Truck Guns for the Modern Survivalist with Mike Milito – Epi-3822

There's a better way to do this, let me show you a better way.

And we are alive.

Welcome folks to episode 3,822 of the survival podcast and if you're thinking but yesterday

was 23 and this one's 22 and the one before that was 21 and 21, 23, then you're paying

attention way more than most people ever will.

That's because we are doing a Wednesday interview on a Thursday and I'm going to make

it work long term.

It'll go out on top of the stack today and then next week I'm going to flip it around.

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in because I can do that because of the power of the internet.

I could move time.

Now, anyway, if you've never tuned into an episode of this show before we are a podcast

that's been running for almost 18 years.

This is episode again, 3,822 and we're going to have a great episode today.

Mike Molito, host of the Gunfighter podcast is going to be on today and we're going to

talk about a really great subject and one I have not talked about in probably eight years.

Probably should talk about because as a subject everybody loves truck guns, what guns,

why, what about somebody stealing your gun?

Do you leave it in there all the time?

How do you secure it?

Which gun makes the most sense for this application based on your life, not my life, etc.

We're going to talk about all of that and more with Mike in just a minute.

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With that, I want to say welcome to our special guest, Mike Molito, man, Mike, you're on the

show a lot from expert counsel, but welcome to the show for a proper interview and a discussion.

Yeah, glad to be here, guys.

So I am glad to have you on.

You are an expert counsel member.

So regular listeners will be pretty familiar with who you are and what your philosophy is.

But let's get back to your space and out in high school or some shit.

Try and figure out what you're going to do with your life and you probably won't think

it.

I'm going to grow up.

I'm going to be a gun enthusiast and have a podcast and do private contractor and

security work.

I don't know.

Trying to figure out how to ask some check next to you, how to, you know, go out or something, right?

So how did you end up this path that led you to where you are?

Well, actually, I've always had a lifelong passion for guns.

Ever since I can remember, I grew up kind of like you.

Except you grew up, you know, rural Pennsylvania.

I grew up rural poor in the South and my idea of a good time was like, the family was like,

here's the rifle, go get dinner.

Okay.

So that was, I love guns from an early age.

I was always into them.

I joined the Marine Corps at 17, pre 9-11, pre the towers coming down and then the

towers came down and I was in, you know, waiting for the evasion of Iraq, did a couple of

tours.

I figured out, that was probably enough, went to work for LAPD, worked their regular assignments,

more specialized assignments.

I'm not going to say anything bad about law enforcement, but I, it was not something

that I felt that I wanted to do for the rest of my life, but at that way, I did some

other stuff in the army, both full time and part time national guard.

And I came into a private contracting world, and I've been doing that ever since and that's

kind of the, if you have the background and experience, it's kind of the best of both

because you get to do the gun stuff and you get a lot more freedom and, and once you

get some seniority, you kind of get a ticket choose where you want to be.

So I've done my stuff overseas.

I'm co-owness now in the red out in my favorite place in America.

So I get to, you know, I, I can hunt out right behind the house here.

I've got two million acres of open land, and, and I get to do a decent living and do

the podcast.

So I've been doing private 30 contracting for different, different stuff, which I'm not

going to get too specific on that, but different agents need different things, different

clearances, but everything from training to managing to just being a, just being a higher

gun here and there.

So it's a good, it's a good gig, and then the podcast, I obviously grown up, I had no idea

what a podcast was.

Actually, I think you were a big influence on me because you were one of my first early

favorite podcasts going back to the Jedadays.

I can't remember where you started listening, but it wasn't long after you started, and then

I started listening to podcasts.

There's a lot of gun content, and there's a lot of, like, gun entertainment content,

which is great.

Another one with that.

But I saw a lack of people with a broad spectrum of, you know, hunting, tactical, it's

usually one of the other, or real world first-hand experience, just guys that like to shoot

guns at watermelons.

And that's great.

That's great.

There wasn't a lot with, like, real world first-hand experience, which is why I started

the podcast.

And I really liked it.

Well, cool, man.

And one of the reasons I picked you for expert counsel when I had that thought open was,

because you come from kind of the rural dinner home background, you can answer your question

one week that's about, you know, which lever actions, the best deer carbine, or something

like that for some guys' needs.

And in the next week, some modification to, you know, an AR, because I found that most

gun people are one or the other.

That's very cool.

They're all in, you know, the Timmy Triggers, you know, this and that, and then you ask them

about something like an older semi-auto hunting rifle, like a 750 Remington or something.

They have no freaking idea.

They're all in on that side of things, and they don't really understand the tactical side

of things.

Yeah, there's a big bifurcation there in the gun world for sure, where most people fall

into a camp of one or the other.

Yeah.

And it is rare to find somebody that's passionate about both.

That this battle, like, can talk about AR Triggers and can also talk about, you know, Metal

Remington 760 or whatever it is, and do all that stuff, so, yeah, it is kind of rare

which kind of sad.

I think people get into, like, it's kind of, they fall into this dichotomy of, like,

Democrat versus Republican, like, you're a, you're a fun or you're a tactical, like,

all you care about is ARs and Glock 19s or whatever, but, but, yeah, I do see that a lot

in the gun world.

I wish it wasn't so, because we're kind of a minority anyway.

We probably should stick together, but, yeah, you see that for sure.

It's kind of sad, but it is, it is the way of the world.

But the reason I even dug into that is we're about to go into the subject on truck

guns and how that question gets answered has a lot to do with what we just talked about.

Yeah.

We're talking about a guy that's in an urban situation and he's worried primarily about

having an additional defensive capability or some dude that's running around every day

on a 10,000 acre ranch to the owns.

If there's anybody on there that he doesn't want there, they're trespassing.

He's mostly dealing with cattle and coyotes.

Coyotes, yeah.

Right.

People are going to have, they might even use the same thing, but they're going to have

totally different motivations behind what they decide to do.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, can you maybe talk about kind of the history of truck guns?

That's some I've never heard anybody even talk about before and you have that term in

your notes.

Yeah.

And kind of common truck guns of the past.

I mean, I remember, I'm going to be honest, there's a lot of people out there over selling

the idea of what it was like to grow up in the 80s.

We had a gun rack and every truck and all the trucks in the high school parking lot had

shotguns.

No, they didn't.

Stop saying that people.

No, they didn't.

You might have had it in the case of the trunk or behind the seat and you might have

went hunting like I did with your shop teacher after school for dogs, but no, you didn't

do that.

But because you didn't just see people all the time with vehicles, especially in small

towns where nobody locks them, with a rifle and a shotgun and a gun rack.

But I do remember seeing them frequently, especially during hunting season or when people

were off-roading and stuff like that, and you just don't see that at all anymore.

Yeah.

You know, Columbine really killed that.

And I grew up just before that.

I remember that happening, but like I grew up in a rural school in the south and we had

a shooting team.

I was on the rifle team.

Most schools in the area had shooting teams, but like wasn't even a thing like, yeah,

you walked down the hall with a rifle like nobody cared.

Not granted.

You were like supervising stuff.

Yeah, yeah.

But it just wasn't a thing and then after Columbine, most of that stuff went away.

But yeah, it was kind of an unwritten thing like nobody, nobody, you weren't stupid enough

to sit there in class and talk about how you had your gun and your truck, but you just

knew like you and your buddies were going, couldn't hunt in after school, and you had your

gun and your truck.

And it was just the way that it was.

And nobody cared.

And nobody thought that the thought of doing something nefarious to another student, that's

just not what you did.

You just, you know, you just threw hands if you got mad at somebody.

Yeah.

And that's just what you did.

And you would be a coward if you did otherwise.

Yeah.

I don't know when that culture changed.

I think Columbine had a lot to do with it because blaming only guns instead of the SSRIs

or the whatever else was in there, but there was a big shift.

But yeah, aside from school, a lot of adults, especially rural communities, there were guns

in trucks.

Like it was a common thing.

And like people would just pull up to the thing, like the dab would grab a six pack of

beer, leave his truck running with a shotgun in the back and nobody thought anything

of it.

And nobody would think that you would grab that and use it for anything of areas.

It just wasn't, because in a rural community, you know, most people know most people.

So somebody steals something, somebody's going to know.

And maybe, maybe part of that is the urbanization of America.

And that has gone by the wayside because most of us don't live in communities where we

know everybody.

But, you know, getting back to the history, you can go, you can go pre trucks.

You can go, you know, the, you know, the stage coach guns, you know, the Wells Fargo,

double barrel shotgun.

It's called riding shotgun for a reason.

So it predates that even.

So I would say that's kind of the history of the truck gun is the coach gun.

And then when you and I were, you're a little bit older than I am, but growing up, I'm

42.

You know, it was a common lever action and lever action and or and or shotgun or 22, you

know, combination thereof.

Those were the common truck guns.

I mean, it was probably a prompt for semi-auto shotgun, like a Remington 1100 or 870.

And like a 336 Marlin or a 336C and like 35 Remington or 3030.

That was the most common pairing you would see in the back of a truck and it was very

common.

Yeah.

And when I was coming up, SKS's were big, especially among people in my age because they

were dirt cheap.

And I mean, that was like the redneck hunting rifle, the juror, not because they were great

at hunting.

They're decent rifle, but because they were 75 bucks and like, they were poor.

So that's like, if you are redneck poacher, that's what you were doing because you go

to whatever big box store and get them in causally for 70 some bucks and case of ammo.

Yeah, it was ony as a ride grew up.

It was very hard for anybody to even sell you a semi-auto rifle.

And it wasn't because anybody had any prejudice.

It was because we were poor, replaced for people hunted to eat.

And it was illegal to hunt with a semi-auto center fire for deer.

So I remember being a kid going down a place called Lanko and this is just hurt when you

hear this.

30 M1 carbings, so basically pistol caliber carbings, like Korean war era, all the shit

oil or everything, still wrapped in paper, 75 bucks, and asking my dad about, hey, should

I buy one?

I can buy two of them.

I mean, even, you know, that's a lot more money.

I mean, even in the 80s, he said, oh, they're not useful for shit.

Yeah.

And they're not big enough to kill a deer anyway.

They're so fun, though.

You can kill a deer with a rod.

Yeah.

They're so fun.

Yeah.

I'm just saying, we didn't as a collective group in that demographic think that way, like

shooting, like fun was a 22, because you could go buy a brick of shells for eight bucks.

A brick, five hundred rounds for eight dollars, right?

So that's what you did for fun shooting or you handled loaded shotgun shells and shot

skeet or something, like, yeah, everything else.

It was a tool.

And I don't even think, like, you know, you're talking about how nobody worried about

them being yanked out of a trucker, though, I think that's because it was kind of like

a default.

Yes, if somebody were to try to hurt me or my family, that's a defensive tool, but it

was a tool to acquire food before it was anything else in our minds.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And something, only something like five percent of Americans, if the poll was correct,

that I looked, you know, how polls are, but something like me, which just sounds me,

because I hang out with people that are like me.

So I just assume everybody hunts for food.

Like, I got Elks do going on, I got Elks do in the kitchen right now.

I just assume that's what you do and like, go to the store for the food you can't.

Like, I can't, I can't grow coffee, but that's, you know, something like five percent

of Americans hunt.

So that's kind of the minority.

I think even when we grew up, it was still a minority.

It's just where we were.

It wasn't the minority.

But, you know, people growing up in Detroit or New York, they probably weren't hunting

for food.

I agree.

It was probably a minority back then, where I lived, it wasn't at close school on the

first day of rifle season for deer.

Yeah.

I don't think they did that right.

If you didn't close it, half the school would be empty.

I think that was just the unwritten rule that like boys didn't get written up for being

absent that day because nobody is going to be there.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, even the kids that didn't hunt, like, I'm not, you're getting, you're going

to hunter safety, you're getting a license.

And then you're going to have a tag.

And then if you don't want to hunt, you just sleep in the truck and want Uncle Mark or

your dad or your granddad or whatever shoots the deer, we'll just come get you.

We'll just tag on the deer.

That's your deer because we got one tag for hunter back then, right?

So the little girls too, man, you hit 12, you go past, and you put up a sleep in the

bag of the truck and it's a little, yeah.

But it was like, I mean, I don't think people will understand how about we hunted for

food.

I know you come from the same mindset.

I'm serious about, like, yeah, that was for the meat budget for the year.

How many deer went in the deep freezer?

Yeah.

That's a real thing.

And yeah, it is kind of sad.

I wish, obviously, I wish we could get back to that, although I've tried to get a lot

of people into hunting.

Yeah.

And it is hard.

Like, if somebody didn't grow up hunting and as an adult, they just want to figure it

out and they don't know anybody that hunts, like they grew up as a yuppie in the suburbs,

which, hey, you grew up where you grow up.

Or if they want to get into it, it's very difficult.

Like, I've gotten my wife into it and she loves it now if she'll even go on her own.

But that's a, that's a hard barrier to entry if you don't know anybody that is into hunting.

So it's that.

It's time.

I think time is a huge part of it, like, especially if you don't live where you, like

you mentioned, you got acre, you know, million acres behind you in, uh, of an Idaho.

And where I grew up, like, I literally could come home from school.

This is before I had a car, yeah, I could come home to school, grab the gun out of the

cabinet and just stay legal in case you got checked and crossroads and all you have to

be unloaded.

But I could walk about, uh, 10 minutes and then load up and be completely legal hunting,

right?

And so that means that when you get off work, if you have a couple hours of daylight left,

you can go hunt.

Yeah.

But if you don't have that kind of access, which I don't now, then you know, it's a,

it's a commitment to go out on like, you're like, you're not going to go for one day.

You're not going to go half a day.

You're going to have to find a place, probably pay somebody.

And so you're going to be doing at least a long weekends and people only have so many of

those any year.

And I think that hurts us.

Yeah.

On the bright side though, I mean, like when you and I run up getting a deer tag was a big

deal.

Yeah.

I don't like that.

There's too many people, but there are so many deer as well because whatever the environmentalist

or people want to say, the humans there have made a lot of good habitat for deer.

There's deer everywhere.

So on the upside, you actually probably could now give most of your meat from deer.

There are some places like where I grew up where it's like two deer a day, all deer season.

Yeah.

If you have a place to hunt, you're motivated.

There's going to be, you can shoot more deer than you can eat, which is fantastic.

Here in Texas, I get five on my license.

But one of the places I hunt because they're managing for trophy whitetails, I can go down

there and shoot a couple three doe.

And I do it on their conservation tags and it doesn't even take a tag off my license.

That's, that is a big, that's kind of nice.

Here in Idaho, one of the, one of the sad things here is that I get an LK, well, I mean,

not sad.

Most people can't hunt out, but I get an LK and a deer tag and that's it.

And I got to apply, I ain't bearing stuff, but I got to reply for everything also.

But even so, if my wife and I both get an LK and a deer, that's enough meat for, I mean,

a good LK, say 100 pounds.

I mean, that's, yeah, we both get one for both tag out.

That's a lot of meat, so.

If you both tag out on a cow, that's, yeah, yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't,

I go back to my uncle and my granddad saying, you can't eat the horns.

Yeah.

I don't like them, but they, they, they, they don't taste good.

You can put all the white one on them and they're, yeah, I've hunted and I've been a professional

guide and I have zero antlers or horns from anything I've ever hunted, just, that's just

not, I, not there's anything wrong with that.

I don't want to spare you that, but my wife and I also lived as nomads for quite a long

time.

Oh, yeah.

We shouldn't have space and we wanted to live as nomads and I don't really care.

Like I got pictures, I got memories, I, the meat is the trophy of me, so.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So coming back to the core with all this in mind, why should somebody consider a truck

done today?

Right?

It's like, what's in it for you with that?

Because it has to, in most places anyway, it has to be done radically different than all

the riff and you and I are doing on our use.

Yeah.

That's fair.

We got way off topic.

Well, I would say, you know, today is a vastly different world than when we grew up in.

I mean, I, obviously, this is the only time and place I've ever grown up in, but it seems

like America has changed rapidly in the past several decades.

It's a much more dangerous place as far as like active shooters, active violence, school

shootings.

There are some things are down like violent crimes down since the 70s, like just general

homicide, but a lot of other things are up.

And the average, for the average person does live in urban suburban environment and, you

know, I can say from being a police officer, police officer response times are not great.

I mean, there is good as they want days, good as they can be, but just real quick, I won't

get off on too big a tangent, but if you've never been a cop, I don't think people realize

how the police system works like you call the police, even if the police is the next block

over, he doesn't know that you call the police.

He goes to a dispatcher.

The dispatcher has to find an available unit, recall the dispatcher.

He has to respond.

Then he has to go.

So all that, you mean, you're talking 15 minutes, 45 minutes, unless they actually see it,

which is rare.

Yeah.

I mean, the fight's happened in seconds, like seconds.

So you know, it is the cops don't want to protect you.

They're not gunna because it's not, it's not how the flow works.

Like, yeah, shut it.

If you, if you see something going on, you're going to intervene, but if you get that

call by the time you get there, the biggest thing you're doing for you generally is filling

out a report.

Yeah.

They're, and I say that all the time, as much as like I was a cop, I'm not going to

spare a cop.

But cops are administrators.

They're not gunfighters.

They're not gunmen.

They have a gun as a contingency.

Most of them, a lot of them aren't even gun people, they're even like guns.

And I'm not surprised people, but that's just the way that it is.

Some are, some aren't.

They're just people like us, but they're administrators, they're clerks.

When somebody says they want to be a cop, one of the first things I ask is, how do you,

how do you like writing essays?

Because that's the bulk of your job is writing.

So.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The last group of folks I went to at the range, you were four cops there.

One retired to the three active duty.

I was a better shot than all but one of them.

Not, I mean, not by a little like a broad, and the one guy was really, really good.

Like, you know, the department, he has a tag team, they don't have a true SWAT team and

he's part of that and all.

He's a gun guy and he practices way more than I do and he was damn good.

The others were not great to be honest.

Yeah, they get the bare minimum, you know, glock that will barely do what they needed

to do and they that they don't have to repair a lot and they carry it and they do the

basic call and most cops, they don't shoot outside the call.

They call it what twice a year and that's it.

And you know as much as I do, handgunning is a perishable skill, especially handgun.

Like if you don't, if you don't use it, you lose it and it, you know, how, how much could

I bench press?

If I only bench press twice a year, the answer is not very much.

Yeah.

Fat too.

I can be, I can not pick up a shot gun or a rifle from two months and I can pick it and

I can go right back to where I was, a handgun.

Yeah.

No.

There's so much, there's so much more that you can do wrong.

Yeah.

And so very unforgiveness.

It's so very unforgiveness.

I guess fail safe against it like there's a certain, once your form's right with a long

gun, it's very hard to not stay in that form.

And if you've done it your whole life like it's a bicycle, you get on it, you can still

do it.

But handgun has, well, you know, there's, there's a lot of dexterity right there that

works against you if it's not controlled.

Yeah.

It's, it's very unforgiving.

We've got way else topic again.

Yeah.

I was saying, well, so why does somebody want truck guns?

Well, because they might need them, the simple answer is they might need them for a variety

of reasons.

Going back to most people won't hunt on the way to them from work, but sometimes you

might, sometimes you might, you know, just come, you might get off work early depending

on your job or whatever and you might have a place to hunt on the way home and if you

have a truck on, that's all the better.

The other one is the tactical reason.

Like you're your own first responder.

So, you know, the cops let's assume that they're really good and they're really well-trained

and they really want to help you.

Well, you know, if they come 15 minutes after the fight, they're, they're maybe put a

turn to get on if you're still alive, but they're not, they're not helping in the situation.

We saw both those attacks by the Muslims a week or two ago.

Both those were stopped by citizens with, with guns.

I mean, both of them before anybody got killed.

So that, that's it right there.

And then I think you know as well as I do, the first mass shooter in America, I believe,

was the Bell Tower shooter in Texas because you're in that state and that was stopped by

a private citizen with a rifle and it's truck or I forget, but that, like, there you go.

That's a real world example of the first mass shooter were stopped with a cop and a citizen

with a truck gun.

So there you go.

I mean, I kind of look at it to like, there's your low risk, low probability, but high impact

events.

And you just don't know if you're going to be there.

I mean, we had a pretty nasty shooting about a year ago in a mall parking lot and a cop

happened to be there and probably save a ton of lives.

We had about four people killed in that and like another half does an injured, but the

guy was shooting a rifle and I think to me, one of the things is, I'm the person that

if I can intervene, I'm going to, if I can try to help somebody else, I'm going to.

I don't want to be sitting there with my SIG, you know, two, three, nine.

If the other person has a frickin' carbine, you know, I'll do it if that's all I got.

But if there's any way that I can, you know, up my advantage in a situation where losing

means dying, because you see like the cop shows and shit all the time and there's like four

dudes with frickin' full, they all have fully automatics, by the way.

I don't know where the fuck these people get them, but everybody's got a machine gun.

Everybody's shooting from the hip and the guy's got his clock and he's like taking him

out one at a time while they're all shooting at him and pinning him down.

And I'm like, that's unrealistic.

But if those guys actually, they always talk about them too, like they're ex-special forces.

You'd be so fucking dead, so funny, fast.

You'd have no prayer when you're outgunned like four on one first of all, but then they've

got rifles and you've got a handgun.

And I'm not saying that's going to happen, but some of the crazy shit going on in the

world, like there's a lot of soft targets out there.

Yeah.

I mean, if I was a terrorist, I don't even want, I've talked about how like I've had

this idea to do a show, like all the things I would do if I was a terrorist.

And I'm always like, yeah, I'm not putting that shit out in the universe.

Yeah, then in places in the world where this has gone down, where all of a sudden there's

20 guys running around with guns, to shoot whoever the hell they can shoot, because they

don't, and that's something I think people don't really understand on this threat matrix

on this stuff.

Those people are not trying to kill you, they're just trying to kill people.

Anybody, right?

So think about it like if you're, if you're hunting and your goal is to bring meat home

and there's a herd of deer, you just pick one that's big enough and don't have another

one behind it and bang, it's easy.

If you had like one animal and you're trying to single that one out and get a shot at that

one, now you've got to think about it.

If it's in the middle of the group, if it's on the back edge, you worry about spooking

the other ones.

And so I know it's not a direct analogy, but it kind of is.

And then the other side of it is that you give me a semi-auto and put a feeder out there,

put a bunch of pigs around it.

And I'll have a bite of them dead before they get to the tree line.

And that's how those people are approaching it.

They're not worried about, I want to get this person, they just want to cause death and

mayhem.

And that is a scenario that, are you or I likely to ever be in it?

No.

If somebody that's going to hear this, if you put us all together, the likelihood of

way up and it could be you or me or somebody else in this, just this audience.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, for sure.

I don't remember the stats, so I'm not going to throw out numbers because they might be wrong.

But there is a study you can look up where active shooters that are stopped by police and

then active shooters that are stopped by private citizens.

And when they're stopped by a private citizen, the death count is substantially lower because

they're there.

So you're not going to, if you know, bam, every second, bam, every second, somebody

is getting shot, that's a lot of seconds for the cops to show up.

That's just simply, it's sadly, simple math.

So when they're stopped by private citizens that are already there, it's a lot less time.

And that is a big deal, because I said, it's a real thing, and why not have a gun in

your truck?

Yeah.

I mean, why not?

Well, let's go through some different guns and roles.

What is the advantage if the long gun that we keep in the truck is a shotgun?

Yeah.

I love the shotgun, Jack.

I'm a big fan.

I grew up, like I said, the SKS was like common in my day, but I grew up hunting with

single shot shotguns and then maybe something else.

The shotgun is unrivaled for its versatility.

I don't think it gets to love that it deserves in a shooting community, because it's not

tactical.

There's not people posting stuff.

I don't have Instagram, but Instagramming, they're just simple utilitarian tools.

I don't think I can grab shotgun.

I don't think I can touch guns real live, but they're just simple utilitarian tools.

You can take anything from, you know, a morning dove to a, to bare defense for their

great.

And I tell the story all the time on my show, but I was, I was a cop.

I was, I worked some specialized assignments.

I had access to full auto, you know, submachine guns and, you know, full auto M4s.

And most of the time, if I was kicking down a door and I thought somebody was going to

try to kill me on the other side, I would take a Remington 870 with buckshot and slugs.

Because I didn't care what look cool Instagram was in a thing, but I didn't care what look

cool on social media.

I cared what was going to keep me alive and keep me breathing at the end of the day.

And most of the time, that was an 870 with buckshot and slugs or, you know, Benelli Super

90.

But because they're so good for, like, for most urban environments or most close, let's

say inside 120 yards with a slug, they're just phenomenal and they're very versatile.

So if you want, like, if somebody told me they're only going to have one gun and, and they

also want to put it in the truck, I'm going to say get a shotgun because they're, they

are unmatched in their versatility.

Like, and you can almost can't go wrong with a good pump gun or, but I would say with

a pump, but a good pump or semi auto for that.

Yeah.

And then when you get a shortment of shells, again, you could take anything from, from

a dove to a turkey to a deer to a, to, you know, defensive use.

So, I mean, so I am all about thinking about the tactical aspect here, but, you know,

you mentioned, like, you might work somewhere where you can hunt on the way home.

You also might be somewhere where somebody says, hey, I got property right there.

You want to, like you said, the shotgun, it's a function of ammo.

And I mean, you go as far as, like, you throw a frickin' rifle, sided barrel in behind,

I mean, you could swap a barrel off a frickin' pump shotgun and less time than it takes

me to get this out of my mouth, right?

I mean, it's almost instantaneous.

So, you have that versatility both as a tactical weapon, a defensive weapon, or, you know,

something you can, like you said, shoot dogs with.

I think it's probably the best overall way to go if you're going to have one, because

it gives you that, that ability to kind of equalize the fight if you're there, but then

you have all that other versatility of what it can do.

And then the reality of, like, there are those potential things, like you mentioned the

bell, the tower shooter, and I think the guy that, don't point him, he was like shooting

like a bolt action of six or something.

And that's always a possibility, but the probability is, you don't need to be making

no 300 yard shots.

Yeah.

Yeah, especially in most urban environments.

I think I've read an FBI statistics, the average distance of a gunfight in America is something

like seven feet.

Yeah.

And people get all crazy about this long-range shooting and dialing and fidget spinners

for men.

I think mostly because they can spend a bunch of money.

But the average, I was a commander of a tactical team to stop active shooters, and the research

that I did, I think, the average, like, sniper or a long-forcements shot or a designated

marksman shot is like 75 yards.

Yeah, that would be about right.

It makes sense.

And just think about the terrain you're in, and how many places can you see where you're

here?

When I was doing that gig, and I was setting myself up or other men up to be the designated

marksman for a mission, if you can't get your guys within 200 yards or within 75 yards

most of the time, but even in a big arena, I mean, in an urban environment, it's hard

to see 200 yards.

Yeah.

So I think the distance is way overestimated.

And I'm not saying there's not a place.

We'll talk about rifles and pistols and stuff, but the shot gun, just, it's so versatile.

So if you're only going to have one, it's definitely a big step up from in firepower and

versatility to the handgun.

I love handgun.

It gets lined up in my bread and butter.

Yeah.

And I do more competition handgun shooting than anything else.

I love it because it's so unforgiving.

But the bottom line is nobody sends their frontline troops in the world.

They're frontline infantry and with handguns.

They might send them in as a hang on as a backup, but they send them in with long guns because

long guns are more effective.

And the shot gun is a very effective tool that's inside 120 yards, 150 yards, they've got

the right slugs.

Well, let's say also like, let's pull it out.

Let's pull out of the prepper porn Patriots coming collapse world where we have these visions

of red dawn or whatever and get into reality here.

How defensive are you being as a civilian if you shot somebody at 300 yards?

Yeah, I think that's a lot more, yeah, that's a lot more foreign fantasy than actual

real world.

I mean, even look at, even look at the Trump assassination attempt, it wasn't a lot

of far shot.

I mean, no, though everybody made it out like he had to be a super sniper or something.

Yeah, I see.

So I'm sure you heard, right?

You could teach a 12-year-old girl in an afternoon had to make that shot all day long.

Because it went from, it was about 200 yards to when they actually measured it, that's

Charlie Kirk shooting, it was 137 yards.

Yeah, that's a chip shot for an average rifleman with an average rifle.

Yeah, iron sights, three beers in me shooting one hand and I can make that shot, you know.

The average, yeah, there's cooking the army like shoot 30s out of 300 yards with iron

sights.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's nobody more.

They gave a lot of things now, right?

Well, it used to be.

It used to be.

Yeah, it used to be.

Yeah, we shot 300 meters and I think you would have had to have been able to consistently

hit at least a few targets, about 200 to qualify.

I'm trying to remember the numbers, like I know the 300 meter target, it was only like

three pop-ups in 40 rounds.

You could miss all of them and you'd still qualify.

But then there was a good amount at 250 and a good amount at 200.

I don't remember exactly how many hits you had to have at least make the base qualification.

I would think that you're having to hit some over 100 meters or you wouldn't qualify

and that's fine.

Yeah, iron sights.

Yeah.

You know, I don't remember but yeah, even what the Marines make you qualify at 550, 500,

500 yards of iron sights, when I was in iron sights, no support, no rest, I mean, it's

and I mean, that's, the point is it was an easy shot and the point is that most shots

in the real world are way closer than most people think, even most hunting shots.

And unless they laser range find it, I'm like, how far was that?

And they usually people way over estimate of what is like 200 yards is two football fields

stacked on top of each other.

That's a long way.

That's a long way.

Even out west here, people like have these fantasies of like, I'm going to shoot an elk

at a thousand yards, but one, I don't think that's ethical, which probably make a bunch

people mad.

But two, you're probably not, you probably, like I took my elk to sheer 120 yards, I've

all the years I've been hunting out west, which is a lot and guiding.

I think I've taken one animal over 300 yards.

I probably could have gotten closer, but I just have to anyway, I mean, the longest thing

I've ever shot living with a rifle was a little over 400, but it was a ground hog.

Oh, yeah.

I've not.

I mean, like you're trying to get long shots on a ground hog, you want, like that's the

whole point.

That's what makes it fun.

Dear, I've shot a lot of deer in a hundred and 150 yard range, but that's Texas.

Everybody has feeders everywhere and that's kind of like the set up distance and whatever.

But in Pennsylvania, I don't ever think I shot a deer over about 50 yards.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, growing up, I'm with a shotgun.

So I mean, I'd say some usually buck shot, too, usually number four buck, I put a lot

of different.

Yeah.

There is a few that went home with foster slug holes in them that maybe weren't even

the right time of year.

I'll just leave it at that.

Let's get back to truck guns.

What do you consider a good set up for a vehicle shotgun, like how would you, you know,

how would you set up the truck itself around the fact that you're going to have a shotgun

in it?

So for a good versatile shotgun, that's different than I'd be like, if you want the most,

obviously, if you want the most specialized door kick and shotgun, it's going to be like

a vanilla M4.

I'll tack down.

And if you want the best, you know, quail hunting shotgun, it's going to be like 20

day, eight, 70 event rib like that one, which is simple.

But if you want something in the middle, I would say my, in my experience, the best compromise

is I like a shotgun with sights, like instead of a rib, I like a shotgun with sights.

I like an aim it because you're probably not doing a lot of wing shooting if it's a truck

gun.

So you don't need the, you don't need the attributes of a wing shotgun.

If you are going to have a rib, I'd say have one with multiple beads on it so you can

get some kind of precision, but decent iron sights, a pump or a semi auto because you might

want some kind of decent rate of fire.

And, you know, a sling, just, I think any go to gun should have a sling, probably a white

light because a lot of bad stuff happens at night and they're easy and cheap now.

So a white light, a sling, decent sights and a variety of shells, like have your little

go to, you know, ammo can or tote with whatever you want to keep loaded in it or in condition

three, you know, not one in the chamber, but in the two buckshot or and or slugs.

And then a variety of different shot, depending on whatever situation you might find yourself

in number six shot, you know, whatever.

Yeah.

What do you think about these people who say shit like throw bird shot in is your first

round.

I'm only going to give you the, I'm not even going to say why they say that because I

know you're going to know, but there's the ball teed up.

Yeah.

So I'm not going to get, I'm not the guy that says around and tells cop stories or war stories.

That's not me.

I just, I don't want to be that guy, but I have seen the real world results of people being

shot at very close range with bird shot and it's not impressive.

Like people always assume that people are going to act like they do and people are going

to be rational like they are and that people don't want to die.

Like they don't want to die, but you cannot count on that.

Like you have to assume that that person is going to try to kill you until you physically

stop them.

If you pull the gun out and they stop great, if you shoot them somewhere that's not critical

and they stop fantastic, right?

But I don't make that assumption.

If, if somebody is on so many drugs, they don't know that they're on earth anymore.

And they're, they're bent on killing you and they don't feel pain.

Bird shot is not what I want.

I've seen people shot with bird shot.

It's not impressive.

It can be nasty wound wise, but I don't want it, but yeah.

I mean, if somebody says they're going to shoot me or bird shot, I would probably be

done, but you can't assume that people even know what's going on.

And if they're going to do whatever they're going to do, you have to stop them from

behaving badly.

And I don't, I don't count on bird shot for that.

I've shot birds that I thought should die with bird shot close distances in a fly away.

So I definitely don't count it for people.

And again, I've seen people shot with it and it's not impressive.

And I, it's for birds.

It's in the name of the birds.

I've hit squirrels with a high brass number sixes, say 25, 30 yards away.

And that animal comes down and you have to stuff to kill it.

And you think, well, I must not have got that many pellets in it.

And you take it and you skin it and you hit it up like through the belly.

And that skin's thick.

So like that back skin actually will stop those and you skin it.

And there's just pellets falling off the back hide.

Yeah, and you're talking about what a one and a half pound animal, if it's a big one,

it's three quarter to one and a half pound animal that got maybe 20 pellets

that have penetrated its entire body.

Yeah, it ain't dead.

And you would think that you would think of 175 pound man.

Yeah, you would think that that would be enough just on the sheer energy alone.

But energy doesn't till I just a quick hunt and story growing up me and my buddy

were canoeing duck hunting.

I think in the swamps and we came across this deer that had been stuck in the like frozen mud.

Yeah.

And he couldn't get out and he could barely move and there were there were

there were like crows eating at his head and I felt so bad.

He was like literally just like a zombie just like barely alive and he's birded or eating him.

So it's like, I'm going to put him out of his misery and I was we were we were duck hunting.

So we wrote and duck duck, you know, ducks are pretty stout load.

I forget what it is, it's a potent load and we wrote up next and was close as I could get.

And I thought I'm just going to put it, you know, on on his head and pull the trigger

and that'll be dead deer.

Man, I shot that deer and it like took the half of his head off.

And he just turns around real slow and looks at me and I felt horrible.

Oh, God, yeah.

But that and I shot him again and he died.

I just like contact shot behind the jaw and that finally did it.

But I mean, you're talking a few feet with a full payload of duck.

Duck, probably like number four compliment.

Like there's probably a magnet high brass and that and that was feet away in the head.

And that deer was still alive.

He wasn't good to start off with.

No, I don't recommend bird shot unless you're hungry.

No, I tend to fall on the number four buck.

No, it's a fantastic, but it's a lot more pellets.

And all you got to do is put big marbles and little marbles in a jar to understand why.

Yeah, number four here is not exactly space conscious.

And that is, that is, I don't remember the exact number of pellets in the three inch number four,

but it's a lot more pellets.

Your standard, your standard two and three quarter has 27 pellets and your standard three

inch has 41 pellets of number four buck.

That's, that's a lot of a lot.

And if you compare that to double a buck, which is a go to, it's a great load.

But that's nine or 12 versus 27 or 41.

And you're still dealing with a 24 caliber pellet going with 1600 feet a second, 14 feet a second.

That's that I like number four buck.

I've taken my biggest bear to date with the number four buck.

And it's fantastic load.

Yeah, and we're talking kind of tactically now.

But the guy that turned me onto that is old outdoor life rider and African hunter Peter Capstick.

Oh, yeah.

Lepard, he was his leopard load, I think.

Yep.

And he made that case.

And I was like, you know, if you're willing to use that on a 120 pound animal with 20 razor knives

and giant teeth trying to kill you, it probably worked on human too.

Number number four buck, what it's important is getting the right projectile with enough

penetration in the right place.

And with 41 pellets, you're, if you just pattern your shotgun, you're generally going to hit

something important, liver, lungs, heart, something important.

You, depending on the distance with, you know, you get a lot less pellets.

And I don't think if you hit the heart or liver lungs, where let's just say, keep it with

deer. So it's not too gruesome.

Like you get the right pellet in there.

That thing's going to die.

Um, it just, you might have to track up, but it's going to die.

And you get a lot more chance of that with, with 27 pellets versus nine.

Yeah.

And it doesn't really matter.

They're going the same velocity.

So it doesn't matter to me if it's a 24 caliber or a 33 caliber.

It's kind of inconsequential.

So I think Hunter maybe have a better expectation of actually gunfighting than maybe

people that consider themselves gunfighters have never been a gunfight because if you're

a hunter and you've hunted your whole life, you've taken 150 grain, 30 cowl round out

of a no six, drilled at dead center, perfect shot through both lungs, blew the lungs out

of an animal and watched it run 150 yard fort fell over.

And you make the next same shot next time and it goes down like you said, off a stick

of dynamite inside it.

Yeah, you never can't sell.

You just don't know every individual, every shot, every minor deflection, every

slut. Like there is a probability that if you do this thing, you're anchoring, but

it's never a hundred percent.

Yeah.

I hit a deer one time with a seven magnum, 165 grain load.

I mean, everything plus what you'd need for a big bull elk.

Uh, about 150 yard shot, hit the shoulder blade though and hit it right where that kind

of the ridge is, right in the bottom.

And it turned that round straight 90 degrees up, broke the deer's back, dropped it like

a rock, but it barely bled.

I had to put it down with a sidearm.

Yeah, there's a lot of stuff.

I mean, like, you know, the logistics is, is kind of a science, but it's kind of,

there's so, there's so many variables that it's like trying to predict the lottery

numbers. Like it's just, yeah, you do the right thing and try and put the bullet in the

right place, but where things can happen, they always can in the world of the classics.

Um, is there a place for handguns as a truck gun?

I mean, we've been all on the shotguns now.

We'll talk about carbings in just a bit, but, um, most of us carry on our body, but

yeah, I try to carry something that carries really nice and comfortably.

I'd rather have an adequate tool that I'll have with me all the time.

The one that like cuts into my gut because it's a little bit bigger than I want to carry.

Yeah, but I think there's a place for having a hand, additional handgun in a vehicle too.

Yeah, I, I'm a big fan of carry a full size fighting handgun.

I talk about that a lot, um, but I know that most people aren't going to do that.

Most people are not going to carry a full size fighting handgun.

And if you actually go out and do some handgun shooting, um, you know, there's,

because, you know, there's a reason law enforcement agencies don't issue their guys

with your LCPs or little tiny guns because they're not as effective.

And they're a handgun is already a compromise.

It's already harder to shoot unless powerful.

It is again, if it weren't, then people would just issue their army's handguns and not rifles or shotguns.

Um, so they're already a compromise.

A small handgun is a compromise of a compromise.

You know, she just go out and shoot like your standard FBI ball.

Shoot it with a full size fighting handgun, like a bread of 92 and then shoot it with like a

Ruger LCP or a J Framer-volver.

You will, you will see a difference.

Now, I don't care how good you are, a bigger handgun, unless you're something we're going on with your grip or something,

a bigger handgun is going to be easier and more effective to shoot.

So I'm a big fan of carry a full size fighting handgun day to day on duty off duty, whatever.

Um, I try and carry one most of the time.

That's that I just went out for a run before the podcast and I carried a little J frame because I was,

I was out running and I was carried J frame in a, in a very light knife out running in the hills.

Um, so there are times when you can't carry a full size gun and I know most people don't.

So if you're going to have a handgun in the vehicle laptop bag or in your center console or whatever it is,

having a full size handgun or a revolver is a step up from what you carry.

If you carry a compact or micro nine or something like that, it's, and I think there is a place for that,

especially, let's say you, you know, you're carpooling, you got people in and out of the car.

It's not a world that I live in, but urban people like you can have something locked in your glove box or in your glove box.

If people are starting to see it's not going to bother anybody, your mother-in-law, that's, you know, purple hair,

liberal, not going to think about it.

So I think there is a place for, you know, a full size revolver or a full size, you know, fighting handgun in your,

in your vehicle somewhere.

And it's a lot easier to conceal if you are in a high theft area.

It's a lot easier to secure and or conceal than a long gun is going to be obviously.

So I think there's a, there, it's, if you're carrying like, let's say a Ruger LCP, I had to rag on that gun,

but it's kind of like the, the, the, what can I check a box and say I technically have a handgun?

Yeah.

So, um, yeah, definitely a big step up from that.

If you tell me I have to get in a fight with a handgun, I'm definitely going to take a full size fighting handgun or a revolver over a little,

like, let's say I'm going to take a Smith and Wesson 686 over a J-frame.

Like it's, so a bigger handgun is better.

So if you're not going to carry one on you, having one in the car is a big step up in flyer power.

Yeah, I'd also just go back to there's two is one and one is none.

I mean, there's, there's also other issues.

We can only go to meet down this hole, but there are other reasons that you might want that second weapon.

Yeah, maybe, maybe day to day, you carry a J-frame in your pocket by like today's not an everyday day.

And today I want the, today I want the XYZ.

I want the bread and 92 or the C226 with an extra mag.

Yeah, maybe, maybe for whatever reason, we don't have to go down rabbit holes.

But for whatever reason, today there's a heightened freddler.

I've done a front assessment and today I should carry something a little bit more like, you know,

Billie Jean at the office just broke up with her boyfriend and he's crazy and he might come in here.

So now I'm going to carry a bigger gun, like whatever, like active works of violence in the workplace are a real thing too.

That's what I talk about procedures versus protocols, right?

We have procedures how we do things protocols are the procedures that we assemble during a specific situation is threat height.

You know, things like that.

Am I driving down the road and my buddy, Mike Molito, sitting next to me, but for some reason,

he's not the gun fighter, Mike Molito, and he doesn't carry, but he knows how to handle himself.

And all of a sudden we're starting to see big ganging up on the sides of the streets and protests happen.

And we're just trying to get away, but you don't know if you're going to get, bro, here, right?

Like that, you know, you might have a passenger or somebody with you that in certain situations, you may wish to arm.

That's like another issue there.

And in those situations, I don't want those people seeing a rifle, right?

Because that can actually written house, right?

Like, then you actually attract people that you end up maybe having the shoot that you don't want to.

Yeah, right.

Like our goal here is not to shoot somebody.

It's to not get killed or watch other people get killed.

And then you might have to intervene, but you don't want to.

Like, I mean, that's, or something's wrong with you, I think.

If you want, yeah, you would never do them like, yeah.

So let's talk about rifles, carbines, things like that, you know,

the deer rifle versus the AK versus the, you know, AR would have you.

Well, I would say that again, we're not in normal times right now, whatever you want to think.

Like I, I, in my line of work, I'm pretty, like, you'd be surprised at the amount of that doesn't make the news.

But we're not in normal times, whatever you want to say, we're at war.

And we get a lot more civil conflict today.

So, and I'm not, there are things that I don't like about the AR, right?

But I've made my living a big chunk of my life, wielding ARs, M16s, AR 15s.

They are the fighting rifle of today, whether you like it or not.

They have their foibles, the area of synchroncy, they're, you know,

they have their weak points, but they are, they've had 70 years of development.

And they are a good, and they're so affordable right now.

Like, you can get a good AR for ridiculously affordable amounts of money that are just fine

as long as you test them and try them out.

But there's a lot of utility for, you know, an AR in a vehicle,

especially you brought up varmants earlier.

I mean, an AR, that round was kind of developed as a varmant round.

If you're, if you are, you know, you want to truck on in, you are going to coyotes,

groundhogs, prairie dogs where I'm at.

Like, they're phenomenal for that.

And they're also phenomenal fighting gun.

So that's a good crossover if you, like, live in an area where there's coyotes.

I mean, it's not the best pig round, but, you know, a good 223 with a good,

with a good bonded round is fine for pig, like, it's fine.

And it's obviously, it's the fighting rifle of our time.

And so if you are going to get into a fight where you want that precision,

then the AR is it.

And again, they're affordable.

They're, the mags are affordable.

The ammo is the most affordable center fire ammo that you can get.

So it's hard to argue against the AR,

unless you just want something different.

Like, if you, if somebody asks me like, I want to carry rifle in the, in the truck,

I'm going to say, unless, again, there's some caveats, AR is where you start.

Yeah.

And you can customize it however you want.

But, but, I mean, that's kind of my go to.

That's kind of my default.

As much as I like other platforms,

they're so affordable and so ubiquitous that,

that's kind of the one that I would recommend for most people.

Yeah, look, the Ruger at many 14s and many 30s had fantastic day.

They're great guns, but you're going to pay quite a bit for something

that doesn't have some of the versatility.

I prefer anything like the ranch rifles.

I, I love them.

They're very much like, they're like a skill bound.

They're grand, right?

I mean, that's what they were designed to really be.

Yeah.

But they're, they may not be right for everybody, I guess.

I like to many 14.

I, I, I've used them.

I've, I've used them in the real world like real missions.

They're, they're phenomenal.

They're, and especially for used to, a lot of people aren't,

which I think, why they got away from them, especially the new generations that, you know,

came up, they've maybe the only ever shot in AR or a Glock 19 with a pistol grip.

So they've never shot a traditional shot gun or rifle, but I love them in 14.

Even if you can have an AR, like if you live in a restricted state, especially though, the mini,

for, for the average citizen, yeah, the reloads are not as fast.

So you're not going to shoot it in three gun competition, but

I'm actually encounter, you know, just 10, 10, 15, 20 rounds is,

you're probably not worried about a reload.

They're phenomenal.

They are expensive though, a good mini now.

A new one is like 11, 1200 bucks.

And I think they are.

I think we're quite a bit more than like an entry-level AR, but

an entry-level AR, you can get for 500 bucks.

And there's a lot of good ones.

Yeah, there's a lot of good $600 that are, are they, are they as good as like a Daniels

Defensor, whatever.

That's all relative, I guess, but no, but for the average person,

especially something you're going to keep in your truck.

Yeah, if, I mean, if you're deploying to Syria, I'm going to tell you get the Daniels

Defensor, get the Coltless, you're doing private security contracting.

Yeah.

But if it's your truck gun, and you're going to shoot it a little bit,

I mean, a pulmonary state armory or one of the entry-level

ruggers, they're, they're very impressive.

I mean, they're, they're good for the money.

And I would rather have the guy with that gun that spends a 500 on that and has the ammo

and goes and takes a training class over a weekend.

And the guy that gets the Daniels Defensor and puts it in his car and has never

had any kind of formal training.

Yeah.

What do you think about the fun guns for this purpose, like your,

your lever actions and things like that?

Man, I, I've had several lever actions in the past.

I know people love them maybe because I didn't grow up with them.

It wasn't my thing.

I every time I'm a practical guy, look at guns.

I love them for their beauty and stuff, but I look them at them for tools.

And the thing that gets me is when I look at a pump gun, or I'm sorry,

I love reaction gun, I think why wouldn't I get a pump?

Like if I'm going to go that route, like if I'm going to Canada,

because I don't live far from Canada, if I'm going up into Canada,

I can have a gun for bare defense, like if I'm going with a manual gun,

like that, why wouldn't I go with a Remington 760?

The Remington 760 is pump action, so it's faster than a lever.

And it's more powerful.

It's 30 off six or 270 or whatever.

It's, it's, to me, unless I just do it for aesthetics,

I know lever actions are so hot right now and you got the tactical lever actions.

But for me, if I'm going manual rifle,

I'm going to go 760, I mean, they're hard to argue against,

or a, or a Browning BLR, like with a full power,

not a traditional lever action, so there definitely is a place,

if you want a like a pistol caliber of 357 lever gun,

and a state that's super restricted and you can't even have a semi-auto mini-14,

there's a place, it's not my place, but I wouldn't fault you if you wanted to have one.

I think that's why they get selected over things like a 760.

I grew up hunting deer with a 7600, which is the pretty version of it.

And I love that gun, but it's, it's not, you know, a 16-inch Marlin,

you know, or something like that, it's got that kind of handy truck feel.

It weighs more, it has less, and unless you put like a 10-round magazine in it, you know,

with the 760, it can carry more ammo and things like that.

And I think that's why people do it. I love them, I don't want one for a truck gun.

I don't want a lever in a tactical situation, you can go back to Teddy Roosevelt's rough riders,

they were carrying lever guns up San Juan Hill, and they figured out when they were getting seven

mousers rang down on them, from the new bolt guns, that when they worked that action,

they kind of had to lift their head up, and enough of them got shot to go, we don't like this.

Yeah, I'm a big fan of the bolt gun, obviously, for hunting and stuff like that.

It's obviously slower rate of fire than a lever. By a substantial margin, I did a whole test on

my podcast, so I think last year I bought like a 22 in each one bolt action lever action semi-auto.

As you might imagine, the semi-auto is way faster, the lever action is faster than a bolt. By a

significant, you know, I forget the percentage, but like 20% margin, so it's a little bit faster,

but it's also less precise. And for me, like, if I'm, if it's a fighting gun, I want a semi-auto,

and if it's not, I probably tend towards a bolt action, if I want something in between, like,

for tracking or still hunting or something like that, which I like, and it's going to be up close,

and closer in, I like the 760, it's a full powered rifle, so.

I mean, yeah, I'm not going to argue, I can't sit, I like it, you can't sit.

Some people, I think, and, you know, the lever actions have gotten hot in the last couple of years,

but, you know, several years ago, nobody wanted a lever action 45, 70, or very few people.

Now it's like the thing to have with a rail on it and a light, and you make it look all tactical,

but you still got 1870's technology. I mean, if you want that, that's fine, but

the army figured out that to your point, the lever actions were pretty much

off to less than 18, what, 1890? So, I mean, they went to the bolt action.

They were replaced with semi-autos, they were replaced with, like, the 3040 crack,

the three-street, the bolt action, the 1917 endfield, then, the US pattern endfields.

Right? They were all bolt guns.

Now, people think that, we're getting off on attention here, but people think that lever actions

are simple because they're, you know, they're simple to use, but if you've ever had the displeasure

of completely taking one down and trying to reassemble it, they're not simple inside.

They're very complicated machines.

A bolt action, like a bolt action pre-64 Winchester Model 70, that's about a simple or repeating

firearm you can get.

I mean, you can get ice and mud in the action and work that thing.

I mean, so again, it's just not my thing.

I get people love them and they're beautiful and nostalgic and they're job lane.

I love job lane, but it's just not.

I look at them as practical tools and I generally don't see them as practical.

If you want one because you like them, they're super fun.

Like the 11 action 3.57 is one of the most fun guns you can get.

They're great for that.

And if that's what you're going to have in shoot a lot, I'd rather have you have the gun in your truck

that you shoot a lot and train with, then the super tactical gun that you never shoot

because you don't like it.

So there's something to be said for that.

I think it's actually a hole in the market that there's not more pump options than rifles.

They're really good.

It's not the only reason that levers have the kind of resurgence that they do.

I think it's, it is nostalgic, but I also think it's like,

if I'm not going to do semi-auto or bolt, then then then I'm kind of down to lever,

right, or pump.

And I can rattle off a dozen manufacturers of lever rifles.

And like you brought up the 760, I'm having a hard time thinking of another option.

Does browning still even make one like browning?

No, the browning pump action, those are like very coveted, very hard to find.

Browning does make a lever action, they make the BLR, the full powered lever action

rifle, the L6, even up into like 338 wind nag or something ridiculous.

Don't have that as a truck on time.

No, I don't want to do that.

But if I was going to get a lever gun, I would probably get something like down like a 243

or a 308 or a 30L6.

Like I like PCC's, but I just, it's hard for me to justify it from a practical standpoint.

And if you just want one because they're fun, they're super fun.

But going back to your point, if it's a 350, if it's, let's say, real-world scenario,

you don't know what's going to happen.

And I have to reach in my truck and grab X, Y or Z.

I'm going to grab a pump shotgun over a lever action pistol caliber carbine

because the range is about the same.

The power was far better.

It's faster and it's more versatile.

So what am I doing?

I just, I think they're just fun.

And that's great.

Yeah, shotguns are quite enders too.

There was an informal study done years ago.

Because let's talk about leafality a bit here.

Years and years, yes.

A guy just basically went out and data raped manually.

Every report of a shooting he could find.

Officers civilian didn't matter.

And he rated it on, did the first shot stop the fight.

And then was it lethal?

And the thing about the handgun rounds was, there was very little difference

in those two metrics from 22 up to 45.

Very little difference.

It was, there was some, but it wasn't what you would think it would be.

There was a massive difference.

And first shot stop and and and lethality

when it went from handgun to rifle.

The shotgun was so far ahead of the other two though.

And I he may have back out bird shot

because our earlier discussion, right?

I remember that discussion and it was,

it didn't, it did include bird shot and included all the gauges too.

But it was still far, it was still far more potent

than most anything else.

Yeah, I forget the name of that study,

but it's a good one probably the best one still today.

Yeah, because what is your, what are your thoughts on lethality?

Like that's something that you don't want to talk about it,

but you got to talk about it.

Like because most of us that are gun people, like I said,

we, we, we might put deer in the freezer,

but that's only half of us.

The other half of us are just gun people.

Yeah.

And we do think about like self-confidence and stuff like that,

but I think there's this philosophy or this mindset in people's heads,

like they shoot somebody and then they'll go down.

And if you've ever had any good training,

the first thing to tell you is,

if you have to shoot somebody,

what you should expect to happen when you shoot them

is absolutely nothing.

Yeah.

Right? Like you, you, you, you, you have to stay on the task

until the threat is gone.

Yeah.

And so of all these options and all these ways,

what are your thoughts on lethality?

So my, my, if we're talking about against a human adversary,

the, the best way I've heard it articulated is,

I'm shooting to change their behavior.

Whatever behavior they were doing to made me start shooting them,

I will continue shooting until that behavior has changed.

Me too.

Right.

That behavior has changed.

Like if I pull out the gun and he puts his hands up and he says,

I don't want to play anymore,

I'm taking my ball and going home.

I'm like, sweet.

No paperwork for this guy.

Yeah.

If I shoot him once in it,

it's a weird angled shot and it barely does anything,

but he's like, oh, he's actually serious.

I'm done.

Perfect.

Like he's taking his ball and going home.

We're done.

He's going under arrest.

And that's all we're dealing with.

Now that said, I don't assume that.

You have to assume you have to get a physical shot,

which means damage to the system.

And if you're doing that again,

handguns are compromised.

You have them because they're convening.

You have them because you can have them all the time.

They're not fight stoppers.

Something like 80% of handgun wounds are not fatal.

Whether it's a 22 or a 337 Magnum.

They're just not as much difference as you would think.

Again, long guns like a proper rifle,

even an intermediate caliber like a 76239 or a 556,

that's a way better option than a handgun.

Perfect.

Also, they're much easier for most people to shoot and get hits with.

And the shotgun is the fight stopper inside a hundred yards.

Again, going back and being kicking down a door,

I care what's going to keep me alive.

And most of the time, that's an 870 or similar.

Vannelly or whatever.

But most of the time, it's 870 with buckshot and slugs,

because I probably don't need a 30-round match.

I probably need one or two really good shots.

They're going to stop a fight.

And the shotgun does that.

I mean, they're not as cool as the post.

The pictures of an old pump gun or not as

Instagram-y or whatever.

But man, a good shotgun that's reliable and that you point well

and can shoot well, they're just their fight stoppers.

They just are.

So that does tell us what my next question

was just about legality.

So we're talking about keeping guns in a truck here.

And I mean, I'll go ahead and say, it could be a car.

It's just, it tends to be the people that have this discussion

are more likely to drive a truck.

Yeah, that's why I call it a truck gun.

I mean, it can be a trunk gun.

I mean, it can be a trunk gun or a vehicle gun.

So, for legality, obviously, I'm not a lawyer.

I don't pretend to be one.

But here's what, don't listen to whatever somebody says on YouTube,

not listen to me.

Go to your actual penal code.

Go to your state penal code like the Texas state penal code.

And look up what it actually says.

And like, look up the term loaded.

Because in a lot of states loaded,

means you just can't have one in the chamber.

Well, you can have them in the tube.

You can have them in a magazine,

which is the way I'm probably going to carry any way in my truck gun.

So you might think it says you can't have it loaded.

Well, what does loaded actually mean?

Or what does secured actually mean?

Is secure just me and you can look all this up in the penal code.

Does secure just mean the car has to be locked?

Cool.

Does it mean it has to have something else?

Then do that.

You know, like if you want to buy it by that law,

but look up the actual penal code.

It's it's not that hard to understand.

If you, you know,

if you're going to do this,

spend 15 minutes and research your state penal code.

It's not that hard,

especially with,

especially with, you know,

search engines now.

It's different than when we actually had the books

and had to look it up.

It's 15 minutes of research.

You should be good.

Because guess what the lawyers are going to look at?

The penal code.

They have to judge it by the penal code.

So yeah, it doesn't matter.

But the judge, the jury,

that yeah,

does prosecutor.

Yeah.

Does not matter what the guy at the gun store says

or what your uncle says,

or what the gun tube glitterati say.

It matters what the penal code says.

So look at the penal code in your area.

That's what you'll be charged or not charged by.

So if you're good with that,

then then read the penal code.

And really make sure you know what you're doing

in the minute you cross a state line.

Because you get very accustomed to the way things are at home.

And for some people,

that's a bigger concern than others.

I mean, if you live in, you know,

near Texarkana,

you got a border to Arkansas,

Louisiana, and Texas,

and you know, within five miles.

Yeah, well, you live,

well, you grew up a big chunk of Pennsylvania.

You know, in Pennsylvania somewhere,

you could take the wrong exit and be in Maryland.

In Maryland, you have scums.

You could take the wrong exit

and be in like Massachusetts from New Hampshire.

And I've done that.

And like teaching on firearms glasses

in like New Hampshire,

and I get off the wrong exit.

I'm in Massachusetts and I'm a felon.

I took the wrong exit.

But like,

I'm going to teach a fighting handgun class.

Well, I can't have those in Massachusetts,

but I'm lost.

And I took the wrong exit.

And now I'm in Massachusetts

for the next 15 minutes.

I'm a felon.

So, it's like New Jersey,

same thing.

You're right there on the VA border.

I mean,

you can have a gun in your vehicle.

It has to be secure.

There has to be no ammo in it.

By unloading, they mean not inside the magazine.

Either it has to be separated.

And you have to be going

from somewhere to somewhere to use it.

Like, I'm going to the range.

I'm going hunting, something like that.

And that includes, like,

if a cop wants to be a dick,

well, you were hunting

and you're on your way home

and you stopped at a grocery store.

Like, they can push that

in some of those states.

New York's the same way.

I one time ended up

with a rifle in the trunk of my vehicle

in New York City.

And it was just one of those, like,

quick vacation hunting trips

and like, oh,

holy shit.

And I'm like,

I could have ruined my fucking life.

Yeah.

And so you got to be careful.

I mean, it's there is that

there is that clause

that you can drive

as long as it's legal

where you're driving from

and where you're driving to.

It's a federal law

which will supersede state law.

If you're driving from somewhere

and to somewhere,

then if it's legal

on both your restrictions,

it's legal going through.

There's like a clause for that.

Because obviously,

if you're moving off the East

and Seaboard

and you got all your stuff

in your U-Haul

and you're going to the new Hampshire,

you got to pass

to a bunch of states

where that's not cool.

So there is that clause.

Yeah.

I wouldn't test that day to day,

but it is there.

And it has been used before.

So, but again, day to day,

I would just go

and stick with a penal code.

And that probably bring us into theft

if you want to talk about it.

Yeah, I do.

That's exactly where I'm going.

Then I says,

what if you have a gun

and it's stolen?

There is some liability

potentially

if something happens

with that gun because of you.

It's also very expensive.

And I don't want to lose it.

And then another side of it is

even if I'm not legally held,

I don't want my gun

to be used in some other crime

that it became out of my hands.

Like, I think, you know,

you and I were both military

and there's,

you don't lose your freaking weapon.

Like, when you sleep,

if you've got your rifle issue,

you have the freaking thing

wrapped around your arm when you sleep.

Not everybody thinks that way.

Yeah.

Yeah, and that's a fair point.

But the one thing,

I think people have this thing with guns.

Like, guns are some super,

super weapon or something like that.

But here's the thing.

Somebody can also break

into your car.

And a car is just as dangerous

as a weapon as the gun.

Probably more so.

Maybe more, yeah.

But going back to your think

like the bad guy,

I could probably destroy

just as many people's lives

in a day with the vehicle

as I came with a gun.

Just go to the nearest,

you know, open air shopping mall.

I think those still exist.

And just plow a bunch of people down.

I don't need a gun for that.

So nobody thinks about,

oh, somebody breaks into my car.

This is my car.

I'm liable.

If somebody hits somebody with it.

The same way is like,

I'm not going to go leave my gun loaded

and put it at the, you know,

the local little league field.

Just like, well, they shouldn't touch it.

Like, I'm not saying that.

Have it locked up in your car.

But I'm not.

It's not my fault

if somebody breaks into my car

and takes my gun.

I'm not going to leave it all in the seat.

But if somebody breaks into my car

and steals my car and hits somebody with it,

I don't feel liable for that.

Nor am I liable if somebody takes

that breaks into my car

or steals my gun

and then goes shoot somebody with it.

It's, it's an object.

And both.

So my, like, what if it gets stolen?

Yeah.

But what if I need that gun

and I don't have one?

That's a much bigger problem to me

because if I'm going to grab my truck gun

for a tactical purpose,

like it's life or death.

So if that's a much bigger issue to me,

if somebody breaks into my car

and steals my gun, I'll report a stolen,

which you should.

I do report the serial number stolen.

It's not on you.

But that's not your fault

if it gets stolen out of the car.

If you need a long gun,

for something you need a long gun for,

and you don't have one,

and like somebody else dies,

that's a much bigger issue to me.

Yeah.

And if criminal is going to get a gun,

they're going to get a gun.

Like, it's not like if I don't put a gun

on my car,

the criminals are going to have guns.

So, you know, I would much more

of rather have access to a long gun

most of the time than be concerned.

And I've had guns stolen out of vehicles

that you report it stolen.

It is what it is.

And guess what?

I've got more guns.

I can buy another gun.

I can't, I can't materialize a gun in my truck.

Yeah, we don't have a gun.

You know, gun.

So we don't have that energy transport.

Scott, you beat me a phaser.

We don't have that.

You either have it, you know.

That would be great.

And as long as you possess stuff in this world,

it can be stolen.

Yeah.

Somebody can break into your house and break into it.

I was like, are you breaking your house

or still your guns?

Yeah, nobody's as concerned about that.

And that happens all the time too.

So yeah, if you own something,

it can be stolen.

But I'd rather have it

accessible if I need it.

Because if somebody is trying to kill me,

I'm not driving home to get in my gun safe

and get my gun and drive back to where it is.

That's just not how it works.

So the whole point of having a truck

on is having it,

hopefully, if you need it quickly.

Are there any wild cards in this

or maybe some other guns

that might be good options

that we haven't discussed?

Man, we talked about the 760.

That's a sleeper.

You and I know about it.

But most people, especially if they

grew up in the past 20 years

and they're not

in that circle where their grandpa

hunts was one,

they don't know about the 760.

That's a phenomenal one.

Let's see, the Mini-14 we touched on.

That's kind of a, you know,

a more obscure gun.

There's also the whole PDWR

which makes a lot of sense for this

which doesn't really fall into any category.

But like a pistol

that you and I both know is not a pistol,

but like a pistol with an arm brace.

Right?

There's all those.

And for the average person

that doesn't train handgun in a lot,

that's a big step up for them.

You know, the average person

gets out the, you know,

50, 75 yards of that

where the average person

cannot get that

with 25 yards or the regular handgun.

You practice you can,

but for the average person

that's a big step up

but one of those,

one of those brace pistols, right?

That, and you also got the other PDWR

now that, you know,

the pistol braces are kosher

for the ATF.

A good short-barreled AR.

Again, they're affordable.

That's a lot more firepower,

like a 10 and a half inch,

11 and a half inch.

You can put in a much smaller bag

under a seat

where maybe a regular rifle won't fit.

And that's a big step up

and firepower versus a,

versus even a big handgun.

It's an exponential step up.

So I think those are worth considering

for the average.

The average American is a liberal.

They live urban suburban.

Like a big chunk of the population.

So for them,

that, that kind of in between

PDWR is a really good one.

One of the guns I really like,

and I don't know so much for a truck gun

because I have space in a truck.

So I probably wouldn't go here

because we already talk about

limitations of like

pistol caliber carbines and all.

But the KELTEX Sub-2K.

Oh, yeah.

That would be original.

Before everybody tried to put 17 optics

on it and shit just the bare bones.

Peepsite setup,

mashing your handgun situation

because I had like a roller computer case.

And when I used to

still work in the regular world,

I could put that thing in there and

it doesn't exist.

And when it's broken down,

it ain't got anything in the chamber

which is impossible to do when it's broken down.

It ain't loaded according to Texas.

And it's a long gun.

And before we had open carry and everything else,

that opened a whole additional point

where you had something that was legal

where you were

that if you had a handgun

and you didn't have a permit

or even go back to like the 90s before we,

because we people think Texas guns,

everybody got guns.

It was like 96 or 97

when we got concealed carry here.

Yeah.

We could carry in our vehicles

with no permit whatsoever.

You could drive around back then

with it in the console,

visible if a cop pulls you over.

As long as you put your hands on it,

not smart, but you could.

But you could not carry a gun on your person.

It was almost no way for a civilian to do it

just what 30 years ago here.

Yeah. Yeah.

People forget how much for all the bad stuff

that's going on with the guns and gun control,

they could still carry things like game changer.

It has them for the past 30 years.

And the Deceptu K is just a fantastic.

It's affordable.

I forget there's they're so affordable.

They're fantastic.

It's for the average shooter.

It's a lot easier to get hits with a Sub-2K

than it is with any handgun.

They're phenomenal.

They're straight blowbacks.

So they're about a simple operating

as a semi-auto can be.

They're, I'd probably stick with 9mm,

but there's a bunch of different calibers.

I mean, they're great guns.

They're never, they fold.

You put them in a backpack if you have to,

you don't live in a place where you can legally carry.

And you got to leave your car

because there's a traffic dam or whatever.

And you got to get out of town,

put it in the bag.

Yeah, the Sub-2K is,

I think, under-appreciated,

because they've been around so long.

They were so early kind of ahead of their time.

They're, even I forgot about them, so.

Yeah, they're fantastic.

And they're fun as hell.

I mean, it has to be honest.

They're fun as hell.

And with a 9mm one,

there is no recoil.

No perceivable recoil,

because once you have that anger,

they're not ergonomic.

Like, you don't get a great cheek well,

but you can get a good cheek well

if you practice with it.

And so I just throw that out.

There isn't like a wild card.

Yeah, they're great.

There's probably more,

there's probably a lot of room in the market

for stuff more like that.

But I don't know that you can do much better

if you want simplicity.

And they weigh like three pounds.

They weigh nothing.

They're ridiculous to light.

A lot of the other PCCs,

the reason I don't generally recommend

like a PCC like the other ones

is they weigh like five or six pounds.

If I'm going to carry some five or six pounds,

I'm going to go to an AR,

because it weighs six pounds.

That's way, way better.

And almost every perceivable way.

But the Sub-2K is like three pounds.

That's the significant difference.

And the fact that I could put in a laptop bag,

like most of the Urban Lights,

a laptop bag, nobody's going to think twice

about you walking around

even public transportation if it's legal.

With a laptop.

You need more like a four-size-laptop bag,

but a standard full-size-laptop bag

or a laptop kind of like office roller.

I used to have one of them about yay thick,

about getting just thick

with multiple compartments and all.

And I had kind of designed in

to where like, if you didn't,

you could find it if you searched the whole thing.

But if you didn't know it was there,

you were, I mean,

you could have reached anywhere on my laptop

or you'd never know it was there.

But I could have it out in seconds, you know.

Yeah.

Let's say you're the kind of guy

that does like work where you travel

and stay in hotels a lot.

Man, you put that thing in a bag

and then you get in your hotel

and you snap it together

and then you got a long gun in your hotel room

and then you leave and your work truck

with your work crew

that maybe they're not all on board with gun guys,

they're not going to know.

They're not like there's a lot to be said

for like a foldable collapse

and we'll go like to help that sub too.

But if for people listening,

there's some legality loophole

that you get help with here,

you cannot chamber it

and have it broke down.

And it cannot be fired when it's broke down

because you'll have a receiver

on one side and the barrel on the other.

But it can hold a magazine

while it's folded.

It locks.

There is a release

and it's click

and it's loaded and ready to go.

And it's that fast.

If for anybody,

it's never fired one,

seen one, held one.

And yeah,

I don't know what they sell for today

but I think I bought mine for like 300

or something,

bucks brand new at a gun show.

You know, talking about wild cards and Celtic,

they also make the SU-16

and that one is like a

it's like a fold in half AR.

It's a piston gun.

I'm not saying to go deploy

in the sandbox with one.

Yeah, yeah.

I've been very impressed with them over the years.

And they can even fire fold if you had to

when you grab it out of the bag.

But it's like,

it's a 556,

the piston driven.

So it's a good system.

And it's the same,

like if you wanted an option similar to that

but you wanted an a rifle caliber.

The SU-16s,

I forgot until we were talking,

I forgot about those.

But those are also like

four pounds or something ridiculous

and like they fold.

The ammunition is like so common.

I mean, that's also a

movie good wild card,

especially if you're like

in and out of hotels

and that's the only long gun you're going to have.

Yeah, it's not a bad choice.

How have you ever felt

about the Roni carbines with basically

you take a lock handgun

or say making for other handguns

and they go inside?

Have you have you used those at all?

I'm not the biggest fan of those for me.

But again, for the for the person

that doesn't train him gun a lot,

I think they really can be

a big step up.

Like you could teach a 12-year-old girl to shoot

and get hit out, you know,

50, 75 yards with that thing.

So I think for that,

I'm also the guy that generally carries

several long guns in his truck.

You got it anyway, so yeah.

It's one of those things like

the lever gun.

Like I'm not going to fall

you for having one.

They're definitely more shootable

and they're definitely easier to train

somebody on than a traditional handgun.

Yeah, they're a lot more,

they're not as good

ergonomic as a rifle,

but they're an in between

they're a lot better than a handgun.

So,

they're just the cartoon layer, right?

I'm just trying to think beyond you

and other people in their situations like

that truly is a laptop bag gun.

Like a runny or the the the sig

flux.

Yeah, that truly is a laptop bag gun.

Like you could literally have

an irregular laptop bag

with a water bottle hanging off of it

and nobody's going to think it'd be any of the wiser

and you got what?

I think they come with like

25, 30-round mags and nothing neat that,

but like you put that in a spare box of ammo

and you're going on a road trip

in an urban environment.

Like that's a fantastic choice.

So the caution with the runny is

basically it's not a firearm,

anybody can buy one.

But when you drop that block

inside it,

you just make an SBR.

And so you need a

tax stamp to go with it.

Well, you do if you get the stock one,

but the pistol base where you don't.

Yeah, it's a great one, I think.

Yeah.

Well, they make one that basically has a harness,

a sling,

and this is a great option.

If it's all you have or you need this format

in instead of pulling back on a stock,

the way this and I've shot them

and they're pretty damn stable,

you're pushing out

and the sling is pulling it

and then you're firing it like

a short barrel rifle.

But it's legally not one.

It's just an interesting little thing,

but it's a lot easier to

or more economical to obtain tax stamps now.

Anyway, so.

Yeah, the tax stamp is free now,

but the only thing with that is

especially with the SBRs is

I don't think they've changed.

And I could be wrong about this,

but whenever, legally,

whenever you change states going to go in and out of states,

when you change states with an SBR

or an SBS,

you have to notify the ATF

with a written letter.

So that's a giant pain in the ball.

Like I'm not going to do that.

Like I'm just going to stay with something else

because even though the tax stamp is zero,

if you live somewhere where you change,

where you drive in and out of state,

like even me, I'm not that far from my own in Montana.

Okay.

And not that they care,

but the ATF cares.

And if you did something did happen

and you had even if you had it legally

and you had the tax stamp,

you're supposed to notify them

unless that's been rescinded.

And I don't, I didn't heard of that.

I'm not going to get into that one with us.

What's that?

I don't have to dig into that one

because I'm not sure.

I mean, I live in a state so big.

It takes effort to leave here.

And I don't have any of the ronies,

but I do have some other things

that that might pertain to.

Anyway, man,

hey, you want to tell people

how they glory more from you?

Oh, yeah.

Gunfighter Life Podcast.

I took your advice, say what you do

and do what you say.

Gunfighter Life Podcast.

I still have good shepherd training,

which is like the umbrella.

You probably find me there too,

but Gunfighter Life is the main podcast.

I try and get a podcast out most days,

even with working the other job.

So if you're really into the nerdy,

I'll talk about ballistics,

you know, the 30 out of six versus a 270 for an hour

or whatever.

So I've done two entire series on truck guns,

like just one whole episode on shotguns

and all that stuff.

But Gunfighter Life Podcast is the main way there.

And obviously, expert counsel,

go to Jack and ask me a question there

if you want to hear it.

That is basically it.

Well, hey, Mike.

I appreciate you being with us today.

And I've got links to all your stuff

that you can find anyway.

And in the show notes today,

it'll be on the audio side.

So if you're watching this video,

write down in the video notes.

There's a link that'll go over to the episode

at thesurvivalpodcast.com.

And you can get all the additional resources

for today's show there.

If you're watching us live,

instead of the replay,

that'll think about 30 minutes from right now

because I have to do it.

And it takes time to do it.

They've done just show up there magically.

But boy, if I could set that up, I would.

That would be great.

Podcast and a live stream on YouTube.

And it just, there's a technology for that.

We just haven't built it yet.

All right, Mike.

Thank you for being with us today.

I appreciate it.

Yeah, thanks Jack.

Thanks CSP.

Have a bus day.

Take care.

All right folks, real quick is we wrap up here.

I want to remind you that you can help us out.

By doing your online shopping at a little website,

specifically a short domain that redirects to a page

on my main site, tspaz.com.

Tspaz.com.

If you do your online shopping,