Two Bangers

0:00This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Well United have dropped more points on the road, Everton 2, United 2 at the Hill, Dickinson Stadium today. Here to talk about it. Daniel Harris, how's it going Dan? Uh yeah yeah, I'm I mean, save the obvious, we'll get it, we'll about you. Yeah, do alright. So, minor, minor hangover on the count of going to a festival yesterday. Get how much it can a beer was. That's an interesting question. It's Seattle, so I'm thinking, is it like craft,

1:00ale made out of ermine and Yeti for like 78 pounds? Or is it, we're all free love here and it's 6p. No, it was $18 for a can of beer. How big is this can? Oh, just normal can sized can. As in like a stubby or like a pint. Like a pint, a US pint, yeah. So half a half a liter basically, yeah. Yeah. Deary me. Anyway, festivals for you. At Gastonbury we actually found that the most economical and acceptable way to drink was if you get a biopart of Prosecco and you pour it, you spit in half, you get roughly a pint glass of each. So that's alright. Yeah, yeah, that's that's I mean, it wasn't cheap obviously, but that felt like actually not a bad, like cost effective, not too much going to the, not too much going to the pisser. And yeah, I actually felt like not bad, not bad where I'm doing it. Yeah, not bad. Well, it is also Seattle, so the Mrs. dropping Trum gummies are just, er, not for me,

2:04I'm too old for that kind of thing anymore. It's, I don't, I guess, I don't know how, I mean festival conducive, that kind of thing is, it's quite, it's quite heavy. Well, I tell you what was that, we'll get onto the football in a second, but it was very jarring, we got day two today coming up, but very jarring set list where you'd get some kind of jazzy middle of the road, boring bollocks followed by trash metal and you're like, well, this is a change up here, which I know the curation was interesting. Anyway, Manchester United today, then what to make of this, it's I reckon all six goals we've conceded this year, you could say main mistakes there. I know that to a couple of when in the top corner today, Michael Carrick said it afterwards, but in the build up to both, you're like, nah, that's, that's not top defending. It's, I wouldn't even take it to the defending. I feel like it is one of those games you could look at in a lot of different ways. You could say, well, it's a difficult way game, they had to score two bangers to get a point

3:05and we did some good stuff or you could look at it and say, it felt like a little bit of a head loss. It didn't feel like the performance of killers the way that, and I guess we'll come to it, but the thing that really pissed me off, because you could just see it coming, was the way they were able to just start the intensity after conceding the first goal. Why couldn't we have played like that before? Yeah. And then obviously the inability to see it out was, obviously it was a brilliant finish, but it shouldn't have been in the conception and we even had chances for three one. Before. Very much. Not actual chances, but what we meet like good situations where a cup, where sort of two consecutive good decisions and you're probably going to score again, there's like the bones of a good team there, they're fucking brainless. I mean, in the way that they try and do stuff sometimes, those were the two most glaring things. I think there's a structural flaws that are also the coaches for, and that will come to you, but yeah, it was,

4:05I mean, it's always a massive heel to the soda plexus when you can see like that. Yeah. Do you remember the film game last season? I think it was the second game as well, and it was one of those, I didn't feel quite as ill as I felt, even though it was the last second goal with the fuller one, where I just felt so fucking despondent because I felt like, oh shit, it's going to be another one of these seasons. And I don't feel like that, but I felt there were enough things in there that I didn't like to think it shouldn't quite be like this at this point. I'd like more things to have changed. Yeah, fair. I don't know how much of the defensive problems or the goals we're conceiving are structural necessarily, although you have this kind of square that you cannot circle between United Wanting to play hyper-session with some level of pressing. You know, you can see Bruno and Ken Yiren, and Rashford doing pressing today and a higher line, which you kind of need to do, otherwise you just get, you know,

5:05all spread out and press on the defensive line, and you can't do it with the back fall we've got. You just can't. This is one of the structural problems is there's too much space between whoever the frontman happens to be and the back fall. And so it means that any team can counter on us and fight and find gaps. Now, last season, we were able to outscore the opposition, also we defended the box pretty well, ultimately when it came to it. But if you give Premier League teams so much, so many touches in your box, then they all have players to fight with you. Yeah. And so that's one of the structured issues, I think. Well, we're also seeing is there struggling to find the balance because on the one hand, they're trying to play a more considered game. But on the other hand, I felt like, especially in the first off, it trying to do that costs some intensity. And yeah, how you how you play that game where you're keeping possession,

6:06but you're keeping possession in a purposeful way where you're still you're stretching the opposition, you're testing them, you're tiring them out, all of those things without taking risks in possession at the wrong time. And we have a lot of players that want to take those risks and that's a good thing. But they're trying to they're trying to work out what the balance is. And I think I think you'll get better. And but we have to be ready for some seeding problems. And I'm willing to be willing to be liberal in the way that I persecute them subsequently. I thought there would be TV issues this season with the evolution of the style. I don't think it's radical change. But if you look at if you bring Telemans and Santos into the team, they're very past for they're clearly moving to a game where you control the ball more. And Kobe had 94 touches today, lots and lots more than he used to get again didn't finish the game, which will come onto the subs. I'm sure. And so I can I can see where they're going.

7:07I just think there's there's some issues. If I ideally, right, if the club were able to do it, and they appeared to not be able to do it. I'd have like more turnover in players, you know, and had a real think about. Is it right that McGuire still at the club would we have been done better with a younger PC or defender if we're going to try and play this kind of football? Because you're going to get this clash all the time where they're going to try and control the ball. They're going to try and press high. And then you've got three of the four. A little bit slow. Did you hear what Harons had talking about Harons? Do you ever said about Maynu after the last game? So he was praising. I thought he was brilliant. Say hasn't that many minutes in preseason he was magnificent. His work without the boards improved so much that his Michael's been in is becoming a real monster in there. Windsor's second balls and other jewels. The thing is he's so young. If we want him to play to this club for another 10 years, there's going to be times when he's going to go through a patch like I spoke about with Rashi and myself. That's just like classic Harons. Well, only has he somehow managed to make something that has fucking nothing to do with him about a player who's a million times more talented about him and throw in some reflexive pronoun abuse.

8:16Yeah, every time is brilliant classic Harons. But what did you make of the team that was picked? I have to say I've come to really dislike Kanya at nine and it's we talked about this before. He's not really a number nine. He also I ended up looking at the average position of Kanya and Bruno. And he basically makes United 442 because Bruno is pushing for you know, hi, he's not coming back into central midfield. He lamens his now the player making the line breaking passes. Although I told him about Kobe 10 line breaking passes today. Yeah, and 14 defensive contributions. He's doing everything at the moment. And when we get below the next to him, I think it's going to I wonder if this one. Yeah, I wonder if it because one of the things that they will add that we didn't have today will speed might speed the game up a bit by because by recovering the ball a bit higher up the pitch. Yeah, and I think that will help us and that problem that I was talking about in managing to be an intense team while at the same time managing to be a controlled team.

9:16But they might make it more chaotic, but he also might enable us to pin teams back, which means we get a bit more tempo in with the passing. I thought he might have played Santos because I guess what I'm thinking is difficult away game. You could say, well, we're just going to play our class players and trust them to take move the ball around from Everton. Or I thought he might say, well, we're going to try and. We're going to try to win the right to play by being a little bit more solid. I mean, I don't mind that he picked to them and so I thought because then you play to them and so again, sabber and then you've got where it shouldn't be that kind of game. So you want his picking apart a deep defense. And then you've got decision to make for the Darby. But yeah, I think I like, couldn't you? Yeah, we said it last week. We've said it last season. He's not a center forward and neither is Bruno. You can play Bruno as a false nine. And it might work in some games. And I think it might be something you might try and some of the bigger games. But I don't like it in this one. And I mean, I hope eventually the assessor is just going to play all the time. And that makes things much easier.

10:17It does. And give you the kind of box presence that we're having trouble gaming. One of the reasons I much prefer and boom, I sent a forward because he is basically a center forward that goes from outside to in. Is he makes those runs in behind in that that I was like I said this before and it's the I test and then look up the date. He's made the most runs behind of any player in the Premier League. Right. And it's interesting that one because when he's on the right sometimes it's like actually should you not be coming deeper to make some kind of triangle with the people that are there. And the problem with them boom, though, is particularly when it comes to the combination plan. It was really like that today is the first touch. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Kunya was off it in the aspects as well, but can be better. I think that technically and boom, as not as good as the players around him and it felt like it really it really showed today. I'd have been through the middle as a result. It would come from my one of Kunya. Well, you see the Rashford or Kunya right at the moment because I'm at injured obviously and Lacey wasn't even in the squad. Dersi was in the squad. Lacey wasn't what was the point we kept.

11:19He knew one of them at the club and he didn't want to be at the club. It's a bit odd. And what circumstances are you going to use him? Marcus was good again today. I thought, but he doesn't want to play on the right. But it might have just given you a bit of balance at least to try it. I hate Rashford on the right. And I think what we saw with Rashford on the left was, yes, he played well and it's also the partnership with Luke Shaw. It was good. Those two know how to play together. They both had their best seasons in tandem with each other. So I think that if you're going to play Rashford, especially when you're trying to reintegrate him, it makes much more sense for him to be on the left like that. He's Rashford is one of those guys, isn't he? It just doesn't look right with the goatee because I guess you always think of him as young, fresh face. And then because it's quite weird to see them in Sous-One because he's a proper baby face. He's someone who, sort of by rights, shouldn't be able to grow any facial hair. He's got one of those faces. I tell you a point about Central Midfield. I think what I think Karak is looking at there is that every time I have 40% possession in their first two games.

12:22They just seeded the ball all of the time and by choice by the looks of it. And he's probably thinking, well, we're just going to be on top. It probably didn't help the timing of this because Everton fans are sort of in mutinous mood at the moment aren't they? Because the club tried to sell their favourite young player from underneath the manager. So he kind of got the atmosphere up a little bit. Yeah, it's something that I mean, presumably there's going to be quite a few changes for the Saber game in midweek because the Darby's after was two days later. So it'll be interesting to see where they go there, where some of the players who need a few minutes, something like Cesco may start in that one. And I think you're going to look a lot better when he's in the team full time. I agree, but I think it's actually one of those where it feels like the games against City might be the kind of ones that you end up seeing Cesco sit out because we do have ways to win those games without a centre back. Centre forward, sorry. And yet he's someone I just imagined City wouldn't want to see.

13:35With Teedermans, I didn't feel the decision not to play him rebounded on us. I just thought it might have been Santos. But I thought that in the first, we played some nice stuff in the first off. We're actually quite good now passing the ball through the middle of the pitch. I didn't enjoy a tall easily ever to get out because obviously if we sit off them and they get out, then that's a tactical decision. But they were passing through us without any difficulty whatsoever. And that was not particularly enjoyable to behold. But I mean Teedermans also, like I think he's underrated and there's ability to make blocks and win tackles, is working out what the balance is. And that is something the players really need to do on the pitch. And sometimes you just put players on the pitch and it works. And other times it takes a bit of time for the players to work out how they're going to interact with each other on the pitch. And I think Teedermans, Manu Bruno, can work. I mean, I don't think it will be our first choice in the field though. And I'm really looking forward to seeing what can be done when Teedermans can cross the Cessco.

14:39But it felt like as that half wore on, we lost the impetus. And I don't know if that's... I mean, one way we can generate the impetus, as before, with Labour sort of pressuring teams high up the pitch. But we don't have a controller to set a tempo really. And I don't know if the idea is for Teedermans to become that. But I think we need to see more because we only made one really good chance in that half. I don't know if it's the post, but that was just from some ridiculous behaviour. The football that led up to it was good, but we did generate a high quality chance. Now there were ten touches in the opposition box in the first half. And it felt like a lot of entries to the box without generating good chances. The Courney chance was the one that was a good chance that we should have scored. But I wanted more from the amount of decent possession that we had and some of the decent football that we played.

15:40And I don't know if that's... Because you could say, and I think this is a fair thing to say, that... And Bumoan couldn't have played out their osses. Not everything they did was shit, but their touches were off. They just looked... They're a bit sloppy in their work. So you could just say, well, on a different day, they don't play like that. But I also wonder if the style of play needs to be better inculcated. So that when they do play like that, you're still generating chances because of the methods. Yeah, I mean, the opening goal wasn't metadrily, was it? It was the Crossfield pass some Maynute and Bumoan. He does the rest on his own pretty much. And you want to see a lot of that, right? But he got... Was it 11 goals last season? He's definitely got the capability to get 20. Not maybe not in the lead, but across all competitions. You know, you expect that. And there's a lot of firepower there for United. I agree that the front three Bruno's headless chicken,

16:40Rashford historically hasn't pressed well. I don't think Bruno's the headless chicken. He's a free spirit, I'd say. I don't think he doesn't. That headless chicken to me is... I mean, the classic headless chicken to me is Rolf Fox. I mean, in the pressing, he engages, but not always at the right time. He's got to follow the trigger with the rest of the team. I think he's got a bit of that... I must have it now. I could have a bit of a very consult about him. Yeah. You never know what the instructions are, but it didn't look like it was very good to me. We'll see if it improves. Because they didn't try to last year really under Carrick. They sat in the mid block, protected parents, and the rest of the back four. And a Kessumiro, especially, and now they're trying to evolve to a different team. He was the undoing of Oli. I'm not saying it's going to be the undoing of Carrick. Carrick's got better players than all they have. I'd say. And yeah, I'm not particularly worried, but it's just frustrating because we've tossed away points against the Crap teams.

17:43Five of them now. The Tari Giorgi, Kualaise, Lane the Game, you know, they're already lost the impetus at that point. Rashford comes off on 70. Do you think he's injured or getting a bit of cramp? He was asking for an energy drink just before, so maybe he was tied. He was tied. I shouldn't be really. But then Carrick said he was feeling something. So yeah, it seemed a strange change because he had that fallback on toast. Yeah, yeah. Who's not really a fallback? Is he rolls? He's a midfielder and he roasted him a few times. Yeah, it did see. And but just all the impetus went out. And it felt like some of the changes were, they could, maybe they gave the signal that they were negative. You know, Rashford for Dorgu is an interesting one because Dorgu just then didn't get the defender at all. We had sent us coming, but that was later. Dorgu gets proper sucked in for that first goal. Yeah. And I just, when you're closing out again to me or you're trying to close the gap, could you or someone you own on the pitch?

18:43I would almost always, if you're not either in front, take off and Bumeau not Cunya. Because Bumeau someone I can't rely on to hold the ball. Whereas Cunya, I know even if his touch is off, he's able to, if you give it to him, he's able to take it downfield, take it for a walk, hold the ball when fouls. Well, that first goal, I mean, there's consecutive errors. I roll favor it. I roll favor it, but Harry gets sucked towards the ball. Lesandro Martinez comes across the cover and sure covered comes across the cover. Martinez and therefore there's no one at the backstitch. And we've seen that before, right, more than once. And then I guess, I don't know, is it harsh to say Lomons, he's got a hand on it. Could you have done better? I mean, he's a great strike. On first viewing, I definitely didn't say goalkeeper. I said, there's a fucking ridiculous finish to hear that hard from there. It's a brilliant finish. So, yeah, I didn't really, I didn't wonder if a goalkeeper with arms might have saved, might have saved in Bumeau's, but actually I think he dived over it rather than didn't quite get there.

19:48I think it would be, I think it's harsh to blame the goal, because also from that position, you're naturally, you're naturally setting to go across. And you're offering someone a near post, but you're sort of saying, if you can hit it, well enough to beat me out of that near post, because then I hate because you can't cover the whole goal. That's sort of the point. The goal is meant to be hard to cover. So, yeah, on the sky commentary, they were desperate to say that Lomons was having a shit game. It was quite weird. Because he had a few like ropey moments where he decided not to come for a cross. They were making out like Jack Green has just given the greatest substitute appearance of all time. It was quite weird. I think it was maybe Troy Deaney who was on co-coms. I think it was him who said something, who said things such as, it's important, Neverton, don't concede again. Thank you. Sure, we've been complaining about, hasn't got the legs to do the overlapping runs. It was funny, Rashford on the pitch, he seems to have found a new lease of life.

20:49We've just fell, so like he'd been told. Get forward a bit. We do need this. We've got all our forwards wanting to play in the same areas, basically. If there's no width coming from wide areas, you're not going to be very predictable. But it's his cross, fine cross, sesco goal. It's hope it's the first of many that come from. Because they should get a lot of cheap goals like that, really. The sesco goal. Yeah, I mean, the felt that keeper should probably have saved it, actually. When you see that shot, don't you? When he concedes that goal to Fernandez, and they zoom in on Bellingham and Bellingham says it was in the middle of the fucking goal. Yeah, that's brilliant. Yeah, it's not as you can do about that. Yeah, don't have to be very good at it reading to see that. I mean, I think I wanted to slightly better head of from sesco, but as you say, you should score loads of goals like that. It's just we have to make sure that we feed him properly. Right. But they asked Bruno, who, which United Play thought could be player of the year this season. He said sesco. He feels like he's got an explosion in him. I wonder if he's got quite, he's quite a killer naturally.

21:52Feels like that is something that he needs to learn and having collated in him a little bit. But yeah, I think he's a player. We need to get him into that team as soon as possible. And once he starts really physically asserting himself, the whole dot playable car is sort of how it's best, is good, but it's not as consistent as it should be. I think it's the not as consistent. I think I feel quite confident in saying it's not as consistent as it's going to be. He is able to do it. It's just the focus, the carefulness to make sure you do it more often than not. So yeah, I can you can look at that and say there were there were some positives. It's just obviously unpleasant for it to end in the way that it ends. I thought Matt Sroyley could have done better. Honestly, he's gone a bit weak into that clearance and it's gone straight out to Madeleine Niles. He's a deadline day freebie or cheap anyway. And where do you come from? Leon or something like that? Leon. When I think about that goal, I don't really think that much about him.

22:53It's sort of a mess around how he, it's more about like Euro had the ball. I think it was Euro in our box, at 50, like sort of like 90 plus 453 or something. And he and somehow, yeah, we didn't manage the game well. It was naive and it was incompetent. What do you make of the sub-summing? We've got Dorgu, came on for Rashford, Cisco, Fakunya, on 70. That really did seem to change the nature of the game, at least the United went really passive after that. Euro sent us in Maserati right at the end of the game to try and manage it. I was kind of surprised he took Manu off, given that he was so influential in the game. He's the closest thing we've got to a tempo setter right now, and not necessarily that he is that yet. And yeah, he's just, for me, because I've seen his play a lot, I'm always thinking, why happens if they score? Who do I want on the pitch? But then I guess I'd also want to see them on the pitch at that point

23:53and I guess, maybe he wanted some of that. So I get why he made that change. I'm not seeing it going. That was due to Chris' behaviour. But yeah, as I said before, I definitely would have kept on Kunya as opposed to Unbumo. Cisco's a good change. So I don't mind too much. I'm not sure, I guess Dallow wasn't having a particularly good game. Euro isn't the right back, but then at the same time, you're probably thinking we might need to defend some crosses here. So with invite someone who's tall but craft the defending crosses. I mean, I think we're seeing some of the things we've pointed out in the preseason, like preview that United are a little bit short. In defense, they have a lot of numbers, but there's some definite question marks over the quality all over the place there. And I don't think we're going to concede two goals again, because then we'll be able to concede like 70 odd in their league and we'll be in a lot of trouble. You can only score more than the opposition so many times

24:53if you're going to give away crappy goals. Yeah, and the opposition are only going to score goals like they scored today a couple of times. But there's also the case that the way that we played was given them the opportunity to do that. Yeah, well, there you go. It is disappointing, because there's quite a few drop points already. You get comfort from the fact that Arsenal on down, Arsenal should win the league by several points this season, because everyone else has weaknesses. I mean, everyone else, they have weaknesses, and not just their managers trousers. Tearing me. Yeah. First mention of our TETA's trousers and his trousers. I mean, I think the thing with Arsenal is you see it often with teams to win things that they just become better after they win that trophy, because they know they can do it, and it gives them an authority and a confidence in the way that they go about things, and other teams think about them differently too. So, yeah, and they just come from behind to be Chelsea too.

25:54So they're feeling very good about themselves, even though on paper you're not looking at the ones who are left and thinking that is scary. It's not scary at all. But the thing with the United is that, yeah, we four points from two games, sorry, from three games, it's not like it's not disaster, but we do play City Next. And if we were to use that four points from four games, that's a poor start to the season. Yeah, I mean, fortunately, City are in some flux as well. They've obviously got tons of quality players and spent £500m or something this summer. It's like a billion. It's like a billion pounds in the last 18 months they've spent. They've sold a lot too. And you've seen the last 18 months, but in the January before that, they also spent the shit load. Yeah, there you go. So, I mean, yeah, we all have our opinions about what we're going on here. But it doesn't matter ultimately. And then you look at the team, you think, do I think this is a team we can compete with and beat? Yeah, I do. And we obviously saw it last season in the first in the first carrot game. I'm not, I think one of the things carrot did last season was he,

26:56he profile the players really well. And I'm a room had not done that. You saw players be in the places that see with them best. And I'm not, I don't feel like we've seen that quite as much this season. He's sort of trying to force a few things. He's trying to force a few things. He is trying to force a few things. And I mean, Amazonery is a problem because Amazonery makes it hard for you to play and boom out front. And that if you're not playing and boom out front, then you sort of you play couldn't you there, but really Bruno's there. Yeah, I don't, it'll work sometimes because these are good players we're talking about. But it's not the best way. So when you have a bad day, your system is not going to get you out of trouble by giving, by platforming your best players well enough. So that even if they're not playing well, they'll do enough good things to win the game. The ball will stay down the other end enough so that you try and keep your dodgy defense out of it. And we're not, we haven't worked that out yet this season. But once Cessco's in the team or once Belabers in the team, that stuff will matter less because I think you'll have players that will cover for that kind of thing. Yeah.

27:56And now it says goes like a fitness and Rache was still trying to get up to fitness and Amazonery. But why is Rache made this and that were pre-season's meant to do? The Rache didn't have a pre-season. I mean, he wasn't the World Cup, I guess. So yeah, there is that. I mean, it will solve itself. Cessco's definitely going to be the one that helps most of all. All right, we're going to have to talk about our in-depth preview of United vs. Sabah in the European Cup. Also known as Champions League. Have you done your deep research on this one? They scored an amazing goal against the Parle Bershevar in the last minute of normal times, four times to four times to get there. A volley from a corner like the one, the bit like the one that meant the outer scores for Valencia. But sort of from the side of the box, not from the edge.

28:56There's obviously an amazing story with the manager. You familiar with this? No, I'm not going for it. So I mean, it will be everywhere before this game. I mean, I have seen pieces on it. So what happens is he goes on, he goes on who wants to be a millionaire. He wins enough money to come to England and basically study to be a coach. He spends some time at United, actually. Yeah. He then becomes a coach with a who wants to be a millionaire money. Then he gets the supper job eventually and now he's in the Champions League. We should obviously, we should be them. I guess it might be some good low block practice if that's how they come and play. But we're tacticals like that. They don't really play like that. I don't I think they'll try and they'll try and attack a bit more. I don't think they'll just sit there with 10 and 11. Yeah. They have almost no players anyone will have heard of outside of Azerbaijan. It was very challenging looking through their squad and going, yeah, who's this player played for?

29:58Where is he? So that shows my lack of European football knowledge. I guess you have to be an extreme hipster to know an awful lot about them. They did play like eight games in qualifying for this. They've earned their right. They'll be confident. They'll be ready for this. We need to win obviously. If you don't beat Sabah, then you're starting to make it difficult for yourself already. Especially as Roma looking quite good. Yeah, then Gasparini. Yeah. They're looking good. It's just the thing, a question of who you play and you've got that situation where you're saying, are you trying to set a new year of Evans? You're trying to play what you think is your first team as often as possible. So they get that familiarity and they start building confidence, momentum and connections with each other. Or are you rotating? I think SESco is the interesting one. Does he play an hour in this game? 75 minutes, something like that? I presume he's not going to start against City, I don't think. I would 100% start him. I want him in the team. You've got this center forward. He's a massive advantage.

30:58I also think you've got quite a small team. He's someone who can get you goals from set pieces. And also given that you've lost Casamiro, who's job it was to defend the fun process. And that's fucking teet them and doing that. Yeah. I'd also be trying to get him in the team for that reason. But yeah, I mean, I hope we see SESco from the start. But at the same time, I totally understand why they're being careful with him. And I can't sit here in all good faith and say he must be starting. Because I don't know the medical details. So I'll be in it. We be idiots to say to say that. I feel like Carrick will want him in the team. So he will put him in the team when he's ready. When are we expecting Belabor? Two weeks. Is it International Breakoff to City? No, we've got one more after that. I think we've got Fulham and Brighton and Fulham, actually. I think he's right at the end of September this International Break. Okay. Belabor in a couple of weeks we're told, but although United have said that about Matthias Delict for the past year. He's a new Jerry Neville nickname was two weeks. Yeah, that's right. But it's actually there much less committed all these days.

32:00Yeah, he's close. Mount was also the game today, wasn't he? It was in squad. Yeah. Yeah. So are we going to see some changes? Yoro, Evan, come into the side. Sure is the interesting one. Are they going to can he play three games in a week? Do we believe that? It's not, yeah, it doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be for me anyway. It doesn't have to be Yoro and Evan. But I just want you to decide which one you're going to try and bring through. And focus on doing that because it is necessary. And that's you think that actually neither of them are going to amount to it. In which case we've got a problem. But a various times, I mean, I think probably a lot of us, a lot of us swither on which one of the two is better. Different qualities. I want a big season from at least one of them though. I am like seriously worried about Harry McGuire. I just think he's, I don't know what he was doing over the summer. A bit too many time. A bit too much time on Greek islands. I'd guess he's in favour of it, John. And also, like I think with McGuire, you,

33:01what you get with McGuire is you do get a bit of air in the ability, particularly in our own box. But it's not worth as much as Martinez is passing. So I think for me, I'd be trying to get Yoro in there. And I'd be trying to do it as soon as possible. But I totally understand that Carrick obviously thinks that his best route to results is, is, is, is, is, is Martinez and McGuire. And they proved it last season that they can get results. The problem is that as long as that is the case, the changes that you're trying to make in the team much harder to do. And we keep seeing it. And we're going to keep seeing it where there's a lot of space in the field for whoever our opponent is because they don't, they can't squeeze. Very much so. So I think we see what, maybe four changes then, Yoro and Matt Rowey come into the side and Santos and Cesco, something like that. I'm not quite sure who drops out. Maybe Lacey comes back into the squad. The fact that Zerxie is in the squad and not Lacey, probably gives us an idea of what, what they think Lacey is level this.

34:02Yeah, I mean, technically I'm not worried about him. He's obviously superb technically, but yeah, is he physically up to, up to the speed of the, the Premier League yet? Is he a winger, really? Is he a right winger? If you can't go on the outside, is he a 10, really? I don't, I don't know the answer. I need to see more of him and more of him at eye level. Definitely played it quite a bit at 10 in preseason, in which case he's not getting in the team anytime soon, but they've kept him so, and I guess if he doesn't play much up until January, then they'll look for a loan because it's not any good for him to just be hanging around the squad. I'd be thinking about playing him on the right, but they won't because, and the only reason can be because they don't think he's up to it or they don't think he's either a ready or be ever going to be up to it. And I don't, he's not someone who I watch, I think you're definitely going to make it to the United. I can see that the stuff he's best at, he could be really high there for that, but in order to make it in the Premier League now, you have to, you have to have a bit more. And I don't know with, I don't know with him. I think ultimately, if you're asking me, do I think that Jay-Dacey is going to be a first-team player

35:05if you're not, I guess I'm leaning no. We'll see, I haven't seen enough of him in the first team yet to know how the adaptation is. He's definitely too good for the under 21s. I mean, there's the waste of time in playing there now, given the relative levels of intensity as well. It's not even good preparation for the first team. So yeah, I, I, he's waiting for me in the squad. I'm not expecting him to start necessarily, although I guess he could because there's no amad. In any case, yeah, I just need to get off to a, a good strong start. Because the other, the other seven games are none of them are gimmies. For sure, Roma are playing well. I'll, I'll be like, see, perhaps not what, what they were through four years ago, or that they've definitely better than they were two years ago. So this, this, and Biden, that's definitely not a gimmick. My, is it? Is it? It's a tough game, sir. Come out. Yeah. But again, those three sevens at the time, partly, it's because there's a lot of teams who aren't that different in levels, but also we're just not that good.

36:05So games seem hard. Indeed. Well, I guess that's about it. We have an interview with Dan Williamson, who's written a book called, If I hadn't seen such riches about the 1991 Cup winners Cup campaign, what do you remember about that year? Oh, no. I, I, I, it's all burned into my memory. It was a very enjoyable run that. Did you go to United versus Pesky Monkass? He really got away with it if it wasn't for those Pesky Monkass. I, I mean, I do remember the game. I think that was a run home from school because it was an, it was an afternoon game, which they're still, which they were still doing at that point. Yeah, Pesky Monkass, Rex, I mean, Rex, I'm in the European tie. My dad was actually in Warsaw on the day of that game, but he was taking school trips. So I mean, so near, but yet so far. But the shoes, the second gold in the, in the leg, you also are way there because one of my favourites. Sunbed from range as well.

37:05Have you seen some beds work on Twitter, by the way? It's, it's top stuff. I thoroughly entertain. He like replies to like all like the emails, do you prefer women a or women b? All the messages do prefer, and he's also like very, very, very right wing. There is, there is some of that. But I think he's actually an underrated hero of the early Fergie is sunbed. Like most of the good shit going on, he's involved. It's not just the state like the free kick in Montpellier, the save off the line, two won in the final. He is, he is an underrated hero of when the success started. He was a really very big part of that. Left back midfield. Right back sometimes. Just scored goals. Just the kind of player that you want in a squad who can do a number of things for you to a decent level and can get you goals. He was sort of almost like a James Milner of that day. Like I know Milner is in the field, but he played it for about rather than the other way around.

38:05But just he had a little bit of that about him I think. And yeah, I mean, obviously we're both just a little bit young for this. I mean, I remember these games, I was, I was, I was 12 in 1991. So I remember this very, very clearly, but it feels like felt like, but Rotterdam was a reward for the ads that were schlepping everywhere all over it during the really, really, really years. It's difficult for one everything. It was like, yeah, but now, now you've got this. And it's one of those where you're watching it thinking, oh my god, I wish I was there. And yeah, like, there's one of those where it's like, yeah, we're never, never getting that one back. I didn't go, I went to the final two league games that season, the way ones that Arsenal and Palace. I went after the win the league. They were champions and that was the day after they were champions. The celebration of Smith scores, the Hatchet Grimes, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So we're in the corner at Highbury there. And then most of the cellhouse park was full of reds, of course, for the next one.

39:06You wait, I think it's spurs at home for the final game, I'm pretty sure I was at that one. It was in the Cosloss game in England. It was and he got applauded off. Yeah, by the strep for dent. I was there. I think also because going back into Europe and winning a trophy, first up was incredible. Just an incredible thing because it's six years out of Europe. And we're back in Europe again, Dan. Oh, Segway. So if you're listening to this on the podcast apps, that interview with Daniel Williamson is coming up. And if you're watching us on YouTube, it'll be in a separate video. Check for the feed. Thanks a lot. Thanks, Dan. See ya. Dan Williamson author of Everhansean Search Riches. Welcome to no question about that. Thanks for having me, Ed. It's a line from James Song, of course, which was big. I guess around about the time of the cut-winds cut. You know, I see the just one, the FA Cup.

40:07It's the game that saves Ferguson's job in folklore. Martin Edwards, the former chairman, denies that. What kind of club are we thinking about in 1990? We're just about to go back into Europe for the first time in years, because of the Euro ban and lack of success and all of that. Club add-on won the league for more than 20 years at this point. It's not what he is today, but where were we at that time? Yeah, as you say, it was a completely different club, you know, before all of the success, before I guess the Premier League era kicked in and the Champions League and the riches that came with both of those. So, yeah, 22 years of that lead title. Definitely a different club. Obviously, you know, one of it's not the biggest club in the country and in terms of fan base and attendances, but not what we see today and Ferguson as well. So, going into that 1989-90 season, you mentioned Martin Edwards who said numerous times that his, you know, Ferguson's job wasn't on the line, but I can't see how it wouldn't have been on the line.

41:14You know, Ron Atkinson was one to FA Cup, some were sat and basically his crime was not winning the league. So, Ferguson winning FA Cup, not well, not winning the FA Cup. I can't see how he would have kept his job. Or he might have got one more year as sort of state of execution. And in fact, kind of what I'd discovered was that, you know, in most people's eyes winning the FA Cup didn't guarantee his job. It just, again, it just gave him an extra year, really. So, that's why I think the FA Cup and his Cup was so important because, again, I don't think it solidified him long term. I think he had to win the league to do that, but it really did kind of give him that maybe an 80-90% of the way there approval and give it to give him the time to then go on win the league because he showed that, you know, he won't load to trophies and off the border. And he showed that he could win two big trophies here, so he's probably worth giving more time. But yeah, definitely wasn't the kind of legend that he is today, obviously, and still improving down this, you know, self and the border at that point.

42:18I think the Cup and his Cup was pivotal for him as well as the Corband and the English football as a whole as well. Yeah, it kind of a breach between two eras in a way, wasn't it? The 1980s when United were largely unsuccessful except for the Cups, running to financial difficulties for going to talk about Marquies, ended up selling Marquies, partly, and a breach to the mega success that started in the year after, really. But also at the same time, you talk to your book about Manchester as a city and kind of place to the Cup, win this Cup, running in context. And this is like just before the sort of Manchester era, isn't it? And the Hacienda and all of that. Yeah, again, you know, speaking to people that were, I mean, I was, I was seven, sort of a seven, seven eight years old during that season. So, certainly wasn't in the Hacienda. But, you know, a lot of people were saying that the culture was the society was changing as well. You know, from sort of the 80s, you know, the doom and gloom of the 70s and the 80s and and that, you know, obviously a lot of hooliganism in football and the stadiums were falling apart.

43:26And, you know, obviously the disasters that happened and and just probably a bit bit of a grim couple of decades in many ways. And then you get the dawn of the 90s, you know, the World Cup in Italy, although it although it was a terrible sort of World Cup for football perspective with, you know, hardly any goals and loads of really horrendous tackles, thinking Cameroon, Cameroon inside and seeing us specifically. But it kind of changed the mood of the nation in a way and you know, gathers tears and I mean, in that obviously didn't win the World Cup. But when they came home, there was just a bit more of a upbeat feeling, I guess, about football and maybe that was a mirror on society as well. The people that I spoke to that were, you know, were sort of late teens and early 20s at the time were talking about how, you know, things like the Hacienda and just just the general kind of culture of going out. So, ecstasy was obviously a thing and people were more inclined to go out and have a good time rather than going going out looking to fight for fights and stuff.

44:34So, that also shone through with the final as well, where I mean, I'm jumping ahead a little bit, but, you know, how there wasn't really any trouble for the final, you know, in Rotterdam, people were probably spaced out on whatever. And what I was angry maybe is a bit more optimistic, that was one of the words that came out as well. Yeah. A bit more optimism in society and culture that kind of shone through in the football as well. World Cup Italian 90 England, you know, success, relative success. And then obviously united winning the Cup and his Cup and just going on from there, really, the birth of the Premier League. So, I do, yeah, I do think it was kind of a court between those areas, sort of the 70s, 80s. And then we got that two or three year period before the Premier League and the Champions League kind of become huge. Yeah. So, you know, the end of the old school and the start of the new school. I think that's right. I mean, of course, you know, in the final, the Ibeat Barcelona, which is going to be Croix's great team that went to the European Cup of the year afterwards. And I'm wondering about the kind of psychology of the team during this run, not quite sure of the way of putting it, but low key start, you know, play Pishy Monkass and not anything glamorous.

45:42In fact, quite there's quite a few teams in this run, but I'm glamorous at all. Really? I mean, racing, man. You know, you couldn't be any less glamorous. Is there at some point it goes from, oh, we're back in Europe. This is a new thing to hang on a minute. We might actually win a big European trophy. What moment do we start thinking about that? I would probably say the quarter final against Montpellier that winning the second leg there. I think that's when you start to really think that something's possible here. Obviously, the first two rounds are just there to be navigated. I think Fogson quite said quite often and definitely said it when he was in Scotland as well that he wanted to be in the half post Christmas. And that was kind of like the minimum expectation. Make sure you're in the half to Christmas and you give yourself a chance. And so obviously the first two rounds relatively easy. But you have to be they have to be done to get you in the half in the quarter final. So Montpellier was probably the hardest test aside from the final.

46:43And the first leg didn't go too well. Lee Martin scored no goal. It was one one. Montpellier had the away goal, which was, you know, back in the away goal days was quite a big big deal. And many people thought that was it that the United couldn't go there and win against a good side. One one during this in particular was sort of talking about how this shows the naivety of English clubs, you know, missing from Europe for five years. Asden Villa, I think we're already out at that stage of the UEFA Cup. So it was like, OK, this is where English interests La Ther Ends in Europe this season. Obviously United went to went to France and got a really good win to know when. And yeah, I think that's when you start to really think that we can do something here. Obviously, then when the semifinal gets drawn, Barcelona and Juventus draw each other and you need a bit of luck in the draw and leisure or sort, you know, they won't complete mugs or anything, but, you know, if you're going to pick one of the three, you would certainly pick the Polish team. Yeah, that Montpellier game is the one, isn't it? I mean, playing Blackmore scores.

47:45I can brew Scott the other penalty sunbed as the court. And Blackmore was never really a leftback, but had been kind of shoved over to left back by Fergie. He played everywhere, didn't he? Yeah, yeah. I mean, he did in midfield and all of that. Yeah, so I mean, still a sort of personality, Blackmore is. I think he does a few of the legends games and that kind of stuff as well. Do you have to think about Ferguson as well at this time? Because I mean, he wins in Europe this time out. But after that comes years and years of pain and missing out. I guess I'm asking how the hell they had to put this in context of Ferguson's learning. I mean, this is obviously a lesser competition, right? He played a great side in the final, but up until the all that point, not so much. Yeah, he's strange, isn't it? Because you kind of, you expect to, you know, if you win a European trophy. And then the Coppen is called was, you know, yes, it was probably, well, it was the easiest of the three to win. It was still a big deal. You know, you don't expect them to win it and then suspend eight years trying to, you know, reach the pinnacle.

48:49So yeah, I do remember as well, you know, from the 90s, long time ago. But yeah, they're the feeling at times that, you know, is Ferguson ever going to do this? And as you say, you know, there were many kind of backward steps along the way as well. You know, Galatasaray, you know, he's losing to Gothenburg, losing 4-0 against Barcelona. Yeah, you mentioned Trezege and the Dortmund semifinals in 97. The work question marks about Ferguson when they're like, you know, can he, can he do it? And obviously he did in 99 and 1-0 in the 90th minute. It could have either way. And then what happened if Ferguson hadn't won that final? Yeah, thankfully he did and the rest is history. But I mean, some people still do think down there. I don't know whether that's just opposition fans mainly, but people say that, you know, two European cups of Ferguson won in his time. Wasn't he not? You know, I mean, he won the league, he first won the league 20 years before he left and two European cups in 20 years. I don't know if that's, that's like I said, I don't know if that's just opposition fans talking, but...

49:52I think there's unfair on Ferguson in a way because for a lot of that time, of course, they will see the foreigners rule, which included Scots and Irish. And what's the Irish in English football was a Modulus won for so much at that time that the Scots' Welsh and Irish were part of the same thing. It's not being disrespectful. I mean, it's just where the best players would end up heading at that time. And Ferguson had to, in many of these European came aides afterwards like drop players, like drop Michael. Yeah. That Barcelona game, I think, comes in our own Michael, the sat in the stands. I think that's probably the one isn't it, that 1914 had before in a rule not been in place. You know, could that team have gone on the European cup possibly? There was a lot of stiff competition, that was the best Ferguson team, wasn't it? Yeah. And this 91 side wasn't that. I mean, you had some characters that would become part of that team. I mean, I've seen 94 McLare end up in midfield. Hughes is still there in 94.

50:52I mean, 91, he's come back from Barcelona. There's a little bit actually because I'm a little too close to Goals in the final. And it means a lot to the club and the fans, I think. And he's gone away to Barcelona, didn't quite work out for a year at Bayern Munich. And he's back at United. The kind of talent is really scoring incredible goals. Interestingly, you know, he wasn't in the, I don't think it was the first game that he wasn't in the starting line up for. And he only scored his first goal in the cup and his cup in the semi-final. So McLare scored in the first four rounds, so all the way up to the semi-finals. And then didn't score in the final. Hughes scored in the semi-final. And then the fact too in the final. So kind of slow to get going with the, with the cup in his cup that season. Yeah. And he had a bit of a points prove, really. He, he denies that he was trying to get revenge on Barcelona specifically. Perfect, protecting it, protecting this for that game, though, isn't he? Yeah. But I think more, I think, more so probably the fans and then even more so, the media, the Spanish media that didn't really give him a fair crack at the whip.

51:52You know, he was a young, young, glad, really in a foreign country. The care that he received wasn't anything like he would get today. You know, he's got left to fend for himself in a foreign country. The style of, the style of players didn't suit Spanish football. He picked up more bookings than he scored goals. So he kind of went into that final with, you know, without not revenge per se, but a point to prove if you like. Yeah, I think especially with the second goal, you know, you can't do it any better than that, can you? One of the most iconic goals, I would say, in United's modern history, for sure. Brilliant one, no, replayed over and over. I had a shirt, the white shirt, which you know, I'd only worn one. So I haven't got it with me anymore. I don't know where I've lost it, but I will have to get a replica at some point. Yeah, I've got a pixel one of the replicas a year or two ago. And I've got the original as well in the loft. And yeah, the new one is a lot wider than the old one. It's like it's like it's got a weird yellow. I must have been playing all sorts and, you know, rolling around in the mud in it, or something, but I'm sure.

52:52Yeah, it's a treasured momento that that's here. And I got the one sort of, I don't know if you've released it before the final, but after the final, they must have, you know, the badge was on it that said winners as well. So those old shirts, if people don't remember, they're not like the fabric of today. You wouldn't want to sit too near a heat source, that's for sure. As today, there's a lot of sacellers outside. The last two games of the United, the last two away games were at Arsenal. And Palace and I picked up at one at the Arsenal game, which United lost to the eventual champions that year. And it was like your European cup with all the games on it and stuff like that. I'm sure I have that somewhere. I think my mum has it from when I was like a teenager, speaking off to games. I'm telling you a bit about the clash between these sides. So for the final where you've got Ferguson side learning how to win. I mean, the one you fake out, they're going to win this as well, but they're not a great side yet. Was it finishing the league that year? Seek something like that? Yeah. And then a bustle on the side that's undercruise that's about to become European champions.

53:55Yeah. And they've just won the league as well. Yeah, about to be a great side against the United. There's something over Clash Day United definitely weren't favourites for this game. Yeah, no, definitely weren't favourites. And you know, Barcelona, they weren't there. Yeah, it would probably another year or two before they were really lauded as I mean, the one the European cup 12 months later. But yeah, probably 90, around 94, especially when the dismount of United probably when people would say that they peaked. And they weren't missing three key plays for the final, but still. They were still favourites. They were still heavy favourites. They were underdogs and Fogsson was underdogs with Aberdeen against Real Madrid in 83 as well. And I think he kind of liked that as well. And kind of in public played that up behind closed doors. Obviously he was confident and bullish, but in the public he was sort of talking quite differentially about Christ and Barcelona. And I read that, but in both occasions, he took like a really fancy bottle of scotch with him to give to the managers.

54:55So in 83, this Stefano was the manager and obviously Christ and handed it over almost as if to say like that you're in or of them, you know, given them a gift sort of showing that deferential treatment and almost kind of psychologically allowing them to think that he's in or of you and just little kind of Fogs and tricks like that to sort of try and gain a bit of an upper hand. So yeah, he had word definitely underdogs going into that game, but watching it back really, you know, it wasn't a smash and grab. I thought you'd had with a better team for good sort of 75 minutes. Seele was hopping around on one leg essentially. Didn't really have anything to do. So it was definitely a deserved win. I think you know, rode a little bit of a storm in the last 10, 50 minutes and there they got all this allowed and back more clear. So back more clear, one after line. Yeah. And then Cooom and gets his free kick, but on the whole, I thought it was a deserved win and you know, and it was good for some good football played as well. You know, the third goal obviously was a free kick and a set piece and maybe a typically English goal, but the second one was really in pass from Robson.

56:03And then that finish from Hughes, which was just a legendary finish that I think only Hughes only Hughes could have pulled off. You know, the combination of accuracy and power, you know, a lot of other players would have tried to would have handled that situation differently. Now I think only Hughes could have scored that goal. And watch the game since Covid times. So during lockdown, we did a whole bunch of retro pods. But yeah, I think you're right. As I remember it, United played really well. Unlike the 99 final where United were crap. Yeah, you take it anyway, it comes down to you in a final, but it was nice to sort of say, you know, I'll play the Barcelona team really. Yeah, they had their moments of possession, like likely tend to do, but just didn't really do anything with it. Yeah, if you strip away everything that United became later in the 1990s, I mean, this was something of an announcement to Europe, English clubs are back. Because, you know, for context, a lot of people watching listening won't remember English clubs have been for five years after high salt.

57:03And so this is the first season back. And it's an announcement of United on the global stage again, which I'll see we've been kind of secluded on our little island for years before that. Yeah, I mean, as you mentioned before, didn't necessarily kickstart like a, you know, period of English dominance. I know Arsenal think Arsenal won the cup in his cup twice in the 90s. You know, English clubs did end up dominating Europe again. Although you got by Munich and Real Madrid and PSG, et cetera. Now I want to sort of main forces in Europe. But yeah, no, it was it was it was a big moment for English football, thrown on from the World Cup and just rebuilding that negative image that had been built up over the sort of 80s and 70s to say, yeah, English clubs are back with, you know, the fans of behaving on on the whole. And you know, we can compete as well at the top of European football. And we haven't lost a lot during those years. You know, we're not miles behind on tactical trends and things like that. So, yeah, I thought it was pivotal for English football and, you know, Premier League came a year later after this, you know, what would have happened to the sort of Premier League and its brand had United fans or Villa fans in the UEFA Cup had they run a mock that season.

58:16We'll never know, but, you know, you could you could argue that had that happened. Would the Premier League have happened or how would it have developed differently? So, you know, it was important. Yeah, no, I think that's right. And this this built on not only English footballs reputation and the fans reputation, this this campaign and United playing well and winning and, you know, fans not writing in the streets and more pay. So, something like that, but also for the sense of, you know, winning around the club, right? This is a club that was down on its knees in the 80s for a lot of the time. And here, here, folks, and there's one, two trophies in a row. I guess we didn't know at the time. It didn't feel inevitable at all. Yeah, no, definitely not from this vantage point. Now we can go always inevitable. The person was going to win everything, but it didn't feel like it at the time. So, this felt like something pretty special. It's actually a manager that can win two trophies in two years, including, well, two trophies in little over 12 months, including a European trophy against Barcelona.

59:16You got to sort of say that that's impressive. And but yeah, again, as you say, no one could predict what would happen in the next in the next sort of 20 years. No, no chance. And I think it was only, obviously, the league could follow the next season and the European supercught, but it was the league title really that solidified him in his position. You say that as well though, like, you know, two years later in night, some of night five people are questioning him again because of the, you know, not winning a trophy that season. So, in some hues and conchalcus. Yeah, it is interesting. It's brought up so often that that poll of the night fans, I think it was in the MEN wasn't it? Wanting to get rid of Fergie because he sold in Kirin McGuire, the football finance person runs a table of like football inflation, right? Compared to the amount of money, it would be well over 100 million. So I got a good deal of it. Yeah, that's right. And at the time in the mid 90s, but of course that was when he was building his second great side, I guess.

1:00:16Yeah, but what inspired you to write this book of all the moments in the United's history? So a couple of things. I mean, my first three books were all about South American football. And I wanted to do something a bit closer to home, a bit more enjoyable to research. Some kind of this not in, you know, different languages and stuff like that. And, you know, a lot less niche than some of the things that have been researching in the past. And also obviously whenever I've written books before, he's also trying to find a bit of a niche and find an idea that hasn't been done before. I kind of was looking around and there isn't a book about the cup in his cup. And I was really surprised by that. Amazing. Sometimes you sometimes you think, is there a reason why there isn't a book? Or is that a great idea to do one? So anyway, I decided it was a latter. There's nothing out there. I mean, obviously you've got, you know, plays autobiographies. I know Andy Metin's done a couple of books on the 80s and the 90s, which I haven't touched on as well. But there isn't one specific book all about this campaign. So I thought there's a good idea. And, you know, for me, it was like I was, you know, seven in 1990s.

1:01:21It was FA Cup Final, the World Cup kind of that summer. And my first real memories of football, right. And I kind of fell in love with it. And 90, the 1991 season was was my first season of kind of following football week to week and knowing what was going on and understanding it. It was kind of like a, you know, a key milestone, I guess, in my childhood. I got the white shirt after the final of my first replica shirt. August 91, the first game in the league, the following season against not scounty. That was my first game, old trufford. So just kind of just kind of felt like that was the era that I started falling in love with football and, and, you know, becoming a boyhood united fan. So, yeah, just felt felt felt right and felt like a good idea. Just enjoyable, just going back and watching all footage and, you know, digging out all the autobiographies and stuff like that. So really enjoyable process for me. What was the process of coming up with the name for the book? So you've landed on a line from a James song. You know, I've been wanting this to just be a football book that was, you know, a bit old today, this goal went in and this this and this.

1:02:28I wanted it to be about, you know, place the football into the wider context them. So, so, you know, I'm doing things like looking at what happened on this day in 1990 and, you know, just sort of going back and seeing what was going on in society. And then I kind of ended up stumbling, stumbling on the music charts as well. And I have one of my ideas initially was that every chapter was going to be named after a song that was in the in the charts that year, the landing quite pan out because I couldn't get forced, forced the names of the songs into the into the subjects. But, but I went when I saw James and obviously James, that James song was was huge at the time. It was played after the final in the stadium on the PA system and all the fans and the players are singing along to it. So it's kind of is important from that point of view. It was a really trevil and song. And I just I just felt there was something about the title that really resonated and some of the lyrics as well. You know, if you read the lyrics and kind of the idea of a lot of United

1:03:32United, I'm just seeing a lot of riches over the years and, you know, have now having to deal with, you know, being relatively poor. If you like, compared to most clubs, obviously it's yeah, make a successful book in in relative terms. The last 10 years compared to the sort of previous 20 years for yeah, different story. So that's kind of how I stumbled on it. And yeah, I do like that tile and quite happy with that tile. And it seems to have gone down quite well. And yeah, just kind of places the book in the era as well, I think. Of course, United back in Europe this season after missing out we have to why do we miss out because of the fucking spurs in the final European final. That's the worst of all of them. Let's see. I was terrible final. Wasn't it can't get over it yet. How much do you know about as a by Johnny football since you like writing on niche football topics? No, that niche. No, that is the answer is absolutely nothing. Yeah, I didn't even know where they were from, to be honest, and yeah, I did, I did, I did, I did here that they were what eight years old or something like that.

1:04:35So no, nothing about them. And I expect to win on first night. Yeah, let's hope so. Yeah, I don't expect United to win the Champions League this year. You'd probably say a quarter final you'd be happy with maybe again to a quarter final. Just have to see how it pans out with this new former because you'd really have actually I think if you're finishing the top 24 you've got you've got a chance of going through to the last 16 if you win a playoff quite complicated isn't it, but it isn't a bit. I think I would expect I would expect maybe quarter finals last 16 I think quarter finals will be OK. Very good. And what were your other works on South America before we leave us just touch on those a little bit. I did the first English language history of Bocca Juniors. That was really well received and even though it's quite niche did quite well. The second one was the niche the niche is if that's a word. So it was about the ins consul mental cup. Do you remember the ins consul mental cup and I do United United played in it in against Palmaera's in Tokyo. So that I did that that was that was very niche but again really enjoyable and a fascinating story as well of that competition and then my third one was about Ronaldo Brazilian Ronaldo that was a biography.

1:05:45The world couple of biographies about Ronaldo but they were 20 25 years ago and the kind of focus still on the gossip around him and there is love life and stuff like that. I wanted to do one that was just about the football and celebration of what a great play was. What a player. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he was I think for me he was like the first non united or England. I kind of supported England at the time. The first non united England hero that I had you know in football like I remember getting Barcelona shirt when he went there. I got the inter shirt when he went there. And yeah, I just absolutely loved him. I thought he was brilliant player. I thought he was fantastic. So yeah, that was nice to really lives kind of for my youth and you know go back and watch all the old games and watch some of these goals back and some of these skills. So yeah, but yeah, I can say I wanted to do something a bit closer to him for my fourth book. One of my regrets is I missed out on a river plate versus Bocca game when I was in Buenos Aires. I ran right through the streets the day before the game and it was called off.

1:06:51Oh, was that the Cop of Liberty Dora as one? You know what it probably was. Yes, so we're all getting well here was it. This would have been 20, 2018, yeah, the right of the Liberty Dora is one that got a band that got cancelled and then it moved to Madrid. I also got in trouble for I spent a lot of time abroad as long time listeners of this pod will know I did a lot of traveling and recording from weird places. I was also supposed to get a Tigrez versus million hours in Bogota. Local head of our office told on me to H.R. saying yeah, he's going to get stabbed. Thanks. Thanks. Well, I will go check out your other books on South American football and the Intercontinental Cup as well. Dan Williamson, author of If I haven't seen such riches about the 1991 Cup winners Cup campaign and early 90s football culture. Very much appreciate you coming on the show. Yeah, thanks for having me.