TPP 412: Kim West and Macall Gordon on Why Kids Won’t Sleep, and What to Do About It

When my child was little, one of the most common sleep training methods was the "cry it out" approach. We tried it briefly, and it felt absolutely terrible for all of us. I know many parents can relate to the feelings of desperation and overwhelm that come when a child just isn’t sleeping. I wish I’d known back then about sleep coaches Macall Gordon and Kim West, also known as The Sleep Lady, who have developed a gentler, effective approach to changing sleep patterns. Their approach, based on years of research and experience with thousands of families, is especially suited for children who are more alert, intense, and persistent than their peers—and who put up a bigger fight at bedtime. Sound familiar? Then this episode is for you. In their new book, Why Won’t You Sleep?! A Gamechanging Approach for Nonstop, Super-Alert, Big-Feeling Kids, Kim and Macall present a fresh take on sleep training, rooted in understanding a child’s unique temperament. In our conversation, we cover common sleep struggles, misconceptions about sleep training, and why a gradual approach is empowering for both parents and children. They also share tips on setting limits for early risers and managing transitions that encourage peaceful nights.  About Macall Gordon Macall is a researcher, speaker, and author specializing in the link between temperament and sleep. She has a master’s degree in Applied Psychology from Antioch University, Seattle with a research-based specialization in infant mental health. She also has a B.S. in Human Biology from Stanford University. She has conducted and presented research on temperament, sleep, and parenting advice at infant and child development conferences around the world. She has been a featured speaker at national sleep conferences and has led webinar-based advanced training for sleep coaches, mental health providers, and others. She is a certified Gentle Sleep Coach in private practice and is a featured provider on the women’s telehealth platform, Maven Clinic. She is the co-author (with Kim West) of the upcoming book Why Won’t You Sleep?! A Gamechanging Approach for Nonstop, Super Alert, Big-feeling Kids. She comes to this work because she had two sensitive, alert, intense children, and she didn’t sleep for eighteen years. About Kim West Kim West, LCSW-C is a mom of two who has been a practicing child and family social worker for over 25 years. She has personally helped over twenty thousand families all over the world gently teach their children how to fall asleep—and fall back asleep without leaving them to cry it out alone. She started training Gentle Sleep Coaches internationally in 2010 and has appeared as a child sleep expert on numerous magazines, newspapers, and television programs including Dr. Phil, TODAY, and Good Morning America. She is the author of five other books. Things you'll learn How gentle sleep coaching can serve as an effective alternative to traditional methods Why understanding a child’s temperament is crucial in the success of sleep training How behaviorism in sleep training differs from its limited use in other areas of parenting Why a gradual approach to sleep training empowers both parents and children, and how to do that Why parents of intense children often feel stuck between traditional methods and alternative approaches when it comes to supporting their child’s sleep How setting limits helps empower parents while teaching children new sleep-related skills Resources mentioned Macall Gordon’s website LIttle Live Wires website Kim West, aka The Sleep Lady, website Why Won’t You Sleep?! A Game-Changing Approach for Exhausted Parents of Nonstop, Super Alert, Big Feelings Kids by Macall Gordon and Kim West, MSW Little Live Wires on Instagram Little Live Wires on Facebook The Fussy Baby on Facebook Little Live Wires on TikTok Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices