Tucker on the Devastating Cost of War and What It Means for American Politics With Saagar Enjeti

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So in just a second, we're going to talk to Saga and Jetty, who's one of the smartest

and most honest analysts of American politics, we think about the effect of the war in Iran

here in the U.S. on our politics, on our economy, on our life.

But first, just a couple of quick things, which is no matter what you think of this war,

you've got to be rooting for the United States, your country, and particularly for the people

fighting this war, it's a cliche to say, but it's true, they are the best people, this country

produces people who voluntarily joined to defend the United States, who are often put to bad

use and badly treated by our political class, but that doesn't make them bad, they are great,

and you've got to be rooting for them for us collectively and saying prayers, both for the

country and for the people fighting on its behalf and in its name, our troops, that is real.

The second thing concerns the show that we did two days ago about the efforts to rebuild

the third temple in Jerusalem, who went on at some length about this, and why at its core,

for some of the people fighting in this conflict in the United States and Israel and Iran,

this is a religious conflict, and that we should be aware of the effects of that long term,

religious conflicts are not typically resolved quickly, they can go on generationally,

they can go on a thousand years, in fact, they're still ongoing for over a thousand years in some

cases, so it's a big deal to have a religious war in some ways this may turn out to be a religious

war and others is just inherently a religious war, so you should know, and at the center of that

conflict is this thing called the third temple, which is not yet exist, but some people would

like to rebuild. So we did a whole show on this, seemed important and true, and in the course of

that show, we described patches that some soldiers in the Israeli military, the IDF, are wearing

that show an image of a temple, the third temple, and we asked, where did these come from?

And it seems like from accounts that we read from those soldiers online that they got these patches

somehow from a group called Habbad in the United States as a global group, but it's headquartered

here in New York and Brooklyn, and we said, and you can check the tape, it was like, Habbad,

they seem like really nice people, met a bunch of people in Habbad over the years, they do a bunch

of charitable enterprises, but apparently these patches came from Habbad in Habbad, check their

website is in favor of rebuilding the third temple, and why wouldn't they be? They're religious

Jews, and the temple is at the center of Judaism as described in the Torah, what Christians call the

Old Testament, and all sacrifices, all public worship takes place in the temple in Jerusalem built

on the foundation stone, and that's where God resides, according to Judaism, to Torah Judaism,

and all of that ended in 70 AD when the Romans, as predicted by Jesus, destroyed the temple. Now,

from a Christian perspective, God destroyed the temple, Jesus destroyed the temple, and became

himself the temple, he replaced the temple with his body, and he says this, I am the temple,

so that is the Christian view of the temple, but the Jewish view of the temple is very different,

and it's what I just described, which is this is where God lives, so if you're a religious Jew,

you want to see the temple rebuilt, and there's no criticism of that, that's a religious

perspective, which is internally coherent. Our only point was, you should know that this

happened, is happening, and that US taxpayers are paying for it, and apparently these patches

came from Habbad, that was the, that was the kind of some total of my observations about Habbad.

Well, the next morning, which is to say, yesterday, wake up, and there are all these attacks,

you know, Habbad, you're attacking Habbad, you're blaming Habbad for the war. No,

I didn't really pay too much attention to it, of course, these are organized by these attacks,

or part of a propaganda campaign, waged by Israel, and its proxies here in the United States,

who are many, at least online, and the idea was to make this seem like an attack on Habbad,

which it wasn't, and not intended to be, and wasn't, not inherently an attack, and then Bill

Ackman gets in and says, you have potentially blood on your hands, you're calling for violence,

and Bill Ackman is mad at me, I know Bill Ackman, because nothing to do with Israel,

because I once pointed out that Bill Ackman is a thoroughly mediocre intellect, Bill Ackman's

not a genius, and yet Bill Ackman has billions of dollars and like, how did that happen?

That's not the American dream I was told about, that people with very little talent become the

richest people in our country, how does that work? What American dream are you living? How did you

do that? Same with Jeffrey Epstein. Guys, like, not very bright, very obvious from his texts and

emails, but he wound up with a billion dollars in his own island. Where did the money come from?

How does this economic system work? Actually, can I get it on this? And I made that point about

Bill Ackman, because anyone who knows Bill Ackman knows, you know, not a genius, not like a moron

or anything, but clearly not a brilliant person at all, and yet he is so rich. So that's his grudge,

understandable. People don't like it when you point that out. No one's ever answered the question,

by the way, how did he get rich, but whatever. Anyway, he doesn't, he's mad. And so he accuses me of,

you know, stoking violence or something, and I just completely ignore it. But then I get two phone calls

from friends of mine, people I know and have known a long time, who are involved with Habad,

both good guys, and both have kids at Habad schools. And the first call says, you know, people

really upset that you're calling for violence against Habad. And I said, well, I'm not calling

for violence against anybody, including Habad. And I would never do that, ever. I totally reject that.

And so that didn't happen. And he said, well, it'd be very helpful if you would issue a statement

disavowing violence. And I said, well, gosh, I mean, done like 100 shows on that. I hope my

life is an ongoing disavowal of violence against innocence. And I will continue to say that,

because I sincerely mean it from the bottom of my heart. It's my religion. So yes, I mean it.

And then just to be kind of mean, I said, I will issue a statement disavowing violence against

innocence in tandem with Habad's statement disavowing violence against innocence.

Knowing, of course, Habad does not disavow violence against innocence. Of course,

Gaza. And they can't say, don't believe that. I think, you know, I would be surprised if Habad

issued a statement disavowing all violence against all innocence. And of course, if they do, I will,

you know, join them for dinner to celebrate because that will, and I will praise them for doing that.

And anyone who does that will get praise for me. Hart felt, but I doubt they're going to do that.

And then I get a call from another friend of mine, like an actual friend of mine saying,

you know what I mean to bother you, but I've got kids that, and they're closing the school,

because if your calls for violence, and I thought, oh my gosh, now you're, now I'm upset,

because I don't want to add at all, even inadvertently, to an environment where people are afraid

or feel like they're going to get hurt. And so I guess what I would say is, of course,

I'm totally opposed to violence against innocence again. But moreover, this is the product of

the war that is underway now and evidence of the point that this is fundamentally a religious war

whose effects are already being felt here, which is to say, groups are in fear of other groups.

American groups are in fear of each other. And that is just absolutely a tragedy.

And we should all oppose that. And at the center of it are the most innocent of all,

which are kids who are being told by adults that they could be killed for who they are.

Now think about that for a second. Think about a PR campaign or a propaganda campaign

designed to make people terrified for their lives, which is what the Israeli campaign is.

Telling Americans that they could be killed. The anti-Semitism in the United States is so terrible

being ginned up by people like me and other people online that they could be killed. Imagine

that's not true at all. But imagine being so unscrupulous that you would terrify kids

in order to silence criticism of your territorial expansion campaign, which is exactly what this

is. Israel wants to be bigger. They want their regional rivals out of the way. They want to weaken

the United States. Get us out of them at least and they want to weaken Western Europe, which they

just hate on for whatever reason. They truly hate Western Europe, which is one of the reasons

the Israeli government has helped to move migrants into Europe to weaken and destroy it. What is that?

I don't really know the answer, but it's it's demonstrable. They hate Western Europe.

And so whatever their bizarre agenda is in order to stop criticism of it,

they're telling Americans, including children, that they could be killed to get them on side with

their program. That is super dark. That is evil, completely evil. And imagine more over playing

along with it with your own kids, telling your own kids that people hate them and will always hate

them no matter what they do because of how they were born. That is not good for kids. And I say that

not just as an American, but as a father of many kids. That's the worst thing you could ever do to

children who's doing that. A lot of people are doing that. And it doesn't produce happy people.

It produces unbalanced people like Mark Levin, whose mother clearly told him that.

That is not a fair description of the country we live in. We live in a still now for all its

flaws, a very decent country, where people accept each other's differences. And there is an organized

campaign underway this moment to foment religious hatred in this country, hatred of American for

American on the basis of religious identity. And that is totally wrong morally. But more than that,

it's completely destructive. If you want to wreck the United States and some people do want to

wreck the United States, weaken the United States. People behind this war want to do that. Again,

that's one of the reasons we're having this war is to weaken the United States, both economically

and destroy its social cohesion. You would do that. And that's why they are doing that. And so

I would just hope that all Americans can resist that deal with each other as individuals,

as fellow Americans, as citizens. And whatever you do leave the kids out of it. Don't use kids

for your political ends. That is totally wrong. And the rest of us should call it out when we see it.

So I hope everyone connected to a bond understands that the last thing I would ever do

is call for violence against them because they're part of a religious group. No.

That's the opposite of what I'm saying. And so with that, our friend, Sagar and Jenny.

Sagar, thank you very much for doing this. I've been thinking of you all week. Let's start just

with the overview. What have you learned since this war began? Well, the Tucker, unfortunately,

and I'm very sad to say this is that our very sovereignty is in question right now. The Secretary

of State made perhaps one of the most remarkable statements of my entire life and perhaps in modern

history when he declared unequivocally that we are involved in this war as a result of either

inability or the adherence to an Israeli strike that was going to happen on Tehran. This reveals

a lot of different things about our government, our structure. We were either unable to exert

pressure on Israel to avoid such a war. We either act, we ask to it. And both are terrifying in

their result because we are, of course, the global superpower in Israel is a client state. I've

also learned very unfortunately, having spent my entire career trying to repudiate the lessons

of the Iraq War of Syria and of Libya of an overwhelming propaganda effort on both sides, both

parties, the mainstream media, but still unfortunately very alive and well. It seems in the Republican

party and in the White House, cheering on regime change demands of unconditional surrender made

to the Iranians just this morning, the endorsement of a Kurdish civil war campaign. It really does

feel as if things are accelerating even with the perspectives in modern history of literally 5, 10,

even 15 years ago to learn that these are exactly the moves that we should not be making. And so

I'm really terrified right now to be saying that our sovereignty itself remains in question at the

best here of Israel, our very own government, which seems complicit and is of course involved in

these very strikes and then watching the way that this is all going. And I do not see a single way

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I unfortunately didn't agree with that, and you could feel it in the days leading up to it.

I saw Trump three times in the month before, and it was obvious to me that he didn't want to do it.

It was, I think, obvious in every TV appearance that he made. He was never made the case that

this was going to help us in any way. He did make the case that Iran shouldn't have the bomb

got it. It was never about that, of course. I don't think he wanted a nuclear. I'm

Iran. I don't think he likes Iran. I think he's been told they tried to kill him. I think that's

all real. But he understood the risks, and it was obvious to me from talking to him that he

didn't want to do this, but that he kind of couldn't get out of it. And the American president

just has less room to maneuver than voters imagine he does. And it's just a it's a horrible burden

on every, on every president since John F. Kennedy. You can, you can feel it. And I think we

shall go back and look at the tapes at pivotal moments. And like these guys just don't have the

latitude they thought they did. And they're bumping up against removable objects and pressure that

just can't be resisted. Well, it's tragic. If that's the case, I will say, I mean, we can't give,

we we can't take away the individual action of our commander in chief and of the people

who are in power. And let's be honest here, Tucker, promises were made. You and I sat in many

rooms over the years where we were explicitly told that this is the one thing that we are going

to avoid war with Iran. And I do want to make very clear that it is not just about war with Iran.

This is a regime change war with Iran. This is a regional war with Iran, which is now engulfed

our Gulf allies. This is now a war which is depleting our interceptor stockpile calling in the

very alliance structure of the United States. We are potentially pulling interceptors away from

South Korea, which we of course do 400% more trade with with then Israel. I mean, take the combined

GCC bilateral trade, the Gulf Arab nations with the United States compared to Israel. And you have

Gulf officials who are furious going on national television saying that they are being deprioritized.

They're very ministers at this moment. You and I are speaking are talking about withdrawing

their economic investments in our companies trillions of dollars at stake. And all of that belies

the very people who I think he talked about the American soldier. And I've been thinking all

week about Declan Cody, he was 20 years old and he perished in that attack on our base in Kuwait.

He was born four to five years after 9-11. I'm literally in this business to try and to make sure

to admit that that something like that doesn't happen. It breaks me to watch somebody who is just

that young who had their entire life ahead of them perish in another Middle Eastern war, not to

mention, including one of the servicemen was a mother of children. She had, you know, had hobbies.

She had a husband. And I have to say, you know, you know, I cannot let our individual leaders

off the hook here. Secretary Hegseth recently made a statement at the Pentagon podium where he

said and chastised the national media for not celebrating more of the, quote, wins that we're

happening in Iran and spending too much time on the dead American soldiers trying to highlight that

as if it's some sort of political prop. And part of the reason I'm here today and part of the reason

I do my show every day is just to say it's not 2003. I will not be blackmailed, silenced or told

that we cannot mourn our dead, that we cannot support our troops without supporting the war.

This is over. We are absolutely declaring an end to this. I thought, I think you thought

many others thought that this was an end whenever it came to the Trump election in 2024.

And it is a tragic actually to have to be able to sit here and talk to you about the situation

today. I mean, the vote for Trump, which I cast and I try not to, I don't vote that much to be

totally honest. You never have because I'm always traveling. But I voted absentee for Trump

and was happy to do it. And I think a lot of people who don't normally vote did the same.

And they did it in part as a vote for sovereignty. That's what that's the debate is, does the United

States have a right to make decisions in its own interest in the interests of its own people?

Does your vote actually matter? Are you voting for BB every time whether you want to or not? Are

you actually voting for an American who might help your country? And I think we kind of answer

that question. If Trump isn't going to save us from a system that kind of hates us, then what's

the option? Right. And you look, I mean, I'm pleading. I know that many people in the administration

are going to listen. So let me just lay out the case already of the damage that has been

brought on the United States. Our alliance structure in the Gulf Arab nations is in question. We have

multiple bases, which have been hit. These are allies, which pump billions of dollars into our

economy. Their very lifeblood is at threat right now. Force measure being declared Qatar, LNG

production has significantly declined. The very morning that you and I are taping this, we just

got a very troubling jobs report, 92,000 losses in the economy. We actually saw unemployment take

up for native born Americans. That is the very opposite of what Donald Trump wanted on the campaign

trail. An oil analyst that I deeply respect. I spoke to him this morning. If the streets of

poor moves remain closed, he projects oil at $200 per barrel. This is a disaster, a full

fledged disaster. The very day you and I are speaking again, gas prices are at the highest price

and Donald Trump's entire presidency now so far. So you can see very clearly for the individual

pocketbooks of every American, they will feel the result of this war. And then geopolitically,

when you say sovereignty, what is that about? Sovereignty, the questioning of NATO, which Trump and

many of his officials talked about. It's not about subsuming our national interest in trans-national

organizations. But even then we are watching. If you care so much about NATO, I've been trying to

make this point to the Neocons. The Ukrainians are already noticing that many of the weapons systems

which would be needed to defend them if they wanted to continue this war are going to be depleted.

And they're not very high on the priority list. I talked about South Korea, about Japan,

about our actual economic commits to real allies, by the way, people who we do a lot of trade with,

who love us and we love them. Watch how we are abandoning them. If you care about China and

trying to project power in the South China city, interceptor stockpile that we are using right now

is a joke compared to what some potential conflict with Taiwan would look like. We're already

slowly removing many of those options off the table. We are not stronger as a result of this action.

And I do not see an off ramp currently floated by the president of the United States, who is now

declaring unconditional surrender. Tucker, you and I, we bonded often over history. Let's remember

unconditional surrender and what it takes. It takes the bloody urban conflict and invasion of Europe

and the battle of Berlin. It takes dropping atomic bombs in Japan, floating hundreds of

thousands of American casualties. If we needed to invade Japan to occupy and demand that very policy.

It takes the Ulysses S grant, who is willing to sacrifice literally hundreds of thousands

of casualties for an entire year long period to get to that point. That's what unconditional

surrender means. And that is what the president has been demanding. And I want every American to

realize that unconditional surrender. That is the true demand. And it is now said president Trump said

make Iran great again this morning. That is an only be enforced with a ocean of American blood. And

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Unconditional surrender means foreign troops get to rape your wife and daughter if they want.

And everyone knows that and that has been, if there's one consistent lesson of history, means

unconditional surrender means foreign troops get to rape your wife and daughter.

Everyone can feel that. That's like the most out of a stick instinct there is. And so to avoid that,

people will do anything. And so that's why it requires that level of force to get a population

subdued to the point of unconditional surrender. That's why. And so in this case, of course,

we don't have the ground force necessary. I don't think Americans would voluntarily participate

in it. I don't think we can do that. It would require weapons of mass destruction. It would

require presumably nuclear weapons in order to do that. And let's stop. Well, it's not light of

ourselves. We're moving toward that. Yes. And that is another important point that I think you have

been highlighting here is if you look at the decision matrix where everything is about upping the

anti a good friend of mine actually pointed out many of the Vietnam aspects that were already

starting to climb. So you watch very quickly. We thought we could just decapitate the Iatola

and they would crawl over and make a deal. It didn't happen. So then what happens? We have to

start bombing the police stations, the border guards to be able to make sure that these Kurdish

CIA back groups can make an incursion that they can start their civil war in part of the country

distract the security force at every step when the Iranians reject an American overture. The natural

choice of the American president will be escalation and bombing already. I mean,

watching statements coming out of the Pentagon, it's shocking. It's like military assistance command

Tehran. They're bragging. I mean, Tucker, as again, as an American who really was radicalized by

the Iraq war to see the chairman of the joint chairman of the joint sheets of staff about how we've

already dropped double the munitions of shock and awe. I actually felt like I was going insane

because we've not learned nothing already. They're talking about we've struck 2,000 different

targets across the country. Look, you don't have to believe me. Go and look at footage from the ground.

It doesn't look like civil war is erupted civil society or any of that. The Iranian regime remains

relatively in power as of right now. And so when you again, up the anti, which President Trump did

with his demand for unconditional surrender, remember they told us it was just about nuclear weapons

than it was about ballistic missiles. Then it was about projecting terrorism or something in the

region, which is, you know, nebulous and undefinable designed for that reason, by the way, so that we

would have to be able to go to war. Well, then we now get to unconditional surrender, which is

only enforceable with massive weapons, nuclear weapons in this case. And now we have team nuclear

on powers, Israel and the United States, which are engaged in this conflict. And the Israeli part of

this equation is really important. America actually does have an interest in a stable Iran because of

the Straits of Hormuz, which by the way, our empire is now having to ensure oil tankers moving

through the Straits of Hormuz and potentially put all of our navy sailors at risk to escort ships

through. Doesn't even make any sense. Did you know that almost 80% of the oil moving through

the Straits of Hormuz goes to Asia? 50% of it goes to China. So we're ensuring it paying for Chinese oil

for the Straits of Hormuz. But Israel doesn't care about any of that. There's even a quote from an

Israeli analyst in the financial times who said, look, if they change the regime, great, if they have

a civil war, great, if anything happens, great. As long as they can no longer pose a regional threat

to the nation of Israel, then the Israelis are happy. We don't have divergent interests actually

in what happens in the country of Iran, but this president has fused them with Bibi Netanyahu.

And by doing that, he has sold us truly into Pandora's box. And now even extricating from this

situation, if the president just declared victory today, which by the way, Mr. President, please do so.

It will be the best thing, smartest decision that you have ever made in your entire presidency.

Unfortunately, I don't think that's going to happen. Even if he did, think about all the fundamental

questions of US alliances that were already in the minds of these Gulf leaders of Japan,

of South Korea, of Taiwan, any potential US ally around the globe. Hundreds of billions have already

basically been put to the test. The war is costing internal Pentagon projection, one billion dollars

per day every single time that this goes on. And extraordinary measures are already being taken.

I just read this morning, the Russians are providing intelligence to the Iranians to help them target

US bases, not like we can complain. Can we? That's how the Pentagon runs the entire Ukraine war

as we learn from the discord leaks. We do their battle damage assessments, we give them the

coordinates and we tell them exactly where to shoot. So we are entangled in a deep conflict,

which has immense risk for the global energy markets, for our own soldiers, for the region.

We've talked also about sovereignty. Let's talk about the refugee crisis. My favorite question

that you told us Ted Cruz, he didn't even know the population of Iran, 92 million, by the way,

92 million, one third almost the size of the United States of America destabilize a country,

which if we give them the Gaza treatment, which again, looks currently potentially likely,

and especially when the Israelis are involved, what does that mean? Mass emissoration,

mass refugee flows all across Middle East, across Europe. Turkey is already, I mean, you have

Naftali Bennett, the former Israeli Prime Minister already saying, oh, actually, Turkey is already

now a threat to Israel. A friend of mine predicted the dissolution of NATO will not come from America.

It will come from an Israeli action on Turkey. And I hate to say it. It looks even more likely

today. Turkey again, actually a good ally. We have a good base there. We have a decades-long

relationship. All of that apparently is being thrown out as long as it's an Israel's national

security interests. So if you game this out a little bit, what that means, because countries

under threat flee to safety, just like people do, if our allies in the Gulf, which are real allies,

actually, like we get, as you just said, we get massive benefit from our alliances with these

countries. But if they feel unprotected by the United States, and it seems like they do,

because they are, they're going to go somewhere else that it's same for Turkey. So I'm not for

NATO because I don't think it's fully under US control. On the other hand, the option is

powerful states, emerging states like Turkey, which is not getting less powerful with time,

will align with the bricks. Of course. And so- Absolutely.

So the net effect of this is to weaken the United States to get us to pull out of the

Middle East, which Israel wants, and to weaken the Gulf states, and to destroy Europe, which

hates, for some reason, has always hated Europe. So I mean, maybe there are obvious reasons.

I don't know, but they, they have abetted the decline of Europe very aggressively. Now you're seeing

Iranian refugees massing in France to cross the English channels this morning to Great Britain.

So it's already happening. The migrant flow is already going into Europe. Like, tell me that

wasn't the point from the start. Of course it was. Exactly. And this is this, and this is why I find

it so galling to actually have this administration be the ones perpetuating this policy. We understood

that the global effects of this refugee crisis inspired, you know, things like Brexit,

things like declarations of sovereignty, the Donald Trump election in 2016. This was genuinely

a rejection of that. And then to watch the Syria Libya playbook currently being played out,

I mean, you know, unfortunately I find many people know Syria and Libya were a disaster, but they

can't are eventually explain why. So let's take some time. What was it? There was a so-called

protest, you know, against Bashar al-Assad, that protest movement quickly became subsumed by radical

jihadists. The United States, for no reason, basically decided that it was in our interest to

remove Bashar al-Assad, massively fund all of these jihadists in the region. We gave them weapons,

we gave them time, money, support, of course. And what happened? It created a gigantic civil war,

as you always talk about, it destroyed the Christian community, some of the less radical elements

of that society. And now 14 years later, a literal al-Qaeda terrorist is their president.

The only reason that we don't talk about him that way is because he's a friend of Israel and

allowed portions of his country to basically ban annex by them. That's what the Israelis want. They

want and they had no problem with seeing in a rump state emerge in Iran. But that's not in our

interests. That's not in Europe's interests. That's not in our allies. Interest is massively

destabilizing. Same in Libya. What was the promise? No fly zone for Qaddafi. He,

unfortunately, can literally get sotomized on national television, on a video which, you know,

deeply inspired Kim Jong-un and many other regimes that wanted to race to a nuclear weapon.

I've been told directly that whenever we ask the United States, or when we ask in those bilateral

meetings with Kim Jong-un, we said, why don't you just give up your nuclear weapons? He said,

look what happened to Qaddafi. He's never going to do it. And he shouldn't. In fact, his entire

policy has been vindicated. So that's another element of this. Let's think about nuclear

proliferation. Since the outbreak of the Iran War, Poland has now declared their intent to try

to become a nuclear power, a nuclear arms state. France said they are going to increase the amount

of nuclear weapons that they have under production and they are no longer going to publicize them.

South Korea and Japan are going to be having some very serious discussions around this. So in

an ostensible war over a nuclear program, we've actually probably inspired more nuclear

proliferation than even the war in Iraq, which I did not think was ever possible. So to watch this

all continue in this spiral, none of it works to our benefit. And you and I are not NATO defenders,

you know, we've talked often about, we talked often about the folly of expanding NATO eastward.

However, we can recognize we have fundamental interests in a few select group countries.

The problem with NATO is it got far away from our core security interests. But now countries

in the core security umbrella themselves are questioning their fundamental relationship with

the United States. You know, the Eastern Baltic region is not one that keeps me up at night.

But Japan, South Korea, you know, Japan and South Korea, the GCC countries, which look, you know,

I'm not saying we need a massive basis or any of that in the region. But we need oil. We need

natural gas to keep flowing nicely. We need some of that money to be coming back here. And that's

obviously very beneficial to our companies. Those things being called into question, it

erodes the foundation of the American empire, which actually does serve the United States. So what

we're watching is like the far flung parts, which always break an empire's back. Actually, call

into question, the security core commitments are national security commitments at a very base

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Tucker for 20% off. I notice it in the middle of all this chaos. Well, there are a lot of things I

don't notice because chaos is in part used to and it always is a cover for all kinds of other

things that you don't find out for like three years later. You know, like two days after 9-11,

something dramatic happened. You never heard about it. Right? So bad people become more powerful

in chaos and they do bad things and you don't even notice. But one of the bad things that's

happening is Israel is taking over Southern Lebanon and, you know, more aggressively oppressing

the West Bank and making moves in Syria. How can Israel spare the military capacity, the men's

and armament in the middle of this massive war with Iran to take over Southern Lebanon and

why are we allowing that? Yeah, that's a great question. Who do you think sells them the weapons

and staffs their intelligence and basically supports their entire nation's state and military?

It's us and that's the reason they could never have struck Tehran like this on their own.

By their own admission, that's why they always needed the United States. I mean, BB for once

said the most honest thing of his entire life. It's been my dream to go after Iran for 40 years.

40 years, it's been a dream and so called you have Republican senators on our national television

with no shame saying that Iran has been an imminent threat to the United States for 40 years.

I think they need to go back to school and read the definition of imminent. But at the very least,

this propaganda is completely unchecked by our press. It is just accepted. It is currently

the party line. But let's get to it. You know, what you just talked about there with Lebanon.

Again, if you don't read the Israeli press, which in some cases actually more honest than our

own press ironically, there is a quote where they say that Israeli minister said we will turn

Dahia into Gaza. That's basically what he said. We are going to take an area of Beirut and we

are going to level it to the ground. That's what he said. That is an open admission from the Israeli

ministers. What you can see already with the belligerence in all of these different countries

from the strikes in Doha to Syria now to Lebanon is this is about regional hegemony for the

state of Israel. I also think that their political popularity dramatically declining in the United

States at this time makes it more existential for them than ever. They know that this is literally

their last chance to knock off any individual power which dares try to either host different

types of groups or have a government which may check them in some way. And that's part of why our

president's decision to join them is so disappointing because you can see very clearly. And no,

I think you say this I often do too. I get it from Israel's perspective, but I'm not Israeli,

but I'm not Israeli. My job, our job is to look out for our country. And so to see the vast

armaments of the United States of America effectively pop up Israeli regional hegemony at the

direct expense of our own power projection is shocking. So watch very closely what's going to

happen with Lebanon. You're going to see the mass expansion very likely because of Hasbolo rockets

and ballistic missiles, which have been shot into Israel. That will be the pretext for a full scale,

you know, reduct basically reduction campaign. That's what they like to call it. You're going to see

very similar actions right now in Gaza and in the West Bank. Don't forget, I know you haven't

seen this or I know you've seen this. And American citizen was killed in the West Bank very, very

recently, not that anybody in America cares at all. He's from Philadelphia, by the way,

and his own senator won't even stand up for him. Senator John Fetterman, a Democrat just to show

you some of the bipartisanship of this nature. That's why it's sickening to watch. I mean,

that we've described this before as not a healthy relationship. We're so far beyond that. We need

to wake up and we need to reclaim our sovereignty right now. And this has nothing to do with anti-semitism

I mean, I just laid out that very strategic case for why individually this is going to hurt you

in the meat in the short term and your pocketbook in the long term from our geopolitical allies

or strategic situation in the region and then across the globe. If you care about China chips,

anything, really, you're watching the degradation of our ability to project force. And that is not

only shocking, but it is a urgent crisis, which unfortunately again, you are not going to hear much

of this from our mainstream media networks, which are just cheering on this war, bringing on,

you know, Iranian diaspora. Tucker, a friend of mine made this joke. He said, America's the only

country in the world where immigrants come here to try and get us to bomb their home country and

their family. Can you? What's the sickness of that relationship? I think you know this as well.

I'll say it, you know, I'm technically part of the Indian diaspora. My parents are from there.

I'm from Brian, Texas. Never ask me what's going on in India. Please, I don't know anything.

I'm not from there. I don't know anything about it. I barely know what's going on in my own

home country. You know, it actually would be disgraceful for me to trying to speak on behalf of them,

let them speak for themselves. And I can't get over watching. I mean, the BBC recently had a

package where they had on three individuals, Iranian, who were celebrating the bombing of their

home country. And my friend, Treetoparsi was like, I'm sorry, this is sickening. Like, look,

maybe that's one perspective, but that's not the only perspective. In fact, it might be a minority

perspective from what we see currently, what's happening on the ground in the country. So

let's not deny the people of Iran, their agency, since allegedly we're supposed to care about that

and their protest movements. Let's recognize this is a highly heterogeneous, the massive heterogeneous

country with a lot of disparate types of opinions. And we can look to history to say that when we

demand unconditional surrender, again, I'm sure you've seen the literature on this. What did the

unconditional surrender man's do? Demand do to the German populace, even when the Nazi party was

massively underwater in terms of popularity. They said we had no choice. We must fight to the death.

Of course, that's what they declared the Japanese. I mean, there was a lot of consternation in their

society about the way that the war was going. Once you fire bomb Tokyo and you kill 100,000 people,

in a single night, and you say that unconditional surrender and the removal of your emperor is the

only thing that we're going to accept. Well, a lot more of those people died over the next several

months. And so we're probably going to watch that happen now with Iran. It's the same dynamic that

always plays out. And the point, of course, is to build Israeli empire to replace American empire,

which is dying hastened by this war with Israeli empire. And one thing I notice I can't contain

myself and have to express it. But when you say that the Israelis are destroying Beirut,

which is having been to a lot of places in the world, one of the prettiest places on the globe,

Beirut is just a marvel. It's beautiful. It reminds me, and being destroyed by Israel,

which is one of the single ugliest countries in the world. Nothing of beauty has been built there

since 1948. Sorry. I've been everywhere in that country. And it's true that the nature of this

emerging empire is destructive. And it always seems like beautiful things wind up being destroyed.

Europe, right? Beirut, parts of Syria, the holy sites. I don't, parts of Iran are apparently

beautiful, totally blown up. This does seem like a war on beauty as well, which next to truth is like

this is not an American perspective, but it's a Christian perspective and a real perspective.

It's a global perspective. Beauty is worth preserving. And yet it seems the determined effort of

the IDF to destroy beauty. And I just want to say that because I really notice it.

Well, I mean, we watched some of that in Gaza and you don't have to be a Hamas lover to recognize

the beauty of some of those churches or of your society of the West Bank, which I'm sure that you

have seen as well. And yeah, I've been and spent a lot of my life in a large portion of this

region. I mean, I'm watching my former neighborhood in Doha, Qatar with missiles flying down.

And by the way, I think it was exactly a mile from where I used to live when I was in high

school in Doha, Qatar, that the Israelis actually struck that Hamas compound and actually even killed

a Qatar police officer. I can't imagine what some of my, you know, look, this could have been me.

You know, once upon a time, I was in a classmate at the American School of Doha. It's March. So

it's just school time. There are children, American children, by the way, you know, children of

executives, others, I was my children, childhood professors of many American universities,

which operate there, who are now in a panic mode trying to get out of the country as their

airports are shut down. There are a million plus Americans who live in the region. And it has been

very short. The evacuation notices that went out. They clearly were not planning for this.

And actually, that's a major indictment of our current force projection as well. It's pretty clear

and Donald Trump said this. He said we were surprised by the attacks on the bases, which is

shocking because I think you knew that was going to happen. Of course, I knew that was going to

happen. You only need to read open source and read a little bit of what the Iranians themselves

were saying. They were like, Hey, here's the plan. If this happens, this is what we're going to do.

And he said that they were surprised by that. And now a million Americans are stuck. It

asked for Mike Huckabee, but by the way, supposedly cares so much about Americans. I saw his guidance

for Americans in Israel trying to get out. He was like, take a bus to the Sinai. And hopefully you

can catch a flight from there. That's insane. It's like a five or six hour bus ride, which they're not

even really arranging and that they would take to the Sinai Peninsula. And then I even read a

story, a pregnant woman who had to did all of that. You know, imagine the stress of all, while this

is happening, it take five, six flights to be able to come home. These are our people. These are

the people that we're supposed to care about. And so it's just so tragic. You know, think you're

talking about, well, and beauty, what you're trying to recognize and paint for a picture.

Not everybody is as privileged as us to be able to go all across the world is to say these are not,

you know, evil incarnate, gray, black, white photos. These are real places with real people.

They have different opinions. Some of them hate us. Some of them love us. They have very

disparate histories and identities, religions. They're beautiful. In the same way that all,

all humans are really beautiful in all places that we can find something to appreciate about them.

And so I think that's what's tragic. Things are on the world are moving so fast right now.

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I was thinking this morning, kind of the last gift of the boomers, wars that are planned by

that same generation, which really did diminish the United States in the space of just 50 years.

I mean, they really took so much and gave so little. I think this is the kind of war you could

only have between people of advanced age. I was thinking that.

I totally agree with you. And let's even take some of the talking points.

You're older than me. So this might resonate with you. But everybody says this has been

happening for 47 years. Remember 1979. I'm 33 years old. My mother was 15 in 1979.

Okay. So 1979 to me is a history book. Yeah.

79 is Argo the movie. That's about as close as I've gotten to the Iranian revolution.

I'm much closer to the destruction of my country at the hands of the Neocons of Iraq and Afghanistan.

I watched my cohort being unable to buy houses. I watch relative people who are younger,

who are terrified of AI. I have friends who are having their electricity bills go up

as a result of data centers. I've watched my own city, you know,

Washington, DC, which even I've spent a lot of time and go down hill every single year

that I've lived in it, which is shocking, right? And to watch literally that happen. And then

meanwhile, I get on planes and I go visit Tokyo or Doha or Singapore or Bangalore.

Any of these places, which had a lot of problems and still do, but have gotten a lot nicer,

whereas where I'm living continues to tick down. So 1979, I can appreciate as an American,

especially for a lot of the boomers, I get it. It must have been so horrible and shocking.

And you know, to be fair, I also think that the way the media covered that at the time,

they acted like the revolution just happened out of nowhere. They don't have enough of the know how

to go back to Mosudek and the political revolution and the CIA and much of the meddling that we also did

in that country, not to mention the disaster of Jimmy Carter. But I empathize with them for their

hatred, let's say, of Iran and their knowledge or, you know, or looking at it as an enemy. But I would

also ask them to give us the same empathy is to look at us in a country that we've grown up in.

And they're now raising children in my case and are saying, I am looking at Iran as an explicit,

not only distraction, but coming directly at the expense of a lot of the problems,

which I care a lot about on behalf of my family, on behalf of the people who are around me.

And for them, I don't see any benefit for this.

Well, that's for sure. So now I want to ask you about the effect on American politics. I mean,

it feels like in the last week, you know, well, as you said, the Secretary of State said something

out loud that the day before would have been denounced as an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory,

Israel made us do it. He said that. And it's true. I can verify that. That's true.

And now everyone's seen it. And so like, where do we go that the kidnappers pulled off his

mask? So what does that mean? Now that we know we're not going back from here. We are not going

back. That's for Republicans are in a tough spot. So let's look at the evolution of just the

Democratic Party in the last 48, 72 hours. I'm watching Ruben Gaiego, Mark Warner, who is like a

national security Democrat, whatever that means who are like, wow, yeah. Literally, right?

Like as you and I know, and he's talking about how we're, you know, the dog, the tail is wagging

the dog. And we can't be acting on behalf of Israel. Gavin Newsom, the governor of California,

who months ago twisted himself into a knot to avoid saying a word apac and couldn't even talk

about their influence on politics, just said he understands why people would call Israel in a

apartheid state and how we may have to question our relationship with that country. So that,

the dam has broken on the Democratic side. Can I ask you to pause? What are the, I've watched all

of this with my jaw open. What are the chances Gavin Newsom called the ADL and apac first before

he said that and said, hey, guys, I just want to give you a heads up.

Yeah, I mean, I'm nearly performatively attack you. Almost certainly 100%. But the attack

still matters. And right, even ADL or apac would even allow that to happen if that were the case

is still shocking. I mean, even apac has made changes in a lot of their funding where they're

allowing funding to go to some Democrats, even who are at least on the surface level who are

opposed to them. But if that's the overtoned window that we all now live in as a country,

we can literally never go back to even the 2024 status quo. Yes. But this is where the Republican

party is very, I look, I think they're in a very tough spot. Imagine the amount of messaging.

Let's say that someone to start to come out about how Trump doesn't care about your gas. I mean,

it's not messaging is literally true. The president said, basically, you know, high prices

is so be it. And even in terms of dead Americans, I said something along the lines of,

you know, it happens. There are casualties in war. These comments are going to be wall to wall.

I remember 06 vividly. It was actually the first election, which I really paid very close

attention to and live through. I'm sure you do as well. Just remember how the Democrats destroyed

the George W Bush party. And then let's look at the structural problems that we already have.

We have the economic problems I already mentioned, the bad jobs report as of this morning potential

high gas prices just like back in the mid 2000s. You're going and then you have people senators

like Ted Cruz on your show, Mike Huckabee, members of our government who are talking about the third

temple. I mean, that's insane. You're like, you're talking about third temple and red heifers.

I'm out here trying to pay my bills, man. And then you can just watch how this is going to erode

the entire Republican party, especially whenever it comes to turnout. Now, but I do also want to be

clear. And you live through this as well. The Bush, I grew up in Bush country. The Bush dead

enders, they stuck with them with 5,000 American troops. So there are a lot of Republicans who will

stick with President Trump throughout this war. They revere and they trust him. And that's

their right. They can do so. But here's what I always try to say. Republicans are not the reason

the Donald Trump won the 2024 election. He won with a wide coalition of young people, of Latino

voters, of a lot of independence. And those people, I can attest to you this 100% because a lot of

them are watching this show, my show all the time. They have turned on this president. They are

furious about not just this war with Iran, but a lot of different things up to this point. And

at this point, I mean, we are going into a territory where it's not just about the war with Iran.

It's about how many clips I've played some of them on my own show of members of this cabinet,

members of this administration who spoke explicitly about why war with Iran is not in our interest.

And it's one of those things that's like the Epstein files. What people see inside of them is when

you cover that up, I can't trust you about anything else. And same with war and peace. I mean,

we're literally playing with people's lives. And you've spoken very eloquently about the reason

Washington loves this is because they believe that they are God is that the power of God for

life and death in upon them makes them feel bigger from whatever sad life, you know, that they

came from and they've been subsumed by that now with power. And they are going to get a rude

reminder of what that looks like in the midterm elections. If things go in if things don't go in a

radically different, like a radically different direction watching that play out in Texas or watching

that play out all across the country with Democratic turnout. And look, you know, even in a self-interceptive

perspective for a lot of these Trump officials, you know, if you don't want millions of dollars in

legal bills and house subpoenas for the rest of your life, the rest of your natural life,

let me be clear. You might want to be start to do something very different than what you're doing

right now. So as I said, I flipped to DC three times in the last month to try to convince Trump not

to do this. It didn't work. It happens. I'm looking at this and I'm thinking, boy, this is not going

to get better. So then I think I'll fly up again and ask him, I mean, I don't know if anyone else

is doing so I'm going to try to just declare victory and go home. Like you killed an 86 year old

cleric. Let's just call that a win and then pull back. And so then mean time he got convinced to

denounce me. Okay. I don't care. I'm going to fly up anyway and see him, right? Even though he's

like denouncing me. So I call over there to see, you know, call someone who knows him. I've said,

I'm just going to fly up anyway and telling this because I think it's so important. And the person

says, don't bother because he's being shown polling that this war is like a 910 win for him.

And I said, I don't know where that polling is coming from. It's like, you know, I guess you

could make any kind of poll. And it's he's watching Fox News, which is telling him the same thing.

And he's getting fake polling. I guess they're only polling Sean handy's viewers or something.

And so I don't not sure that there's a sense as if this was yesterday because I was getting so

agitated and worried. I don't think that there's a sense that this is unpopular. I think there's

an information vacuum here. There's an asset of information vacuum. And you know, for the president

and the administration who declared a victory based on internet and vibes and podcasts,

let's take a survey, shall we? Of every podcast that he appeared on. And how do they feel about

the Iran conflict? You can, you can look very clearly for yourself. You can look at a lot of the

polling of that same demographic, which they were very excited about. Young men in particular,

how are they feeling about this conflict? And you know, if you were saying 910, it's not even true

in the Republican sense. I mean, the latest one that I saw was like 72% Republicans, which by the way,

Mr. President and everybody in the administration, Bush had 93 for Iraq. And how did that turn out for

right? So let's not put, you know, put all of our eggs in the basket of just because Republican

voters are here that this is all going to be like sunshine and roses. And I also would not make

the spurious claim that it's all about Iran. It's about compounding effects. The gas price effect

of the Iran conflict is going to be dramatically more important to the White House's political

chances in the midterms than anything that's actually happening on the ground. I don't think it

should be that way, but that's reality. And I do think also, you know, your inclinations to get

into trying to clear victory, that's the correct move from a strategic perspective and economic

perspective. From every political perspective, you don't want the entire country's national

discourse focus on Iran. I'll give you a good example. Just yesterday, the White House did a summit

where they were trying to address rising electricity prices on data centers. In another

world, no, Iran, that's a main topic of conversation on my show, a major topic, maybe one of yours

interests as well. But in the middle of rural and peace and death and everything that's happening,

the amount of coverage that got is zero. The president just gave his state of the union. He had a

lot of things in that city that you know, Iran, what it didn't come until the 70th minute. I think

what was the rest of it about the economy, about gas prices, about jobs, Mr. President and others,

like that's what people really vote on. And so there's also in Washington and in media,

there is literally zero sub whenever it comes to people's attention, the news is attention,

media, and it's not like we're doing the wrong thing. Matters of war and peace are unironically

more important. So then data center electricity potential plans. But if you want people to be even

acknowledged that you're focusing on those types of things, you cannot be having foreign

adventurism run amok in the Middle East and be declaring things like unconditional surrender,

which is going to be the headline of every major news, you know, every news organization in America,

you know, whenever we're going to make Iran great again, whether you're pro or anti, that's all

people are going to be talking about for the foreseeable future, not to mention oil prices and

just the sheer imagery of bombs literally flying over people's head. So big picture. And again,

I'm always rooting for the United States and it's president no matter who it is. In the case of

this president, I know him really well for many years and I always like him. I don't care what he

says about me. I will always have affection for him, but I also think if you think about it,

like this is the end of something voters take a guy from completely outside the political system,

because they're so frustrated with the system and they like him or don't like him or whatever,

but it's the system that is on trial here and the system has been found wanting. It doesn't

actually respond to voters in the way that it should. It's not improving the country. So they

bring this guy from completely outside the system to shock the system and to tame it,

to drain the swamp. And now I think we can say that that failed. And so what now?

That's well, we have a three more years to go. I put a book behind me, the George W. Bush book,

and it gave me no pleasure to do so because the parallels I'm watching already to 0 4 to 0 8,

let's think about it. We've got a squishy economy with some problems. We've got a Middle Eastern

conflict, potential energy crisis. We have an AI potential bubble, which could pop at any moment.

We have Democrats who are robbed radically, enthused with no leader at the top,

meaning they get to have an open debate in their party. They can say things that are a lot more

honest than the person who has a leader at the top of their party. They can have real function and

they can actually debate things out in the open. It's very healthy for a political party. That's

exactly how the Democrats really ascended from power from 2004, the failed John Kerry campaign

to winning what 55% of the vote under Barack Obama. That was a very good process for them. Well,

I'm watching it all play out step by step by step. And it's very similar, like you just said,

about the revolution, there was a revolutionary aspect to the Donald Trump campaign. The second one,

more so than the first in my opinion, and affirmed, I think, with the popular vote, where it truly

was revolutionary in terms of it. You have this president. He'd been president before. I mean,

literally like he was almost assassinated. There were all of these potential indictments against him.

You know, the imagery, the sheer like imagery and idea of somebody like that being able to send

again to the highest office of the land is insane. And then in the initial moments, you have Doge and

you know, people you would never see in power like RFK Jr. and Tulsi Gabbard and Pete Hegseth,

there was a real excitement for a or Cash Patel or that at that point, not at this point.

But these people were seen as revolutionary actors who were going to come in and throw a bomb

inside of the system. But then if you watch the US government do the exact same thing that it did

under all these past presidents, your revolution starts to look a lot more like the status quo,

which was deeply hated and which you exploited to your great political benefit. And right now,

I am watching the same type of revolutionary aspect take place in the Democratic party. And if

you want any part of that and not to just be run over in future elections, they need to get wise

very, very quickly. I wonder, I mean, since all kinds of things have happened in the last two

years that no one ever could have predicted, like really, really radical things from trumping shot

in Butler, Pennsylvania to right now a week ago, the United States declaring war unprovoked.

There's no direct provocation in the middle of negotiations with Iran, like, even though it was

happening, it was still a shock that had actually happened. Since we have a very recent track record

of really unusual, if not radical things happening, I mean, how, oh, like, how concerned should we be

in the United States about something like really radical happening here, not just a terror

attacker as likely a false flag terror attacker, whatever Americans being killed in America, which

is what matter. But like the US government doing something crazy. How should we feel about

criticism of this war or Americans who criticize the war from within the United States at risk?

Do you think? Let's just be honest. It terrifies me. It terrifies me. Let's be honest to that.

And you should be honest because, well, let's look at the Department of Homeland Security,

right? And we, you and I can be supportive of a lot of the president's immigration policy.

I think we can also recognize that there were parts of that immigration policy, which were

specifically directed by a foreign lobby for trying to deport people who are critical of the

nation state of Israel. Sorry, I didn't care about that. That was literally like a function of like

the Department of Anti-Racism effectively coming in and becoming the Department of Anti-Semitism

as floated by Ibrahim Kendi. So that was the level of insanity that we saw when people are

getting deported for writing an op-ed, okay? Well, now this machinery has a new potential lead

Mark Wayne Mullen, he's very pro-Israel. Well, also, let's see that could get, you know, marched

and created into an organism where already, you know, I've seen calls for people who are critical

of the war, you know, should be silent, should be subpoenaed. I think I saw that one about you.

They said that you should be subpoenaed and dragged. They said I should be imprisoned. Yeah.

Right. Prison, right? Yeah. Didn't somebody say you should even put into an internment camp?

This is how it all happened, guys. I mean, this is how the Pearl Harbor to internment camps

for Japanese was like this. It was a blink of an eye within a year-long period. That's how it happened

where we stripped all of these Americans of their fundamental rights and locked them in a camp.

That's insane. So the idea that it could never happen is obviously proven by our own history

that it very obviously could. But more importantly, it will look like in a 21st century way.

So there will be AI. There's already mass censorship. There's mass bots and propaganda

efforts that are going on right now. I mean, already how difficult is it to even see various types

of video, which is coming out from the actual conflict trying to verify whether any of this is

even real in real time as we're processing what's happening. But I think what you raised is if you

look at every war as for Americans, especially the wars of my lifetime, the war on terror,

I am fundamentally less free today than I was as a child born in the United States in 1992.

And the Americans who lived through Vietnam were less free after the Vietnam War than they were

before. And the Americans who were born or the Americans in World War II were less free in many

respects, or especially during the war for censorship rules and all of the stuff that the government

was doing than before the outbreak of the war and then prefer that with World War I. Instead of

War II, I mean, think about suspension of habeas corpus, all of these different things that these

presidents have done. It is a natural effect for a wartime nation to crack down on speech and

specifically critical speech of those war efforts. And they should be afraid even if you like the

person who is in power, you need to recognize that this is a historical trend, which goes back

through our entire history. It's probably the reason I think that you and I have wore war so much.

And we also, this is the scariest part, is this is when you watch this censorship be self-imposed

on media organizations and you create a system and an incentive structure such that criticizing the

war will remove any professional ability that you may have to advance yourself. Specifically,

let's say as a policymaker in Washington, you and I know dozens of people who are in power,

they don't support this war, they can't say anything out of fear of losing their job. I'm not

just talking about in the White House, I'm talking about in the entire national security apparatus,

the think tanks or others, because they're afraid of either being called by the donors or

before saying that you're being too critical of something that the president supports. Open debate

and free speech, the inability to have any of that and the lead up to Iraq destroyed our nation.

It destroyed it. I'm very committed to making sure that doesn't happen again, but you and I are

individuals and the U.S. government is a Leviathan and we should be wary of it.

As someone, and this is not flattery, but it's sincere. You were one of the very first people

to see this realignment in American politics, I mean, 10 years ago. You saw it very clearly and

you staked your whole career on it and you were right and that's why you've been successful,

I would say. So it's worth listening to your prediction, I think, on this question. Do you see

a crackdown on civil liberties human rights in the United States coming up?

Because of this war, the war is a pretext for what was already in the plans, but do you see that

happening? I could see it easily happening and we already have the machinery as we saw with

Israel criticism and the so-called Department of Anti-Racism. I've raised several cases to you,

Tucker, of the Department of Justice getting involved in like campus incidents, which is insane,

by the way, I pose that under Obama. I pose that under Biden. I oppose it now. I'm going to stick to

my principles. The machinery for that is already laid and it is one that should really terrify us.

And you and I are in an unique position. We can speak out. I don't really care about myself.

I care about the individual person who is relatively powerless with 200 or so followers

getting a knock on the door by the FBI saying, hey, why did you say this? What did you mean by that?

And that very level of harassment is chilling, not to mention an institutional level.

Who knows? I mean, will the government find people? Look at the situation with anthropic and

quad, right? I mean, you have this showdown between a Pentagon and anthropic over the use of AI,

their technology in a time of war, demands over human oversight. The government's basically saying

that's unacceptable. You don't get to dictate those terms to us. They can blacklist you as a company

literally blacklist you for not agreeing to those terms. That's fine. That's the right. But think

about that. I mean, they're basically saying that not only they're not going to use the tech,

they're not blacklisted from all US government contractors, which is massively, massively impactful

to their entire business. This can happen across the board. And you can look at the CBS acquisition

right now with Barry Weiss in charge of CBS news. Censorship doesn't just happen. And you know,

censorship and reduction, civil liberty does not just happen at the government level. Corporate

censorship, corporate power can be just as much of a threat to your individual liberty as the

government power. I mean, this is the last English speaking country, probably the last country in

the world in which attitudes have not yet been criminalized, at least officially. But Australia,

New Zealand, Canada, every country in Europe, you're not allowed to have certain attitudes. You

can go to jail like your opinions are crimes. They are literally thought crimes. And I've just

noticed, because I've been at the center of it, this effort over the past year to criminalize

attitudes. And when I was first called an anti-Semite, I remember thinking, well, I'm actually not.

And so I don't know why you're calling me that. And I was annoyed or whatever. But the insistence

with which these forces are labeling people with the slander anti-Semite, it doesn't seem

accidental. I don't really think they care if you're an anti-Semite or not. I mean, Israel's

very close to the Zelensky government, which supports actual Nazis. So they don't care if you're

an anti-Semite. This is an effort to set the stage for prosecutions. That's what I'm starting to

think. Do you think that's too paranoid? No, not at all. Well, first of all, we have literally

deported people for being critical of Israel. That actually happened already under this government.

We are having the Department of Justice, the Attorney General, get involved in campus incidents

around so-called anti-Semitism. That is the machine and the groundwork, which could be laid

for exactly what you're talking about. But then let's look. We recognize this. If you live through

the woke revolution, let's think about the way that this works now with so-called anti-Semitism

as they accuse you. It's all about escalation. So first, you're being defined as an anti-Semite.

And more recent comments, what do they say that you're trying to incite violence against a

specific organization? Insightment of violence is actually a very specific term. So what does that

mean? An imminent threat, which means that they want to be able to have an FBI agent come and knock

on your door to ask you either to clarify what you're asking about or potentially prosecute you

for your alleged comments that are around this. Each one is a step in a ground to make and to lay

the groundwork, to make it so that such a case could eventually be brought and in an insane time.

And when we have, look, we're at the very beginnings of this conflict. Who knows how long it goes?

I pray it just ends. But again, all through history, it only usually gets worse whenever it comes

to censorship and demands. I mean, already this entire conversation, you and I know, will be branded

as anti-Semitic and pro-Iran. These are meaningless, ridiculous terms, but they will be pumped as

propaganda into entire ecosystem, to smear and to define us both as individuals. From there,

if you're pro-Iran and it were worth Iran, wow, then you're a traitor. And now the traitor

moniker is going to begin to be applied. And then from there, we'll start talking about treason,

right? So very recently, I'll give you a great example. During the outbreak of Russia and

of Ukraine, we had an incident, I think it was with YouTube, where they banned all Russian

state media. And I would make a case to them behind the scenes. I said, guys, I'm not pro-Russian.

But if we're in the middle of a war, which, you know, ostensibly, we're not even in,

should not be able to cover what's going on in Russia, which yes, as a state media, but they put

out things from Vladimir Putin, should I not be allowed to play things from Vladimir Putin,

but never really had any answer for that. I used to deal with that with Donald Trump. So back in 2021,

they had a policy where even if you pulled a clip of Donald Trump saying that the election was

stolen, some say in 2021, they would take down that video. And I would say, guys, I have to cover

the news. He's going to run for president. I, you know, I can get commentary on his clips,

but that is how quickly the censorship machine can act. And especially now we're watching here

with the intertwinement of regulators and of these big companies. If you start to put pressure

like that, you could see it so that even with the government, not directly trying to censor you

for your comments, by literally just branding you anti-Semitic pro-Iran or any of these things,

you can watch your variability speak out as a citizen in America be eroded or evaporate

a completely overnight. And just to restate like the foundational principle of the country,

you have a right, a God-given right not granted you by government, but with what you were born,

to have any opinion you want, to follow your own conscience. You don't have a right to do anything

you want, but you have a right to believe anything you wanted to say, anything that you want,

that you believe is true. Period. And so I'm not pro-Iran, I've never been to Iran, and I'm certainly

not an anti-Semitic at all. However, any American has the right to preferences and beliefs, religious

beliefs, philosophical beliefs, political beliefs. Those are absolute rights, those are human rights,

that's what human rights are. And so you can never prosecute someone for having views you disagree

with period. And I do think we have to stand up for that above all else, right?

Especially in wartime. In wartime, more important than ever. And again, I watch this happen

with Iraq. I watch this happen with Afghanistan. I've read too much about it from Vietnam,

from World War I, from World War II, from the Civil War. And I literally based my entire career

trying to say this will never happen. Or if I have anything to do with it, it won't happen again.

And then it did happen again. And so then we have to set up for the next playbook. It's okay,

we know that they're coming. We know they're coming. So we have to plan for that. The only way to plan

for that is to get the people or on our side. Because fundamentally, again, it's not about us,

it's about even, it's really about smaller private individuals who have literally the fundamental

right to say they're whatever they want. And for them to be harassed, we have to protect that

more than anything. I don't know what's coming next, but I know that you're going to be at the

center of it. And I know you will understand it before most people. So I hope that you will

come back. I really mean that. And I'm grateful for this. Thank you. Sagar and Jenny.

Great to see you. Thank you, Tucker. Thank you for everything that you do. And

forgiving my own start in this business. I'll always be so deeply thankful. Man, if I knew

you're as smart as you turned out to be, I would have paid you more. It's still been working here.

That's it. I would have liked that too. I would have liked that. Thank you, Sagar. Great to see you, man.