Todd Monken defends decision to make Deshaun Watson starting QB

0:00coming up on today's PFT live. Todd Munkin isn't troubled by the strongly negative reaction to the decision to go with the Sean Watson in Cleveland. Why doesn't CJ Stroud have a new contract with the Texans and much more on today's edition of PFT live? Welcome everyone to Fanta in 60 a brand new show with me John Fanta and my co-host Jay Croucher. Join us as we bring the fan first energy to NBC Sports now. My new show is the place for understanding the week in sports. We'll talk big storylines by real moments and most importantly we'll hear directly from you. The fans it's going to be a great hand. I can't wait for you all to see it. Fanta in 60 airs Mondays at 6 p.m. Easter on NBC Sports now and NBC Sports Radio. See you there. It's fall in Jeep country and during the driving to fall sales event get a great deal on four by fours that refuse to be contained like Jeep Wrangler. Confidence built into every drive with the most awarded SUV ever Jeep Grand Cherokee and freedom that can't be denied with the open air freedom in Jeep gladiator.

1:03After 85 years it's no surprise that Jeep became America's SUV brand. Get a great deal during the Jeep driving to fall sales event. Jeep is one more awards over its lifetime than any other SUV brand. Jeep and the Jeep Grill Register Trademarks of FCAUS LLC. So when's the edition of PFT Live September the second programming note tomorrow. I will be in studio. Christopher programming note. It's not Friday. Why the hell are you wearing your Adidas shirt? My name is not Michael Holly. I am a lot wider than him. Are you confused with day it is. This isn't really an Adidas. I mean I never seen you jocke a company so much ever then I mean you're usually not into free advertising and you're like Mr. Adidas guy like three days a week now. We're trying we're trying to do eventually it'll wear on the Adidas. And they'll just feel bad. Yeah. At a minimum at a minimum they'll send us some March. I'll take the March. I'd prefer the money. And that's one of the misnomers or is that the right word probably not one of the misconceptions that would be the better word as well as to the shoe deals that players in the NFL have.

2:27The vast majority of the shoe deals are just free merch. They're not money. You just give you free shit. You're right. And their stuff. Yeah, you're right about that. It is funny. And it is awesome. You're going to be here tomorrow. I didn't mean to interrupt you. I was just having fun with you there. They are. I almost got confused. You did mean to. Well, you did mean to. I didn't mean to. You didn't spontaneously start talking. You did mean to. Well, I didn't mean to interrupt something so important of you telling you where you're going to be tomorrow. That's what I should say. But your seats all set up here in the cameras are here. I had one of those moments when I got in this morning and I was like, wait, is he here today? Is he here today? And then you know with everything set up, which is usually not like that. It's like 656. And I didn't see you on screen. And I was a little bit like, wait, is he is he in the building? Is he going to be late? Where the hell is he? So, all right, it'll be fun tomorrow to have you on here. Have you back in person. So we'll be. We'll be in studio six. My favorite studio in the building.

3:27That's good. Yeah, I thought we'd be in your studio. So much for your studio. Yeah, no, it ain't my studio. Well, kicked out of your studio. I get kicked out of my studio a whole lot because it ate my studio. That's for sure. When Premier League has a game or anything like that or a match as they say. Yeah, I usually get the boot out of there. So that is that does stink. But this is a great studio. And I do like doing this show right here in this studio. You're right about the merch though. Right. Like in the NFL, I think everybody thinks every player's got, you know, oh, they get cash from Nike. They get cash from underarm and all that. And no, it's it's very few players. It's really only the top notch players on each team that are actually getting maybe true hard cash for through their their apparel endorsements. You're going to get your free merchandise like you talked about and allowed a lot of some. But the quarterback, a few of the stars.

4:27On the football team, those are the only guys that are making like significant money. Maybe, you know, with shoe deals and doing stuff like that. Everybody else. Yeah, you're right. They're kind of just looking for the free merch and doing it that way. And look, for those of us who aren't getting anything and have to work clothes, it's what we like. I like a deed. I don't like Nike because they have screwed up the NFL uniform as I knew they would. That's what it's about. And they got the contract from Reebok 14 years ago. So every time every time you see an adidas logo interpret that as a tiny little middle finger to Nike. Wow. That's what that is. I don't know. You also see the Nike swoosh from time to time. I can't. I'm not fully committed to it because I do have some Nike stuff that I don't want to call it out every time. Nike stuff that's very hypocritical, very hypocritical right there. We're going to start calling it out throwing challenge flags on that right there. I on the other hand, Nike. If you're looking to sponsor somebody and you have sponsored me before and they did give me cash back in the day. I only wear Nike. I am really that guy. I only wear Nike sneakers. My friends know me to be that way. I grew up in that generation where I was prime Michael Jordan, right? I mean, a guy that a kid that's born in 1980.

5:48When I was six, seven, eight years old, I was like, wait, who's this guy that is named air? And it does look like he kind of flies through the air. So I was so on that and really became a Nike guy. Mike, I don't know if I ever told you this. I told certain schools. I wouldn't go there because they weren't Nike schools when I was getting recruited in high school, which sounds ridiculous now. But yes. And when I first went to Texas and went down there and saw a Reebok, I was like, man, Reebok. I mean, I love Texas. And I, and I was like, gosh, and Mac Brown, you know, he was, you know, trying to swindle me a some may say, swoon, whatever. And I, one of my things that I brought up, I was like, oh, it stinks. You guys are Reebok. And he was like, what? Well, hold on, hold on. Hold on. I've been a Nike guy. I've been a Nike guy. I've had one more year left on this deal. And we're going to go to Nike. So I went one year of wearing Reebok and breaking my rule before they switched to Nike and having the biggest Nike contract there was.

6:51By the way, with the input of some of the viewers, we have figured out that when you say swindle and or swoon, you mean smooth. And maybe I think so. I mean, I think that's the word you're looking maybe right. Right. Swindle does not apply. Although for college football coaches, Swindle in many cases may be the more accurate word. Now since you've opened the door counselor by bragging about being one of the ones who actually got money, how much money did you get from Nike? I don't even give a damn. I'll tell you. Back in those days, and I got like, I think I was getting $250,000 a year getting paid by Nike, which was. Yeah, which damn right. Did they think you were filmed? I know. Well, you know, I think one, I, most people thought I would get drafted in the first round. I didn't, I fell in the third round. And yeah, because, you know, I guess I was a quarterback. I think that added to it. And then I was from Texas and and had that behind me. Yeah, that was a pretty damn good deal for a guy that was not a first rounder. So I had 250,000 cash and then like another 30,000 and free merchandise and couldn't even spend it all.

8:09I mean, you know, how many damn they don't have 30,000's worth dollars worth the Jordans and everything. So I would get to the end of the year every year and call friends and family and be like, hey, I got all this money. I mean one year I bought I had like $5,000 left. And I got my dad $3,000 worth of golf balls. And because he used this is when he was in his prime and instead of feeding the foxes and the turkeys and everything that he does now, he used to sit in the backyard and hit golf balls and just hit him into the woods. Or if it was an iron, he could hit it from one side of the yard to the other in Chateau Day Sims over there. So that was really funny. And to this day you can go back in the woods and see golf balls everywhere. So free golf balls behind Phil Sinaghan. Exactly. Get in there. Watch for the incoming golf balls and be where the steak fed foxes. Exactly. All kinds of issues. And more robust than the usual foxes. Right. It reminded Gary and also me of our visit with Todd Monkin at the Scouting Combine when he was wearing his vanilla ice gear that represented the last remaining bits of merch credits that he had in Baltimore.

9:25And yeah, we have a picture of his get up. It really was kind of a young look for a guy who did he look like a rough 60. My son was amazed to find out he was 60. He looks like a rough 60. Well, he's, isn't he? Well, I mean, he looks older than me. He looks older than me and I'm older than him. He's that fair to say. Well, I that is fair to say. It is. He, well, hey, listen, that job and what he's done as we know, you know, when I talk about aging, I just go look at my friend, you know, my friend in San Francisco, all the memes about him. Look at him when he was hired, look at here nine years later. And he looks like he aged 25 years in that nine years. So it's a stressful job. And these guys like these offense of genius guys and all these genius guys, they grind, they grind. And that that's where you know, it catches up to you. But he looks. Here's the picture of you. Hey, screw for real, Todd, you look better than him right there.

10:26It reminds me of just like the whole dynamic with presidents, how presidents age, although some presidents age, us like presidents, but I won't name names. Currently. So let's let's continue with the monk and five. And look, we love Todd Munkin. I mean, this is something I would say to him if we were just Boston balls and he was hanging around. I feel comfortable with him, even though we've only been around him once or twice. He's, he's, you know, he's got it. He gets it. That's the word I'm looking for. He gets it. He's, he's very down to earth. He's very engaging. And he's taken a lot of heat lately. I feel bad for him about that. But he also gets it that that's one of the consequences of choosing to show Watson to be your starting quarterback when you're the head coach, the Cleveland Browns, because Browns fans don't like to show Watson. And nothing Todd Munkin says is going to change their minds. He addresses things in a very practical way that makes sense. The whole concept of booing. It makes sense on the surface. Browns fans don't care.

11:31You can give me the whole restaurant metaphor. And that's why they boo. You're going to be pissed off if you get cold soup. That all makes sense. But Browns fans don't care. They just don't want number four Watson is the quarterback anymore. And I don't know that two wins is even going to change that if somehow that's what they do. Yeah. Week one in Jacksonville and week two in Tampa Bay. So, so we're going to, we're going to call an audible on the fly. We're calling the audible during the play. Instead of what we were going to lead with today because it wasn't earth shattering. We're going to talk about the Browns. We're going to talk about Todd Monkin. And we're going to talk about what he said yesterday when he was asked this question. Does the reaction to him specifically because there's a lot of Browns fans that want no more Monkin. Now that he's decided to go with Watson does that bother him in any way. Here he is. Absolutely not. Would I prefer right the the ladder like that we'd all be on same page. Yeah, but that has nothing to do with my decision can never have anything to do with my decision is right.

12:47My decisions got to be what's the best for the Browns week one and all the way through the season and as long as I'm the head coach here. And he's right. You got to make the best decision for the Browns and I'm not saying that football decisions should also be made with the broader business interests right of the franchise in behind. But sometimes they are sometimes they are sure and if there was ever a case to make a football decision that it's close. And let's see the fans love one guy and the fans hate the other guy. Why wouldn't that be a factor. Why wouldn't that be a factor. Why wouldn't you consider that when you're determining what's best for the Browns because it's not just X's and O's. It's not just can we win this week. It's not interchangeable parts. You know, there's no NFL coach, not even Bella check who would play different quarterbacks based on which one gives us the best chance of winning the next game. There's a broader picture in mind.

14:01And I think it would be a would have been appropriate for him to consider man, they're going to hate one decision and going to love the other decision. They're going to hate me if I make one decision, they're going to love me if I make the other decision. All things equal that should be a fact. Yeah, I hear that the business part of it is a factor. But as a head coach and a guy that's, you know, running a football team, you got to be the guy that can kind of cancel out the noise. You can't let the fan base and the media tell you who to pick. That's how bust happened. That's what that's happened. And in no better place to say in Cleveland, but Johnny Mansell, that's exactly what happened. Oh, we want him. He's exciting. Yes, but most of you don't know your ass from your elbow. So why would we listen to you? What does that mean? And that's where you can't let the mob take over the conversation that way. I mean, I mean, really a lot of draft the bust and everything we're talking about are really surrounded by what you're talking about there. Oh, his stats were good. Oh, the fans like him. Oh, I don't know. There's, you know, there's people that maybe don't like him as a player, but the stats are good and the fans want him and let's take him. Oh, okay. Oh, wow. Oh, and he had a good emblem on his helmet. You know, that's how you get.

15:16I'm just saying if it's close. No, I'm saying if it's close. I know I'm totally agreeing with you there. I'm not disagreeing with you there. I'm just talking about the broader thing of what's going on here with Todd Monkin. You're right. If it's close, I would, I'm with you there. All those things come into play. But, but in this one, I think what he's trying to say is I've been there every day. I've seen it every day and he's given us these inklings throughout. And, you know, now that they've made the decision, it just makes so much more sense with some of the language he's used, right? In OTA's even a few weeks ago, but right before he named the starter. The phrase that keeps coming to my mind that just says so much is, well, Shadourch really come a long way. I mean, he really closed the gap. He's really done a good job. And, you know, those are coach speak for going like, yeah, at first, it wasn't good. And it wasn't close at first. And there was no competition to talk about. And I think, you know, that's what he's letting you know. So, yeah, he's in a weird position here. He definitely is. But he tries to come in clean slate, evaluate it for what hit is and what he sees it is.

16:20He's the guys he stuck with and he's going to teach them and evaluate him from there and to Sean Watson is his guy. And we'll see if he plays to keep that plays well enough to keep that job. But, you know, for a guy like Munkin in this situation. Yeah, you, you, you got to be careful about listening or any head coach listening to the fan base and the media and social media too much. I agree with that entirely. I agree with that completely. But I feel like there are certain circumstances where yeah, there's something, especially if it's close. You need to take into account how you're paying customers are going to react to the decision. And that even assumes that Todd Munkin made this decision completely and totally on his own without any director and direct influence from GM Andrew Barry, owner Jimmy Haslam or anyone else. There was one weird little moment in the whole saga that unfolded with the booing of Dishon Watson and his over the top reaction publicly and then putting the toothpaste back in the toothpaste holder a couple of days later and being named the starter.

17:34He was asked about the decision and he responded in a way that suggested it was a broader decision than just Munkin that ownership and Barry were involved in it and Munkin later said no, it's my decision, but look, any smart coach is going to make his decisions taking into account how others hire on the pecking order may feel about those decisions. And that gets into the whole how will the fans react to it. I just think that there is the whole thing that I think is going to be a great deal of the same. The whole exes and owes reality of the job that is extremely important. But there is a level where you need to be cognizant of and at times potentially influenced by the reaction to the decisions you're going to make. The living breathing organism that isn't just laboratory setting in a practice facility 11 on 11 football, you've got fans, you've got media, you need to understand how they can help you how they can hurt you.

18:42I agree, you don't make your decisions based on who the fans and the media want or who the fans and the media hate. But and I'm not saying the media hates to Sean Watson. I think that this is a fan driven thing. Yeah, right. But if it's close and maybe the well, but this is what I want. Yeah, that's what I want to ask there. That's what I was going to ask you. I was literally going to about to go just hey, well, maybe what if it wasn't really that close. And again, I think there's some inklings you can draw there to sit sit there and go, you know, maybe it wasn't the fact that they didn't even let the should do play with the starters in the preseason game number two. Again, we all thought that was shocking. We all thought leading up to that. That seemed like, oh, it's suede for the Sean Watson. He's going to start. He's going to be the starter. Now then he didn't play well. Then he had the post game press conference. You know, self inflicted wounds and melt down there about the reaction he got. And that made us go, I don't know. Maybe he can't handle this. Maybe he won't be the guy.

19:48But everything up to that into that point was pointing at like, uh, it looks like the Sean's the starter. That's the way it's going to be. And then again, when you hear the those phrases that we heard from the Lincoln and how far should doors come and, you know, he's really come a long way learning the offense compared to where he started. Yeah, there's those those are things that I think about now and revisionist history and go, yeah, maybe it wasn't as close as we thought it might be or or somebody like me watching the film. Like thought it was closer than it was because he's seen it on an everyday basis. And he's in the meetings and he's hearing the answers. And, you know, I think maybe that that's a reasonable question to ask. Mike, I'm here. I'm there with you on that one. But here's the counter. This is something that we talked about last week. Once the decision was announced that it's going to be to Sean Watson. Munkin said it himself multiple times on the road on the road, not just to Jack Kerrowack novel, but a reality for the Cleveland Browns as it relates to whether or not they even could have gotten away with playing to Sean Watson. If those first two games are at home, we agreed. There's no way they could have done it.

21:02They couldn't have put to Sean Watson out there week one if they were playing at home. Going on the road was a gift from the football gods or a curse is the case may be that allowed them. This two game audition for the Sean Watson. I think we're still on the same page. They can't if they go on to they can't know what they can't try him out there week three against the Carolina Panthers, followed by Thursday night game against the steel. No, agreed with you there exactly right. I mean, you're you're you know, I'm there going man, even if they're one and one in the offense doesn't look that good. It's going to be dicey. We're all going to be tuned in on that day. The Browns at 1 p.m. and week three. We're all going to be like, whoa, hold on. Everybody turned down the other games. We need to hear what the reaction is coming out. So yeah, this is it's got a spotlight on it. We know that. But Munkin for right now is comfortable with the decision he's made because of what he's seen on every day basis. And that's where I can get behind a guy like Todd Munkin, you know, he's football that that's the big thing. And yes, like you said, other influences are there. Of course, he's listening to the owner and taking that into account.

22:13But he is a real football exes and owes coach and he's got to be careful too about, hey, the guys on the team. You know, we haven't heard anybody or any rumors or anything of like, hey, the guys in the locker room are a little like side. I like, hey, I mean, Shadur maybe outperformed him. You know, those are kind of the things you would hear at times. Nobody seems to be like murmuring or talking behind the scenes going, man, they screwed over Shadur. So again, those are things that we don't know, but you just taken into account. But I think he's trying to cancel out the noise. And you know, like we talked about Josh McDaniels, Tim Tibo, he did that. That was a lot of noise. I still think the noise from Traylance and Mac Jones and Mac Jones meme with his belly in his shirt off and fans going, how can you take him over this guy and blah, blah, blah. I still think noise like that overcame and took over situations like that. And that's how busts happen. And so that's where Munkins trying to stay true to his football wizardry there that way.

23:16That still is one of the most amazing transformations I have ever seen. Mac Jones went from looking like a throwback sack of potatoes at Alabama to a superhero when they put him in the New England uniform. That really is amazing. As it relates to Watson and Sanders, maybe the locker room gets it. Maybe they understand, hey, there's no way that we could play this guy at home right now. The only way that's ever going to happen is if he goes on the road and he plays well and we play well, but that would imply that they're behind the idea of it being to Sean Watts. And because if they were firmly pro Shadur, they would understand why it's Watson on the road, but they would still say, well, it should be Shadur on the road. And so that's where the door is the clearly better option. And maybe it's all just so close that nobody is really in a position where they have strong feelings either way. Let's just go. That's what the coach wants to do. Let's just go. Let's go do our jobs and let's see what happens.

24:17On the same page, unless they go to an O, it's going to be Shadur. And I don't know is Dylan Gabriel going to get a shot at some point he started six games last year. And I know he's on IR with this injury that popped up out of nowhere, but he played statistically so well on Thursday night against the Patriots. And I don't know if you saw anything in the film if you even studied the film of the final preseason game that would make you think there's something there to believe that Dylan Gabriel could somehow swipe this after the first one gets benched. And then the second one struggles and what do we do next? Well, we got a third one. Right. Do you think there's a way the Domino's fall that he ends up getting a shot at some point this year? I do. I don't I don't think it's impossible. Yeah. I mean, you just laid it out. Okay. Watson lays an egg. The first two weeks Shadur starts. Oh, man, it's not that. Great. We're one in seven. Right. We haven't seen the progress we like from Shadur. Let's let's look. Hey, I'm Todd Munkin. Everybody's got a clean slate. Let's evaluate Dylan Gabriel. Dylan Gabriel knows how to run an offense and really play the position a quarterback.

25:19That's where when you watch him, you just go, man, it's quick decisions. You know, it's a quick release. He's got pretty good power in his arm. The thing with Gabriel is this just like we even talked about with Kate Clubnik a little bit. I don't know always if it's going to be realistic to work in the NFL the way we think it's going to work based off of what we see in the preseason. Like we saw last year, I mean, the preseason, hey, look pretty good blah, blah, blah. And then he got in the game and you're like, whoa, was he small? Whoa, gosh, he was a pretty good athlete, but in a regular season game, he's not making many plays at all with his legs or doing anything there. And that's what, you know, you got to find out and figure out. But, but yeah, I don't think you, you know, what you're saying would be a shocking revelation if we got to week 10 and they decide to hand over the keys to Dylan Gabriel. Welcome everyone to Fanta in 60, a brand new show with me, John Fanta and my co-host Jay Croucher. Join us as we bring the fan first energy to NBC Sports. Now my new show is the place for understanding the week in sports.

26:26I'm not big storylines by real moments and most importantly, we'll hear directly from you. The fans, it's going to be a great hand. I can't wait for you all to see it. Fanta in 60 airs Mondays at 6 p.m. Eastern on NBC Sports now and NBC Sports Radio. See you there. It's fall in Jeep country and during the drive into Fall sales events get a great deal on four by fours that refuse to be contained like Jeep Wrangler, confidence built into every drive with the most awarded SUV ever, Jeep Grand Cherokee, and freedom that can't be denied with the open air freedom and Jeep gladiator. After 85 years, it's no surprise that Jeep became America's SUV brand. Get a great deal during the Jeep drive into Fall sales event. Jeep is one more awards over its lifetime than any other SUV brand, Jeep and the Jeep Grill Register Trademarks of FCA US LLC. From a football standpoint, there was one specific factor to which Todd Munkin pointed when explaining the benefit of having to Sean Watson in and running the Cleveland offense and the two key words are explosive plays.

27:32Yes, Todd Munkin addressing that wrinkle in this decision. Well, you're not going to be lead on offense and score points if you can't be explosive. So I mean, it's so hard to drive the football to length of the field without an explosive. I mean, you're going to look at all the studies terms of percentage of scoring a touchdown or getting a field goal with one explosive in a drive. Obviously that comes after getting the first first down. So every coordinator is going to say we're chasing explosives and everybody runs with a wee chase explosive. Well, no shit. Okay, everybody's chasing explosives and trying to not turn it over. And that's what you're trying to do. I'm confident into Sean and our ability to push the ball down the field. Otherwise, we wouldn't be starting. And there we go. And that reminds me of the stream of tweets we saw coming out of the joint practices between the Browns and the bills where Shadour was being. Yeah, right by bills players. Yes, for being kept in check down. Yes. Yeah, we've had this conversation a few times through training camp, right?

28:36You know, there was the early early training camp stats. And I had somebody reach out to me to go, yeah, you know, it's been good. But there's been a lot of dink and dunkage as you'd say at a quarterback position by Shadour, maybe being a little too overly conservative. And Munkin is a guy and he's kind of old school this way where he wants to push the ball down the field. He wants to be aggressive. He's an offensive genius that way. I mean, you could say what you want. I mean, we saw what he did with Lamar. Lamar had some of his best years throwing the football in the pocket explosive plays under the two years of the league of Todd Munkin. So he believes in that. And then we know we've been saying this for two years, right? I mean, we've been talking about explosive plays right now. There are more important than turnovers for a lot of coaches in the NFL. It's the biggest stat that determines the game. We had Jesse Minner basically say that to us at the combine memory goes. I think it's actually a bigger stat than turnovers now is exposed to plays when we see too many games where teams turn the ball over and it doesn't matter. And then Josh Allen throws or Lamar Jackson. They throw four 40 yard bombs and whatever else. And he

29:46go, well, they lost a turnover battle, but they won the game. I mean, they know didn't get blown out in the turnover battle, but just, you know, three to one, two to one, whatever, but still win the game. And I guess that's where he feels the Sean Watson is going to bring a different element and push the ball be a little more aggressive with the decision making to help their offense out. And I think Munkins a believer in that. Well, when you get the ball down the field and you have one of these huge chunk plays, you think about the psychological boost to give to the offense, kicking the nuts, sorry London that it gives to the defense. And if you throw a 40 yard pass and it gets picked off, well, that's the good net punt average. If that's ultimately what happens, assuming the guys tackled fairly quickly, but there's a there's a I think boost that the whole team gets when the offense is gaining yards. Yeah, significant. Yeah, portions lights up the team. You're right. The sideline. And if it's a home game, it lights up the crowd. That's nothing gets the crowd going more than a bomb down the field from the quarterback to a receiver or long run. And so, yeah, that's a big part of the game.

30:56I was going to say something off of that. And I forgot what the hell I was going to say somebody asked me at one point. I'll pick up the baton while you look for yours. The question came up of what is my favorite aspect of watching football. And this is unique to watching it on TV. The way that they shoot the game and the way that we see and don't see the things that are happening. My favorite play has always been the long bomb. Yeah, because it's like opening a Christmas present, right? The bomb is in the air. Yeah. And you have no idea what's going to be there when the camera shows you who's down there. There could be 10 guys. There could be one guy. There could be no guys. And you don't know what's going to happen when that ball comes down. Is it going to be a catch? Is it going to bounce off the guys helmet? Is it going to be a Randy Moss situation where there's two guys all over him and he still catches the ball.

31:57So the wonder of that second second and a half that the ball is is spiraling or maybe wobbling a little bit as it arcs in the air. That's the most dramatic and exciting. And the best part about watching football on TV. That's one of the reasons. And I think that's a big reason that some would say that watching football on TV is superior to being in the state. I don't disagree with that. It is definitely one of the most exciting moments of games when you see when you see a quarterback like we have so many times. And to me, Rogers was always the king of this where it just even though you didn't know you could sometimes tell with the confidence in what he threw a deep ball. You're like, Oh my gosh, somebody's on the other end. There's no way he just did it like that. And you know, I know you and I have wax poetically behind the scenes for years and years with, you know, throws from him or my homes the same way. But yeah, it's the most exciting part of the game. That's where, you know, it all gets us up there. The great quarterbacks are usually really good down the field.

33:00Throwers and can make those explosive plays. And like we've discussed too much like I always make fun of it's too hard like Todd Monkin was just saying. Yeah, we're going to go 12 plays 75 yards every time we get the ball like both crap you are with these defensive players in the NFL right now. And that's why the explosive plays have become so big because defenses are a little bit of like, Hey, if we make him go 12 plays, one of our super freaks is going to make a play or do something. One of our detacles going to tip a ball corner is going to jump around right. You're going to throw the ball over the middle. We're going to knock that guy and knock him out knock the ball out right. And that's that's the common thought there of why again, it's just too hard. And that's why you usually see the really good teams in football can, you know, rip off chunks of yards at any time. You've just described the entire philosophical underpinnings of the Tampa two defense. That's what the whole thing is pretty much don't get beat deep. That was Seattle three offense to operate right force them, force them, force them to move the ball systematically.

34:07And I remember when the Vikings had both Brad Childress and Mike Tomlin, it was the ultimate recipe for slowing a game down. You got the West Coast controlled offense and you got the Tampa two defense and there weren't a lot of chunk plays. No, and that's that's how it went on either side. The defense is playing a little safe. The offense is playing it slowly. And you have 13 to 10 is your final score. Exactly right. And you go, you know what? Yeah, we're going to play it that way because Warren Sapp or Simian Rice or Derek Brooks or rendez barber. Somebody's going to make a play as we make them kind of go dink and dunk and forward in five yards. And that'll get us off the field or or at least they don't kick a touch down or get a touchdown and they kick a field goal. That that was one of the things New England. There was a master at for so long. We'd sit there watch games and go, man, the game's pretty even. But Bill and the deep bill, Bellic check the defense would go up. You're kicking a field goal. And then Tom Brady would get the ball and they were one of the few teams that could kind of do it anyway. They wanted 12 play 70 yards or make explosive plays, but they'd go down a score touchdown. You go damn the games even. It's just this team gets three. New England gets seven. This team gets three. New England gets seven. And it's 14 to six or it's 21 to nine. And there can be a lot of people in the game.

35:25And they're controlling the game because of that. And that in itself is another conversation about red zone offense and the ability to play that way. But yeah, those these are all big factors in football. Since that was 20 years ago, I did go back and refresh my memory the early days of the shoulders regime in Minnesota, 19 16 16 13 19 16 17 12. Yeah, yeah. So that's how 2006 unfolded with children with the West Coast ball control offense. And Mike Tomlin with the Tampa two. Let's force them to move the ball defense. Welcome everyone to Fanta in 60 a brand new show with me, John Fanta and my co host J Croucher. Join us as we bring the fan first energy to NBC sports. Now my new show is the place for understanding the week in sports. We'll talk big story lines viral moments and most importantly, we'll hear directly from you. The fans. It's going to be a great hand. I can't wait for you all to see it. Fanta in 60 airs Mondays at 6 p.m. Eastern on NBC sports now and NBC sports radio. See you there.

36:32It's fall in Jeep country and during the driving to fall sales event get a great deal on four by fours that refuse to be contained like Jeep Wrangler confidence built into every drive with the most awarded SUV ever Jeep Grand Cherokee and freedom that can't be denied with the open air freedom and Jeep gladiator. After 85 years, it's no surprise that Jeep became America's SUV brand get a great deal during the Jeep driving to fall sales event. Jeep is one more awards over its lifetime than any other SUV brand, Jeep and the Jeep Grill or registered trademarks of FC a U S LLC. Now one of the realities of coaching to Sean Watson is you are now managing a player who has had some incredible performances in the past 2017 through 2020. You have an opportunity to try to recapture some of the glory days that have passed him by. Can we bring them back? Well, one way to do that is to go back and study everything he did when he was with the Houston Texans and try to see what portions of that can be incorporated into his current game. So surely Todd Monkin as he tries to polish to Sean Watson into a high level starting quarterback. He has gone back and studied all of that film. Surely Todd Monkin has gone back and studied.

37:46All the time he has spent studying at film. I really to be honest, haven't looked at it to be honest only from afar. People say we had to look at it. Well, not really. I looked at it from afar when I was down the road, right, and crossover film or something. But I try to take everything at face value. What I see, right? Well, it doesn't matter what the player is. I think we owe that to our players. Guys that are on the roster. I want to go into it thinking every player we have is elite. And all they have to do is prove me right. But that's all they have to do. That's what I'm going to go into at the NFL roster. I expect them to play well and I just want them to prove me right. And so I really, I really looked at that. Different staff, different system. We'll let a play out. We'll see where it goes. Starting in a week from now.

38:47I don't know what it means to look at it from afar. Is he like in the cafeteria and it's playing on a TV screen on the other side of the room. And he's like, hey, what is that? Oh, I still Sean Watson film 2018 Houston, Texas. Oh, okay. I don't know what he means by looking at it from afar. But I also understand it. I set it up just for fun. Look, that was a different lifetime. Exactly. That's a different guy. Yeah. I don't care what he did in Houston. I'm dealing with this guy. I'm not dealing with that guy. I got to figure out what this player in front of me right now. What his skills and abilities will allow him to do and do those things. The biggest mistake I could make if I'm Todd Monkin is to try to make him into the player, the human, the total package that he was from 2017 through 2020. Because that guy don't work here no more. No, we got to make the most out of the guy that we currently have the age 30 to Sean Watson, not the age 22 to Sean Watson. Yeah, that's right.

39:47I think there's a misconception sometimes that every coach knows every player and football and they know everything about them. And they've gone back and watched the film of this. And it's just it's not that there's not enough time in the day to do all that. These guys are it's not like that always. So watching from afar is yeah, he watched a Sean Watson with the Houston Texas. And of course, when he was with Baltimore, he saw crossover film and saw the Sean Watson doing that there. But not everybody can I've told you a million times on this show. One of the reasons I think I got, you know, friends I keep in contact with in the NFL and the coaching is they like to check into me to go what's going on in the league, you know, I've only seen these teams this year. What's that team look like? What are you hearing about that? That's where I have a lot of conversations and text messaging. They can't keep all over all of this. I think back about Matthew Stafford when he got traded. I got dragged forever because I was like Matthew Stafford is one of the five or six best quarterbacks in football and everybody used to go, you're an asshole. Sims, they can't make the playoffs and Detroit and do all that and blah, blah, blah. I am an asshole, maybe. But what that's the thing in fairness to the critics, you are an ass. Thank you. Thank you. Right. But then it became oh, wait. Matthew Stafford might get traded. And I can't tell you how many people in the NFL at that time.

41:05Now we're going to watch his film and have heard me talk about him here with you or on my podcast and go, man, I heard you talk about Holy cow. You're right about Stafford. I didn't realize it was quite this good or like this. And so yeah, you can't keep track of everything. And so he knows what the Sean Watson looks like certainly. But this is a different guy and there's wasn't like in Houston. They were running some magic plays. It wasn't like, oh gosh, it was the magical place. Though we know even in then they had a good offense. They had deontry Hopkins. What was his best thing? Play making ability. We used to go, hey, he's got to stop playing every play like it's the last game in the Super Bowl. That was one of our things. So, you know, he's not capable of doing that anymore. He was magical back then. But yes, he's going to evaluate it for what it is right now. You're going to get a clean slate. That's the biggest thing. And there's nothing to be learned really from his little experience. He got in in Cleveland and got injured and do that. There's nothing you're going to look at and go, oh, well, he threw the five yard out route to the tight end pretty well there. Okay, they're they're going to find that out on their own through their own process.

42:15And let's not forget things that maybe made Dishon Watson ticker what he was good at five years ago to your point. He's a different guy now. He might not like some of those plays. He might like it a different way now. And so that's where he has to evaluate it for himself. And yeah, I think people are making a little bit bigger a deal of this than he should be. First four years in the NFL, he had three straight pro bowls. He didn't make it as a rookie. That was the year he tore his ACL halfway through the season. His last year in Houston was phenomenal. And it's hard to reconcile 4,823 passing yards, 33 touchdown passes, seven intercepts. And it's an average per attempt. Yeah. Of 8.9. That is cooking. Yep. If you're averaging 8.9 per attempt and a passer rating to the extent that anyone cares about that. And I do 112.4. It's a good snapshot of how efficient you're operating the passing game. But they were four and 12. That's the thing that.

43:18That doesn't make sense. You're 4 and 12 and your quarterback is putting up an MVP caliber season. So something was missing with those Texans. And then that was six years ago, but didn't play in 2021 because he didn't want to play for the Texans anymore. He was upset. Remember when they fired below Brian, they didn't consult with him about the next hire GM or head coach that drove a wedge in the situation. And then, uh oh. So here came this weird lawsuit. Oh, here came 25 more of these weird lawsuits. And that changed his perception and reality. And that guy from 2020 is just gone. Gone. He's just gone. Yeah. So you've got to. You've got to rebuild based upon what this guy can do six years later. And that's what Monkins doing. Yeah, that's right. And he, you know, to your point and what you're saying. He was so damn good. That 25 lawsuits and sitting out a year, still warranted. We're going to give him the greatest trade package and in contract in the history of football.

44:26I mean, I don't know. To Sean Watson was at a place where really he could have been or might have been one of these guys that just thrown one of the guys on the Mount Rushmore football right now that we talk about at the quarterback position, right? The big four. The big four you talk about anybody in football. It's kind of undisputed right now. I'm disputed and disputed with its, you know, Mahomes, Allen Lamar Jackson, a burrow. It's those four. And then we got some guys knocking at the door going, Hey, I might want to get in there this year. And we'll see. But Watson might have been if he continued the trajectory you were talking about, he could have been one of those guys where we go, gosh, we might have to knock one of those guys off Mount Rushmore and put him on there. And that's what it looked like he was. I mean, he was a perennial top five top six quarterback for me when I had to do my rankings and stuff like that. But yes, he's not the same guy to your point, Mike. Anymore, it's it's totally not the same guy in any way. When the 2018 season began, Watson was established in Mahomes was a curiosity. Yeah, you're right.

45:27Nobody knew how he was going to play. And everybody was expecting Watson to be already one of the best in the NFL before the ACL tear. He was not just odds on favorite to be rookie of the year. There was some MVP chatter about to show him Watson as a rookie. Here's an interesting stat. And I remember the last good game we saw from him when they went into Baltimore and beat the Ravens. And it was the moment where I thought, okay, maybe they are going to get a real return on this investment that was 2023 his second season. Yeah, he ultimately started six games that year before we found out after that game against the Ravens, he had like a break in his socket of his shoulder and didn't play again that year. Six starts, Chris, without looking it up. Yeah. What was his record in six starts in 2023?

46:28I feel like that was a big game and upset. I'm going to say two and four. In 2023, yeah, in six starts, the Cleveland Browns under the Shaw Watson were five and one damn, were they really? I'm looking at it and I don't believe it, but I have no reason to doubt the folks at pro football reference.com with the hyphens between the pro and the football and the reference. Very good resource. Lot of good information. There's statistically about all players, teams, seasons, et cetera. Five and one, they were for God of that. And so that wasn't all that long ago. No, it was not halfway to what he did in Houston the last season there, but even after that, right, we saw seven games in 2024. They were one in six in seven starts under Watson in 2024. So that balances it out. But then the 20 kill is tendon and it got torn again.

47:32And we didn't see him at all last year. And, you know, look, I'm not surprised that this is where they are. I'm not. I just think from a fan relations standpoint, they need to shock the Jaguars. They need to stick it to Baker Mayfield who's going to be trying to stick it to the Browns unlike he's ever tried to stick it to any team in his life. And he may, he may plant, you know, an Oklahoma flag when they play the team from Ohio again, if he beats the Browns. I mean, that's going to be one that he's trying for with all his might. But they pull that off. Then who knows? And I don't know. Look, Munkin talks like a guy who thinks he's got something into Sean Watson. And he's the one of the best position to make the decision. So we just sit back and we, we wait and see and we anticipate the explosive plays. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. That's right. I mean, it was to Sean Watson's got a chance to silence everything here.

48:34Munkin is, I think an offensive genius. I love my Todd Munkin system. So I think he's going to give him some chances to succeed. They got some young receivers as we know. It's a new online. But there is potential there. But we're going to see what the Sean Watson's about. I'm still I'm still wrapping my head around the, the five and one you talked about there. Because I'm like, now you got me all interested. And I'm like, man, I really don't remember that. So what he must have missed games because that Baltimore game we're talking about was week 10. So he had missed some games during that period as well. We're flaccos. Yes, he must have been out. Right. So that's just an interesting year there regardless. They didn't have flaccos then. They got go then flaccos and shot until November. Yeah. So it was a little later in the year. Okay. So yeah. So they went back and forth. Let's see who the hell was it. I can't remember that. There we go. I got it right here. I got it right here. I got here. They beat the Bengals to start the season 24 to three, which is amazing when you think about it because they have got named Joe burrow.

49:35Playing quarterback was he available week one. That was. This is the start of the Cleveland gym sports defense where we started to go. Holy crap. They're special. Right. So that was two. Yeah. So they beat the Bengals. They lose to the Steelers 26 to 22. They thumped the Titans 27 to three. They lost to the Ravens. They were two and two at the buy after the buy. That's when it got interesting. Upset of the 49ers. They beat the Colts. They barely lost to the Seahawks to go four and three. They shut out the Cardinals 27 nothing beating the Ravens 33 to 31. Move them to six and three. That was the last game that. That Deshaun Watson played that year. Yep. And so somebody else went. Oh, and two of the three losses. Somebody else lost those. They had like PJ Walker and Dorian Thompson. Rock. Yeah. Yeah. It was PJ Walker, I think. And Dorian Thompson Robinson. I think those were the two as I'm kind of looking here. And now I'm starting to remember this. But yeah, it is interesting. And hopefully they can regain that magic.

50:40They need Watson to regain the magic on the football field and off the football field. One of the things that was so great about him that we talked about before is his charisma and aura and all that. He was one of those guys in Houston where hey, we got him. We got a chance today. That's what kind of football player he was. But that magic is gone. And it's been gone for a long time. And maybe monk and can reignite it. Even with PJ Walker. It took a touchdown pass from Chino Smith to Jackson Smith and Jigba with 38 seconds left for the Seahawks to beat the Browns in Seattle 24 to 20. So that Browns team. Yeah. Hey, that Browns team was good. Well, that was the start of that. Yeah, that was the year they lost the seat. Just proud of the wild card game right there. You know that that was where that was where my phrase of like their defense is so good. They might be able to win the game by themselves. I mean, that was really where it started was that team. But then they played it too aggressive and CJ Stroud bombs away kind of got out on them on them early. And that was it.

51:50Speaking of CJ Stroud, he is one of three top five quarterbacks from the class of 2023 who are still waiting for the second contract. It could say the GM the Texans had something to say about that yesterday. You will hear it next with our reaction on this Wednesday edition of PFT Live. Welcome everyone to Fanta in 60 a brand new show with me John Fanta and my co host Jay Croucher join us as we bring the fan first energy to NBC sports. Now my new show is the place for understanding the week in sports. We'll talk big story lines viral moments and most importantly we'll hear directly from you. The fans is going to be a great hand. I can't wait for you all to see it. Fanta in 60 years Mondays at 6 p.m. Eastern on NBC sports now and NBC sports radio. See you there.