There’s Always a New Monster to Destroy (w/ Noam Dworman) #549

0:00The fact that she's there with Candace Owlens and Tucker Carlson and his demons and underwater UFOs and Alex Jones as a divine prophet and the fact that they can all gather together and be comfortable with each other And that makes up like that's the Intellectual Gold Standard of the Anti-Israel position right is these fucking nuts Who will take in any other nut as long as they say the right things Method of a pack Greetings and welcome back to another exciting installment of the fifth column podcast This is your weekly rhetorical the Sultan new cycle the people that make it occasionally ourselves I'm Camille Foster. I'm delighted to be here. I feel a little bit better. Thank you so much for all of your kind words and the outpouring of support It just means the world to me My man of hand is here Matt Welch is here His ankle had a small injury situation

1:04It's just a minor brace just supportive as I get back into the physicality starting to get the reps doing the one-on-one again And I'm talking to to our friend Noam Dorman who is the guest on the fifth column today. No of the first time which is amazing Interestingly because no you are this like fixture this New York City fixture an icon But also an icon of the comedy world the the owner of the comedy seller and the family of properties associated with it And pontificator on many things on your podcast Pontificator has a negative connotation But but not just that like the sort of person who on your podcast will bring in people Who have disreputable perspectives on things and actually talk to them about those things in detail You generally, I think try to operate in space and prosecute them Yeah that's true sometimes it certainly seems very lawyerly

2:05With the sheets and papers and your half glasses like wow You said it's like I forgot to say because I thought there's a comedy show So I don't know what you've got in hand today, but if that is directed at me I want to know I know I Know that it's about the a bird watchers, but it's okay I know what to set you off But no you I think you probably Not Christian Cooper, right? I didn't know he's been mentioned More than anyone who hasn't been on the show that we could get on the show Right, just saying can you come over I'm saying this is just a we're talking about Trump But he's not coming on the show I got a cell phone number the other day. Did you this is just what everybody does? Just drop him a text. Yeah, did you drop him text? No, I'm afraid Why I don't know it could also be a fake number. I didn't even try wait a second He actually did get his phone number. I'm just not talking about that now. Yeah What? Text him now let's go right now Let's take the texture. What do you want to ask him? Is it a warrior there? Yeah, is it a war for Israel? Yeah, he's a wow

3:09Yeah, straight there he won't even respond Yeah respond because he's answered this question repeatedly Yes, no in private that he's like sure He made the decision when he made the decision Jared's talking Made the decision when he feels it in his bones the war will be over He had said at some point that like that the Israel like sort of Talked him into it. He made some comment like that about 10 days in right on a new occasion He's named dropped Israel in ways that are weird and strange I think he said I know within your times had a long story about that yeah that like Muhammad bin Salam was like Let's go and he's like yeah, all right. I mean that is a more Corrupted relationship you've been long obsessed with hating Saudi Arabia But I just I'm always I says in the last episode But it's one of the thing that mystifies me about the Israel thing is that no one can accept the idea of parallel interests It's like it's like then they must have convinced him or you must have been so it's like everyone's gaining from this

4:10Like everyone's getting something out of the steel and the people and I'm not naming any Person in particular stop it. I who is You know a couple of people have said the great thing about Trump is You can't bully him into anything is that he's his own man He doesn't give a shit about anything about propriety. He'll just do it. And it's like except for this It's the only time I've ever heard anyone say it about I mean, can you think of another thing which somebody has said the Trump He was swayed by a lobby or a group of people. It's only this one. It's I mean this real the Joe Kent So Joe Kent resigned yesterday, right? What was his exact position enough the top of anyone's head? It was enough to be a cabinet approved position and Tulsi as we're speaking as being grilled on Capitol Hill too But he resigned and he can no longer in good conscious work when there was no even it threat from Iran and and But then he went on to say that That this the Trump that's sort of like he was influenced by he didn't use the word cabal. It was more implied

5:15But by an echo chamber of a right wing media and and somebody else that sort of manufactured like it was that He was directed about his first wife not the current wife who works for Max Blumenthal in gray zone But the first wife was killed. She's an intelligence officer in a war Manufactured by Israel Which I think it was in like the Turkish a Turkish occupied part she's she was killed in 2019 So is that incorrect that war was not manufactured by Israel? The Syrian Civil War. Yeah No I heard the Brian Lamb question. I was It wasn't it's like I I guess I'd have to try to reconstruct their argument, but when there's There I don't know what it is start with the protocols. I mean everything. Yeah, I mean you can start Yeah, the Zara's secrets police. Let's start there But I think it they tend to see everything in the Middle East as you know the hidden hand of Israel I mean they say at the bottom and I want to hear you take on this known since you're sitting here

6:16But also because you're the person that we say is it anti-Semitic? No So he says at the bottom that you know didn't want someone else to die for like he basically said the Iraq war Yeah 2003 that that the Israel convinced America to go into this the disastrous way I didn't notice that bit in his letter until this morning When I got up and was like Dooms growing through Twitter and I noticed on my Twitter trending was Something about did Israel get us into the Iraq war and I was like is there a new one? I was like oh 2003 and that was like it was Claire Laman from Kuala just saying this is ridiculous Yeah, she tweeted that all of the people that you would expect saying I have a thousand articles that Israel's responsible for it and Mitch McConnell called as a direct response said that this was he's clearly anti-Semitic do you think he's clearly anti-Semitic? Well, I mean it's it's not anti-Semitic something gets passed around so much To a people don't know any better and they just start repeating it. It's not anti-Semitic

7:19They even if that person is a cabinet about somebody who absolutely should know better Well is saying something which is obviously or which is likely untrue Then you look for other motivations, you know, I I don't like calling people anti-Semitic so easily Even to me There's anti-Semitic But um, I don't know what that means But you know, I interviewed I could for you I interviewed this guy Michael Mazar Who wrote this really extensive study of the run-up to the Iraq war And he interviewed like 150 people including people within you know this the inner circle of Bush And I questioned him and questioned him is there anything about this Narrative about Israel being responsible for the war and he's like no, no, no, no He's not Jewish. He's not pro-Israelist. I never saw anything like that every and he went through each person and what their reasons were And I I also asked him but isn't it true that Aril Sharon advised against it and he didn't know about that We had Nadav Ayel on the show and Nadav said he was on the plane

8:24With Sharon who's covering him at the time and remembered very specifically and has for a long time and was written about it That Sharon was against this and again. I mean it's it's no Like it's cold comfort to the people that here know he wanted them to invade Iran So to attack Iran and you know knock out, you know Beginnings of nuclear stuff at the time But the question I guess that I stuck on is can you Come to this conclusion just because of this fog that is out there about this stuff because it's constantly repeated as he said And think that Israel has this power and not be anti-Semitic and just think that well You know they're this tiny little country that could it's the startup nation They're responsible for those great technology ways and you know the someone some pointed out to that That it was someone complaining about you know We didn't get anything a Gulf country person in a Gulf country and they got iron dome and some is really something Well, we developed iron dome. That was our technology

9:26And they have all this stuff and they they punch way above their weight And that tends to make people think that maybe there's something else going on here Even if they're immune to Anti-Semitic conspiracy theory which for generations is the puppeteer right? That's always a thing with puppeteering of the world But if you know nothing about that or no little about that and so many of our people out there that are have big Audiences know nothing at all like really know nothing the people that you debate with on that are like in the Trump world Did they know I said this this morning in our texturing do they know anything about the six-day war? Could they say the first thing about it when they make these grand pranhasmen without is right? So I don't know I think is ignorance or defense I guess It's something came to my mind just now which is that you made this point about Trump This is the only thing that Trump's been bullied into it's kind of the same argument They're making about roms fell condolese arise bush because obviously not cheney none of these people thought they were doing it for israel Yeah, they just have a wall pulled over their eyes by war maybe wolf was

10:29Wow, maybe by wolf was but but no like who by the way is wife or a girlfriend of time I think they're still together is Palestinian so cheney was focused like a laser beam on this one percent idea There's a one percent chance and they really did believe there was WMD and israel was not what they were discussing In their private communicative private discussions. Yeah, and so yeah, there's this just this narrative that the Jews are so fucking clever You they can they can manipulate You know our world leaders are nothing compared to them Well, I do think that the point that you were making one here the question you raised is a really interesting one first I mean the fact that the United States can have interests that are aligned with other nations is not so unusual It's something we broadly recognize and lots of other contexts But the idea that there is just a kind of cultural Proclivity to interpret things in a particular way a Provasive belief now that the israel lobby is the most influential foreign lobby and in the country Which is democracy enough people just generally believed this

11:31This is widely accepted in the same way that the billionaire is a responsible for prices going up And there's price-scaliging happening anytime the gas station raises the prices these are just Things that are out there in the ether and I do wonder no because you adjudicate so much of this stuff if you have thoughts on The way that anti-semitism is being deployed as as an allegation today It definitely seems that there's been an uptick in anti-semitism It's something we've talked about a number of times on the podcast I cannot log on to x without seeing this jocant is not just some guy He's not just some former military dude not an just an intelligence official He has a relationship with Right the factions of the right who are explicitly Anti-semitic so when he says something like israel is responsible It really does have a particular kind of ring to it because of the context But I see a lot of allegations of anti-semitism and sometimes those things do have a kind of tenor to them that reminds me

12:37Of the like white supremacy stuff that was getting more popular And more commonly kind of trotted out there in like the early 2020s But I don't so much hear that anymore, but I do hear anti-semitism a lot more frequently And some of that stuff just seemed like it needs to be adjudicated a little more careful It all grew from anti-semitic seeds Right that that I'm convinced of at some point some bad ideas They reach critical mass and they just start spreading in such a way that it's very It would be it's unfair to call anybody who says them anti-semitic He just don't know anymore What what's in their head? I mean anti-semitism at root. It's an accusation against a person's character What's motivating them? I don't know enough about this guy can't to to make that accusation But the at root like where it all comes from if you rewind the tape At some point this is an anti-semitic thing. Okay, let me read something to you because this is something I saw Steve Hayes Friend of a show Editor-in-chief of the dispatch

13:38tweeted this I was unaware of this and my first thought when I hear this is that I would never have a guy like this in my orbit. It's just uh Byron Sanford who was Joe Kent's former campaign manager acknowledged text That he sent referring to Jews as quote Fucking kikes in writing hail fucking Kent in ala fucking Akbar Yeah, except the you and I have guys like that North orbit I'm You so bad this morning We're not talking about me. I swear how would I read that I'm like, you know? Yeah No, it's like when we were talking at the uh The uh The exchange from ran Paul this morning when he was talking about Mark lead with Mark ran mollum. He said I should be beaten up and I was like I said the same thing on the show And it's like but at the same time I was joking and I'm not running dhs So it's a little different, but yeah But I think some some part of this and we've talked about this as well

14:39You know where do conspiracy theories of anywhere kind of uh Especially take root is when people feel like they don't have any acts any ability to affect the way that the important decisions are made And if you feel and I think they're mistaken to feel that way that they finally had in in Donald Trump and JD Vance um a White house that was not going to do the forever wars and all that kind of stuff They really felt they were invested in that and yet here we go again not just here we go again But here it's that israel's bombing like gas production inside of of uh Iran today I mean it's bad and it's domestic stuff Um, and that is just there's a lot of uh escalation that are going for so if you're if you start from the position of like my god I can't ever really get control We finally got someone who is finally going to allow us to express that position in policy and yet he does the exact same thing Except it sort of differently you start Caughting on to theories that would explain the behavior because there has to be some

15:43Fantzful way, but there's a kind of to Camille's point. There's kind of like a lefty instinct and that's right With anti-Semitism. It's like when we see a certain You know Industry which like well, you know, it's it's all white. This is clearly a race of superstructure and that's why it exists It's what people on the rights anti-Semites on the right say about Hollywood right there's all these Jews there Obviously they've the the the fixes in it's being rigged on behalf of the Jews by the Jews Which is a mirror image of what people say about white supremacy the reason there's not certain minorities and a certain You know percentage in this industry is because it's rigged against them So I mean there's that that kind of element you seeing the right Doing something that you know the anti-Semitic right through is it doing something I mean, I'm not defending Joe Kent here I'm just saying as a guy who barely I heard his name barely knew anything about the guy until yesterday Yeah, I'm not pretty come on a podcast and say he's an anti-Semite right like he absolutely could be there's sort of substantial evidence

16:46That's just no, I just don't want to make an accusation sort of satisfied myself. I mean, that's the purpose though Isn't it that's the purpose of nobody knew who he was What have he on to this guy start the podcast and I mean he's gonna be on Tucker Carlson show today Most predictable in the world And I know you guys are probably there's such Absence of any kind of first principles discussion of why Iran is a threat. Uh-huh. I think that's exactly in terms of two things one is and I've been doing a lot of reading about this I'm not gonna read you but um Including in academia and also Kissinger talked about it the tremendous risk of accidental explosion and proliferation when a Suicidal terrorist Desperate regime gets an atom bomb the threat to the human race of having a country like Iran with an atom bomb alone What it means a game theory all the other countries having it what it means when there's like if you see Chernobyl that

17:49Yeah Like you know that was the Soviet Union the most responsible actor and Even when they knew they had this tremendous risk with the this nuclear Plant accident. They were covering up. They was remember that scene. I'm gonna get the numbers wrong We're says secretary general. Uh, it's only it's only a hundred Rengen It's like many chest X-rays the guy knew it was much worse than that and the reality was the Geiger counter would have only went to a hundred Like this is a scientist was reporting to the head of the country. No, it's nothing It only goes. It's only a hundred So imagine like what kind of fails say for the happening anyway, so that's a huge con network in Pakistan I mean you can go on and on there's there's there's a professor Sagan at at Stanford. I'm reading about him today He goes on and on about this how dangerous it will be that's number one number two is this kind of opposition creep Where we forget why it is that we look back at the Iraq war is such a mistake It was supposed to be that bush lied right meaning that if they had WM if we had found WMD

18:52If we had found a terrorist network if we had found One eighth one tenth of what we know is in Iran today nobody would be saying what we go into Iraq for We saying yes, we had to go into or maybe maybe we got down We found exactly what we maybe not I mean That was what we were talking about and arguing about in two thousand three four and five for sure But then when it goes on for 18 more years or whatever the number is then it becomes a critique of nation Bill is just like Afghanistan people Turned on Afghanistan not because they were against the original knocking out the Taliban They were in favor of that they were not in favor of being there forever I would say then it would become and it would have turned into an Opposition to the continued presence there not to the initial decision to go to war if we had found A nuclear program. Nobody would be saying we should have never done it. We should just let them have the nuclear power Yeah, he's kind of built into the premise that we were lied into war and had it been true It would have been more justifiable or just the five they'd be saying now all right

19:52You got rid of the nuclear program. I got that why are we still there? This is this is why I have always had the anti-Balton argument and it's lonely and it makes me no friends But is that who died and made us the single global nuclear anti-proliferation police? Um, I'm not sure that that that role is a great role a stable role And you can point to there's always a monster to destroy and I that you know that's a famous quote from I guess John Quincy Adams or whoever it was George Washington, George Washington, Fairwell address Um, I think it goes from something else, but anyways early guys founders beards but um like There are There There are monsters monsters isn't like hyperbole there are really really awful monsters with nuclear weapons right now and Do you can I can build a case for taking out Kim Jong-un right now and one hand wants to But like is that is that a prudent thing to do? I don't think that it is well, okay, I've been making this argument for a while that you know gain a function research

20:58Was not it turned out not to be the threat. It was the accident wasn't the use of the biological elements It was the accident the lab leak was the worst most deadly event in modern history And we're fucking with a lab leak if if we have 30 more Despots and they just Terrorists or people they're they're you know, they're crazy people with atom bombs Something terrible is gonna happen and why would we want to allow this and the particular the particular Actor matters a lot. I mean Iran has a particular contempt for the United States for Israel the fact that we would take a particular interest in checking their ability to develop that technology Makes sense and I think a perhaps under discussed dimension of this is also the security pack that they had with Russia and China And the fact that they've been talking about getting these hypersonic missiles from China The discussions were ongoing. I think relatedly there's just this broader context of The whether or not this was the right decision. We've talked about it on the so many times before

22:01I have deep concerns about the constitutional issues with the way that the war was declared The war the non or not declared or not declared for that matter I have very real concerns about the kind of political viability of the strategy Not just because the Republicans will get their clocks clean, but because Part of the problem with the Second Gulf War Wasn't so much that this is just like a bad strategy because obviously you can't cultivate democracy in that region It's that you're trying to sustain this policy over the course of multiple presidential administrations And to the extent you wanted to transform the region you had to know that that was part of the deal from the outset That was always bad math and always imprudent and impractical Here however Like if they could go in and achieve a result that looked something like Venezuela like really really quickly And knock these people back into the Stone Age really really quickly And and maybe just scramble the circuitry of the region that This is not even a this is not even a belief this is more so we're in the circumstance now And if I'm hoping for a good outcome like that is a that is a good outcome and take it a step further

23:06Both between Venezuela and Iran the the perhaps principal victory here Isn't even checking those actors necessarily It's maybe proving that the weaponry the defense tech that had been deployed in that region of the world in both places He's got war boners in the world It didn't you're a romp all guys you got I'm like making another Make sure we have that clip on Bolton must have I'm not making the case for intervention, but I am acknowledging like the complicated geopolitical context and if the United States isn't going to take an interest and stuff like that given the bad behavior of the Russians in Ukraine and various other places And the clear designs of the the Chinese with respect to Taiwan and in other areas in Asia and around the globe Really where they've been doing their belt and road stuff Then who else is going to take an interest in this and that doesn't mean that what you have to do is declare war I think there's a lot of really credible case that you could have done more tariffs and all sorts of other stuff

24:07But you know commentary podcast So you're aware probably better than I am of all the close calls we had The times that bombs fell and and three out of four the dip switches or the the Russian guy who just decided it wasn't an actual Yes, but my dad worked in defense and he told me about the death contours There's like four or five and as we had one in Hawaii Not so long ago when we thought no trick and all you have to do is imagine How many other countries in the world would you be ready to risk their reactions to those same scenarios What would Iran do if their early detection system went off Would they do what we did and say I would they have you know very sober deliberation about it or was it Let's not and you know, you multiply this risk by every two-bit nutty person in the world that has an atom bomb Why would we want to take that chance to question go ahead when Iran is now prostrate right no in the Ukraine thing is Relevant to because yeah, you were talking about was it

25:09When did we talk about david sacks the brilliant fantastic last episode? Well I can't know not that that's the different sacks. There's a lot of sacks out there. This is the tech sacks Who's been yes been pumping for the for the Russians for a long time. Yeah, but he like a number of people We're saying we couldn't do anything in Ukraine. You can debate whether this sort of you know efficacy of it the morality of it But the conversation is always it's going to bring about world war three in a nuclear exchange because They have nukes so therefore we have to back off and so what does that tell you the idea that somebody has nukes means that you are handcuffed And that is a very real issue in Iran and you know the problem is is that you know Donald Trump is so schizophrenic That he literally said yesterday. There were two weeks from getting them. They're two weeks away And this is the person who in June said we had obliterated yeah their capacity in their ability to create nuclear weapons

26:17And it's like the overriding issue here that we can't take our eye off is that the people who are prosecuting this seem to be unstable And seem to have the joke and thing is a good example of this Tulsi Gabbard's kind of deputy And you know he goes in and says it's going to resign According to reporting to JD Vance who then says don't say anything about mean about Trump in your letter And there is a let's use the word that they love a cabal of people who have a very different view of this And Donald Trump doesn't seem to have one coherent view of this. So is it effective in the long run I have no idea when it comes to the most important thing to me Which would be dislodging that that wretched government But there was the thing that was widely passed around from Al Jazeera This guy who's based in Doha to think I was just gonna ask you about that It's a really fascinating piece and it was in I somebody was asked about it on CNN the other day So it really moved around yeah, and he lays out the case for this strategy from Israel and the United States being effective

27:23But that's yeah the US strategy against Iran is working here is why And the guy is some what is his name here Muhammad saloon And one of the things about it is that There's a lot of wisdom in the piece But there's the second piece of it that he doesn't get into which is what's next? Okay, you eliminate all of these stockpiles of very sophisticated ballistic missiles You degrade the IRGC you kill these leaders who deserve to be killed And then what That's the thing that where the Iraq example is so I'm like I think I'm weirdly like between two of you guys like both physically and intellectually in this of that Yeah, I the skepticism I have about steps three and four because Donald Trump has said he doesn't care About what happens in Iran provided their client He has said something very similar or it's been leaked and Mark Rubio has Contested this in the last day and his own private personal twitter account

28:23But he said supposedly the same thing about Cuba If there's some fuguese caster that can take over we don't care Provided there are basically our client state that seems to be the post Maduro Idea of American foreign policy is the bad guys can stay in place provided they play ball of us with don't I don't think that's a long-term strategy That I'm ready to sign up for let me ask you I'll ask you question. No, and when you went the three of us not Camille because he didn't get a ticket that he liked Went to Israel I mean you got plenty of money. Yeah, let me first class. Yeah, this is junk it You want the Shvatsu wants to take it there and walk But when we were there and and it was a it was a really lovely trip and one of my favorite parts about it besides you arguing with Jesse Single every day on the fucking bus for like eight hour. Is it really in the part-time state Jesse? Yeah, and Jesse's like

29:31Eating like a monster, but um was your question to all of the Israelis which is Again and again and again what regards of who we're with we met with some High-level people in journalists and other people was like Basically, don't you realize you're losing America right now? What are you doing about that? So my question to you put that in time. It's pre October 7th It's pre October 7th. This is back when it was the judicial Fights that Netanyahu was doing um and just the ongoing you know occupation West Bank or whatever the way that that life Was in Israel that are you know, it's still ongoing Issues and problems, but um What do you think about how do you look at this war with that question? We asked the same thing in the DAV About that and he's very worried. This is a war There's no puppeteers, but two countries decided to do this war And it's a big deal and Americans don't like this war so far at the beginning of it and You know Israel like if Israel hadn't been as strenuous. We might not have been as strenuous I mean, it's not it's two people decided that they had parallel interests here on a big and kind of traumatic thing

30:38Do you worry about what that's going to do about your question that you posed to Israeli politicians? Yes, of course. I'm very worried about so at the time. I was very worried about it Wasn't even about the judicial overhaul. I remember writing a lot of emails saying you know All the liberals all the Jews are liberals and they hate the Republicans, but the Republicans are the bulwark for support for Israel And I remember saying almost you know verbatim if support Among Republicans for Israel ever gets to where it is now among Democrats We're going to see a free fall in both parties and that's what I was worried about basically what we're seeing But these were small matters that Israel was alienating America with that they didn't have to if you're asking me now given what they've accomplished Iran on its you know deathbed maybe has ball a gun Hamal everything that they accomplished in this war Would they trade that all for better PR with America now? No, they they couldn't and wouldn't yeah Could if they had done things differently

31:39Could they have accomplished all that they've accomplished and done less damage to themselves PR wise if they could have they should have I'm not convinced They actually could have maybe marginally Camille said when you see I'm just like when you see all those people dying as we saw That's just a such a powerful thing. Yeah Camille said something in the intro about for those of you out there who haven't listened or watched us podcast live from table You have a very Interesting way of doing shows that most people don't do which is the thing that I appreciate Which is not only the chief of papers that you bring but you're ready to go when you have you've done deep research and stuff But it's not what Tucker Carlson show or any of these show which is just a you know to quote Pat you can and About the israel lobby the amen choir, right? It's not just they're like we agree on all this stuff Let's talk about how dumb all these other guys are Right when October 7th happened

32:41You had Rashid Khalidian I was there with I was on that with you um Then you had Norman Finkelstein and then I think you had Finkelstein back and you kept on this correspondence with Finkelstein Until he basically told you to go fuck yourself But can you can you do a little rendition of no I cannot Um, there's the greatest thing about that story was was your producer uh periel who I love um When we were waiting for him that I would tell this one when he she said I don't know if he's gonna be here if he's gonna come I just give him a call and he said he had no cell phone Yeah, no phone and and and he then later explained that when he needs to make a call of his he'll ask somebody on the street And you just think of Finkelstein in his like Tiva sandals going excuse me I have a very important call To make the professor darshwitz And then get the phone And that That's going to be late for a podcast Yeah The shoppers What would it all right go with it He said that about Coleman yeah Maybe I don't reveal that

33:42But you have it's been out there Is he said that I probably I think it's been out there hasn't it? I don't know Maybe they called Coleman a black shoppers boys Yes, yes, yes In the Yomokas shutting off the lights Why did you start getting careful about that Volga? Well, I don't know, personally, I don't know I don't want to I don't want to make him seem like a racist But there's a long list of these people that you've had on I mean most recently um I was gonna say Tom Seggeve it wasn't Tom Seggeve Bartov? It was Omar Bartov who wrote that it was a genocide in the New York Times And he's a well-regarded historian, Israeli historian He's written about um the Holocaust Nazis and etc And one good book that I read uh read called Hitler's Army which is a very good book But you had him on and I find it very funny because when we were in Israel You we would go around in the circle He's meeting some minister or something And I would say at the time I was advised I'm like one advice and he was mad And you would look up and say I know my own a nightclub

34:43It's all to be absolute incredulity of things like But you're the guy who was a nightclub He uploaded for bear against Against Bartov And I thought that was masterful and you did a great job of kind of dismantling him But Beyond the praise of you for that which you deserve Is Through talking to all of these people who are at the outset Diometrically opposed to you in your opinions on these matters What have you taken away from that? Has there anyone been moved you in a particular direction? You said, you know what? Because I know you I know you well and I know you're open to persuasion Yeah, of course And you're not somebody who's like firmly on one side You end up on one side It's everyone does But you can be moved Did any of those things ever move you? No Maybe something will come to me No, as a matter of fact What I've come away from like really macro on a lot of this stuff

35:44Is and this is going to sound bad in a way Is that like the people I know who I agree with Like you You guys Coleman the various people that we know You're you're clearly not like nutty and crazy You're clearly you know Open to Arguments in the other side we'll discuss it privately And there's just so much nuttiness On the other side of the argument extreme nuttiness And the fact I mean can I talk about Megan Kelly? Yeah, like like The fact that I mean this has to be this is crushing to me It has to be for you guys The fact that she's there with Candace Owlens And Tucker Carlson and his demons And underwater You have falls and Alex Jones is a divine prophet And the fact that they can all gather together And be comfortable with each other And that makes up like That's the intellectual gold standard of the anti-Israel position Right is these fucking nuts

36:44Who will take in any other nut As long as they say the right thing But is that the intellectual gold standard of the anti-Israel position Like is it I mean you've done the Lord's work I think really since October 7th Specifically in engaging with people And including on Twitter and in long exchanges And it is it's terrific And like I think it's an it's an ideal That I would never even think about aspiring to Because I would just get too furious With people I find it the odd I mean keeping in mind just to interject Sorry that martyr made Darryl Cooper Scott Horton Yeah Dave Smith All these people have been on your show And you've engaged with them Which is great Great one was post-con But I mean I think it was time So yeah I mean who then who is the intellectual Well I don't know I just I wonder if In pop culture they are If in If in Following the people who have big followings And some of whom are saying Like really kind of on the edge Or over the edge types of Collectively denunciatory statements That don't have a lot of basis

37:45In fact while also getting into a lot of Kind of social media troll type wars Do you run the risk of like You're a dog chasing a squirrel over there Because it's putting up a ruckus When there's actually you know Mier Shimer and Walter Actually doing more serious work I'm throwing their names out there I don't really Rubberpap on me But Mier Shimer is a good example Mier Shimer who says that Israel That Hamas actually didn't kill all those people on October 7th That that Israel is blackmailing Trump Into his pro like this He said that Yeah This is John Mier Shimer No I know I'm not holding on with the standard at all Just like Imagine Michael Like you know I think that this leader is blackmailing this person I was like Michael where do you get that No I just I just have a I have a I would hope that you would stop in front of me But he would never Like it It's so not something he would Why do you think it happens in the sense that Joe Kent thing you can make a pretty You know just reasonable guess That he's going to go on Tucker Carlson show And he does and he's doing that today That he will No one had heard of him And now he's going to have this profile Now he's in newspapers

38:45And on cable tv And people are talking about this And now he is almost instantly A person in that orbit And can do a podcast And probably he's done some big podcasts before He has done it before But the name recognition is Should be much higher now And people that I think Change their I mean his opinions People came out with with with with Kent And finding all of these things Fairly recently of him saying Arana Arana is a threat Yeah And Arana's nuclear Capabilities have to be taken out And taken out or just said there are three I think there are three Maybe he just maybe hit me Yeah that's a good distinction But it's something that I don't think he would say Now and I wonder How people can have such Big intellectual changes When they're in government In huge positions Pizzons of incredible influence In such short periods of time How did you not Kind of come to these conclusions Earlier was there something Internally in the White House That you saw Or is this just

39:46It's possible Or is this just a Kind of political move Or a Move to make more money And get a bigger kind of Meershymer was a dry academic And there was a point at which He became a big name And people I think the same thing is happening I you know I was No, I was saying that you don't You don't really protect people's Anatomy I'm not going to do that right now I was talking to Peter Meyer about this Our friend and former congressman Was that the hair salon about We were getting our hair We're getting blowouts We're getting we call them a Michigan blowout He looks like a fucking lion That's great Did his head that you just peered No, it's good We're starting a metal band together But we were talking about this with paper Because Peter knows this stuff Very well Served in a rock And he's and he said something to me A bad paper And like this guy Who is a nobody Not a nobody But in academia Everybody knew him for a book

40:47Called dying to win I went to Libya With Robert Pipe In another journalist And now he's everywhere And I see this stuff on Twitter And I'm like Oh yeah, he is And this was Peter's point And I want to reveal him Because I want to give him credit Because it's a smart point He's like he's mirror-shimering This guy who was like A sort of nobody academic Nobody in the bigger sense Is now all of a sudden On Twitter all the time He hadn't been on Twitter for years And now he's tweeting all this stuff And he sounds like He's a big market for this stuff And people are racing towards it And I think the danger in a way Are those people that did have academic credentials That are like Oh, well, this is the guy from University of Chicago And I think both Mirror-shimering paper at University of Chicago were And that kind of thing The incentives of this are really bad You know, it's disillusioning And you probably had the same thought So when Pipe was all in about This war was only helping Hamas Hamas is winning I remember thinking at the time Wow, why are you going all in like that Like what if it doesn't turn out that way

41:48You don't know how it's going to turn out You're going to look foolish No, you don't look foolish He doesn't even care as that he went all in He's lost no credibility And now he's going even further all in Saying, Iran is winning The eye, which is remarkable And so the instinct is Well, yeah, but if this regime falls You're going to look like a fool And you're going to be discredited No I mean, he's tweeting fake AI videos Of comedians Which was actually On Net Yahu Speaking Hebrew In a coffee shop, he's like You know, I am at the coffee shop And Teran is like To run that Are you the fuck is it? I have a kind of friendship with Robert Pape Of a proposition Of course you do So, you know, as you know, I I want to take that What do you take all of your friends, I know Because I know I'm You know Vellies, we have in our very long history Almost 10 years now Never done a formal sponsorship with anyone No And I would not even say that this is us Kind of go incorporate and tell that Because in truth, this particular

42:50Merchant of services Is someone who I've mentioned many times Positively, who A product that I've used and enjoyed in many respects So I am very pleased to be able to talk about ground news Ground news is a great application For sifting through the news cycle Keeping your finger on the pulse of what's happening in the world And just generally understanding the media landscape And there are many great features on ground news Which I'm sure we can talk about it length I just want to talk about one Briefly and it is the blind spot feature Which is incredibly valuable I love the blind spot tab Because it helps me Realize not only the stuff that I have Potentially overlooked But the stuff that other people are overlooking So blind spot from the left Criminal will pay for his blood Wow, it's Chameleon Chameleon on killing of Iran's security chief And that is something that is kind of For the left, it is a blind spot So it codes right But then there's another story Japan's leader heads to Washington for visit Complicated by the Iran War And you can imagine that this is a story

43:52That might be ignored by people on the right Both of these are worthwhile stories To pay some attention to But it is the sort of thing that you might lift Miss if you are kind of stuck In a particular bubble In terms of your kind of political readers You might not know if you're in the bubble Yeah, I think that's right Your normal consumption habits might have You knowing that this thing is happening And that thing is not happening The way that you use this for fifth column Listeners and viewers Is you go to groundnews.com Slash fifth Why Michael do they go? Well, does it get 40% on? 40% on limited access vantage plan Factage What is 40% off And you get the unlimited plan What do you want the limited plan? No, this has been never No, we can do the unlimited plan The Neverfly Coach of this Neverfly Coach And as Camille said We've never done an ad And we're doing this now Because this is actually a product That all three of us use And it's not the pills And all that you can just record I downloaded the app I just thought you had a call your daughter For the first time on your phone Now you're actually using it Because of groundnews And you guys should be too

44:53And that is groundnews.com Slash fifth And you get 40% off The unlimited access A vantage plan There's a bunch of stuff that I want to That I want to double click on here I mean first like Kent and I are about the same age I think he's 45 And like In the past couple years I've certainly had my baggage shift On a couple of things And certainly on like foreign policy stuff My baggage has shifted And I'm not a war hawk I'm not a neocon I think I have a realistic perspective On the appropriateness Of sometimes projecting power abroad But more specifically What I have in openness to Is a nuanced thoughtful argument On the other side of an issue That might be in opposition to mine I was not desperate to see an In an incursion into Iran I don't have whether it be But it looks on the grounds or not Excursions are fun We're having a big association We go to extursions Trump's fucking a technical basket We got an excursion to Iran

45:54But once one happens To evaluate it seriously To think about the best possible objectives Even if the administration Cannot to save their lives Articulate those things In a sensible and coherent way I can imagine them That piece in Al Jazeera But it's interesting It's interesting To think about the aspects Of this conflict that are going well So to speak From a Western perspective From the perspective of someone Who wants to see Iran checked And contained In the long run Is it the best possible goal I don't know I'm skeptical And I have profound doubts about that But I can change my mind about that At 45 And we do this stuff I'm not in government But we read about this regularly I had a I thought a Well-informed perspective Before And a perspective can become more Better informed And perhaps more nuanced And more And for me I think there's actually just more More humility in my perspective Like it's a more modest Perspective It is not a conclusion

46:55That precedes all evidence And asserts with confidence A kind of fundamentalist value That interventions abroad Are categorically well-informed It's used to be To do something Can I ask you a question? I suppose it does Because it's like What would you call it? It's like justification Cre... like Sure No, like Things are smuggled in And we don't really question them Like when people say Iran is not an imminent threat As if imminent threat Is the standard for war The question I would ask you is And yet is I said it before Is it okay for Iran to get nuclear weapons If you decide it's not okay Then you say We're never going to have a chance like this again If we wait until it's imminent Who knows I don't know what that will be I think that is true in this argument But you think it's okay I don't think it's okay It's terrible Yeah, I think it's wrong No, it's a terrible place I mean that you don't think it's terrible I mean like you think We should do something to prevent We should allow that to happen I don't think that's the choice Of we should allow it to happen

47:56I think that you can apply pressure The short of dropping a lot of bombs in the country But if you know that Iran might get hypersonic missiles from China Like in the next year or so And they have this demonstrated interest In trying to develop nuclear weapons Do they perhaps It's the you know part It's the we know part We do know about the we know But we do know those things They know that they were trying to I mean I pardon themselves as a target This short to do these other bad There's going to be arms races If you are Decapitating regimes Yeah, that's true And also if you Yes Proven both in Libya and Ukraine That if you get rid of If you're nuclear weapons You're in trouble You're in even more trouble Yeah, so of course people are going to see you The knock-on effects are real And I respect all of that I'm just saying that You can change your mind You can become nuanced But there's one other thing I wanted to double click on And it was The characterization of Like Candace, Tucker, Megan, Camille Camille the people I think you mentioned I think you mentioned Alex Jones beneath that There's a couple of things One, I would draw some distinctions Around some of those characters

48:58Two There's something about The way that someone like Dave Smith Has gained more prominence Than he had before Talking about these issues And the fact that a lot of As we were saying earlier A lot of people at this point Just buy those arguments They are bought in And in many instances It means that they go Intertain other More even Out there conspiracy theories as well I wonder about The charges of anti-semitism About the Kind of categorical dismissal Of people as like Cooke's The reality is that If we don't confront These bad arguments And confront them In this sort of detailed way That you do Things tend to Perhaps get out of hand And it feels like That's where we are now And I don't know if we really Ressled with that enough The fact that People were making these bad arguments For a very long time And in many instances Would be just kind of ignored Because well Nobody's paying any attention to them

49:58Well they are now I want to be clear I wasn't calling Matt and Anti-Semite No, I'm not Cormulant I do that's fine But um I just just To Answer what you said Think it back to you Is um Do you agree that Once That's No because Because I I hear what you're saying But pressure Diplomacy Whatever Once Israel Whenever it was The first time Bomb the Iran Your Your half go Whenever it was It seemed to me At that point We all understood Well if Iran has a chance now They're going to Realize they have to have new Nothing is going to stop now The best argument for this war To me is that It's that um It's the opportunity The opportunity is now There's been a degrading This has been a malevolent country It's been threatening everybody In the region A bad actor Doing bad things To America even beyond Just the Americans are everywhere And so you're going to eventually do that A little bit Consider a little more wicked Then just that Argument it's a low cost But not just the opportunity But the fact that if Five years ago we could

50:59Maybe toy with the idea Well, we're not sure if Iran Is really decided on having nuclear weapons Once Iran was humiliated There is no way they didn't decide If we have a chance again This is never going to happen to us again And we know if we had an bomb They would have never dared So the first chance we get We're getting at it I just see I can see the intervention spiral Happening with that logic Sometimes you have to intervene Okay, but also I've heard that logic a lot And that logic was used to intervene in Libya Which I think was a mistake It was used to intervene in Iraq Which I think was a mistake We can talk ourselves into war really easily Because it's the world's greatest Do something about it It's a very small sample size Of historical scenarios And they're all different in their own way And to decide Based, you know, at any given time in history You could decide a decision That turned out well Based on a previous time It didn't turn out well I don't know But yeah, I don't need to be clear I don't either It's a chance I think airing on the side of reticence Is there's wisdom in that Among other reasons

51:59Because what kind If you're taking full responsibility For the world at all times At a time when your own public Doesn't want you to Right Which is that's a bad dislocation And it's going to lead to a lot of Irratic behavior And what is Trump If not really doing a lot of Irratic behavior As president Then I think that That prevents other people From taking responsibility for their actions Yeah The couple of things about this I mean, historically It's hard Obviously the way that the Cold War I mean, people During the Cold War There was an enormous segment Of the liberal left And some parts of the kind of mainstream democratic party That even disagreed with the idea Of confronting the Soviet Union In a containment way We didn't take the option In 1956 and Hungary We didn't take the option in 1968 We didn't participate in the Suez crisis In 1956 The same thing true there We You know Pulled out after the debacle of Bay of Pigs

52:59To just actively supporting You know Cuban resistance in some ways But not in an armed way But we did intervene in Nicaragua We did intervene in Grenada The entire thing was pushing But the one of the overarching things Was that the Soviets were rational There was a rational basis For what they were doing And there was a rational response To us pushing back There does It does change the calculation a lot When actors seem irrational When you're waiting for a hidden a mom When there is glory in death When the drones that you were producing For the Russians Are called, you know, Shaheed drones It's a bit martyrdom This kind of stuff Should change the calculation of how How you So I agree it's always Sort of different But as far as like just in one thing What you mentioned before Is there two things about the cookery There is a natural change That people I'll give you an example of a natural change I think that our friend I know that I've been friends with him

54:01Is Saurab Saurab and Mari Who is Iranian-American Was a hardcore neocon And is the exact opposite now Yet another in a long list of people Who work with John Putt-Harritz Yeah Yeah Exactly Go ahead and say you know what That's how you try to land it Carrelation is not a causation But that kind of like I think Saurab Had a pretty honest intellectual journey I don't doubt Saurab's motivations on this In one of the reasons I say that As he did an interview Because he's like the America editor For unheard The British publication And an interview about Iran With their overall editor in chief And um It was like not It was not Joe Kent I mean he has a deep sympathy And he always wanted Military action in the past To free their Iranian people Etc I think those kinds of journeys are normal And if you don't change your mind over time I've changed my mind Some of things

55:01I do think there's opportunistic stuff Which is pretty easy to test for Like very easy to test for I mean you look at guys I used to criticize guys like Larry Cuglow And Stephen Moore These guys who are non-economists That play economists on TV And they talk to endlessly about free markets And free trade They got jobs in the Trump administration And they have the exact Tariffs are great Tariffs are great They're going to live I interviewed Art Laffer about this In 2016 He's like wow you know Terrifying He's like he can be a good tool And it's like yeah but that's not the question So I think there's so much opportunism And politics Sure That it depresses me But I think the thing that Probably is true For everyone at this table Is that you would stop going on shows And you would stop interacting with people At a certain point Everybody has a different line But we have lines right It's like when you're doing something I'm chemtrails When you're talking about you know January 6 was an inside job

56:02Like there are a lot of people I know And you know I think maybe us included That have understood that the 2020 election conspiracies Are something that people do Because they that was literally the litmus test When you were being interviewed For this second administration Was the election stolen They're like yes it was stolen I want a job Like I get the people do stuff like that But when you are indulging stuff That is easily Almost instantly falsifiable That is just not true That no one ever made the claim I mean probably people here and there But you know we were texting about Mark Lane The dean of all Kennedy conspiracy theorists And all of these people all over stone Had 90 days of CIA it was LBJ No one ever talked about Israel That was the oh look Because they wanted APEC The precursor to APEC to register as a foreign agent So therefore they pulled off this enormous Assassination of the century The fact that people who were once serious

57:04And people that were once friends of mine Believe that stuff and entertain it And don't laugh it off the show And say you are bringing the intellectual level of the show down Into the basement for what For clicks for clips online that get you know 20 million views Because you are giving things to dumb people It's like people with addiction saying you know You should guys you gotta start gambling It's like this is this is stuff that you just at You know you shouldn't do if you were in this world And that I think is the red line You should have that red line And once people start engaging in that sort of stuff All of a sudden everyone became a 9-11 truth Yeah that was like in a week Yeah I mean was it Michael Schellenberger? Was it he was one of those 9-11 truth Like oh that's this stuff is Basic it's as I was saying in the last episode It's the X-ray machine for stupidity Or I don't think Michael Schellenberger is a stupid guy No I think he was on the other side of like the Epstein argument When he was talking to Rogan the other day Yeah I mean like in maybe in he by the way

58:05Said in that and I just thought clip a bit That he was expecting a conspiracy and didn't find one So therefore he changed his mind So yes but then you talk about 9-11 as an inside job But doesn't that suggest since I mean I don't know No it's not that sensitive You have to be consistent about these things You can be consistently smart and be snowed But it's the rare thing as you said And I've said this a million times in the show Nobody ever believes just one conspiracy there It's a mindset right Nobody says the moon landing was fake Nine lives inside job because they're insane It's no it's that mindset But when you see people descending into that For whatever reason If it is the reason of getting more clicks And getting more money and getting more ad dollars I don't give a shit So if you believe it I don't give a shit You're saying it I have two things I want to say First of all is that people lump to You don't mean to do this They lump to get like politicians being hypocrites With like intellectuals being hypocrites And I know we all believe that Okay but intellectuals take an oath to the truth

59:06Politicians oath is very fuzzy It basically is to get elected right Yeah and once they get power Maybe to do things who go to basically And it's part of the deal Although they take an actual oath The commentators and stuff don't actually take it So when I hear a politician speaking When I hear politicians speaking out of both sides of his mouth I don't like it Yeah but I said grow up No When I hear somebody like you know Sarvamari who I think is a hack by the way And I had a whole thing with him But I say yeah but you know But you know the honest hack But well I had to think with him Because he published a thing about Ilhan Omar Where he was totally misquoted And I sent him the videos And she didn't say that She actually meant the opposite And he and I had an email exchange up until that moment And then at that moment I never heard from him again And he should have retracted He should have corrected How many ongoing email exchanges This is how many years ago this is right now But I mean You've got a few moments You've got an email exchange So as far as Not zero As far as the cookery goes

1:00:07I think a lot of these people are mentally ill And I'm going to find mental illness in this way In the same way we all observe That people have very thin slices of intelligence Like very very thin Like oh my god that's actually a very finite talent That this person has And it's clearly above and beyond other people They don't seem that smart in other ways I think people's mental picture can also be Like these people have a thin slice Of a huge defect in their mental health And Tucker Carlson And a lot of these people And this is what we saw heartbreaking about Megan Is because I don't think any of us Think she actually has that slice It's a matter of fact I think it's just opposite Of Megan's kind of turn But Sheldonberger must have Tucker and you know Aligning herself with Tucker And saying I wouldn't pronounce him and everything You and we on this show too Said and you said publicly I don't believe she said that I say mine I don't think she has any symmetric bone on her body I mean you said that And I don't

1:01:07I still have no evidence Of that from her But you've engaged her quite a bit In in in the time since Right Thank you for they've all seen that Mike No I'm just saying You tweet you're tweeting at her He's totally insane When he doesn't see it You just revealed that it was private He's kind of retweeted He's saying He's like showing up at her house No I don't think she's an anti-submitted girl I don't think she's an anti-submitted girl Although I do think that she's I had tweeted about this That when people want to think Well of themselves And when they do something wrong They begin to rationalize Why the person you're doing it to Deserved it all along And I think this is Sucking her into a dark place Where she's retweeting Stuffed by known anti-submits And she ought to know better I don't believe I just can't I can't imagine that she isn't I can't picture her that I mean I think part of the choice Architecture here about all of this Like you know what's a red line what's not

1:02:08When you see someone And this is sort of a blanket thing Who definitely knows better And then is start the suddenly embracing Other people who have the long career track records Of being Cooke's of being Of being just never having any kind of Fidelity to the truth Of being Controversial in the things But suddenly you are now on their team And you're And you're talking about them And when you're sharing information From people who are known to be really bad At the information game That's when I'm just going to step off your Your train because we're not engaged In the same project anymore That's just it like I don't I don't know about an oath But I like the idea That we're like we're trying to arrive at stuff Honestly and talk about disagreements Honestly too No I absolutely know what you're talking about I mean like you know I write a lot And I you know the idea of getting a thing wrong I wrote a I know that it's It's a bit about Brian Doherty And I said he was born in Brooklyn He was born in Queens And I want to fucking jump off off off off off off off off

1:03:11It sucks Right And I know I'd say stuff This is an oral medium And we all And we're having fun too But we're also like trying To say things that are True And accurate And when you see people Who have worked in this industry or in this vocation Who are You can see they're standards slipping They're vituperation growing And they're affinity and affiliations with people Their standards just going straight to the toilet That is a scientific I say those in the same manner I'm not a sympathy too But I think that people who Look at what we do And look at journalism general Believe or just intellectual combat Believe that it all comes From a place Of looking at the facts Adjudicating the facts And people come to different conclusions But what they never account for Is there so much personal stuff Of course There's so much And you know We're talking about Megan And I You know We're done to her show anymore I'm not bad

1:04:11Maths her I'm not bad Mathing her now But it's in her case She's been very open about The fact that when people Tell her to say something She will do everything to not Say that thing And it might drag her to places that I don't like Okay, we disagree But that is not an intellectual rationalization That's a personal position that somebody has And they can have that and hold it very firmly And that will kind of color The way that they look at particular issues And I think that most people Take this 30,000 foot view Who are engaging the stuff By just driving in their car And listening to the show or something like that And assume that people are dealing With this only on a factual level And they're just absolutely not And I'm keeping myself as part of that too I mean, I will never And I say on a show all the time I will always hate Sam Altman Because I had a horrible entrepreneur We know It's personal And I'm like that guy was a fucking prick And I don't trust him anymore But I try to be upfront about it Like this is why I hate him so much But there's so much more to it

1:05:12Than just like we're looking at these facts If that were the case These conversations would be Very, very easy The people that you point this out I'll give one example of this And I won't name any names But I know you had an interaction with somebody And as you often do invited them Down to have a have a drink And this is a person who was a young person And you said I mean, Christian Cooper isn't that young You will If we're wrong Younger than no And said, you know Look You gotta get things right And you're getting things wrong And you're a young guy And it was just not penetrating And the action is admirable The result is frustrating And that's why Matt says How many open email Because you're constantly emailing people From your perspective Which is an honest one that says If you get it wrong I presume that you're gonna want to fix this How many what percentage of time do people want to fix it Never Almost never They don't want to fix it

1:06:13And I think Coleman Hughes Yeah He's the one person I know He's like, oh, shit I better Yeah, yeah Cause you're gonna backhand him Yeah, he's the top of his son Like, come in Yeah Coleman Comes down Fired from the band But Coleman, Coleman's an interesting example of a guy I mean, you mentioned Dave Smith There was a Like, he did a Kind of now Amongst a certain Small Coder of people That was kind of a famous episode of a show Where Dave Smith came on He said, you know, give me your best arguments sort of thing And I was about to put it on And I was like Three fucking hours Yeah I can't do this And then at three hour three I was like You got more to go Give me another argument Cause he did such a calm Job of going after every argument Because there are people who become like David Sachs As I said the other day I had never tweeted about Ukraine And became a Ukraine expert overnight All these people now are on experts They're Ukraine experts They're gonna be then as well experts They'll be Cuba experts You know, in two weeks And they learn a script They're like actors They have all the stuff that You know I'm not, you know I'm not going into the role

1:07:14Like Robert De Niro I'm inhabiting the character And I'm gonna anticipate what that person would say They have the scripts They have the The usual points that I make And Coleman in that episode I thought was so good Because he's somebody who's done Very, very deep dives Over a long period of time And just New the scripts Very easy to know what these people are gonna say Because it's like watching fight tape You understand It's like that Superman movie Where like Luther knew all the All Superman's movies Yeah, yeah exactly 99, 97 Exactly, exactly And that is exactly right And it was like, you can You can Dog was good Come back at this stuff That, you know, with arguments That are a little more contextualized And nuanced Because people know a script And that's the problem that I have It takes a lot of time That's like a lot of time And before it ends I want to bring something else to you guys I got one thing before we get on with this But, you know, it used to be the Like, it went from like, I don't know Who like Like Robert Wright David Rothkoff All the way to like Glenn Greenwald And Norman Finkelstein Right And then it blew

1:08:16And these were kind of like All people dealing in facts Sort of, like for the most part I mean, including Glenn Greenwald And it blew past them To Ian Carroll Yeah Mm-hmm And Norman Finkelstein to his credit Has expressed some Uncomfortableness With this Ian Carroll It's because you're in love with Norman Finkelstein We've established that for a long time Well, I do, and you know If you're in Norman Finkelstein book And you'll check his footnotes They're very thorough He might leave some stuff out But what he says in the text Is actually backed up in the footnote Which reads like, Caledie They're on Basically, the footnotes are just bullshit Right So I respect that But that How like How do these people live with themselves Like Greenwald And I'll leave Finkelstein out Now that they can go Like, they hang out with their friends And who's coming to the party tonight Oh, Carroll's Ian Carroll's gonna be their Alex Jones Tucker Carlson That's their new crew I think the way people get there Is That They have lived on the ideological margins

1:09:18And so they can have aggressive toleration For Errant and Potentially ugly viewpoints Because Like with Greenwald Who I Now on Substack We've had on the show And I've been friendly with him For a long time And also we fight a lot too But um He's been nice to me too He is so obsessed With the Kind of what he Would portray as the Omerta Of like you can't say anything bad about Israel And bad things are going to happen to you And you're going to be Uh Branded an anti-Sema And you're going to have your free speech Taking away That That leads And I've seen some of the libertarians Who are brand new ideas to do This is well too The label brand new ideas to work for reason Like Because you are on the margins And because you are Actually genuinely pro free speech And you have some out there opinions Other people who have out there opinions You don't want them to be silenced Of for those opinions Or for other like ugly Seeming opinions that you might have Like there's a

1:10:19Like an aggressive toleration That can that can be behind that And that I find on some level Noble But on some other level I think that they're turning a blind eye to Like oh that's a bad ally Because they agree with you That's not enough Like they're actually not being Right so is it the ACLU When they were defending the Nazis in Skoky Refused to say a bad word about the Nazis Right Yeah I don't think that's... I think you're right but I think it's very unwise But that's actually That is perhaps the perfect example Of like my own approach to most of these things I want to be In a position to disagree forcefully with you And still have a conversation with you In particular And whether or not it's fair Like I'm going to give you a little bit more rope If you happen to be particularly influential And if you have access to say the corridors of power For example And I mean it's funny because we really haven't Talked about it publicly But like Megan has come up a few times Like I'm still willing to have conversations with Megan In public I would talk to Dave Smith In public And I'd talk to Dave Smith

1:11:20privately in every single conversation we've ever had in private Has generally been like Cool and fine I haven't talked to him in a couple years But I would He's a nice guy And you know with like Megan I'm supposed to do her show Like soon I've been talking to her producers about it Maybe that will or won't happen But there's a willingness on my part To have a conversation With prominent person With whom I have Meaningful disagreements And always have What is she going to do? Ground rules Don't ask me about this Don't ask me about that That wouldn't really be acceptable to me But I don't know She's never done that before So until that day comes Until that happens Then I'm willing to do it But I will say Just again Lated to this conversation And what you were just saying Matt There is a particular kind of sensitivity around these issues That does remind me Of the kind of excesses That we've seen on the left With respect to quote unquote Wokeness And the reality is that even my saying What I just said

1:12:21Like I've said it on On social media for example And have literally gotten back Stuffed allegations of like anti-Semitism Directed at me For having a willingness to talk to someone People on Twitter Which in Yes Occasionally But it's not hard to imagine And it's certainly not something that I haven't seen Where there is a kind of lurch To the assailing of motivations And even the sort of speculation About people's like internal worlds And they're their particular The particular way that they reach Certain moral conclusions And I think you used the phrase a moment ago Like how can you sleep at night Well, I suspect it's because They approach the thing from a different direction And the ideal thing to do In most circumstances If there's an opportunity To air out the grievance To expose the actual terrain Of the disagreement That can be beneficial for a universe of people And my instinct is That it is almost certainly the case That when I have a conversation

1:13:21In public with someone I disagree with The likelihood that I might appeal To some small percentage And maybe a huge percentage of their audience And prevail in the argument It's not it's not zero One small thing about this Is that there's You know the reason I Praise No, I'm sure it's not just because we're friends Because I think it's The ideal of how to do I think that's true to the way The venue matters a whole lot The venue matters The person that your interlocutor matters Because I think there are certain people that I have no interest In that kind of debate I'm not saying anyone in particular But it's just I see as a cross I mean I can't I mean you The people who have disagreed In this mega thing which I haven't paid attention to I just don't One of the reasons that I'm You know Mostly I'm going to say I just have no interest In the kind of real housewives Of of Twitter And real housewives of conservative politics But those people who disagreed Now don't talk to each other And say you got a small dick

1:14:21And you got this And you're a harlequin Ben Shapiro And this and it's like That's not debate It's not people going In the thing that I respect About Finkelstein Which is Not a phrase you hear out of my mouth often Is that he will come and sit down with you And have an argument with you And have a debate with you And come back and keep doing it And that is Maybe that's something about You know his background I mean he's like a 68er An old Maoist He's in academia for a long time And you know he's also been attacked By people on the left To be a whole book about it It was I'll burn that bridge when I come to it So he has no kind of political Home in a lot of ways And I think that Makes people a little more Willing I mean greenwald You know Is similar in the sense he'll come on your show And you can have a debate And it's not going to be a Peer's Morgan Shetfest And no one's going to be talking about penis size I hope I don't know You never know A gay friend of ours Yeah Assures me That Mark Levin has a bit dick Wow By the way

1:15:21Wow That does Have a looking news But I want to say that that answers one question And really raises a couple of other more In my question I think you probably need one guess But yeah Lay before we let you go And this is But I have something on my Oh yeah You're not supposed to know This is it So I This is my mind I think he was leaving He's folding up his feet No This is one of mine for a couple of years And in my own self-agrand Do you have like thoughts when you're driving That are just like so dumb Like In my own self-agrandizing thoughts I didn't want to bring it up Ever on my podcast Because I didn't want to be the one responsible But anyway But I want But since you have a Tesla You know Full self-driving Which has become Very very good Very very quickly It's kind of like Nuclear enrichment And it takes forever to get to 60% And it's really got to 90% of it I will blow up all your tests Fraptively It's just contempt and hatred It speeds It speeds all the time

1:16:21You can tell it how much to speed And it would be perfectly natural And expected that if you were going to develop a technology That the law would require you To limit this technology To the law If you're going to want you to finish this It should It should not speed And yet Despite all the people who hate Elon Musk And all the people hate cars No bright politician has Brought up the fact Hey Musk Your full self-driving Should not be allowed to speed Now of course If they were to do that That's the end of full self-driving Because nobody wants to fucking go 15 miles an hour This is the Bill Blaze Jowski Of policy ideas Like Memo tour Yeah, he's so poor But I find it's fascinating It's just fascinating That it's been years And no one has brought up the fact That it's completely vulnerable Who wants to be out there defending the fact No, no, I'm against this legislation Full self-driving All to be able to go Correct 90 miles an hour And 55 mile an hour zone I just want you to know We're going to cut all of this out of the contest That's how we keep this

1:17:22It's fascinating Just say you know There was this conversation On Twitter Do you remember this we talked about in the show Where like it was like Bataglacist These people about speed limits And it was like And people are driving cams And I was like And I was like I can respond to this by saying I speed through all these Like yeah, you can't really It's a hard thing to defend I bring a lot And I'm fine That's really not Not But I wanted to ask you about something That um That's it Nobody Nobody finds this Okay, it's okay No I mean That's why you have In the car Yeah, that's not in the car It stays in the car Don't talk about it in the car That's going to be a new segment Called keep it in the car Actually afraid this could get out And I can be the cause of it Yeah, I don't want you to So that you know Most of us And Donnie's been talking about Lowering the speed limits Like 15 miles an hour And like a cash grab What are you doing now Yeah, don't give these Fucking guys any ideas Yeah, cut cut They don't have ideas No, the thing that every That you've talked about A million times And

1:18:22Is ground news Oh, yeah I haven't talked about it With you in a very long time But It's probably the thing That people knew you for All the sudden They didn't know the guy who On the comedy club Maybe a little bit here and there But it was when you came out Defended Louis And that was a big moment And he he clears this throat There was a Two episode Edition of the Daily Which you were very angry about And I still don't remember Why so maybe you can remind me of that But just talk about that A little bit because you became Somebody that was a bit Of a free speech champion Which one would presume Because you're on a comedy club But you were outward facing And that was Kind of a Dangerous thing for the club At the time To come out and defend Defend Louis Well it We didn't know whether it was a Dangerous thing for the club at the time Looking back on it now I don't think it was nearly as dangerous

1:19:23As I worried that it was Maybe if I put my foot in my mouth Like a lot of people did It would be more dangerous But you know Business wasn't affected at all Again at the time I really didn't know what I was getting into And I think I told this story It's one of the best things about my wife ever Is that when it looked really bad We had protesters in front of the club And every dumb You actually had protesters in front of that And like the Huffington Post And everybody's writing articles Slate I said to my wife I said What if you know What if this upends us What if we have to move back above the store What if Business takes a huge hitch And she did not miss it But she says I've had less before Wow I've had less before That's it She's done to you know She's done to you know She's done to you know She's done to you know She's done to you know Yeah Because she loves you No no no This was the exact same time She was texting me And you know Under so much pressure at the time That was your answer Under so much pressure at the time To have a woman stand by you Like that Like if I had the same time I had to deal with this While she was carving you Yeah you know what you're doing it

1:20:24That would have just been unbearable But um Uh The yeah I mean I'd always had this attitude When I went to law school Everybody had this attitude It's a matter of fact just a little aside When I went to law school If you had given on a law school uh Test A hypothetical that That was exactly the same As uh Derek Chauvin And George Floyd With the manual And the jury and all that One hundred percent that law school class Would have said the conviction Should have been overturned Just this was A different time And I just carried that same sensibility Towards Louis Like why in the world would I Throw this guy out Who is accused of Accused of something Twelve years ago And the other side of the country Not not a workplace thing It's like I just couldn't do it But at the same time You did Respond Because when he I mean for those of Listeners who don't know The seller is that you have a schedule You have people on the schedule But you have people that drop in

1:21:24And that's the excitement of the seller That is probably number one thing I hear from people is If I go maybe Dave Chappelle will show Maybe one of these big comedians Will show up Because you're testing out material And they do all the time And they do all the time And I've seen some Insane comedians All the time Only one One seven Yeah You know I've seen comedians there That do 20,000 Cedarinos Yeah That is walking But Louis Kind of inched back into Doing Mark Levin inched back into Louis kind of Dips his toe Is that bad too Into the water And comes and does a set Wow And then Somebody Freaks out And loses it And You respond to that by Instincting a new policy Which I don't know if your wife would agree with this one When I read it I was like What are you doing Just tell them to go fuck off You say they get their money back They can walk They can just get And you'll cop Their drinks in their food

1:22:25He's had that policy forever as far as I know Right No, the school mitral and risk Then that was a response to Louis Oh, it was a response to Louis Okay Yeah, because it was the one argument So just So when Louis got in trouble I knew this was coming And I had actually written an essay Like I was really gathered My thoughts I said, No, I'm going to have to face this What are you going to do Like I had really gathered my thoughts I contacted my friend Who's a union side Labor lawyer You might meet If you might meet him next month He's still my friend And I asked him like Well, how would the what would the union attitude Be about somebody who was in Get fired for something like this He's like No, the union would never allow for anything like this Union would want a hearing And you know Cross examination I was gathering all my thoughts I spoke to The council for the ACLU I mean, I really had all my arguments Can I interject When the first idea came That he come to you or you come to him Say, come and do a set No, he was a Sunday night I was sleeping I had no idea he was coming Okay So people think because Louis did the introduction Of his show Walking into the comedy seller

1:23:26That we were friends But we were not friends at all As a matter of fact I didn't even know he was going to do that In the show He did that It was generous of him But he did that because It fit his show I mean, I knew him for years and years And years Had almost no interaction with him So this wasn't standing up for your best friend No, not at all Yeah It was simply because I It's like the oath to guess How was I going to justify I'd have to lie through my teeth Over and over and over again That's why I did this And I felt deeply that it was wrong So I was sleeping in any Showed up earlier than we expected And then the shit just hit the fan You know And I was in the thick of it And um But because I had really thought Everything through in advance I was up to it in some way And that Michael Barbarale interview Well You What was your problem with that? I remember it I remember listening to that And we had known each other a little bit I don't really know you at the time

1:24:27And I thought you came across Really well and you made the point It turned out okay Now you have a friend here now Andy Mills Who was on the inside of that interview Yeah, I probably tell you what Yes But um So what So the first time they contacted me They made it seem like they're kind of on my side And they walked in With the microphone on And then they they were just Putting me through the ringer It got so ugly And of course I didn't record it I'm such an idiot That Juanita My wife was Through them out Get the fuck out of here He answered you were ready How many times I said Juanita Take it easy That's true In my way I see her get five Everyone has seen No, not the Juanita Take it easy Juanita Is Puerto Rican at 12 It got really It got really okay Because he really blindsided me Really ambushed me for like an hour And I got through the interview And then for like six weeks It wasn't aired And then I got a call from his officer Michael just has one more question He wants to ask you about this Swimitorone risk policy

1:25:28And how it's working out Can he call you I said sure he can call me That's why you can hear it on the interview Like I'm like totally casual My kids are in the background And then he went at me again For like another 45 minutes Never even asked me about the Swimitorone risk interview Then the interview comes out And they literally spliced My words into paragraphs I didn't say So I was outraged But there was one Single thing there Well they asked me about Mike Tyson I don't remember exactly what it was And I was worried Oh shit The way this sounds No they asked me about Bill Cosby Right And I said that I would Would you use Bill Cosby I said well I wouldn't put him on But I would not judge any other club That does want to put Bill Cosby on Because what A businessman Does with another free person To in terms of their It's none of my business I put it better than that But that was basically But the way it came out I was like all this Mike Tyson trouble for me So I contacted the office I said can Michael call me Or can I speak to Mike There's one little part there Maybe they could add in more of what I actually said

1:26:30I said yeah Michael will call you at two o'clock And then two o'clock came He never called me And he's ghosted me ever since And I asked I've asked for the actual Full interview if I You know it just it was a total hit Hit job but in the end Yeah I did come out okay Because I had all my arguments together And even with all their editing They weren't able to get me As far as booking But let me tell you something There's so much other stuff On the cutting room floor Screaming Yelling Him he said why He says to me one time No why are you blaming the victims Wow What And I said blaming the I said right now You tell me exactly what you're referring to Because I know what you're trying to Like it got very ugly between And of course that never Is there But as far as like booking Comics There has been a thing that we've talked about And you obviously know And it kind of relates to everything we've been talking about previously Of comedians that have gone out And become very political And said some things that are kind of crazy

1:27:31Like I'm thinking of a couple of comics in particular That I was like whoa That's not what I expected And you know it's counter to kind of everything that you believe etc Do you ever have a thought Like you know what I don't like that guy I don't like what he says I don't like his podcast I don't like the shit that he says Maybe if it's about Jews Or Israel There's a lot of Jews stuff That comes with Comedian podcasts these days That you wouldn't book them No I don't have that thought Never No I really I don't people don't believe I really don't It's just not the way I'm Built I mean you have like a couple of terrorists who work for you right Basically A lot Oh my god Which one It's like I have had people over the years who work for me Who have like a Facebook in English And it's all very reasonable And then somebody said Well you should see his Arabic Facebook post But really On this point Is the most important Person in your life

1:28:32Is Your long since past father Yeah You talk about him a lot You have amazing funny stories about He's the one who started the club He owned the cafe war Which is famous No I own the cafe He didn't know He didn't know You own the cafe war But he owned other clubs And The number of stories he told me about it Him And I was like Oh this is where Nome comes from The kind of Ertex of Nome Is His father Hiring I talk to I can reveal his name Talk to Mustafa Mustafa Who's was Dave Chappelle's Longtime Manager And he told me the story Of coming into the club And he's from Haifa And he says I'm from Palestine And he goes and asks for a job And my father says No I'm from Palestine No he said I'm from Yeah I'm from Palestine And then Mustafa said That he sat down at a table Yeah And he's like I guess I got a job interview I'm going to talk And I want to be a A waitress And a waiter Well the fine joke about that Was that there was one male waiter Who was gay And he's like It's not a man

1:29:33But it sits down And instead of an interview He argues with them About the Middle East For like four hours And that was kind of How he got people To come in People that He would Disagree with only That was the requirement That was the culture The place always That was the culture My father's life That's where the Comedy's central show Tough crowd came from Colin Quinn's show Yeah That was the Colin Quinn You know he based that show On the Arguing at the table In the Comedy Seller Okay And it was the same crew actually Yeah So that's just That's where we were up But it was always I mean that's why To this day Everyone in the kitchen Is Egyptian Or A lot of Mexicans now Yeah But everyone One guy comes out And he said Yeah he fought in the sixth day War on the Wrong side He I don't know what he walks out My I don't want to say the wrong thing Whatever Who gets a shit My father used to book Dean Obadala You know Dean Obadala Dean Obadala Dean Obadala

1:30:33He used to book every single night Yeah Dean God bless him He's He's He's not very funny No And then he came Some Estee The book He said Many Why He said Just book him It was Only because he wanted him to come And to argue about his real Impalas That's great He was sacrifice In some way Or You know Like He's sacrificed It really I don't want to Overstate it Yeah Why not But It's video I was I don't have to Point is that My father's priority Yeah Was He wanted Dean There's Every night So he could scream And yelling Yeah And already But Palestine I mean Oh God That's a risky Businesses I think Booking him every night Is far riskier Than you defending Even Bill Cosby Yeah I didn't defend Bill Cosby I never understand that you did It's on the cutting room floor They left him So damaging too And I want to also point out This is what the second Podcasts in a row

1:31:34That Well not No, there's been one And I mean But two out of three Where somebody The guest is Shit on Michael Pabaro Oh, that's right Chris Chris That's right When When ham on Pabaro Yeah, he did In the last Michael Barbaro has Total access to the Recordings that I'm referring to I challenge him Mr. Barbaro I challenge him To release those interviews That he did with me Well, you know how I know that You were upset about this Because the time That I said that the first show A first live show That we ever did As if it's home Was at the Comedy Cellar You weren't there that night And our guest Was Michael Barbaro And I think that you might Have even said I wouldn't have allowed that To happen No, I didn't I would have allowed it The one person You wouldn't book Release the dormant files Yeah, release the dormant files Oh my gosh Yeah, he said We had two guests On that Yeah, we had a knife Jody Evergan Jody Evergan Can I just Can I just rehabilitate Dean I mean the story is colorful Dean was A good comedy

1:32:35Comedian in good standing there Yeah, but just Yeah, that was a very lawyerly You didn't say he was just not fun I feel that I'm just trying to tell the story You mean he did his bill I'm trying to be a good rock and tour Yeah Yeah That was in Jody Evergan I love Jody I found out something about Jody Which I never put together the last name Is that I had been researching this thing For years About the LaPenka bombing A bombing that happened In Nicaragua Where all these kind of sandalista Journalists were there And one of the people Was Was last name was Avergan And I finally asked him He's like, I guess my father Tony Avergan And I was like the guy who was like Literally said it was the CIA It turned out it was San Nusa It was the bomb this thing And it turned this happened much later And it was like a big Well at that point no one cared about Nicaragua anymore But at the time it was like We're blowing up journalists

1:33:36In to make a point against this Contra leader etc And it was this big conspiracy theory And his father was Was kind of part of Of spreading that And I was like, holy cow Is that Europe And we have this conversation In Jody is an amazing guy Who texted me one time He said, my parents are in town Because he was married to the other Women named Martha Honey Who was like a big left wing journalist Who was supporting the San Nusa He said, come over So I went over And we had this amazing Because the loveliest people in the world And we talked about Like how they got that so wrong And that was Jody's parent And I was always wanted to do something about that Until I realized that no one gives a shit about Nicaragua But it barely did at the time So Anyway Oh gosh Well no I appreciate you coming by It's always wonderful to hang out with you We owe you a great deal Have many fond memories at the seller Anytime I talk to someone Who is visiting New York And they say, what should I do That's what we do Go to the seller Especially me It isn't even a secret But it is for whatever reason Like people can still get in

1:34:37And there isn't like a line down the block The way they're ought to be And I can say that There's a lot No, in the restaurant There is a restaurant The restaurant is part of the two And you should be coming up to the cafe I'm saying Because up in the cafe is a show too You got cool people hanging out in the back We're frequently there Oh you're building a new one too You got the new one too When's that open? I said the opening date is moving backwards Like a hitchcock special effect You know This is New York closed for you And in a way it's a 60 days I'm hoping How's that soon Yeah Okay, you have a name for that You want to reveal it? Well it's going to be the comedy sale But I'm going to name it in some way After my father Like the The comedians want me to name it The Managed Warman Comedy Theater I want to name it The Managed Warman Comedy I don't know how to name it And Yeah Fuck is the matter with you people No, you're laughing No, I do I want to be like I want the same thing but more Jewish Yes Well no, that's the thing So he was known Like he was Israeli And he considered his name to be Managed Warman But yeah, his nickname was Mani

1:35:38And everybody knew him was Mani So it makes perfect sense to name it Managed Warman Because people say We're at the Mani Right? Like my big deal is an idea Was it called the Man Yeah But in this time of uh Anti-Semitism I just feel this or say no It's the fucking Manachemd Warman Comedy Wow That's really I feel about it It's really an idea Refinement The Trump Yeah The Trump candidate I'm just saying it's a thing But I just think Yeah So in some way I can name it Yeah, it's my father Yeah, the IDF I'm more nervous doing this show That I am debating like Omar Bartov is such a good guy I don't know I don't know Don't be nervous Is that because Bartov is a lightweight And we're not Is that what you're saying? That's what I'm saying Because I want to do well With you guys I want your approval Yeah, okay Be um You know we're still on campus I know This is one I'm sure Be because you guys are so smart Like you know And Bartov is not Yeah

1:36:41And see because I'm more in control And I don't have like as a guest You don't want to talk too much You want to be like I know from the host side When a guest is overbearing It says Yeah, yeah No, I always hear it from you When I'm like How was the guest And then it's just like I'm like It's not too much Waste that was And that's That's a good 50% of the time for you So we compared No, so we have You've had this Where certain people were just so awful You just couldn't even air it Yeah, has that happened with us We had some lost that Yeah, we was having a couple times Had a couple times Sometimes we'll air like two minutes of it Just because we really have it Well, we had one that we didn't air That was the night that Joe Biden's brain Collapsed on television Yeah In the debate Because my liver collapsed In Matt's that that day In Matt We were sitting there watching it Right here and we were just like Oh my god And it was so hard Like you know I mean we all knew what was happening with Joe Biden We were talking about him Everybody was drinking a lot And we were just like This is bad And we were

1:37:42Heist in the jars as the Irish would say And we came Back here to record audio only at the time Before I went to video In Matt Sat down with the microphone I didn't realize it Because I think we were talking to other people And we sat down And like foster brooks would have been embarrassed It was like Japan And it was It was the most I can see them looking at each other Like it was the most It was the most astonishing thing Like Bernie Shaw during your rap war Yeah, that was John King when Well, the line was cut Oh, that's another one Oh, remember that one? He was out Because he was then married to The other woman See on the blonde woman there And they were out at dinner Yeah, and But he was called Did you know that was a great name Dana Batch And yeah, I think it was the correspondent And I was like You gotta get back We got bin Laden And he came back And this clip is Shockingly hard to find And I don't know if they're making copyright claims on it But he is one of my favorite videos We got him like John King You know Been a lot of money killer And he's like Yeah, it's fucking He's fucking out And yeah

1:38:43The line Yeah, it's like a construction guy Right? He's from like Say I remember I don't know But the guy's fucking Damn, that's awesome It wasn't that bad But it was Hilarious drunk And also On Kennedy show Corey Lewandowski I was came on Kennedy show drunk Yeah You know, my Bernie Shaw during the golfer I don't remember if he'd been drunk That dichotomy That was Yeah, you sure Yeah, sure you could find him Bernie Shaw We should do a Seeker The liquor Bernie He was so great He was great He was very sure He was very good He was like the last anchor to have Grovy Toss Yeah, I think that's true Anyway Yeah Lost episode of Matt I think I probably have it somewhere We spliced in a couple of bits In it when we Oh yeah, I cut one A little bit I did it Because I was editing it And I did like a Like a voiceover Of like we Couldn't It was like, you know It was like a twilight zone Voiceover I was like We couldn't Enter certain parts of this episode And then kind of like I got it I got it I got it He's He's Sorry

1:39:43I bet You got to play it at your live event I think we should Well, at the new club We're going to have a 16-foot wide TV screen Oh wow You guys want to do a live event there And you can play like Outtax Oh wow Yes Well, did they do the first one there Yeah We want to do the first one there Let's open the place with this one What's the seat What's the We'll get 200 200 All right Now we can fill that up Easy A little small All right We got this We didn't get to And I just want to say The one thing I'm very upset about Is For some reason there's a video Curtis Lee Well And we didn't get to it So what do we do I shouldn't just play it That's Oh, that's what it was Sure Do you support a united Ireland Do you support a united Ireland That's right Dr. Rebels United Ireland That's right John Connolly Right Does you remember 1960 Easter Sunday Did the mayor mention that Got in a shot at Did the mayor mention that because

1:40:44Mayor Ramdani was at the St. Patrick's Day Event breakfast and passing the door breakfast I was in breakfast here In which he gave a speech about the genocide in Palestine Which by the way it does appeal to all of Ireland Uh-huh Which is a country That really is obsessed with that issue To know your constituency And but it's very disappointing Because I do like Curtis Lee I do I just have this fondness form Despite the fact that we invited him on And I don't think He responded Unlike Cuomo who said yes 15 times They've never showed up Which is worse Oh Cuomo by a lot By a lot But Sleewa That is With the end of the show So I will not do a French goodbye But that is Not an opinion that I appreciate I kind of want to try to do it I had Sleewa on and I couldn't get Every answer was canned One time he gave the same canned answer twice He forgot and he'd already said it Oh yeah He would have Yeah All right that was a banger of an episode Wasn't it? Pretty good Pretty good But before you go During the episode

1:41:44We talked about something It was happening while we were recording But you know In the 10 years we've been doing the show Never a sponsor We're breaking the streak We're breaking the streak Now this is it And the reason we're breaking the streak now Is because it's a product That all three of us actually use Truly Not one of those fake things We actually use this product now It's ground news And during that podcast Tulsi Gabbard was testifying in front of Congress And the first thing I do When I get off this show Because it's been happening Is go to ground news And what ground news Tells me Is an overview Of the story Who is reporting it Went you know 23% of the people on the left You're talking about 50% of the outlets Talking about this are on the right So I'm pretty interested to know what's going on This is the bias comparison That they have at ground news And you too should be using this app Because we are a media literacy podcast And you tune in to be literate With the media When we're not recording You should be going to ground news.com

1:42:46Slash 5 Because that's where you get 40% off The unlimited access vantage plant Again you just don't want to have the limited access Non-vantage This is unlimited because you are friends with ours 40% off and unlimited And when I walk away from this table today I want to know which members of congress Were roasting Tulsi Gabbard How it's being reported I would usually get that from this show Yeah But it happened we were recording We couldn't know But I couldn't know I can read the summaries on ground news It's quite good We can know now And you too can know If you go to ground news.com Slash 5 And 40% off And you can maybe Maybe I doubt it But you can be as smart as we are Yeah Well Yeah Anyway Okay Okay Bye Bye