Transgender women athletes banned from female Olympic events

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This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service.

I'm Janet Gillil, and in the early hours of Friday, the 27th of March, these are our main

stories. Transgender athletes are to be banned from women's sports at the next Olympics.

President Trump gives Iran 10 more days to agree a peace seal or face attacks on the country's

power plants. Also in this podcast, the Manchester City striker, Eiling Holland,

denotes a rare and ancient book on Vikings to his hometown in Norway.

Ellinger is proud to where he comes from, and he gives us a big huge gift to Brenner,

and we're so grateful and thankful for that.

After years of controversies involving transgender athletes, it's been announced that women

sports at the Olympics will be ring-fenced for athletes who are biologically female.

The International Olympic Committee says that the ruling will take effect from

2028 at the next Games in Los Angeles. Under the new rules, transgender women,

or those with differences in sexual development or DSD, will no longer be able to compete in

female events. The IOC says a once-in-a-lifetime sex test will be introduced before those games.

Here's the IOC President, Kirstie Coventry.

The policy that we have announced is based on science, and it has been led by medical experts

with the based interests of athletes at its heart. The scientific evidence is very clear.

Male chromosomes give performance advantages in sports that rely on strength,

power, or endurance. At the Olympic Games, even the smallest margins

can be the difference between victory and defeat, so it's absolutely clear that it would not

be fair for biological males to compete in the female category. In addition, in some sports,

it would simply not be safe. Our sports editor, Dan Rowan, has been looking at how the decision

was reached and what it means. It is a really significant decision this by the IOC,

because for years now, they and indeed other major sports bodies have been wrestling with this

debate over how they should balance fairness and safety on the one hand with inclusion on the

other, and the IOC has faced a number of controversies over the years when it comes to the participation

of either transgender athletes, athletes who are biological males who identify as women,

or DSD athletes, those born with differences of sexual development who have male chromosomes,

and how they can regulate their eligibility for female competition amid a lot of debate.

I think it's a reflection of just how sensitive an area of policy it is that the IOC

who have traditionally left it to international sports to decide on their policies for female

competition have now undergone this major shift. It does mean a blanket ban on transgender

athletes and DSD athletes from women's sport. I think that will be welcomed by many who

have long felt that such a move is needed if fairness and safety is to be preserved,

and they say that this genetic test that it will rely upon has been recently rolled out successfully

in sports like athletics and boxing as well. It's, they say, reliable and proportionate,

has the backing of some sports scientists, along with the vast majority of athletes they say,

and it's more humane than requiring athletes to lower their natural testosterone levels, as we've

seen in the past, but there are opponents who remain very concerned that the approach is invasive,

it could be unreliable, it may be disproportionate, given the numbers that we're talking about,

and there could be potential false positives, and in fact a number of academics early this month

called sex testing a backward step, harmful anachronism, and that it violated the human rights of

athletes and could create stigma. So this will, I think, still be the source of much controversy,

even though the IOC will hope that it helps draw a line under these years of debate.

Dan Rowan. Well, as Dan mentioned there, the response has been sharply divided.

Supporters say it's a necessary step to protect fairness and safety in the female category,

while critics say the move risks excluding athletes and undermining inclusion in sport.

One of those opposed to the ban is Alexandra Zanthaki, the UN special rapporteur in the field

of cultural rights, and Professor of Law at Brunel University here in the UK.

The way we define women at the moment is, you know, the basis of gender, of experiences,

on society and how we view ourselves and how society views us. So it is really undermining

to create this debate that it has been created out of nowhere in the past, you know, kind of three,

four years now between so-called women and so-called mails identifying themselves as women.

We continue to be very exclusive and we continue to violate the right of these people

to identify themselves the way they have chosen. One of those welcoming the decision is the former

British Olympic swimmer and a longtime campaigner on women's sports Sharon Davies. She spoke to

women athletes have been sidelined and I can guarantee you that if you poll women athletes

today, they would tell you that they want fair and safe sport. Women get 5% of all the money

that's in the world of sport and so to remove fair and safe sport is also just ridiculously unfair

and this doesn't happen to men's sport. And I think what's also really interesting is that

trans identifying females, so so trans men, we've seen those competing in the Olympic Games

in the women's category and providing they're not taking testosterone. None of the women

had a problem with that. What about the larger category which is judging by what's happened in

the past? This is a large category in those with what are defined as yes, DSD. So sex differences,

developmental differences in sex. Some of those differences are supposed to be picked up by this test

but even the man who designed the test, this is the SLY test, says it shouldn't, this is Professor

Andrew Sinclair, says it shouldn't be used to establish biological sex because all it tells you

is whether or not a gene is present, it doesn't tell you how it's functioning, whether a test is

or whether testosterone is produced and is so whether it can be used by the body, it's a really

crude measure. Well, I disagree, you know, and obviously the IOC disagree and they've had all the

medical experts in there today, you know, and for the last several months working on this,

what the SLY gene does is, as you say, it's a gene that sits on the Y chromosome, only males have Y

chromosomes and so that turns on puberty and that is what they're looking for, they're looking for

the puberty advantage that biological males have which means that it's unfair to compete against

females. And so that is the whole point of this, right? You know, it's to give female athletes the

opportunity to have the same sporting chance as biological males get. I'm interested by your point

about advantage because there are other forms of genetic advantage, aren't there, which some people

have. But you don't have races for people with long arms or big feet, right? So when this comes

along and people go, oh, Michael Phelps had very long arms and a very long body and was extremely

successful, all of Michael Phelps' world records have gone. With their space of four years of him

retiring, they were beaten by other males. Now, the difference between male and female performance

at the Olympic Games ranges between 10% and 30%. In boxing, it's 160% that a male will punch you.

Do you feel any female? Do you feel any sympathy for those who find themselves in this category now

and who will be excluded as a result? I am frustrated for women that it's taken 26 years but

has to be able to get back to a point where women are considered worthy of fair sport. And what we

could have been doing is working out ways to include everybody without throwing women's sport under

the bus. And this, you know, there's a fantastic statistic in America that shows the 50% of CEOs

of major companies, female CEOs and major companies in America came through sport. Now, if we take

those opportunities away from one young girl, what are we telling them? We're telling them they're

not worthy of fair sport. So, you know, this is based on science and the science wasn't used and

that long last the science is now being used and so it should be. Former Olympicswimmer, Sharon Davies,

let's turn now to the war in the Middle East. And once again, President Trump has delayed the

deadline he's given to Iran for it to reach a deal with the US or face attacks on its power plants.

Initially, he gave Iran 48 hours, then an extra five days. Now he's given it 10 days more

until Monday the 6th of April. Mr. Trump told Fox News that he is the opposite of desperate

claiming that it's Iran and not him that's begging to make a deal.

Importantly, they said to me very nicely through my people, could we have more time because we're

talking about tomorrow night, which is pretty quick. And so I gave them a 10-day period. They

asked for seven. You're going to say, oh, Trump's a terrible negotiator. They asked for seven. And I

said, I'm going to give you 10 and they were very thankful about that. Now they may say, oh, we're

not speaking. I don't like that because that wasn't true the last time as you found out. But

we are speaking. And it's going fairly well. And so I gave them 10 days.

But the regime denies its negotiating with the US. And four weeks into the war, it retains an

iron grip on Iran despite Israel's campaign of assassinations. As Hydra-like, every senior figure

killed is replaced by another hardliner. With Iran blockading the vital oil route,

the state of Hormuz, oil prices have soared and stock markets have fallen,

increasing the pressure on Mr. Trump. Meanwhile, thousands of additional US troops are being

deployed to the Middle East amid speculation that they could be used in a future ground operation

in Iran. Our diplomatic correspondent James Landel gave us his take on President Trump's

latest ultimatum to Iran. We should take this with a pinch of salt. Donald

Transrelationship with deadlines is how can I put it slightly fluid? The first thing it does,

though, is it really buys him time. It buys him time for diplomacy. If that's what he wants to do,

we do know that messages are being exchanged between both the US and Iran here through

intermediaries. There's talk of a possible meeting in Pakistan at some stage. Yes, diplomatic

expectations are very low. But Donald Trump insists he can call them talks and they are going

very well. But also remember, this potentially buys him time to assemble more military

reforms. There is an amphibious group of US Marines on its way from Japan. There is a group of

American thousands of American power troopers on their way from California. They will take

a bit of time to come. But remember, this deadline only refers to US attacks on Iranian

energy targets. So in other words, I think the likelihood is that we're just going to see a

continuation of this war of attrition, continuing US and Israeli attacks. Remember, they

killed a very senior Iranian naval commander overnight, the man who's in charge of

restricting traffic through the straight-of-formers. And I think that's the key point.

If this pours, this does go on for another 10 days, that means another 10 days of no traffic,

largely no traffic through the straight-of-formers, and all of that damage to the global economy.

James Landau, I asked our US correspondent Peter Bose whether the president was looking to find

a way to end the war or simply trying to gain time while reinforcements arrive.

Well, it would appear on the surface it's a gain more time scenario, although it is quite difficult,

as we've just been hearing there from James, to really fully understand the strategy here.

We know that Donald Trump, as you said earlier in the week announced 48 hours, then this five

day pours on strikes against Iran's energy infrastructure that five days due to expire very soon

on Friday. The president saying when he announced that that very good and productive conversations

aimed at a complete and total resolution of hostilities were underway, although Iran has denied

that talks are underway to end the war. And just to share exactly what he said in his latest

truth social post, he said, as per Iranian government requests. Now we have no independent

verification of this supposed Iranian government request, but he says, please let this statement

serve to represent that I am pausing the period of energy plant destruction by 10 days.

He goes on to say that talks are ongoing and going very well. This is a very one-sided assessment

of the situation. And meanwhile, pressure is intensifying on him all the time with falling

approval ratings, thinking stock markets, rising all prices and prices at the pump rising as well.

And therein may lie some would say the reasoning behind this latest pause. The immediate impact

of this 10-day extension has been a slight easing of pressure on crude oil prices, which are

rising again for much of Thursday. It's the kind of news to some extent that the markets want to

hear. And maybe it addresses some of the growing concerns of Americans who are nervous about the

volatility of the markets, the impact on petrol prices. And I think most of all a level of frustration

that's very difficult, as I say, really to understand the president's strategy here without any

clear indication of when or particularly how this war or as the president is now calling it

a military operation is going to end. He likes to keep people guessing. He likes to give surprises.

So let's say there was to be an attack this week that he was to put boots on the ground.

What risks would that entail for the president? That possibility has existed since the war started

at the end of last month. Two days ago there were similar reports about the Pentagon planning to

send thousands of troops. It would clearly come with huge risks to the president and indeed those

troops, if they are deployed, the potential for more loss of life, American lives certainly wouldn't

sit well with people here far from it. And remember Donald Trump's promise, political promise

not to start wars, was still seven months away from the midterm elections, which could be so

crucial for this president's second term or the final two years. And a nation at war then would

be very risky for Mr. Trump as the election campaign gets underway during the coming months.

Peter Bose, well, amid those concerns, the Iran war could cost President Trump and the Republicans

to support the voters in the run up to the midterm elections. This year's US conservative political

action conference is a chance for him to rally his traditionally loyal base. Thousands of activists

and lawmakers are attending the gathering in Texas this week. Among the featured speakers are

President Trump's former adviser, Steve Bannon, a forceful opponent of the war, and his one-time

rival, the Republican Senator Ted Cruz, a strong supporter of military action against Iran.

Also there is our correspondent, Anthony Zürker.

For the mood here at CPAC, it's like many CPACs. It's a celebration of being conservative.

It's a celebration of being among like-minded, political ideologues, although I'm just walking

out of a protest of pro-regime change Iranians in favor of Reza Palavi. And they are very excited

about the Iran war and about the progress that has been made. And in their view, the necessity of

that. Now, when I get inside CPAC's halls, the Iranian activists are there as well. But there's

also concern among the rank and file conservatives I've talked to. Some trust Donald Trump. They

trust that he's going to find a way out of this war. They trust that he started it for a good

reason. But there are others particularly younger conservatives who are concerned that this sounds

a lot like the kind of forever wars, the kind of Middle East wars that Trump campaigned against

and that they remember from 2003 in the Iraq war. Here are a few of the voices I spoke with over

the course of the day. I'm happy with it. I've talked to many Iranians and they they're happy with

it. They want the dictatorship out of the way and they want the people to have a vote.

Democratic country like the United States. I'm kind of mixed on that. I'm not sure if that was

the right call. I don't know the answers. I'm not a politician. I don't know like the ins and

outs of it. I think a lot of times we as like citizens we know what we see on the news and we know

what we hear but we don't know the behind the scenes of it. President Trump ran on the promise

that we were going to have no new wars. I think that many Republicans look at something like the war

in Iran right now which didn't receive congressional authorization and wasn't something that would

be authorized through the war power's acts is something that concerns us. An Anthony the war in

Iran has been a big focus but the release of the Epstein files has also divided Trump's

supporters too. It has and typically when I talk to conservatives it's something that comes up.

But they used to be really big advocates of releasing the files of transparency. The Epstein

files aren't coming up here and many of the people who are at this conference while they disagree

over Iran are also talking about trying to find sources of unity because they understand that with

the midterm congressional elections coming up in November their party is on its back heels and if

they don't stick together and they don't turn out to vote they could very well lose control of the

U.S. Congress. And Anthony outside the U.S. a lot of people are very alarmed about what Donald

Trump has started in the Middle East but among his core supporters he still still has a lot of

backing. Can you explain to us more why that is for people outside the United States?

Well the one thing about Donald Trump's base is that it is overwhelmingly loyal. They have stuck

with the president from the beginning from 2015 when he began his presidential campaign through

his first term, through the COVID pandemic, through his attempts to contest the 2020 election during

his time out of office and now that he's back in office it's going to take a lot for them to

break with his president. So when I do talk to them the thing that they say is that they are

willing to give Donald Trump the benefit of the doubt. They know he promised them no forever wars,

no wars in the Middle East but they're willing to trust that he has a plan even if he hasn't

shared it and he is going to find a way out of this war that leaves America better than it was when

it went in. Anthony Zirka

Still to come in this podcast Paul McCartney surprises his many fans by announcing his first

new album for more than five years. Just a lot of memories of Liverpool for me and that

involves a little bit in the middle about John fourthland road street I used to live in.

Hey there it's Ryan Seacrest for Safeway. It's stock up savings time. Now through April 2nd,

spring in for store-wide deals and earn four times of points. Look for in-store tags to earn

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go pick up or delivery. Restrictions apply. See website for full terms and conditions.

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Hi, this is Alex Cantrowitz. I'm the host of Big Technology podcast, a longtime reporter and an

on-air contributor to CNBC. And if you're like me, you're trying to figure out how artificial

intelligence is changing the business world and our lives. So each week on Big Technology,

I bring on key actors from companies building AI tech and outsiders trying to influence it.

Asking where this is all going, they come from places like Nvidia, Microsoft, Amazon and plenty more.

So if you want to be smart with your wallet, your career choices and meetings with your

colleagues and at dinner parties, listen to Big Technology podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

This is the Global News Podcast. Nearly three months since the then Venezuelan president,

Nicholas Maduro and his wife were seized by US forces. They have made their second

appearance in a New York courtroom. The judge appeared sympathetic to their claim that they should

be allowed to pay for their defense with Venezuelan government funds. As Net Atophic, our correspondent

there explained. You know, the judge really was sympathetic to the defense here and really

signaled that he would be ruling in their favor. For one, he said that the right to defense

was paramount in the Constitution and outweighed what he viewed as past concerns about national

security because prosecutors have argued that sanctions in place which block the ability of

the Venezuelan government to fund Nicholas Maduro and his wife's defense are based on national

security and foreign policy concerns. But the judge said that the fact that the two are now in

detention means they pose no ongoing threat. And he also noted that the US government is now

working with the Venezuelan government. So he said the sanctions that have been in place since

the Obama era really aren't that relevant anymore. And he suggested that if he can't directly

order the US treasury to issue a license to block the sanctions in this case, that the government

should come up with some other remedy because he agreed with the defense here. It's always hard to

predict this, but do we have any idea of an ultimate time scale? How long this goes on for?

Look, I think if anything, this hearing really underscored how drawn out and long this legal process

is going to be for one, this was supposed to be a hearing to set out key dates and scheduling

for this trial. We haven't even gotten to that. We certainly don't have a trial date set.

And some of the far more weightier issues, you know, Nicholas Maduro's defense lawyer had

signaled that he would bring up that Nicholas Maduro had immunity as a head of state.

The counter argument to that is that the US government says they haven't recognized him as

the president of Venezuela since elections in 2018 that they say were essentially flawed and rigged.

And so these are other weightier issues that the parties haven't even been able to get to because

of this fundamental concern about who will be paying the Maduro's lawyers. So what we have seen

today in court is that this could be months or even years before a trial gets underway.

I'll just briefly note a sense of the mood both inside and outside, especially from

Venice, swalens who are around court today. Yeah, inside the Maduro's, you know,

physically their appearance hasn't changed much, but their demeanor was very different.

Maduro didn't shout out in court. They remained quiet, but outside high tensions, both those in

support of Maduro and against him, clashing at one point here, clearly tensions still high.

Neutrophics speaking to anchor desire. Now he's sold more than 500 million records worldwide

from the early days of the Beatles to his solo projects. And on Thursday, Paul McCartney

surprised fans by announcing his first new album for more than five years, the Boys of Dungeon Lane.

It's named after a road he used to walk down as a child on his way to go birdwatching.

Because of copyright restrictions, we're unable to play you some of the new single

days we left behind. But Paul McCartney was able to give us a flavour in a BBC interview,

describing the music as a collection of memories he hadn't shared before.

So anyway, this is the past, you know, it's just a lot of memories of Liverpool for me,

and that involves a little bit in the middle about John,

Fourthland Road, which is where I, street I used to live in.

John Keats is director of the Cavern Club in Liverpool, the world famous venue where the Beatles

played hundreds of times. What does he make of the new song?

I think it's lovely. What's lovely about it is he's using his voice, which is the voice he's

got now. You know, when you go see Paul McCartney now, and it drives me insane when people go,

oh, his voice isn't what it used to be. You know, have you ever tried singing those songs from

like when he was in his early 20s? But his, the tone of his voice on this record is the voice

of Paul now, and then given the lyrical content and the context of it. It's beautiful and

beautiful production as well. It's like anything the Beatles put out or Paul puts out you,

you know, it's going to be good. Not just because, oh, it's the Beatles, it's going to, they

wouldn't put anything out. It's like, it's like the fourth common films that everybody says,

well, you know, what you take on the films, you know, what are they going to be? I said, well,

considering the Beatles themselves and Apple are behind them, and it's Sam Mendez, they're not

going to mess it up. You know, it's that sort of thing. So this, which we haven't had a big lead

up, there was teasers yesterday about the album coming out. So that's okay. And how amazing

that a guy who's, it's not just a guy, it's Paul McCartney's 84 in June, releases a new song

and the world will go insane about it. John keeps of the Kevin Club. The Manchester City striker,

Eileen Holland is considered one of the best footballers in the world and the greatest Norwegian

player of all time. But not content with inspiring people in Norway through his success on the

pitch. He also wants to do so through history by teaching them about the Vikings. He's spent

$130,000 on a rare 16th century book of Viking saggers and has donated it to a public library

in the Norwegian town of Bruno where he grew up. It's believed to be the only surviving copy of

this book about medieval Viking kings, queens and warriors. And it's the most expensive book

purchase of all time in the country. The Tower Mayor Andreas Volfsund is delighted.

Yes, we are extremely happy and so thankful. We are proud, proud citizens in Bruno.

Erlinger is proud to where he come from, he's proud of Bruno. Then he gave us a big,

big huge gift to Bruno and that's, we are so grateful and thankful for that.

Professor Tourgrib title star is an Norwegian historian specialising in north saggers and

the Viking age. He told us why this book is so special. This book is totally unique because

it's the first book that ever drew from the north saggers, including what we later on called

the Vikings. In the period before the book was printed, the saggers were about to be forgotten

because Norway was occupied by Denmark. And you know what happened with the country when it

is occupied by a foreign state, it always hits the culture. This single book opens up and puts the

light on the groundwork of what is now a global Viking culture or interest. Erling,

a whole on here in a way, writes world cultural history by his deed. I think there is no comparable

person within sports that ever gave such a gift to the interest of his people and the literature.

He will open by doing this, I think, a door to an increased interest in the saga universe.

Professor Tourgrib title star.

And that's all from us for now. If you want to get in touch, you can email us at globalpodcast

at bbc.co.uk. This edition of the global news podcast was mixed by Derek Clark. The editor is

Karen Martin. I'm Janet Gillil. Until next time, goodbye.

Hi, this is Alex Cantrowitz. I'm the host of Big Technology podcast, a long time reporter and an

on air contributor to CNBC. And if you're like me, you're trying to figure out how artificial

intelligence is changing the business world and our lives. So each week on Big Technology,

I bring on key actors from companies building AI tech and outsiders trying to influence it.

Asking where this is all going. They come from places like Nvidia, Microsoft, Amazon and plenty more.

So if you want to be smart with your wallet, your career choices,

and meetings with your colleagues and at dinner parties, listen to Big Technology podcast

wherever you get your podcasts.