The Tucker Carlson Show - Leaked Police Interrogation Footage of Netanyahu, and How He Cowers Behind War to Keep Power

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Alex Kimney, thank you very much for doing this.

So, for all the years that Benjamin Netanyahu has been in the American media.

I think there's very little sense in the US about his domestic troubles in Israel.

We keep hearing he's been charged and the President of the United States keeps saying he needs to be pardoned.

You've made this documentary that explains what is at the core of this controversy.

Like, what are the charges? What is he accused of doing? Did he do it?

So, I'm going to stand back and just let you if you would outline what Benjamin Netanyahu has been accused of doing.

Well, roughly speaking, you'd say it was bribery or you'd say it was corruption.

I mean, and I can detail the charges.

This is a film that I produced and was directed by Alexis Bloom.

And back in 2023, I got a strange message on signal from somebody who said that they had all of the police interrogation videos from the Benjamin Netanyahu investigation.

And they had been investigating Netanyahu since 2016 for charges of corruption.

It was to say, trading on his position as Prime Minister to get money in all sorts of favors, jewelry for his wife, very expensive Cuban cigars, hundreds of millions of dollars in forgiveness of certain loans in order to be able to get favorable coverage on a news website called Walla.

So, it was a pretty interesting case. And it went from the very small meaning, you know, very expensive Cuban cigars from a rather famous movie producer named Arnon Milchand to something very big, which is effectively a $250 million financial arrangement in exchange for good coverage for Netanyahu.

So, it was a pretty big deal.

So, what did the, so you got the tapes, let me just ask, to the extent you can say, where did they come from?

I can't say where they came from.

I can't say anything about the source, but what I can say is we got over a thousand hours of tapes.

And these were interviews with Netanyahu himself by the police, also Netanyahu's wife, Sara, his son, Yahir, also with a number of key people close to Netanyahu.

For example, near Heffetz, his former head of communications, Sheldon Adelson, who we know in this country as a billionaire, now deceased, his wife, Miriam Adelson, Arnon Milchand, a famous Israeli businessman, arms dealer, who also became a very famous motion picture producer.

So, it was a kind of an extraordinary array of evidence. And while some of this evidence had been published in Israel in written form,

nobody had seen the tapes. And the tapes are very revealing, particularly for Netanyahu, because Netanyahu tries to cultivate this image of the grand vizier, the great statesman of Israel.

Here you see a rather petty corrupt man, desperately lying to save his skin, and his wife, who is a deeply entitled woman, trying to claim that, so what if we got stuff?

I mean, we deserve it, because we're doing so much for the nation and for the world, and his son, Yahir, who is also extremely entitled screaming at the police yelling, you know, you're like the stassy.

So, it was an illuminating look at the actual character behind the facade, sort of like that moment in the Wizard of Oz, where, you know, Toto pulls back the curtain, and the Wizard says, please, pay no attention.

It was really revealing.

If you can, and I think people watching this will watch the film, but I'm interested in your take having watched a thousand hours of this, what is it?

Can you go more deeply into what do you think it reveals about the prime minister and his character?

Well, I think it reveals, I think a kind of deep-seated corruption, a willingness to do almost anything to save his skin.

I think that he became possessed of the election in 2015 of a sense of enormous arrogance that he was now the man, because he came back from what seemed to be a defeat to an enormous victory.

And now he had this sense of entitlement.

Interestingly, then he began to, you know, cash in on that entitlement, and he was caught.

But what happened then was that rather, you know, as he heard the sound of the possibility of the jail door slamming shut on him, he began to start to do things that really took Israel in a very dark direction.

The first thing he tried to do was to essentially fix the Department of Justice.

He tried to engage in a series of, this is before October 7th, he tried to engage in a series of reforms of the judicial system, which would weaken the power of the judiciary in Israel.

Most likely, because that would undermine the case against it. That's the most direct likely outcome.

But the other thing was that by this time he had formed a government with an extremely right-wing coalition with a guy named Ben Gavir, who was head of national security and a guy named Smotrik, who is a head of the finance.

They are extremely right-wing, extremely anti-Palestinian, and their designs were to expand illegal settlements in the West Bank.

And in some cases, well, well, it was already a dire situation for Palestinians on the West Bank.

Nevertheless, there would be judicial orders, which would sometimes get in the way of that. That was another aspect of this.

Well, when Netanyahu tried to fix the judiciary, the country rose up, and it was in a huge uproar over these changes, which were fundamentally undermining Israel's democracy.

Not too long after, of course, there was the terrible attack by Hamas on October 7th, which shocked Israel.

What people began to learn was that for years, Netanyahu, again, I think, as part of the way he sees the world and as part of a kind of more generalized sense of corruption, had been trying to modulate the relationship with Hamas.

And indeed, had been allowing millions and millions of dollars to flow to Hamas from Qatar, sometimes in bags of cash traveling through Israel.

And the reason he was doing that was to undermine the Palestinian Authority on the West Bank in order to be able to allow for his right wing coalition to get more and more territory by a settlement.

So all sorts of strange corrupt deals were happening. But then I think that post 10, 7, which was a terrible moment. I don't want to minimize it in any way.

It was a horrific attack. And we show some of that attack in the film. But he then launched an attack on Gaza, which was so beyond any sense of proportionality.

Now we have at least over 75,000 people dead. Of course, now we have an Iran war and 11 on war and so forth and so on. But one of the goals, I'm convinced and not me, but all of the witnesses who are, you know, very reputable members of the security establishment in Israel in the film indicate that part of the, the, the enduring

ferocity savagery of the war was due to becoming a wartime president who could then not be prosecuted or successfully prosecuted for the crimes he had committed the trial, the not only the investigation, but now there's been a trial that the trial is still ongoing.

This is 10 years after the investigation started. So so long as he's the commander in chief and he's waging war, how dare you attack the president. So so in a way, this kind of vinyl personal corruption that starts with cigars and and pink champagne for which they had code names, you know, and then evolves into

corrupt deals relating to the media becomes a mechanism by which slowly but surely the corruption got greater and greater until it became a moral corruption in which the world is now engulfed.

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There were there were people in Israel in public right after October 7th which clear was committed by Hamas and was clearly terrible agree with that want to be clear.

But there were a bunch of people including people I knew who said wait a second.

You know this couldn't have happened if the government of Israel had really tried to prevent it okay so there's something very strange about the ability of Hamas fighters on motorbikes and gliders and on foot coming across the most heavily guarded border in the world in the delay in the response of the IDF to this like what is this and it's almost forbidden to say that as you know in the United States but tell me what people you spoke to in Israel now believe about that attack.

I should point out that when when you say I spoke to I mean the person who directed the film was Alexis Blume I got the footage Alexis of course I'm asking you to speak for the film.

Sure sure no problem in any event I think there were a lot of people who felt that proper investigation into what Netanyahu knew about the possible and pending attack by Hamas should be commenced.

However that got rolled under their carpet because of the fact that he's now in a war with Hamas I mean Hamas doesn't really have an air see you can't properly call the war.

But I think there was a lot of talk about how much and what advanced warning Netanyahu may have had about the October 7 attacks I've never seen you know prima facie evidence of that fact but there's certainly a lot of talk about in Israel.

Okay so it's not just crazy people on the internet who think it's possible or likely that Benjamin Netanyahu knew this was coming had some sense it was coming didn't do his best to prevent the damage within Israel.

Because he was in this politically tough spot and the ensuing war would take the attention off him and allow him.

I personally think it may be a bit too cynical to think that that that he literally engendered an attack in order to counter attack but I do think that he had diluted himself in part because he he thought of the world as a series of deals he had diluted himself and into the idea that he had manipulated Hamas and all the money that's flowing to Hamas.

Yeah you know wasn't going to go to weapons and and preparing an attack I mean he kept saying what's the phrase it's in the film that he could control the height of the flames by by the introduction of money.

And he also found father when he saw into the police he says keep your friends close and your enemies closer as if he was the dawn and sort of able to manipulate events but he clearly was not.

That seems like a smart interpretation to him of course I don't know but that that sounds that sounds plausible entirely possible so then October 7th happens I think most Israelis are genuinely shocked that it happened.

And they're horrified and a lot of the world is genuinely shocked and horrified including me.

But then this war begins in Gaza or this leveling of Gaza this mass murder in Gaza and then it expands to a lot of the region to Lavant and now into Iran.

Is it too cynical to think that one of the motives there from the prime minister is to just keep moving forward because if he stops he gets arrested.

Well it may be a little bit too cynical I mean maybe Netanyahu's wanted to attack Iran for years in fact they did another film about that subject called zero days.

So but but I do think that what's the momentum of war began and and I would say also that to some extent the momentum of war began to have a certain popular impact among the populace in Israel too that now there was an opportunity to go after more enemies.

So and it had the byproduct of course as long as there's war as long as the permanent war Netanyahu never be held to account so once again I think it may be a bit too cynical to say he attacked Iran so we wouldn't go to jail but I think it had been a long standing desire for Netanyahu to want to really go after Iran.

And now both once he'd started to warn Gaza but also I think with the Trump administration coming to power in 2024 suddenly he had an opportunity.

Yeah that that sounds right to me so what how is he regarded the prime minister in Israel it's it's hard to know if you're not there what's your view.

I agree I think it's fair to say that there is a robust group of people who are vehemently anti Netanyahu and believe he's destroying Israel and destroying democracy in Israel and indeed making the country a pariah worldwide I would agree with that point of view.

So however I would also say that war has a peculiar effect on people and can engender a sense of nationalism which I believe is rising not only a sense of nationalism but that nationalism undergirded by the undertow of victimhood.

So so Netanyahu is very much using that and I think it would be a mistake to think that he's unpopular we'll find out very soon you know when elections happen but but I think that as long as you're waging war people tend to rally around the commander in chief which I think is is both a cynical ploy by Netanyahu and also a long standing goal of his to be able to wage war across the Levant and expand Israel's power.

Did you get a sense of his of his religious views I think of Netanyahu is well honestly is pretty American and Western and secular but in his I mean the first statement he gave after Warner on began he began with today's Torah portion and he's been saying things like that a lot do you have an opinion on what he thinks what his his spiritual views are.

It's hard for me to say I mean I think that to some extent I see him more as a politician now I don't have access to what his real views are but when you hear politicians.

Quoting scripture in effect it tends to be for the reason that they're trying to undergird their policies with the force of God.

It's an old script and I think Netanyahu knows very well that it's an effective one that would be my my god I really don't know or have any insight into what he believes when he's alone in a room what is relationship is with God.

Yeah well we can't know but it does seem like the country is changing fast that's my perception is a visitor it's not a good it's not a good thing and you we can also see that that this hard right wing faction has has wreaked havoc on the on the west back and except you know settlements are expanding a pace.

In a really reprehensible way there's lots of you know it's sort of out of the public eye but that I think was the one of the goals from the beginning you know with reckoning with Hamas and all of this stuff but also you know because Netanyahu in order to stay in power another corrupt deal he makes a deal with the hard right and then goes very hard right it's not like he was ever a peacenic but now he goes very very very hard right and

at the great expense of the lives and livelihoods of many Palestinians.

Yeah I don't know if it's right or not I'm on the right and I hate this I hate violence and there were reports this morning of in the Israeli press of mass rapes of Palestinians by settlers in the West Bank so like I think that's just a degree of violence by that by by settlers on Palestinians in the West Bank is repatience I mean it's yeah and it goes on the

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So since you're the producer of this film do you want to ask you about your your experience so you you come into possession of a thousand hours of tape which is not public.

You're not saying understandably exactly how you got it but it's real.

What I mean probably a lot of people don't want you to make that into a documentary and air it so what was your experience of that.

That's where to say and indeed when you know we tried to produce the film in secret I had some able help us I mean not only was Alexis bloom with extraordinary talented woman directing it but in Israel you know we're aided by a guy named Revive Drucker who is a noted journalist in Israel helped us contextualize some of this stuff but we had a sense that we had to keep it secret while we were making it and then we sort of launched an event.

And at the Toronto Film Festival in 2024 it was a work in progress because we felt at that moment this kind of thing needed to be seen on Netanyahu himself went to court in Israel to try to stop the.

The premier of the film at Toronto he was utterly unsuccessful but I should know also that the American media played a kind of unseemly role in the sense that we were we went to NBC first and we're going to do a rather big piece in advance of the.

The premier in Toronto and then we were told of the last minute that oh NBC has decided that we're not going to do the story because it would probably upset Netanyahu and that would limit our access to the prime minister they said that yes they said that to me that's correct.

What not what I would regard as a deeply courageous move by by a journalistic organization.

Yeah I mean I think journalistic is is probably too strong but wow I'm just I mean I've worked at that company I'm just surprised that they were as blunt as they were to you what did you say.

I was just shocked I mean because I was ready to I was ready to do an interview I believe was Andrea Mitchell you know I was shocked and you know part of the reckoning was it was both both Craven and bad journalistically but also sort of corrupt in the sense that they they suggested that they might have gone with it if they themselves had discovered.

The police interrogation videos but they weren't going to risk their capital with Netanyahu for something that they themselves didn't discover the idea of the public good or the public reckoning didn't didn't seem to be part of the equation it was a very disappointing moment.

Probably not that surprising I mean in general the coverage of what happens there is well non-existent or not consistent with reality in the United States but did you pause at all before embarking on this once you got the tapes do you think maybe it's not a good idea long term for me to get involved in something like this.

No I felt it was really important because it the those tapes once I was able to verify them and to to and to understand them better I felt a shed really important light on a vital figure in world politics that's in y'all and so it seemed to me that that's my job when I find out important information.

It's about public figures that shed light on on on on wars and and and and how we reckon with the world that that it's it's my job to to get that story out so I actually didn't pause but it took a while to figure out because I'm not a network you know I'm an independent filmmaker and it took a while to figure out how to raise the money how to and also to do it in secret so that nobody would

subpoena the tapes or you know prevent me from from getting to the end so you know we Alexis and I had to proceed you know for some time in secret but you know it was I felt it was really important material and really important to get it out.

Good for you how hard was it to raise the money it was hard but but not as it as it turns out impossible so and there were a number of people

who also once they were able to to see a little bit of of what we had came forward and and and and helped so so yeah we were able to do it I mean it was but it was it was it was it was mining a different source it wasn't the traditional way where you go to your bureau chief and you say please give me the resources of the corporation and let's go get this story.

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Do you expect any consequences going forward I mean I presumably you hope to make other films let's make it harder.

I don't know.

I think that we live in a moment where people all over the world including in this country are making it difficult for independent voices to be heard.

So yeah I reckon with that but I feel like even though and I'm glad you you know TCN is showing baby files on its on its network and it has had you know pretty good international distribution the distribution here has been somewhat handicapped but can you tell us about that what I mean it seems like.

Even if I disagreed with your views which I don't know that I do I don't think I do but I would stop at you have relevant information that's real about one of the key players in global politics so like that alone.

Justifies this in my opinion and so the idea that you would have distribution problems in the United States is a little scary and I'd love to know more about what those problems are.

I think one of the problems is that the market in general is controversy a verse you know you have a number of streamers who don't want to upset their their viewers you have news organizations which in this case as I as I documented you know also didn't want to be on on the wrong side of an issue that might upset people I mean it seems to me that the job you know because I do think that four years ago.

Roughly speaking you know if I had gone out into the marketplace with the baby files there would have been a bidding war but now it's kind of just the opposite it's like we don't want to do anything that might upset people because then they won't buy sneakers or they won't buy iPads you know so that's part of it and I think part of it is that.

Controversially as we come problematic and also powerful political figures are exerting influence on broadcasting outlets to to the line and sometimes if you're not you know you don't have a regular show you don't get a hearing so it's a problem it's a really big problem I think the you know well I'm I'm critical of the mainstream press particularly in this in this instance you know I believe

strong in the idea of a free press yes and and and deeply upset about the way of not only netting I did in Israel but the way the Trump administration is trying to suppress a free press in his country so it's a dark time for this how long have you been doing this kind of thing.

Well that's a good question um you know I guess I've been doing it I've been an independent a freelance since some.

Cheese since the 1980s so somehow some way I've been you know managing to scrape by I'm and I've never really worked for an organization except for the small company that is chigsaw productions which is my company says.

Have you ever seen an environment this difficult for someone who wants to present newsworthy inherently newsworthy material like the tapes in this documentary.

Not really the there was another period in the late nineties um in this country I remember trying to do a film about was critical of Henry Kissinger and I had an easy the BBC was was actually heroic in that instance but I could find no finders here is only by going to.

Um I think we played at the film form for something like three months that finally it allowed because it was that entertainment allowed a broadcaster show it was difficult then but it's much more fraught now I think it's very very very hard to get independent voices.

Um hurt it's it's all it's really unprecedented my experience this moment yeah well thank you that's certainly my feeling but I don't have the for the 40 your perspective that you do so.

But I admire your dedication to a free press your bravery in doing this and your willingness to explain it to us into air it on t-shirt so thank you very much ox kidney thank you chocker.