The Wine Makers – Sonoe Hirabayashi, Six Cloves Wines

The radio misfits podcast network from the birthplace of modern winemaking Sonoma, California

You're listening to the winemakers with your host Danielle Lengua, Bart Hanson, Sam Catery, and Brian Casey

Beautiful Sam. Welcome to the winemakers

Today we have Sonoma here by Ashi here with six clove wines

And special guest in the house too. Yeah, and special guest host. So as we're setting up

Brian London

Who is the song at TCP and I assume now be you as well?

Just happened to be here and and seem like you guys knew each other

So we said hey, why don't you sit down and join the show

So you're welcome Brian, too. Thank you very much

And we have just poured your 2024 shardon. Yes

Where was this ground? Yes. Well, first of all, thank you for having me today

Everybody to guess you usually thank us for having I don't think that usually usually they're like only if they sell finally agreed to come do this show

Don't

You're welcome

Okay, let me talk about the wine. So this is a lindavas of vineyard sharnay from stemasize

being very I have to say prevalence to get about two tons of grapes every year

since 2018 except some drought year and

Unfortunately last year, but I've been making this sharnay ever since so it is becoming my flagship

Yeah, where's this vineyard?

It's an oak no

And those of you that don't know

Yeah, he's

I guess you call him grape grower vineyard manager. I mean has probably I think you used to be the vineyard direct vineyard manager for the idels

Susan and Richard for a while

Made the wine farm maybe he did both. I don't yeah, he's one he's one of those

You know two way players right right

Well, then came on my radar because

He was making ribola geola back in the day

Right. Well, he just find it from from there everyone who's geeky about wines

They were like whoa someone's making ribola geola. There was like an acre and a half or something right in california

Yeah, that's in oak nul as well

Yeah, it was george very spingered and then when he passed they bought it

Yeah, we were invited him to be on the show

Uh, let's do that right now. Okay, hey

I can help you

Come by hang out bring some wine

Maybe we'll record maybe we won't I don't know

Yeah, but fantastic grower and um

Yeah, that's really cool that you were able to source some of that fruit

Yeah, absolutely

Yeah, so I had a chance to actually help him

uh rebuild the license

beat up

winery which is where his winery is located we're back in 2017

So this vineyard is called the fenix that the he was always buying

Cab and I believe they do also have merlot or calf from the vineyard

But uh the owner apparently wanted to solve the bingered and that came with the uh bonded

beat up

Rept infested

winery

So my role was to clean up all the wrap poo-poo's

Everything then you can think of that you don't want in the winery. Yeah

Along with other great winemakers

We'll do you buy a bunch of cats and just have them roll around or probably should have done that

Not winery cats man

But uh, yeah, so that was back in 2017. That's how I met. Yeah, that I was actually helping

Cool during the harvest time. Well, you want to go back a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, so um while we're enjoying this great

Yeah, um, why don't we tell us how you

How you run into wine? Brian approved wine. Yeah, that's right

Okay, so uh

How I got into the wine

So can I talk about my background? Yes, please do. Yeah, so um, I would have to say that there are

Hand full of a Japanese female

In the caliber in my industry including myself

Who's being around for over 10 10 10 to I mean 10 10 years 20 years, but um

I myself found that the wine is very very complex

ever since I actually moved to

This country over 20 years ago

And started working for a Japanese company and working as a accountant

In New York

Which is where Brian's coming from, but I just fell in love with the fact that the wine is so

So

So different it is so emotional

It can be even future commodity that you can sell or buy

And also such a

You know culturally so versatile you can always talk about there's always different ventures covers everything that I want it. So

So based on my actually family background that my

father's

size

Family has being in the area for generations and generations

They were actually

Salt March back in 500 years ago that they decided to try to bring in a salt from a node and

Well center part of our Japan. That's how they became salt

Yeah, salt was a very, you know, scarce commodity like sea salt were the more

Sea salt. Yes. Yes. Yes. We did not have any access to salt other than bringing in from

China Sea if not pacific ocean. So we were always scarce

We probably must have had a lot of plenty of rice's

Rice to eat but not salt

So that's how my father's

Side of families started engaged in something to use as a dribbler

Of the salt becoming, you know, soy sauce and miso making

and uh, yeah, and

My

The family has been making sake for generations as well. So they're actually

Married with the much-making by their parents many many years ago, but I grew up with the

practically the bugs are in my you know

Environment the whole time and on on top of that my

Great-grandfather decided to plant apples

In our property over a hundred years ago, which is said that we brought in

Cuttings from apples from state of Washington

Yeah, why from what was it that that was like the best apples come from I was say so

That was back in I was say 150 years ago probably that there was a time that japanese

Countries going through a big modernization transition

We I think a government wanted to diversify

Agriculture

Not just growing rice, but grow something else and my hometown Nagano

Which we had winter Olympics back in 1998. That was the Johnny Mosley

360 mute grab like famous everything. Yeah, sorry

They're all there

So uh, yeah, so Nagano is actually in fact that the known only that

If you ever ended up going to Japan you see lots of apples from Nagano now they are

Uh

Second or third biggest wine grape

producing

Area in Japan. What type of grapes?

Uh, so that's a good question a lot of on wine makers

wants to use a vinifera varieties, but they are prone to you know, they do not like a high humidity

Uh, leather like we have in Japan, but it seems to be that um

More uh rubraska or hybrid varieties thrive in many parts of japan and uh some actually some growers are making fantastic sparkling

Uh wines from table grapes like a Delaware. There's a small importer based in panelluma now called sea priest I believe

um

That was started by a guy who jake who used to um

Be one of the managers at valley and I've talked to them much. They're gonna they they were waiting on their wine

To land uh before they could come on the show so

We're gonna they're gonna have them on we're gonna have those wines some of these we'll try some japanese wines

um

Soon cool. Yeah, so I didn't ring anything today. I bought a japanese sparkling from chris renfro and his wine shop in same

All right, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was delicious. I'm sure that uh sea priest brought that in

Yeah, so uh you up yet. No, oh send him away. Thank you very much

For Stefan will be very pleased. Yeah, yeah

Yeah, I would have thought just with the apples that seeing this will show my

Total lack of geography. They're like Normandy where would be someplace that you would get apples from but to come all the way over

from

Washington, but are we closer? Yeah, yeah

But almost finest. Yeah, yeah

But you know, I think Washington normandy

I guess nogano

climatically pretty similar pretty, you know kind of colder winters

absolutely

all right, so so

were you

had did you have anything to do with um

Making sake or wine in japan before you came here? Uh, yes

So after I graduated from UC Davis in 2011. I did

two months internship with my grandmother's

family

sucky

Burley now wait a minute. How did that go because you

They're probably they've been doing it for a while and then you go to college here and then you go back there

Did you try and show them things and they said that's not the way we do things?

Absolutely, no, I didn't say

Yeah, you don't want to step on that

You had all of this information that you actually went to school with, so was there things that they were doing that you would have done differently?

I would have to say yes

But uh, yeah, it was uh, definitely one of the one

eye-opening experience that I would love to actually make sake here sometimes

Uh, even though something else uh from japan

Um, we grew a great rice in

California

Correct. Yeah, there's great rice out there in the central valley

Well, and there was wasn't there a sake company in nappa where when you take that turn

Yeah, like Jameson Canyon North Kelly Road. Yeah, yeah

They actually went out of business. Yeah, that's what I thought so so maybe

Maybe there's an opening

The optimist bread

Well, in fact that I actually wanted to talk about it later, but uh, I am a good friends was one one of the first

Bay area sake microboror called sake uh, sorry, Sequoia sake

Down in south San Francisco. I am organizing

fun Japanese women's

Makers event including myself my maker

Uh, Noriko is the one-re-corner uh, sake maker and another beer master woman who works for uh beer bottle

Uh, so we are going to have uh, interesting fun conversation about the fermentation

Uh, in april 26 and uh, I am actually a

Sorry, I'm kind of a spinning off all over the place, but I

You're figuring it out. That's great to hear. Where's it going to be? Uh, so it is going to be at

Sequoia sake in some south San Francisco. Okay. Uh, it is going to be on

April 26 Sunday. We have three sessions, but two sessions are practically sold out

But there should be still some opening

For 11 a.m. So how do people get tickets for that?

Uh, you can probably look for on the event bright site just punching um

Japanese women in fermentation

Cool. Those who are interested in coming to join us please do so. I just gonna be

The first ever event that we put together three Japanese women from all different

And you're also going to play a special kind of drum. Yes correct. The the tyco drum. Yes

This is cold Miyake tyco

Those who may have seen Japanese tyco drums on west coast

There are tons of uh tyco

drum groups

Which uh, I was heard that he started back in over 30 years ago that lots of Japanese American community had

trying to

You know have a more like a movement to try to preserve their culture. So um

Because of that there are tons of uh tyco drummers in the area. So uh, so this Miyake tyco is a sideway

All-time squat squatting style a very uh intense tyco, but uh a lot of audiences love it and I love it

And uh, it's uh, it almost has an essence of like uh, you know why I'm making that

Many of you would know that you would have to pretty much push yourself to have a high adrenaline

During the hardest time. Yeah, and the tyco

You know

Pretty much fit into that way that

I can utilize that the physical movement

And my sense of you know the focus

Wait, so you're you're doing the you are doing the drumming you are the she is the drummer. Yes

This wasn't like you're not like bringing in the wow, that's amazing

I brought in the the drummers. No, no, you're doing the drumming and the talking about the fermentation and the wine making

Yes, so in the selling of the tickets

So that is going to be very busy

Very busy

And it's during during the cherry blossom festival that is also another performance that okay doing which is coming up in next Sunday

Okay, uh in San Francisco. Okay, so there's two different ones. Gotcha. All right

Um, well Brian who had to step way for a second, but um he is always comparing music and wine together because he feels like

There's nothing else that exists that has

This many interpretations of you know

grapes turned into alcohol, but you know

People's inventions of sound through the movement of you know, reverberations now

Puts the wine in a different context. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know, this is get tyco drumming acidity

It's got some it's got some crashing intensity

Feeling it all the way through your soul, you know

Oh

I really liked that he did uh

Compare music against wine, but that I do really agree with that um based on you know who you are what's what you're looking for

What's your need

Even one single piece of music sound different, right?

And how you feel it when you're drinking when you're listening it sounds very different

and uh

When it comes to why making that um

After graduating you know graduating from a UC Davis that

I was in doubt that the why making is really the art or

Just a chemistry yeah, if you're good at in engineering or chemistry background

My thought that I could make a you know fine wine, but it just uh, you know throughout my experience

Starting my internship, including Tetlamin and other biodynamic

Growers from other country that I realized that it's all about the art. Yes. If you lose a focus

You're not gonna complete

The drinkers or audiences will not get the message that I want to send to them. Yeah

Yeah, I mean, I think I think chemistry is a tool and it's a tool in your toolbox

But it's it's definitely more leaning towards the art

Because no matter what nature is going to throw something at you that

You know, you don't have a tool tool in your toolbox yet for it and you're gonna have to figure it out

And it's gonna have to be like smoke team

Like smoke tain or you know

It's you know some weird not a rainy season or shriveled grapes or you know something and you're just you're gonna have to

Use your experience and your knowledge and your palette to be like what are we gonna do here?

How are we gonna push this through how am I gonna make a wine that I like that other people are gonna like

Um with what I have did we talk about this short?

Sorry, I had to step out there for a second not yet, but I didn't talk about your

idea that music and wine are interconnected and so no way agrees

Of course, I was not in fact the other day on Instagram. I was watching someone that was and I've you've seen this before

where people play music

During distillation or during fermentation

But I think more and more people are doing scientific studies on it and finding that it's chemically changing the liquid

Not only if there is music or not, but the different types of music that are being played which is really fucking weird

So like the years when you get the stuck fermentations in the custom crash facilities

It's because some intern took over the ox cable and fucked everything up. Yeah

It just went death metal

Yeah, you need a little fermentation you need a little twisted sister come on feel the noise

I like to sing I like to sing to my east

What do you sing? I don't know like lullabies. No, like don't worry. Be happy because I want that you to be happy

Well, I'm actually speaking of that so my grandmother's sake burles

well

hard

brother

Actually, it was a big

jazz fan

So he actually used to play jazz in the cellar

Yeah a long time and that was their PR market

Yeah, but it makes sense because even with plants

They've done studies that you know, you can put two plants

In the same room and one you talk to I'm kind of like you do your child and then the other one you don't talk to

And their shoes on at school. Yes

No, you speak nicely

To your plants here. Yeah, it does

To both hopefully but the one that you speak to

reacts differently and they they've done this study with water

where they'll take two different things of water one of them you

Give positive messaging to you just talk to it and the other one you kind of give negative messaging you freeze them

And then the ice cubes have completely different structures in them

and it's

Yeah, the little little snowflakes are different. Yeah, yeah

Late night YouTube and brands been doing no, I know those studies as well. I know those studies as well

Yeah, no, but they're really cool. It's all about positive energy and positive reinforcement and how that can

I mean, it's different, you know energies and changing

You know vibrations and yeah, I

I kid I mock but I also you believe in it. I know you do

Of course

And energy be gets energy. Yeah, so

Totally makes sense. We've all been there. Yeah, we definitely have

Okay, so you're in New York you are drinking wine

When you're having an accountant is they're going back to

Yes, I was just an accountant

I'm actually like what every wine maker should start

That is true

That is true. You should be in account first

Um, and then and then you just decide

How do you get from New York accountant to

UC Davis

Thank you for asking me

So I was on a suburban train every day. I see wait, so where did you live in what train were you taking?

I was taking Metro nurse. I used to live in on

The little town called Hartstale. Okay

Which is about only 35 minutes ride into Grand Central Station every day

I'm hopping on the train. I see the guys

Pulling the Wall Street journals course. That was the first thing that everybody has to do right right

But after that they get bored

They pull out quick wine spectator

And I was like, well, I don't know what they're doing. I was always peaking out from the side

I don't know this guy seemingly working for Wall Street

Yeah, I was checking the prices of the the wine

Ocean

Page

I was like, wow, this is really interesting. I should probably start buying

The wine spectator and I started becoming avid wine spectator reader

At one time as I was flipping the page

I saw that um

UC Davis

Is a wine school that they are actually

Get in the donation from the magazine and they're giving up the scholarship to the students

And back then I went back to school to try to get a CPA credential from city college and

By the time I was more of like

Accountant slash auditor for the big japanese corporation everybody hated my job

And at the time I visited their offices

They circulate the email to everybody's like so no, he's calling be prepared

Period

I do not enjoy that life carry in the hammer

Right

So um

As I was trying to

Shopping going on in the other room part in the background noise

Gotta get your tight ice. All right, no matter what day it is

So um

So as on I was seeking a next opportunity

After working for this same company for seven years I was um

Thinking that uh probably I should do something that would not regret when I retire

If you kept uh accounting job, of course you will be financially

Very stable

You will probably able to retire very soon

Probably by now now I would have been probably retired

but um

When you look at the fact that uh me as a person who came from

More like artisanal family in Japan that I did not see myself

Comfortably retiring and do nothing. Yeah, yeah, so

So the wine came into my picture like well, maybe I should apply for the UC Davis in state of completing my study in accounting

So uh back in 2000, I think seven when I was able to get into UC Davis that uh

A state of california was pretty much trying to

contain the you know

All the expenses that they they could spend on the students that they are only getting 500 students as a transfer students from outside

Of a california

uh parier

So that was such a narrow window that I don't think I didn't think that I could make it

but uh fortunately

uh

I was able to

Transfer myself accepted uh to become a student

Uh at the UC Davis. So uh back then I actually had a partner. I was married. I brought my ex-husband

Old away from New York

Transcontinental big move to Davis

In the middle of nowhere

Where uh two-thirds of population are all students

Yes

Rest is the you mind why making history

Did we talk about this short now? No, not yet

We have been late team pool a year. I just don't know how you made it. What was your thoughts behind it?

Um, so my policy is that on I try not to make wine

uh

As if like

If you have a beautiful woman in front of you, do you want to put heavy makeup? I like where this is going already

You guys all right the answer is no no you don't have to

So uh technically uh steam a size and I to to my knowledge that he's one of the most hard working

uh better cultures

You know area who is thinking ahead

climatically

So ever since uh as far as I know a bit by information is correct. He's being uh growing disc rips

If not other grips since 2003 or 2007 and um

I just can see that uh disc raves are so phenomenal so healthy

You don't even have to dress up anything not even the salt or sugar or nothing

Like a like a you know perfect like an organic solid that you don't need anything

What tomato?

So his grapes are definitely one of them. So why do we just uh bare fermentation um for primally um

Occasional steering if I need to but mostly I do not and I also use um tet lemons

uh

Y-making chart name episode that I learned back in 2013 when I was uh doing

So this is a hybrid of uh that Steve and tet lemons per se

So low intervention uh

I actually needed to filter that you're just because of more logistic uh reasons that you

As a wine maker understand that uh right uh which I didn't want to do it

But I needed to do it just because of the bottling line being uh every thing was filter

So I needed to filter unfortunately otherwise my wines are usually low intervention

Uh indigenous fermentation no nitrogen as unless I really absolutely need to

Um that's just the way it comes yeah just the grapes

Nice making alcoholic beverage

And how did you decide on your vineyard sources or what type of grapes you were going to work with

um

So uh there's actually two dilemmas that I have um

Locked one dilemma that I have uh more than half of my wines are sold in Japan

No way yes correct

I have been selling to Japan for the most in the last 10 years super cool

So uh in terms of uh uh

Japanese wine market uh when it comes to the share of a california

They are still very behind

They still stick with big

high alcohol california wines that's uh typically preferred still

uh in last 10 years that I'd be making effort to um

Make something that's unique that they do not have any exposure

In Japan yet from california

So I tend to stick with uh pino and chardonnay because of that reason uh but uh the next red that I brought today

All the springs of one will be a very unique vineyard

We love important it. I've been looking at my chardonnay glasses been empty

This is another great one and I'm reading whether to pour more of that

But I didn't text you asked me to make sure that

tries this chardonnay before we drink it off

And then I think I saw that you did a grinoche pino blend

Is that correct? Which I don't think I've ever seen before

Well except for all those years in burgundy that

Well it was but actually on the label. Yes

But I when I the more I thought about it, I was like oh that must that would be really interesting because those

They have some similarities, but then there's some complexity differences. Yes, it is a very interesting blend

I just did not realize that the why we make gms

Grinoche is such a great blending component

lighten up a lot of

The caluters and textures and flavor that the other varieties do not have

Yeah, so uh my role has been uh ever since I started

Making long and exporting to Japan is that now trying to showcase

The great fruits and the face of gurus and

Something that they do not see

Daily basis commercially, but I as a Japanese person who can send more messages

More reach to the more general consumers that I have been trying to do something different

So currently I unfortunately I did not bring my third

24 vintage

Cap that I source the fruits from Sonoma Valley right here

I graduated with the my good friend Sean

And Sean and Diego

Who also graduated from UC Davis, but they have their own brand called lagoon

They have been growing

Grapes organically in this area

I believe it they started back in 2018 was 17

So I source the fruits and I

Broke them back to Japan about a month ago and I introduced that

Cab was very little

Oak contact was beautiful beautiful

Cab from Sonoma slide that the many general consumers don't even know

That exist

So I was able to showcase that to one of the most famous

Psalms in Japan

Fortunately and I was tasting with five different

pretty significant

Figures in the California wine industry in Japan. They were so impressed that we can

You know offer so much that they don't know yeah, they just simply do not know that

California can offer so much

Well, is there like a natural wine movement in Japan right now too because I have a I have a friend who makes natural wine

And she's been traveling over there for the last couple years and I know that there I think that there are like

Music like record bars that only serve natural wine. Yes

Japan isn't interestingly

It has been probably almost two decades that they have been the second biggest natural wine market in the world

Period, why do you think that is?

So uh, this is my own interpretation

But I think it's a fact

Agent cultures tend to have more fermented food. Yeah, and our cuisine

We are so used to all kinds of fermenting

Products whether we consider as a flow or not

We take it as just something that's part of our cuisine and stinky

Food is not bad. It's good. They'll see for you

So that helped for the of particularly French natural wine makers or producers

Give a lead way to be able to send out

Which is kind of

But but uh

We we made fun of it like go you know Japanese people don't even know that it's a flow

Right they can't sell in France. So the levels of volatility more and off-putting to that

No, yeah, and like you know non-saccharomyces

fermentation flavors and all those things. Yeah, I mean and also the the Brian's

uh

pairing

Japanese cuisine

With more naturally fermented naturally appearing wines probably makes a lot of sense too, right? Absolutely. Yeah, no question about it

Yeah, I think you know just the fact that the flavor profiles are so inherently ingrained in

In the culture that

For me to be able to pair

In that fashion would be more

appropriate and more natural than trying to you know

shoehorn into a burgundy or something from the road or something from from here that wasn't you know in that style

Yeah, that that is definitely one of the aspect that said the reason why the natural wine has been so popular

Never phase this right. Do you think maybe because of the cool fun labels to

That needs a part of it too

A lot of it has visually

stimulating um

You know advertising

Assettock is definitely important

As important as for French people. Yeah

Yeah

So how did you get hooked up with Alder Springs?

Uh, I used to make wine at the small bines whose consultant is Byron Kasugae, another Japanese

You know

American person in

industry, but um, I

met him

When I was doing internship in Chile

In Casablanca back in 2013

He was still consulting

The winery called Kingston

From Casablanca back then. So uh, I got to know him for the first time that many years ago, but I was looking for

um

The new home

back in 2020 and

Byron happened to be

He was making wine

for test

plots

Trial wines that he he was making for all the springs for eight years

So a week for riotals or just like

In general

Uh, that's a good question. Uh, so think about the fact that the Alder Springs is the only one grower in one region that they did not have any neighbors

What's so ever

Until we make the wines you will never know

How the grapes is gonna come about

Right, so Stuart

Uh, I don't know if you ever had a gone to Alder Springs to visit the site, but this is very unique

But very rugged very different

Uh, poor nutrients

So in order to make a grape step um that a consumer would want which is us uh to Stuart

Uh, he need to make wine so that he can

Prove that his grapes are phenomenal unique, okay

Yes, and they play around with a lot of you sort of I guess unique for riotals to some people

I mean, we probably know them, but there's some experimentation that goes on in

Yes, uh, they do have a specific uh, trial lot

Uh, I think they still to the state

They plant at least 50 if not 100 different varieties

I try to encourage uh, Stuart to plant the Japanese one and only vinaffera variety called a kosho

Oh, okay, say more

What what

Was that a yes or a no?

Unfortunately, no because somebody has a license

um

To sell the kosho in California, unfortunate green right now

Uh, that uh, owner did not want to sell the cuttings too, so where is it growing in California then?

Innapping fact

And so and where is it going?

Who's making uh, so his uh, uh, his uh, well, actually, this is a family uh, father and a daughter

Jack and uh

This is the these pink grapes. Yes, it's a pink grapes

I thought you're talking about the people, but I could see that in the grapes

So it's a definitely green uh, variety that it gets really a little bit of oranges color

Uh, uh, as far as I know that

Japanese gurus in Japan do make orange wine out of it, uh

But so the flesh is white. It's just the skin. That's that really pretty pink. And it's a very high in phenolics

So it's it's not easy in variety to grow. Have you tried to get some to make some? Have you tried to get some of the fruits?

I do have to convince this jack and michelle to

Yeah, sell me the grapes, but they're exclusively planting and making

kosher right now in california

Okay, I will I will have to reach out to that, but uh, we'll we'll argue on your behalf. Thank you

So uh, anyway, uh, uh, Stewart is definitely

one of the best gurus for geeky wine makers like us who wants to

Make something different. Yeah, we hear stories about people going up there to pick up one thing and then you end up

Coming home with three other lots of

Grapes because uh, oh you want some of this you want some of that you should try this

Yeah, that was Jenny. Yes

Well, Jenny we were talking to Jenny Murphy about all the springs and she's the one who recommended you come on this podcast. Yeah

Yeah, she's one of them

Jenny Murphy from oxley ones oxley oxley grams

Maybe we need to take a older springs because we need a we need a shake Ridge field trip

Shake Ridge is definitely gotta happen because we want to hook up with Sierra wine guy as well as

Cramer because he's shaking some shit up right now, which is great. Yes. There's no

We could go to all the strings. I don't think there's anybody interesting else to connect with up there unless they're like dope growers

Which we could do

Sure

Follow your nose

Look out there. You could go to Farrington. Oh, that's right. Farrington's. Yeah. That's a pretty cool place

I mean Farrington's more like Anderson Valley though, right? Yeah

They latent villain Anderson Valley. I don't think or I don't

Maybe they're close on a map. I don't feel close energetically. No

No, I don't think so either. Not much as close to latent

This is also true. Yeah, I got a lot of love for latent. I mean, I went to camp in latent. No forever. There you go

Nice, huh? I got love for

Yeah, I got love for it latent

I don't know that I've ever been there

I've ever driven 101 to yukai. I mean to like

Um

Past through not to yukai, but to yoreka arcade uh

Up there you passed you latent well if you blink you miss it

For sure. Yeah, most of the time I'm that's probably that's like zone out more churches than restaurants. I think yeah

Yeah

So um

Why don't you walk us through this wine very pretty color

Um, you know, it's a very pale, right? Yeah, very

Delicate

Many I'm sure many of the listeners who are big fan of older springs probably know that their

wines are always very

Kind of dry side whether it's red or white

um

So the color

Never ever able to retain a color unless I decided to a pick really late, which I never do that

I try to pick barley so that I do not have to do any modification

As much as I do not have to in plus that uh, I do lots of a whole cluster inclusion

As a result of a whole cluster inclusion that

potassium settles

The totaric acid plus pH will go up so

Consequently, I do have to pick sooner

Yeah, so well, there's also a lot of pressure on

Picking later up there, you know, between the weather and the bears and the turkeys and the absolutely

It's one of the spices you kind of got to get to the fruit before nature does, right?

Absolutely

For this 24 vintage I think my whole cluster inclusion was a little bit less about

Well less than 30%

Otherwise, when I made this

You know for the first time back in 21 I did 50% whole cluster and was that based on like

Because I know 24 was a warm

So even if you picked a little earlier, maybe you had the acid was already kind of dipping

Does that a reason?

Or was it just the color of the peduncles or uh, so I think that year that we did have a malloc acid being high

Yeah, if you remember right, so I did or not want to take a chance of a lowering the

I mean lower in the TA. Yeah, we'll have pushing up a pH high

Yeah, so I decided to do stem

One of the the second lot I think that I got instead of a doing 50% whole cluster

I ended up doing whole very fermentation

And are you got how are you figuring this out? Are you having someone do sampling for you or are you going up there and actually

Doing sampling yourself

As there's all the spring scows

We try all the Y-makers try but imagine that during busy harvest time you do not want to spend five hours going to sample right

So they do typically try to

Organize all the Y-makers visit by appointment

They set up they they have a great crew of team right now that they schedule everything so that any clients

Whether they live a very far

closer if not closer

Can come visit the bingered within the the window

Of um the time that we expect that the grapes are going to come in to rip to target

ripeness so um

I would say that I try uh just because I live in subestable which is about two hours drive or I do it just get up

What is that clock or down?

Leave my home at six get there by eight nine. Yeah, and

I do the grapes as much as I can, but

As many of you may know that older springs

Whether it's very similar to

Under some valley which means that the higher elevation

Sites gets something exposure lots sooner. So when the summer is very hot

Uh their grapes coming very quickly. Yeah, where are you actually making your wines?

I am making wine at the punch down in Santa Rosa. Okay right now

And you're in subestable have you ever done pino or shardonnay from subestable or from west

Sonoma County? Uh, I

only made um

The pino noir from a winter

um

Because there's something about those grapes is it um

That you would that you maybe isn't in your style or is it the price of the fruit in that particular region is a little crazy

Well, those two are one of the reasons uh that

I have been a boy into me in question remember pino until it happened back in 22

um

I have worked with so many

Russian river pino all producers in the past in fact

I can't even fit in my two fingers. Yeah, that's how many I made wine for other

producers pino

um

I would have to say that uh, you know, there's nothing wrong with the Russian rivers pino nor but uh if you become a very

um

Custom to Russian river style pino nor that you can blindly tell

You don't even have to guess you can tell

So uh me as a person who consider myself that I should be making something unique

Not something identical to other growers or producers

Uh, I have been intentionally avoiding to make Russian river

No, make sense. Yeah, you get lumped in with a bunch of other people too

Yeah, I'm gonna get in trouble

The old the old palette fatigue

I'm gonna get the snow mechanic bitters

sitting with dead horse heads to my head

But uh, yeah, so nothing wrong with it. It just that uh because of my experience uh making great

pino nor for other producers

I feel like my role is not to

replicate

Yeah, the same way

So is older is older springs farmed organically as well

Uh, yes, um, so stew has hired three fantastic young

viticulturist

Uh, I think 34 years ago

He is uh converting um

Most of his site from conventional to organic and father step up is that uh, they have been um applying

Uh, the new method called the Korean uh natural farming right now

And their trellis system is not a boring same old ESP system, but they are also testing uh, the

Overhanging trellis system called what's in the sort

Wait, what does that look like?

They look like almost like another bonsai, but uh, they actually put the wire high up almost like my eye level

Like a five feet if not four

They placed a fruiting zone above far from the ground so that they can avoid any frost

Huh, like there's there's a tie in you know the tie

Marry some old Italian in the sense that the

Configuration or the way that we work is a lot easier, but uh, that's that yeah the once in a mess. So it is a lot easier

Uh, friendly for farm workers who has to go up and down of those steep

That's what I was talking about

Also good for sheep so they don't heal your butts

Better for the sheep and it's better you know for

Hot temperatures too if you're a place. I don't know

You know how rocky it is at Alder Springs, but in some of the rocky like carbon aviators one of the things that's happening now is we're moving the fruit zone

Radiant he's revert the heat further away from that he'd bouncing off those rocks, right? So it's um

Yet definitely moving the fruit zone up is

I think that's happening as a sort of climate change reaction taller ones. Yeah. No question. Yeah

Better for your back too much better. Yeah

He knows great. I was from the color. I was

Kind of like thinking. Oh, this is gonna be like, you know crunchy cranberry flavors

But it has black and red fruit. It's got like carbon and rock in there. I mean, it's very complex

Super savory. Yeah

Yeah, well, it's all about the foods as well. So Stuart

Decided to actually this plot is called

Helmsfield

Which is on the the hillside he decided to practically co-planting like a two or three different clones

Within a section that

One row is

House one next is Karella

The other one is four five nine and another one is pomade

So I believe I have five different

Clones that got into this wine and Stuart believes that that is how we get the complexity acidity

floral

Nose fruity

mouse feel all kinds of goodness of a pinot noir

So when you will pick up your fruit is it different bins have different clones or it's all just tossed in together

So they try to pick differently so that I can

Inspect the clusters before I decide to do

You know either this time or cluster that's what I was wondering yeah with stem inclusion then because some might be at like

different

Places, yeah, they do look very different. Yeah, they do look very different. How much wine do you make overall?

Currently I have been making about five hundred cases

Which is a borderline

Predaction scale

For one person to be able to

Somehow

Run a business if it goes down still little yeah

If it's go up just gets

More challenging. Yeah, as we all know. Yeah

And how can people

Get your wines if you don't have a wine club everything is just sold directly through the website and then I actually

I'm currently offering spring wine club

Okay, now. Yes, I do have a wine club

You definitely need to try that Grinosh Pino blend if that's still available

Yes, it is actually going through the bottle shock right now. Okay. I don't be a bearable

Very soon. Okay, cool. What do you do in your free time?

Uh, so what free time? I mean five hundred cases. There's times

I wish I had more time, but

She plays the drum. Yes, exactly. And are you working for any other wine makers?

And currently no, okay. I typically try to work for somebody during the harvest time so that I can get to see

What other producers are doing and of course it always helps me to understand

Didn't dig in

Acquiring acquiring more skills and knowledge and become friends was more wine makers

Was it Jen Murphy that had the special um tank built the shallow tank with the spout on it? Yeah

Do you know what we're talking about? No

Okay, I would just maybe think of it when you said you're kind of seeing what other people are doing

She had a maybe one of you guys can explain what it was exactly that she had done. It was a shallow

Tank because she wanted yeah, it was the like surface area of the of the

The musk to the wine ratio that she wanted to

It was like

Uh, long and rectangular

And there was also and there was some like sample valve things that she added that yeah, yeah, yeah

But it was like you're saying retention level here

82 wine makers

Reaching test, but it made sense because instead of the cap being in a small area very deep

It was spread out rectangular. So it was a shallow cap

That was spread out across almost, you know more like look like a little football field

But it when you say that she learned that I think from Paul Hobbs

There was something a little bit different, but then it didn't have a little um sampling spout on it. So then she had one made

Wow, that's amazing. I would love to see the tank right uh, well you should ask jennif she just send you a picture

Friends isn't that

Oh

Yeah, so what it will be friends after this

Um, so what are you doing like what do you do in your normal day-to-day life?

well, uh, so uh, what are your hobbies?

So my my hobbying and other passion is tiger drumming. Oh, you missed the tiger drumming conversation

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I went and saw there there was a group called ten dune that used to play at the shabot college

This is like 25 30 years ago that used to do drumming

It was like hour and a half

Really cool. Um, it is uh, very interesting. Yeah music to perform. Is it meditative for you?

Uh, not really

So uh, I actually started playing drums when I was little um, I

Evolved to become actually a heavy metal drummer

when I was in 20s

Meaning what like what kind of music you need to dig heavy metal heavy metal

But I mean, I thought maybe that you were playing whose your inspiration is what Brian wants to know

Well, it's just more to do is like a old-time stonder the greatest uh, probably

metal music. Yeah, it was probably a block album of Metallica. That's what I consider. There you go

That recently too, I think old generate of uh, people that in in terms of like as a music

It's just a part I think they perfected

But I stopped listening to them after that

And I was time to say goodbye to

Yeah, heavy metal drumming, so yeah, uh, but otherwise um

A tyco actually has a very similar sort of um, sense that

Uh, you will be in your zone

To be able to perform right but in addition to the music talent that uh, uh, the great tyco performer has to be aesthetically

spar as well

So many professional tyco drummers cannot last any longer than mid 40s they retire

Because it's such a physically intense

Uh, why is it like super big drug? Why is it so intense like that?

It's you're moving your body a lot

Uh, I didn't know exactly why those drums became that big, but it was more to do with ceremonial

Portus that we adapted

uh

The original form a muscle came from China

Yeah, so uh, but somehow uh, back in and I think like a 40, 50 years ago that

uh, those ceremonial uh, tyco drum became more

Like uh, the the part of the music and we actually uh, have a specific order to call the kumi daigo

Which means we play tyco in the group which is actually one of the more recent

Uh, phenomena

And so do you actually um, perform? Yes, I do

So the event the the you you stepped away. Yeah, yeah, the

The fermentation the three Japanese fermenters the bridessocki and the wine, uh,

Has sono a doing a tyco performance as part of the program

But but other than that, I mean like somewhere here live an aim on Saturday somewhere in Sonoma County

Do you ever just do events at um, yeah, yes, um, I think it's almost uh 20 years since uh, the organizers started

But uh, there's a Japanese cultural festival called maturi festival in sonorosa

In May uh this year is going to be May 17th, I think oh 18th, I'm sorry, I think it was Sunday

Uh, this has been around for many many years and I was always regular

Uh, unfortunately, I'm going to miss it uh, because I have a commitment to fly to dc for another

Asian-American

Pacific Gail under a mass event unfortunately, but otherwise yes, those who are interested in

Yeah, cool enjoying the music

Um, you're gonna be going to the apple fair. Do you ever go to the uh?

Uh, blossom. No, I was not invited to play pop homing on tyco, unfortunately

It's possible is uh, yeah, have you ever been in sabastical for the whole um, uh, apple blossom the parade and the festivities that go on

I just observed from afar

Yeah, it's a little crazy

Yeah

But that's coming up soon, too. Yes, correct. Yes. Yeah

The rate this spring is going the app, they'll be picking apples for the apple blossom festivals. Yeah

Um, so talk a little bit about the the pino grinoche blend that you did is that from older springs as well

Yes, and it was that did uh

Did stew just talk you into getting some grinoche that year or was it something that you were super interested in trying

well, I was um

Well, conventionally, and this is my way that I always have a core to the righties to make every year, but I always

picked a third one

Spontaneously whenever I find a good grapes

so last year

I was looking for the third grapes and um, uh, I knew that the stew, you know, has been providing

fantastic grinoche

uh, syrah

uh, the role in variety's also and um, I was just uh, casually

uh, chatting with him and he's like, oh, you know, I have a lot of a great grinoche

Yeah, do you want them? This sounds more familiar

Yeah, there's no this sounds like we've heard a story like this before for a few times. Yeah, okay

Yeah, I've got a little bit of this maybe you could have a little room also how um

Uh, Jenny Murphy came up with her

Weird like unusual blend, right? The white blend. Yeah, the white blend

Pickpoll and send on

Pickpoll and Shannon. Yeah, he was pickpoll and I I put got pickpoll and she was right

Oh, no, and then when she came back to rerecord the show she didn't bring that wine

Just because you just teased us just like you

Um, so did you

Did you co-ferment them? Did you ferment them separately and then blend?

Yeah, and we'll I mean, we're very excited to taste it, but will you be doing it again?

Do you think uh, I will probably most likely to get the Moulgournash

Yeah, yeah, are you in love with Grinashna? I do

I

Didn't know that the Grinash is such a fun great. Yeah

Did were you drawn to ron wine just for drinking before that or was this your like introduction into

Uh, this is more to do with the uh, yeah introduction to

Primality to Japanese market

Um

Like as I mentioned that the Japanese market is

Very simple. No, a lot of people know Sharnay Pino cab but nothing else. Yeah, no

So cool

Yeah, I feel like it's another variety that

has

Unlimited pairing

Opportunities with the cuisine. Sure, you know, yeah

Yeah, no question

All right, we didn't talk about labels. Did we? No, I said word the name or the name. Yeah, we did have less weird left the room

No, no

We had some of the Sharnay and wanted an acid trip. Yeah. Oh, you've got gorgeous labels. Well, who does the labels for you?

I work with my Japanese designer every single year

Uh, when I was uh

Still studying at UC Davis one of my good friends

Who are

studying

She's uh, she was another Japanese person, but she was already in the

trade

And decided to study why making so anytime when we are talking about the real world

That we have to go out there after completing a program

She was always emphasizing that you do not want to make

Bat looking label period

Mm-hmm

Period

So that always stuck in my head

For so many years and I decided to spend a little bit more money to

be able to hire

Designer

It happened to be that she was my original designer's girlfriend

Who happened to have a great sense of uh, you know designing

the label and

We we were just simply, you know

You know much made in heaven and say

In the sense so um, this actually label

um

Is the modified modified version of um

The club's flower. I don't know if you ever had a chance to google

Uh, the club's flower

You will see perfectly triangle shaped six petals

Like my logo. Yeah, I'm just used to seeing it dry

Using the clothes like that, but I don't know that I've ever seen a

uh, uh, fresh

He's just smoking high school with suicidal tendencies

Yes

Yeah, the name six clothes is because of my family logo

Uh, which was um will set to be adapted when we um my my family

Ancestor

Used to sell medicine on

uh, cool side

back and

Some hundreds of years ago. Uh, they decided to adopt

Clubs six clubs in the center of uh, let's tackle um as um, you know, imagine it uh, back then they must have selling

Must have been selling on orbs as a medicine. Yeah

So it was not every family has a logo. It just happened to be they was sort of business related

Yes, yeah

Because I think that's a cool idea. I think every family should have a logo. What would your family's logo be?

I don't know. I mean, we're Irish. So of course you think of the

Stereo typical

You know guy drinking a shot of james and or something, but um, but no, that's beautiful

Yeah, the labels are gorgeous. Well, that establishes something you're a james and family not a bush mill's family, right?

So that's um for the family look that's I don't get involved in the religious discussions when it comes to

drinking whiskey

Jameson's or bush mills in front of me. I'm an equal opportunity

Partake consumer in fiber. Yeah. Yeah, I don't have to deal with any consequences either of those actions. So yeah

So uh, one thing actually wanted to mention that uh, uh, uh, what makes older spring scrapes so unique is that I always get

unexplainable like a darker undertone

Or across like I didn't even know how to describe it. So I had a conversation with Stuart Stuart

About three years ago

I just simply asked him like why your wines. I mean the grapes are so different

Why so dry and different and I don't even know how to describe it

And he's like, you know, why don't I look at what's around in Arbingard? There are tons of pines

Pine trees around

So think about that all the uh, the grape gingers that are right next to eucalyptus

Yeah, treat

We do get those

probably um

Aroma compounds

Pines or go into the grapes. Yeah

So we can probably see that as used for a little bit more

Um, that makes it such a unique interesting wine that um

Lot of a geeky Psalms in Japan. I really like it too. It's like

Rustic sappy to people watch drops of God in Japan. Yes, they do. Yeah, it's a must

Study anything to do with wine. Yeah, you have to read such a great show

Yeah, I've made it all the way through season two now. No spoilers. No spoilers. I haven't lost season two yet

For episodes. Yeah, I think I can think about us peeing in the Cavari so

Right, I just thought we really missed out on the opportunity when they like in episode two of season two

Where they didn't know what the wine was that they were looking for that we should have put out an Instagram post

It said it was a bottle of 1660

We know what it is. We have it get it now before

episode three

Yeah, is wine culture is like for

Somalayese in Japan is that like

I don't know. How was that looked upon? Is it looked upon us like uh, you know

You want your son or or

Daughter to be a doctor or a lawyer or does Somalye have a little bit of like you know stature

Associated with it

I wouldn't have to say that as much as I'm making effort to try to

Make people drink more wines

Wine is still not accessible to most of the people

Unfortunately many many factors after the pandemic that all the goods are you know skyrocketing

European wines are so expensive. Yeah, so expensive more so than the US. Well California wine

To Japan. So it is just getting harder and harder

So those folks who can afford to drink my wine

Somebody who are in upper

Really even your wine. Yeah, it's the it's tax the taxes to bring the wines over

So let it go like the higher the logistics and margins that

They have a similar similar almost like a three tire systems as well. Do you think that's because there's

Socke being produced in beer is it people that own those companies that are trying to keep the taxes high so that people don't

Because you don't really have a wine culture because you're not growing vines for never are there then is it

Do you think it's other companies trying to keep the wine industry out or it's just uh, and it's just uh the

Japan has been struggling economically in past 20 30 years. So they're just they were just about to

Get out of a different what do you call it deflation

phase right around

The pandemic now that the inflation is hidden

Very hard and their wages are not going up as much as we we are

In the United States. So it's just the wines are getting harder and harder to drink in in return

Japanese domestic wine

Uh, making

growing

Industry is booming right now. Yeah, so

According to the statistics that in my hometown, Nagano

There

Supposed to be less than 100

Sake floors, whereas now that the numbers of wineries surpassed

In our area

Uh, so that's been said

Wine education is still going evolving in a different way

Uh, hopefully more people will drink wine, but uh as a brian said that

Japan has a very different

Cultural the way of looking at what the alcohol has to be and wine is still a little bit of a quite a way to be able to be

Uh, 100% adopted

However, uh, I would have to say that most of my wines that I make are

fantastic

To pair with Japanese food, which I never realized

That grapes have a lot, um, you know, tonning and

phenolics and acidity that's actually

pretty much common

Um, among uh, real traditional Japanese food

Particularly in vegetables, not fish

And umami flavors

Umami flavor to

Yeah, so the wines that

Of yours that get sent to Japan are they mostly being

Served in restaurants. It's not a lot of like retail going on with them. We don't make a ton of wine anyway

So it's it's going to

Mostly high-end clients

And that's and that's how we met we we actually met in uh, a socket restaurant in petaluma

So I was sitting at the table at the at the bar and the owner

Said oh well, I have this wine maker here. You're in the wine business. Would you like to taste her one?

And that's how we met so no one has ever said no to that question. No, absolutely not

So yeah, no, so it was great. So we tasted and I think it was the 23

Chardonnay

And it was the Linda Vista from a thyson and the wine was great and

So it worked out well. So we brought it into TCP and

Did did not did did nicely with it cool

You interested sounds like you were maybe possibly there was some

Connection with trying to get a little bit of fruit from

From uh enterprise

This is a wild back. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I did grapes. We got grapes

Got grapes. Yeah, I got to make more Greg. Yeah, Grenache and cab or anything like the Japanese of

Uh, yeah, clients will love to see more from here

Um

Cool. We want to get and tell people the date of the event that's going on in South San Francisco. All right

So it is going to be April 26, Sunday

Uh currently uh, 11 a.m. slot is still open

Uh, so uh, please go to event bright type in Japanese

Uh, women in fermentation uh, the events still pop up and I hope a lot of people come and enjoy

Very unique opportunity

And to enjoy the music

Yeah, yeah, yeah, feel the music

Um, and then how do how can people buy your wines or get a hold of you

uh, you can uh

Look for six clubs wines.com and uh, that'll um just to pop up my website and uh, you can

Buy direct online if you are local clients in Sonoma County. I will hand over your order. Nice to you. Okay. Cool

Um, thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you so much. I always appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah

Um, anyone got anything going on

Just but there's all kinds of things going on. Let's talk about it. Uh,

Moonman district in New York City. Yeah, May 13th

Uh, last year it was only trade this year. There is public

Tasting at flatter and wines that afternoon 13th. So if you're listening to New York, uh, there'll be 10

10 Moonman district wineries

Uh, pouring in and you can buy actually buy the wine that because we're out of wine shop

So we're pouring wines that you'll be able to purchase um, what else to go on on red wine

Rose. So getting June 28th. Howdy Craven's gonna be playing here at the Tasty Room

Dusky Estes doing the food, which is gonna be cool. We have the opportunity to hang out with her at TTC symposium and um

Her and John seem to be down with bringing the bringing the food truck a little pig. What's it called black pig? Little but the truck's got a name. Oh

I don't care. I don't think they got to figure out how they're going to fit that truck and trailer. I know

It's a big rig they got

But you can reach out to us for tickets at this point. They will by the time this show comes out will be available

Um, wine club members will already have gotten an email or a red chirp about it

But if you're not a wine club member of ours number one, you're a loser and number two

You can still come um, but you would just have to buy a ticket for it. Buy ticket by yeah

buy ticket and um

And then the next event will be Stanley Mouse Appreciation party coming up um in August talking about August

Yeah, let's get through let's get through bloom. Let's get through May

Yeah, okay

Danielle still got any gamma available for sale. Yeah, yeah

Again, just reach out to me at either Danielle makes wine or jammed a boi wine on Instagram and I'll give you that

Special code for $10 off a bottle. Oh cool for the gaming

And I saw Isabelle just jumped into a limo. So it looks like she's out

It was nice to have her here last a champagne in your hand off the ear heard and she was actually in the tasting

No more than any other time that I'd seen her before mostly because she was coming into pull bottles of new vote out that

To be like drinking every day now

This like thing we sprung on her accidental new vote that we make in 12 cases then she's had half of them. Yeah

But it was kind of cool. I think she's excited about making new vote this year. Yeah, yeah

Yeah, and she did great job with the 24 tough vintage to blend the 24s and everything that she put together

I'm excited about taste to great. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, she's getting married

That's happening. You're not invited. I'm not really most people listening. I'm invited. Yeah, some of us

Yeah, it was our first big day

Yeah, co-student. You uh Brian London. What's going on at TCP and be you?

Um just change the menu and the process of changing the menu at TCP the pairing you know the tc menu

That's all good. It's too much. Well, no, it's it's more subtle hinting at change and then actual physical change

Um, but

But it's it's a it's a nice it's a nice combination

Um be sure we're doing well. You know, we have lunch available now. So that's something new and brunch on sunday

Cool. So yeah

I was here. We talk about the cinema valley western reserve

I keep seeing stuff on Instagram and um about it. So just tell me where to be and

I think what time will be there? Pickers of us in there. So as we're going they put a name in the smell the name right

They didn't put it they put a space between 16 and 600 so um get some boots and a hat

I'm gonna be there. Yeah

Oh and also by the way, we can we offer

at TCP the uh the homage belong as part of the pairing. That's why I didn't want to change the barrier to do

I know. I figured that part out all by myself

And then at Bejou, we have the uh the 2018 uh Valomash

Um, available by the glass. Oh damn super cool. Yeah, I'm

16600. Gotta get it out there. Gotta get it out there. Yeah. Yeah. All wine with the word six

In the name. That's that's true

16600 and we should be partners. I think we just have to

You know, we just have to do Grateful Dead

Drew Grateful Dead tasting, you know, tasting parties and

I'm and then drink 16600 and talk about Grateful Dead. It's not some clothes. Same horse

I don't know. Can they you don't think you can buy those in California anymore. Okay. I don't I don't think so

Yeah, for the better. I don't think it was good for me. It was it was never good for any

People are just fucking vaping that shit. It doesn't matter. All right guys. Thanks for listening

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