The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Is Raw Milk Safe? UV Pasteurization Explained

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You are listening to the Tutor Dixon podcast,

and today we are going to talk raw milk.

I know you're going to go,

how can you talk about raw milk for that long,

but there's this new innovation.

You've heard a lot about raw milk,

but I know that people are going,

you know, we hear the administration in Maha,

and everybody saying raw milk is safe,

but is raw milk safe?

And I've had some people on the podcast who have said absolutely not.

So we found someone who knows how to make raw milk safe.

And there's a reason that you want to do that,

because there's a lot of good stuff in raw milk.

But I will have Bob Comstock explain that to you.

Bob is the founder and CEO of Tamarack Biotics,

and he's here to talk to us.

About UV pasteurization, right, Bob?

Yes, I am, Tutor.

And I'm excited to do so.

Awesome.

Yes, explain a little bit about.

We hear everything about raw milk,

but I don't think people,

we've heard just raw milk is good for you.

But I don't think we understand why.

Well, certainly there are a lot of bioactive components in raw milk.

And if you think of what milk actually means,

mammals, whether from a human or a cow,

feed their infant and establish an instance

entire immune system through mother's milk.

And we've tried to make it safe using pasteurization for more than 150 years.

It was invented before the Civil War in the United States.

And it does so, but it great expense to the bioactivity of raw milk.

So raw milk has a lot of health benefits,

but it is inherently not safe because it can contain pathogenic bacteria.

That can be very harmful to people.

Okay, I've been to many dairies and I will say that as you are,

as you watch the cows coming in and out and being milked,

there is like this moment where I go,

is this all totally safe?

And then they say, oh, it all gets heated up and it's just below boiling

and everything gets killed.

But then you kind of just have a product that you're drinking that doesn't have as much value

as it had when it came out of the mother cow.

So how do you get that stuff back without putting people in danger of drinking it?

Yes. So UV pasteurization works by inactivating bacteria and viruses that could be found in milk,

in raw milk. So without getting into all the technical details, it is actually safer than

heat and kills the bad bugs better.

And it does this while the milk is entirely cold.

So we don't heat the milk at all and we achieve a greater level of safety than heat does.

So this is all just with a UV light.

So what's happening is that as someone who has gone to many dairies,

we used to have a friend that worked at a dairy,

as you watch what is happening in the dairy,

you see the milk going through all of these different processes for the UV pasteurization.

It's all refrigerated the whole time and it's a thin stream that's going under the

polite or how does that work?

Yeah, there's a lot of technology to how you deliver UV light.

Which is basically sunshine. So we use the same mechanism by which you can dry

apricots in sunlight and it kills the bacteria that could grow on the apricots and it safely

dries them. So our technology works by yes, creating a very thin film of fast moving milk.

So the ultraviolet light can inactivate the bacteria and viruses and then not heat the milk

at all as it goes through the process. So this can be used for liquid milk.

We just recently received FDA approval for raw skim milk to be used in

dairy ingredients like milk protein and way protein concentrates that you can buy at the

health food store or Costco big bags of way. And those ingredients will be much more

helpful than they are today.

Interesting. So okay, but when you say much more healthful, you said healthful, right?

Or did you say healthful? Yes, healthy. That's what I thought. I'm like healthy. Okay, great.

Well, I think it's be helpful for your audience to understand some of the reasons why this health

giving benefits of raw milk and why people are advocating for it. And a lot of this stems and

Tamarack was originally founded because in Europe over the last two decades, they've shown that

children that grow up consuming as they call it their farm milk are protected from developing

allergies such as asthma and hay fever and eczema and food allergies. And it was very interesting

studies and some of them were large enough to include over 27,000 children in seven countries.

And what they found was the French kids growing up on a dairy and consuming boiled milk because

it's a French culture to follow Louis Pasteur and boil their milk before drinking it. Whereas

German children growing up in a city had access to farm milk from the village store. And what

these studies found is it wasn't living on the farm that protected children from developing

allergies. It was actually consuming farm milk. And though I certainly don't advocate for drinking

raw milk at any time, particularly in a distribution system where you're not sure how old the milk

actually is and that gives bacteria an opportunity to grow. So we our technology has shown in clinical

trials that have yet to be published, but I've already I've seen the preliminary results show that

UV pasteurized dairy ingredients protect children from developing allergies like peanut allergy.

And okay, I was going to ask that because for health. Yes, that's something. Any parent knows that

obviously we went to school. We were I never had a teacher say you can't bring peanut butter

and jelly. We have full peanut free rooms. We have peanut free lunch areas. We have we have been

told from the time the kids were little like they will send home at the beginning of the year.

These are the food allergies that we have in class. These are the foods that your students can't

bring to our class. So we are hyper aware as parents today that there are all these different

food allergies. But we also have been told, you know, kids don't have to be lactose intolerant.

They don't have to be gluten free. There are ways to prevent it. It didn't it wasn't like this in

the past. But but milk was always past your eyes for as long as I've been around. So what is it

that we've what else have we missed? What is that in this? And when you dry it out like you're

talking about and it's in these supplements, is that giving us the same thing that raw milk

would be giving if we were drinking on the farm? Well, no, not entirely, but there are actually

by concentrating some of and removing the lactose from milk, you can make ingredients that are

put into yogurt or cottage cheese or lots of other dairy products that people can easily consume.

And so liquid milk only represents about 9% of the dairy products produced today.

And all these other products from yogurts and cheeses and I'm a myriad of different

products people have in their store shelf to choose from. And we can make virtually all of those

healthier with UV pasteurization by retaining these bioactive components. You only have this

above right now for skim milk, right? Correct. And and we're working to expand that approval to

colostrum and way and and and those will take some time. We've been collaborating with the FDA

for more than 12 years to to gain this approval that we have so far. It's the first in the entire

world for an alternative to heat for pasteurizing milk. So this FDA must be much more receptive to

something like this? Yeah, I think they in general have been their FDA. It's their responsibility

to be cautious and careful and protect the public health and they have done that very thoroughly

and they've ensured that we prove that our UV system achieves what's called a five log reduction.

So it's 99.99% of all bacteria and viruses that could be in milk. And we've done that with

with great scrutiny and detail. So yeah, I think the FDA is very excited about the potential for

this to improve the health of the country and they've they've been a good partner through the

journey to get this approval. We've obviously heard quite a bit about the opportunity to have

food, food is health, right? Food is is how you grow food is health care. And that's what we're

hearing from this administration. When you look at what the potential could be for this, I mean,

obviously it's a big deal for parents to hear you could potentially prevent allergies. What if

your kid already has allergies? What if you were suffering from IBS? What if you have all of these?

What if you have psoriasis and eczema and all these things that we're hearing about? What is the

potential here with this product? I don't know all of the remedial abilities, but it's certainly

been proven very thoroughly that raw milk consumption in in Europe leads to vastly lower incidents

of allergy development. And in the developed world, half of children born today will develop some

form of allergy, whether it's asthma or a skin allergy or a food allergy. And that's really sad.

And I think that's this administration is clearly trying to to bring back food as health

giving medicines. So we're very consistent with that message and we're looking forward to

eventually having UV pasteurization be the dominant form of pasteurization of milk.

So you think there's a future where what we're hearing about the benefits of raw milk

could actually be what we're getting at the grocery store when I go to the mire and I pick up a

gallon of milk. In the future, there's the potential that that is UV pasteurized. And therefore,

it hasn't been heated up. It's not losing a lot of those things that are passed from mother to

baby. There's a chance that this could take off and we could see this implemented into our

dairies. Absolutely. I think so because there's there's three big reasons actually. One is the

nutrition story and we do retain all of these bioactive components that are in raw milk.

There you heard of names like immunoglobulins and lactoferin and osteopontin. These are

proteins that are found in milk and we do not damage them. So and heat does. So the protective

effect for allergies is also we see this and improved gut health and even UC Davis did a clinical

trial showing that our UV pasteurized milk protein concentrate restored immune function and older

people. So we gave people a tetanus shot and looked at how many antibodies they developed in

response to that tetanus shot and on average the people that had consumed the UV product compared

to the control had a hundred and twenty percent more. So more than double the amount of antibodies

and as you get older your immune system weakens and we know that very well and there's no way to

restore it until UV pasteurization came around. So the same mechanism by which a mother in parts

immunity to our infant works to restore immune function and older people. So we think we're going

to keep older people well. So that's an exciting future for us too. And now it should reduce a lot

of health care costs because you know as you get older it becomes more and more expensive to keep

well. Let's take a quick commercial break we'll continue next on the Tutor Dixon podcast.

No one knows what the future holds but you deserve a weather app that can help. Weather bug is

easy to use and provides forecasts for your every need. From storm warnings to pollen levels,

write at your fingertips, get the fastest local alerts and comprehensive 10-day forecasts wherever

you are. It's hyper-local real-time customizable alerts make sure the weather never takes you by

surprise so you can plan every day with confidence. Download the free weather bug app from the

app store today and start getting accurate weather forecasts 24-7. Attention fans of jury duty.

The groundbreaking comedy series is back for season two. Featuring an all-new cast this

installment takes the comedy out of the courthouse and into the mountains above Malibu for an annual

company retreat. The catch? Everyone put the new guys in actor. Oh yeah and the company's fake.

Get to know all the employees of Rocking Grandma's Hot Sauce, a family business with everything on

the line. Season two arrives with bigger laughs, higher stakes, and the same heart that made the

first season a cultural phenomenon. And here's the fun part. You'll be able to try all four

flavors of Rocking Grandma's Hot Sauce on Amazon. Jury Duty Presents Company Retreat is now streaming

on Prime Video. Don't miss the feel-good comedy everyone's going to be talking about.

Hey it's Bobby Bones from The Bobby Bones Show. You know Eddie and I recently stopped by Yeah

in Nashville. It's an incredible nonprofit empowering kids through music education. Thanks to

Hyundai. We recorded a special podcast episode while we were there. Check it out. What's the dream

for Yeah in the next few years. We would love to have more consistent programming during the weekend.

Our rock block program is dependent on funding venues that are available to host band-based

programming. We would love to extend the camp to a second consecutive week so that kids can go

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programming to offer more industry-related skills like audio, lighting, production, recording so

that kids can be on a track to see where what they may create with an instrument can lead,

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to have an entry point into music. The full episode is out now presented by the Hyundai Ionic 9.

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bonds, options, crypto, and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an

investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high

free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally

type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one-of-a-kind index,

and lets you backtest it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks.

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and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com-slash-disclosures.

Obviously, you do believe that this is food being health care and improving your system.

If you can improve your immune system, that changes things for nursing homes,

that changes things for health care, especially for the older generation. But what have you

seen for the younger generation? What really led you to say, gosh, I think that we're taking

all the good stuff out of milk, and what could be the benefit of doing something different?

Yes. Well, I think there's definitely, I think, benefits for all generation and even athletes.

So sports nutrition will greatly benefit for people in performance, recovery, and keeping well.

Because as you exercise, you actually suppress your immune system rather quickly.

So many athletes, we call it Olympic Village Fever, where athletes get together with suppressed

immune systems, and they all come down with a cold or a flu. And that's pretty well documented.

We think we'll be able to keep people's immune systems strong so they won't fall victim to this.

And I forgot to mention, Tudor, that there are three reasons why I think store shelves will be

full of these UV pasteurized products in the future. The first one is in the nutrition story.

The second is sustainability because UV saves enormous amounts of energy that it takes to heat

up milk to nearly boiling and then cool it back down to refrigerated conditions. And milk really

doesn't like heat. It becomes sticky. So if you've ever heated milk in a pot to make some hot

chocolate, you'll notice it sticks to the pot after you've heated it and it didn't stick before.

So what that's showing is these proteins are undergoing what we call denaturing. They're kind of

unfold. And as they unfold, they become more viscous and sticky. And that challenges dairy

operators because they must stop and clean often because of what's called fouling. So when you use

UV pasteurization, not only do you save an enormous amount of energy, but you reduce the need to

clean so often. And the dairy industry is very excited about this. I'm actually attending a dairy

processing conference this week. And I'll be speaking about UV pasteurization later today.

But the dairy industry in general recognizes that heat is not their friend and they're looking

forward to having, you know, UV pasteurization be fully approved in the US and being able to

utilize its benefits. And the third year, as I mentioned outside of the US right now,

we're working with companies in Europe that are preparing installations. So we're designing

systems that will be installed this year. So we expect to have UV pasteurized products in Europe

soon. But unfortunately, you don't have to get approval to do that there. We do. And we've been

working in Europe as we have been with the FDA, particularly with the Irish food safety authority

for several years. And they're prepared to fully approve our process in the EU.

So because I was recently in Europe. And as I, when I was over there, I was just looking around

and thinking, people just naturally seem like they are in better shape, better condition here.

I mean, and there is a reality. Obviously, I know all the stories of America we're overeating.

We have huge portion sizes. We aren't exercising. We don't walk places. So there are those

nuances as well. But their food definitely seems different. Do you think that they are more

receptive to doing something if it's, if they see it as healthier and to making that change faster?

Yeah, I think so. And I think informed consumers here in the United States are also very

enthusiastic about having better nutrition in all regards. And we do have way too many chemicals

in our food. Unfortunately, we have this grass generally recognized as safe approval process

that allowed companies to self affirm their own safety data about a food chemical and not even

notify the FDA that they were going to use this. So Senator Marshall, very supportive of his work,

has introduced a bill in the Senate floor to reform the grass or generally recognize as safe

process. And part of that reformation, if you will, is to allow UV to utilize the grass approval

route, which it is not today. Because wasn't there, isn't there some story where in the 50s,

this was approved at some point and people were using it? Yes, absolutely. It's actually a very

interesting story about vitamin D. So people had noticed that children certainly in the the

northern regions of the United States were in the winter, they didn't get a lot of sunlight.

And we didn't understand it, but children would grow up bolegged with weak bones. And vitamin D is

very important to enable calcium absorption. And the kids weren't just weren't getting enough

sunlight, and then we're getting enough vitamin D. So this scientist named John Steenbach at

the University of Wisconsin in Madison developed a procedure that increased the vitamin D content

in whole milk by shining huge quantities of vitamin D at the milk. In fact, it didn't taste very good

and they used the taste as a measure to make sure the process was effective. But this process

increased the vitamin D content in milk. And it was utilized in the 1920s and 30s until vitamin D

was synthesized. And since then, it's been added directly to milk, which is easier and it

certainly doesn't ruin the taste of the milk. But in the United States and Europe,

hundreds of dairies and millions of children consumed UV-treated milk. And we contend to the FDA

that this is evidence of UV safety because certainly clinical trials are done at that time

and no adverse effects of this UV treatment were shown. So yeah, it's a funny story to see all

these pictures of burdens and carnation milk cans say irradiated milk. Oh gosh, yeah, that is

kind of terrifying. So at that time, for those for those cans of milk, they didn't have any

pasteurization that was heated, correct? You know, I think they still were often heated,

but this was an additional treatment not always treated, but I think most often they were often

heated to do the bacterial reduction. But we at that time, the knowledge of germs and bacteria

and viruses was so limited and we didn't even understand that it was vitamin D that was

increasing in the milk. They just observed this effect in rats and then eventually in children

that if they consumed this UV-treated milk, they did not suffer this calcium malabsorption

and they had stronger bones. And it was a widespread use throughout the United States and Europe

in that period. You mentioned a lot of things that I think that we would consider chronic disease.

I mean, even allergies and asthma and eczema, those are all really tough things to live with.

I believe the parents who have experienced that or the people who have lived with that would say,

yeah, I really wish there had been something. Do you feel so passionately about this?

Obviously, you've talked about the energy consumption and that that would be down,

and that you could actually probably move a lot of product faster through these

because you don't have to have the cleaning process. But do you think also that this would

change chronic disease in the United States? Absolutely. There's a lot of evidence that

chronic disease starts in your gut and people have been taking antibiotics and eating

ultra-process food so long that their intestinal walls are compromised and we talk about microbiome

and gut health. These are real issues that the scientific community knows are lead to a lot of

chronic diseases like MS and Parkinson's and we really understand more and more the gut brain

axis and how this leads. If your gut is not healthy, compounds are getting from your food

and all the digestive byproducts into your bloodstream because your gut lining is compromised.

And we have evidence that these UV pasteurized way products will improve gut health and

potentially reduce product disease. When you talk about gut lining and you talk about the

microbiome, I think a lot of people have concerns that if my gut is not right, how do I get that

back on track? Is it possible to get that back on track? You have this product that is out there

with skim milk. Is that the goal is to improve the microbiome and is that something that you can do

once you've gotten off track? Absolutely and I think that explains the results we saw in that

UC Davis trial is that the intervention group that had been consuming our UV treated product

found double vaccine responses because their intestinal system was improved and restored to better

function. So that probably explains that benefit that we observed in the clinical trial.

And you think if this were, I mean, I think about the amount of milk that my kids consume and if

they were, it's hard sometimes for us as parents to get them to drink the smoothie, to get

them to take the vitamin. But if this were something that were on the grocery store shelves,

if this is how milk came to us, that would be a huge improvement. But then there's also the

opportunity to have it in supplements, to have it in in stores that are selling foods that are

selling smoothies that are selling health foods. Do you see that as there's like a huge market

in both areas, whether it is the direct to market milk or it's the after products where we're still

looking to increase, we're still looking, I mean, I will say, I look at my kids, they drink a lot

of milk. I am not as big of a milk drinker as an adult. I don't find myself whipping up some

chocolate milk. I don't drink and grab a glass of milk before I go to bed. That's just not in my

mindset. So I would be, I would be more in the category of someone who's looking to get this without

having to have it in my, have it as a nightly glass of milk. I mean, to say category quite frankly.

No, so it's not necessary for the drying process. I think dairy manufacturers will be using our

technology for yogurts and cottage cheese and all sorts of dairy products will utilize this

eventually. And we're working towards the gaining that regulatory approval necessary for all

different dairy products. But yeah, I certainly don't drink as much milk. It's in my coffee and

rarely will I have a glass of milk. But I do consume a lot of yogurt and cottage cheese.

Yeah, I guess I don't think I do have a lot of dairy. I have, I'm a big fan of cheese. I have

one kid that is absolutely totally opposed to cheese. So thank goodness she drinks milk.

Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on the Tutor Dixon podcast.

No one knows what the future holds, but you deserve a weather app that can help.

Weather Bug is easy to use and provides forecasts for your every need.

From storm warnings to pollen levels, write at your fingertips.

Get the fastest local alerts and comprehensive 10-day forecasts wherever you are.

It's hyper-local real-time customizable alerts. Make sure the weather never takes you by

surprise so you can plan every day with confidence. Download the free weather bug app from the

app store today and start getting accurate weather forecasts 24-7.

Attention, fans of jury duty. The groundbreaking comedy series is back for season two.

Featuring an all-new cast, this installment takes the comedy out of the courthouse

and into the mountains above Malibu for an annual company retreat.

The catch? Everyone put the new guys in actor. Oh yeah, and the company's fake.

Get to know all the employees of Rocking Grandma's Hot Sauce, a family business with everything

on the line. Season two arrives with bigger laughs, higher stakes, and the same heart that made

the first season a cultural phenomenon. And here's the fun part. You'll be able to try all four

flavors of Rocking Grandma's Hot Sauce on Amazon. Jury Duty Presents Company Retreat is now streaming

on Prime Video. Don't miss the feel-good comedy everyone's going to be talking about.

Hey, it's Bobby Bones from The Bobby Bones Show. You know, Eddie and I recently stopped by

Yeah, in Nashville. It's an incredible nonprofit empowering kids through music education.

Thanks to Hyundai. We recorded a special podcast episode while we were there. Check it out.

What's the dream for Yeah, the next two years? We would love to have more consistent programming

during the weekend. Our rock block program is dependent on funding venues that are available

to host band-based programming. We would love to extend the camp to a second consecutive week

so that kids can go a little bit deeper into what they've created during the first week camp.

And we'd love to expand our programming to offer more industry-related skills like audio,

lighting, production, recording so that kids can be on a track to see where what they

may create with an instrument can lead, but also to welcome those that may not want to be on stage.

But lack of the opportunity at school to have an entry point into music.

The full episode is out now presented by the Hyundai Ionic 9. To donate and learn more about

Yeah's mission, just visit YeahRocks.org.

To donate and learn more about YeahRocks, just visit YeahRocks.org.

To donate and learn more about YeahRocks, just visit YeahRocks.org.

You know, I remember the milk commercials where the people had the milk on their lip and that was

like the big conversation. Milk was a big conversation. I think milk went through a little bit of a

phase where it was demonized by people who were like, oh, you've got to have oat milk.

And then we found out that oat milk is like just drinking seed oil. So we went back to

real milk. And now you have the Secretary of Health talking so critically about milk.

And going out and doing workout videos, maybe a little weird drinking milk in the hot tub.

I don't know. That was strange. But obviously making a point that milk is very important.

So my question to you about this is if you could talk to HHS or if you could talk to the FDA,

what would you tell them today that you need? Well, there's still a regulatory hurdle we have

to get through with the FDA. In 1958, Congress enacted the Food Additive Act and wanted to

regulate ionizing radiation because it was the dawn of the nuclear era and people were just

learning what it could do. So they wanted to regulate and in parentheses and all of the subcommittee

transcripts, it says gamma rays x rays and radio isotopes. So ultraviolet light like infrared

or your microwave oven is non ionizing radiation. And it's very common. The sunlight is a huge

bandwidth of ultraviolet light. So only the United States has a regulation that governs allowed

uses of ultraviolet light and food. And this unfortunately inhibits safety. So our food supply

would be safer if we could use UV for a lot of different products. And Senator Marshall's bill

would enable that. We're working with the FDA also because of this prior use in the 1920s and

30s. We believe that qualifies it what's called a prior use exemption. And we've filed with the FDA

to gain that approval. Once we have those steps and we have to still amend something called the

pasteurized milk ordinance that governs interstate milk shipments. And we're in the process of

doing that also. So once we have all of the vinyl hurdles done, I think your dairy shelf will be

exclusively UV pasteurized products in perhaps 15 years from now. And we are well on our way

to kicking the chronic disease in the United States once that happens. That excites me. That is

very exciting to me. We will do our best to pass this along to our friends over at the FDA and

over at HHS. To me, it is very, it is incredibly interesting to know that there are foods in our

environment that are healing and that we're not taking, we're not using them to the greatest benefit.

In politics, we have a saying it's sunlight is the best disinfectant. Apparently we should have

it in health food too. We should have it in our milk. Yes. Yeah. Liquid sunshine. I mean, why

wouldn't we be drinking that? Yes. It is it's entirely safe. And I assume raw milk people will

be curious and concerned about adding sunlight to milk. But it retains all of raw milk's goodness

and makes raw milk safe. I mean, I I understand what you're saying. I also think that there are

a group of people who even when I talk to health food nuts, they're like, oh, yeah, you have to be

really careful with the raw milk. Like, if you don't understand it, if you don't know what you're

getting, you have to be really careful. And that for someone like me, it genuinely freaks me out

because I'm like, I don't even know what that means. Be careful with your milk. You know, I'm like,

I don't know. Well, the kids leave it on on the counter and then we're all going to end up dying.

You know, I mean, it is kind of a scary thing when you think about it. So I think maybe if you

are hardcore and you understand it, but my experience is that community has wanted to share,

but they want to share it in a safe way. And you're telling me that essentially your product is

going to share all of the benefits of raw milk with none of the scary parts. Exactly. And we're

very excited to bring that health giving technology to the consumers and make raw milk available

and safe. And I think the, I guess one of the most surprising things that we've learned in all

this is actually how powerful milk is. And to appreciate all of the bioactivity of milk that's

been unfortunately degraded by heat, I think the clinical research in the future will show, yes,

this is actually more healthy than we ever appreciated because we never, no one would do a clinical

trial on people with raw milk. It would never be approved. So this is a first chance for us to see

the power of raw milk in a safe way. And the people that consume raw milk today are actually not

wrong in its health giving properties. It's just dangerous. And people have died because of raw milk.

So that's kind of Russian roulette. I certainly wouldn't play with my children or, or my parents.

That would not be, not be wise. But you mentioned Parkinson's. You mentioned potentially

multiple sclerosis. I'm asked that this could improve. I mean, we just saw what happened with

Eric Dane and ALS. I think that there's so many people that are saying, why are these things

happening? And if we could study it more and we could find a source within our own food system

that could make us healthy, that's what so many Americans are looking for. Bob Comstock,

thank you so much for sharing your story today. And you're very welcome, Tudor. It's great to see

you. Good to see you too. And thank you all for joining the Tudor Dixon podcast for this episode

and others. Go to TudorDixonPodcast.com or the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcast. Wherever you get your

podcast, you can always watch it on rumble or YouTube at Tudor Dixon. But make sure you join us

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