Transgender medicine and the “coalition of the fringes”

0:00We've learned anything from these past couple of years. My fellow Americans, it's that personal medical freedom and liberty are in crisis. America our love, Pulse brings together the top experts in healthcare-related fields to keep you a beat ahead. Give us a few more out of the Pulse radio on the I Heart Radio Network and on the America Out Loud apps for Apple, Android and Alexa. Don't miss a moment during this every Friday at 5 p.m. Eastern. I'm Dr. Randall Bach here at unpack myths, explorations and give you actionable insights into the world of medicine and health. I've been on vacation this week so I've gone back to two interviews recorded some time ago. Yesterday was MIT's Retset Levy on the superannuation, basically the expiration of need in 2023 and necessary removal of the Urswale COVID-19 vaccine mandates, particularly for children. Today is Wilford Riley in a

1:01conversation recorded April 19th, 2024 on Transenter Identity Politics, Medicine, Sex, Race and what happens when political categories begin colliding with biological ones. Recording is more than two years old but the questions have not gone away. Here is Wilford Riley. In terms of things going on in the world, I mean I'm interested in obviously quite a few topics. I mean that's sort of my professional role. The most recent article I wrote for National Review was on the topic of Transgender Mass Shooters. So I mean this isn't this is not one of the bigger problems in the country but it is a fascinating trend. I mean. That's a growing problem. Yeah, no it's it's of the most reason. So first of all this gets into what a mass shooting is, right? So you see the weird you know what horseshoe theory is obviously. The horseshoe theory is the idea that the crazy right and the crazy left because they're so anti-democratic. The inspirations are respectively communism and socialist fascism. Often end up saying almost the

2:01same thing. And one of the things that you're hearing a lot from both extremes right now is that there's this epidemic of mass shootings. Everyone from Steve Sailor although it described him as extreme on every point but over to who's that on the left every town USA the anti-gun people think you should regulate certain knives as well. All of these people are saying well they're roughly in the thousands of mass shootings each year. They're almost a thousand or a little more. And the issue here is that they're using a definition of mass shooting that is extraordinarily broad. It's like more gunfire directed at more than three people or more than three people struck by bullets. There's no implication that the people have to be killed. There's certainly no understanding there that the shooter has to be a stranger, a gunman as opposed to a member of a rival gang or your wife or something like that. So I mean you end up with this very large total that includes a substantial percentage of all murders or all attacks in the USA. If you're if you're using this this kind

3:03of broad lens take. In general the definition of mass shooting that I and most other academics in the softer sciences would use is the one that's been up on the mother Jones website for a couple of decades and that is you know more than three people at least not including the shooter you know killed by a stranger. What you think of is the Columbine kind of situation. When you look at that definition there actually are very few mass shootings. I mean there are 158 I believe on the list we usually use in Polly Sye and in kind of upper and journalism on this topic and of those blah blah getting to the point but in the past since 2018 there's only been about 50 and of those now six maybe seven have been committed by trans or non-binary shooters. I mean Nashville Covenant is just just the most notable of them. You had a shooter just the other day although this isn't on the list he was stopped fortunately but you had a guy just the other day who was planning a young Asian American male who identified as a

4:05woman and had a a bevy of guns and planned on shooting up a school. So I wrote a piece about this and said well you know six out of 50 is a remarkable number because only 0.6% of the US population is trans. It's also of course multiplier. Yeah but I mean there are a couple things that are really notable about this like one is that most of the shooters were biological females which is something we've never seen previously. Prior to 2018 you had one bio female mass shooter. Murder is a young man's game. Is you think it's just a testosterone? I do. I'd be interested in European as a doctor but yeah I think I'm not a physician but yeah you'd have to imagine and this so there's a broader issue here and we're gonna talk about things well beyond like the trans debate but this ties into the absurdity to some extent of what we're doing with these kids. So yeah of the recent shooters you know a pretty good number six seven were transgender and non-binary more than half of them were

5:06female and yeah this hasn't been revealed but you would imagine that the young women in that group were taking testosterone and we almost we tend for whatever reason to forget this right now but pure testosterone is a pretty powerful drug. I mean that's essentially as I understand what anabolic steroids are like anabolic just synthetic testosterone. Yeah exactly. I mean I don't necessarily call it a drug. I mean it's a hormone. People use it as a drug and so this let me people take thyroid medication but really they're just replacing their thyroid and and there are some people I mean you know if you had an arqueoctomy you had cancer and your testicle winner and because God knows whatever they had to take both off in a surgical attestration you would take testosterone to replace it and be replaced with women when they hit menopause they take estrogen as HRT hormone replacement therapy so if you're replacing something that wasn't there but they had been there that you just lost fine so if you have an early you know a variant cancer and then you are 30 years five years old and you still want to look you know 35 feminine then you take

6:10estrogen so that that's you know well but you take it to to modulate take anyway this concept where you're you know adding on to something you already have in terms of the the anabolic part is one case and then taking taking you know you know chain you know it's so-called sexual transition what not you're giving testosterone women who've never had before at all and you know they're gonna it's gonna be a funky thing it's a lot kind of like that you know if you're used to driving a Toyota you get into a Ferrari you know you press down and accelerate it's just not the same car I mean zip it along and I think that's you know it's gonna be a little bit of you know funny bends in the road and you may be crashing a few things I think that that's kind of like the unfamiliarity of what testosterone is there some aggressions that guys worked out you know this is there's a great book I don't want to divert too much but there's a great book called the War on Football by Daniel J Flynn and you know

7:10people are having been trying to get rid of football for over a hundred years because it's violent blah blah blah but but you know the the question was is compared to what you know you get rid of football you got a bunch of violent guys we want to do things to each other bash each other so I mean this is not it's not a any kind of coincidence that the fair number of guy sports are violent you know people like boxing they like wrestling you know I wrestled and so forth and and God knows it you know it took a lot of aggression out and so forth plus it gives you some confidence so so they get rid of football it's not like everyone's gonna become you know get eight hundred and SATs because they have all that extra time you know they're gonna be aggression so you know guys work through that they they've been guys forever and they had a lot of time working it out they understand bullying when but if you have some girl well said and sees twenty five whatever and then she's taken a bunch of you know I like my Ferrari analogy you know they're the used to driving I don't know a Han Subaru and and now they got a supercharged one I know yeah I think

8:11that's pretty much correct like as a man a lot of your or we don't like to put it this way necessarily but a lot of your early life is spent regulating the urge to have sex constantly and get in brawl I mean you learn how to be quantum-quadad gentlemen you learn how to meditate yeah you learn how to go to the gym in the dojo and take that anger out I can't imagine having the same intensity of like hormonal lust or the ten that I had at seventeen as a woman that's never experienced that and got transmitten by the way who also make a disproportionate number of people in this category at least broadly defined but I mean I would imagine that they have similar issues with estrogen like how do you deal with that cyclical wave of passionate emotion that women describe feeling as a guy where I mean your responses to things prior to the surgery were often or prior to the treatment were often grunts yeah bro you know I mean what what does that do to you but with the trans men it does seem to be more intense I mean what you're doing is taking my terms of trans men are

9:13trans women I always get confused with this which one are we talking about there's a I think it's Chris Rufo who says that the best way to think of the word trans if you don't mind being a bit rude is as fake so a trans man is a woman who identify a female who identifies as a male so like trans men would be females who are taking my understanding of this is that they're taking the male normal dose of testosterone so I recently considered testosterone replacement therapy and as far as I could tell I was basically normal I was reasonably high T for like a guy who's becoming older and I was just like I don't really see a need for to spend money on this but one of the things that they do is give you your T score and the average for males is supposed to be between 300 and a thousand let's say 700 would be totally typical as you know what you're doing with the trans men is because it's so hard to get a woman's body to look like a man's you're giving a male typical dose of testosterone which is going to build muscle it's gonna cause you to grow hair breast mass is probably gonna shrink but you're also going to get the level of aggression that would come to a

10:15man who has a fully 18 year old 750 T score and I would imagine that it's very difficult to deal with all this like you're a young woman you've traditionally enjoyed normal sex with men in most cases you suddenly find that that urge has intensified 500% and you also have a full beard and you know pythons like large muscles like what are you doing where you find it partners is there anger it's the treatment you're experiencing in society so I mean that's that's something that we see and we yeah we see this massive overrepresentation of this one category among these these felony violent shooters so I wrote about that and I wrote about that in the broader context also of kind of what the how are we doing like I was able to read through a very not a very widely distributed piece but like good science reporter for broiders and I was able to double check all of the numbers in it with academic sources so I mean I now know the number of kids that have received these transgender treatments and it's very high I mean I think the number I came up with was nineteen thousand seven

11:18hundred fifty two just for top surgeries which are voluntary double mastectomies full double mastectomies and direct hormone replacement like fully going on puberty blockers and then going on tea so I mean many many many more people have been socially transitioned have probably started first-aid puberty blockers so on but it's crazy it's a lobotomy number when people say we're not doing this to kids these are twenty two twenty three-year-old males and females that want to do it no that's that's not true like the the people in this piece were it was only people under seventeen as I recall so it's a it's a crazy thing that we're doing yeah I mean I've got some some quasi personal stories I have a friend you may not believe so I have a friend few friends and you know his his daughter we we noticed you know a while ago you know she was hitting her teens you know that's not she wasn't like voluptuous but you know she was growing breasts whatever and then and then it was like one year it's you out there in the

12:19summer I'm like I said to my wife like you know silly question but this is kind of early in this in this phenomenon of you know whether we call it social contagion or or what or we discoveries but yeah she agrees like anyway and so this girl is transitioning and I spoke to a mother about it and and and and and one point we we we knew each other while she's talking about her child I said you know we'll use a name you know X is that you know X going to college like well you know they don't want to really do this then I want to do that that I'm like and I know she has a couple of children and I thought the other one or heart had already gone to college like well if they don't want to go for interviews I mean doesn't which one of them doesn't want to go she's like she kind of looked at me strange like oh no you know X is X is X is of that so it's like oh because they they were there but you know but this is this is after they had had this

13:23mastectomy and so it didn't seem to improve whatever situation and so I started asking it's like oh and she said well yeah you know they is are they is they are whatever doing X Y Z and they want to become a man whatever it's like she said I said well what what was this you know she's well you know X felt uncomfortable about it's theirs I don't know breasts whatever you know she was growing breasts and and I remember being at that stage too I felt so really uncomfortable growing breasts like and so I'm kind of like that that that in my head like well yeah but you got over it I mean you have children you know and I don't know if those breasts were put to work in their you know genuine kind of biological functional scent but you know you got married love it's like what's the thing that it just seems like an odd gap to think that I did this I got through my uncomfortable awkward puberty stage you know I don't know if I shouldn't have these you know breasts and people staring at what are like to think that your daughter couldn't um anyway that's that's in a sense water in the bridge and and I think it's gonna water this gonna stay under that

14:26bridge because I don't know if you'd listen to Helen Joyce on this topic but she says basically when people have made this deep and and and and large a contribution to uh the movement or whatever they think there's no going back they can't acknowledge failure they can't acknowledge they're wrong ever yeah the rest of us are gonna have to just tell them that they are and keep it moving though but I mean like I'd say that's correct yeah like if you cut off your young son's penis you know and give him an artificial vagina that is made with intestine and this I mean yeah there's a I mean there's a dark element to this like Byzantine Unic stuff at the margins but I mean in fact Unic is now recognized by the APA as I understand as a gender category you can want to become a Unic by getting a voluntary double or keyectomy so having your balls cut off and retaining a bit of a penis and then just living life I mean and that's that's considered to be a proper treatment for your

15:28gender dysphoria yes I would imagine that someone who helped their firstborn son do this would have a pretty significant amount of either guilt or a survivor's need to say that it was absolutely necessary for the rest of their life but yeah like I've actually read the the academic research on this and the medical research on this and yeah you're absolutely right I mean it's not even contested between 69 and 92% of kids who experienced gender dysphoria or probably the 15 best studies on point I think you have a meta analysis here just get over it yeah they get through that and I would imagine especially for women I'm not trying to be quote unquote stimpish or sympathetic and only one direction here but as a woman puberty has to be pretty horrifying I mean your vagina starts bleeding I mean it takes on the the things you associate with that in adulthood there's hair growing all over it has a notable odor although not one that men and lesbians find unpleasant you know you start having these things start coming out of your chest you can't run with the boys anymore

16:29older creepy guys start looking at you I mean every female friend that I've ever had has described that you're like 14 or in the park their dudes that are like 20 driving by staring over I mean or beyond that age so I mean it there has to be a level of temptation when someone says well I can give you this pill that'll stop this and it'll delay it until you're mentally ready you can you can never go through it at all you can be a tough male warrior I mean yes that has to be appealing the reality is that in order to do a bunch of things like from have a clitoral orgasm to get a husband you have to remain a woman and progress on into adulthood you you can't seal your vagina shut which is again part of the most extreme female procedure here this stuff is extremely painful and get a fake penis made out of skin and fat from your thigh now that that's not going to in most cases help you mature into mentally stable adulthood so yeah up to 90% of these kids will

17:30just get through this phase if they're just allowed to get through this phase. Well for dryly and I have been talking about gender dysphoria puberty and the medical affirmation of model we'll pick it up there after the break I'm Dr. Ranna Bach this is America out the pulse always during treatment the structure of tap water gets messed up yes we have to purify water but what are we doing to fix the water structure so the body can actually absorb it that is why we created our lab certified structured water devices these devices restored water molecules back to their natural structure just like a mountain stream making them highly absorbable it's not how much you drink it's how much you absorb that counts better hydration better energy all day get one for your home or on the go at chemicalfreebody.com forthslash out loud for an exclusive discount that's chemicalfreebody.com forthslash out loud I'm Dr. Kelly Victory with the wellness company and I know this personally I exercised a to healthy diet and had no symptoms when a routine mammogram resulted in a cancer diagnosis it revealed a hard truth even healthy people can get cancer and much of modern medicine

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20:39awaken your heart soul and mind to the out loud truth welcome back for our second segment i'm dr. Randall Bach here on pack myths explore innovations and give you actionable insights into the world of medicine and health we are returning with Wilford Riley we left off with his argument that many young people experienced gender dysphoria move through it without medical transition from there the question becomes what medicine should do and what it should decline to do what happened in my opinion was that activists really common deared this whole discussion and started pumping out what was you can call it the hard affirmation model but like if a kid comes into your office and you're a doctor or you're a psychiatrist with the ability to prescribe what you're supposed to do is not and this is still the standard by the way at least in most states you're not supposed to ask about any contributing factor sexual abuse

21:39out imagine would be an obvious one for young women just discontentment with puberty you know anything like this are you a cutter most of these people are there's a button christina buttons lives on twitter buttons lives has pointed out that there's something like a 60% overlap with severe autism with PTSD style trauma so on and gender dysphoria but you're not supposed to pursue any of that you're just supposed to say okay you say you're a boy well you're a boy and this is what boys do and you then recommend a suite of behaviors from transitioning and dressed which basically just means adopting the corneaist male stereotypes you see a lot of baseball caps and like willingness you know and for anywhere from that to again the voluntary double mass so on and again I I bluntly think it's an awkward topic to talk about but I think this is going to be treated as lobotomy in 20 years like it they're going to be a lot of these people that have full beards that are female that have gone through something very similar to clitoridectomy

22:41that have these fake penises hanging from their stomach that are going to be speaking and saying it's amazing that this was this was done to me in my opinion I remember when clitoridectomy was a thing that the medical community was railing against in the 90s I believe in the late maybe late 80s and that was like on front page how horrible it is at Egypt you know I mean they have automobiles and telephones and whatnot you know relative tyros and relative modern placement in Egypt they're allowing clitoridectomies you're taking away the women's ability to have sexual pleasure of law how horrible how gruesome how mutilatory how bad bad bad bad bad bad and it goes on you know certain places nearby I guess Sudan this and that I'm not sure the actual you know geographic mapping code size with Islam but I'm not sure I don't think all of Islam does that anyway it was it was a big deal I see nothing about that no discussions about that at all it's like I think you've lost the ability to criticize the the oddities of doing clitoridectomies if you're

23:43if you're doing you know frankly worse and more and and you're doing it in pursuit you're not even letting leaving the female form you know you're you're you're pursuing you know this you know you know kind of borrow religious time you're pursuing this false idol you can never reach this thing you can't you can't become man I can't become you know I'm one of my older one of my kids when a young insisted everyone called him Batman he was like four years old I'm not joking he became completely ordinary he would walk away not engage with you if you didn't call him Batman and and address him as the Batman you know he assumed he had all the powers and what not within his reign I was jumping off things and why when I were you know kind of like dashing around he uses I mean it was it was it was charming and so forth but he would get really irritated you know if you didn't use his proper pronoun as Batman and the bat whatever and but this

24:43something you know through and I you know that's that's neither here nor there but it's an absurdity but this kind of like application where you can think you can be succumb to you can't become a man you know you know you can't you can't transition that all these terms are weird and it's it's ought to be that medicine kind of folds at this and everyone's supposed to all you know I've signed and unfortunately I don't know if you know about this but I'm getting older and I hope it doesn't happen to you but yeah and so you know I signed it for certain medical visits and now all they all want to have a pre-sign you know so like it's like your boarding pass for your airlines you know it's a couple questions what are you carrying on board but in this case everybody everybody around here it's like what's your gender what do you want to be called are you a man they give me you know it's not mf anymore it's like there's like seven choices what I can be and apparently my my new gender is prefer not to say that's that's like my that's actually my preferred ethnicity it's my preferred you know you name it that's prefer not to say that's pretty much maybe I'll put that on my

25:46bio that's actually so I mean first of all that's really funny um that like that's a good dinner speaker sort of joke that I might steal like yeah I'm here representing my preferred ethnicity prefer not to say but prefer gender rather not talk about it my I think that's not of your business I mean I actually think it's a good approach to sex social class so I'm done alive so I'm very good good good thanks for sharing that one but in terms of the I do think there are two very serious points here one is when you say you can't transition that's that's something brutal but honest and it's good to hear you as a medical pro say it I've heard more and more friends going to events like Jen's back that are psychologists that are doctors yeah the the reason we now know we looked at this new study from Sweden I don't want to miss sight the authors but they came out a year ago less than a year ago and I mean this is the first large-in study to really track a cohort through transition and then for the normal 10 years or so I had imagined you'd use to measure regret and see whether they felt better whether their mental issues had been cured by transition and what it found was no as I recall suicidality was higher

26:52there were plenty of other issues that still existed at the same level are you content with your newly gendered body no I think some kind of small insect just flew into my eye by the way but whatever we'll deal with nature out of y'all just looks silly for a second but basically yeah what the study found is that there was no significant difference in behaviors or in more importantly in kind of attitude suicidal ideation etc after a standard 10-year waiting period and that does not surprise me at all and the reason for this in my opinion is that you can't actually become the opposite sex so I mean like if you're feeling is you're a man you're this big burly blonde Nordic guy you should be a beautiful woman named Desiree it might at first be very tempting to say okay well I'm going to get breast implants that will make me into Desiree I'm going to take estrogen that will make me look more like the person I want to be but the problem is that they're still going to be all of these issues I mean their entire reddit forums devoted to how you can tell

27:54what a gender someone actually is and you know race and so on as well but I mean large hands atoms apples you probably still have a penis you know and so are you going to fix all that are you going to excuse the language chop off your cock are you going to get feminization surgery of your entire face like just looking at me and you like two ordinary guys like I'm not going to pass as a woman go ahead there's a hey bro element to my feature yeah I forget it was a some child were they were talking about this and at the end of school and she got punished because you know she said if you come upon a graveyard and somehow excavated whatever inadvertently you know you can identify every male and female young animal and you take out the pelvis and they're just different I mean that makes sense because you know we all had to kind of squeeze through the birth canal and and so women have wider hips and you know this kind of equalization where they're supposed to be the military they're supposed to be you know guarding huge six foot four angry prisoners all the kind of stuff and it always always leads to to mayhem and and it's

28:59a craziness you know in women's sports you know they're far more ACL injuries per you know my I'll run per sport done so I'm not saying they're more men getting it because more men more do do more active things but but on a proportional basis per activity women get more ACL tears and it comes down simply because they're their their their legs are you know men's legs are kind of straight up and down you know we're more linear creatures and women because they have the wider hips their their their legs come down angled inwards and so when they they they they're running they're going to have more torsional pressure if you ever you know how Thanksgiving you know you can pull off the drumstick you need to put that lateral pressure on it so they get the ACL which is you know and so they're not necessarily built for the same stuff obviously you know people know they have this thing now we're cadence the cadence Clarks not getting as much as a victor when manama now she's getting like I don't know a hundred or thousand of what he's making but but you know but the it's not the same sport they're not doing the same stuff people don't watch it for

30:01the same reason you know they're not seeing the best athletes on earth we have yet to see a you know a woman you know whatever form whatever hormones you know play in the NBA and you never will you might very well see him you've seen obviously men you know dominate and ruin women's sports no man that's exactly correctly and I think that's the reason why gender dysphoria is so hard to deal with like there are hundreds I don't know the exact number thousands of differences between men and women like every cell in your body is chromosomely coded to reflect your sex like 23 and me actually has a whole kind of apologetic page where these professional geneticists are forced to talk about this nonsense and they say like yes if you identify as trans and you submit your genetic profile the 23 and me you know please tell us that you are trans so we won't list your sex because all we can do is find your biological sex there's no genetic coding for the gender of

31:04non-binary, sapiosexual or whatever and we will always know your biological sex a blood sample a urine sample a saliva sample will all reveal it I mean so it's it's darkly funny but yeah you can you can never get through all those differences um and so 10 years later if you got top but not bottom surgery as a male and you're living in female dress every day I mean you still you look down and you you see nuts I mean you're you have you see burly legs that have took you through a high school varsity career I mean it's there's no way to get around it and I think the real way to treat this would be to focus on it's not a problem isn't hardware not matching software if you will it's software not matching hardware so it seems to me the best yeah the best way to look at this would be to treat and that's that's fairly original but not holy I mean I've heard people say it in debates and conferences and so on the the best way to treat this it strikes me would be to talk about the mental condition of gender dysphoria you feel this way and you can dress however you

32:07want this isn't especially homophobic society anymore when you have to respect women's spaces you have to do this and that because you are not actually a member of the other sex whatever you think you're doing the whole phrase is is you know axiomatically uh oxymoronic uh those to say I like that axiomatically oxymoronic I can be even more rock and roll band uh nobody nobody would show nobody be able to buy the obnoxically hamper announce it but but basically you can't be a member of the opposite x because then takes away the word opposite you know so um so so no you know an imaginary number can't be the number one just by definition because you've already found anyway I do agree with you I think that the software problems that were you know the brain is not really software it's softer than in other parts of your body but um it is it is the you that's you know when you when you see that that woman ash the guy who was dressed as woman uh arguing

33:07that Ben Shapiro wants to take him out and you know punch him up or kill him and you see there's a guy at the convenience store it's like call me maim I'm sure you've seen that video you know those are those are human beings who have male brains and whatever else you want to put on it is not going to change that that's a male aggression and there there's no you know shorter of that kind of acting out it's like you're not calling me a woman I'm gonna beat your face in I mean that is not a woman thing now and it's also kind of ironic since we kind of mentioned race peripherally that you know race and ethnicity which are a blur um you know we all have uh we're all months of one type or another um and I mean with the exception of Liz Warren you know who's you know but but if you do if you are Liz Warren you say you're uh and you try to profit by the the spoil system say you're uh you know American Indian Native American um or your Rachel Dolezal and you want to head the NCAA but your white or I think the Sean White who should have changed his name first to Sean Black

34:08any any of these people it's like that that's a problem you know no you are not black no you and you know unless what it serves as a purpose like George Zimmer being a white Hispanic or whatever that happens to be but but these things are somehow somehow like these these categories these silos that people are in and sex which is an actual category in silo it's binary and you can't be non-binary when there are only two things you know that that that is somehow a blur so so when you mess with the language I mean you know the I mean just the phrase non-binary is is you know there's two types of this two types of field binary and non-binary let me do three types yeah no I mean I think that's pretty much correct I mean it's simply put the reason you can't be trans-racial according to activists is that would completely destroy the grift I mean you know and I can see this from both sides like I'm a black guy I still do see some residual racism in society but I also I mean I recognize how my group of friends benefited from affirmative actions so on so there's this whole thing set up with the two sides and kind of world war one era trench positions when it comes to race and it would

35:12completely end unannoying but ongoing conflict for white guys just to be able to say I'm black like that's that's the end of it if you can identify as black there's then this entire world that opens up can you apply for a society or for a scholarship offered by the society of black mechanical engineers like it it's just over there's no affirmative action there's no reparations it's impossible to distinguish who's a real black person from a fake black person using IDs and so on so I think that's why that has to be stopped like yeah in reality now the thing that's interesting about this is you can make the same claims about sex like when people say well black people are in one legal sense the recipients of affirmative action benefits from society that's also true for women I mean if you were to say well black people are in one legal sense a group that's been terribly abused by society it could make a clay level reparations claim I mean that's also true for women so I don't really see that many differences one of the things that

36:17is a distinguisher here is that the major feminist groups are almost all not just politically but culturally left and so when the trans argument was started to be made like okay we've identified a group that's even more oppressed than isolated than women and all other good women should support this group feminists who are more empathic who are mostly social liberals just went along with it and so they kind of got eaten out from the inside I mean like all of these people all of this huge chunk of people that identifies like you know beyond the B is what it's often said like TQK for TANK plus like all those people just started moving into the feminist in gay movement like yeah this is ours now you let us in so it's feminist or caught in there it's actually a huge split between like lip thins and turf as you sure you know where like a bunch of feminists are saying no look like we don't hate men but the whole point of feminism as we think we're still somewhat oppressed and we want these policies against prostitution hardcore pornography discrimination in the workplace and then

37:19there's another bunch of feminists because they let in all the sex workers all the men who identify as women's son they're like no I happen to be a whore who is non-binary and let me tell you and so like the organizations can't come to coherent votes on anything like as a guy it is funny that I mean that's funny that's funny there's a there's a category called when when I didn't invent this term but I'm not it's not a great term but when liberal piety is collide for you have all these things that they this they can't possibly work together so we've been listening to Wilford Riley on sex identity feminism and what happens when political categories begin working against each other after the break we move from those contradictions into the broader political coalition constructed around them this is America out of the pulse always a beat ahead have you been looking for a healthy snack for on the go well not all energy bars are soft and sugary bear bars or crunchy savory bar made from just six simple natural ingredients

38:21bear bars are plant-based organic gluten-free contain six grams of protein and are low temperature dry for unique crunch most energy bars are based on chocolate or fruit and are held together with serps or sweeteners to learn more just visit bearbar.com slash out loud I'm Doug Evans author of the sprout book and I'm also a father with a three year old daughter and that's why we grow sprouts did you know that you could take seeds add water and get fresh organic vegetables in three to five days without soil sunshine or fertilizer for under a dollar serving that's the miracle of spouting and I want to share that with you go to the spouting company.com slash out loud and use the code out loud for a special offer so welcome back for our third and final second I'm Dr. Randobot

39:24back with Wilford Riley we have been talking about the collision of liberal piety's one against the other when you have these things that are contradictory but they don't seem that way from beginning from there the conversation wides into the political coalitions and social policy near the end we turn to another subject that has occupied much of my own work the opioid epidemic. and a lot of the times there's a pretend element like what you see now with you know gays for for Hamas you know this is pretend aspects because we're all against the man whoever that is it might be me actually I got it I yeah I got I'm wearing a tie you know I'm less tan than you etc anyway but but it's like so so we're all against the man and the man I guess is Israel I guess although they weren't the man you know in world war two uh Germany are you know 20th century or during the incoction or whatever I always tell people is like I'm Jewish it's like you know since we control the world you know I I think we should do

40:26a far better job at it you know since we control the press you know we should really get you know better better you know opinion pieces or Israel yeah we're doing a crappy job of controlling the world and the narrative because it doesn't seem to be working out and demonstrate anyway um but it's uh you know but what obviously the liberal piety collides we would kind of collide in real time if the gays wound up in Hamas plan Hamasistan um where has ball of stand or or you know ISIS land or whatever you know whatever peace of Lebanon and Gaza etc you know it's not gonna it's not gonna work out and and you know this these all these concepts of I'm binary queer um latte coca coca you know mocha latte grande whatever you happen to be at that moment you know that that's not gonna work out in in in Ramallah it's not gonna work out even in Aman it's not gonna work out in Cairo it's not gonna work you know you know you can just go off the the the ISIS route to do an offstandard um caxuma whatever and it's not gonna work out for you know but but but but this is

41:32this is with whom in no pun intended you want to go to bed uh I mean I don't I don't know how that works out yeah I think it's it's a strategic miscalculation so I mean Barack Obama called this the coalition of the fringes which is still the best term I've heard for it but the idea is we can take everyone that feels outside the mainstream and unify them together and take down the mainstream but there are a couple of problems with that like first of all if you throw in women or even feminists the percentage of people that are outside the mainstream is like 80% of the population so it's everyone and it's people that really are in no way suffering at all the black business community Asians upper class wives I mean it it doesn't make sense but the ideas you're gonna take down basically it is you would be the educated coastal or great lakes white guy in a suit and tie that's who every time you see a villain depicted in posters going back to occupy that's who it is and you know the white guy or the Jewish guys holding like a bag of money in one hand and the world in the other you know so that's the idea we're going to go against the bankers or the one

42:38percent the white layers like the different ways it's put and we're gonna take them down with the COF the coalition of the fringes I mean we I've been blah blah blah I'm about this little the the problem just very simply is that the members of the coalition of the fringes have nothing in common and hate one another right so I mean there's really just there's nothing that feminism and Islam haven't common what's that no I said no I said there's no I wasn't coming up with like a very clever example I'm saying that there's nothing that feminism and Islam haven't common there's nothing that small union workers and illegal immigrants have it common I know it's a great thing that trans people in England literally they call their their Democrat party the labor party and how is it working out for labor you know the the people who are labor in in in England where the labor party would ostensibly be labor came from labor they don't want to vote for them because they don't care about the people there who have jobs and so they're they're you know the nice word for crap upon you know they're just they're there's a kind of the Democrats have turned its globalists

43:41and they somehow they're getting you know I think they're probably bribe this kind of a mafiochacy they they are getting money kind of the system they're eating the trout and they're just churning and and the the actual working man you know this concept of populism is is totally by the wayside there's a huge disdain for the working man everywhere and and then funny thing I was just thinking of the late I think it's late Robert Mugabe you know when when when Rhodesia you know did well there's two Rhodesia there was north and south and south Rhodesia uh Harari government I guess there was a movement that I found before I forget anyway when they got rid of Ian Smith and and put it in Mr. Mugabe a thousand years ago um you know so so and and the white's pretty much left um you know I crime disappeared um inequity disappeared uh you know the world got better prosperity turned into Wakanda am I right not quite now so so so you take away you take away the

44:46white man and things are not better in the Congo for you know I mean I'm I'm saying that I'm not saying it would be better if they're white there but but it's like humans are humans I mean for god we're gonna say it's like you know we were all uh ostensibly made in the image of God and we have our our issues you know we have good stuff invasive and it doesn't really fall along racial aspects I mean every group of people have had the same problem the reason the bible resonates you know it's written thousands of years ago for you know tribes you know without cell phones and and front front I understand without the internet even um you know but but the stories stories resonate because humans have been doing human crap and whether some tribe you can't pronounce the name of her not you know that these these stories resonate we're really a creature of stories and and and we're a creature of relationships and so forth and these things are are you know people are trying to go into very strange little cul-de-sacs not just surgically but emotionally and they they they they they're doing this for the rest of their lives they're doing at age 15 or 20 for the rest of their

45:47lives and and the numbers don't go backwards and the surgeries don't go backwards and it's just so ill-advised for physicians do this dr. manglette uh could not even have thought of some of this stuff yeah there's there's a lot there I mean the last line I think is a good closing line like yeah we are we are now because of the current upper middle class religious philosophy doing things that would have made some of the Nazis in most of the Inquisition blush the the justification the justification as well it's good I mean it's uh we can't disenfranchise the already minoritized or something but I'm sure the Inquisition and the Nazis had lengthy written quasi philosophical justifications for what they were doing in fact I know they did I've read them um so yeah that that's one point I think the broader issue with the coalition of the fringes model is that it it just can't work it includes everybody the groups dislike one another and the mugabe thing is actually a worthwhile point because another obvious issue is if you're a leader and you're a competent one we both probably fall in this category that you're not just doing things to do them

46:51you're doing things for a practical reason which is that you think they'll improve society and whether or not you think that our society today is a bit unfair to minorities or a bit unfair to whites if you look at affirmative action the reality is that our society today works pretty well so when you look at something like would implementing a more socialist country with a congress mandatorily made up 40% plus of members of minority groups and so on and on other crazy things that have been thrown out by the AOCs of the world would that improve life for the people in the country no of course not would reparations improve life for the non-black 88% of the country or no of course not so there's there's a point not only that this group of people working together don't have anything in common but also a more important point that the solutions they want are bad and hopefully hopefully people continue to pay attention to that going forward yeah i'm gonna we're gonna i think we're heading out uh rounding out the hour here uh so i want to appreciate your time i just wanted to pop in uh the thing we we mentioned earlier

47:53but i'm working on um i'm working on an article on uh the whoops this let's see what we got here this is oh just for people to to find you this is your your um twitter fee and so your willford roly and you've got this uh i'm not i got a quote it there but if you'll confine you and um i think i wanted to talk about uh was um we might we were talking about early as an article i'm hope to publish soon um and i'll leave the venue uh unnamed yet but i'm gonna i think i'll spot for this but my article is on is on the the uh the mist the the unknown and the neglected first wave of the opioid epidemic i don't spend too much time in this but um if you go to the cdc you'll see three waves of the opioid epidemic of the one but they're all the 21st century oxy-contin cheaper heroin fentanyl um but you know they look they they're missing the the the original bomb the first wave was in 1970s and there's basically coincide with methanol where there was from methanol we can't

48:57really say but this is a this is an actual wave these these are our gradual increases but and your plants are growing here might the analogy i come up with is in order to have plants grow you need good soil this was the soil laid and if you look even uh deeper um before we get to this um the the actual uh there was actually basically no narcotic usage in the united states between we're over two in the 1960s or so and it had gone down from opium use in the early 20th 20th century down to zero and and then it grew and massively up for further than before but the part i was going to talk about was uh about race i was mentioning earlier is that um uh uh a kint of that uh went central quote um where socialism is basically the equality of misery um this was this was 1960s heroin usage which was a tiny tiny fraction but only one one hundredth of what we have today 35,000 narcotic addicts in the country and half of them were in New York City which was only 4%

50:00of the population at the time and so non-whites which in this case pretty much only black Americans after American gave me um comprised almost half the entire usage of the time in the country this number looks like it's going down i wouldn't get any better uh amongst the non-whites but in fact the numbers stay the same which was seven times higher than the whites and what's did it change is that whites have gotten seven times more likely to use opioids um i i i i just put that out there i'd love to get your thoughts on that um and uh maybe we'll have that for another day but i'd love to come back on and talk about that just just briefly i think that's interesting that's something i've obviously published well it's something i've never really thought about before um and so you're saying part of the cause of this death was the introduction well actually i'll just say what i think is most notable about this i mean so it seems like you're saying part of the causes the cause of this rise in death was the introduction of methadone into society so on down the line but like looking at the graphics that are in the piece from sources like jammis

51:00psychiatry and so on one of the things that's worth noting is that prohibition seemed to have worked or the general culture of kind of a program around drug use around binge drinking it looked like one of those graphs is from the the y-axis site getting your drink on or whatever but what you saw was in the early 1900s you had a bunch of drunks i assume as well but you had a bunch of probably at the time opium smokers you had more than 500,000 of these addicts across the big cities and that drops to zero i mean you told me the figure's probably about 30,000 lobe measurable but then it increases into the millions as we go toward this disease model treatment model of addiction then that's something that we've seen over and over i mean the great times saw as a whole book about this division of the anointed or he says that in our society there we've consistently seen these waves of experts looking at very minor problems like teen pregnancy in the 1940s and saying a specific thing which is that we need to resolve this by destigmatizing the behavior causing it and looking for the root causes

52:01so there was teen pregnancy there was welfare use you've got drug addiction here so I'm done the line and in every case what you basically see is that after the destigmatization fully explain the behavior remove the appropriate model was adopted while you know the root causes were being hunted for oj style you see just this thousand percent increase in the thing so i mean like obviously i pay attention to the black family is a you know black or mixed businessman uh black illegitimacy has not been a long term national problem in the USA black families used to be more stable than ethnic white families since it's not disputed what happened is that in 1938 the black illegitimacy rates about 11 percent and you see the first free great society welfare programs by 1960 when senator Moynihan wrote it's a 21 percent and from that point forward as you go into the great society as you go into the sexual revolution as you go into what's called cloud pivoting the welfare distributional strategy you get up to our peak with 73 percent out of wedlock birth which is insane

53:04i mean well-aided rate yeah so that's that's this is the pattern we've seen before you're right you're spot on you know it's basically you know progressive ruin everything and and the the the the analogy is there um that you know people i mean Charles Murray covers this really well in coming apart uh you read that the the the the the the white elite or it could be any elite but you know at that time it was white white elite has all these uh ideas about how to fix the impoverish and they apply kind of a liberty um motif to them so they give them the free drugs they give them the you know the free method on free needles uh free condoms uh this and they're imputing not to quote Michael Gerson uh the the no they're they're low uh they're soft bigotry of low expectations they don't think that the underclass can figure life out the way they have and the way they did they need these these extra special helpers to deal with their um urges and so forth

54:07you know i kind of think it's a jungly aspect you know it's you spikedly uh kind of terminology um i personally think that um the method on uh as a concept emanated from from fear of the black man pouring into the wealthier neighbors in New York City in crime i think i think if it happened somewhere else uh if there was some different distribution we wouldn't see in fact the New York City was kind of the intellectual um um theoretical uh you know theorizing the capital of the United States and not the world at the time in the 1960s um they they were felt threatened by a rising crime and was coming from black neighborhoods and i think there's the other in a sense and they had the spirit and they didn't think that that they would those urges could be canceled out by any other way except by giving them what they wanted and maybe if we gave them what they wanted they won't do any crime i think it's an appeasement strategy it's kind of level chamberland comes to opium that's a really great line and i've probably got a fade out of the uh the pod in a second but yeah i think one of my final comment would probably be what's interesting here is what

55:11hasn't been tried and i think when you ask well what could solve these terrible problems in black communities or poor white communities a good starting point would be the solutions that the members of the upper class would apply to themselves and their families if they had these problems i mean like we're neither of us is polar i mean i have friends that have had kids struggle with drug addiction what do you do you throw the kid in a tough rehab facility where it can't get drugs so he goes cold turkey and his miserable stop taking drugs i mean like it's you know you get a good psychologist on it i mean you get he goes to jail i mean like there are there are set specific solutions that any normal person would implement if their wife became a drug addict you've got to go here for this period of time and dry out or it's over i mean if we did the same things with one unquote the powers we would find the same positive results you we did find the same positive results that's the thing i mean that that graphic where there were zero visible heroin addicts that includes black people that includes Irish and Italian Americans in the cities it includes Mexican immigrants starting to come in none of those people were doing all this dope either so if

56:15we already know what works there's this weird pseudo moral argument that we shouldn't be able to do it because it's somehow bad or harsh and i totally reject that like it's much worse or harsh shirt to force poor women to live with drug addicted boyfriends and so on that it is to make people not take heroin so final note there probably all right perfect that's all for today remember every myth has a solution and every truth has the power to transform your health find us in America out loud pulse radio every Friday at five in eastern or on demand wherever you get your podcasts secure stay informed and we'll see you next week America out loud pulse always be to head