Turning Texas Inmates Into Entrepreneurs

All right, we're starting off this episode of Yalates with some trivia.

Want to do some trivia?

If you have the answer, I know.

I think actually, I think I actually have given you these answers, but the question is,

did you read them when I sent you the research?

I did.

I did actually.

I'm curious now.

All right, so we all know, I mean this one's not hard for anybody.

Do we all know which state in this country has the most people locked up in prisons?

Texas.

I think everybody knows that.

11% of the prison population.

See?

11.4% of the prison population is in Texas.

Here's the other part of my trivia.

Do you know how much it costs on average to lock up somebody in a Texas prison for a year?

I don't know.

What would be your guess?

Well, I'm just thinking on average, what's the, what do you pay for education in the state?

6,500 to student?

Is it more than that?

Oh, it's going to be more than that.

Is it more than 6,500?

It's interesting that we will.

Yeah, we'll pay a lot more to lock somebody up than we will to educate it.

To educate it.

Well, you got prison guards and so forth.

What would you guess?

50 grand?

No, it's not that much.

You're like my wife.

She always guesses way out.

Yeah, you're throwing it out.

You're like way out of balance.

Yeah, the million dollars would.

All right, so according to the legislative budget board here in Texas last year,

Texas spends more than $28,000 a year on the average Texas in May.

That's a ton of money.

Per year.

We know that recidivism is a thing, people being re-incarcerated after they get out.

And there is a program here that has been around since 2004 that a lot of people don't know about.

And it just sort of happens in the shadows and they are doing work that is producing some pretty amazing results.

And today we've got them on with those.

But they've been around since 2004.

You're just not finding out about this?

Oh, no.

I've known about this for a long time.

Why have you been holding out for us?

Let's do some more trivia.

When's the first time that I did something on this?

This episode.

This is more than a decade ago.

More than a decade ago.

More than a decade ago.

More than a decade ago.

And so you've been out for all these years?

One of these days you're going to catch up to me, Jason.

If you're hooked, get you up to you tonight.

I'll have full walk that one.

So we got Michael Etcheson, the executive relations manager with the prison entrepreneur,

entrepreneurship program here in Texas with us.

That's what it's called PEP for short.

Michael, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you for having me.

It's a joy of being here.

You said you've done more podcasts.

Have you ever been to a brewery to do a podcast?

I have not.

Oh, this is the first thing.

This is the first.

Michael's a veteran of podcasts.

He's done a number of them.

And we're hoping he might teach us something about doing podcasts.

Let me tell you what else is the first.

We're at Manhattan Project beer company.

Beer company.

One of our favorite places where we do a lot of episodes.

Shout out to these guys.

It's a phenomenal place.

And nobody's having any beer.

No, we're all having coffee.

Including you.

And I am because I don't want to be the only guy I have in a beer here.

So this was peer pressure.

This was a 100% peer pressure.

Wow.

Peer pressure that goes the opposite direction.

Imagine you have coffee.

Is it a beer?

But tell us a bit.

One reason I think we're having coffee too is.

You have a background in coffee.

It's kind of your business.

Tell us about this.

The separate from the prison entrepreneurship program, right?

Well, it started because of this.

This is what I'm trying to do with your program.

Yeah.

Actually, during my time of incarceration as a participant,

you have to come up with a business plan in the program.

And my business plan was a coffee shop.

Yeah.

You've told me before coffee is your jam.

Coffee is my jam.

Yes, it is.

Yes, it is.

It's a universal language.

It's a way to connect everybody, right?

Coffee shops.

Or the Manhattan Beer Project.

Which has a coffee shop.

It has a coffee shop.

It's pretty good.

It's pretty good.

It's somewhere where people come to meet.

It's surrounded by community.

Yeah.

Right.

And that's what I truly wanted with something that was surrounded by community,

where people can come together, connect.

You have your first day at a coffee shop.

Right.

You can discuss business ideas, sign contracts.

Your life would change at a coffee shop.

And that's truly what I wanted.

But I like that.

I also wanted it to be something that will make it impact within a community,

not only provide you with the location that go.

And of course, no breaking mortar or e-commerce.

But with it being universal,

it allows me to reach so many different types of people.

And I'll partner with the nonprofit every other month throughout the year.

And that nonprofit I'll partner with gets 10% of proceeds made from bags of coffee.

So you're doing some real good.

You're in eight states now in Canada.

And the name of it is cream coffee and pastry.

Eight states in Canada.

Yes, I've been able to ship.

Yeah, that's fantastic.

I have my clients.

Yeah, so that is big.

And this is straight out of what you learned when you were locked up in a Texas prison.

It is.

Yes, it is.

And I'll tell you this.

And this is funny to me.

I have my associate's degree in business,

whatever I was released.

But I learned more about business going through PEP than what I actually did.

What?

Going to a school.

How so because you heard from the business executives or what?

I got the advice from the business executives, the mentorship, the leadership.

They were just very, very honest.

It was, it was more, I guess you could say, hands on.

Less theory and more practice.

Exactly.

And they'll tell you if your idea needs some polish.

Oh, yeah, most definitely.

Yeah.

Very honest.

And you all have like cream of the crop business leaders who are coming in.

Behind the razor wire, talking to inmates about their business plans that they've come up with,

you know, in the prison entrepreneurship program.

Yes.

And really helping them to refine things with the goal of,

we're going to help you when you transition out of this place and head back into society again.

Yes.

And we're going to help you to be a success.

Yes.

And that's the other thing too.

Because I've mentioned to you, it's crazy to me the individuals that me as a participant

and the other brothers and everybody involved in it, who you get to come across.

And the advice that you get to get from these certain type of individuals, business owners,

people that are very successful, provide them with all that they've learned and gained over the years of operating their business.

There's, there's no better wisdom or knowledge that you can give than somebody that's been hands on.

It's pretty amazing.

It's pretty amazing.

Let's zoom out here because I think what's, you know, people might be listening to episodes and say,

oh, yeah, I've heard all about these prison programs, et cetera.

There's a few differences here about this.

Yeah.

And that is, you guys recruit a number of different inmates.

Yes.

And those inmates don't stay in the facility they're in.

They go to another facility in Cleveland, Texas, just put off a 59 or,

I don't know what you call it, North East.

North East of Houston there.

And they under, I mean, they go through this, they go through a real program while still locked up.

Not in their own place.

Yes.

You know, this is something really up to qualify for.

And they, they're in pods there.

So they are sort of sequestered together and you, you know, refer to them as brothers.

Yes.

And it really does become a brotherhood.

It is, it's, it's family.

It is my brotherhood, you know, if you think of any, you know,

you was ever involved in any college fraternity or, you know, any group such as that nature,

like this is, this is us.

I'm connected with the individuals that was part of the very first class of PEP, right?

And, and we're all here to help each other out.

And the big thing is, yeah, we, so we will be transferred from all over the state of Texas, right?

If you qualify.

If you qualify.

If you qualify.

Yes.

Which, that's not easy neither.

It's like a, what is it?

Like a 15 page application.

You got to really want it.

Yeah.

You do.

You have to truly want it.

And so you got to go through the application.

You got to be accepted.

And then you got to complete a couple correspondence courses after that.

So you have about three correspondence courses that you have to complete.

I know university somewhere or what?

Baylor University is who we are partnering with when it comes to the curriculum.

Okay.

Yes.

And you actually get a certificate of entrepreneurship from Baylor when you complete the program.

You do.

That's, you do.

You're not shabby.

It's, it's, it's a mate.

Mine's sitting up framed on my wall right now, right?

But the Bible will walk us through who can and who cannot participate in prison.

Because you think of state prisons.

You think of the worst of the worst.

Right.

Who can, who cannot participate in this?

So we accept everybody.

Except anybody with the sexual offense.

Right.

The reason why is we, we are based off of community.

My kids come around these brothers.

You know, we do have a very large amount of female volunteers.

Yeah.

So it's, it's a lot of the safety reasons, right?

Now, not saying somehow in the future that may not change because everybody needs help.

You know, be as of where we've been at the last 22 years.

Yes.

As long as you don't have a sexual offense, you are invited to go.

And how many people apply and you only sit with 60?

Is that right?

So each class, we have three classes a year.

We have three classes a year, typically start out with about between 110 guys.

And we typically have a good 65 to 75 graduate.

Wow.

Yes.

But how many apply system wide in TDCJ?

How many, how many inmates apply?

We were able to reach about 800 guys a year.

Yes.

But that's changing.

That is changing.

Okay.

So now, and I think a lot of people may not be aware of this.

When you enter TDCJ now, you, you get a tablet?

Yes.

Is that right?

Okay.

So, you know, back.

So you got a secure tablet that they issue you.

Yes.

You do.

The internet is secured.

So, yeah.

Back in the day, they used to give you a Bible.

Right.

Right.

2026.

You know, that's right.

What is it that you like?

I know.

I see.

I have actually been on the, I've been on the inside to see what you all do.

Yes.

And it was fascinating being there for that.

And, and, and meeting the guys who were, I mean, these guys were thirsty for knowledge about

the outside that I wasn't the one presenting to them there.

You know, because, you know, what an offer.

What advice am I going to give, you know?

But they, I mean, they were picking my brain about all kinds of different things.

Yes.

Even though I was just there as an observer to, to, to do a story on it.

Yeah.

And, and so it is a hungry group of guys who want something better for themselves.

So, you get this tablet now when you come into TDCJ.

Yes.

PEP is on the tablet.

So, that just gives you an idea.

This is a political podcast, obviously.

It gives you an idea that, you know, in a bipartisan way, this state has been like, yeah,

we like what this is doing and we want more of it.

Yes.

And, you know, there have been proclamations from the legislature about the work that you

all have done.

So, you're going to be in front of a lot more eyeballs in Texas prisons going forward.

A lot more.

So, as I was saying, you know, typically we can reach like 800, 800 guys a year, right?

With our curriculum being on the tablet, you have, I believe, the correct numbers around

135,000 people incarcerated in the state of Texas right now, as of today.

135,000 individuals that has access to us, which, once they are released, now not everybody

will be transferred to our campus, as I call it.

When they are released, they do have the opportunity to come and knock on our door.

They have the opportunity to join in to our big aspirations program, of course, that we have

going on and that provides them with the opportunity to actually get a loan from our

sister company on Trade Capital.

See, and that's part of it is that you're not just telling people in prison, hey, develop

a business plan and when you get out, we're going to dump you out and you're just going to go make that happen

with whatever resources you can scrounge up.

You all have actually created a fund to help fund some of these ideas.

Yes.

And, today, have given out quite a bit of money.

We have a little over 2 million.

So, on Trade Capital started in two, well, six years ago.

Six years ago, as I can't subtract right now.

So, six years ago, he is having that Vietnamese coffee, which is a strong one.

I'm Trade Capital started six years ago and it does provide a way for you to gain business loans

or even grants.

They provided me with the grants to start my business, right?

So, you don't beat back, that's great.

No, I don't.

Yeah, that's free money.

Sure.

As I was saying, you know, free food and free money, you got me.

Yeah.

I'm there.

And it provides a way for all of us, not only just men, but for women who have a criminal history

to actually get the funding to start a business.

It's life-changing.

And I don't know how many inmates, though, in Texas are true entrepreneurs, though.

It's hard to start a business.

Business plans can be tricky.

You got to have some type of structure when you get off the ground, though.

Yes.

I mean, is there that much real interest in this?

Well, a lot of us were entrepreneurs before.

We went to Princeton.

I said, that's supposed to be the title of the podcast.

So...

In a different way.

That's a great thing.

Right?

So the energy is there.

Right?

No logistics is present.

Right.

Because a lot of even if you're doing negativity out there with, you know, in a negative way,

you still, I still need to know logistics.

I still need to know how to get from point A to point B.

I still need to have an understanding of my profit margin.

So a lot of it is present.

It's just the fact that we are directing it in a negative direction.

I tell the brothers all the time, and this is something that, you know,

even myself that I live up to, you know, same hustle, different product.

Right.

Same hustle, different product.

You're right, the dumb.

The same hustle, different product.

That's our title.

Exactly.

Now, it's just, you know, it's a little more knowledge in experience we can gain from our executive volunteers

that come in and actually teach it to us.

So I want to come back to that, though, because, you know, so you're going to be in front of so many more people.

Yes.

Not everybody is going to be an entrepreneur.

Not everybody has the skills or is cut out for that.

But what you all do is you're not just teaching somebody to be an entrepreneur.

You're also teaching them to skill up for jobs when they get out.

And then PEP helps to place people in those jobs.

Yes.

And I was just talking to your executive director the other day, and it was stunning.

A 100% job placement rate within the first three weeks or so of an inmate being released back out into society.

Yes.

That is life changing.

It is.

It's kind of, well, just mind blowing, honestly, 100% employment rate.

Yeah.

Like that is crazy.

You know, have a background.

As I was saying, I had a job.

My very first, I had a job before I made it to one of our transitional houses.

Wow.

When you were still in the system.

I just left out of prison.

Yeah.

I had a job about an hour later.

How big is that when you're coming out?

Because it's intimidating.

A lot of people wouldn't think about this.

It's intimidating to get out of prison.

Yes.

It is.

Very intimidating.

And then let alone I got to go and I got to fill out this paperwork and I got to tell you my background history.

And I know for a fact that you're not going to hire me because I made a mistake in my past.

It's intimidating.

You know, it does cause people to want to lie on the applications.

That's something else that we have.

It's, you know, the character development don't lie.

Just be honest.

Just tell them up front, right?

On your story.

I don't want to waste your time.

Don't waste my time.

But you've been turned down for jobs over the years that were 100% remote.

I have.

Well, you were going to work from home.

Work from home.

Never have to talk to nobody in front of a TV.

Wow.

A computer screen, right?

Wow.

And I've been turned down because of my criminal history.

It's hard to get past the stigma.

It is.

And that's where you all come in because you bring a credibility for having been around for so long.

Yes.

And created this great accountability among the men you serve.

And so now companies recognize that.

Yes.

I mean, you were telling me about a warehouse company.

I believe it was that has 100% PEP employees.

Yes.

And that was a big blessing.

You know, I actually met this individual through LinkedIn.

And we had a meeting.

And we discussed a few things, you know, as far as the operations of the warehouse.

And how many guys do they need?

And he said, you know, I need 10 guys.

Well, boom, sitting 10 guys, he hired them on the spot and paying them more than minimum wage.

You know, and even gave some of the guys, you know, a driver position which provided them with even more increase in pay.

And getting ready to open up another warehouse in Oklahoma, I believe, where he wants all PEP guys in that one.

Wow.

So everybody does not become an entrepreneur, but we have the best entrepreneurs that you will ever come across.

They work harder.

And they've created hundreds of businesses to date.

Yes.

And a lot of those are million dollar plus businesses.

They are.

They are.

They are over 700 businesses.

Wow.

This is a beautiful thing.

Wait, over 700 businesses have earned more than a million?

No, over 700 businesses being created through PEP alumni.

Okay.

Yes.

And a lot of them go back and hire new graduates from the program.

They do.

They do, which is a big blessing because this is providing additional opportunity, right?

These brothers are opening up their arms, opening up their wily,

and providing a way for somebody that's been in their position to make a good living, right?

So let's ask about this.

So we were getting into the numbers here.

Last year, you all had a record number of graduates.

I think it was close to 500.

This year, you're expecting another record, 700.

Yes.

But then we talked about those tablets that you're on, and you're in front of so many more people in the prison system.

You all are thinking you're going to go from perhaps a record number of 700 graduates this year in five years from now to 10 times that or more.

Yes.

Yes, sir.

So we're talking to thousands.

We're talking thousands.

And that's due to the tablets.

Yeah, it's allowed.

It provided us with the way to reach out to more people.

And of course, for these individuals that need to help to reach out to us.

In the past, 800 guys were able to reach out with the tablets.

You can project us to be able to make contact with 10,000 different individuals in the coming years.

That's a lot.

It's my blowing.

And now usually you all do this by reaching out to part of the eligibility is that you've got to be within like three years or so of your release date.

Of your release date.

You don't want to teach somebody something and then have them sit there for another 10, 15 years before they get out.

Right.

So you're catching people close to that release date.

Right.

But now there's this expansion going on.

Yes.

Where you're dealing with people who have much longer sentences.

Yes.

But they're within four years of parole now.

Correct.

And I think that that, a lot of people miss that.

Yes.

Texas every year.

Your executive director was telling me that Texas releases about 45,000 people on parole every year.

Yes.

And now you're getting into this population that was about to be released.

And you know, may not have any upskilling or anything and be ready to contribute.

And now you can reach them as well as they're on their way out.

And that's provided so much motivation and encouragement for these brothers.

You know, the cool thing about that is these new little programs that we've started with you having to be within four years of your actual parole date for the ones who have a longer sentence.

It's mostly peer-driven.

Our staff will go in, provide them with what they need as far as, you know, this is, this is what we're focused on this week.

This is what we need to do.

And the guys run it pretty much themselves.

They just had their business pitch competition.

Right.

And I wasn't present for it, but from what I heard, it was absolutely amazing.

Yeah.

Like what were some business ideas?

I mean, what are they talking about there?

Oh, it's so different.

It's everything is different.

Me, of course, coffee.

That was fun.

You have brothers that have trucking businesses.

We have a brother that has an ice cream shop.

Right.

And I always, I don't know why I always find this funny to me is, you know, you, you can have somebody that's been out in the streets for a very long period of time.

And not saying that this brother did, but you can call so much mayhem, but your passion is ice cream.

That's my passion.

I'm six, three, 250 pounds.

And all I want to do is sell ice cream.

That's all I want to do.

And he's doing very good at it.

Wow.

The brother is doing amazing.

Well, it just tells you, too, that people are more complex than whatever they did on their worst day.

You know, exactly.

You're still, you're, you're a more whole person than that.

You have other things that matter to you, things that have interested you, that you dreamt of being, you know, you got derailed.

But that doesn't mean you can't be that still.

Exactly.

And it's also us being able to provide a community to where these brothers can actually open up.

You can share your passion with me.

And I'm not going to make fun of you, right?

Right.

I share some stuff with my siblings and I get made fun of right now, right?

Which is weird.

You would think that you would be made fun of, you'd be much more likely to be made fun of in prison for sharing something like that, you know.

But it's the community we've been able to develop.

Develop.

Open up.

Tell us your dreams.

Tell us your passion.

And let's put in action.

Let's start making this actually happen.

And I'm going to walk alongside with you.

Michael, tell us your story.

How'd you end up in prison?

So I've always been on that wrong side of the fence.

In the streets, every way possible.

And I just, I thought that was just life, right?

That's what I grew up around.

That's honestly what I felt like.

Okay, so everybody does this.

This is what I'm supposed to do.

You know, I didn't understand the concept of having a job and waiting for a paycheck and all this stuff like that.

And, you know, we moved to Texas, me and my family.

We moved to Texas for me to actually change my life.

My ex-wife, my ex-wife now, she, you know, she, she came home, she worked.

She comes from an amazing family.

Came home, she was like, look, your sons want to know why you have all this money, but you never go to work.

Right?

So what do you, what are you going to tell them?

They're going to make a change.

And I'm like, well, I'm not getting the job.

Not, not here.

Not in Illinois.

And so we decided to come to Texas.

We came to Texas actually one time to visit.

I remember, I told her, I said, well, we're just moving to Texas.

And of course, she's like, no, we're not.

You're just lying.

Right?

So I showed up with a 20 foot U-Haul one time and then we loaded up the house and then we came to Texas.

And we came to Texas again, as I said, to change my life.

But that wasn't the case.

It was the same mentality.

Right?

I kept the same behaviors up.

And of course, as they say, don't mess with Texas.

I got arrested.

Now, you know, the crazy part about it, you get arrested in Illinois.

And I'm like, well, this is cool.

I stay week and they're going to let me out Monday or something like that, right?

It's no problem.

And Texas, they was like, well, 18 years.

Don't.

Yeah, I said, well, no.

Wait, wait, wait.

What are you terms with?

Agribator's song.

Yeah.

Yeah, and so obviously that's a wake-up call if you get a sentence like that.

It is a lot of emotions came with that right because I have five kids at the time.

Well still have five kids right and my youngest she was she was a baby.

She was like two years old right and I'm sitting here thinking like I'm never I'm just

a chance that I'll never ever see my kids again.

This is a chance that I would never ever be able to touch them or hug them, kiss them

on a cheek or just smell their scent right or even hear their voice other than hearing

it crackle over a phone or you know in a room full of other people meeting their family

you know.

That's harsh.

I'm never going to see them graduate never see my kids play sports like it was a lot

of emotions and and I stayed in myself for like two days straight like like what

what would my doing in my life and how long did you serve five years?

Okay.

Yes five years.

And then you found this in there at what point did you find this in there though?

So I found this about was I probably about three years within my sittings and then how

do you know this this was it this is what you wanted to concentrate on.

Honestly, well at first I didn't know nothing about PEP.

And it was actually my silly let me say let's not use it as an example.

Your silly.

I love the brother.

He's a good brother and he told me he said Mike don't take me as an example I'm different

all right.

But I get the postcard in the invitation you know you get a postcard hey would you like

to come to PEP do you have a business idea we'll write us back within this time frame

and we'll send you an application and that's that's pretty much how it goes in my my

cell your roommate at the time he said man you have to do that he's like I've been through

it it's amazing it's honestly like changing but then again he was like they don't use me

as an example because I'm just I can't do it right and and I said okay and he actually

he told me about the past CEO which that really got my attention too right PEP is such an

amazing program or something to be a part of our past CEO did like 22 years in prison got

accepted to PEP made parole bit old parole that he does not want to go home yet because

he wants to complete PEP wow I don't think it's awesome keep me locked up so I can finish

this and I'm like this brother it's crazy like he a mad man this is this this is like just

ridiculous they uh many did he completed it in you know couple years later he became the CEO

and now he's still doing amazing things so for anybody who don't want to stay in prison I'm like I

have to try this wow have to try and then to talk to us about the business executives it would come

speak to you yes what kind of industries were these people represent and did you really think

when you're locked up when you're wearing the jumpsuit that you could really achieve business

success by hearing somebody else who's been to college and done all this other stuff they're

so at first every every program you you kind of have a thought in your mind like well what is

what is the reason why are you doing this why are you coming to prison you know is it to make

yourself feel good is it to patch yourself on the back and it's truly not uh not with our

executive volunteers they really come in because they care about us right um they provided me with

the motivation and encouragement to let me know that I can achieve whatever I sent my mind to

right and I know that they got my back I can call them anytime any day any night and I can ask for

an advice and they are going to provide it to me right no matter what it is no matter absolutely

what have you done that I have really I have yeah uh I have a few mentors so they don't just come

in and speak they create connections with you guys it's connections and that's the other

beautiful thing about pp2 is so our volunteers they work with us on the inside and they continue

working with us on the outside so you get in some programs you see the volunteers on the inside

and you never see a beginning in your life or you see them on the outside and then that's that's

kind of it when you're done you're done and the volunteers it can be anybody from a certain

walk of life who has expertise in something so you know if somebody out there is thinking about

volunteering they may not realize that they've got a skill to impart or some wisdom to impart if

they're looking you know for for a way to do that yes you guys might be it um I was there uh

covering a woman we called mismanners uh she was an etiquette I remember the story yeah etiquette

expert um a decent story man yeah thank you that's my phrase coming right out of that story

yeah he did a decent job on mismanners goes to prison I think we called it he had help with that

but he did a good job I didn't have help with it uh but basically she was teaching these inmates

here's the forky we eat with first when you go to a dinner here's a you know try out some lines

on me if you wanted to ask me out on a date because a lot of you've been locked up for a long time

and you know may not really have that skill polished you know right and I mean she went through all

of the different mannerisms put your napkin in your lap here's how you shake a hand here's how

you present a business card and you know all of that stuff so many of us take for granted even though

I still don't know which fork to use for neither do I but uh all of us you know it may take that

for granted but that just gives you an idea you guys get down to the real nitty gritty uh we're

teaching this and I say you guys and we keep talking about the brothers the men etc you all also

help women who have been through the prison system now the dynamics are different because of the

units that they're in and so forth and so basically you've set it up to where women who've gotten

out yes can become part of the prison entrepreneurship program go through the program and even get

you know some of the funding to help start their businesses too so this is available to men and women

it is available to men and women is this you know this is the other amazing thing so we our CDFI

entree capital is and I could be wrong hopefully none of the viewers quote me on this so entree

capital is one of a kind we only provide business loans and grants to individuals that has a

felony so you have to have a felony in order to get alone from us on the outside of course that's

men and women it doesn't it doesn't matter your gender if you've been incarcerated if you've been

in trouble you can come you can you know we can work with you and we'll be able to

help you make your dreams come true so messy there's again starting a business or growing your

business scaling your business what is the recidivism rate for you guys seven percent is what we

average for the individuals that actually go through the 12 week course and stay at the transitional

houses it drops down to four percent that's what after they get out that's after they get out

correct percent recidivism if I stay in that house after prison and make that transition and the

state average is what I mean 15 to the last was 15.7 percent and I think that number I have is

correct yeah I hope it is one of seven percent recidivism and and and so you're talking about just

overall yours is less than half of that less than half of what the state rate is well this this

something else that's kind of amazing too is our recidivism rate for the individuals that start

their business and again that's seven hundred plus businesses the recidivism rate is zero percent

zero percent if you if you graduate from the program and start a business the recidivism rate is

zero percent zero percent yes I mean that's incredible I haven't heard of another program that's

even close to that that is that is an extraordinary yes boast to be able to make it is and I love

saying these numbers too as well so I can see here though the stance around for the all day low

what do you want to tell Texas Texas taxpayers about this program is any of this funded by

by taxpayer money and second what would you tell them about this because they've heard a pretty

good message here right is there something behind the curtain we don't know right well as

was it our funding doesn't come from taxpayers I'm actually comes from our you know our our

trusted and and and very dedicated volunteers and donors um a lot of them are people who've been

through the program yeah a good percentage of the financial support that we get are from our alumni

our alumni come back they they come and give back yeah not only jobs but they're helping us out you

know with the financial support as well which that's kind of unheard of too whenever you look at

other organizations uh taxpayers what was it last year 2025 I believe we say close to two million

dollars in tax tax money also from keeping these brothers out of incarceration right from getting

them home providing them with what they need and keeping them away from the businesses if they don't

go back we're not paying that $28,000 plus per year to to to rehouse them exactly and the 700

businesses sorry and wrote the 700 businesses does that represent 700 different graduates or is it

okay so it is 700 graduates just 700 businesses and as far as the revenue that we've been able to

put back into the economy last year I want to say the number was around 122 million dollars what 122

million dollars we've been able to put back into the economy and that's broken out from these

businesses operating plus people hiring employees or what correct correct all is it's covering

all that and on that note of taxpayers uh another member of your leadership team was saying

basically you all are taking people who are using a significant amount of tax money and turning

them out into society to pay taxes right right working jobs owning businesses and paying taxes

instead of using taxes yes exactly so it's it's uh I'm gonna proceed overall turn around you

know you're on a completely other side of the fence yeah if it feels so good to be allowed by

the sense yeah even though I don't like the tax yeah nobody's hurt we don't either but I don't

know I I I I enjoy seeing it come out of my check right there's some well because it lets you know

that man I I'm on a whole different path now hold totally different let me ask you this so this

sounds like something that states would salivate over you know states perhaps that even have less

of a population than Texas does that it's incarcerated um you all have actually gotten

interest from other states and have inspired some other states to start their own programs

and it doesn't just end in the United States you're getting interest from places around the world

about what you're doing in Texas prisms yes correct um so we do have a good handful of other

states that truly want us to come and get involved with them um and then of course yes all around

the world as you were speaking of Chris our CEO he was contacted by Australia why I know at one

point we were contracted by contacted by the United Kingdom um so and these are people who are

saying what you're at what your blueprint how do you do this we want some of that magic yeah how

are you be so successful what are you guys doing what do you provide these guys that we're not you

know um we we have 35 employees that's it 35 employees and I believe the exact numbers like

30 of us have all been incarcerated why don't we have what other people don't have is that we

have the experience we know what it's like being locked up I know what your kids feel like every

single night I know what your wife feels like if you're married your parents your brothers your

sisters your whole family I have a understanding of what it's like and that's what that's where my

passion comes from I don't want your kids to feel like that you know I love you in your family

even if I don't know your whole family but I love you and I want them to be proud of you and I want

you to feel good about being a father right the last thing I'd ask is you know there are there are

probably dozens of programs in Texas prisons yes that help prepare inmates for when they get

released yes how do you think yours is so different though is it the entrepreneurial shipper is

it something else it's everything it's the passion that we bring into it my favorite saying is

is a purpose over profit right it is something that we love to do with everybody on the team

we we live in breed pp we live in breed benefit in somebody else and then it's also the encouragement

from the executives the volunteers you know all these individuals that are involved but but

that seems like I feel like I've heard that from a number of different programs though

be yours with a zero percent percent of this is great for people you start their own businesses

I haven't heard that before what's the support to as well in the mentorship I'm I'm incarcerated

you coming you provide me with all that you know I'm going to see you on the outside I'll be like

my brother I want to start this business can you walk with me and you walk with me and you

provide me with that support of of all that I need to get make this business successful the

support is everything the community is everything and that doesn't exist with other programs

it's so I've been through a few other programs and I've never been involved in anything that's

like pp right the community is everything too you know we stick together our volunteers go to our

transitional houses and they feed the guys and they fellowship with them and they just sit and talk

right so it is a it's a strong connection well and maintaining that connection is key because a

lot of these people before they got to prison may have never had that kind of connection of people

who understand them who advise them who mentor them who keep them accountable because that's a

part of it as well and now you've created this network where you know once I get out of prison

and I start on this path I'm going to have difficult days where maybe I you know start to feel like

I'm questioning things are revert back and I've got people now who are going to hold me accountable and

who get what I'm going through correct correct my last thing for you would be you know Texas has

always called itself you know this you know law and order state and you know as you mention Texas

doesn't play around when it comes to lock up you know you've seen it you you've lived it there are a

lot of people in this state who are you know especially with you know some of these bigger offenses

and I mean I met a lot of guys in the program and they they had some serious offenses yes there

are a lot of people who say throw away the key lock them up throw away the key I don't care about

them I don't care what happens with them blah blah blah blah but the fact of the matter is is that

most of these inmates will get out at some point correct and it's a question isn't it of how do

you want them to come back correct it's not whether you want them to come back it's how do you want

them to come back correct now do we want to be you know part of the solution when these brothers

actually come home do we want to open up our hearts and our minds and realize that people can change

or do we want them to come home and then have to struggle and really live to survive on a daily

basis right do we want our society to be safer because if so and then we all need to be involved

or do we want our society to continue to be you know a little more dangerous walking

from the grocery store into your car right there's so much potential behind those walls 10%

of the nation's entrepreneurs have a criminal history 10% of the nation's entrepreneurs has

a criminal history because isn't it almost easier to start your own business than to get a job

in some cases if you have a history it is it truly is you again I don't have to fill out the

paperwork I don't have to really you know inform you of anything unless I want to voluntarily

I can just come provide my service provide my product if I have a product to sell and then move

right that's a good point so but what you all are aiming to do though is to say that this can be

a law in order state but at the same time we can do something to make sure that people who are

coming out of the system yes are ready to be back out in the streets and back out in society again

exactly and it that does take all of us right it does take all of us coming together so Michael

congratulations man I mean it's faster to hear about this and you know we learn a little

long in the tooth we've been doing this for a couple of minutes I've heard about a lot of

programs but the recidivism right here is fascinating thank you secondly starting businesses my

wife has several businesses I know how hard it is it's it's hard to do it is and you know compound

that with what you guys have experienced and what you've gone through you by people say hey

but they put themselves there regardless you're still trying to build out of that yes and you know

that deserves a toast my glass is empty though so next time so it's mine see the coffee wasn't bad

was it coffee is good here really great and then how do you think Michael will be the first to tell

you that coffee is important so how can people like your company by the way how can people find

you so cream coffee dot shop you can go online cream coffee dot shop cream coffee dot shop you can

place your orders I got many different rows many different blends whatever you like I I believe I

had to fulfill your needs all right I love it congratulations man this is a fantastic

here about this and I know you guys have been around for what uh 22 years now but that's

incredible yeah and congrats personally to you yeah thank you so huge of the great work on this

huge congrats and and I did know that you all have been around for a long time because I did that

research and and it's been interesting as someone who caught y'all midway along your journey here

you know like a dozen years ago or so it's been interesting to see how it has grown since then

oh yes and stunning to hear what you all are planning in the next five years or so I mean yes

this is going to be huge I don't know how y'all are going to do it you're going to need a lot

more volunteers yeah I mean you two we're going to have to come in the president hey I'm willing to

do it we're going to do it voluntarily too you never know it whether so well look if is

involuntarily live we got it loan for you yeah and and there's a program for me waiting yeah

let's hope it doesn't happen that way Michael thank you yes thank you appreciate you guys