Top 10 Can-Am Cars | Autosport Retro

0:00This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. For all sport, the common awesome magazine, I'm Kevin Turner and this is the All Sport Top 10. We've got something a bit different for this week's Top 10 and indeed next week's we're having a small mini series of two episodes because 60 years ago this week one of the greatest motorsport categories began in Montremblant. It was the 1966 Canadian American Challenge Cup or Cannan as it's more widely known and we thought that was a good excuse to do a couple of Top 10 lists. The Top 10 cars and the Top 10 drives and we're going to start with the cars because I think as we'll get to the Cannan was really more about the cars and joining me to go through this list and hopefully have a bit of fun with cars that were quicker than their F1 counterparts a lot of the time is journalist author all around motorsport guru Damien Smith you looking forward to this one. Hi I'm Kevin. Can you tell I'm confused about this one? I can know you're excited and so am I it's good to be on this subject.

1:03Yeah well what does Cannan mean to you before we get into the list what's what do you mean is it conjure up? Cars first I agree with you big grids of these fantastic sports races, wedge-shaped on terrific circuits that are not extremely dangerous by modern standards. Yeah yeah color noise noise a big one yeah. Big bangers big name drivers driving them wings a lot you know it was it was kind of pioneering territory wasn't it it was you know breaking breaking ground territory. Yeah that's a good way of putting it so for those that don't knows they weren't really any when it started in 1966 it was based on the group 7 regulations for basically a big bang sports cars but the rules were pretty sparse that was the whole point it was sort of a do anything you like so long as it was a 2 c to sports car essentially to start with obviously there were some safety safety features such as they were in the in the mid 1960s but it did mean that we got quicker and quicker sports cars which were in 1966 and 1974 which is

2:03what we're looking at now Cannan did come back in a different form later on we're not talking about this is these are the not the recloath form of 5,000 cars that we saw in 70s and 80s so yeah sometimes these cars were quicker sometimes substantially quicker than the F1 machinery of the day and they were priced with a big prize money on offer as well I think you could earn more in Cannan doing half a dozen Cannan races you could two or three seasons have gone pre-racing those days yeah I mean we'll get on to that that's one of the subjects I think we'll come back to a couple of times in these two episodes there's no doubt money was a draw and these teams could could earn a lot of wedge by producing their wedge shaped yeah although quite interestingly I've been reading quite a lot about this for most of the year I've been prepping for this reading various things and I think McLean which is the most dominant constructs of during the year I spent a lot more money than they ever one and they won most of it so yeah so it gives you some idea but of course there was sponsorship that came in so it's not quite as straightforward as that was big prize money at time when that wasn't really a thing and of course it was the first sort of

3:06sports car club of America one of their first steps into out of amateur interprofessional it's quite a big quite a big thing for them to go for so well let's get into this so looking at looking at cars this is quite similar to other top 10s are done it's obviously their level of excess leaveness success your position they face impact on the series and I think for cars like this it's got to be an element of an X factor as well because these are some of the coolest coolest race cars that have raised the track of them they's got to be a bit of aesthetics come into this one yes which as does innovation and there's one car that was very innovative but one of the ugliest things I've seen didn't make this but we will talk about right well okay you ready to go let's go right so number 10 it's the Shadow DN 4 now this is Tony Southgate design which people are forming on people be familiar with Tony Southgate and of course Shadow was in F1 during this during the 1974 season when Shadow won Cannan four wins four polls five fastest laps should say that's only from five races it was very much shrinking by then I put it I mean

4:09dominant car in its in its season down in but by it was really the championship was in decline by this point this is the last season before it dies altogether yes so they did you know the opposition was weak but who cares I mean just if you're watching this podcast you just have a look at the picture of Jackie Oliver there you know it's just the lines are perfect and you know I think the interesting thing is these these things are big wins I was talking to Jackie Oliver last year about doing a story on a low at T 17 Mark 3 B the coupé in the world sports culture was you willing to just start building again indeed yeah and he was saying the thing that he noticed about that car was it's lack of downforce because he was used to driving in Cannan he'd been driving in Cannan since sort of 69 and the downforce they had with these cars was immense you know so he it was giving drivers a bit of a taste of what was to come actually in Formula 1 in terms of

5:11you know they were ahead of their game they they had more downforce and four one cars yeah we'll see some the cars some a further up this list they're actually ahead of the ahead of F1 in terms of the technology they were bringing in just to give you a little bit more on the on the shadow before we move on I mean shadow had been in the chance at a while did struggled to finish races they sort of been knocking on the door of McLaren Porsche but never quite quite got that win and then obviously they got this they got this season of domination with Jack Oliver and George Fulmer 8.1 liter Chevrolet engine that's going to get quite normal as this podcast goes on video goes on for me gets a little bit of extra credibility because if you look at if you look at the championship table 13 the points were skewed to Patrick and McLaren in 20 which was two years old and Bob Nagel in a three-year-old loader was next so the opposition was quite low yeah but Brian Redmond did rock up in the Penske Portion RSM 30 which was we'll get to was essentially outlawed but on fuel restrictions this is when the restrictions started to come into Canaan but it was at Milo Hio they were able to get it down to the fuel consumption and he beat

6:16the two shadows to pole and there was a there was a three-way fight for the winners actually a bit of footage I found a bit of a footage of it because Fulmer and Oliver didn't like each other no you can quite tell there's quite a lot of tension and and I'd read in the old sport report that Fulmer's fear is after they clashed and then I found the footage as a very optimistic move on a teammate that you that you know doesn't like you yeah it was sort of all coming down the inside but it's not really enough and Jack and I just read nope yeah yeah and spun off and then the end Redmond fell back with some some tire issues as well after little moments so the shadow did beat the Porsche even though it was rather new to it for that particular race I gave a bonus point for that yeah also very pleasing this summer to see a shadow starring again at the Goodle Festival Speed yes the DN4 was there and Hillclimb Alexander was attending the quickest time of the weekend yeah quite something you know you wouldn't think it was a suitable Hillclimb car would you no I guess you know the Roman Dumas is in this world and all the modern machinery that was you know

7:18contending for the top times up the hill and there was the shadow I think you know one the heart of every everyone and anyone who obviously lots of people like we've known that car but lots of people won't have done and said what the hell is that must have been quite something to see that and I think it's a good example of that when you've got a really big cool powerful sports car just watching one being doing properly on its own it's cool yeah even before you get into the wheel to wheel racing they just now I think we'll get to that can and didn't always have the best races there weren't that many great this is not formal a forward wheel to wheel slipstream and cars passing each other and that's not this is about and we should give a shout out to Don Nichols of course the founder of the shadow who you know Jackie Oliver had a difficult end to his association with with Don but during this era he gave him a new lease of life as a driver gave him the chance to experience team management and drive these wonderful cars with these wonderful black liverys with the EOP let free we should say as well actually says it on there as well so they were

8:20ahead of the game on that as well yeah and it was like a last tariff for Jackie in terms of his driving career yes was it so isn't it yeah yeah well so there we go the number 10 the shadow DN4 the 1974 title winner number nine in many ways shouldn't be ahead of the shadow the shaperow 2e had one win two poles it actually tops practice sessions four times but for reasons I won't go into because they're ridiculous it only got the two poles two fastest laps didn't score a title now I really wanted to put the 2j soccer car in because it was a ridiculous innovation eight years ahead of Gordon Murray's Brown Beatiful 6b fan car everyone members I'll put it in the PC if it held with 1.8 seconds quicker in qualifying than the rest of the Laguna Saker which was a one minute that happened at the time quickest area when but it just it had basically a second engine yeah running the fans to suck the air out and they never really got it working probably before it was it was banned no

9:25plus it is bloody ugly it is horrible looking horrible this however I don't think it is no is lovely and swimpy yeah it was Tim Hall's favourite as well yes so that's a good reason to have it yeah and it was so the innovative bits on that this is 1966 remember so this is a good couple years before high wings sprouting in F1 and if you look side radiators as well yeah way ahead of Colin Chapman doing on the load 72 and Gordon Copic doing it on the McLaren M16 Indy car so Jim Hall I think the idea is he had in the 60s I mean he really he probably come up comes up with more innovations in that 5 6 7 the appear with and almost anyone else including Chapman probably I think I think he influenced Chapman there's no there's no getting around it and I remember talking to Adrian Newy a couple years ago about his influences and obviously Chapman was a huge influence on Adrian Newy but he also he named Check Jim Hall and said you know what Jim Hall was doing in sports car racing can um was you know a lot of the innovations that are now taken for granted that's where they

10:27came from you know and as you say the side radiators thing are things a huge thing with this car particularly that it became the norm but not for another no another four years you know so he was he was just trying things and this was the beauty of cana am anyone who covered cana am watched it experienced it in period they talk about this freedom which they took for granted at the time I guess but with hindsight you realize you know we're so used to restrictions in motor racing for good reason you know for for for for money financial reasons for safety all these things that have come up over the years but in those days all bets were off with cana am and anything went pretty much well I kind of wish for like this eight years of cana am is almost the tipping point or it forces a couple of tipping points the fan car that does get does get banned and then we'll get to it later but turbocharging there were certain things that they started to peg back so by 1974 it wasn't really a no-holds barred anything goes it was well anything goes except you've got to hit this fuel restriction and you can't have a sucker car and so it was people

11:32like Jim Hall that was was pushing it forward I mean to say only only that one win but Phil Hill did go into the season finale with a shot at the title and it was I'm Bruce McClan reckoned it was it was probably the best car but they was just one of those things where as you often get with a car that's got lots of innovation on it there's lots of little niggly things the wings didn't always work because they were the that because they're automatic gearboxes as well yeah so you could use the the left pedal was to control the control the wing you know DRS basically yeah a movable arrow six the years ago yeah so yeah I just thought a fantastic car it did originally have the 5.4 liter Chevy V8 in it and they put a big block seven liter and called it the 2G and it was a fun run again for its copies and in fact Jim Hall's career was ended in in one of the two ease that was fitted with the big engine in 68 finale which is a big shot yeah I was just say Shaperale didn't win all that much they won one can am race they won two two international yeah races like I was it nerve-racking 66 I think you know we're 60 with a 2D yeah and then

12:33the 67 BOAC I would have a brand with a 2F my dad was there that one that's quite cool is yeah yeah and so anyway Shaperale this is like a massive score in the cool so anyway I'm I'm I'm getting you're not going to disagree with it being ahead of the shadow no I think it should be ahead of the shadow yeah yeah you should have it I think you know Jim Hall's chap around this is cool you are better yeah absolutely excellent right number eight first of them are Clarence and Clarence M8 and now the McClarence were quite difficult to rank because they dominated the championship from 1967 until 1971 and this is the 1968 car 4 win 6 poles 3 fastest laps it was a bit of an improvement over the M6A which we'll get to later again like Shaperale they just whacked it the early days of cal Am I just put bigger and bigger engines yeah bigger and bigger Chevy's usually the falls didn't tend to be quite so competitive or reliable and I struggled to now where to put

13:35it because it was it was the first yeah it was one of the it was the first of the M8s it did continue McClarence domination but I didn't think it was quite as groundbreaking as the M6 had been no and it did lose a couple of it six races yeah now okay one of those one's miles of McClarence well yes that's true yeah we should say one of them was won by Mark Donney here in in the car we'll get to shortly and the other one was won by Dan one B on the John Cannon's ridiculous win a Laguna Sake on Farge Stone reign ties it was called by motorsport it was called the world's fastest slice of double Gloucester which were quite nice that is quite good isn't it also quite the fact that he was Gordon Cuppock and Joe Marquat who just joined McClaren um who shared responsibility for the car uh and apparently they took one to the front and one to the back which I quite like the idea or Cuppock had the harder part which was the back with a stressed member engine so again yeah this is obviously F1 was going that

14:36way by this time by 68 but McClaren will believe the way in Cannon with it as well um so technical innovation again um so yeah I think I think this is a good the ranking of the McClarence in this list will come back to all further on but I think um you're quite right this is probably the least important yeah in terms of our top 10 but it's still fabulous car well yes fabulous things are successful yeah we have only two one twos only only two one twos that was six races which was we come to later yeah um it's relatively low compared to it's also very closely related to a car that's much higher up this list so uh yeah it's only eight but it's it's it's still mega we're into the first and the mega cars I suppose really in that with regard yeah so number seven the low latissimetry six wins four poles three fastest laps and of course that inaugural title or John Cirties um and also I put it in here partly because he had not quite the level of the 956 but for a

15:37watt for a couple of years it was one of the main stays of the grid it was one of the cars that really uh your people ran four engines in it and gurney one with the four engine yeah uh it was it it was a you know run by several different drivers several different teams so it really provided the meat if you like not everyone could be shaper-out no so it kind of was quite important for grids and it also won you know first championship yeah and it predated cana because obviously racing in 65 and it came out of the GT40 so all the the learnings that Eric Broady had gone through with with that project went into this car and yeah always I mean with the picture we've got here so it was that gurney and that marry you I'm not sure that's yeah that's chasing that yeah marry and dress you drove it jockey Stewart drove them George Fulmer Ponyley Jones it really was it was the car but it's always a associate with certain that's the guy I mean he was he was almost killed in one in 65 and came back in 66 split before our e in terms of

16:45the famous fallout at the moment 66 and then went in one the the inaugural cana am championship for which he he won more prize money than he did won if he'd if he'd won all the grand preys in 66 yeah yeah that was that was that was a thing this this is why the the brits and the Europeans were drawn to it because they could earn big big bucks I mean interestingly he almost gave up in the season because although one the first race yeah the cup of technical problems and the clash I think and no one really stamped their authority on the championship and Betty kept going obviously you know took the three wins out of the six events one one the finale to wrap up the championship one another one in 67 which would be the last and on McLaren win for quite some time if you could choose then what if you could have a T70 would you have one of the original cana am open top sports races or do you have a mark mark 3b I'd have the the penski blue mark 3b data in the car okay probably yeah what about you I'm I'm edging towards maybe a dona

17:51QT 70 that's the T70 spider yeah spider I mean obviously being a dang Ernie fan I should go for the Gernie car yeah but that would have a forward engine and that did give him an awful lot of yeah an awful lot of problems he did get the one win with it but you're happy with the T70 the important car for Lola obviously and in the foundation of cana am it was the first champion car and yeah as you say it was it was a really important car in terms of support for grids because lots of people ran them and different engine configurations and lots of drivers drove them so very important car for the series so it was number seven Lola T70 in for top six number six is the McLaren M8D nine wins seven polls seven fastest laps and the title with any harm in 1970 and when I first drafted this list I had this higher and I think when you think cana am McLaren I think that yeah I think the M8D with that with the wedgie with the you know

18:52the built in rear wing at the back yeah but looking into it looking into it more that I look quite a few problems with it and it's sort of it also it's the it's the McLaren the little Porsche 908 winner cana am race that's got got out against it Tony Dean one of those crazy yeah that's right that crazy races and and Pete Lines who covered cana am for all sport before he covered gone pre racing basically just got it as a while the cars are not perfect they are the best cars which was a bit of a change of tone from the previous couple years whether they just sort of looked perfect well we'll get to about 1969 literally was perfect yeah so it seems a bit harsh given the one nine race they're quite a few engine problems with it they listed backwards and forwards between the seven point six leads from the the smaller capacity engine while they worked on it I mean it is all circles we should say the car that Bruce McLaren was killed in I was about to say yes I don't know whether you should hold that against it or not you can't hold it against the car but it's obviously that's always going to be the associations there so you know June

19:54the 2nd 1970 testing at Goodwood the back bodywork came off as he was going through the king on the Levant straight which isn't very straight in the king and yeah that's when he crashed and hit the embankment around the marshes post well it was very unlucky actually because we've seen pictures of the the time marks and if you've gone either side he might have got away with it but it was straight in wasn't it yeah so and but we've got to give credit to the team under Teddy Mayer and of course Denny Holm he not only had to pick the team up after that he was also suffering from horrendous hand burns yes yeah he's in theapolis 500 incident there's so much around this car you know the space of time between its debut from the first round of canam was June 14th yeah Bruce died on June 2nd amazing isn't it a Mossport as you say Denny with his bandages well a hero you know yeah incredible bravery this team you know could have folded there and then

20:57with their founder lost on the pounder they're all devastating in grief because Bruce was obviously not only the team founder he was extremely popular and you know everyone loved working for him and then it also brought Dan Gurney back into the McLaren frame obviously he came back to help the team out as well I'm drove for the team before Peter Gethan stepped in so I'm on a couple of races Gurney as well first to indeed indeed so pretty special season and then you know Denny winning another championship to perfect way to pay tribute to his old mate yeah absolutely so as you say wrapped up with lots of stories are you happy with it with it sick they're just the almost hard and as that the trials and tribulations you could say are four against it really there's so many good McLaren's this era yeah and there's there's McLaren's that are in this list because you know you you could do a full top 10 of McLaren's probably pretty pretty nearly yeah so no I think I think that's probably the right decision I was looking at this and trying to think would

22:01I change the order and I know I think I think this is probably the right place to put it given the other cars we're going to talk about I was going to say it really says more for the cars that are ahead of it rather than the they're made to itself I mean as I say I think that's so that's kind of your archetypal car I think the orange wedge I think so yeah right well let's go to the number five which is another McLaren then McLaren M6A five wins five polls six fastest laps and the 1967 title I should also say that the m6b1 race and got a far-stab as well there was some debate as to whether the Penske car was actually one of the works cars from the airport or whether it's an m6b customer car I think it was an m6a that the Penske then modified so it kind of became the m6b anyway yeah so I've I thought I should just cover that off but this is the car that started McLaren's domination started the Bruce Denyshone yeah absolutely well yes before this they weren't even orange no they were red weren't they exactly orange and this this kind of sets the template I think for the McLaren approach to Cannan 2000 miles of testing but for lots of it a good

23:06wood before they rock up and they have just completely moved the goalposts they smash all the 60s of the Galapagos to smear the reins and so even though other people have gone gone a quick I'll give you a give the example the road America season opener Bruce was point one of a second fast in Denyshone with one two on the grid at 1.8 seconds faster than Dan Gernie and the Lola so they just gone yeah move the game on and they pretty much did that all year yeah and McLaren Orange apparently came from Teddy Mayor and it was simply to make him stand out on TV but TV was black and white for most of the time in the 60s so I guess in American Teddy Mayor would have been would have been I think there's a similar story about the Transamm fault mustangs in 1970 because they went from that sort of white black and red yeah to actually not as attractive in Orange is the McLaren one yeah and it was for the same like I think they're looking through magazines it doesn't stand out yeah make it Orange but you think about actually back then in terms of the UK audience there only sort of time they'd get to see Cannan cars really would have been through the pages of

24:10autosport and and you're a picture in motorsport because it was you know it was so far away it was it was really exotic yeah and the Cannan cars were obviously used to seeing them a good one these days but they didn't come over here well group seven that kind of died in Europe it was almost dying in Europe as it then got picked up in yeah in in Cannan it was it's only an offshoot all of its own and that's why I think everyone's got this these four part of the reason they've got the four memories for it yeah yeah absolutely a home probably this is a bit of a theme that perhaps get to in the driver list but home probably should have won the championship he's slightly got got the worst and bad luck and had his so this is a 5.9 liter Chevy V8 and his one failed which actually gave John 30s the final T70 win at the season finale but also meant the Bruce McLaren became champion but home said that you could toss it around like a single seat it is so well balanced and well set up and Bruce McLaren himself had done some of the design work and all the test drive in pretty much so it was you know then any home coming in is

25:11a yeah a quite experienced driver was basically said leave it as it is yeah so this was an important car for Cannan but it was a really vital car for McLaren yeah because it was their first real winner in terms of winning a championship and giving them the experience they needed to lead and win races which they hadn't really had in Formula One okay the you know Robin Hood's M7 uh you know had some success in in Formula One but it was this was where the foundation of McLaren was really set always then yeah yeah I think that's fair and also from a commercial point of view the Trojan Pajod's that Trojan produced M6B was predictably a popular yeah popular car that the then sold and filled grids in 1968 year after I think the customer car element is really important here that it was a place that the manufacturers like McLaren like Lola could see they could sell cars they could make make money and and it was a production line for them either and that was

26:18a really important part and it's something that's still you know in modern motorsport we don't see so much of these days but in those days these these constructors they needed to sell cars they needed sell models yeah absolutely so the next car in our list would you move this would you move the M6A ahead on the basis of its I kept it behind because of the thought level of opposition for the next car we're going to talk about was probably a bit higher yeah but this is this is more important in the sense of probably McLaren history so I wasn't sure which way around to put them I was a bit torn actually um because uh you were saying about the um M8D being the ultimate McLaren tells what you think of but the next one for me is also yeah they're very very similar okay we're very close so okay well we'll get on to the next one should you say by the way that of course this like you said about the M8A the M6A was a monococ or semi monococ so you're thinking this is 67 that's really only when that's not you big to see an F1 yeah not all really are they're really

27:18ahead of the cutting edge so lots of big I think this is a big car the M6A number four the McLaren M8F nine wins eight polls nine fastest laps and the 1971 title in the hands of Peter Rebson that's why I always think of M8F was yeah it's the F all the D's yeah I think yeah I mean really it's in a way in many ways it is a sort of a tidied up yeah version slight there's a few arrow tweaks that was the decision to go with this sort of integrated wing with with those really characteristic blickups was a band high high wings eventually in 69 after Formula 1 had I think yes I think they let them carry on to the other cities and carry on yeah so um they did eventually band them so they had to find another solution which is it's a much tidier solution than those here there's a tidier solution yeah yeah I mean I think I do like seeing the high wings but maybe that's because they are not full because they're around for such short time this is this is a

28:20need to need to car isn't it yeah now I put it up here because I think it adds some decent opposition to M8F you had a Karl Hartz run low for Jackie Stewart and he did win a couple of races and yeah he was the best driver in the world at this point I don't think he can be any doubt yeah 1971 Joseph it was there an unblown Porsche there were occasional cameos from shadow and Ferrari so I mean we're only talking about Ferrari they sort of dipped in that of cab and yeah yeah unsuccessfully unsuccessful not a Ferrari in this list and I did wonder whether that should be corrected but actually when I looked at what the cars you had in the list there's nothing there that deserved to be knocked out never won anything they didn't win anything yeah I mean in 69 we'll get to I mean Chris Aiman was the closest thing to McLaren rival yeah but if you read the reports or even so because obviously British McLaren used to do the from the cockpit yeah columns in all sports yeah they're just playing with him yeah not even that you know Chris Aiman is actually flat-checking the Ferrari yeah and Bruce and Denny are kind of yeah or hang around for a bit good start for you so M8's in total all different times over the years 32 wins from 37 races

29:26it's ridiculous 19 in succession yeah this is the this is domination that's between the 3067 winning the Tony Dean ludicrous race in 1970 I think yeah yeah yeah so the M8 F I mean Gordon Copic had was evolving the design of this lectern the wheelbase bit of a stronger monocot few error improvements as we talked about the Chevy V8 now beyond eight litres I was vague about that because they had reading the reports of the day and I read a report of every single canad race in this era there a bit oh well this week we think we've got the 8.3 in but Peter might have the 8.1 in but we might swap it before the race and it is which engines you're running yeah yeah so I tried I was that I wasn't being vague because I couldn't be born to look up it was the opposite it was just too much information I think they were normally 8.1's and then 8.3's yeah I think is where we're at with them and the first North American champion yes so the series have been going since 66 but it wasn't until 71 that we had an North American champion in Rebson and what's

30:31interesting about this as well because obviously for the driver list I was having to try and compare Rebson and Holm but Pete lines it makes a point of saying they were hardly ever on track with the same spec cars so they're almost developing too so for example the brakes went inboard okay for the M8 F and Holm hated it because it's like well if the drive shaft goes I've got no braking which is exactly what happened to him mid-ohio yeah so when they rebuilt that car we had a couple of brakes so then that's just one example they're awfully running different engines and all sorts so in board breaks were the thing of the time yes and all was the fact no and you know it contributed to Yock and Rince Monser and Jackie Stewart when he raced the the Lola T260 which isn't in this list but in this season one two races but that car originally had inboard breaks and he sat in it for the first time for the seed fitting went nope nope I'm not doing it not having that because obviously his friend Rince had just recently been killed so it was a bit of a thing wasn't

31:33it it's very much of that time yes yeah absolutely yeah we should say I mean the Lola T260 did manage to manage to beat the M8 F a couple of times but I would suggest that that was only because of who was driving it I mean Jackie Stewart I think it's described it as the worst car he ever drove and he did drive the BRM-H16 so he must have been pretty pretty bad not one I've ever had brought these best probably we'll come back to that car when we talk about the drivers in the next show but yeah Patrick Head was a junior designer right oh really yeah yeah we should say before we leave the M8 F it's one of the few cars on this list that then won the following year right because the young American racing team that's a name isn't it the yacht yeah that's yacht got the revs and car sister cars the one on the screen at the moment and Fraswell severed drove it and reading the reports of him in 72 he really gave it some yeah he was very entertaining and he got his just you know just reward at Donnie Brook when the turbo porches and the works of plans all hit trouble and he came through to win so that's another lovely element of canner was all these cameos yes these great drivers

32:37who who dip in and out dip in and I'll earn some money and every now and again some like sever gets a win you know that's terrific and some of the cars were awful they're I'm married and dressy driving the honker yeah awful yeah awful 15 seconds off the pace doesn't sound quick absolutely rocky and this is a straight line you should have known from the name it's a good idea so yeah yeah yeah absolutely so I'm also made the point that's probably the quickest it's probably the quickest canner canner can I see an historic racing yeah M8 F it's probably yulting it the Chevy V8 really does not want to really race it the shadows do they so no so there we go we saw them they were revived in the 80s and 90s yes canner racing wasn't there but a lot of the original cars obviously didn't survive the year or they they were they morphed into other things but there was a lot of great work they went in by ex-mechanical people making essentially replicas but but perfectly formed replicas so good on them for for for reviving canner because it was it was one of those things when I was a kid growing up when you saw a canner car you had to sort of steal yourself because the

33:38noise was not amazing there was one silicent classic I think it was the old Abbey the left-hand kink and the historic cars were allowed to do the keepings to that little chicane F1 cars that to do and I think it was a maybe an M8 F and an M8D at the front of that field it was coming we was driving out they absolutely thundered past shaking the ground I think I wouldn't want to be head into bridge corner in one of those hundred god knows what was doing when it came past I'm 60 I guess yeah let's get into the top three which are suspects is where we're going to start having arguments yeah number three the Portion Armored 710 eight wind six poles fire funks its laps the 1972 title in the hands of George for George former and this is turbocharged pioneering innovation and that and finally ended them a clown run I think I think there's any argument you can't say it's not a significant canner car is it a pretty one no definitely not although quite awesome looking

34:39I wouldn't say it's pretty no I'm intimidating and yes impressive yeah yeah and they had a had a hell of a had a hell of a time I would recommend anyone reading what don't he's unfair advantage anyway with a story about getting this thing to work he was battered and forwards between American and Germany Vysac because start with Portion didn't understand about the need for downforce because they were coming from Moulson low you know low track coefficient stuff yeah and he had to persuade them to put wings on and all sorts and then they couldn't get the turbo to even fire up and it's just weeks before the first race they were like we're not going to we're not going to be ready in time so it was it was all very late in the day and then of course he had his enormous crash in testing how the second race and former had to step in so a lot of you're saying about the air mate D an incredible sort of story all around it really yeah yeah and it gave a new lease of life to the 917 Porsche which everyone loves 917 and but in turbocharged form so in terms of turbocharging really significant car in terms of where motor racing and the

35:44road car industry actually was going to go in through the 70s and into the 80s again ahead of its yeah I always just I'd I'd all feel like 1972 is really the only time you get two proper works teams going at it you can have yeah that's fair feel like McLaren with this the established you know top dog with the M20 which moved things on for them side radiators in the front wing moveable front wing and all that sort of stuff yeah versus the Norman 710 history records that McLaren with thrash but actually I'm doing I'm going to do a piece on 917 to get that season okay it was closer than it looks yeah if McLaren had dialed down a little they just got a bit obsessed with chasing the power output of the Porsche which they were never going to get they've just kind of blowchef his up yeah if they dial it back a little bit they actually had enough performance for Porsche having problems were they sent scurrying away by Porsche by the by the the you know the fact that they were going to get beaten or was it that they wanted to go in decar racing I think it was that they were sent because they were really kind of there weren't they

36:47yeah I guess they are yeah um I mean I guess it's you could say it's no coincidence that they won their first F1 World title is N-500 after they'd stopped with Cannam yeah because there could be an argument it was a distraction from the yeah well I think it was the Porsche's yeah they'd carried on yeah got happy and they did talk about turbo turbo charging the Chevy several people tried to turbo charge it several day and turns out it was quite difficult yeah yeah yeah and so Porsche was kind of left was the last man's standing me so it's the car that saw off the McLaren really yeah I thought it had to be pretty high on this list yeah for that I will give you that yeah all right so you're arguing I'm going to come further up this list then are you keeping your powder dry I'm keep my powder dry okay lovely all right so there's an R1 710 oh I should say 9.3 liter Chevy they're stuffed in Poln's car for the sea they knew they were leaving Cannam I think well that wasn't out quite late and they tried to sign Jackie Stewart they did the Clarence had Jackie Stewart lined up I think you didn't contested the M20 yeah

37:53but he was ill that was when he clashed with his dear Dean Alsa yeah and you know also I think after his lowler experience not key he said I would he'd only go back to Calamhe put us in the McLaren yeah which is where that comes back to him very enough but in the end of course it was Rebson that that carried on which seemed fair enough given me what was the rating champion yeah but yeah they gave Holman 9.3 liter Chevy for qualifying the Riverside finale and he got within point three of a second of former but obviously they then put a more sensible sort of buy sense one of them so you only 8.3 liter yeah so there we go that's number three number two the McLaren M8B they think the McLaren MP4 4 was good in 1988 huh it lost a race rubbish the M8B 11 times from 11 races took 11 polls 10 fastest laps it also took eight one-two's so this is this is the pinnacle and the Clarence can and time I think

38:54when everything was stupid they basically perfected everything obviously they've effectively knitted the rear wing idea of Shaparow got it perfected done the testing it is essentially the M8A with some tidying up a little bit more power six on the 30-breakhawls power and it was so good I mean this is this is peak Bruce and Danny show isn't it it is so there's you know with the partnership with you can see on this picture if you're looking at it on YouTube or watching this podcast Reynolds aluminum or aluminum over here. Aluminium please. Although it does say aluminum yeah yeah that's it's come on we're in yeah aluminum yeah aluminum but yeah Bruce won six times Danny 95 so this was one of Bruce's well yeah his last jump trip on. And then it wasn't meant to happen because the whole idea was that because they took it in turns I mean they could basically decide who won they admitted to sort of messing around playing with each other messing around with Chris Amin's Ferrari because he was the one

39:54that got close as when he did rock up but what was supposed to happen in the season finale was that Bruce was supposed to win and Danny was supposed to finish seconds and clicks the championship but he had a rare failure so Bruce sort of won the championship by accident yeah that was pretty much but they just were a great partnership I think Danny was happy to let Bruce do the development work and get the car sorted and Bruce is happy to let Danny think that he was the quicker driver which I think he was in races qualifying over even but in the races I think Danny usually had a little bit of edgy feet if he really needed it but one of my favorite motorsport stories involves this car you guess you guess guess which one it is so they had two cars and now the third spare car was used to pee everyone else off because all the other teams could barely get a spare engine never mind an entire car sat there not being used and Michigan they thought we could have that give that a run out oh Danny's not really doing anything we're here the McLeagle yes that's it yeah which is in practice which Bruce was always surprised didn't go better he's hard don't understand why Danny's car doesn't better yeah but yeah he did break a lot

40:58I think we're saving a driven it as well I think and I think Jack Bradham might have driven it at some point anyway go any ended up starting at the back of the field and sorted through up to third and then followed followed Bruce and Danny over the line yeah just over a second covered the three of them in a one two three with everyone else a lap behind yeah I don't think that can be um you can't really get much more done with that that is rubbing it in in the extreme you mentioned Danny had the problem there which let Bruce win the championship so only four non-finishes that season and a total earnings of $305,000 which in 1969 was a hell of a lot of money they might actually have made money that year they might have won so much they might actually have made some money but also just I mean you know breaking lap records it smashed them everywhere everywhere it went and because of a sea that as you as you mentioned the high winds were banned for 1970 most of the records weren't broken in 70 some of them actually weren't broken until the turbos came along it was that good and they were quicker than the they were quicker than the F1 cars so at Watkins

42:04Glen both Bruce McLaren's pole lap and Danny Harmore's fastest lap would go unbeaten when the Grand Prix arrived later in the year and even survived the 1970 race as well so you say that well there were a year a year and a half two years ahead of contemporary F1 F1 pace oh yeah it was good enough it was good enough as a privateer car to still be with a low rear wing low-thr all mushroom backer which we should mention as one of the real stillwarts of Cannan yeah actually finished second in the championship with his his old air mate be the following year so I think if I was looking at your order I would definitely have the M8B as the most important McLaren and I would probably have the M6A the 1967 car that started the Bruce and Danny show which we've got a number five I've probably put that ahead of the M8F for that reason basically yeah yeah that's an equivalent here isn't and we'll get onto the biggest quibble the biggest quibble is the one that I'm ready for yeah well I'll I'll read you that out as to lead into my

43:07number one the only thing stopping this remarkable car topping our list is the design that was so game-changing it killed Cannan all together so I mean these these top two or three cars are just awesome aren't they and I have to say this is the prettiest of the top cars yeah I think that looks really lovely I do yeah you would look lovelyer without the wing obviously less effective I quite like it yeah I don't know I quite like it I'm not generally I agree but I think that's quite a neat way of doing it yeah it's not superly high no and it's not got the superly you know Lotus started adding in plate bits on you got water that just looks like it's a here package to me it's obviously charosmatically one with the wing so of its time so I'm not saying I would go without the wing but if you think about it without it just the clean lines of it it's a class and so there we go there is there's a feature as well in the this issue of all sort of magazine that's out shortly there'll be a piece on the on the M8B which is yet a fantastic car and a little part of our Cannan celebration right let's get on to number one

44:12and the argument number one is the Porsche 911 736 wins nine poles eight fastest laps the 1973 title with Mark Donney here I would say it's probably got the best livery if any can am car it's cool I do think that blue yellow sonoco look all done did you see the 963 the impsa race yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so fantastic livery and just this is I think for the era as close to a perfect racing car as anyone could get I wouldn't disagree with you you know I love 917 this is the ultimate in a way yeah 917 I think it's a bit bulbous I don't think it's I don't think it's the most beautiful uh Cannan car another I don't think it's the most beautiful 917 by a long way no I'd I'd keep it as a nicer the color scheme is terrific and obviously we know the record we know that it basically won everything and uh as you say killed Cannan so that plays against it for starters

45:12oh plays against it so I kind of feel like it it's so good it it actually makes the people running the series question their own ethos well which I think he's inevitable there was going to be a car that did it eventually it's turbocharged yeah so it's cheating what have you got oh all right Danny I do find it quite funny and uh Danny home I was happy to enjoy the the the success and fruits of McLaren's dominance but when Porsche rock up with the two back well turbo that's not cricket no I mean we do we love the fact that Cannan was free and of Porsche could do this and come there with the turbo but it is changing the changing the game somewhat it is and for me this is the the key point for me is that Cannan was about McLaren for me uh growing up I always thought if you think of Cannan car you think if we got an orange McLaren their domination of the series for me means that number one car should have been what you thought as a number two car I mean you're obviously if I was doing a constructors or teams thing yeah or if I'd just lumped all the m8s together which I think would have been a bit crude yeah you would have it as well one in terms of

46:16manufacturers the wins McLaren 143 Cannan races uh Porsche 115 uh lowler 8 Shadow 4 Shaparral one yeah it's not a long list is it it's a pretty short list largely because of McLaren's domination yeah and so for that reason and the fact this is a turbo I would have I'd have the 69 McLaren has the number one well I love the 69 McLaren but I'm going to put a defense obviously forward from my from my list and I think it's interesting you say you come into McLaren uh come to Cannan through McLaren my interest almost came through the Norman 7 because the Norman 7 in sports cars inspired me when I was a kid and I then read more about it and went oh they did this other championship my god can which cool yeah so I came at it from almost the Norman 7 end and went backwards okay which made maybe that's an impact or not and really thought of it like that of course I do love this car yeah that goes well you say all cool but I just give you some stuff so worth saying the Norman 7 10 although was a game changer it was quite

47:17imperfect race car particularly in the handling department and and Donnie here was obviously a perfectionist and he had he had both the power and the pent-gan Porsche behind him I mean we shouldn't really be surprised if it was successful should we so it had revised the arrows wide at the front along the wheelbase Donnie who persuaded them to put a longer tail on because he wanted it to go faster down the mistral straight pull ricard completely nuttley pointless because there wasn't a track the only track that he would have been able to utilize that was Riverside and the organisers did the shorter track much for his irritation for the last round 1973 so he never got to use the 230 235 mile out top speed and the thing 5.4 liter version of the flat 12 power output on this is quite difficult to pin down largely because they got spikes on the dyno I think the highest spike was 1500 rails per hour I think it actually ran with somewhere between 111200 he had adjustable boost later in the season although I think you only used it once because he didn't need it any other time you run the let's call the gun pose circuit yes yeah yeah the wheeled out two

48:20years after it retired and after Donnie you would retire the first time around and sadly I think he should have stayed retired yes he broke the closed circuit speed record at Taladege at an average speed of 221.1 miles an hour probably because he just wanted to prove that the long tail thing worked talking lap time so yeah give some stats so he was pulling fastest lap at every event his average pole margin was 1.55 seconds with a high 3.3 seconds none of his pole times would be in the following season and several of his outright lap records stood for years and that included being an 0.8 seconds faster than Ronnie Peterson in the load 72 in qualifying for the year's Grand Pit Watkins Glen and he's fastest race that you think turbos would have a bigger gap in qualifying but his fastest race that was actually 1.8 seconds faster than the first that by James I'm in the race yeah so just I mean it was the fastest racing car in the world it's the car for me than McLaren the the reason I put the M8B behind is I don't think it sums up

49:24McLanam in that it wasn't innovative it just did everything that was known yeah very well best at everyone else okay and in fact at the end of the abrucial Clarence don't ask me why we win everything we put the same amount of effort into canams we do F1 and in F1 we only won one Grand Prix basically said the rest that need to pull their fingers out okay I think they were just doing a really good job with what they had this was innovation pushing things along in the way that I think can and we we love about can and okay sums up the ethos more because it wasn't just the engine it was they all sorts of special materials for lightweight they were pushing brake technology forward I mean it led directly to the 936 which was the first remember this is long before Renault gone to F1 with the turbos yeah led to the 936 which is the first car turbocharged car to win them all but for me the Peter Folt quote I've used probably sums it out better than anything I could say I think the 970 was really the best racing car we ever built better than all the cars that followed even the 962 okay that's quite good that's quite good that's good quote oh see that's

50:28mean you have to agree we will agree to disagree I love both cars so I mean it's interesting also that this was dream dream land for motor racing fans can am but this was a time when the real world did impose itself on can am and this was the year 73 of the all crisis which affected everyone around the world really and I don't think that I think that was a convenient excuse for the can am organizers don't you I think they couldn't last forever though I could no good I mean I'm interesting some of the Peter Morgan's written a good we were ready good book for years ago on the 917 project all the way through from beginning to end and he spoke to a lot of the key figures and they seem to be a feeling that Porsche were quite open to that so right we can make the engine available to other teams right we can work on because this is where we can knock this 5.4 liters we can they already had the obviously the early 917s had four and a half liters anyway we can tweak the engine to bring it in line with the fuel capacity in it yes number three years

51:29and ten years later they shared the love and group seed in spectacular fashion with the 956 and they were making a customer car yeah yeah I guess it could have been an earlier model of on that front the angle from there was definitely obviously you never quite know because you know they're there but the feeling was that Porsche would prepare to help can am move forward having dominated it but they didn't seem particularly interested so Porsche got the message and left well I quite like the fact that can I'm last into that period of time yeah because although 74 shadow had it pretty much to themselves it's still ended on a on a positive note because that's a cool car yes you know Jack you're there's a proper driver yeah exactly and so it didn't have a drift into lesser years which you did in its second form in can I mark two yeah which is an interesting year but in different ways and there's nowhere near as cool as no as a person cool drivers great drives interesting cars dangerous cars big accidents yeah lots of cool stuff to talk about

52:35but this first era you know 66 to 74 is perfectly framed great era for society and for you know music and you know popular culture you can see why good wood over the years plugged into cana as a popular thing to get stuck into because it's just everything about it you know you know and even the journalists like Pete Lyons one of the greats of our world you know he was in his element in cana taking pictures and writing great words about it and they went to great circuits we've got to mention the circuits great circuits and and as I think even Pete himself made the point of that the racing was really as good as you hoped it would be yeah but it was still there's still something about it I mean there was more there were worries that that McLaren's domination would kill the championship but the spectator figures actually went up to you in 1969 yeah because it's a war that anyone ever beat them you know just but those they just the sheer spectacle these things going round yeah being driven by okay there were a lot of sort of

53:39make weights further back with older cars and what have you but the two guys at the front were you know Grand Prix winners world champions yeah set 3d500 winners so yeah right so we're we're clarifying they make B for you yeah Porsche R730 for me but I think we both agree with they're both some two of the coolest racing cars ever yeah so I hope you've enjoyed this run through top 10 cana and cars thank you very much don't miss Smith it's been it's been a pleasure and we'll be back soon with the top 10 cana and drivers