Tiger on the Champions Tour?

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Welcome back to Hackett Out Golf Podcast.

I've got a question for you Greg.

It's just me and Greg this week, Lou, is away with his university team.

Tiger Woods is an old man now.

He is 50s, joined the 50 club, the most 50 club, and he's now eligible in theory for

the Champions Tour.

Yeah, come on out.

What?

Yeah.

Come on out to play.

So I just want to have a chat with you today about what you think that means for him,

for the tour, for you.

In a first question, what are your thoughts about Tiger playing Champions?

So obviously, I imagine you would like it, because Pots will get bigger and attention

would get bigger in theory.

Yeah, I got a lot to unpack here, actually, because there's lots of different avenues

we could go down.

Yes, that would solve a lot of the Champions Tour's problems in terms of making money.

They've been given an edict to make more money on the Champions Tour from the brass,

because they're owned by the PGA Tour, so there is, that does solve that problem.

Self, I think, like all the players I talk to, because we all played in the year against

Tiger, and all benefited so greatly from his performance and who he is, that there's

a healthy sort of respect for he could do it again for us as players.

I don't know about his health.

I don't know enough about it at all, and it's none of my business anyway.

I will say, the only whispering I've heard is that I've spoken to a couple of people

close to him, a couple of friends of his other players, and it's not any amazing nugget,

but it's just basically, he wants to win the US Senior Open, because then he'd have

every trophy the USGA have, US, junior amateur, US amateur, and then, of course, the US Open

and the US Senior Open.

I have another theory that I wish the Tour would look into in that, I think, given they

have this four-profit piece now, and they can pretty much make up rules as they like,

I would offer them a piece of the growth.

Okay, so get in there, come and help, and get some, I would offer some way, some format

or form of ownership, or I don't know how you do it, like the vast majority of brass

who say, we're not structured that way, well, you have a four-profit piece now, and

you seem to be able to structure things however you want, and so I think, if he's going

to come out to the Tour and all of a sudden, prize money goes up, or TV ratings go up,

which they would, and then, of course, TV deals go up, I don't love talking about them,

it's a business piece to this, so I'd be like, all right, here's some of that.

I think that's actually another avenue for these guys to potentially, I don't give

me care if you add some other plays into that discussion, people who have moved the needle.

I think that's one of the discussions that you could have.

The part of this that is probably a little more challenging to get into his head, the

Champions Tour works really, really well for guys who are okay getting beaten occasionally

by people who they used to beat all the time.

Right, so it's an ego leveler as such, almost unique.

It can be, because this isn't who you were 30 years ago now, this is who you are now,

and we're all, like I've said before, we're all diminished, and so it's who's diminished,

the most or the least or the, you know, and so that's why you see some players, they'll

be like, well, I've never heard of this guy, how come now he's, you know, dominating.

Stephen Alk has a great example.

Yeah.

Guys made $12 million in the last four years, and he hasn't finished worse than third

on our chair.

He's playing incredible golf for a 50-year-old man, 50-50-44, 53.

So the piece of this that I don't know is, A, how does that, people, and I don't know

if Tiger cares about this, but people would start to question, if you get beaten by the

great charmers of the world, is that good for you or bad for you?

Yeah.

And that's another discussion that you've seen people in the past not stay out there

very long, potentially for those reasons.

And you know, whether it's a, you know, a Nick Fowler or someone like that.

Yeah.

Because I remember Nicholas and Watson playing Champions Tour, I think, didn't they?

What was the birth of the Champions Tour?

Was it them?

Was it that era that kind of gave birth to the Champions Tour?

Yeah, yeah.

Yes.

Nicholas, player, it was around those guys basically turning 50, and like, what are we going

to do now?

Right.

So then in a...

I believe, like, I'm not the greatest historian in the world.

No, no.

But I mean, I distinctly remember them playing, and part fun and part the show must go on.

Like, you know, we're still entertaining for people, even, but we don't want to do what

you're saying now, which is go into tournaments and be beaten by Billy Noe mates when I'm

the big, you know, the big superstar of years.

In that era, sorry to side by, but in that era of Nicholas and all of those, Arnold Palmers

of the World, in that era, the Champions Tour at points used to outright the PGA Tour.

But I was going to say, I mean, I do remember them wanting to win majors as well.

I remember them wanting the majors, and that's the big thing around Tiger.

It's interesting that you say that around the US open, because I personally would say that

winning a senior major event does still hold enough weight for any ego of golfer.

Is that fair?

I mean, I mean, I know you would love to win one, but if you...

I would say your ego is very small in golf, but if you are the Tiger Woods is and, you

know, the Jordan Speeps or whatever, when they get in a certain age, winning a senior open

or a senior US open or the other major, that does still carry a lot of weight, does it

not?

Yeah, it does.

And look, here's some of the things that I'll give you the upside of the Champions Tour

that, you know, we can touch on.

It scratches, it very much scratches a competitive edge.

Right.

It also solves a relevancy problem, and what I mean by that is there's some players who

have really important financial deals with companies, and they need to be able to say

they're professional golfers.

Yeah, they still need to show their talent, a performing person.

Correct.

Correct.

And so there's a piece of that to business-wise, it's very advantageous for guys.

Right.

For some of the top players.

I think if, you know, if Tiger, we know is, you know, hyper-competitive, and when you

start offering around things like, hey, I want to add this trophy to my cabinet, I think

that is relevant, that matters.

I think it's also, look, it's a great opportunity for people who have potentially never seen

him in the flesh hit a golf ball to watch him hit a golf ball.

And there is a nostalgia piece to this tour, obviously, right?

And so that is something that could be, you know, another itch that could be scratched

from a fan-based standpoint.

I think it provides a whole bunch of conundrums for the PGA tour, if he does play.

In what way?

What'd you mean?

Well, turn on the golf channel and the first two stories are Tiger Woods instead of

a fun event on the PGA tour.

I see what you mean.

So if it's players week, but he decides to tear it up at the same, I'm not saying you've

got an event at the same time, but if you did, like, the attention at the moment, debaterably

would move away from the players, wouldn't it?

Yeah.

I'm sure you would.

You're telling sponsors.

Yeah.

I'm telling sponsors to give you $20 million a year, but you're the third story on the

news at night.

Yeah.

You know, the first two of what he'd target shooting had to Tiger play today.

Yeah.

And so that that provides a conundrum that I don't know if anybody has a way to solve that

because, you know, if he does come out and play, and it wouldn't have to be a lot, to

be honest, you know, five to six times, seven times.

And then if you space that out over months, then you constantly talking about, well, when's

he playing next?

So, you know, he'd already seen what's happening with the Masters.

Yeah.

You know, a month away and it's like, well, is he going to play or not?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, in theory, you could imagine if he, if he structured it well enough and I've not

looked to diaries, it could work hand in hand, wouldn't it?

So, if you play champion store, well, he played champion store last week.

So, is he going to play in the open?

Right.

You know, in theory, the stories could work for both tours as well as conflict.

You'd have to be careful with the diaries so they don't because I mean, he's a good chance

he's still going to peg it up in full-blown majors, isn't that?

I mean, there is still that discussion, like you say, in happening.

The champion store isn't the front of the discussion.

It's part of it.

The front of the discussion is, is he going to play in the Masters in April still, isn't

it?

Yeah, very interesting.

It's not about competing in our minds or in the spectator's minds.

He's going to compete in theory, or at least he, if we enter something, you imagine he's

going to compete because I can imagine Tiger isn't someone who's going to enter something

and knowing that he's not good enough to compete, he'd rather stack away.

So, you know, arguably they could work for each other.

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Yes, I think there's also another argument that you write and there's also another discussion

that could be had around, okay, I can write in a golf cart on the champions tour, right?

Maybe I can use that as solid preparation, one event prior to playing the major, I really

really, really want to win.

Here's a question though, Willie, does he want to, I mean, you can't speak for him, but

does he want to be seen driving in a golf cart at a golf tournament because you drive

in a golf cart at a golf tournament?

So there's no one sees it as he, you're not on the front of the papers every week.

Right.

Yeah, I know, but you should, I mean, does Tiger Woods want to be seen driving a golf

cart at a golf tournament?

I don't know.

Honestly, I honestly can't answer.

I don't know, but there's a part of me seeing that thinking, oh, that's disappointing.

Given the, given the size of the crowds that he would have to weight his way through,

and the guys with him, it would be an app, a bit of a problem, like to try, I can tell

you, like if we have a week where, you know, I'm doing well, and there's a few people

out and about, and I'm trying to drive around a golf cart.

It's not easy.

Yeah, yeah.

I could see that.

It's not, it's much easier to be walking, to be honest.

And so, yeah, there's a piece of, and there's an ego piece to this.

Like if you're in a golf cart and you know, the two playing partners that you're in the

last group are walking, it's hard to reconcile.

I've had that happen to myself where you're like, hmm, it doesn't feel right.

Yeah.

So, yeah, it's, it's definitely something that, I don't know what he's thought, so it's

there.

Like you can, I mean, she whizzes if I was the champion still maybe, if I was running

it, maybe just turn around.

Guys, everybody rides this week, Tigers plan.

Yeah.

Right.

Like, just to make him feel comfortable, I like it, like I don't care if he drives the cart

on the green to be honest.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Drive over my line, Tiger.

I don't care more this week as you're in.

Okay.

You drive away.

Yeah.

Oh, that was my ball.

Do not worry, sir.

I'll just replace it.

So, here's a question and here's a question which I can't get me if, like, why would

he, if the, if the diary allows it, okay, and if he's playing, select, say he plays

the masters and a few other events, why would he not play the US seniors open?

So no diary conflicts, no fitness conflict, take them off the table, let's say he's fit

and there's no, why would he not play an event that he's eligible for that is a major?

So, my question is kind of hinting at, if he is eligible and play US Open and he's physically

able to play a US Open, seeing the Champions store, US Open, but choose is not to, does

that not then say that he doesn't care about that event, that might, I like to see with

the work that.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's another conundrum that I've actually wondered.

Everyone's talking about Willie Play and no one's really talking about, well, what does

it say if he doesn't play?

Yeah.

And that he's able to.

Correct.

Yes.

Yes.

And that's another sort of conundrum that I don't know that the Champions Tour has discussed

that much either.

Because it's a responsibility, not that he needs to be his responsibility, but it kind

of is his responsibility.

He has the ability to not destroy, because I think the majors on the senior's tours are way

bigger than that, but he does have the ability to downgrade that event by saying I don't

want to play in it.

Like if you, if you all decided as pros and you're, hey, days ago, I'm not playing the

Masters.

The Masters would die within a few years, it just would die.

It played.

You will sign up to want to play.

You're all part of that, that gig, you don't have to play.

You could easily go, no, I'm going to give it a mistake.

Yeah.

And I think the extra lay could add to that is if he chose to play, but on the PGA tour,

the same week instead of the major or the tournament on the Champions Tour.

That would add another layer of, you know, a negative, yeah.

See, that to me, that would be less in my personal opinion, that would be less of a negative.

That would mean he is still for me that he's valuable, right?

Well, he's valuing his PGA tour career still enough.

It doesn't mean he doesn't disrespect the US Open Champions Tour, US Open.

I'll play it when I'm there, when I'm ready.

I'm still here.

I'm still competing here.

If nothing is on and he's playing and he can schedule that in and doesn't play, who's

going to ask why he's not playing because the trouble is in golf.

We don't have a media.

I mean, that would be the question I would want to ask him, why have you not played this

week?

Don't make up some excuse that you're injured, like I wouldn't, like, let's report about

golf seriously.

Like, why have you chosen not to?

I don't know.

It's an interesting question.

It works both ways.

Doesn't it?

Yes, it's all a lie.

And there aren't many golfers I can imagine that have that responsibility?

No, no, it's a way.

That'd be a lot to, that's a needle, right?

Like it's, the game goes where he takes it, even into his fifties.

Yeah.

And so you can look at it like, you know, I think it's a pretty interesting opportunity

for all involved.

Yeah.

And it could be, it could be, if you, the people that it's, like, I think people would

be shocked at some of the guys who were at that kind of discussion level, like the Ernie

Els of the World, at how much they're really enjoying competing and working and practicing

and still trying to get good golf out of themselves.

Yeah.

I think that's, I don't know if Tiger's in that place, but that is something that

is, is, if you're going to be successful in Champions Tour and, like, get into it and

really want to be there, you have to tap into that competitive nature of yourself and

you have to be okay with occasionally someone beats me that wouldn't have beat me 20 years

ago very much.

Yeah, that is an adjustment.

I get that, that, that's something that you would have to write with yourself and need

to be something you would have to write in your mind as such.

Yeah.

Because there'd be, there'd be criticism with that, no question.

Yeah.

And the other piece of this that we haven't chatted about much is that what if he comes

out and isn't as successful, doesn't do us at Johnson and just win straight out the

gate.

What happens there?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's, I wonder if that is something as well that would then make you not play because

it is interesting, isn't it?

You know, there are, you've experienced it.

We talked about it when we were together.

There were great junior golfers, weren't there?

We can name some junior golfers who were, like, going to be the next big thing.

You competed with, and I remember the names, and you wouldn't know where they are now.

And then there's been great tall players.

And then there'll be great senior tall players and there are different disciplines which

in theory can be celebrated in their own right as well.

There's different challenges, different challenges.

I'm sorry, but like Tiger was a great junior and he was a great tall player and I'm sure

it'd be a great senior tall player.

But there are other cases that would say it doesn't always flow that way.

It's not always linear.

Yeah.

Not always.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

And certainly with the state of bodies, you know, your physical body gets in at different

ages.

And I say all of this, Tiger can listen in and get really frustrated and come out and

play and try and win the Schwab Cup and then we're, yeah, everybody wins.

Here's an interesting one.

Just to finish on.

And like, he is doing the indoor league.

I know he's financially involved in it, so it's an obvious response.

I get why.

He's promoting his own business that I don't judge him.

That's good.

I get what he's doing.

But that's pretty undervalued in the realms of golf like, okay, I don't can't tell you

he's winning any of that.

And I don't care.

Like, it's a bit of fun if you care about it, but he's turning up to do that silliness,

silliness.

I don't mean that the right way.

I think it's silliness, but if you like it, I don't think you're silly.

That's cool.

You like it.

That's great.

It's nothing I would care about.

So he's turning up for that for obvious reasons, but they're not turning up to the champion

store.

Find a way to give him the piece of the growth mark.

Well, is this, yeah, well, that's what I mean.

Is it about golf or is it only about business and does that matter to you or not to me?

It doesn't.

I get it.

Well, here's the thing.

It's very easy for someone like me to see.

It's all about legacy.

Iverse.

Yeah.

Yeah, but it's very easy for me to sit here and say, you know, it shouldn't matter

or the money should, but I don't, I don't generate my own economy in the tunes of hundreds

and millions of dollars like it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so when you do that and you roll out there and you see everything changes because

of you, yeah, I'm okay if you turn around and say, yeah, here's some of that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

It's an interesting discussion.

As we went further down in that, it gets more, it's more than the surface willy play

or not.

I think there's other questions around if he doesn't play that we've ended on there.

And then what he is playing in and like, yeah, it's an interesting one.

As always, everything he does will always be interesting because obviously he is one of

the best, if not the best that has ever played the game and we're lucky to have had him

and having.

And I definitely for one would love to see him play Champions Tour, not on a selfish

level.

Obviously, I'm friends with you and I think that helps you guys earn more money and make

your tour better.

Great.

I'm up for that.

And I would just like the Champions Tour majors to be worth what they should be worth in

my opinion.

I get people might challenge it to I know this just doesn't work like it's impossible

to do.

But I always think it's a shame that the like the the open and the seniors open and the

women's open is in all at the same time on the same course and bloody, bloody ball mix

playing.

I think that would be fantastic.

I totally understand logistically it just would it's impossible.

But the fact they're separate events, I always think, just shame the open should just be

the open and you will play and if you're over a certain age, you're in that division.

Like you can play in all divisions, like I remember our club events, you had to play

in any of the divisions, like if you had a there was a growth score and there was a

net score and then there were two divisions in the net score.

I almost I personally love to see that.

I think that would be fantastic.

It is impossible and ridiculous idea practically.

I get that for people, shout me down.

But I personally would love to see him play and want to win champion tour majors just because

I would want the world to respect them as much as I think they're still worth winning.

Does that make sense?

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

It ignites the game doesn't it and it at the whatever level he plays at.

So if he was to roll out and win a champion's tour major, then they automatically become

hyper relevant.

Yeah.

100%.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Look, it's going to be, you know, fingers crossed, the biggest hurdle I think is his health,

is if he's healthy.

Yeah.

It'll be interesting because, you know, and we'll know more here soon and Masters is coming

up.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

And the US Open Champions Tour at some point will be the one where we do see him.

I think that'll be the one that you said at the start there, just that makes perfect

sense to me to win every one of those events.

Really impressive.

Oh.

Crazy, impressive.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just be amazing.

And something we would all want to watch and see.

It would be fantastic.

Interesting question.

It's always great.

Thanks for your time.

Thanks for listening, everybody.

Let's know your thoughts.

Tiger, winning or competing on the Champions Tour.

I can't see a negative personally.

It'll be interesting to see which way he goes.

Thanks for listening.

Catch you in the next episode.