Trailblazing On The Court: A Conversation with Gail Marquis

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Welcome to Karen Houghley's Awesome. I'm Karen Hunter, and it is March Madness.

We are in the midst of the NCAA final four this weekend. We're going to find out who will go

to the final four next weekend. And I am really excited because Women's Basketball is on the rise.

And several years ago, I, well, I want to say, it's like 30 years ago, while I was at the New

York Daily News, I started a Women's Basketball magazine. The very first cover featured Cheryl Swoops,

and we had Rebecca Lobo on a cover and Nikki McCray, Reston Power. The magazine was called

Neck Zone. And I was committed to reimagining the images of women in sport, you know,

much like women's tennis that had its own thing. And it gave rise to Venus and Serena and others

now co-cogoff and Naomi Asaka for particularly black women. There were very few role models,

very few people that they could look to because basketball wasn't televised. Today, young girls

have NIL deals. You have millionaires playing in college basketball, shout out to the South Carolina

team and Flougey and all the folks that are out there making money, all the quirks and everyone.

And it is exciting. The WNBA just agreed to a deal that will make, I think the salary increases

like 400% is the largest salary jump in the history of sport. And what they're saying is not just

that you matter, but that we're paying attention. We're paying attention to women's basketball

in a way that we have not paid attention to it before. And I'm excited. I'm excited for all

the little girls who are going to be tuning in who can aspire to make a living and make a life

in a sport that has really grown, the unrivaled league, all of this. And women can now stay home.

They don't have to go to Russia and Israel and other places to play a sport that they love.

They can stay home and still make money and have dignity. And I got to interview one of the first

pioneers of women's basketball. Gail Marquis, she won a medal in the Olympics. And when no one was

really looking at women's basketball, none of these women could be doing the things they're doing

now without the Gail Marquis of the world. And so when I got a chance to talk with her,

here's the interview. When I got a chance to talk with her, I was really excited because

we all stand on the shoulders of other people. Nobody who's successful today made it there

without somebody making that road smooth, making it a little less bumpy, a little less rocky.

And Gail Marquis is one of those people for women in college basketball and beyond. All right,

stay tuned to my interview with the great Gail Marquis. If you care anything about basketball,

any kind of basketball, this woman's name should be a household name. She is a Hall of Famer.

Believe the first black woman to win an Olympic gold medal. I believe that silver medal.

Silver medal. I'm going to give you the gold. And time out. Wait, you have it with you.

I just happened to have it on. You better come on. No. Oh, she brought the silver.

That's incredible. That is beautiful. 1976 Montreal, Canada.

That's right. It's the first time the women ever played basketball at the Olympic Games.

That's right. I got it. And I happened to be in town. And you know, you wear earrings. I wear my

medal. You better say that. She has a medal around her deck. As I said, my goal was never to be the

first. Well, 47 years later when the Hall of Fame. Did I show you this? No, she got a Hall of Fame.

Wait, come on. The Hall of Fame finally recognizes our team. 47 years later. That's right.

Then I realize all the different firsts. Everything I've been through. Well, let me properly introduce

Hall of Fame silver medalist, legend of basketball. The one and only. The great Gail Marquis.

Yeah. Oh, so happy to reconnect here. Yeah. Miss Karen Hunter. Always listen to you.

Huge stories about our history together. You know, it's so nice to be on the show.

Nice to see you. Nice to be in community with you. A little sister. A little sister.

Sister doesn't experience this. Okay. She needs to experience it. She does. Everyone should.

Be in the studio. Not being seen is all people want. People want to exist and to be seen.

Say my name. You know, we want to be. What was the biggest challenge in obstacle for you playing

basketball in a time when women weren't seen at all? That was it being seen. Take us seriously.

It was so frustrating to see what was given to men and boys from court time to air time to

possibilities. If you can imagine after basketball, here I am one of the top 12 women in the

country on the Olympic team. We finish it. We come from with a silver beat up the Russians.

And that's it. Thank you very much. Wow. Meanwhile, my male counterparts still four and Mitch

Cup check. They got NBA first round picks. Yeah. You know, the apocalypse of fall and me is thank

you very much. And that was it. And it's so frustrating. So that started me that launched me into playing

internationally. I ended up going to France with on contract and the French took very good

care of me from apartment to car to French Riviera. Wow. Now I tell people, if you're going to be

on a bad team, be on a bad team in the South of France. That's right. And that's why I was before

years. And I went to the University of Nice. I learned French, fluid. In fact, I remember my

sister came to visit me one time. And after being there, something came up and I was excited.

I flipped and I started speaking French to my sister. You know, that ain't right.

And that's what she said. What? What? I said, okay, okay. I'll be home soon.

hilarious. I think about the Ben Proudfoot documentary on Luchia Harris.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. And your team made my team made my friend. Let's talk about because

that came out and then she passed shortly after and it won the Academy Award and it was a short

short. And it was in her voice. Yes. She did the narrative. That's true. So important. And she

unveiled some stories that I didn't know. Imagine black woman in Mississippi period. All right.

That's the title right there. And then for Lucy to lead that Delta State team as the only black

person on that team and lead them to three national championships in a row. And then when she

comes back and asked to be a coach or an assistant coach, we have no room for you. Wow.

You know, we have nothing for you after that. It took her into a breakdown and she had to fight back

and get her body back in shape and get back to the Lucy, the champion that we know she went through

a lot. And just as she was passing, she was getting back in shape so she could get out of the wheelchair

and attend her youngest son, Christopher's, his wedding in America in New York as well as he married.

I think a Nigerian or a Japanese woman. And she wanted to be able to get on the plane and go to

Africa and see her youngest son get married. And she was getting in shape. And you know, her heart

took her too soon. Gail Marquis is here. Queens College legend as well. Born racing Queens.

Yes. Ron, my business partner over there went to Queens College. He's always so proud of

because he said it was free to go. You just had to pay for the books and it was very, you could

afford it and came out of there with no debt. Yeah. No debt. Yeah. That's a day as ridiculous.

The best part about playing and representing this country for you in the worst part.

Best part was representing my people. My people because when I would go to France,

they just see a United States as a monolithic. And she would say, do you know Michael Jackson?

Does he live near you? Listen, I live in Queens and Michael might be in Gary, Indiana or California.

You know, we don't all live together, but I had to explain that to them or not Luther Vandros.

Some other singers would come out, you lay family, you lay godson. Is he a woman? Is he a man?

I don't know. But still, I had to kind of bridge the gap. And as I told the story today,

we went to a town. We were playing basketball. We landed in a town and we're walking the streets

to the arena and people are hanging out of their houses looking at us. And you know,

when you're staring at someone, if they catch your eye, you tend to look away.

Those folks was hanging out the window like with a bag of popcorn. Look at what is coming

down the street now. So I asked my teammate, I'm friends, Jessica said, what's going on here?

She said, yeah, they have never seen a negris before. I said, oh my gosh, I'm a negris.

So I just waved, you know, I just waved and kept walking, we were walking to the stadium.

But what I liked about it was being an ambassador thrust into the position of being an ambassador

because they hadn't seen. And they had so many stories about Black people, African American

brown skin. And here I was with the opportunity to rectify, to explain it. No, it's not like that.

No, this is how it go. And the music, they're listening to music to music,

Sylvester, L.A. Family Godstone, Sylvester. I said, Jennifer, say,

I don't know what Sylvester is at that time. I didn't know. I didn't want to call them out

or her out. I didn't know he should maybe they didn't have a, we didn't have a word for

what Sylvester, but that's part of that reinvention too. That's right. That's right. Exactly.

And I didn't want to, you know, LGBTQ community, you don't call people out. You don't claim them.

You don't tag them. I don't want to do that. Sylvester, he'll tell you who he is,

but enjoy the music. But the culture was good, especially for the young people.

There were other times the worst of it was maybe the police didn't understand, you know.

I'm a BMOC, I'm a big man on campus, you know. I'm in France, in the South of France,

small village. I won't even say there's not many, just only one. And if you would read

the Nice, Mattan, or Les Gernas, the newspaper, you would know who I am. Okay, so that got me thrown

in the jail. But listen, wait, wait. I'm just not gonna just say you got thrown in jail and keep

going. We need to know the details. What happened? Because I spoke up, because three of us were walking

in Monte Carlo. We had just come from the casinos and it was about let's say 11 o'clock. I don't know.

Though patrol car rolls up and asked if we know anything about a robbery or something. I'm six feet.

The other guy I was with was 65 another one was seven foot all of us African

American we're robbing nothing okay we're the biggest things in your town

everyone knows us when we go into the bakery is how are you you know they just

know us and so me with the smart mouth here the police rolled up and in French

and I speak French I understand what they were saying and I said to him in

French if you read the local newspaper the knees matan like the daily news if

you read the newspaper you would know who we are let's go for a ride so we

get thrown in jail but it was a nice jail it was in Monte Carlo

if you don't get thrown in jail get thrown in the jail in Monte Carlo and they

ended up calling back to auntie but the small village yes we know her

later I'll send her home she got a game tomorrow you know it kind of thing and

they released it three of us so that could have been the ugly side of it but I

look at the positive side that this is my chance to be an ambassador of the

game not only of the game but of our country because so many people have

ideals about Lenegris the browns can the docks and the mysterious who are

they can they talk do they have tails okay so all of that you want to change

you just change about the way you act Bonjour Commissar on how are you good day

every day every day and so they can say yeah okay not bad when did you start

playing basketball how did you fall in love with basketball in Queens how old let's

say ninth grade so what is that about 13 years old and my sister is here with us

in the studio and I told her what's her name what's your name

John John John Portland Oregon are you important Oregon yeah she did

been in like 40 years I love it I love it so it's she's a transplant and she

didn't like this past life me I just handled it you know I keep going you

don't stay on that curve like that wave just stay above the curve don't get

caught up in the curve because then you rumble and tumble to the shore just

stay on that curve Joan likes the comma life which I like for her comma life

of Portland Oregon but I told her because if we didn't share a bedroom the bedroom

where I said I do not like going to school in the ninth grade we were going to

a teacher strike it was just the transition from middle school to high school I

didn't like it I'm going to drop out I'm not going to school anymore and she

said daddy when I like that you know you know a black father ain't gonna like

that so I got involved with sports with the local basketball team at St.

Catherine of Sienna in Queens and St. Olvins and I liked it and settled me

down and then I basketball a little bit at the high school Andrew Jackson high

school they didn't have a team but I just started to they didn't have a

girls team they did not have a girls team they had plenty of boys team a

history of boys basketball but it was in the 60s 70s yeah they didn't have

anything for girls I'm on that cusp I'm that person who wears the girls team

why don't we gonna play at Madison Square Garden how come we're not on the court

you know I'm that person and that was my role the Lord gave me that role make

that noise you be that noise from ninth grade to 12th grade to freshman sophomore

college that's my voice that's why I kept the push you go to college right

around time title nine was created yes wow yes I was in there for title I was

in there and it came the next year two years so it wasn't quite accepted but

then I was playing against this college and that college four years later

those colleges were out because the money was going to universities university

Connecticut University of Michigan Tennessee University things like that

that's where the shift came where more the colleges and the colleges dropped

down to what then became division two and three but I was on that cusp I remember

asking my coach Lucille Cavallis how come are we not playing at Madison

Square Garden it was sort of like a natty kid you know if you have a child

who's natty mommy why mommy why how come how come and it got them thinking it got

them thinking so I was that push I was that pebble in your shoe so to speak

yes how great were you don't hold back she won't hold back

I don't know I don't know you know I had to compare myself against other people

to see how good and I often tell people there are three phases to my game the

one phase playing at Queens College under the great Lucille Cavallis who was

I could say I love hate but mostly love now but I remember just you know the

yelling the intimidation the pressures she wanting to win and wanting you to

win and wanting you to do better and understand what I'm saying you for you to

do and do better and I said that you know that at you at you at you that what

was something I had to have well that was one part of my game another part was

playing the city ball playing the street ball Rucker Park Rucker you played at

the Rucker I went up to Rucker to play didn't know what I was doing but they

took care of me I would play they put me on whatever team I play sometimes I'd

get in on the fast break other times the girl would look me off you know hog the

ball and go right to the hoop but as I kept playing rebounding starting the

fast break quick next the creativity of the sport that's what I got playing in

Rucker and then I talk about the third phase was going away to pencil

venue to the Pokemon invitation or to those basketball camps Lucille Cavallis

after my freshman sent you said you need to go to basketball camp I didn't know

where is she sending me now what is the best what is a basketball can we were

girl Scouts we can pitch a tent we can whittle we can cook on fire now she

sent a mutual a basketball camp okay all right okay so I went and that's where

I learned the fundamentals the breakdown of the game you know going left

going right how to shoot how to hold the ball how to pet just so much it all

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cards are issued by JPMorgan chase bank and a member FTIC I wonder as the game

evolved because I started covering sports when I got to the daily news started

the star ledger and I remember there was red you I think you played with red

count against against red cow blaze jazz got that you're on her team yes exactly

leave them in my come through that was Teresa Edwards and you know this before

the the liberty and all that and I thought that the the game was so amazing the

kinds of things you would see I'd never seen before that's a present she

Lynn Kennedy played it Iowa under Vivian Strinder for a while so I you know I

knew great basketball but the level of play even today there's some kids I

don't know do you compare then to now because it felt like a concentration of

greatness that I just now it's feel feels very commercial well I feel I had a

concentration of greatness when I played if you look at the Teresa Shanks Teresa

Grants Mary and Stanley's you I could call those names Nancy Liebman was on the

cusp of it Carol blaze Jowski any Myers I see Harris he's a people that I had

to play it against and I tell folks you cannot be a champion until you beat a

champion you have to go through them they're not gonna give it up all right I

had to beat Carol blaze Jowski I had to beat red I had to keep going through

them to get where I wanted to be when they named me I went to the trials for

the Olympic team and it was regional tryouts they took five of us then we went

to the national tryouts and it was about 50 girls and women there and you played

played play you had to get through those champions from Pat head summit to

Lucy Harris to Carolyn Bush from Wayland Baptist oh schools you never heard of

you had to get through those champions and I tell people when I was named to

the Olympic team I was in my room packing my bags to go home or go to Portland

maybe I wouldn't go home because my mother was always at the airport telling

everybody oh you didn't make the team but we love you so I said I'm gonna go to

Portland my sister lives in Portland I go that way so I was throwing stuff in

the bag and Nancy Lieberman comes in here with her goofy self she now three

ball coach and she's done so many great things building courts and all and you

know key me and you Queens far rock away we made the team and goofball with the

flaming red hair I think it's out of my face I'm sticking you messing with me

all the time because she was always goofy character but then in the same

token next came in Carol blaze jalski you know I mean premier shooter to this

day face all red from crying tears and cussing people out and you know

gal congratulations you made the team I was like oh my gosh wow so I talk about

the champions that you have to go through because they're not gonna give it up

Carol ain't gonna lay down and you go grints is not gonna lay down shank ain't

gonna lay down Mary they're not gonna lay down let you go you have got to beat

these champions and when you beat these champions you take something with you

why could I go to Wall Street with a degree in psychology and physical

education why cuz I beat champions that's right I'm a champion that's right and

I'm gonna stand up there against them and learn this Wall Street what you're

doing here making money and I'm gonna learn it and take it back to the black

community so they can understand stocks bonds government bonds issued they're

gonna understand that they're gonna set up their own financials you're not

gonna just gonna get a paycheck and run through it you've got to put 10% on

the side and you got to pay you first so all of that is the bundle yes all of

that is the bundle you didn't have the opportunity there were no NIL deals

coming up when you were around and there were no contracts to get a lot of

endorsements right there were a million dollar salaries is you know the young

ladies got when they first started the WNBA you were playing for the passion but

to make it into a career as you said you didn't just say okay I'm gonna give

up you use that basketball to build an empire for yourself talk a little bit

about that well well playing basketball and a bit of the frustration was that

I wasn't making money or they were reneg on contracts I did play for the WBL

women's basketball league and my coach did you know my coach was Dean the

dream manager Dean manager was your manager was my coach my first year my

only year with that New York team did you did you know him I know you know Dean

Jr. Oh Dean Jr. Yeah yeah from from from TV yeah that's his father that's

right yeah and he's not Dean Jr. He's like Dean the fourth that's right I have a

dozen of those deans over there well Dean was my coach that first year and

only year and if you can imagine Dean manager a great player rice market New

York Knicks Dean was coached by Red Holtzman that's right okay so when we

would practice at Long Island City LaGuardia College we would come in after the

Knicks and Red Holtzman would hang around and Red is whispering in Dean's air you

know so next year you know we run in place from the New York Knicks and then

another time Dean played at Marquette University Al McGuire comes up in there

great coach as well Al McGuire is was all up in his ear up in his ear so I feel

like I had been coached by Dean by Red Holtzman by Al McGuire we ran a play

called 10 9 8 10 98 and it was a play that as the shot clock went down when it

got to 10 just all hell break that just health the shelters just run all over the

court on defense and the opposing team was to get this ball at my hand they

coming after me and it would push the game such that they would make terrible

shots we had one like 20 in a row at one point you know we were just clicking

and I felt I was being coached by Red Holtzman by Al McGuire in addition to Dean

and his craziness he was quite a sort as well what year was that the women's

basketball league that one was 79 to 80 I went to that because you talk about the

foundation of women's pro game yes I played women's pro salaries were very low

and I tell people that it is a day they still owe me money that's right they didn't

finish out the contracts and all and I often wanted to stop in the middle

because they had stopped paying us or couldn't and in my ear is that this is women's

basketball this is the legacy this is you know if it folds it's really going to be

ugly we went through we won the championship the team folded even after a

championship and I went on to play for another team and then the league folded

after that and I was an amateur I tried to hold on to my amateur standing

because from 76 being amateur I went to Europe I was still an amateur I could

come back and and try out for the 1980 Olympic team make that team but

unfortunately we were knowing that was the boycott that's right and I could not

wait until 84 so even the contracts even the endorsements the Dan and

yogurts you're not gonna get a lot of money yeah we just did not it just was

not there when did you know what we're doing we're pioneers did you just

knew this we're pioneers or something special we didn't call it pioneers we

just knew we were grinding it out Janice Thomas was on my team a great point guard

you know she could barely do college but you get her with a ball on the court

it was a string she had a string on that ball could see the court see it so

well we all knew we didn't call it pioneers we knew we were the startups and

then from there maybe we went back to France I went back to out there when one of

my other teammates was passed away went to Spain with Kim Hampton they went to

other countries and just kept playing they just kept playing we were in our

20s how can you stop when you love and was supposed to and the other countries

are taking better care of us they paid us they gave you a house they give you a

car take care of the insurance I got sick in France I never saw I broke my

nose I was in a single room sweet overlooking the Mediterranean Eaton

Strawberry Tarts I wish I was sick for a week they took care of you I never saw

a bill for health care you know I went to school to learn the language so

even with a education I didn't come back and you know was able to talk with

people and it has the frustration when you get back again I look back at my

Olympic counterparts on the men's side yeah all with first round draft picks

Gotti May Kent Benson Phil Ford Mitch Cup check you know great players Tommy

Lagoy friends of mine to this day why can talk to these guys it went right in so

that frustration that I don't want to say anger that's what fueled me to go

to the biggest arena in New York City Wall Street I just went through with my

pe education in psychology what y'all doing down here and got into the Dean

Witter Reynolds the pain Webber's the Merrill Lynch's and the JP Morgan

Chases legend legend Gail Marquise the accolades are great the medals are

wonderful but the legacy allows for so many people to enjoy a sport that is

growing by leaps and bounds right now do they pay homage do these young girls

know do they know you when you walk in the room you know I went 2016 it was

about our 40 year anniversary of this Olympic team and they invited us to

Madison Square Garden because the 2016 Olympic team was playing so we got to

meet those girls the Diana Tarosses and the Brittany grinders and see Don

Staley again and then they brought in other legends they brought in Teresa

Edwards you know all right just just a great great person Teresa understood

Teresa was marveling because again I wear my medal the way you put it on I'm

going out you know and I had it and Teresa Edwards five time Olympian she got

four gold one bronze she's Gail what I mean T you already got what you

worried about this one for because Gail you had the first you said to stand it

we can never let it go down that's right she she come back I can't remember the

last team that didn't win gold so if they don't know we tell them I ran into

Brittany Griner at that time I told her I'm tighter you to be in on the social

pages that was when she was going to hold that drama with this girlfriend and

that one and beat number I want you back on the sports pages I only want to

read about rebounds block shots and points that's all I want that's all I

want to read about you she said yeah you're right you're right I said you want

to let me in well come on back anytime nice to meet you Miss Jones nice to meet

you thank you so much you can follow her where do you want people to go to your

website let me see Facebook I'm on Facebook okay Gail M-A-R-Q-U-I-S the legend legendary

thank you for everything you've done for us you're welcome and bringing those

girls along standing on the shoulders up wasn't that awesome well please make

sure to make Aaron Hunter is awesome your favorite podcast and feel free to

share it on social media with someone who needs to hear it and check out the

other amazing podcasts on the women's empowerment network thank you for being

a part of this family till next time

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transfer your scripts refill them and have them delivered straight to you

migraines managed allergies alleviated dermatology derma delivered

ding dong is that your pizza nope Walmart pharmacy delivery with a refill

switch to Walmart and manage your prescriptions in the app the Walmart you

thought you knew is now new delivery not available for all prescriptions

exclusions apply