The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Doug Burgum on the Future of Venezuela and the Lies about Data Centers

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Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast today.

I am excited because we have the secretary of the interior with us.

Doug Burgham, you also know him as the former North Dakota governor,

but now he is the US secretary of the interior

and the chairman of the National Energy Dominance Council.

And a guy who just got back from Venezuela,

which is very interesting.

Welcome to the podcast.

Well, Tutor, great to be with you.

And yes, just got back from Venezuela late last night.

That is so that's why so we're getting you fresh back from Venezuela,

which I think is very exciting because I hear a lot of people

that are concerned what's actually happening over there,

what is going on with oil, what's going on with gas prices here.

And there has been this kind of remarkable deal made with Venezuela

on the oil side.

Tell us a little bit about that.

Well, first of all, I just want to say to President Trump,

I mean, without his courageous, decisive leadership on January 3rd,

that we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

And I wouldn't have been in Venezuela.

I mean, two months ago,

Venezuela was a sanctioned adversary.

And now they're one becoming one of our most important strategic

allies in the Western Hemisphere.

I mean, this is a country that has the only country in the world

that has larger oil reserves than Saudi Arabia is Venezuela.

And it had been going out at a discount to people like China.

When it used to flow in five days

to the Gulf of America refineries along the coast of Texas and Louisiana,

and which was great for keeping prices down in America.

It was great for American jobs.

It was great for handling their heavier crude

because we built these refineries to do it.

And they went down a path on socialism under a corrupt leadership.

And thank President Trump, I guess with his action, our military.

It's basically a new dawn for the people of Venezuela.

People in Venezuela, I'm telling you,

they will outside of this building,

there's the interior building in Washington, DC.

There's a statue to Simon Boulevard,

the guy that liberated Venezuela and Bolivia back centuries ago.

There will likely be a statue of President Trump and streets

renamed after him in Caracas because this is a guy that his action

has created this new dawn of opportunity for people in Venezuela.

And only they remember what it was like just over 20 years ago,

when they had a market.

Their economy has shrunk by a factor of four.

I mean, their GDP today is one fourth of what it was

back when their industry was really going.

And that affects everybody in the country.

They're just a much poorer country than they were before.

So quite exciting to go down there and be working on

getting that oil and gas flowing back to America again,

to benefit Americans.

I think it's kind of a critical message as we go into the midterm.

What Venezuela became and how the United States is coming to the rescue

to rebuild it because we are hearing these messages of socialism.

In fact, we had an Argentinian politician recently in Germany

sitting next to AOC.

And AOC is talking about a wealth tax and she's talking about socialism.

And this woman, it was so gracious, but she said,

what President Trump did for Venezuela is,

I've seen the people cheering.

They've come to my country to get away from Venezuela.

This is such a critical moment for people to understand.

The infrastructure, the oil infrastructure there was destroyed by socialism.

And the opportunity here is to come together as partners to rebuild that, correct?

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, part of our delegation that we went down on this trip,

we had dozens of American companies across oil and gas and mining because

they're rich, a country rich in critical minerals.

That matters to every American because if you use a cell phone, drive a car,

have a refrigerator in your house, you're using critical minerals.

I mean, some of these, like I have some of the phones that they might have

42 of the 60 critical minerals that China controls all the processing

is in your phone, aka the supercomputer in your pocket.

So we just can't, we can't be a country and have our independence,

have our sovereignty.

If it's another nation controls the supply chain for things that we need

to support our economy, to support daily life.

So across all this, but these companies that we brought down there,

some of them had been kicked out of the country 20 years ago

when their companies were nationalized, aka their assets were stolen.

Well, you know what happened?

The people that were the Venezuelans working for American companies,

they didn't stay.

They left.

They left.

I mean, in where did they go?

They went to places like Houston.

I mean, there's one of the companies that said we have 600 Venezuelans that are now

Venezuelan Americans working as engineers, technicians, or leaders in our company in Houston.

They are chomping to go back down their increased production,

get it shipping back to the US.

And again, like I said, it's the one of the things that's going to help

bring that energy, the center of the energy world out of the Middle East,

which would be important right now.

Get it back to the Western Hemisphere between the US and Venezuela.

We've got everything we need right here.

You know how fantastic will that be?

That's been an interesting message that I've heard from both people in the United States

that want to go back to Iran and Venezuela.

It's people who were driven away by these radical policies.

And you said leaders, leaders, the wealth, all driven away from these countries.

But you also talked about the rare earth minerals.

And I want to clarify something there because I think that people in America have always

felt like we can only rely on China for these.

Do we have another option now?

Can we take that control back?

Absolutely.

Because across the US, we've got vast resources of minerals.

We got ourselves completely out of the mining game.

And that was a team effort.

I mean, that's been going on for 30 years.

You know, started back under Clinton.

Obama accelerated it.

Biden really took it to the max.

You know, but it was basically like, we're not going to permit mines.

We're going to fight these things any way we possibly can.

And we're going to save the planet by not doing it in America.

Well, you know, we saved nothing because in the US,

we did a cleaner, smarter, safer than anywhere else.

And then we outsourced the China.

China goes to the Congo in the middle of Africa.

They go to Indonesia.

They have no reclamation.

They have no child labor laws.

They have no EPA, if you will.

And so some of the biggest ecological disasters are occurring

where China is doing mining.

And then they mine it and they don't care about that place.

It's not China.

They just tear it up.

Bring it back to China.

Control the processing in China.

And then they basically have got the whole world hostage.

When they control 90 to 100% of some of these minerals

that's the only place you can get a refined product.

It's from China.

You know, that's why we had a ministerial, as they say,

it's a new word I'm learning here from the State Department.

But it was like you get all the energy ministers

and all the mining ministers from all the world.

We had 51 countries come to DC a couple of weeks ago.

They all want to cut a deal with the US

to be part of this club of nations

where we will all trade amongst each other.

We'll have price floors so that China can't do a legal dumping.

And we'll have a solution that will take the rest of democracy,

the democratic western countries.

We'll all be able to have a secure supply of critical minerals

without being reliant on China.

So again, moving at Trump's speed

to solve some of these important national security issues.

But Venezuela, human rights issues.

Yeah, that's right.

Yes, human rights issues.

But Venezuela can also be a key part of that as well.

And now just last night,

we normalized relations with Venezuela.

I mean, they're recognizing our ambassador.

They're recognizing theirs.

We're going to open up our embassy in Caracas again.

They'll have an embassy here.

Relationships for businesses to start in capital,

start flowing.

And goods from Venezuela keep flowing to the US.

I mean, it's just incredible.

I mean, all the doubters about President Trump

on the day that he did this rage,

he'll go back and watch the tape.

Because here, two months later,

like again, we're building

incredible positive momentum.

And we've got US companies that know that they can do great things for America

by working in Venezuela again.

Because that's where any of these companies were 20 years ago.

The Naysayers will criticize this and they'll say,

this is the United States stepping in.

And Donald Trump just wants to take their oil.

But I want you to explain how this changes the GDP

and the opportunity for growth and prosperity

on the ground in Venezuela.

Because it is not.

Venezuela was really under the control of China,

I believe, when it came to their oil supply.

And under the control,

really a very nefarious players.

And it's critical for the United States

to free them from that.

Yes, well, I'll give you one example.

It's pretty simple because they were,

their oil industry under socialism had gone

from almost four million barrels a day down to

less than 800,000 barrels a day.

I mean, North Dakota, for example,

produces 1.2 million barrels right now.

So North Dakota was producing more than Venezuela.

I mean, that's just a, I mean, it's kind of amazing

how socialism can wreck an economy.

But that was just one industry.

But that was their big source of revenue.

Well, then normally, if you're Venezuelan,

you have a, they have a state controlled oil company

like many countries do.

I'm going to sell it.

I'm going to sell it for $60 a barrel.

Well, if I'm, you know, producing a million barrels a day,

I'm going to $60 million in.

If you sell one barrel, you get $60.

China was saying, oh, no, we loans you money.

You owe us some money.

Oh, and by the way, you know, you guys are sanctioned.

And so we're not going to pay full price.

So they take a $60 barrel.

They'd get a $30 discount.

And then they would take it.

So then it says Venezuela was getting $30 instead of $60.

But then China would go, but you owe us money.

So we're going to take 15% and apply that against your debt.

Or I mean, or another $15.

So then in some cases,

as recently as two months ago,

Venezuela on a $60 barrel of oil,

$15 million, you know, or one-fourth of it,

of it's $15 out of every barrel we're coming to,

to Venezuela.

So it means like literally China was taking three quarters

and they were taking one quarter.

So for them to be back and be able to sell oil

on the world market at the full price

and then work to split those proceeds with the US,

you know, just overnight we were doubling the revenue

that they were getting on the same production.

But now we bring in US equipment,

US technology, US team players,

Chevron, who was one of the companies down there

on Wednesday hit record production in two months.

I mean, everything is scaling up for Venezuela.

The people there have a sense of optimism about their future.

And of course, capital is in human talents

ready to flow back in that country,

which will have a huge benefit for the United States.

And what is the leadership feeling like there?

I know there was some concern having the vice president

kind of step into that role.

And was that also going to be a problem

that they would be loyal to Maduro.

But it seems like President Trump is pleased

with what's going on in leadership there.

Well, he's very pleased.

And President Trump even tweeted about it yesterday.

Well, I was in the meeting with the acting president,

Kelsey Rodriguez.

So, you know, a Trump truth comes out talking about

how he thinks she's doing a fantastic job.

So, that was very fun.

That happened.

And then of course, we met the next day.

And then last night, Marco Rubio and President Trump,

you know, tweeted in truth out that we were, you know,

formalizing and recognizing the country.

So, very fun, very fun time to be there.

And of course, one of the other things we talked about,

they've got enormous gold reserves.

And so, they'll be news coming on that

because just like oil and critical minerals,

the US can be a buyer of those products.

And that's going to also be helpful

on the precious metal side for America as well.

Let's take a quick commercial break.

We'll continue next on the Tutor Dixon podcast.

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Men are being allowed to compete in women's sports,

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Visit joinadf.com slash Dixon

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Do you think that the future of Venezuela will continue to rise up

or do you think there will be an undercurrent of the

Maduro folks that could come back?

I think that somewhere between eight out of ten

or nine out of ten people in Venezuela are

celebrating the fact that that Maduro's gone

and they see President Trump as their liberator.

I mean, this is a country that respects the U.S.

They love following the NBA.

They love following Major League Baseball.

They're tied, you know, they're in the same hemisphere.

They're, you know, they're only time zone wise

that are one hour ahead of East Coast time zones.

So they're aligned that way in terms of, you know,

our news cycles or their cycles.

So I just sensed a lot of optimism and positiveness on there.

You know, and back when you're questioned about what can we do on

on minerals.

The other thing is like President Trump says drill baby drill.

We've got a mind baby mind.

Also, we've got to get back in the mining business,

even for things like copper, you know,

those are things that we need for our power grid.

We need them for electronics and there's industries

where we've got enormous,

New United States has got enormous resources.

We just have to have the will to develop them.

But when we do, we know we'll do it cleaner,

smarter, safer than anywhere in the world.

So that's that's also great.

That's also great for our heavy resource states.

You are speaking my language now,

because I come from a manufacturing background.

And we used to do a lot.

We used to make a lot of steel castings for mining companies

and those mining companies.

We're not doing much mining in the United States.

And those are big big pieces of equipment to build and ship

and move.

And I know that even in the state of Michigan,

we have had the availability to mine in the UP.

And there were so many jobs lost under Obama and Biden.

And all of these, these Democrats that want to shut down

any type of mining, but that was the,

that was what we always said about not just mining,

but also the foundry industry.

You think that this is to, in your mind,

this is a dirty job, the United States does it better

than any other country would do it cleaner.

This is where you want to have these things done.

And you've been, you've been sold a book of lies

to get all of this shut down.

One other area I want to ask you about,

because we're not familiar with this,

this new data center area.

You, this is kind of like, this is your bread and butter.

This is where you grew up in the data area.

So it's a big controversy right now in our state.

I know across the country, people are going,

I want local control.

I don't want this in my backyard.

They're getting a really bad rap on being huge pieces

or huge buildings taking up massive amounts of land,

not a lot of jobs, lots of noise,

energy costs are increasing,

but they are also the future.

So how do we marry that together

and get people to understand

that we can't demonize data centers,

but we also have to have local control?

Well, my first, my first comment on this

is for everybody locally is just a curious.

I mean, and don't believe everything you say,

because you talked about China early.

China doesn't want us to build any of these.

They're not data centers per se.

They call them that, but this is where we manufacture intelligence.

I mean, electricity has been a miracle.

I mean, we were able to,

you know, with going back to Thomas Edison,

produce a light out of electricity.

I mean, the light bulb invention

and then using electricity for heat,

capturing that, harnessing that,

that was, that changed the world.

But now electricity can be converted into intelligence.

And so being against a manufacturing plant

that manufactures intelligence

and people have all these complaints,

well, first of all, technology is going to solve some of it.

The noise issue relates to fans.

They're building that these AI manufacturing sites

right now are AI data centers.

They're, you know, they're building them

where they're liquid cooled.

And so instead of a bunch of fans using a bunch of power,

you're recycling and cooling liquid over them.

So that's one piece.

There are big advances that are happening

on nuclear and geothermal that are just around the corner.

They're going to help power these.

And then yesterday at the White House,

we had the rate payer protection event

where the five big companies in America,

the five big tech companies that are building most of these

and have the big capital budgets.

They all agreed that they're going to,

I call it a BYOP, bring your own power.

They're going to be building power.

And so when they build it,

they'll build enough to run their data center

or they'll build extra to be able to dump some back on the grid.

In North Dakota, when I was governor still just 15 months ago,

we could, we were finishing up a project there

where we were able to get the actual electric rates down

for everybody in that rural area

where the thing was going not up.

Because the company agreed to help buy down everybody's rates.

I mean, electricity's worth more than it has been before.

So versus instead of like getting out the pitchforks

and the torches at hating on these proposals,

I just would encourage local policy makers

and state officials to go talk to these data center folks

and say, what do you need?

And then say, what do we need?

I mean, we need lower electric rates.

We need it to be quiet.

Oh, and by the way, if you're going to build here,

we would like to have you take some of your AI capacity

and create a personalized tutor

for every school kid in the whole state.

And they will probably go, yes,

or they'd say, oh, we want you to partner

with this hospital chain to go cure cancer.

Because so we need some percentage

of the AI you're generating.

It has to go here to solve a problem in our state.

I mean, it's like having 100,000 geniuses

is moving to your backyard, but they're not going to,

they're not going to compete on housing.

I mean, they're not going to compete for,

you don't need to build more roads for them.

You don't need to build more subdivisions to me or whatever.

But all of a sudden, you got all this brain power

and it shows up and start negotiating

with these companies to get what you need

to make it work for you.

But to put a ban and say, we don't want that stuff,

they're just going to go to the places

and the places that end up with these

are going to see quality life improvements,

educational improvements, health improvements,

and there's all these benefits

because being close to an, again, when I say intelligence,

you know, I've interviewed thousands of people

in my tech career.

I've never met anybody who speaks 27 languages fluently.

It is in the top 1% of the software

developed for coders in America.

Even the generic AI today can do those two things.

I mean, translate to more languages

than you could ever imagine and concode.

I mean, so there will be software companies

that get started tapping into this power.

And so, you know, this is an asset

and we need it strategically to compete against China.

Absolutely, we need that.

And any of the, any of the locals or states

that say that they think they're winning,

you know, by banning, banning this stuff,

they're buying it, they're buying into basically

a narrative that China's pushing

because China is building enormous amounts of electricity

right now, enormous amounts of AI data centers.

They'll do anything, including have misinformation

campaigns online to get us to not do that.

So I think this is actually so critical right now

because that's what we're hearing in campaigns.

Like I said, we're going into the midterms.

This is a big discussion in our state and many states.

People are very scared.

But I don't think that there's,

we don't understand it like you do.

When you talk about intelligence,

people on the ground don't understand

what the opportunities are

or what the consequences are of not having

these intelligence manufacturing centers

because we could get so far behind

and why China would want us behind.

So I will just say that perhaps the tour

of Secretary Bergam and Tutor Dixon should continue

because we did that great chat up in Traverse City.

But I mean, in reality, I do think that

if we could get people to kind of explain this in more detail.

So I will say, I would love to have you back sometime

so that we can talk about what exactly

that intelligence is and people can understand

a little bit deeper why it's important.

And from a military standpoint,

a national security standpoint,

all of these things is so new to us

who aren't in it every day, we don't get it.

But I thank you so much for the time

that you did spend here today.

Secretary Doug Bergam, thank you so much.

Thanks for explaining this.

And thank you for what you're doing at home and overseas.

Well, you're welcome to it,

and if you want some bonus, a bonus minute,

if I could, I'll just say one other thing.

I mean, the war that's that are happening right now,

I mean, if Iran is launching,

like they did last year, 500 projectiles at Israel

in one day, and Israel shoots down 495 of them,

that was last year during that 12-day war.

And then in a home here in America,

we go, oh, what was the score of the ball game?

I mean, it's like, no,

artificial intelligence is at work right now

protecting all of our allies in the Middle East.

I mean, you don't shoot down, you know,

95 or 98% of the incoming things,

if it's just a bunch of guys with a good aim.

No, it's like, you've got to be sophisticated

on the targeting because in that particular example,

400 of those were low-flying drones

that took six hours to get there.

Another almost 100, we're gonna get there in two hours,

throwing some ballistic ones that go out of the atmosphere

and come down and gonna land on Israel in 12 minutes.

They're all time to arrive at the same time.

Well, if I got 20 rockets and they all shoot at one incoming,

then 19 get through.

You know, so the complexity to be able to do

that missile defense work absolutely requires AI.

We cannot lose the AI arms race.

I mean, that is a, that, you know, they're in their tide.

I mean, Iran having a nuclear weapon, existential threat.

Losing the AI arms race, existential threat.

If we want prosperity in the world and peace at home,

we got to do both those things.

And the last thing for those citizens of Michigan,

I don't know if you think your property taxes are,

but the other thing you can do it.

In North Dakota, this is a $1.2 billion data center

in a town of 800 people.

You know, I mean, a mile and a half out of town

on some farmland, that thing is gonna pay more property taxes

than the whole town combined.

So it's kind of like, what do you guys want?

New school, new gym, new uniforms, new park.

Oh, you wanna eliminate your property taxes?

Great, just shift the whole burden over to this,

you know, this multi-billion dollar data center.

So I mean, people, I say, stay curious, ask questions.

There's big opportunities for those communities

that are interested in those that just say not here.

You know, they might miss out some states

and some communities will be curious enough

to end up with a really great opportunity

to benefit them for generations to come.

I'm just gonna say, I've said this before,

but President Trump has the absolute best

and most intelligent cabinet on the planet

and history in the history of the United States.

Thank you.

I mean, honestly, I'm so impressed every time I talk

to anybody who is working in this administration,

but everybody has this great knowledge base

and you're so willing to share.

And I will just say behind the scenes,

everybody says to us that they love working with you.

You are very, you've always been so kind and special to us.

So thank you so much for coming on the podcast

and sharing this.

It's meaningful to me, but to all the people out there

that are trying to figure this out,

it's so meaningful that you spend time with us.

Well, likewise, Tudor, thank you for all you do

and thanks for using your voice and your talent,

your skills to reach people and help people understand

what the truth is and make sure that they can help

make informed decisions because that's what we need

to keep democracy going.

Yes, absolutely, thank you.

Thank you so much.

And thank you all for listening to the Tudor Dixon podcast.

Make sure you check out the next episode

at TudorDixonPodcast.com and have a blessed day.

It's happening across America.

Men are being allowed to compete in women's sports,

robbing girls of scholarships, medals, titles, and safety.

For the first time in history,

the US Supreme Court heard two cases

that could decide the future of women's sports nationwide.

Alliance-defending freedom needs your voice today.

Visit joinadf.com slash Dixon or text Dixon

to 83848 to add your name and side with truth and fairness

that's joinadf.com slash Dixon,

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