, it's unfortunate that again, you know, the guys mostly, I work, we, you know, we feed, but it's betrayal. It's a huge betrayal.

And frankly, he didn't have, and all he had to say, which was the truth that, you know, he saw it, he, he actually told helix and about it, you know, and they took it up the chain of command.

Now, you know, once this came public, then they all backed up. I didn't really know about the general exams. I knew about Larkin's hall, and I knew about the showers, and I knew about, but I didn't know anything about these generals.

If shut the heck, you don't want me to drop the F bomb, but shut the F up. Just thinking would be a hero. He's standing up against Epstein, standing up against Wexner.

He just being a guy. You're just being an honorable person, which he always would preach, you know, his, his, him and helix, all these values integrity and all this stuff, you know, and, and then when it came time to be that person in a, in a difficult moment, he wouldn't do it. And again, I think it goes back to the fact that Jim Jordan is not comfortable with his own sexuality.

Meaning, you know, to be able to admit to another man or to the public that he was part of this deviant environment, he would, you know, he may be a costing votes, or he just didn't feel, you know, a lot of guys, it's difficult to admit that this happened to you.

And that's one of the nice, that's one of the things I'm most proud of and stepping forward in what I've seen over the late last eight years is, and this is, this is not just Ohio State University, you know, these monsters are out there, the Epstein's of the world.

This is the crime as old as time. And so the fact that we came forward, there was a thousand guys at Michigan, a thousand athletes of Michigan, they had a doctor up there that was there for 30 years, Dr. Robert Anderson, the Michigan several their case with a thousand guys, I think it was 490 million in 2022.

Here we're at Ohio State in 2026, we came out before Michigan, they actually came out because of us.

And, and we're still in federal court with Ohio State because, and I'll say because the chairman of the Board of Trustees currently, and it has been there for eight years, John Ziger, is Leslie Webson's personal attorney.

The current board, Jesse and the co chair is Liz Kessler, the, the daughter of Jack Kessler, who's Leslie Webson's former business, no, he's not forming, he's his business partner in the new Albany company, which was the real estate company that bought all the land and, and changed new Albany from a farm community into this, you know,

Wexner Metropolis, and so that those are the people, that's who they are, that's who they are, they are at best, meaning Ziger and Kessler, they are at best, serial criminal, pedophile sex, trafficker, enablers.

John Ziger was involved in every transaction that Leslie Wexner had with Jeffrey Epstein, he was the attorney, every might be a stretch, but he was in the middle of it, and Ziger's name appears in the Epstein trial or Epstein files on many occasions, he was communicating, and this guy is running the board of directors today.

And these, that's the same people that are investigating these allegations, they're investigating themselves.

It's unbelievable that the general public has no idea the depth of what you're explaining to us, that they hear this low hanging fruit about, well, they were both in the locker room, you had to know, and when all this other stuff was going on, eyewitnesses recorded eyewitnesses.

Is there anybody who takes the side of Jordan says, well, I didn't see anything, either, is anybody take that side?

Well, there's guys that took his side, like he's being unfairly attacked, because his purse, but there's no one, meaning even the guys that didn't want to get in the middle of it, that didn't want to, you know, there's guys that were, that were, there's big, I mean, we're talking national champion, Olympic caliber athletes on both, both that came forward and, you know,

they said they were abused, and there's those guys that weren't going public, because they didn't want to embarrass Ross in gym, but, but none of them denied that this happened to them.

They just wanted to stay in the, in the shower shadows, because again, they would have to, they would have to admit that they were sexually abused as a male. It's difficult.

The conversation around sexual abuse, yeah, we've always talked about it when, as it relates to, you know, young girls in the Boy Scouts and Priests, whatnot, but we're talking about elite male athletes, many of which, you know, Mark Coleman, UFC Hall of Famer, the baddest man on the planet, and it happened to him, and it also happened to hundreds of football players at Ohio State University.

And, and, you know, the university doesn't want that story to be out there, but what we're seeing here recently, as recent as December 1st, December 20th, 2025, the first football player,

step forward, and, and said, Al Washington, who's, who's one of the all-time leading tacklers in Ohio State football history, he stepped forward December 4th at a, at a board meeting that we held,

a rally we held at a board meeting in December 4th, and what's happened since then to today is he's being followed by a, a, a group of legendary former Ohio State players that are now, that are football guys. Up until December 4th, the narrative was, oh, this just happened to wrestlers and, and, you know, swimmers and gymnastics.

No, no, no, no, no. This happened to, you think about elite athletes that competed at Ohio State football guys from 1978 to 1998, and you go through that list, there's some prominent guys on that list. Very prominent.

Michael, is it possible that, you know, like in the Catholic Church, it became a haven for this kind of behavior that was accepted? Is it possible that this college lured in or attracted in professors and teachers and, absolutely.

And even students, there weren't this kind of stuff.

At these, these college campuses, this is not the only scandal.

We, there's a, there's a case just like ours at Indiana that started up under Bobby Knight, the Dr. Bomba Michigan State, we know now Penn State, these universities across the country, and Columbia has their case with the gynecologist.

USC, it's all of these universities have protected sexual predators for centuries. And why should we be surprised? These are the same, these are the same people who believed that, that, that, that believed it was OK for almost 100 years to not pay athletes to play the most dangerous game in the world.

And when they, and just recently, when now, now they're being, you know, forced to, to start to compensate, oh, $20 million, we're going to give these schools to spend on NIL.

They act like that. See, oh, my God, we can't believe we have to do this. These guys are Jim Ohio State University spends $8 billion, they have an $8 billion budget and a $9 billion endowment, the largest public endowment for college in the country.

And that, that those numbers don't happen unless Ohio State football, they, if it happened because of athletics, Ohio State built their brand on the back of athletes and to think for over 100 years, not only did they build, they, but they did not protect those athletes from a serious sexual predator exploitation on every level financially.

I mean, these guys that this is who these people are and our fight here locally is we, we are not going to be governed anymore by a serial criminal pedophile sex traffic.

Now Michael, we only have a couple of minutes.

That's what's been happening.

What is wigsit.org, wigsit.org.

Well, it's a website that we, that we set up, you know, there was a, there was a rally a couple of weeks ago that, you know, wigsit is a, is a spin on Brexit.

It's basically a mantra to, we need to, we need to separate from this serial criminal pedophile sex trafficker.

Um, that's to, you know, the, the WExner's names on all buildings, the hospital, they had the audacity to in 2007 to, to put his name on the football practice facility inside the Woody Hayes Athletic Center.

Um, and I want to tell you how this went down.

In 2005, Jeffrey Epstein approached the university and the athletic director Jean Smith, the same Jean Smith that terminated my license, who doesn't really care about athletes as it has been part of the system that's exploited athletes for, for years.

He, he negotiated a contract and entered into contract contract, contractual relationship with Jeffrey Epstein to, to purchase the naming rights of the football practice facility inside the Woody Hayes Athletic Center after less WExner.

Epstein negotiated the contract it called for a $5 million gift that was that had to be paid by 2007.

But the end of the contract in 2005, they, they consummate the payment was made in 20 2007, 2005, as you know, is the same time that the, that an investigation was opened up in Palm Beach County about WExner or about Epstein, you know, sexually assaulting dozens of girls.

Thousands, no more than 30 yet. I mean, we're talking 60, 70 girls and, and that's, so that's happening in 2005 in 2006, he's actually charged with one count as we know what's that, that Robert Acosta, you know, bullshit plea deal that they, that they went into.

That was 2006 in 2007, despite the fact that Ohio State officials knew that this was who he, this dude was and, and frankly, they knew it before this because he's been operating in broad daylight and Columbus, Ohio and New Albany, Ohio.

Again, remember Jeff free Epstein has, as it relates to Glynemax, he literally ran New Albany, so they knew who this guy was, and they allowed him to cut a check for $2.5 million out of his own 501c3.

And it was the check was from him and doors by him and the university cashed it despite the fact that they knew he had been charged credibly charged with sexually assaulting a 14 year old.

Now, we showed up at the Woody Hayes Athletics Center in December of last year with a copy of the check or $2.5 million that the university tried to suggest what that really wasn't his money.

It was really Wexner's money, but you know, so came through. Well, that's interesting.

First of all, you understand tax law. The minute you give a donation to a charity, it's not your money.

Sure, Mr. Wexner took a, you know, took a tax benefit from making a donation to Jeffrey Epstein's, it was Jeffrey Epstein's foundation, Jeffrey Epstein entered in the contractual relationship.

And he made any cut the check his names on the check. We showed up to the university with, you know, with the the check in hand at large size.

And we had, you know, we for the first time, this is December 17th of last year.

We showed up not just a bunch of wrestlers. We now had over 12 former players from Ohio State and about four players at Michigan, because Michigan, although Michigan, Ohio State on the field, arrivals.

When it comes to the athletes who competed, you know, from those eras, we share something really not so fun to share.

And that is the fact that our, our, we were subjected to serial criminal pedophile sex traffickers who are abusing us on a daily basis.

And it happened not just here, it happened at Michigan. So when you think about it, the two largest sexual elite sexual, elite male athlete sexual abuse cases, happened at the Ohio State University and the University of Michigan.

Who would have thought?

Michael, we are at a time where actually over time we've been talking to Michael and the sabato, right? And the organization is called wexit.org. And Michael, we got to have you back with more of this.

And there's a font of information here and I can't thank you enough.

Thanks, Adam. Appreciate your time. Best wishes always.

Thank you, sir. Good night.

Thank you.