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On this week’s episode of The Wine Makers, we sit down with Japanese winemaker Sonoe Hirabayashi of Six Cloves Wines. She talks about her roots in Nagano, her family’s long history of fermenting miso and sake, and how she found her way into wine, along with her connection to the art of Taiko drumming.
Sonoe originally moved to New York to work as a corporate accountant, but after getting hooked on wine, she realized that path was not for her. She headed to UC Davis to study winemaking, later returned to Japan to help her family make sake, and has since worked around the world. Today, she produces balanced, elegant, acid-driven wines under her Six Cloves label.
She shares her Chardonnay from Linda Vista Vineyard in Oak Knoll and her Alder Springs Pinot Noir, both showing a strong sense of place and her light touch in the cellar. She also makes Cabernet, Zinfandel, and a Grenache Pinot blend worth seeking out. [Ep 409]
Wines – sixcloveswines.com
Instagram – sixcloveswines
Hear Sonoe talk fermentation and play Tokai drums in San Francisco on Sunday April 26th at Sequoia Sake Company. bit.ly/3QftzQZ
The radio misfits podcast network from the birthplace of modern winemaking Sonoma, California
You're listening to the winemakers with your host Danielle Lengua, Bart Hanson, Sam Catery, and Brian Casey
Beautiful Sam. Welcome to the winemakers
Today we have Sonoma here by Ashi here with six clove wines
And special guest in the house too. Yeah, and special guest host. So as we're setting up
Brian London
Who is the song at TCP and I assume now be you as well?
Just happened to be here and and seem like you guys knew each other
So we said hey, why don't you sit down and join the show
So you're welcome Brian, too. Thank you very much
And we have just poured your 2024 shardon. Yes
Where was this ground? Yes. Well, first of all, thank you for having me today
Everybody to guess you usually thank us for having I don't think that usually usually they're like only if they sell finally agreed to come do this show
Don't
You're welcome
Okay, let me talk about the wine. So this is a lindavas of vineyard sharnay from stemasize
being very I have to say prevalence to get about two tons of grapes every year
since 2018 except some drought year and
Unfortunately last year, but I've been making this sharnay ever since so it is becoming my flagship
Yeah, where's this vineyard?
It's an oak no
And those of you that don't know
Yeah, he's
I guess you call him grape grower vineyard manager. I mean has probably I think you used to be the vineyard direct vineyard manager for the idels
Susan and Richard for a while
Made the wine farm maybe he did both. I don't yeah, he's one he's one of those
You know two way players right right
Well, then came on my radar because
He was making ribola geola back in the day
Right. Well, he just find it from from there everyone who's geeky about wines
They were like whoa someone's making ribola geola. There was like an acre and a half or something right in california
Yeah, that's in oak nul as well
Yeah, it was george very spingered and then when he passed they bought it
Yeah, we were invited him to be on the show
Uh, let's do that right now. Okay, hey
I can help you
Come by hang out bring some wine
Maybe we'll record maybe we won't I don't know
Yeah, but fantastic grower and um
Yeah, that's really cool that you were able to source some of that fruit
Yeah, absolutely
Yeah, so I had a chance to actually help him
uh rebuild the license
beat up
winery which is where his winery is located we're back in 2017
So this vineyard is called the fenix that the he was always buying
Cab and I believe they do also have merlot or calf from the vineyard
But uh the owner apparently wanted to solve the bingered and that came with the uh bonded
beat up
Rept infested
winery
So my role was to clean up all the wrap poo-poo's
Everything then you can think of that you don't want in the winery. Yeah
Along with other great winemakers
We'll do you buy a bunch of cats and just have them roll around or probably should have done that
Not winery cats man
But uh, yeah, so that was back in 2017. That's how I met. Yeah, that I was actually helping
Cool during the harvest time. Well, you want to go back a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, so um while we're enjoying this great
Yeah, um, why don't we tell us how you
How you run into wine? Brian approved wine. Yeah, that's right
Okay, so uh
How I got into the wine
So can I talk about my background? Yes, please do. Yeah, so um, I would have to say that there are
Hand full of a Japanese female
In the caliber in my industry including myself
Who's being around for over 10 10 10 to I mean 10 10 years 20 years, but um
I myself found that the wine is very very complex
ever since I actually moved to
This country over 20 years ago
And started working for a Japanese company and working as a accountant
In New York
Which is where Brian's coming from, but I just fell in love with the fact that the wine is so
So
So different it is so emotional
It can be even future commodity that you can sell or buy
And also such a
You know culturally so versatile you can always talk about there's always different ventures covers everything that I want it. So
So based on my actually family background that my
father's
size
Family has being in the area for generations and generations
They were actually
Salt March back in 500 years ago that they decided to try to bring in a salt from a node and
Well center part of our Japan. That's how they became salt
Yeah, salt was a very, you know, scarce commodity like sea salt were the more
Sea salt. Yes. Yes. Yes. We did not have any access to salt other than bringing in from
China Sea if not pacific ocean. So we were always scarce
We probably must have had a lot of plenty of rice's
Rice to eat but not salt
So that's how my father's
Side of families started engaged in something to use as a dribbler
Of the salt becoming, you know, soy sauce and miso making
and uh, yeah, and
My
The family has been making sake for generations as well. So they're actually
Married with the much-making by their parents many many years ago, but I grew up with the
practically the bugs are in my you know
Environment the whole time and on on top of that my
Great-grandfather decided to plant apples
In our property over a hundred years ago, which is said that we brought in
Cuttings from apples from state of Washington
Yeah, why from what was it that that was like the best apples come from I was say so
That was back in I was say 150 years ago probably that there was a time that japanese
Countries going through a big modernization transition
We I think a government wanted to diversify
Agriculture
Not just growing rice, but grow something else and my hometown Nagano
Which we had winter Olympics back in 1998. That was the Johnny Mosley
360 mute grab like famous everything. Yeah, sorry
They're all there
So uh, yeah, so Nagano is actually in fact that the known only that
If you ever ended up going to Japan you see lots of apples from Nagano now they are
Uh
Second or third biggest wine grape
producing
Area in Japan. What type of grapes?
Uh, so that's a good question a lot of on wine makers
wants to use a vinifera varieties, but they are prone to you know, they do not like a high humidity
Uh, leather like we have in Japan, but it seems to be that um
More uh rubraska or hybrid varieties thrive in many parts of japan and uh some actually some growers are making fantastic sparkling
Uh wines from table grapes like a Delaware. There's a small importer based in panelluma now called sea priest I believe
um
That was started by a guy who jake who used to um
Be one of the managers at valley and I've talked to them much. They're gonna they they were waiting on their wine
To land uh before they could come on the show so
We're gonna they're gonna have them on we're gonna have those wines some of these we'll try some japanese wines
um
Soon cool. Yeah, so I didn't ring anything today. I bought a japanese sparkling from chris renfro and his wine shop in same
All right, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was delicious. I'm sure that uh sea priest brought that in
Yeah, so uh you up yet. No, oh send him away. Thank you very much
For Stefan will be very pleased. Yeah, yeah
Yeah, I would have thought just with the apples that seeing this will show my
Total lack of geography. They're like Normandy where would be someplace that you would get apples from but to come all the way over
from
Washington, but are we closer? Yeah, yeah
But almost finest. Yeah, yeah
But you know, I think Washington normandy
I guess nogano
climatically pretty similar pretty, you know kind of colder winters
absolutely
all right, so so
were you
had did you have anything to do with um
Making sake or wine in japan before you came here? Uh, yes
So after I graduated from UC Davis in 2011. I did
two months internship with my grandmother's
family
sucky
Burley now wait a minute. How did that go because you
They're probably they've been doing it for a while and then you go to college here and then you go back there
Did you try and show them things and they said that's not the way we do things?
Absolutely, no, I didn't say
Yeah, you don't want to step on that
You had all of this information that you actually went to school with, so was there things that they were doing that you would have done differently?
I would have to say yes
But uh, yeah, it was uh, definitely one of the one
eye-opening experience that I would love to actually make sake here sometimes
Uh, even though something else uh from japan
Um, we grew a great rice in
California
Correct. Yeah, there's great rice out there in the central valley
Well, and there was wasn't there a sake company in nappa where when you take that turn
Yeah, like Jameson Canyon North Kelly Road. Yeah, yeah
They actually went out of business. Yeah, that's what I thought so so maybe
Maybe there's an opening
The optimist bread
Well, in fact that I actually wanted to talk about it later, but uh, I am a good friends was one one of the first
Bay area sake microboror called sake uh, sorry, Sequoia sake
Down in south San Francisco. I am organizing
fun Japanese women's
Makers event including myself my maker
Uh, Noriko is the one-re-corner uh, sake maker and another beer master woman who works for uh beer bottle
Uh, so we are going to have uh, interesting fun conversation about the fermentation
Uh, in april 26 and uh, I am actually a
Sorry, I'm kind of a spinning off all over the place, but I
You're figuring it out. That's great to hear. Where's it going to be? Uh, so it is going to be at
Sequoia sake in some south San Francisco. Okay. Uh, it is going to be on
April 26 Sunday. We have three sessions, but two sessions are practically sold out
But there should be still some opening
For 11 a.m. So how do people get tickets for that?
Uh, you can probably look for on the event bright site just punching um
Japanese women in fermentation
Cool. Those who are interested in coming to join us please do so. I just gonna be
The first ever event that we put together three Japanese women from all different
And you're also going to play a special kind of drum. Yes correct. The the tyco drum. Yes
This is cold Miyake tyco
Those who may have seen Japanese tyco drums on west coast
There are tons of uh tyco
drum groups
Which uh, I was heard that he started back in over 30 years ago that lots of Japanese American community had
trying to
You know have a more like a movement to try to preserve their culture. So um
Because of that there are tons of uh tyco drummers in the area. So uh, so this Miyake tyco is a sideway
All-time squat squatting style a very uh intense tyco, but uh a lot of audiences love it and I love it
And uh, it's uh, it almost has an essence of like uh, you know why I'm making that
Many of you would know that you would have to pretty much push yourself to have a high adrenaline
During the hardest time. Yeah, and the tyco
You know
Pretty much fit into that way that
I can utilize that the physical movement
And my sense of you know the focus
Wait, so you're you're doing the you are doing the drumming you are the she is the drummer. Yes
This wasn't like you're not like bringing in the wow, that's amazing
I brought in the the drummers. No, no, you're doing the drumming and the talking about the fermentation and the wine making
Yes, so in the selling of the tickets
So that is going to be very busy
Very busy
And it's during during the cherry blossom festival that is also another performance that okay doing which is coming up in next Sunday
Okay, uh in San Francisco. Okay, so there's two different ones. Gotcha. All right
Um, well Brian who had to step way for a second, but um he is always comparing music and wine together because he feels like
There's nothing else that exists that has
This many interpretations of you know
grapes turned into alcohol, but you know
People's inventions of sound through the movement of you know, reverberations now
Puts the wine in a different context. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know, this is get tyco drumming acidity
It's got some it's got some crashing intensity
Feeling it all the way through your soul, you know
Oh
I really liked that he did uh
Compare music against wine, but that I do really agree with that um based on you know who you are what's what you're looking for
What's your need
Even one single piece of music sound different, right?
And how you feel it when you're drinking when you're listening it sounds very different
and uh
When it comes to why making that um
After graduating you know graduating from a UC Davis that
I was in doubt that the why making is really the art or
Just a chemistry yeah, if you're good at in engineering or chemistry background
My thought that I could make a you know fine wine, but it just uh, you know throughout my experience
Starting my internship, including Tetlamin and other biodynamic
Growers from other country that I realized that it's all about the art. Yes. If you lose a focus
You're not gonna complete
The drinkers or audiences will not get the message that I want to send to them. Yeah
Yeah, I mean, I think I think chemistry is a tool and it's a tool in your toolbox
But it's it's definitely more leaning towards the art
Because no matter what nature is going to throw something at you that
You know, you don't have a tool tool in your toolbox yet for it and you're gonna have to figure it out
And it's gonna have to be like smoke team
Like smoke tain or you know
It's you know some weird not a rainy season or shriveled grapes or you know something and you're just you're gonna have to
Use your experience and your knowledge and your palette to be like what are we gonna do here?
How are we gonna push this through how am I gonna make a wine that I like that other people are gonna like
Um with what I have did we talk about this short?
Sorry, I had to step out there for a second not yet, but I didn't talk about your
idea that music and wine are interconnected and so no way agrees
Of course, I was not in fact the other day on Instagram. I was watching someone that was and I've you've seen this before
where people play music
During distillation or during fermentation
But I think more and more people are doing scientific studies on it and finding that it's chemically changing the liquid
Not only if there is music or not, but the different types of music that are being played which is really fucking weird
So like the years when you get the stuck fermentations in the custom crash facilities
It's because some intern took over the ox cable and fucked everything up. Yeah
It just went death metal
Yeah, you need a little fermentation you need a little twisted sister come on feel the noise
I like to sing I like to sing to my east
What do you sing? I don't know like lullabies. No, like don't worry. Be happy because I want that you to be happy
Well, I'm actually speaking of that so my grandmother's sake burles
well
hard
brother
Actually, it was a big
jazz fan
So he actually used to play jazz in the cellar
Yeah a long time and that was their PR market
Yeah, but it makes sense because even with plants
They've done studies that you know, you can put two plants
In the same room and one you talk to I'm kind of like you do your child and then the other one you don't talk to
And their shoes on at school. Yes
No, you speak nicely
To your plants here. Yeah, it does
To both hopefully but the one that you speak to
reacts differently and they they've done this study with water
where they'll take two different things of water one of them you
Give positive messaging to you just talk to it and the other one you kind of give negative messaging you freeze them
And then the ice cubes have completely different structures in them
and it's
Yeah, the little little snowflakes are different. Yeah, yeah
Late night YouTube and brands been doing no, I know those studies as well. I know those studies as well
Yeah, no, but they're really cool. It's all about positive energy and positive reinforcement and how that can
I mean, it's different, you know energies and changing
You know vibrations and yeah, I
I kid I mock but I also you believe in it. I know you do
Of course
And energy be gets energy. Yeah, so
Totally makes sense. We've all been there. Yeah, we definitely have
Okay, so you're in New York you are drinking wine
When you're having an accountant is they're going back to
Yes, I was just an accountant
I'm actually like what every wine maker should start
That is true
That is true. You should be in account first
Um, and then and then you just decide
How do you get from New York accountant to
UC Davis
Thank you for asking me
So I was on a suburban train every day. I see wait, so where did you live in what train were you taking?
I was taking Metro nurse. I used to live in on
The little town called Hartstale. Okay
Which is about only 35 minutes ride into Grand Central Station every day
I'm hopping on the train. I see the guys
Pulling the Wall Street journals course. That was the first thing that everybody has to do right right
But after that they get bored
They pull out quick wine spectator
And I was like, well, I don't know what they're doing. I was always peaking out from the side
I don't know this guy seemingly working for Wall Street
Yeah, I was checking the prices of the the wine
Ocean
Page
I was like, wow, this is really interesting. I should probably start buying
The wine spectator and I started becoming avid wine spectator reader
At one time as I was flipping the page
I saw that um
UC Davis
Is a wine school that they are actually
Get in the donation from the magazine and they're giving up the scholarship to the students
And back then I went back to school to try to get a CPA credential from city college and
By the time I was more of like
Accountant slash auditor for the big japanese corporation everybody hated my job
And at the time I visited their offices
They circulate the email to everybody's like so no, he's calling be prepared
Period
I do not enjoy that life carry in the hammer
Right
So um
As I was trying to
Shopping going on in the other room part in the background noise
Gotta get your tight ice. All right, no matter what day it is
So um
So as on I was seeking a next opportunity
After working for this same company for seven years I was um
Thinking that uh probably I should do something that would not regret when I retire
If you kept uh accounting job, of course you will be financially
Very stable
You will probably able to retire very soon
Probably by now now I would have been probably retired
but um
When you look at the fact that uh me as a person who came from
More like artisanal family in Japan that I did not see myself
Comfortably retiring and do nothing. Yeah, yeah, so
So the wine came into my picture like well, maybe I should apply for the UC Davis in state of completing my study in accounting
So uh back in 2000, I think seven when I was able to get into UC Davis that uh
A state of california was pretty much trying to
contain the you know
All the expenses that they they could spend on the students that they are only getting 500 students as a transfer students from outside
Of a california
uh parier
So that was such a narrow window that I don't think I didn't think that I could make it
but uh fortunately
uh
I was able to
Transfer myself accepted uh to become a student
Uh at the UC Davis. So uh back then I actually had a partner. I was married. I brought my ex-husband
Old away from New York
Transcontinental big move to Davis
In the middle of nowhere
Where uh two-thirds of population are all students
Yes
Rest is the you mind why making history
Did we talk about this short now? No, not yet
We have been late team pool a year. I just don't know how you made it. What was your thoughts behind it?
Um, so my policy is that on I try not to make wine
uh
As if like
If you have a beautiful woman in front of you, do you want to put heavy makeup? I like where this is going already
You guys all right the answer is no no you don't have to
So uh technically uh steam a size and I to to my knowledge that he's one of the most hard working
uh better cultures
You know area who is thinking ahead
climatically
So ever since uh as far as I know a bit by information is correct. He's being uh growing disc rips
If not other grips since 2003 or 2007 and um
I just can see that uh disc raves are so phenomenal so healthy
You don't even have to dress up anything not even the salt or sugar or nothing
Like a like a you know perfect like an organic solid that you don't need anything
What tomato?
So his grapes are definitely one of them. So why do we just uh bare fermentation um for primally um
Occasional steering if I need to but mostly I do not and I also use um tet lemons
uh
Y-making chart name episode that I learned back in 2013 when I was uh doing
So this is a hybrid of uh that Steve and tet lemons per se
So low intervention uh
I actually needed to filter that you're just because of more logistic uh reasons that you
As a wine maker understand that uh right uh which I didn't want to do it
But I needed to do it just because of the bottling line being uh every thing was filter
So I needed to filter unfortunately otherwise my wines are usually low intervention
Uh indigenous fermentation no nitrogen as unless I really absolutely need to
Um that's just the way it comes yeah just the grapes
Nice making alcoholic beverage
And how did you decide on your vineyard sources or what type of grapes you were going to work with
um
So uh there's actually two dilemmas that I have um
Locked one dilemma that I have uh more than half of my wines are sold in Japan
No way yes correct
I have been selling to Japan for the most in the last 10 years super cool
So uh in terms of uh uh
Japanese wine market uh when it comes to the share of a california
They are still very behind
They still stick with big
high alcohol california wines that's uh typically preferred still
uh in last 10 years that I'd be making effort to um
Make something that's unique that they do not have any exposure
In Japan yet from california
So I tend to stick with uh pino and chardonnay because of that reason uh but uh the next red that I brought today
All the springs of one will be a very unique vineyard
We love important it. I've been looking at my chardonnay glasses been empty
This is another great one and I'm reading whether to pour more of that
But I didn't text you asked me to make sure that
tries this chardonnay before we drink it off
And then I think I saw that you did a grinoche pino blend
Is that correct? Which I don't think I've ever seen before
Well except for all those years in burgundy that
Well it was but actually on the label. Yes
But I when I the more I thought about it, I was like oh that must that would be really interesting because those
They have some similarities, but then there's some complexity differences. Yes, it is a very interesting blend
I just did not realize that the why we make gms
Grinoche is such a great blending component
lighten up a lot of
The caluters and textures and flavor that the other varieties do not have
Yeah, so uh my role has been uh ever since I started
Making long and exporting to Japan is that now trying to showcase
The great fruits and the face of gurus and
Something that they do not see
Daily basis commercially, but I as a Japanese person who can send more messages
More reach to the more general consumers that I have been trying to do something different
So currently I unfortunately I did not bring my third
24 vintage
Cap that I source the fruits from Sonoma Valley right here
I graduated with the my good friend Sean
And Sean and Diego
Who also graduated from UC Davis, but they have their own brand called lagoon
They have been growing
Grapes organically in this area
I believe it they started back in 2018 was 17
So I source the fruits and I
Broke them back to Japan about a month ago and I introduced that
Cab was very little
Oak contact was beautiful beautiful
Cab from Sonoma slide that the many general consumers don't even know
That exist
So I was able to showcase that to one of the most famous
Psalms in Japan
Fortunately and I was tasting with five different
pretty significant
Figures in the California wine industry in Japan. They were so impressed that we can
You know offer so much that they don't know yeah, they just simply do not know that
California can offer so much
Well, is there like a natural wine movement in Japan right now too because I have a I have a friend who makes natural wine
And she's been traveling over there for the last couple years and I know that there I think that there are like
Music like record bars that only serve natural wine. Yes
Japan isn't interestingly
It has been probably almost two decades that they have been the second biggest natural wine market in the world
Period, why do you think that is?
So uh, this is my own interpretation
But I think it's a fact
Agent cultures tend to have more fermented food. Yeah, and our cuisine
We are so used to all kinds of fermenting
Products whether we consider as a flow or not
We take it as just something that's part of our cuisine and stinky
Food is not bad. It's good. They'll see for you
So that helped for the of particularly French natural wine makers or producers
Give a lead way to be able to send out
Which is kind of
But but uh
We we made fun of it like go you know Japanese people don't even know that it's a flow
Right they can't sell in France. So the levels of volatility more and off-putting to that
No, yeah, and like you know non-saccharomyces
fermentation flavors and all those things. Yeah, I mean and also the the Brian's
uh
pairing
Japanese cuisine
With more naturally fermented naturally appearing wines probably makes a lot of sense too, right? Absolutely. Yeah, no question about it
Yeah, I think you know just the fact that the flavor profiles are so inherently ingrained in
In the culture that
For me to be able to pair
In that fashion would be more
appropriate and more natural than trying to you know
shoehorn into a burgundy or something from the road or something from from here that wasn't you know in that style
Yeah, that that is definitely one of the aspect that said the reason why the natural wine has been so popular
Never phase this right. Do you think maybe because of the cool fun labels to
That needs a part of it too
A lot of it has visually
stimulating um
You know advertising
Assettock is definitely important
As important as for French people. Yeah
Yeah
So how did you get hooked up with Alder Springs?
Uh, I used to make wine at the small bines whose consultant is Byron Kasugae, another Japanese
You know
American person in
industry, but um, I
met him
When I was doing internship in Chile
In Casablanca back in 2013
He was still consulting
The winery called Kingston
From Casablanca back then. So uh, I got to know him for the first time that many years ago, but I was looking for
um
The new home
back in 2020 and
Byron happened to be
He was making wine
for test
plots
Trial wines that he he was making for all the springs for eight years
So a week for riotals or just like
In general
Uh, that's a good question. Uh, so think about the fact that the Alder Springs is the only one grower in one region that they did not have any neighbors
What's so ever
Until we make the wines you will never know
How the grapes is gonna come about
Right, so Stuart
Uh, I don't know if you ever had a gone to Alder Springs to visit the site, but this is very unique
But very rugged very different
Uh, poor nutrients
So in order to make a grape step um that a consumer would want which is us uh to Stuart
Uh, he need to make wine so that he can
Prove that his grapes are phenomenal unique, okay
Yes, and they play around with a lot of you sort of I guess unique for riotals to some people
I mean, we probably know them, but there's some experimentation that goes on in
Yes, uh, they do have a specific uh, trial lot
Uh, I think they still to the state
They plant at least 50 if not 100 different varieties
I try to encourage uh, Stuart to plant the Japanese one and only vinaffera variety called a kosho
Oh, okay, say more
What what
Was that a yes or a no?
Unfortunately, no because somebody has a license
um
To sell the kosho in California, unfortunate green right now
Uh, that uh, owner did not want to sell the cuttings too, so where is it growing in California then?
Innapping fact
And so and where is it going?
Who's making uh, so his uh, uh, his uh, well, actually, this is a family uh, father and a daughter
Jack and uh
This is the these pink grapes. Yes, it's a pink grapes
I thought you're talking about the people, but I could see that in the grapes
So it's a definitely green uh, variety that it gets really a little bit of oranges color
Uh, uh, as far as I know that
Japanese gurus in Japan do make orange wine out of it, uh
But so the flesh is white. It's just the skin. That's that really pretty pink. And it's a very high in phenolics
So it's it's not easy in variety to grow. Have you tried to get some to make some? Have you tried to get some of the fruits?
I do have to convince this jack and michelle to
Yeah, sell me the grapes, but they're exclusively planting and making
kosher right now in california
Okay, I will I will have to reach out to that, but uh, we'll we'll argue on your behalf. Thank you
So uh, anyway, uh, uh, Stewart is definitely
one of the best gurus for geeky wine makers like us who wants to
Make something different. Yeah, we hear stories about people going up there to pick up one thing and then you end up
Coming home with three other lots of
Grapes because uh, oh you want some of this you want some of that you should try this
Yeah, that was Jenny. Yes
Well, Jenny we were talking to Jenny Murphy about all the springs and she's the one who recommended you come on this podcast. Yeah
Yeah, she's one of them
Jenny Murphy from oxley ones oxley oxley grams
Maybe we need to take a older springs because we need a we need a shake Ridge field trip
Shake Ridge is definitely gotta happen because we want to hook up with Sierra wine guy as well as
Cramer because he's shaking some shit up right now, which is great. Yes. There's no
We could go to all the strings. I don't think there's anybody interesting else to connect with up there unless they're like dope growers
Which we could do
Sure
Follow your nose
Look out there. You could go to Farrington. Oh, that's right. Farrington's. Yeah. That's a pretty cool place
I mean Farrington's more like Anderson Valley though, right? Yeah
They latent villain Anderson Valley. I don't think or I don't
Maybe they're close on a map. I don't feel close energetically. No
No, I don't think so either. Not much as close to latent
This is also true. Yeah, I got a lot of love for latent. I mean, I went to camp in latent. No forever. There you go
Nice, huh? I got love for
Yeah, I got love for it latent
I don't know that I've ever been there
I've ever driven 101 to yukai. I mean to like
Um
Past through not to yukai, but to yoreka arcade uh
Up there you passed you latent well if you blink you miss it
For sure. Yeah, most of the time I'm that's probably that's like zone out more churches than restaurants. I think yeah
Yeah
So um
Why don't you walk us through this wine very pretty color
Um, you know, it's a very pale, right? Yeah, very
Delicate
Many I'm sure many of the listeners who are big fan of older springs probably know that their
wines are always very
Kind of dry side whether it's red or white
um
So the color
Never ever able to retain a color unless I decided to a pick really late, which I never do that
I try to pick barley so that I do not have to do any modification
As much as I do not have to in plus that uh, I do lots of a whole cluster inclusion
As a result of a whole cluster inclusion that
potassium settles
The totaric acid plus pH will go up so
Consequently, I do have to pick sooner
Yeah, so well, there's also a lot of pressure on
Picking later up there, you know, between the weather and the bears and the turkeys and the absolutely
It's one of the spices you kind of got to get to the fruit before nature does, right?
Absolutely
For this 24 vintage I think my whole cluster inclusion was a little bit less about
Well less than 30%
Otherwise, when I made this
You know for the first time back in 21 I did 50% whole cluster and was that based on like
Because I know 24 was a warm
So even if you picked a little earlier, maybe you had the acid was already kind of dipping
Does that a reason?
Or was it just the color of the peduncles or uh, so I think that year that we did have a malloc acid being high
Yeah, if you remember right, so I did or not want to take a chance of a lowering the
I mean lower in the TA. Yeah, we'll have pushing up a pH high
Yeah, so I decided to do stem
One of the the second lot I think that I got instead of a doing 50% whole cluster
I ended up doing whole very fermentation
And are you got how are you figuring this out? Are you having someone do sampling for you or are you going up there and actually
Doing sampling yourself
As there's all the spring scows
We try all the Y-makers try but imagine that during busy harvest time you do not want to spend five hours going to sample right
So they do typically try to
Organize all the Y-makers visit by appointment
They set up they they have a great crew of team right now that they schedule everything so that any clients
Whether they live a very far
closer if not closer
Can come visit the bingered within the the window
Of um the time that we expect that the grapes are going to come in to rip to target
ripeness so um
I would say that I try uh just because I live in subestable which is about two hours drive or I do it just get up
What is that clock or down?
Leave my home at six get there by eight nine. Yeah, and
I do the grapes as much as I can, but
As many of you may know that older springs
Whether it's very similar to
Under some valley which means that the higher elevation
Sites gets something exposure lots sooner. So when the summer is very hot
Uh their grapes coming very quickly. Yeah, where are you actually making your wines?
I am making wine at the punch down in Santa Rosa. Okay right now
And you're in subestable have you ever done pino or shardonnay from subestable or from west
Sonoma County? Uh, I
only made um
The pino noir from a winter
um
Because there's something about those grapes is it um
That you would that you maybe isn't in your style or is it the price of the fruit in that particular region is a little crazy
Well, those two are one of the reasons uh that
I have been a boy into me in question remember pino until it happened back in 22
um
I have worked with so many
Russian river pino all producers in the past in fact
I can't even fit in my two fingers. Yeah, that's how many I made wine for other
producers pino
um
I would have to say that uh, you know, there's nothing wrong with the Russian rivers pino nor but uh if you become a very
um
Custom to Russian river style pino nor that you can blindly tell
You don't even have to guess you can tell
So uh me as a person who consider myself that I should be making something unique
Not something identical to other growers or producers
Uh, I have been intentionally avoiding to make Russian river
No, make sense. Yeah, you get lumped in with a bunch of other people too
Yeah, I'm gonna get in trouble
The old the old palette fatigue
I'm gonna get the snow mechanic bitters
sitting with dead horse heads to my head
But uh, yeah, so nothing wrong with it. It just that uh because of my experience uh making great
pino nor for other producers
I feel like my role is not to
replicate
Yeah, the same way
So is older is older springs farmed organically as well
Uh, yes, um, so stew has hired three fantastic young
viticulturist
Uh, I think 34 years ago
He is uh converting um
Most of his site from conventional to organic and father step up is that uh, they have been um applying
Uh, the new method called the Korean uh natural farming right now
And their trellis system is not a boring same old ESP system, but they are also testing uh, the
Overhanging trellis system called what's in the sort
Wait, what does that look like?
They look like almost like another bonsai, but uh, they actually put the wire high up almost like my eye level
Like a five feet if not four
They placed a fruiting zone above far from the ground so that they can avoid any frost
Huh, like there's there's a tie in you know the tie
Marry some old Italian in the sense that the
Configuration or the way that we work is a lot easier, but uh, that's that yeah the once in a mess. So it is a lot easier
Uh, friendly for farm workers who has to go up and down of those steep
That's what I was talking about
Also good for sheep so they don't heal your butts
Better for the sheep and it's better you know for
Hot temperatures too if you're a place. I don't know
You know how rocky it is at Alder Springs, but in some of the rocky like carbon aviators one of the things that's happening now is we're moving the fruit zone
Radiant he's revert the heat further away from that he'd bouncing off those rocks, right? So it's um
Yet definitely moving the fruit zone up is
I think that's happening as a sort of climate change reaction taller ones. Yeah. No question. Yeah
Better for your back too much better. Yeah
He knows great. I was from the color. I was
Kind of like thinking. Oh, this is gonna be like, you know crunchy cranberry flavors
But it has black and red fruit. It's got like carbon and rock in there. I mean, it's very complex
Super savory. Yeah
Yeah, well, it's all about the foods as well. So Stuart
Decided to actually this plot is called
Helmsfield
Which is on the the hillside he decided to practically co-planting like a two or three different clones
Within a section that
One row is
House one next is Karella
The other one is four five nine and another one is pomade
So I believe I have five different
Clones that got into this wine and Stuart believes that that is how we get the complexity acidity
floral
Nose fruity
mouse feel all kinds of goodness of a pinot noir
So when you will pick up your fruit is it different bins have different clones or it's all just tossed in together
So they try to pick differently so that I can
Inspect the clusters before I decide to do
You know either this time or cluster that's what I was wondering yeah with stem inclusion then because some might be at like
different
Places, yeah, they do look very different. Yeah, they do look very different. How much wine do you make overall?
Currently I have been making about five hundred cases
Which is a borderline
Predaction scale
For one person to be able to
Somehow
Run a business if it goes down still little yeah
If it's go up just gets
More challenging. Yeah, as we all know. Yeah
And how can people
Get your wines if you don't have a wine club everything is just sold directly through the website and then I actually
I'm currently offering spring wine club
Okay, now. Yes, I do have a wine club
You definitely need to try that Grinosh Pino blend if that's still available
Yes, it is actually going through the bottle shock right now. Okay. I don't be a bearable
Very soon. Okay, cool. What do you do in your free time?
Uh, so what free time? I mean five hundred cases. There's times
I wish I had more time, but
She plays the drum. Yes, exactly. And are you working for any other wine makers?
And currently no, okay. I typically try to work for somebody during the harvest time so that I can get to see
What other producers are doing and of course it always helps me to understand
Didn't dig in
Acquiring acquiring more skills and knowledge and become friends was more wine makers
Was it Jen Murphy that had the special um tank built the shallow tank with the spout on it? Yeah
Do you know what we're talking about? No
Okay, I would just maybe think of it when you said you're kind of seeing what other people are doing
She had a maybe one of you guys can explain what it was exactly that she had done. It was a shallow
Tank because she wanted yeah, it was the like surface area of the of the
The musk to the wine ratio that she wanted to
It was like
Uh, long and rectangular
And there was also and there was some like sample valve things that she added that yeah, yeah, yeah
But it was like you're saying retention level here
82 wine makers
Reaching test, but it made sense because instead of the cap being in a small area very deep
It was spread out rectangular. So it was a shallow cap
That was spread out across almost, you know more like look like a little football field
But it when you say that she learned that I think from Paul Hobbs
There was something a little bit different, but then it didn't have a little um sampling spout on it. So then she had one made
Wow, that's amazing. I would love to see the tank right uh, well you should ask jennif she just send you a picture
Friends isn't that
Oh
Yeah, so what it will be friends after this
Um, so what are you doing like what do you do in your normal day-to-day life?
well, uh, so uh, what are your hobbies?
So my my hobbying and other passion is tiger drumming. Oh, you missed the tiger drumming conversation
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I went and saw there there was a group called ten dune that used to play at the shabot college
This is like 25 30 years ago that used to do drumming
It was like hour and a half
Really cool. Um, it is uh, very interesting. Yeah music to perform. Is it meditative for you?
Uh, not really
So uh, I actually started playing drums when I was little um, I
Evolved to become actually a heavy metal drummer
when I was in 20s
Meaning what like what kind of music you need to dig heavy metal heavy metal
But I mean, I thought maybe that you were playing whose your inspiration is what Brian wants to know
Well, it's just more to do is like a old-time stonder the greatest uh, probably
metal music. Yeah, it was probably a block album of Metallica. That's what I consider. There you go
That recently too, I think old generate of uh, people that in in terms of like as a music
It's just a part I think they perfected
But I stopped listening to them after that
And I was time to say goodbye to
Yeah, heavy metal drumming, so yeah, uh, but otherwise um
A tyco actually has a very similar sort of um, sense that
Uh, you will be in your zone
To be able to perform right but in addition to the music talent that uh, uh, the great tyco performer has to be aesthetically
spar as well
So many professional tyco drummers cannot last any longer than mid 40s they retire
Because it's such a physically intense
Uh, why is it like super big drug? Why is it so intense like that?
It's you're moving your body a lot
Uh, I didn't know exactly why those drums became that big, but it was more to do with ceremonial
Portus that we adapted
uh
The original form a muscle came from China
Yeah, so uh, but somehow uh, back in and I think like a 40, 50 years ago that
uh, those ceremonial uh, tyco drum became more
Like uh, the the part of the music and we actually uh, have a specific order to call the kumi daigo
Which means we play tyco in the group which is actually one of the more recent
Uh, phenomena
And so do you actually um, perform? Yes, I do
So the event the the you you stepped away. Yeah, yeah, the
The fermentation the three Japanese fermenters the bridessocki and the wine, uh,
Has sono a doing a tyco performance as part of the program
But but other than that, I mean like somewhere here live an aim on Saturday somewhere in Sonoma County
Do you ever just do events at um, yeah, yes, um, I think it's almost uh 20 years since uh, the organizers started
But uh, there's a Japanese cultural festival called maturi festival in sonorosa
In May uh this year is going to be May 17th, I think oh 18th, I'm sorry, I think it was Sunday
Uh, this has been around for many many years and I was always regular
Uh, unfortunately, I'm going to miss it uh, because I have a commitment to fly to dc for another
Asian-American
Pacific Gail under a mass event unfortunately, but otherwise yes, those who are interested in
Yeah, cool enjoying the music
Um, you're gonna be going to the apple fair. Do you ever go to the uh?
Uh, blossom. No, I was not invited to play pop homing on tyco, unfortunately
It's possible is uh, yeah, have you ever been in sabastical for the whole um, uh, apple blossom the parade and the festivities that go on
I just observed from afar
Yeah, it's a little crazy
Yeah
But that's coming up soon, too. Yes, correct. Yes. Yeah
The rate this spring is going the app, they'll be picking apples for the apple blossom festivals. Yeah
Um, so talk a little bit about the the pino grinoche blend that you did is that from older springs as well
Yes, and it was that did uh
Did stew just talk you into getting some grinoche that year or was it something that you were super interested in trying
well, I was um
Well, conventionally, and this is my way that I always have a core to the righties to make every year, but I always
picked a third one
Spontaneously whenever I find a good grapes
so last year
I was looking for the third grapes and um, uh, I knew that the stew, you know, has been providing
fantastic grinoche
uh, syrah
uh, the role in variety's also and um, I was just uh, casually
uh, chatting with him and he's like, oh, you know, I have a lot of a great grinoche
Yeah, do you want them? This sounds more familiar
Yeah, there's no this sounds like we've heard a story like this before for a few times. Yeah, okay
Yeah, I've got a little bit of this maybe you could have a little room also how um
Uh, Jenny Murphy came up with her
Weird like unusual blend, right? The white blend. Yeah, the white blend
Pickpoll and send on
Pickpoll and Shannon. Yeah, he was pickpoll and I I put got pickpoll and she was right
Oh, no, and then when she came back to rerecord the show she didn't bring that wine
Just because you just teased us just like you
Um, so did you
Did you co-ferment them? Did you ferment them separately and then blend?
Yeah, and we'll I mean, we're very excited to taste it, but will you be doing it again?
Do you think uh, I will probably most likely to get the Moulgournash
Yeah, yeah, are you in love with Grinashna? I do
I
Didn't know that the Grinash is such a fun great. Yeah
Did were you drawn to ron wine just for drinking before that or was this your like introduction into
Uh, this is more to do with the uh, yeah introduction to
Primality to Japanese market
Um
Like as I mentioned that the Japanese market is
Very simple. No, a lot of people know Sharnay Pino cab but nothing else. Yeah, no
So cool
Yeah, I feel like it's another variety that
has
Unlimited pairing
Opportunities with the cuisine. Sure, you know, yeah
Yeah, no question
All right, we didn't talk about labels. Did we? No, I said word the name or the name. Yeah, we did have less weird left the room
No, no
We had some of the Sharnay and wanted an acid trip. Yeah. Oh, you've got gorgeous labels. Well, who does the labels for you?
I work with my Japanese designer every single year
Uh, when I was uh
Still studying at UC Davis one of my good friends
Who are
studying
She's uh, she was another Japanese person, but she was already in the
trade
And decided to study why making so anytime when we are talking about the real world
That we have to go out there after completing a program
She was always emphasizing that you do not want to make
Bat looking label period
Mm-hmm
Period
So that always stuck in my head
For so many years and I decided to spend a little bit more money to
be able to hire
Designer
It happened to be that she was my original designer's girlfriend
Who happened to have a great sense of uh, you know designing
the label and
We we were just simply, you know
You know much made in heaven and say
In the sense so um, this actually label
um
Is the modified modified version of um
The club's flower. I don't know if you ever had a chance to google
Uh, the club's flower
You will see perfectly triangle shaped six petals
Like my logo. Yeah, I'm just used to seeing it dry
Using the clothes like that, but I don't know that I've ever seen a
uh, uh, fresh
He's just smoking high school with suicidal tendencies
Yes
Yeah, the name six clothes is because of my family logo
Uh, which was um will set to be adapted when we um my my family
Ancestor
Used to sell medicine on
uh, cool side
back and
Some hundreds of years ago. Uh, they decided to adopt
Clubs six clubs in the center of uh, let's tackle um as um, you know, imagine it uh, back then they must have selling
Must have been selling on orbs as a medicine. Yeah
So it was not every family has a logo. It just happened to be they was sort of business related
Yes, yeah
Because I think that's a cool idea. I think every family should have a logo. What would your family's logo be?
I don't know. I mean, we're Irish. So of course you think of the
Stereo typical
You know guy drinking a shot of james and or something, but um, but no, that's beautiful
Yeah, the labels are gorgeous. Well, that establishes something you're a james and family not a bush mill's family, right?
So that's um for the family look that's I don't get involved in the religious discussions when it comes to
drinking whiskey
Jameson's or bush mills in front of me. I'm an equal opportunity
Partake consumer in fiber. Yeah. Yeah, I don't have to deal with any consequences either of those actions. So yeah
So uh, one thing actually wanted to mention that uh, uh, uh, what makes older spring scrapes so unique is that I always get
unexplainable like a darker undertone
Or across like I didn't even know how to describe it. So I had a conversation with Stuart Stuart
About three years ago
I just simply asked him like why your wines. I mean the grapes are so different
Why so dry and different and I don't even know how to describe it
And he's like, you know, why don't I look at what's around in Arbingard? There are tons of pines
Pine trees around
So think about that all the uh, the grape gingers that are right next to eucalyptus
Yeah, treat
We do get those
probably um
Aroma compounds
Pines or go into the grapes. Yeah
So we can probably see that as used for a little bit more
Um, that makes it such a unique interesting wine that um
Lot of a geeky Psalms in Japan. I really like it too. It's like
Rustic sappy to people watch drops of God in Japan. Yes, they do. Yeah, it's a must
Study anything to do with wine. Yeah, you have to read such a great show
Yeah, I've made it all the way through season two now. No spoilers. No spoilers. I haven't lost season two yet
For episodes. Yeah, I think I can think about us peeing in the Cavari so
Right, I just thought we really missed out on the opportunity when they like in episode two of season two
Where they didn't know what the wine was that they were looking for that we should have put out an Instagram post
It said it was a bottle of 1660
We know what it is. We have it get it now before
episode three
Yeah, is wine culture is like for
Somalayese in Japan is that like
I don't know. How was that looked upon? Is it looked upon us like uh, you know
You want your son or or
Daughter to be a doctor or a lawyer or does Somalye have a little bit of like you know stature
Associated with it
I wouldn't have to say that as much as I'm making effort to try to
Make people drink more wines
Wine is still not accessible to most of the people
Unfortunately many many factors after the pandemic that all the goods are you know skyrocketing
European wines are so expensive. Yeah, so expensive more so than the US. Well California wine
To Japan. So it is just getting harder and harder
So those folks who can afford to drink my wine
Somebody who are in upper
Really even your wine. Yeah, it's the it's tax the taxes to bring the wines over
So let it go like the higher the logistics and margins that
They have a similar similar almost like a three tire systems as well. Do you think that's because there's
Socke being produced in beer is it people that own those companies that are trying to keep the taxes high so that people don't
Because you don't really have a wine culture because you're not growing vines for never are there then is it
Do you think it's other companies trying to keep the wine industry out or it's just uh, and it's just uh the
Japan has been struggling economically in past 20 30 years. So they're just they were just about to
Get out of a different what do you call it deflation
phase right around
The pandemic now that the inflation is hidden
Very hard and their wages are not going up as much as we we are
In the United States. So it's just the wines are getting harder and harder to drink in in return
Japanese domestic wine
Uh, making
growing
Industry is booming right now. Yeah, so
According to the statistics that in my hometown, Nagano
There
Supposed to be less than 100
Sake floors, whereas now that the numbers of wineries surpassed
In our area
Uh, so that's been said
Wine education is still going evolving in a different way
Uh, hopefully more people will drink wine, but uh as a brian said that
Japan has a very different
Cultural the way of looking at what the alcohol has to be and wine is still a little bit of a quite a way to be able to be
Uh, 100% adopted
However, uh, I would have to say that most of my wines that I make are
fantastic
To pair with Japanese food, which I never realized
That grapes have a lot, um, you know, tonning and
phenolics and acidity that's actually
pretty much common
Um, among uh, real traditional Japanese food
Particularly in vegetables, not fish
And umami flavors
Umami flavor to
Yeah, so the wines that
Of yours that get sent to Japan are they mostly being
Served in restaurants. It's not a lot of like retail going on with them. We don't make a ton of wine anyway
So it's it's going to
Mostly high-end clients
And that's and that's how we met we we actually met in uh, a socket restaurant in petaluma
So I was sitting at the table at the at the bar and the owner
Said oh well, I have this wine maker here. You're in the wine business. Would you like to taste her one?
And that's how we met so no one has ever said no to that question. No, absolutely not
So yeah, no, so it was great. So we tasted and I think it was the 23
Chardonnay
And it was the Linda Vista from a thyson and the wine was great and
So it worked out well. So we brought it into TCP and
Did did not did did nicely with it cool
You interested sounds like you were maybe possibly there was some
Connection with trying to get a little bit of fruit from
From uh enterprise
This is a wild back. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I did grapes. We got grapes
Got grapes. Yeah, I got to make more Greg. Yeah, Grenache and cab or anything like the Japanese of
Uh, yeah, clients will love to see more from here
Um
Cool. We want to get and tell people the date of the event that's going on in South San Francisco. All right
So it is going to be April 26, Sunday
Uh currently uh, 11 a.m. slot is still open
Uh, so uh, please go to event bright type in Japanese
Uh, women in fermentation uh, the events still pop up and I hope a lot of people come and enjoy
Very unique opportunity
And to enjoy the music
Yeah, yeah, yeah, feel the music
Um, and then how do how can people buy your wines or get a hold of you
uh, you can uh
Look for six clubs wines.com and uh, that'll um just to pop up my website and uh, you can
Buy direct online if you are local clients in Sonoma County. I will hand over your order. Nice to you. Okay. Cool
Um, thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you so much. I always appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah
Um, anyone got anything going on
Just but there's all kinds of things going on. Let's talk about it. Uh,
Moonman district in New York City. Yeah, May 13th
Uh, last year it was only trade this year. There is public
Tasting at flatter and wines that afternoon 13th. So if you're listening to New York, uh, there'll be 10
10 Moonman district wineries
Uh, pouring in and you can buy actually buy the wine that because we're out of wine shop
So we're pouring wines that you'll be able to purchase um, what else to go on on red wine
Rose. So getting June 28th. Howdy Craven's gonna be playing here at the Tasty Room
Dusky Estes doing the food, which is gonna be cool. We have the opportunity to hang out with her at TTC symposium and um
Her and John seem to be down with bringing the bringing the food truck a little pig. What's it called black pig? Little but the truck's got a name. Oh
I don't care. I don't think they got to figure out how they're going to fit that truck and trailer. I know
It's a big rig they got
But you can reach out to us for tickets at this point. They will by the time this show comes out will be available
Um, wine club members will already have gotten an email or a red chirp about it
But if you're not a wine club member of ours number one, you're a loser and number two
You can still come um, but you would just have to buy a ticket for it. Buy ticket by yeah
buy ticket and um
And then the next event will be Stanley Mouse Appreciation party coming up um in August talking about August
Yeah, let's get through let's get through bloom. Let's get through May
Yeah, okay
Danielle still got any gamma available for sale. Yeah, yeah
Again, just reach out to me at either Danielle makes wine or jammed a boi wine on Instagram and I'll give you that
Special code for $10 off a bottle. Oh cool for the gaming
And I saw Isabelle just jumped into a limo. So it looks like she's out
It was nice to have her here last a champagne in your hand off the ear heard and she was actually in the tasting
No more than any other time that I'd seen her before mostly because she was coming into pull bottles of new vote out that
To be like drinking every day now
This like thing we sprung on her accidental new vote that we make in 12 cases then she's had half of them. Yeah
But it was kind of cool. I think she's excited about making new vote this year. Yeah, yeah
Yeah, and she did great job with the 24 tough vintage to blend the 24s and everything that she put together
I'm excited about taste to great. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, she's getting married
That's happening. You're not invited. I'm not really most people listening. I'm invited. Yeah, some of us
Yeah, it was our first big day
Yeah, co-student. You uh Brian London. What's going on at TCP and be you?
Um just change the menu and the process of changing the menu at TCP the pairing you know the tc menu
That's all good. It's too much. Well, no, it's it's more subtle hinting at change and then actual physical change
Um, but
But it's it's a it's a nice it's a nice combination
Um be sure we're doing well. You know, we have lunch available now. So that's something new and brunch on sunday
Cool. So yeah
I was here. We talk about the cinema valley western reserve
I keep seeing stuff on Instagram and um about it. So just tell me where to be and
I think what time will be there? Pickers of us in there. So as we're going they put a name in the smell the name right
They didn't put it they put a space between 16 and 600 so um get some boots and a hat
I'm gonna be there. Yeah
Oh and also by the way, we can we offer
at TCP the uh the homage belong as part of the pairing. That's why I didn't want to change the barrier to do
I know. I figured that part out all by myself
And then at Bejou, we have the uh the 2018 uh Valomash
Um, available by the glass. Oh damn super cool. Yeah, I'm
16600. Gotta get it out there. Gotta get it out there. Yeah. Yeah. All wine with the word six
In the name. That's that's true
16600 and we should be partners. I think we just have to
You know, we just have to do Grateful Dead
Drew Grateful Dead tasting, you know, tasting parties and
I'm and then drink 16600 and talk about Grateful Dead. It's not some clothes. Same horse
I don't know. Can they you don't think you can buy those in California anymore. Okay. I don't I don't think so
Yeah, for the better. I don't think it was good for me. It was it was never good for any
People are just fucking vaping that shit. It doesn't matter. All right guys. Thanks for listening
Leave uh
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The Wine Makers on Radio Misfits

The Wine Makers on Radio Misfits

The Wine Makers on Radio Misfits