The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Detransitioner Speaks Out on Gender Medicine & Regret

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Welcome to the Tutoredics and Podcast.

We have a very interesting story today.

We are actually blessed to have a treat, a detransitioner with us

to kind of walk us through how this is happening to kids

and why she's speaking out about it now.

It actually has a lot to do with love.

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Today, I have Soren Aldaco with me.

She is a D-transitioner who is suing her medical providers in Texas.

She's also the Texas ambassador for independent women.

This is very interesting.

What I've seen from you,

I just want to say first and foremost, Soren,

you are so brave because people are not willing to do this.

So thank you so much for talking about this.

Yeah, thank you.

Thank you for having me.

I've watched, I saw that you were on with Laura Ingraham

before we got on.

We were talking about it's such a hard subject

because I do think that there are a lot of people who think

that anyone who comes out and says,

hey, my experience was not good,

is doing it for like the shock and awe of it.

But when you drill down into some of these stories,

people need to absolutely hear the truth.

And on this podcast, we've been kind of brutally open about

doctors have made decisions for children

that have caused them lifelong pain and suffering.

Yeah, yeah, that's absolutely true.

And that's the unfortunate part as it is lifelong,

even though those decisions take minutes sometimes.

So that's very interesting.

One of the reasons I think that I've taken an interest

in protecting kids is I am a breast cancer survivor.

So I'm also someone who added double mastectomy

in my situation was obviously like,

you know, do this or you're going to die.

And I feel like they told you that too,

but it was different, you know.

But I also know what it is like to be on the other side of that.

And that is, it is a loss and it's a suffering.

And it's an unnecessary loss for you.

Yeah, absolutely.

And unfortunately, you're not the first breast cancer survivor

who's had a double mastectomy that I've met.

Who's expressed that similar sentiment of,

you know, I know what you went through,

yet yours was unnecessary.

And you were told the same things I was.

That's an unfortunate commonality.

And I will say at the time, right, it felt joyful

because of the way that the culture was telling me

I needed this thing and the way that I had internalized

that telling.

But now that I'm on the other side and I've detransitioned,

I'm about four and a half years out from that now.

It's definitely a morning that I feel like

only other women who have gone through this

can really understand and resonate with.

It really is.

I think that the, we've heard a lot,

we've heard a lot from detransitioners,

but I think the thing that has been striking to me.

And I think you've spoken about this too,

is suddenly that story has been,

people seem to be a little bit more open about

when they started into this world,

when they got involved in this world.

There was a real strong sexualization from adults

that was pulling them in.

Tell us a little bit about that.

I think for a lot of us, it starts with early sexualization.

I know that for me being a part of Gen Z

and on the older side of that growing up

at the very beginnings of the World Wide Web,

it was easy to fall into the cracks where our parents maybe

had used AOL and been in chat rooms

but didn't understand where those chat rooms had gone

in the years since.

And so I was groomed when I was 11 years old

in online chat rooms.

And so that was the first sexualization.

And I think as I became more of an older adolescent

and a young adult,

the way that there was so much focus on my body parts

and in needing to change these surgically and hormonally,

I think that it's a different kind of sexualization,

but you make a great point that in a sense,

it's a sexualization nonetheless.

That there is this psychological,

psychiatric experience that a young person is having

and all of this then becomes about their body parts.

And maybe they introduced that idea

and sometimes unfortunately it's introduced by clinicians.

That's been what's striking to me lately

because ultimately it seems interesting

that the push is that you want to change yourself

so that you are physically attractive differently

but also sexually and then ultimately this change

in many cases makes it so that you can never actually have

a sexual relationship.

It's bizarre.

It's about aesthetics and unfortunately the impact of

pursuit of those aesthetics is not itself aesthetic, right?

Yeah, you're right.

It's much deeper than the surface.

It has been stunning to me.

So I was listening to I was on Spring Break last week

and sometimes you know you're like doom scrolling

and I came across this young man who was talking

about the Supreme Court's decision on conversion therapy

which the Supreme Court just came out and said that this is,

you know, this suppresses people's First Amendment rights

and so therefore you can't ban conversion therapy.

His story is interesting and I know you know him, Johnny Skinner.

I found it very interesting because he talked about the fact

that he came from a very religious home

and in the area that he lived in grew up in

which I think is pretty close to where I am.

And so I understand this.

It's like a kind of like the Bible belt of the Midwest.

And so he was this young gay boy and that was unacceptable.

So they pushed him into doctors that then immediately said,

well, you'd be more comfortable as a woman.

So then you don't have to be gay which is interesting

because he is speaking against people trying

to get around what the Supreme Court did.

So he's still saying there should not be a ban

on conversion therapy because he feels

that they were trying to convert him from gay to trans.

Even though he comes from a household

where they clearly were very faithful

and that it was not exactly a welcoming place for being gay,

but I think that pushed his family into this position

where they were like, okay, well, then he could agree with the doctor

that then he could be a wife.

So it's just such a harsh message to wrap your mind around.

Yeah, there's definitely a lot of gymnastics

and I've not gotten the opportunity to talk to Johnny's parents

so I don't know precisely what they were thinking

but from my conversations with him,

that sentiment of I'm going to be better off this way

I can be normal this way.

It's unfortunately one that's not exclusive to him.

I mean, we see this in the Middle East, for example,

some countries and cultures there will be okay with transition

but have death penalties and really severe punishments

for homosexuality.

So being able to appear as if you are a normal heterosexual

individual, it's worth it to them sacrificing

some of that sexual ability that you mentioned before

or even just the overall health,

which is what Johnny talks about a lot.

It's really interesting to hear

because we've been, it's kind of been drilled into us

that to be supportive of the LGBTQ or even the gay community,

you have to be very pro-trans

and yet here we are finding out that in some cases trans

has been very anti-gay.

Yeah, I think for what's interesting here is there's almost two sides

or two components rather.

There's the component of being outright against the being gay

and the homosexuality and I think underneath that

there's the second concern around people just

existing outside of the clear-cut norms for their particular sex.

So even if they're not gay, being a man who is more expressive

and prefers to wear flowy clothing or being a woman

who wants to play sports past that tomboyishness

that many girls experience in their early teens.

So I think that it's definitely a little bit of both

the homosexuality and the gender non-conformity

and it's unfortunate it becomes medicalized.

So tell us your story because it seems like it can also be a situation

where puberty is just hard.

It's just a hard time and in you mentioned that you had access to chat rooms

that certainly my generation, that wasn't a thing.

You know, so I think in many cases

my generation doesn't know how to shepherd our kids through this

and your generation is getting pulled into some dark places

that predators are there.

I mean, there is a reality that there are predators also

and maybe it's maybe you don't feel like it was predators.

Tell me your story. Do you feel like there were predators there?

Yeah, there were absolutely predators there

and you make an interesting point too about your generation

not really being familiar with these chat rooms.

I remember my mom and my biological father actually met over AOL

and what's funny is back then it was people in your locality.

It was people somewhat nearby to you.

It just makes me laugh because like I can remember the sound of

dialing up to AOL like, you know, and that was so dark

and compared to what you see.

I'm sorry, I interrupted you, but no, you're fine.

And you're, but that's a great point because the chat rooms

I was getting into were on my 3DS.

They were on my handheld Nintendo device.

No, what?

Yeah, they were.

How? I didn't even know there was a thing.

That was a thing.

Yeah, so you have the DS, right, which was the first

after the Game Boy and then you have the DSI

where the eye stood for Internet.

The 3DS was just a DSI that had a 3D screen on the top.

But yeah, there was a browser and you could go anywhere and

there's parental controls, of course, one could apply, but

my mom was working all the time and my stepdad was disabled

and I was very bright.

So I put the parental controls on my own unit because

I didn't want to have screen limits, for example.

So that was where I was groomed, pictures, chats,

just really inappropriate stuff being taken advantage of

by predators.

What kind of stuff?

I mean, like, if you're a parent, what kind of stuff could

your kid, when you say pictures, they were sending you

pictures of like, this is what a transition is like

or other things?

No, well, this was before the trans identity.

This was almost what set me up for the trans identity.

They were soliciting me for pictures of myself.

And when I was roleplaying on my DS, like through drawings,

right, just anime characters, cartoons,

with other kids my age, maybe some older teens,

I didn't realize that when that platform was shut down in part

because adults were taking advantage of minors on it,

that the other chat rooms I would find were almost exclusively

those adults who were roleplaying the more highness,

the more adult things.

And so my love for anime, my love for cartoons,

was then taking advantage of it.

It started out with, okay, well, roleplay this anime with me.

Like, these characters from this anime too,

well, could you send me a photo of what we just roleplayed?

And it's totally fine for you to do.

It's just between us.

I mean, it's the pretty, it's the script we hear at culture

about how young people are groomed.

It starts very small.

And when you're little and you don't have the wisdom

to really discern in these moments, right?

Like adults have, it sneaks up on you.

It's like the frog being boiled.

I was in the pot.

And so feeling discomfort with my body following that experience,

which is totally understandable.

That's not a disordered response to that experience at all.

I was harmed.

I wanted to prevent further harm.

I hid myself.

I became friends with another little girl who we e-dated.

We considered each other our girlfriends

in a romantic relationship.

And she began identifying as trans.

And the way she described it as just feeling really uncomfortable

with her body.

And in particular, uncomfortable with the female role,

that really, really resonated with me.

Which is not an uncommon response to having been abused.

And essentially, what you are describing

is an adult abusing you.

And then becoming uncomfortable with your body

because you think, like, this is why.

I mean, there's like this internalizing of they wanted this.

So I feel like I need to cover this and make myself

unappealing so it doesn't happen again.

And it's not necessarily a conscious understanding of that.

But I think that is kind of how the human psyche protects you.

Yes, absolutely.

That is a well-known under, well-understood thing

within psychology.

Yet it seems to be an exception here,

or the way that transgender identity is treated.

So how did that, how did you then jump to?

Do you think that the girlfriend that you had online

was then, you kind of thought, well,

if she is identifying as trans,

then maybe that's something that I can do as well?

Yeah, that's exactly where I thought was,

okay, this is a type of person.

And someone close to me, who I relate to.

Because at that age, a lot of, at least in my experience,

my attraction to other little girls,

was this girl is like me, I really like her.

I want to be like her.

And I misinterpreted that as the same attraction

that adults have to one another.

But nonetheless, I did see a lot of myself in her.

So when she came to that realization,

just like with any other socially contagious thing,

you realized this is a possibility for you.

And in some cases, you adopt it.

It's interesting.

So you do feel that it was a social contagion.

Because when I was in my teens and 20s,

there was quite a bit of anorexia going around,

especially in college, and it would be,

and you could actually, in my,

I didn't live in my sorority house,

but there were rooms of like two,

and then there were rooms of four or five girls.

And there were some of the rooms

where both people or all five were extraordinarily unhealthy and skinny.

And in you knew it was happening,

you knew it became a competition of like,

who could be more, who could eat less?

Who could, and I just wonder if that is almost a similar thing

with this, which is also psychological.

You know, these are, we're talking about two

psychological disorders here where you can become very competitive,

which seems weird, but it is a fact that it can become competitive.

Do you think that it's like the transgender thing is like,

I'm just as transgender as you,

is there something kind of in the back of your mind

that's trying to make sure that you're keeping up with the other?

I think subconsciously for a lot of people,

yes, I know that that was true in my case.

And when you look at just the general psychology of young girls

and teenagers and women, there is that subconscious competition.

And it's not out of the ordinary.

It makes a lot of sense when you look at our evolutionary history

and our, just position as a species.

We are socially contagious on everything from yawning to divorce, right?

And divorce is socially contagious up to two degrees separate from you.

So a friend of a friend getting divorced

could influence your own decisions there.

And so when it came to body dysmorphia

and gender dysphoria in my case, which is very similar, right?

With the anorexia stuff, it's all focused on the body

and how the body isn't right and how you can do certain things

to make that body better.

Those girls that were in your sorority

probably weren't directly saying,

oh, I can eat less than you.

It was likely that subconscious comparison of,

I think, as good as this other person.

I need to have it as figured out.

I need to be as in control of my narrative,

of being my true authentic self.

And yeah, that wasn't exclusive to me.

So then you started hormone replacement therapy.

You were 17 when that started?

I was 17, yes.

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So really, you're talking about those formative years,

I mean, all through middle school and high school,

you're kind of struggling with identity,

which I think generally people of that age

are struggling with what they're going to be

and how they're forming and how they're going through puberty.

But you're actually kind of losing those years

to this concern of, like, should I be a different gender?

Yeah, and what's interesting there

is that's actually my research background.

I'm a graduate student, I study human development,

and there's this really cool theorist, James Marcia,

who talks about it in terms of identity crisis,

how it's very typical for adolescents

to try on many hats to engage deeply

with different identities to figure out what they like most.

And in some cases, identity becomes foreclosed.

You accept an identity very early on

to the point that it doesn't let you explore.

We see this with child actors, right?

Who begin in their career

when they're sometimes 11, 12, 13 years old.

And then when they turn 18 or 19

and they have control over themselves,

like, you know, the crap hits the fan

and all of a sudden they're like twerking

or doing all these other absurd things.

And I think transgender identity functions

like that for many of us.

So how did you get to, I mean, this is happening online.

You at some point have to tell your parents,

I want to go get this hormone replacement therapy

or that I'm going to start identifying as a boy

going from the online to eventually having your breasts removed

is a big deal.

How did the conversations with doctors go?

That's a great question

because it did stay very diffuse for a while

that trans identity for me when I was 11, 12, right?

This was in role play environments largely.

Sometimes with other kids at school,

eventually some teachers calling you my preferred name,

but nothing anything too serious.

And when I met my biological father

and my stepmom for the first time at age 15,

that was when things became serious.

I had this big fight with my stepdad, right?

He was disabled and I wanted to drive the car home.

I was learning how to drive

and he couldn't deal with the pain that day

of how a teenager drives.

They all know we're not that great.

And so I went to the hospital, I was freaking out.

And while inpatient, I spoke to a psychiatrist

who was there to evaluate me and see what drugs

they needed to put me on and all of that.

And I remember he pointed out that the name

on my chart was different from the name on the door.

And I mean, I'm sitting there, I have short hair,

I have a nose ring that I've hidden up inside my nose,

I'm wearing a chest binder, big ol' hoodie.

It's obvious, something's up with me.

And he pushes and he pushes.

And I'm thinking, okay, I'm not gonna talk

about the trans thing until I'm an adult.

I don't want my parents to know.

I don't think they would ever entertain that idea.

So I'm gonna do whatever interventions I want to do

when I'm an adult on my own.

And he doesn't really accept my lack of answer

and he pushes and we get to talking about the summer camp

that I went to growing up.

It was this gifted kid summer camp

through Duke University.

And there I was living fully as a boy.

I mean, I was being housed with the girls,

but I was being included in the boys' activities,

all the counselors and students called me he, him,

and my boy name.

And when we got to talking about that, you know,

he said, you know, some people, some people,

they don't identify necessarily with their gender

and you can tell me and it's,

I don't remember the exact words, but he very much,

like I knew what he was asking of me.

And when I asked him, you know,

you're not gonna tell my parents, right?

Like if I tell you right now, can it be between us?

And he said, yes, and I made that disclosure.

He turned around and he told my parents anyway.

And he told them in fact that all of my problems

at my depression and such were related to my transgender,

identity, and though my mom and my stepdad,

who had raised me, put their foot down within the family

and said, no, we thought maybe she'd be attracted to girls,

but this boy thing is too much.

My dad and my stepmom started to affirm that identity

and we're taking me to support groups,

which ultimately fruited in a nurse practitioner

who is going to those support groups.

Wait, so this all happened the same day

you met your biological dad for the first time.

Within a month, I was going to the hospital

and then within the next two years,

I met them at 15, turned 16 freshly after.

That was when I medically transitioned.

And no psychologist at that time said,

there's a lot going on in your life right now.

You are not only going through puberty,

but you're just meeting your biological father

for the first time.

And I mean, that is a very natural response

to have anger towards your stepfather when you are,

and I'm sure the meeting was kind of accelerating and exciting.

What was, I mean, so how does any professional not say,

I'm just like mind blown that this feels very much like a betrayal.

Like they took advantage of the situation

that you were in in your life and pushed you instead of,

and this is where I think like the conversations

and talk therapy, not from the standpoint of like,

let me talk you into something else,

but just talk about what's going on.

Talk about what was like to meet your father for the first time.

I feel like there should have been some discussion

and understanding of what that was for you.

Yeah, and that's a great question.

And feel free to hop in because I'll tell you my story.

And if you have any questions, I'm happy to pause.

But I feel that way now in hindsight, right?

That it was obvious what was going on

and that it's incredible.

No one spoke up to the family, the family part of it, right?

What I think might have been happening

because there's a through line, right?

There's a through line within my providers

of them all having some kind of personal stakes

in the transgender identity,

whether that is an expaus in the case of my therapist

who wrote the letter from my mastectomy

or a trans child in the case of the nurse practitioner

who prescribed me hormones.

And I think even that first therapist I saw

right after being impatient,

she, I don't know that she had any personal stakes,

but she had this desire to let me lead the conversation.

There was a lot of white nighting.

If you know what that means, like this idea,

these people wanted to be saviors.

They wanted to do what was right.

And so there was no pause.

It was almost like they were scratching their own itch

of being a good person instead of being a good person

and asking the hard questions.

I mean, it's in the medical field,

it's almost like when you're an outsider

and you hear these stories,

it's like catching a rare butterfly

and they're like, we've got one.

We've got to, we've got the only one.

Now we can do something with it

and it's just like in their minds,

they can take you to that next level.

And it almost feels very experimental.

Yeah, it was, I was patient zero

in a lot of my circles.

I knew one other trans identified person

in person when I was in middle school

and when I went to high school, I was online.

So at that point, I don't know what happened.

Now I was in 2018, which I believe was the start

of what we saw peak during COVID, right?

As far as trans identification is concerned.

But I do feel like I was treated as exotic.

And a lot of trans activists point that out.

Like there is a lot of awareness

even within the trans community that, you know,

we're treated as those of us who go

for these treatments are treated as we're so special

and there's both a reverence for it, right?

And like, yeah, like we do need attention

and we do need you to listen to our voices

and our stories, but there's also the like,

can't we just be normal people?

It's that cognitive dissonance.

And, but doesn't also every 15 year old

want to be the main character of the story?

And so you're kind of playing into that.

Absolutely.

And that's what's dangerous is I think

one of the important parts of being

in a young person's life is setting them straight sometimes.

Like they need to be told no, they need to realize

there are boundaries, there are, you know, consequences

and that doesn't mean you have to be unnecessarily harsh

about it, but I find it compassionate to set limits

because limits are a reality of adulthood.

So you had the, your breasts removed at 19,

but now you're in your 20s and you've decided

that that was a mistake that that shouldn't have happened.

How did you get there?

I mean, this, because it seems like you're,

I mean, I look at this and I'm like,

you're very close to 19, you know?

So you're really mature.

I mean, something happened.

How did that, how did you realize

that it was not what you should have done?

I think for me, in the same way,

it was multiple pieces that came together

to form the picture of my trans identity.

It was multiple pieces that came together

to form the picture of my D transition.

So I was taking classes where I learned

about our species biologically,

I was taking classes where I learned about how culture forms

and how young people are really guided by role models

when it comes to figuring out who they are.

And I realized, okay, I don't really have

a whole lot of role models in my life, good or bad.

And I was getting most of that modeling from the internet.

So when you combine that with the mass of complications

I experienced following my mastectomy,

the fact that my doctors gaslit and then ghosted me

when the complications arose.

And I had to be treated ironically by breast oncologists,

people who do deal with vulnerable women all the time

in order to get healthy again, I realized, okay,

there is a lot of nefarious intention

with the money, with the insurance on the medical side.

And then culturally, there's a better path forward.

I don't have to change everything about myself to be myself.

And in fact, if I can put myself aside for a moment

I could be a role model for other little girls

and boys even in a way that I didn't have.

Did they put you on hormones?

Who?

The dot, when you were in your teenage years

when you were 15 and you started talking to these doctors

did they put you on, were you ever on hormones?

Yeah, I was on hormones at age 17,

that nurse practitioner that we met through the support group.

He gave them to me 30 minutes informed consent

without the consent of my biological mother

who is my only legal guardian.

What did you, what would your mom have said?

No, I mean, she knew about the trans identity

after that psychiatrist told her, right?

But she, I hadn't told her myself,

so she was gonna let it lie.

She was gonna let me tell her, and eventually I did.

And she expressed like, I believe you

and I don't understand it, I'm willing to support you,

but she never threw her all into enabling me.

She never took me to the support group,

she never took me to the doctor visit,

she never did any of those things

that facilitated the more permanent consequences.

As a mom of two teenage girls, I won't,

almost four because my twins are 12,

but I have a 14 year old and a 16 year old,

and I think people hear this and they go,

you know, how did mom not step in?

But what you just said to me is really powerful

because I think that when your kids are,

when your daughters especially are in those,

like 15 and beyond years, they're very defiant.

You know, that's the time when they are,

they are deciding what, I mean,

they're transitioning into adulthood,

and there's this, you know, natural separation

between you and your parents at that point,

and it can be hard, and I think as mom,

you are like, I don't want them to push me away,

so I'm not gonna rock the boat.

I'll get through this, we'll come back together,

you know, we're just, we're gonna see how this goes,

because I think a lot of people criticize parents

in these roles, and I understand that when the kid is two years old,

and mom is telling everybody that the kid is trans,

but I think that when a, especially,

I mean, as a mom of girls, when a 15 or 16 year old comes to you,

you're really cautious about how you approach this

to not drive them away.

Yeah, I think that that's exactly what my mom was thinking.

I think it's a little different for my stepmom,

and biological father, because they weren't present

in my life growing up, even that is a complex situation.

We see it all the time in families of divorce, right?

Where the children are almost triangulated

between the two sides, and so I have a lot of understanding

for that as well.

It's a difficult thing to be a parent,

and it's, you know, your first time being a person,

so I can definitely feel for them,

even though I do feel like they maybe made

some bad decisions along the way.

You think your stepmom made bad decisions?

I do.

I do think she made bad decisions,

and unfortunately, we're not in contact today,

because there was no ownership of those decisions,

at least in not in the way that I was ever accusatory,

but I think it's going to be really difficult

for the parents of these young people

who are transition young, who do facilitate the transition,

sometimes for very personal, sometimes selfish reasons,

to walk back, to admit harm,

to have that real heart to heart talk with children,

and especially because children are going to feel wrong.

When they realized that, you know,

maybe they were two years old, and their parents said yes

to puberty blockers and hormones before they could ever,

you know, get a car, get a driver's license.

But I think in that case, there were some bad decisions

made, especially when it came to being new in my life,

and making decisions that really needed the full context

of having been there before.

Did she have children?

She, I've won little sister, yes,

who was five years old, but I met her.

She's 10 years younger than me.

So it's, I think having that maternal instinct,

that was true, that was present, I think, though,

in some ways, and this goes back to,

I think some of the altruistic, I'll use that word right now.

Autruistic motivations of some of these individuals,

that not having been present in my life,

it almost made up for it to give me what I wanted

to do everything they could to make my life easier.

And that's the unfortunate cultural part we have

to pay attention to is that these parents,

even the ones who are affirming,

even the ones who make bad decisions,

who act sometimes selfishly,

they're being fueled by this lack of regard

for how the messaging we're seeing on social media,

how these big nonprofits, like the ACLU,

are talking about this issue.

That's where a lot of their irresponsibility lies,

in my opinion.

So when did you, after you had the surgery,

and then at some point you decided,

this isn't who I am, was it, when you really,

you said it was botched, what happened after the surgery?

I had really bad hematoma,

so just really bad pooling of blood in my chest,

I had a drain-free procedure,

which is only done on transgender patients,

it's not done on oncology patients for good health.

How's that even possible?

It's some suture method, I think,

and a lot of other surgeons who even do gender-forming

mastectomies have written out against it.

The one who helped with my follow-up care

had written papers advising against that methodology,

but when the complications arose

and the blood was trapped in my chest

and I was getting an infection, I had a fever

and I just, I felt horrible.

And I reached out to my providers,

they insisted, you know, like, I don't know what's wrong here,

I don't know what you want me to see,

and they didn't really take it seriously whatsoever.

I had four drains.

Yeah, I mean, it's the same surgery.

Yeah, and that was what,

that was the shock that I felt

from the breast oncology team

who ended up helping stabilize me.

They had to cut my scars back open

and so in Pinro's drains,

which is a very primitive form of drain

and not the one you would typically have following these surgeries,

but I had to self-express that blood

for my chest cavity for another week.

And it just, it totally,

I think in that moment, seeing their shock,

it was one of those seeds that was planted for me.

That, okay, this is real medicine,

we're treating it as cosmetic.

It goes back to that what we were talking about

at the very beginning, right?

This idea that it's medical procedures

driven by aesthetics,

but far from aesthetic and their outcome,

it's not surface level, it's real,

you know, cuts you're making into your,

your otherwise healthy body in my case.

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I'm keeping you too long,

and your story is so fascinating.

I just want to really quick say you,

so you've started to speak out against this.

What is your message?

I know that anybody who speaks out against it,

you get a lot of hate,

and there's a lot of anger toward detransitioners.

I've seen it online.

Why, you've gone through so much in your young life.

Why push so hard now to try to talk to other people

about why you have detransitioned?

Well, I've been passionate about having conversations

my entire life.

I think now that I've gotten some of that wisdom

from my experience, it's what I was saying earlier, right?

Adolescence and children don't have the same

discernment that adults do.

Now that I have that adult discernment,

I find it important to take what I've experienced

and alchemize it into something

that can maybe keep that conversation going

to make it richer,

to have us really start to pick apart.

What has gone wrong here and what can we do better?

It's what I like to do in the area of policy analysis,

like looking at what isn't isn't working

and providing recommendations to change that.

And when it comes to an experience like mine,

only those who have had it can really dig

into the nitty gritty details of it.

So for me, it's just a part of that larger desire

to make the world a better place.

One that was I think misguided for a long time.

One that was taken advantage of for a long time

by gender ideology,

but today is a little more internally anchored.

So it's of me now and that's why I like to speak out

because it's not about me and it's combining those two things.

Do you think that puberty blockers

and surgeries on kids should be stopped?

I do think puberty blockers and surgeries on kids

should be stopped.

I don't think the medical interventions here

are appropriate for an individual

who is still very much exploring their identity.

I think it can contribute greatly to that foreclosure.

We talked about earlier.

And honestly, when it comes to something such as puberty,

which is so fundamental to every other aspect of our health,

I mean, any woman who is in parry,

menopause, or menopause, will tell you that, right?

These hormones are important and you can't just...

I can't tell you that.

I can't disrupt those and have no consequences,

especially not when the foundations of your health

are forming in adolescence, just no.

That is to me, that's the craziest part

because when you are my age

and you've gone through all of this

and having four kids and pregnancy and everything

and you know how your body has changed

throughout all of that.

And I think it's different for women

because those hormones create so many,

so many deep emotions and you're so vulnerable

at different times, you know, at all different,

at different times of the month.

I mean, it's like, and I can see it in my own girls.

Some of the younger girls were talking

about how their older sisters are different

at different times of the month.

And it's like, you are?

I mean, you just naturally are.

And because of that, I think that women should be treated

with very tender care and understanding

and deep discussion over how their body

is reacting to certain things

because I am at that point now

where I see those hormones not being there

and having gone through cancer, you know,

I went on hormones suppressants, you know,

so because my cancer was hormone positive

and so you, gosh, when you are a woman,

you just know these hormones are so impactful

and they change so much of how you react to things

and if I may ask, was it where you want a nest result

for the hormone?

To Moxifen.

See, they put me on an estrogen suppressant

during when I was taking a testosterone

and it was one that was prescribed primarily

to women who were estrogen receptive in their cancer.

So not to pry, but when you said that,

that was just another piece,

but I appreciate you sharing all of that.

No, it's so bizarre to me because when I came

because my cancer was hormone positive and receptive

and they were, you know, we went through these discussions

at Johns Hopkins about like,

should I have a hysterectomy and what does that mean?

And the interesting thing about that

is I was 38 years old when I had cancer

and they said to me very seriously

to take out your uterus to have a hysterectomy

for you right now would be incredibly dangerous

for your bones and your body, you would age so quickly

and to take out all of everything that makes estrogen

and progesterone, it would be the benefits

do not outweigh the risk.

I was 38, you know, I had had on my kids.

I was already old and that was the message back then.

Like we don't want your body to age so quickly.

It blows my mind that they do this to children.

It blows my mind.

The knowledge is there.

The knowledge that these parts of our bodies

matter more than just reproduction.

Cosmetics, yes.

Exactly what, I mean, I guess that is the thing

that is mind-boggling about this is that

if you haven't lived it to your point,

I think you can look at this and say,

all of this is cosmetic and it's just making, you know,

we can play with science here.

We're built in a very specific way

and we should not play with science in those cases.

I thank you for being so open today.

It's been a very informative talking to you

and I'm so impressed with your strength

in going out and talking about this.

Thank you so much and thank you for having me again.

I appreciate it.

Absolutely.

Soren, tell people where they can find you.

You can find me on x at soren.al.co

or on my website sorenal.co.com.

Thank you so much.

It's been a pleasure.

And thank you all for listening to the podcast.

As always, you can subscribe at TutorDixonPodcast.com.

You can listen at the IHurtRadio app, Apple Podcast.

You'll watch on Rumble or YouTube at TutorDixon.

But just make sure you check out the TutorDixon podcast

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