Trump ‘getting a little bored’ with Iran War, MS NOW reports

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Tonight on All In, how many of you would like to see impeachment hearings?

That was the wrong answer. Confusion and concern sweep the nation as a distracted

president wages war. That's a beautiful tractor. That's a gold tractor.

Somebody had me in mind. What's that all about?

Tonight the growing evidence that the president is bored

with his war of choice. They have to open up the straight of Trump, I mean, farmers.

Excuse me, I'm so sorry. Such a terrible mistake.

Then as the airport nightmares continue, why House Republicans just chose to extend their

own shutdown and stunning new reporting from the New York Times about racism at the highest

levels of the Pentagon. We became the woke department, but not anymore.

What All In starts right now.

Good evening from New York. I'm Chris Hayes. Last night we played you a bit of Donald Trump's

cabinet meeting yesterday. It was a long one. We just played some highlights, low lights.

And it was when our wartime president went on a bizarre long tangent for about five minutes

about the pen that was sitting on the table in front of him.

So this pen is very inexpensive, but it writes well. I like it, but I can't have the pen to wait.

It was, you know what it is. I don't want to give too much publicity, but they do trip me

with Sharpie. Like all the guy, I said, I'd like to use your pen, but I can't have a great thing

with a big ass on it. He said, why can't make it nicer? He said, what can you do? He said,

I'll paint it black. I said, that's nice. And I can even paint the White House on it,

sir, if you like, in gold, almost real gold, not bad. And I can even do your signature, sir,

but the bottom line is the better pens. It's a business story. So for five dollars could be zero,

but for five dollars, I get a much better pen than for a thousand dollars.

You've really got to be careful not to inhale the fumes from those things.

That was a really weird moment in the middle of a presidential cabinet meeting in the middle

of a war. What is even more weird is that none of that even happened? Like, maybe he just

imagined the whole story? Today, the Washington Post reached out to Sharpie for a comment.

A spokesperson from the company said Trump's supposed conversation with the head of Sharpie

never happened. The White House did not respond to a request from more information.

Think about that. The man who made up that story about Sharpie, a guy who really seems to be

leaning into his Abe Simpson era, is arguably the most powerful man on earth.

Someone that can make decisions that impact matters of life and death, who is making decisions,

that impact life and death every day. The man who declared war on Iran 27 days ago,

that was a cabinet meeting about the war, ostensibly. But as you might have noticed recently,

the president is bored of his war. His advisors have noticed it too. As one senior White House official

tells MSNOW, quote, Trump is getting a little bored with Iran, not that he regrets it or something.

He's just bored and wants to move on. This is a guy who gets his daily briefings in the form

of two minute highlight videos. And every time you see him, he wants to talk about something else.

Like when he called into Fox last night, and Dana Paredo did her level best to serve up a softball question.

We have not been able to see or hear from any of the Iranian people.

Do you have any insight as to how they are doing? Do they have drinking water? Do they have food?

Right. I do. It's upsetting. I do. But first, do you remember when we had lunch years ago in the

base of Trump Tower, when it was a brand new building? A long time ago. Yes. A long time ago. You

haven't changed. Now I'm not allowed to say this. It's the end of my political career, but you

may be even better looking. Okay. That was a former spokeswoman from Georgia. He

pushed trying to get Trump to put some sort of humanitarian gloss on his bombardment of Iran.

And all Trump wants to tell her is that she looks hot. In fact, hotter than ever. That's how

focused he is. All he'll say publicly is that he's already won the war. So what are you even

asking about? Even as he is ordering thousands more soldiers, Marines, aircraft and ships into

position for options, including a possible ground invasion of Carg Island, a base for the Iranian

forces who were pinning down oil tankers in the Straits of Planoos. That would be an escalation

so dangerous that even the foundation for defensive democracies, a neocon think tank that hardly ever

saw a Middle East war it didn't like, says it would be, and I quote them here, a trap of America's

own making. Adding quote, a seizure of Carg Island would be a high-risk operation involving large

numbers of US forces that could lead to significant casualties. Do the president know that? Who knows?

Is he even interested enough to find out? Probably not. Here we are. I mean, even if you step back

and try to assess the last month, it looks for all the world like Iran has gained the upper hand

and the White House can't figure out what to do about it. Iran continues to have a kind of chokehold

on 20% of the world's entire fossil fuel oil supply. It's reigning explosives on almost a dozen

countries. It's making more money off oil experts than it ever did under US sanctions.

And for what exactly? New York Times reports Iranian attacks have forced the evacuation of

multiple American bases in the Middle East. US troops in the region are essentially having to

telecommute to work from hotels and office spaces. American service members are living and working

in hotels. In fact, just today, officials tell the Wall Street Journal that an attack on the

Prince Sultan Air Base in Saudi Arabia injured 10 US service members to were gravely wounded.

At same base, it was attacked two weeks ago, damaging five refueling aircraft.

And while the Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth keeps announcing that the US has

destroyed Iran's air defenses and that their missile volume is down 90%,

five people familiar with the intelligence told Reuters today, the US can only definitively confirm

that a third of Iran's missile arsenal has been destroyed. Not 90% a third. So that is a big

difference directly contradicting Hegseth and Trump. And in terms of our missiles, which there

are not an infinite amount of, the Washington Post reports today, the US military has burned through,

get this more than 850 Tomahawk cruise missiles in four weeks. Those things run about two or

three million a pop just if you're keeping track and has been alarming Pentagon officials who

are discussing how to make more available. The entire US military is feeling the strain, whether

Donald Trump's border or not, they're still doing their job. Even the biggest symbol of American

firepower, the big new nuclear-powered aircraft carrier Gerald Ford had to leave the Middle East after

a massive laundry room fire and import this week inspectors have found a laundry list of problems

on the $13 billion ship that calls into its battle readiness into question.

This is what incompetence and indifference and, well, distraction look like.

Donald Trump ordered an unnecessary war that he thought would bring him, I think,

instant glory in a polling boost. It's killed more than 4,600 people, the vast majority in Iran.

It is displaced more than a million from their homes. It's less at least 13 American

service members dead injured hundreds more. We're thinking, of course, tonight about those two

who were gravely wounded in the attack on Prince Sultan Air Base. It is creating massive shortages

of oil and fertilizer and products that everyone relies on, threatening a global economic downturn

that could ignite mass famine. Today, markets tanks further, oil rose to $100 a barrel, $110 a barrel,

the Dow entered correction territory down more than a point and a half. And now, almost four weeks in,

Trump is plainly bored. He'd much rather go look at a golden tractor.

That's a beautiful tractor. That's a gold tractor. Somebody had me in mind, what's that all about?

That's a hell of a tractor. I'm looking at this. That's a good one too. Red, white, and blue,

but somebody really hit me with that one. That's beautiful.

Every parent has encountered this. He is bored with his old toy. He wants to play with the new ones,

like a golden tractor and a golden ballroom and a golden sharpie. While the United States is stuck

in the middle of another indefensible disasterous expensive work chosen and waged by the last person

on this earth you would ever want to rely on in a war.

Senator Chris Coons, Democrat Adele, where serves on the Foreign Relations Committee,

he's also a ranking member of the Appropriations Subcommittee on Defense, and he joins me now.

Senator, I want to start with some of the reporting that we've had about these sort of

a question of munitions and be this question of just the degree to which even the one thing

that it seemed the war had maybe accomplished, the degradation of Iran's military capabilities,

whether we really actually even know that. What is your understanding of that?

Well, Chris, my sense is that we've all along known that Iran has a massive reservoir of drones,

of cheap lethal drones that they can keep firing day after day after day to keep the

Strait of Hormuz closed, to strike civilian targets in the region like airports and hotels,

gas and oil works, and that they have successfully launched at our embassies and our bases.

A principle goal of this war, at least as the US military has described it, was

downgrading their ability to make and defy our advanced ballistic missiles. There's been some

progress there, but as the Ukrainians have demonstrated in their defense against Russia's

war of aggression, they make new drones by the hundreds every single day in a scattered array

of garages and basements. I think that the Iranians will be able to keep firing drones at us

over and over and over that cost 20 to $40,000 and we're intercepting them with missiles and

interceptors that cost hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars. That just doesn't work

out well for us and our allies as our reserves of sophisticated interceptors are getting lower.

You are on that appropriation subcommittee and the cost of this is a lot. It's estimated between

one and two billion dollars a day, just the Tomahawk missiles. People talked about refueling aircraft

that have been hit on and on and on. It's our understanding from public reporting, the Pentagon

seeking a $200 billion war supplemental. Are you a yes or no on that?

Look Chris, I'm not going to vote for a supplemental that's a backdoor way to authorize a war

where President Trump never came to the American people and to Congress. He's contemplating

sending thousands of our troops into harm's way. He doesn't have a clear justification

or target for this war. He's talked about regime change. He's talked about securing

enriched uranium. He's talked about sinking their navy and degrading their missile capability.

But he hasn't delivered to the American people a clear argument for why they need hundreds of

billions of dollars. And Chris, I'll remind our viewers that last year in reconciliation,

they took away hundreds of billions of dollars for healthcare and nutrition programs

from middle Americans to pay for a massive tax cut. Where's that money? How has it been spent

and why is it a good idea to instead of helping keep America healthy to spend that money on a war

of choice in the Middle East? I quoted this in the intro of the foundation for defensive

democracies, which has been, I think, in the time that I've covered politics in Washington and

this issue, a fairly vocal advocate of a more confrontational approach to the wrong, let's say.

Basically publishing a piece, trying to kind of do this to the president about some kind of ground

operation in Carg Island, it strikes me that there's pretty bipartisan cross ideological concern

right now. You're hearing it from Republicans in the Hill who are getting out of briefings

and Democrats as well. And now this think tank that it's possible we're on the precipice of

something very, very dangerous that could be really bad for U.S. service members. Are you concerned

as well? Of course, Chris. Look, we've already lost 13 American service members and hundreds have

been seriously injured. The cost to the average American is going up and up as gas is now four

dollars a gallon. It's gone up a dollar in the last month and the disruption to the global economy

were already seeing it in the rising price of a barrel of oil and the lowering values of the stock

market. So the fact that we have a president who's so easily distracted by shiny objects,

whether a sharpie pan or a new gold tractor has to be alarming as he is weighing the ultimate

decision, whether to introduce thousands of troops in an attempt at pulling off a Venezuela style,

a quick, clean effort to take over Iran's oil. It won't be quick, it won't be clean, it won't

be costless and it may well tie down thousands of our troops and cost huge casualties. I hope

that our president will reconsider and that the folks who are urging him to back away from

introducing our troops onto the ground in Iran will succeed because the costs will be just too high

for the American people. There is someone at the National Security Council who was on the Iran desk.

And his name is Nate Swanson. And days before Trump attacked Iran, he published a piece

basically predicting precisely how this would go. Iran would draw the US into a quagmire

of attack that essentially they would fire their missiles and drones at the oil infrastructure

of nearby countries. They would hold the straighter for a moose. This individual was basically

chased out of the National Security Council because an Islamophobic and bigoted crank named Laura

Loomer chased him out and is no longer at the Iran desk. And when the president got in front

of cameras the other day, he said, well, no one predicted they would do exactly what this individual

and everyone who worked the Iran desk predicted. How much does it matter that a crank is essentially

has veto power over personnel when you're trying to competently pull off American foreign policy

or strategy? Chris, it matters a lot that the Trump administration and president Trump in particular

is listening as much to online influencers as he is to our intelligence community and our military.

And frankly, seasoned and capable folks who have views, he just doesn't want to hear. Part of how

we got into this mess, Chris, was that president Trump learned the wrong lesson from the previous

two times he struck Iran. He killed Kossum Sulamani, the head of the IRGC in his first term. And he

was warned there would be big blowback, but it didn't come. He bombed Iran last year attacking their

nuclear enrichment sites. And he was warned there were big blowback, but it didn't come. This time

he announced one of the goals of the war was regime change. And so he should have foreseen that

the IRGC would use every tool they've got and shut down the straight of Hormuz and strike targets

all over the Gulf. That would have been obvious to anyone who has studied the region or thought about

history, but president Trump hasn't listened, hasn't learned and is now putting us at great risk.

You just got to hope he's getting better advice in the ballroom, Senator Chris Coons. Thank you

so much for your time. Thank you, Chris. Coming up as Trump's Iran quagmire continues shocking,

genuinely shocking. New reporting for New York Times on racial discrimination at the highest

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Mirror remember a year ago when shortly after returning the White House Donald Trump

fired several high ranking military service members who would say just happened to be black

and women. They included the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. That's a big deal that

chief of naval operations and the US representative to NATO. There was no reason to think any of them

had done anything wrong with their duties. Well, today the New York Times is out with explosive

new reporting that gives a little insight into the decisions being made at the Pentagon.

The time reports that this month Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth is quote,

unilaterally blocking the promotion of four army officers to be one star generals.

Something it's not even clear he has the legal authority to do. It's really, really irregular.

The Times explained that two of the officers targeted by Hegseth are black and two are women.

They all had quote, decades-long records of exemplary service. But Hegseth removed them from

a promotion list that consists of about three dozen officers, most of whom are white men.

The Times is reporting based on interviews with 11 current and former military officials.

Three of them told the Times about a dust up last summer. Listen to this. It was between Hegseth's

chief of staff, Ricky Buria, and the Secretary of the Army, Dan Driscoll. The Times reports

quote that Buria chastised the army secretary for selecting major general Antoinette Gantt,

a combat engineer who served in Iraq and Afghanistan to take command of the military district of

Washington located there in DC. Buria told Driscoll that President Trump would not want to stand next

to a black female officer at military events. I'm going to repeat that. According to the Times,

the chief of staff to the Secretary of Defense told the Secretary of the Army that the president

of the United States would not want to stand next to a black woman officer at military events.

Now, in that one case last year, the Times reports that Driscoll argue with Buria that quote,

the president is not a racist or sexist. Let me be the judge of that.

But General Gantt did ultimately get the promotion. The same right now cannot be said for the

other four this month. Kyle Vivi served as a Marine Corps infantry captain in Afghanistan as

political partner of Truman National Security Project. He's a co-founder and co-CEO of the Black

Veterans Project. April Ryan is the longest serving Black White House correspondent. He's now at

the Contrarian where she hosts the tea. They both joined me now. Colossus, I have you here and

you yourself are a veteran. I have to say, I mean, I think the threshold for being shocked is very

high these days. I found that quote, almost knock me out of my chair. What's your reaction to it?

Well, I think a lot of people are going to be obviously shocked, but not necessarily surprised,

as they say. If you look at this history that we've had at this administration, I mean,

you opened with the firing of General Brown, Admiral Franchetti. There was the controversy around

Black history being removed from the DOD websites. After some uproar, they silently put it back.

They scrubbed Jackie Robinson of all people in his service off the DOD website.

Yeah, so there was the controversy regarding Christian nationalists,

religious leaders being brought to speak to the troops. I think that it's a very clear message

that's being sent here to service members, to people who maybe are thinking of joining the

military. That Black service members are not welcome, that women are not welcome. The rules

and changes to expel gay and transgender service members, you know, it is a very clear message that

this is a military that's going to be led by a white nationalist movement.

April, I'm having covered this administration and having been the target of some of the

presidents at Trillon Venom at times, your reaction to this reporting from the Times.

It's great reporting, but there is hypocrisy from this administration. If we just look

back a couple of weeks ago, Condoleezza Weiss, who at one time happened to be then President

George W. Bush is one of his chief confidants and Secretary of State, and also in the intelligence

community, happened to be at the White House recently, and she was in the East Room,

and current President Donald Trump pulled her to the side and they walked back down the red carpet,

back to the, I guess the elevator, and to talk, and this was around the time of the beginning

of the war with Iran. So there's hypocrisy there, and then also think about this as

Hexat doesn't want to deal with DEI. Think about who has been in the military from almost the

inception of this nation when we were fighting wars. It's enslaved Africans. You cannot erase that

history, and Truman was the first president to officially integrate the wars of African-Americans

who've been fighting in U.S. wars since before the Civil War. So they need to get their history

right and figure out what they're going to do, because you can't change this history. The facts

are the facts. You know, it's striking to me, and I don't want to overstate the case about the U.S.

Armed Forces, but it does strike me that in a country that can be very segregated in many ways,

if you just look at like the demographics we have on residential segregation and education,

that to April's point, you know, it was one of the first institutions to be desegregated

in the United States. It was one of the early civil rights fights in the 20th century before the sort

peak of those desegregation fights in the 50s and 60s, that it also has been kind of a model of

pluralism and integration and sort of multiracial coming together, and to watch what Pete

Hegseth is doing to it just seems so anathema to them. Yeah, I think there's that old saying

accusations or confessions. Pete Hegseth comes into this saying, he's going to depoliticize the

military. It's exact opposite of what these people are doing. They are again interested in a white

nationalist project, and unfortunately, you know, it really is, it undermines really the centerpiece

of military history. As you said, one of the first institutions to desegregate U.S. military,

people generally view the military as a place where meritocracy and, you know, supporting one

another is very important for our role because our lives may depend on the people next to us,

and we've always been a reflection of this country. So, you know, to implement what we've been

calling this sort of like a neo-segregationist movement within the military and within our broader

society, it really serves not just as a slap in the face of people who served, but also ultimately

makes us less safe. We don't have a safe democracy without representative military.

Well, and also, April, I mean, your point there about the sort of, you know, they have couched

everything as, quote, DEI and wokeness and on and on and on. I mean, I think it doesn't get really

even past the SNF test or laugh test when you're talking about like promotions to one-star general.

That is not what's going on here quite clearly. It's not, it's, but it seems to me that they

have used that rhetoric to basically smuggle in what is just very old-fashioned discrimination.

Like, not giving someone a promotion because they're black or a woman is just a straightforward

violation of 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, a legal understatute, but also just the oldest

thing in the book. It's not there's nothing newfangled about it.

Right. Chris, I can't help but think just hours before we go into the note games day.

This is once again an effort to gin up the base. But I also think about the fact that this is

something that can quell the morale, quench the morale, let's say that of black service members.

What is it? How many, was the percentage of black service members in the infantry about 40 percent?

If I were black and hear that, I'm going to say, well, why am I here? I can't, there's no room to

rise. And I can't also help but think about the late-grade general, Colin Powell, who believed in

affirmative action. He was a Republican, many Republicans didn't agree, but he understood the

basis of what the military was founded on. And he kept promoting that. And then you have Hegseth,

who is anti-Wolk anti-DEI. This administration is making it clear who they support and who they

don't, but they're not standing with what has happened in the Republican Party and what this

country has done when it comes to the military. Who would want to support and fight in the military

seriously when if you are a minority thinking that you have no room to rise to greater heights?

Yeah, that point. I mean, we're having this conversation as US members are being deployed,

service members are headed to the Gulf for a possible to be sent into a grounded,

extremely dangerous ground invasion of Iran. And the folks that are on those

transports are black and white and Latino and Asian and gay and straight and

all the sort of panoply of American life. And this is something I'm going to be reading on their

phones as they head towards that danger. Yeah, it's a real slap in the face. You know, to think that

you would be sent down a range on a mission, you know, another potentially endless war in the

Middle East with no defined strategy or goals. And then you're going to come back to the United

States and have Pete Hegseth cherry pick your promotion after your peers go through robust

process of determining whether or not you're worthy of that rank. It's a slap in the face. And

quite frankly, you know, it's going to undermine the morale of troops, I'm sure. Kyle Bibby and April

Ryan, thank you both for making a little time for us tonight. Appreciate you.

Still ahead. Why the magma mess in America's airports looks like it's not ending anytime soon.

That's next.

For weeks, Republicans have tried to blame Democrats for the long TSA lines that have become a

hallmark of the DHS shutdown. But now, House Republicans are the ones unilaterally prolonging

the crisis in American airports. Even after the Senate passed a bill with unanimous support,

all the senators, both parties, that would fund DHS for several more weeks. It would fund TSA

crucially and not ICE. That deal, by the way, has been available for weeks. Democrats have

been pushing it. They've been voted down nine times. It's a deal that Donald Trump personally

has killed multiple times. But finally, the Senate got it through and it went to the House and

what happened? Speaker Mike Johnson's already rejecting the measure, calling it a joke.

According to new reporting from the MS now, House Republicans are privately criticizing Johnson's

opposition with one lawmaker reportedly saying, quote, we are going to suffer the blame.

New Jersey Senator Andy Kim serves on the Homeland Security Committee.

It was debating the DHS funding bill in the Senate until 2.30 AM. He joins me now.

Senator, first, I guess, just because it's been a little hard to follow this particular bouncing ball.

You know, it did seem to me there was a deal in the table. Democrats said, hey, let's just pass

everything that isn't ICE and customs and border protection. And then we can deal with that later.

Donald Trump basically vetoed it. Finally, there was a breakthrough in the Senate and you guys

got it done. And now what? Well, let me reframe it in some ways here because I think another way to

look at this is let's fund everything where they're not getting funded right now. So TSA,

CISO, FEMA, they're not getting paid, whereas ICE, CBP, they are getting paid right now because

of the reconciliation bill. So we wanted to make sure that we're moving forward. And especially

addressing TSA that has been on the minds of so many Americans stuck in lines at the airport.

We call the Republicans bluff here. It's very clear that the House Republicans are showing this

was actually not about TSA for them. This was about their own political power. Right now it's for

Speaker Johnson. It's about his own job. He cares about his own survival rather than about the

tens of thousands of jobs of TSA and others. So, you know, this is really a sign here of just

very strong unity amongst the Democrats, especially over the last 48 hours in both the Senate

last night and in the House today. And just absolute chaos amongst Republicans as they see no way

out of this giant hole that they dug themselves into that the American people are watching.

And it's just something that is absolutely showing how they are on the wrong side of the American

people. I'm going to play what the Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, had to say about what the

House is going to do with this bill, which is basically ignore it and pass their own thing. Take a

listen. House Republicans will have no part in reopening the border and stopping

illegal immigration enforcement. And that's exactly what this piece of legislation attempts to do.

We're not trying to roll the Senate. We're trying to do the obvious common sense moral thing and

that is keep the government funded for two more months so we can sort out the differences between

the party. What do you say that? Yeah, I mean, it's just a lie and just, you know, it just

continues to come out of his mouth day after day where he's trying to lie to the American people.

What we are pushing for right now is absolutely common sense in terms of just

our government back open with TSA and FEMA and so many other parts. But what we absolutely need

are what the American people are demanding. Real reforms when it comes to ICE if they were to get

any further funding. And again, they are armed up already. They suffered the reconciliation bill

that the Republicans ran through. And even just last night when I was debating at 2.30 in the

morning, you know, the Republicans actually put forward an amendment that was trying to fund ICE

for the next decade. They were asking for $100 billion last night. And again, is that really what

the American people want right now, especially after we saw the horrific chaos and the tragedies

in Minnesota? So this is really very clearly about Speaker Johnson looking out for his own job,

looking out for their political power in the House and trying to show relevance.

Remember, this is the Speaker of the House that refused to come back into session for

well over a month during the last shutdown. For him to now try to pretend like he cares about

federal workers is just really appalling. In terms of things are asking for hundreds of

billions of dollars for the other big funding requests is going to come down apparently as a

200 billion dollar funding requests on the Pentagon for the Warren Iran supplemental. Are you a

yes or a no on that? I'm a hard no here because I mean, this is something where very clearly,

again, the American people have been ignored. The idea that that Trump is considering putting

American service members on the ground in Iran when we see just all the tragedies that happen

whether it's the civilian casualties in Minab at the school, which by the way is a higher level

civilian casualty than any single event during the entirety of the Iraq or and Iran war Iraq and

Afghanistan wars. As well as just seeing that you know, continue service members in harm's way

and the administration refusing to hold public hearings in front of Congress to tell the American

people this is a very easy clear decision that we cannot fund this illegal and unconstitutional war.

Quickly to you. I know you work to both the Pentagon and the State Department on

on minimizing civilian harm. There's reporting that there's images in Iran that appear to show

landmines that have been I think dropped out of airplanes and scattered in a part of Iran. It's

possibly near the near the site of where missiles might be launched, but in essentially civilian

area. Do you think it's this is the first time in years that this has been deployed by the U.S.

Do you have concerns about that? Absolutely and it highlights why we need to have public hearings

to be able to understand what exactly we are doing whether it's these weapons that they are in fact

landmines that are Americans. It is the first time in years and there's a reason why we we don't

want to use these is because of the potential for civilian harm for not targeting precision with

military targets and it would be a huge step backwards. But again, this has been a pattern Chris,

a pattern that we've seen Secretary Hegseth, whether it's the boat strikes, whether it's the attack

on that school that killed over 160 people in Iran. As well as I pushed forward legislation

a couple years ago that started the civilian protection center at the Pentagon. This is something

that was trying to minimize civilian casualties as we saw in Iraq and Afghanistan. Now Secretary Hegseth

over the last year has gutted it, reduced the staff right down to the very bottom, has not been

pushing forward on the funding and look at what we're getting. This looks like a pattern of very clear,

not just neglect, but disregard by this Secretary of Defense when it comes to civilian casualties,

which is on us now that we own that as a country and that is something that he needs to be accountable for.

Senator Andy Kim and Jersey, thank you for your time tonight sir, ahead you know it's bad when

the crowd at CPAC is rooting for impeachment. Seriously, we'll play that for you next.

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How many of you would like to see impeachment hearings?

No, that was the wrong answer. We tried it yet. How many of you would like to see impeachment hearings?

No. Can someone bring some coffee out? That did not go as planned as a clip of CPAC today where

attendees seem to cheer for a Trump impeachment. Joining me now are Philip Bump, MSNOW contributor,

creator of the How to Read This Chart newsletter and Michelle Goldberg and opinion columnist for

the year times. Her latest pieces titled Republicans know this war is going badly right. I mean,

I thought that was a pretty remarkable moment at CPAC. You know, I thought it was a remarkable

moment and it gave me such deja vu because I remember being at CPAC, it must have been two or

three years into the Iraq war. And I had gone to CPAC throughout George W. Bush's administration.

It's hard to think for people to imagine now, but there really was a cult of George W. Bush,

not to the extent with Trump, but you would have these weird posters of kind of homoerotic like,

you know, muscle bound George W. Bush with his like, jock bulging.

And that was before AI, so someone actually had a draw on it. Yes, someone actually drew that.

And then one year, I was at CPAC and everyone, and I realized that I was talking to people left

and right who were furious with him or were just disenchanted and didn't want to talk about it.

And it was, you know, and I think now we all think of George W. Bush. He left office in disgrace.

He left office, I think he was like at 32%, which is not that far from where Donald Trump is now.

And so, yeah, I think it's really, you know, it's a, it's a harbinger and it's bizarre, you know,

history doesn't repeat, but it rhymes. I think one difference is that it took a couple of years

to get to that point in the Iraq war. And it's taken a couple of weeks to get to that.

Yes. And, you know, Trump keeps touting. In fact, he did it. Talk today where he stopped and

played a clip of Harriet and on CNN touting the fact that they did some pulling in which like

self-describe people who were MAGA or 100% support him, which is a little bit like being like

every single Cubs fan roots for the Chicago Cubs. Like, it's essentially total logical. I don't

think I even count his data, right? You define yourself out of the category. But he's like holding

onto that. And it's like, yes, it's true. Like the people that really, really love you are

diehard. But everything else is falling apart around the coalition. Yeah. I mean, I think the reason

he says that is first and foremost, obviously, to stroke his own ego, but secondarily to try and

convince Republicans, he is still as popular. That's right. Yes. I think the really important thing

to know about his poll numbers is, yes, they've declined. It's been more subtle, I think,

than probably a lot of people appreciate. But where I am really watching is the fact that Republicans

themselves say that they no longer strongly approve of him, but somewhat approve of him.

The most recent Fox News poll, which has his worst numbers yet, only 50% of Republicans strongly

approve of Donald Trump. And that's low. That's extremely low for Donald Trump. And what that

means is they're softness, right? There are Republicans who see what Trump is doing. And they're not

really as on board as they used to be. And that means they may be able to do people criticizing Trump

or going sideways on Trump, which Donald Trump very much wants to avoid. Yes. And of course,

into all this comes this weekend's No Kings protests. You've written a lot and reported through

the Trump years, Michelle, and sort of the resistance. And I've always been struck by kind of how

how large, earnest, and for lack of a better word, like normal, norm B, the formation of the kind of

anti-Trump political faction and tendency has been. And that's really on display at the No Kings

protests. Well, right. I mean, because it is essentially a display of kind of like Americans,

American civic nationalism of, you know, kind of a sort of patriotism that predated Donald Trump's,

you know, kind of aggressive chauvinism. And so, yeah. And I think, you know, the first couple of

No Kings marches were sort of meant to demonstrate that there was not even a silent majority,

but at least a silent, like plurality, you know. Yes, sizable minority. Right, that you had,

right after Donald Trump was elected, there was this attempt to make it seem that he had completely

captured the zeitgeist, right? And that opposition to him was, you know, hadn't just been defeated,

but had sort of scattered. And, you know, and yet you still had huge numbers of Americans who

have found, who found this intolerable. And it was a chance for them to kind of show not just

each other that they were out there and that people, and that you're not alone if you're horrified,

but what's happening. But also to rewrite some of the kind of extreme media narrative.

Now, at this point, I think that that narrative has broken. I don't think anybody thinks that Donald

Trump kind of stands a stride side. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, but, but also I think that this will be

people's first chance to demonstrate against the war. Right, because we haven't had big anti-war

demonstrations yet. I think that I personally, again, I keep saying this every night, I found the

weird casualness, distractedness, glibness of the whole way they've conducted the war soap is

our, you know, him, it's like he's looking at the tractor, he's going to Graceland. It's like,

they don't, they don't take it that seriously. It's serious for the people that are deployed,

it's serious for the people that the bombs are falling on. But this is an opportunity for people

to come out and be like, no, we don't want this war. Yeah, I mean, I think it's important to remember

to, the administration is able to be glib because it has been relatively casualty free on the American

side, which we are obviously all very thankful for. But if it is the case that they move troops into

Iran or into Carg Island or wherever they happen to go, and we start seeing casualties all the sudden,

that thing, that the relief into which that comes is much sharper than it is currently.

I do think though there's, there's an aspect to this. And when we talk about the way in which

people assume that Trump sort of had captured the Americans, I guess, you know, part of that is

that a lot of his support was driven by people who were sort of anti-all of it, who just hated

the establishment, hated the leaders and the elites. And it is still the case that those people are

more likely to be on the sidelines than to be in the streets in opposition. I think one of the

things that's going to be fascinating to see is as the opposition to Trump accelerates, which I

think it is accelerating, if those people who are sort of anti-engagement actually get engaged,

and I think tomorrow will be a test of that. Well, and I also think, look, I can't imagine

something more disastrous on every level. I mean, really mean this morally, strategically,

in terms of our U.S. service members and the politics of like a large ground invasion.

Explicitly for the purposes of securing oil and making sure oil is cheap, like U.S. service

members going into harm way for that purpose. Well, and also for saving face for Donald Trump,

right? So kind of for giving him some plausible way to claim to declare victory so he can leave.

Yes. And kind of, I mean, the whole thing is such utter madness that as I wrote in my

column, I think people are underestimating the possibility that it could happen just because it

seems so, so utterly ill advised, you know, so ludicrous. But the pieces are being put in place,

right? And when you look at kind of what he did in Venezuela, when you look at this war,

you can't think he's not really going to do this, right? But when, but, but he did, and I don't

think that anybody should sleep on the fact that he could do it here. That's my, I mean, I don't

know will happen that unfortunately is my expectation right now. I wish it weren't. So Philip Bump,

Shell Gerber, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Stay tuned because Jen Psaki sits down with Jane Fonda next.

Before we go tonight, a very special birthday to my now 12-year-old son, David, who's joining us

here in studio tonight to watch a show. He is already a gentleman in a scholar at a very young

age and also absolutely lethal from three-point range. Do not leave him open. That is all

in for this week. You can catch us every week night at eight o'clock on MS now. Don't forget to like

us on Facebook. That's facebook.com slash on with Chris. That does it for all in. You can catch us

every week night at eight o'clock on MS now. Don't forget to like us on Facebook. That's facebook.com slash

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