Two Larabars, Pepperoni, and 900 Kilometers Unsupported

0:00I have a huge announcement. I have a fun game coming. So if you go to FreeOutside.com, there is an outdoor March Madness bracket. So we're going to have a contest. We're going to see which outdoor aspect is going to win. So go there, fill out your bracket, how you think it's going to go. It's all on the website. I created it. It was a ton of work. And we have a bunch of prizes. So there's going to be a grand prize for who picks out the best bracket. And how will the matches be decided, you ask? Well, I'm going to tell you. So there's a link on there. And on Google form, you can vote on each matchup. And so we're going to go round by round all of March and see which outdoor aspect wins, prizes, raffles, all this stuff along the way. I've been putting way too much work into this. But the world is crazy. And we need something fun because we're not going to talk politics here. So I created this bracket on the website. It's submit. So I'm going to put a leaderboard up. You can follow

1:03FreeOutside podcast on Instagram or come back to the show every time I release one. And we'll talk about the leaderboard. We're going to do an episode with bracketology on breaking down the aspects. Some of the examples of the matchups that we have are we have like the trail region. So that would be like the Appalachian trail. We have the problems region. I would be like different issues that you might have on the trail. Maybe blisters, mud, wrong turn, mosquitoes, chafing, post-holing. Then we have the snack region, which I think is going to be a fun one to see what people choose. We have peanut M&Ms, running gels, paydays, Oreos, traumics. And it's very much like March Madness, where the one seed is versus the 16 seed. So in the trail region, the one seed is the Appalachian trail. And that is facing off against the 16 seed, the Timberline trail. So fill out your bracket. How you think people are going to vote. We will crown a winner. It will be fun. I think we're going to take until the true national championship game for college basketball

2:06because I am a fan and everyone loves brackets. So the voting each round, it's listed on the website. But each round will be a few days. You can vote each round and then come back and vote for the next round and keep being entered to win prizes and stuff and raffles. We have race entries to give away. We have products, gift cards. We have all kinds of fun stuff. And so all you have to do now is fill out your bracket. Freeoutside.com. There's I'll put a link down below. But if you just hit freeoutside.com or Google free outside March Madness bracket, you will find it. And it will be fun. So the four regions, we have trail region. So we're going to pick the trail that comes out of that. We have snack region. We have problem region and gear region. And so what I think is going to be really fun is once we get to a final four, it will be a trail against a gear item

3:07in a snack against a problem region. And then whoever wins those two matchups will be in the final. So we might have a snack against a trail. And how will voting go? Nobody knows. It's so random, but it'll be so fun. So lots of fun prizes. It'll be it'll be really fun and just put in your your choices for how it's going to go and vote on Google Forms. It's all open right now and it will be open until next Wednesday for submitting a bracket and voting will continue through early April. Okay, that is my big announcement today on the podcast. I've been fascinated and I've coach an athlete who's been fascinated and Jeff Snyder who is on the podcast in the month of Jeff about how far people can go unsupported. And so I talk to Cody Taylor who has done the Bruce trail in the international app latch and trail unsupported and he's doing the out and back of the long trail unsupported. And we just talk some things like that. I thought it was pretty interesting to

4:11get into that and just kind of hear what he has to say about doing such long things unsupported. I personally have done the Colorado trail unsupported, which was about what is it 500 miles or so. I think it took nine days. So I have some experience, but it was a really fun conversation. I hope you enjoy it. We've kind of ventured a little bit more into trail, but we're in a, I don't know, a little low and ultra running, but thanks for sticking here no matter what discipline you're into and remember to get those March madness brackets in. All right, here is Cody Taylor. Today on the free outside podcast, we have on a guest who's done a lot of unsupported long-distance stuff and has quite a journey to getting there. Today we have Cody Taylor. Did I pronounce that right? It's not good. Yeah, so how would you describe yourself? What have you done in the last couple of years?

5:12Well, I mean like I like like during the pandemic, I started running and then like I remember like in 2023, like I had this crazy goal. Like obviously a man during the pandemic, I think a lot of people I got into running was like really influenced heavily influenced by David Goggins and like, you know, love him or hate him. He had a time and a place for me personally. So, you know, obviously now I look, I see his content and sometimes it makes me laugh, but man, he's the reason why like I went from like being able to shape to like start a running and whatnot. And like 2023, I ran the Atacama Desert Chili with my coach, Razahab and Ray was the one that introduced me. He's like a, he's a legend in the endurance community and he's one that kind of introduced the idea of doing these big trails. And it talked about unsupported briefly. And I remember like he talked about like five trails, but the first one he talked about was the Bruce trails 900 kilometers. And I'm like, okay, so then I then I just 2024, I bought all my gear. I never, I never even camped out really before. Like I never did any backpacking or anything like that. So I had like four or five weekends

6:12of train for this trail. And then yeah, I just kind of went for it in 2024. Wow. So no experience, you just went for a 900 kilometer unsupported adventure. Yeah. So like I bought all my gear. And then like I live like great, like I'm on the border of the state. So I was going upstate New York and training the Adirondacks a lot. And, and then like I was just doing big weekends there. Because at the time, right now I'm doing online coaching, but at the time I was doing in-person coaching. So I only had weekends to go out and do these things. So I had like, I like I said, I had like four or five weekends where like I did two massive days and one night of camping. And then my, my biggest like overnight adventure was like I, I sculpted out the Bruce trail, but like in the Tobermory section. And I did from like Tobermory all the way to Owen Sound. And that was 240 K. I did, I did like three nights, four days. It was very, very technical over there. And, and yeah, man, just kind of like I had like my, my, my camping just kind of, it was testing out my gear and whatnot. And just, it was my first like multi-day adventure. So, and then like a

7:15week later, I just went out and got after down the Bruce trail. So, so what did you like about it? What was, what drew you in after the, the first time being out there? Because some people would be like, yeah, this isn't for me. Yeah, I honestly, man, it's, it's, you're just not, like, there's no distractions. Like you're, you're so into and with what you're doing. Like, you know, I find sometimes like, you know, with running, it's like, you know, I got a lot of voices going on my head sometimes. And like the first couple hours of my run, they'll be like, I still got those voices in my head. But then by the third hour, I'm like dialed in, you know, so it's like whenever you do these adventures, especially when you're on your own, on your own for like two weeks, it's like, man, you come out of it a different person. And I say this all the time, but like, you know, it's just like you get back home and you just appreciate everything more like just, you know, like water out of the tap. Yeah, stupid things like this. Or it's just like, you know, sleeping your own bed, you know, and eating, eating real good food. It's like, I don't know, man, I really think these adventures, doing hard things is really, it's really kind of brings,

8:15I don't know, like it makes you appreciate things more in life, you know? So yeah. So what's the progression? When do you start running for the first time? When do you decide to get a coach? And then it sounds like it kind of took off from there. But how did you even decide to make running or trails in general a part of your life? Um, so like, I'll kind of give you my whole back story real quick. But like, like I was a musician, like I was, I was a drummer and I was touring all of the North America. And like, I, that was my whole dream. And like, that was my, that was my goal in life was to become like a touring professional musician. And you know, my last band, we got signed to a major label. And I remember like the pandemic hit. And I was really, I was really kind of struggling with the idea of continuing, continuing, continuing with the, with the musician, being a musician because like, I was with my wife since, I've been with my wife since I was 16. We bought a house. Um, you know, like I, I started my age fact company at the time. I'm out of heating, cooling now. But like I had, I started having like things that were like

9:17working in my favor. And like being a musician, even though we were signed to a major label, like, it's still, it doesn't mean that we're just going to be like rich out of nowhere. It's like, it's still a grind. I'm still going to be broke. I'm living out the road. And it's tough having a wife that you care about a lot and then being on the road for, you know, three quarters of the year. So that would be better if you didn't care about your wife. Yeah. Well, I, I always said, I always said, man, it's like people that thrived on the road, being a touring musician, had a broken home life. They didn't have a good family and they didn't have a good wife. And I had a great, I have a great family and I have a great wife. So it's like, it was really hard for me when I would go on tour to, to leave the people that I love most, you know, so whenever the pandemic hit, like I, I started running and I remember like the adrenaline rush I was getting from running was almost the same feeling as what I would feel whenever I played in front of thousands of people. Like I had the opportunity to play after like death leopard and stuff like that. So I, I had, I had these opportunities to play in front of thousands of people and like, but the amount of work it takes to, to get to that, that point to play in front of all those people and like, you know,

10:22touring, you're sleeping out of a van, you're working with a bunch of dudes that are also dirt bags. You know, it's like, it's like everything you're doing is just like, it's a lot of hard work for that 30 minutes of performance. And then with running, it's like, you could put on your shoes, lace up, go out the door and do it anytime of the day. So I really fell in love with the sport of running during the pandemic. And like, so I mean, I'm kind of like an all-in kind of attitude. And like whenever 2020 hit, I couldn't run 5K. And then two months later, I somehow, I had a advanced book bag with like a three liter water bladder and just a couple of cliff bars and I ran 40K. And then like, I, I progressed the year after to like, doing all treas. And then I started like, I started like, touring the line for like, these 100 mile races. And then yeah, man, like a 2023, that's whenever I, I reached out to my now coach, Razahab. And I just kind of like, because that's what I always did. I always tried to surround myself with the people that are doing the things that I want to do. And Ray was very, very kind. He got on the phone with me. And then next thing you know,

11:22I was signed up to go to the out of Comma Desert with him in November 2023. So when, when he saw me running out there down there, sorry, he just, I, I think he saw that I had a big engine. He saw that like, I'm not the fastest guy. So he knew I was going to get podium ever. So he's like, if you really want to move the needle, he's like, you should check out these big unsported, like kind of trails like this idea of doing things unsported. So I don't know, man, it's like, if it wasn't for Ray, I wouldn't be doing these things. Like, I'd even know anything about the Bruce trail. I didn't know anything about the international application trail I just did. You know what I mean? So it's like, I'm so new to this whole sport that I'm still discovering these things now. Yeah. What is, what does it feel like to play in front of thousands of people to play music? Try to describe it. Dude, it's a rush, man. Like, I, you, you black out. You totally black out. But then, but then whenever you get like, like, it's, it's a dream. You know, you get off, you get off your drums. I remember, like, after that one show, like, I saw this girl take her top off. So that's real wild. So, you know, it's like, I'm sitting there. I'm like, throw my sticks out of the crowd. I'm like,

12:23man, like, this is a dream I've had since I was a 12 year old kid when I first started playing drums. And now I'm doing it. So, but it's crazy because like, I did these shows. I did these major festivals. And it's like, that became my new normal. I'm like, well, it's just like, you got a taste of it. Now you just, you think it's just going to continue. But then all of a sudden, the pandemic hit, and then music was stripped away from me. So it's like, yeah, is it sort of like, to make money and music, you have to do live shows. And that's why the pandemic stripped it away. Yeah. Yes. Yes. For sure. Because back in the day, like, you could sell albums, right? But now everything's streamed on Spotify and everything. And like, you know, merch, uh, it, do being a tour musician. Like, I played with a lot of bands, um, that like are really like, have a big name for themselves. And are still like, I remember this one band, particularly. I'm not going to drop their name, but like, they were, they were huge. They were already banned for like 15 years. And I remember I talked to the band members and they said they're pulling in a hundred bucks a night like for themselves because they had a tour bus. They had management. They had old team that's working for them. So it's like, by the time you pay everything off, it's like, you're only pocketing a hundred bucks per night. So it's like, it's just man. I don't know,

13:27man. Like, I think my goal in life right now is to, I want, I want to create a successful business and then do things on my own dime and my, like, my own doing, you know, like, I don't want to be, I don't, I don't know. I don't want to be really a walking billboard. I don't want to be like doing things for other people. I kind of want to just like, make my own money and do these trails and do my own thing. You know what I mean? Yeah, totally. Is it, was it hard to kind of move on from music since it was a lifelong dream? For sure, man. It was one of the toughest pills high at the swallow basically. Like, I, I, I remember jumping on the call with my bandmates and I'm like, I was like, I don't cry. And I, I'm not very often. And like, I was nearly in tears. I was like, it was, it was such a hard thing to do. Um, but uh, it was crazy because like, I even got like my guitar player, which has been a good buddy of mine for a while. He actually, at the same conversation, he quit as well because like, we were both feeling the same way without even talking to each other. We both felt the same way and we, we both ended up leaving the band. The pandemic band was a tough time for a lot of people. I think it made people realize like, you know,

14:30what they were doing currently wasn't, wasn't good enough or they wanted a change, you know. So it was, uh, it was a, it was a shitty time for a lot of people, obviously, uh, you know, for some people, it was life changing, like literally, um, for me, like, you know, obviously, uh, I was very lucky. Like, I didn't have any family members, uh, like, affected by COVID or anything, but, um, yeah, it just gave me that time to really reflect on what I want to do in life. And, uh, and yeah, now I run this business with my wife and I'm very happy. And I'm doing something where it's like, it's in my control because the thing is too, Jeff, is that when you're in a band, you're dealing with four or five other guys. So it's like, let's just say if you got a, a tour booked, it's like, you got to be on the same page with those four or five other guys. With me right now, it's like, I'm gonna, I'm doing, I told you like, like I said on messenger, like, I'm gonna do this long trail in August. Like, that's me doing that. That's me planning it and the only thing that's gonna hold me back is me, you know what I mean? So that's what's, that's what's cool about, uh, doing these, these solo adventures. And then I, unsupported, you know, what I like, but unsupported is that there's no logistics to it. It's like,

15:32okay, like for sure you have to pack the food. Like, there's some thought behind it, but I don't have to have a crew or anything. It's like, you just have to get dropped off and then get picked up at the other end. You know what I mean? So I think, I think that's what's really cool about the unsupported stuff there. And like, you know, like what you did there on the Appalachian Trail, like, bro, like honestly, congrats. Like, uh, it's, it's honestly a real honor for me to be here right now. It's, uh, I really look up to you as an athlete and, uh, it was really cool that you reached out to me like this. Well, I reached out to you, but you got back to me, which is, which is really cool, man. So thank you. Yeah, totally. Let's dive into kind of the unsupported stuff. So how do you plan out your, I guess let's start from the beginning. When you decide on a trail, how do you break it up? How do you incorporate nutrition? How do you plan all these things? Cause, um, I've done about 500 miles unsupported. So I think it'd be kind of fun to just, uh, have a conversation about how you break it down and, and plan for something. Cause it's so much further than most people consider for an unsupported adventure. Yeah. I mean,

16:33dude, I'm still trying to figure it out. Like, on, uh, on that Bruce trail, the 900K, I actually, this is crazy story, man. So I, uh, like I packed, uh, I packed like food that I, that I could stomach and my, my food, my, my per day of food bag was two and a half pounds, which I could get that lighter now, um, like now with a bit more experience. And I got another guy, his name's James and Han. I'm going to talk to you about him soon as well. He's kind of been coaching me as well with this whole long trail stuff. And he's got, he's, he drove me up a, uh, a list of what I should pack for my food days. And we got down to like 1.75 pounds per day. But on the Bruce trail, I, uh, I, I expected it. I'm like, you know what? I'll probably do this in about two weeks. So I packed like 14 days, uh, two and a half pounds a day, uh, for over a bit over 4,000 calories, uh, a day. And my coach told me it's like the first, first so many days, like if you don't eat all of your food, just throw it out. It's like, it's just out of weight. So I did that. And then, and then on the back half of that trip, I realized I'm like, Oh, shit, like I'm running out of food. So I ended up doing like, I ended up doing like the last 100 miles with a, like, I think I had like two

17:37lair bars and a, and a pocket full of pepperoni. And I ended up like running, like it was like the last hundred K. I literally just had put pepperoni and, and I lost like 30 pounds in that adventure. So like I did like a 50 hour push with like a few dirt naps and like, like no food. And it was crazy that I threw out food in the beginning of the trip. So, uh, yeah. So like the plan, the plan behind, like, you know, to the nutrition and all that, like I figured out whenever I'm doing my training, uh, I really, like what I was doing for the last couple of trails is like high calorie dense bars, but like that you could read in the gradients on. So it's like a layer of bars, like three ingredients, right? Um, I do a dehydrated meal every night. Uh, and then I would do like, I didn't, I didn't really pack too much candy last trip. I think I packed like eight fuzzy peaches. Um, I focused more on like fats, like pepperoni and stuff like that. Um, yeah, man, I don't know, like the last two last two trails were a little bit different. And then this trail that I'm going to be doing, uh, the long trail, like I'm going to be packing more like, uh,

18:37macadamia nuts and nuts like that. Like stuff that's like like lighter and weight, but high calorie. So yeah, two layer bars and a pocket and a pocket full of pepperoni sounds like a good song title. Right. Yeah. But do you know how many calories a day you're, you're packing roughly? Well, so this is what I'm going to say. Like, so I find, I find the last two adventures. One thing I realize, uh, because I usually kind of fatten up right before the trip. So I could go the first like three days with like, honestly, man, I don't eat much. I'm pretty good. I could probably get away with like three thousand calories a day. And I'm, I'm moving for like 12 to 14 hours a day. Uh, but I can't get away with that because like, I do, I do pack on quite a bit of weight right beforehand. And then, uh, and then after that, usually I'm, it's about four thousand calories a day. So yeah, that's what I'm probably going to do to save a bit of weight. Next trip is like, try to like, bring down the calories for the first few days. Okay. Yeah. Do you, so do you pack each day individually? Like, how do you separate out calories? So you know, how much to eat each day? Yeah. I, I, I pack it separately. It's all in a Ziploc bag. Last year,

19:41I did, um, I, I vacuum sealed each bag because like where I was last year, there was a lot more moose and black bear. Like I, I, there was more moose than there was, were people out on that trail. So I was like, I was really worried about like, you know, just critters coming up to my tent at night and stuff like that. So I figured vacuum sealing the bags would be a, um, maybe a good fit for that trail. But I didn't really enjoy it. I didn't really like the vacuum sealed packs because like, it kind of made it into like a brick. So there, there was no flexibility in the bags whenever you're trying to stuff your backpack. You know what I mean? So I don't know. That was one thing I learned. Yeah. And then do you know which day you're eating which food or do they're all that you want? Okay. They're all, they're all the same. Really. They're all the same. And I don't really think too much about like of it there. Like every day, like I try to throw in maybe a little bit of different variety, but I don't know. I'm pretty good, man. Like like in terms of like what I could stomach, I'm pretty, pretty rock solid with that with my nutrition. And like, you know, like, it's crazy. I know it sounds like a long feet. Like, but I, in the grand scheme of things, like two weeks is not that long. You know what I mean? It's like, I find like, you could kind of do anything

20:44for, for two weeks, you know? And it's not like I'm gone for two, three months or anything like that. So, you know, I just try to keep it simple and make sure that that I don't really have to think about it too much. Just go out and just eat and yeah, just try to get my electrolytes in and just be smart out there. Yeah. And I coach a couple athletes who have some interest in longer unsupported stuff. So I think it's kind of fun to chat about what kind of how big a backpack or what kind of gear did you take for the trip? And did you have to camp most of the time? Yeah. No. So, I mean, so this is, I don't know, I messaged on the last trip I just did. It was funny. Like, I emailed the FKT website and I told them not there was cabins because there were the man on the IAT, it was very, very remote, very rough. But it was, they had these cabins every 12 to 20 K. And like, these full log cabins with bunk beds and mattresses and frigging wood fireplaces. And I emailed them and they're like, Oh, no, friends, poor, you can't use them. So I would camp next to them because it's the only place I could like sleep like there's one

21:48place I could set up my tent. But then I found out later that you can. So like, I don't know, I don't really know what the rules are still to be honest with you. But I sleep in my tent. I feel comfortable on my tent. I like my tent. I just, I use a closed cell foam mat. Like, I don't have a blow up mattress or anything. I'm a back sleeper. So I could sleep kind of on anything. I have a Nemo Horned Elite tent that I've used in my last two adventures, which I'll use again on this adventure. And then, yeah, man, just a Durston backpack. Durston was kind enough to send me a backpack. And I really, really liked that backpack. So I had my, my first backpack that I use on the on the Bruce Trail. I'm not going to drop the name of it, but it's a well-known backpack. And it actually, it kept loosening up on me, man. And like, when I ended up happening on day four, I ended up losing the skin on my back because the backpack kept rising up against my back. So like, there's a picture I posted on Instagram. I had to put, I had trail toes taped that I packed last minute. Thank God. And I taped my entire back. And, and, and thank God that taped stayed on

22:50for the entire Bruce Trail because if that tape is the reason why I was able to, like, take, like, you know what I mean, keep going on that trail. Cause like, I remember the end of the fourth, fourth night there. I'm like, oh my God. Like, I couldn't even have my backpack touch my back. I was like, thinking about how I could like put, like, ways of where I could have my backpack in the front of me or whatever you want to be. Like, I was trying to figure it out. Like, how am I going to do this? But like, yes, thank God I had that tape put it on and it stayed on for less the trip. So, so the dursing backpack that I got, I, I, because of what happened on the Bruce Trail, I taped my back beforehand, but I didn't have to. The tape fell off. And then I remember, like, the backpack was really, I could really crank it down and it didn't loosen up. And, uh, and it was good, man, for the, for the entire trip. Cause like, you really have to have that backpack glued to your back. So it doesn't rub and shape on your back, you know? Yeah. Totally. And so do you do any like mental prep or visualization or anything like that to get your mind ready for these long unsupported things or how do you manage that aspect of it? That's a good question. Honestly, like, I'll be honest with Jeff. Like, I've always had a very, I, I, I visualized a lot

23:56of a lot of things in life. And like, you know, I'm a musician. Like, I pictured myself playing for 1,000 people. Like, I, I, like, I'm very singular focus with like, you know, there's a lot of pros and cons to it. But like, whenever I do something, I'm so laser focused on that one thing and I get obsessed with it. So it's like, like, whenever I was one of my wife is driving the Bruce trail, like, it was crazy even before starting it, starting it. And I know like, for sure, it's just because I'm naive too. I'm naive as fuck. So it's like, you know, I, I, I, I get like, I get in my van. I'm getting drew, like driven to the start of the Bruce Trail. And I pictured myself already at the end of it. But like, you know, it's like, obviously anything could happen out there. And, you know, like, now, like, I just announced yesterday, because I've been talking on the podcast about the project I'm doing this year. So I announced yesterday on my Instagram what I'm doing. And I'm kind of at the point now, Jeff, where it's like, I don't really care. Like, what happens? Like, me getting at the start line is already a win for me. You know what I mean? Like, the preparation that goes into it, like, you know what I mean? The, my mindset that that that goes into this, like, I'm already winning by even just stepping on the start line. So it's like, whether I get the

24:57job done or down or not, it's like, I've already won. And I'm okay with it. If it, if it happens or not. So like, one way or another, I'm going to learn out there. Um, so yeah, like in terms of preparation, mentally, it's just like, I just feel like it's just a matter of just, I don't know, man, just, just being focused and like having a goal, setting a goal in the beginning of the year, having something to work towards. Like, I coach clients too. And I always tell them it's like, either sign up for race or sign up with a coach and like, have something that's going to motivate you to, you know, get out the door and lace up or go to the gym and get that workout in, you know, and, and for me right now, what's motivating me is these projects. I set up a project for myself. And then I got something to train for. So yeah. So that's how I prepare, prepare myself. Totally. So with like eight months, or I guess six months till the next project, how do you train and prepare what, what kind of things do you incorporate to tailor to a specific project, like the long trail now? Yeah. So I mean, it was, it kind of started last year. Like on the

25:58Bruce trail, I, I was doing strength training, obviously, I always do some of strength training. In the winter time, I tried to like, really focus on strength training. And then, and then whenever the spring time comes, I'll start like bringing in like my nose breathing runs. I tried to like really incorporate those strict nose breathing. So really kind of drops my heart rate and gets me relaxed while I'm running. But then the Adirondax, man, that's a really good place for me because what I usually do is I'll do two back to back, like back to back big days. And I find the back to back big days really prepares my body and my feet for the, the pounding and, you know, the long days on trail. Because like I tried having a, well, my coach Ray, like he tried to give me a plan before the Bruce trail. And I remember, like one thing I don't like is like a, a running plan where it's like heavy running focus. And all week, you got like this day, you're doing 20k that day, you're doing Hill sprints, this day, you're doing temple work. I find it's like almost like a little overwhelming for me. So I like, I don't know what it is. I like to do, I like to go by feel. And for me, for me,

26:59what's been working for me is like, I'll spend those two big days, like I'll devote two days and go the Adirondax and then go do those big back to back big days. And then it's strength training, man, like because you know, it's like at the end of the day, like we're doing so much climbing and the descending. It's really hard on the quads. It's really hard on the legs. So it's like, that's where I feel like that's why I'm, I'm pretty, pretty good out of the mountains because I focused so much on strength training. So yeah, I don't know, man, it's, I've been, the last two years now, I've been kind of the same training plan for me and so far it's been working. So yeah, are you going to change anything up going into the long trail? No, no. So the internet, are you familiar with the international operation trail in Quebec that I just did? Yeah, are you? Yeah, have you been to the chick chalk stuff? I haven't been up there now, but we've talked to a few people that have done it. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's incredible, man, really, really, really beautiful trail. Very rugged, very technical, but like that had 85,000 feet of climbing and like it was 650K. So like it was, it had the kind of same amount of elevation gain as like the long trail would. So I felt very strong on that. And like I said, like my preparation going

28:05to that was mainly strength training. Last year, actually, I didn't do as much work in the mountains. I didn't really do as much running either. I was kind of focusing more on strength training, but I'm going to incorporate more running and more mountain work this year because one thing I realized when I went out to the IAT, like my feet were a little bit more tender quicker because I think like my body wasn't used to like those long days like that. You know what I mean? I did put in some big days in the Adirondacks, but not like I did for the Bruce Trail. So that's one thing I'll maybe switch up a little bit is maybe have a bit more longer days on the Adirondacks. But yeah, honestly, man, I'm just kind of prepared all year. Like I'm always training. I love it. So it's and it's a real mental thing too, you know, like to be to do it for two weeks alone. Like I'm everyone on the Bruce Trail, like day seven, I had a panic attack. Like holy, I was just like, what am I doing? You know, but now it's like, you know, whenever I went on the IAT, just like that one year, gave me so much experience that when I went on the IAT, I was totally like mentally strong and prepared to take on such an adventure. So yeah, what do you think contributed to that panic

29:08attack? Just the overwhelming thing you were doing? Yeah, I think so. I remember I remember like in the morning, I woke up and every morning, I was like, you know, like skipping around. I'm like, I'm having the best time and the day seven came and I'm like, I couldn't even like I was like, I thought I was gonna have a heart attack. I was like, I was like, I was my vision started closing and stuff and and I remember I called my wife and I'm like, and I'm not making any sense and I start singing to her. She's like, yeah, right? I'm like, yeah, no, not really. And I just like, and I just like she just kind of like talked into it. Like she really, she's got a really calming voice so she helped me out. And then I ended up having one of my best days. And then I had another panic attack on the Bruce trail. And I was like, that was whenever I went into my second night where I was pulling all night and I had no food and I was really like, I was really messed up. Like I was here in voices. I was seeing I like, I yeah, there's a lot of things I learned from the Bruce trail. Like on the Bruce trail, I didn't sleep at all for the first seven days either. And on the IAT, I slept like a rock every night. And like, you know, little things like not taking magnesium. Like one thing I learned like on the second trail, I just did like I took a bunch of magnesium and I was taking that every night. And it was helping me sleep. And on the Bruce trail,

30:11I didn't sleep for the first seven days. I was so like jacked up. And my body was like going crazy by the time I put my feet up and tried to sleep. So, you know, just a little things like that. You learned so much, man. And yeah, like on the Bruce trail, I was, I had micro hallucinations every day. Wow. What's the craziest hallucination you have? Well, probably in my last push, whenever whenever I got into the second night and it got started getting dark, I remember, dude, this was crazy. So like I had to like keep looking back on my chorus app. I thought I thought I was running back and forth, like up and down, up and down. I didn't think I was moving in a forward direction. And, and, and I kept looking at my map and like, like at the end of whenever I finished it and I was moving forward. But I remember like that was happening. I thought I was going back forth like I was lost. And then I was hearing voices. Like, I kept hearing like, Cody. Oh, it was crazy. And, and like, you know, like just micro hallucinations, like seeing stuff, like I always thought I saw people on the side of the trail, like plotting me, you know. It was just crazy, man. Like I just not sleeping really does affect you. And it affects

31:17your your how quick you're moving. It affects everything. But like, you know, the fact that I was able to kind of pull through and get it done, like it just goes to show that the human body. And mine could push through a lot. And, uh, yeah, man, it's, it's crazy. It's crazy, man. John G is our first sponsor of the show, J-A-N-J-I.com. And you know what? They donated some gift cards for the giveaway in the March Madness bracket challenge outdoor March Madness, as we're calling it. What do I love from John G? I've been wearing the two-in-one shorts because the pockets are great. And I don't shave as much as usual. I also wore the ultra shorts, the AFO Ultra shorts, because they have pockets, like traditional pockets on the Appalachian trail. So go over to JohnG.com and check them out and tell them I sent you. Were you, were you scared when you first started having hallucinations? Because I remember the first time I had them. It was quite scary. And then now I'm pretty used to them. But how did it feel the first time?

32:19So my first hallucinations were on my 100 mile races. And like I remember, I remember I did two of them there. And like, like the year before. And one of them, I saw a Buddha on the side of the trail. And, and then I remember one time, like one of the races, the first race I did, the first 100 mile race I did, I didn't have any paces, didn't have any help. And like the last 50K, I remember I dropped in a hypothermia. So like, I did have some hallucinations in that race, but I always kind of fight for my life on that one because like, there was no sweepers of the last one on the trail. So I was like really struggling on that one. But like on my second race, the second 100 mile race I did four months later, I had a pacer. So I didn't really have to think about my navigation. I just kind of followed him. But I remember like one time, I remember I told my buddy, seven, I'm like, oh, look, there's turkeys on the trail. And he's like, look, and he starts laughing. Like, there's no turkeys there. So like, like a lot of visuals for me. I see a lot of stuff. And that's why I say micro hallucinations because it's not like, it's not like they're crazy. Like I'm out of body experience. Like, I mean, for sure they're out of box experiences, but they're

33:21they're not like trippy where I'm like losing my footing because I'm like freaked out. It's more just like kind of just, you know, you just kind of laugh about it and you just move on. Yeah. What's the wildest animal encounter you've had on these adventures? So the last adventure I did, the International Operation Trail, I came across a moose and it was about 50 yards away. I remember it was like running. I was climbing up this mountain and it was getting pretty late. And I'm like, freak, I'm like, I got to I got to like find spot to camp because like, you know, I got to cook my food and it's going to get dark. And I don't want to be sleeping on top of the mountain. And I remember as I'm climbing up the mountain, I keep looking at my maps. I'm like, I'm trying to figure out where I'm going to camp. But then this moose man starts running through the woods. And I'm not even lying. Like a big bull moose. I have a video of it too. And it's ripping these trees right on the ground. And like, I didn't I didn't know what to I didn't know what to do. It's like my first kind of like, I like, I sculpted the trail before that a month ago. So like, I came across moose then. So like, but I still didn't have much experience with it. And I remember like, I just thought I'm going to

34:23show that a show that it may be a little scary. It's moral. Keep going. So I'm like, I just like, yeah, like, hey, and the moose ended up stopping dead in its tracks. And I remember like, look at me. And this is like, like I said, it's 50 yards away from me. Looked at me. And the hair stands up in the back of the neck. And now I'm like, I slowly get behind this tree. I have my photo. Like, take it a video of it. But it didn't move. It just stood there and was staring at me. And I it was freaky for a bit. But then like, nothing was happening. So like for about 15 minutes, we were like on the standoff. But like, the trail went exactly towards the moose and took a hard right. And I'm like, man, I got I got to keep moving. So I just went for it. I can wait right towards the moose. And then it took the hard right and went up the mountain. And and I just kind of kept moving because I was like, man, I don't want this moose smelling my sweets and everything. I night my tent. Like I need to keep going as far as I can. So he doesn't smell my food. So I kept going. And I ended up sleeping on top of this mountain in the middle. Like, like I ended up setting up camp like eight o'clock. And in the IAT, man, it was crazy. I started in August. And like, whenever I was out in the chick chocs in the mountains, like it was going down to single digits.

35:25Like next to freezing every night. So it was like, like, way up higher in elevation. So it was cold, man. It was really cold for like half that trip. But yeah, man, the moose for sure was something. I haven't had any bear encounters. Like so far, the trails that I've done, it's just black bears. There's no grizzly bears or anything. So I don't I don't bring any bear spray or anything. Yeah. I'll only I'll only bring bear spray for like grizzly bear country. Yeah. Totally. So what about you? Do you bring spray? Um, I think I should bring it more. I live in Montana. So like every single run has the potential for grizzly bears. But oh, yeah. Crazy. Yeah. I bring it sometimes when I'm camping. If I remember. Yeah. But yeah, I don't know. Bears are fun. But yeah, I should bring it more. So yeah. Yeah. So, uh, oh, myself included a lot of people don't know about the Bruce trail. So would you just grab what that trail is where it goes? What it's about? Yeah. So the Bruce trail runs from Niagara Niagara Falls all the way to Tobamore. And uh, it kind of like,

36:29if you look in the maps, it looks like it runs through the city, but it's actually on an escarpment and it runs through the city. And then it kind of gets out into this area where it's a little bit more like remote and it's not like next to like Toronto or any of these big big hub like cities or anything. So it's like it does have areas where it's like you're more like next to farm fields and stuff like that. Then in the Tobamore area, like at the end of the Bruce trail, it's it's very rocky, very technical and it's tough. But like the Bruce trail is very, very well marked. And I do have to say for anyone that's doing it through hike, I think that's a really good one to start with. It's tough. It's hard. It's very technical. But if you got to bail out, there's places to bail out sort of thing. You know, and on the I on the IAT, like I didn't really have any places to bail out. If I had to bail out, it's like, I got to hit the SOS button basically. You know what I mean? So that's that was the difference between the two trails. But the Bruce trail was it's it's a beautiful trail. Man, it's really well marked. I think it's I don't I think that I think it was founded in 1962 or 1967, one of those dates. But gorgeous trail. It's it's really, really well maintained. A lot of

37:33really good volunteers on that trail. And I highly recommend that one because like I said, it's it's you feel like you're you're in the middle of nowhere, but at the same time, you feel safe because you are close to civilization in a way. Yeah. Is it forested most the way or mountains as well? Kind of what matter the sections? Mountains like like it's it's more like rolling hills like you still get a lot of elevation gain. But it's not like mountains like the IAT or like the long trail that I'm going to do. So it's it's it's more like rolling hills, but it's it's like very rocky. Like I said, it's like an escarpment. So it's like it's it's a lot of rock, which is kick, which can be hard on the feet. And then yeah, man, like just like I said, you're kind of like ripping through farm fields a lot of stuff. And it's kind of got a bit of everything. Honestly, it's got a bit everything. It's got some road stuff to you a little bit of not like not a lot of road work, but still some road work. Yeah, it's got a bit of everything on that trail. Yeah, as you've gotten into these things, what what's like your strength? What's what do you kind of lean into as part of

38:34these? Because I think we all have strengths and weaknesses on on these. Yeah, I mean, I didn't really I felt my strength was my climbing, but I just went out on an adventure with my buddy, Jamison and and he he told me I was really good at descending. And actually, this is what this is what's crazy, man. So like this, he's the one that introduced the long trail to me, but do us a note backs. Like it has been done yet, unsported. And it's like I just I emailed the FKT website. They actually put it on the website. So it's up there now as a note back. So he introduced that idea to me because like he originally wants to do it. But when we went out, we did we did the Bob Marshall traverse. We were going to do an out and back on that. I tried to set an FKT for that. But yeah, anyways, that we filled on that project. But like whenever he saw me out in the mountains, he saw that I was like just ripping the descents and he's like, dude, he's like, he's like halfway through the trip. He's like, he's like, I want to do this project, but he's like, I think you're I think you're fit to do this. So then he introduced that idea to me for doing the long trail. I want to talk about that story real quick, though. So Jamison hat

39:35he's he was the one that had the original FKT on the Bruce trail now. And the reason I'm telling the story too is because he's a big fan of you and he's going to be listening to the podcast. So Jamison had the original FKT on the Bruce trail. And I I reached out to him man and he he was super kind and took me under his wing and gone on a bunch of Zoom calls with me. He was like ended up being like my second coach. And he helped me out man, like get prepared for that Bruce trail. And then I got the FKT. I had the FKT for about a year. And then Jamison went back out and then got his FKT back for the Bruce trail. But but like him and I had this epic story. So then we got together, met each other for the first time. And then we took on that that Bob Marshall traverse. Then we've been kind of like going back forth. And like that's what I made me him set me up with this project that I want to do this year. It's just it's kind of feels like full circle moment. But Jamison man, epic story like right before he took on the Bruce trail to get the FKT back his dad passed away. And so like he had a he had man he had something with him there because he smoked that FKT and like he he's just an incredible guy. And he's he's like I say

40:40he's been helped me out and a lot of my stuff there. So I just want to give a shout out to him. Yeah, what happened on the Bob Marshall traverse. So do you know the Bob Marshall traverse? I don't know. Where is this? Well, it's in the Adirondacks. It's it's a really really tough course. Like it's like 50 K. But like 18,000 feet of climbing it like it kind of like attacks a lot of the big big high peaks in the Adirondacks. But we want to do it as an outback. And what happened was we did so we did the we did the one way. And then like Bob Marshall was like he started out like this hut. And she she went out to this mountain came back and then and then did the traverse. So we were like we were we were like dropping our bags and doing these peaks. And we ended up dropping our bag like way up on the trail. We're like, okay, we just got to do that one mountain with us way over there. And then we'll come back pick up our bags and kind of continue on. So we dropped our bags went down did this mountain and then came back to the shallow where he started but we realized we had to go back up the mountain again. And then come back and pick pick

41:45like go back to our bags to counter as an outback a true outback. But like it was like we kind of we kind of messed up because we only brought so much nutrition. We only brought so much water, hydration stuff. So it was honestly it didn't really matter like we were just we kind of just got together for the fun of it. And like setting an FKT or not seven FKT. It didn't matter. We were just out there to have fun. It would be cool setting FKT. But we just it was kind of a mistake on both our ends. But it was just funny because like two guys that have done two massive adventures get together to do this like two day adventure and we both we both screw up. You know, so it's like it was just kind of funny how it worked out. But yeah, James and Hat shout out to you bro. You're your legend. So yeah, have you had any other failures in as you've gotten into this world? No, man. So like I guess I got a knock on when they're like I since I got in the FKT world like I've only I've only like went for the bigger trails like I know I'm not like going out for these smaller FKTs. I kind of like just a little like set my goals on one big FKT and just train for that all year and then go for it. So I only got into it in 2024. So I got the Bruce trail.

42:50I got the IIT the IIT. No one's ever done it on supported. So I just I have to set the FKT for that one. And then just like the long trail, I'm just going to go out and set the FKT. So it's hard. Yeah. Oh, is it hard to walk by like a store or a gas station or something and not use anything when you're going unsupported? Is it hard? So the only thing sometimes I really crave is a coke. A coke. Yeah. I really crave a coke. And I remember on the Bruce trail, I really thought about it. But on the IIT, I didn't like, man, I went the first four or five days with it's seen anyone. And like whenever you get out in the chick chalks, you're not you're not crossing any kind of corner stories or anything. So it's like, you know, you don't have to think about it, you know. But yeah, I remember on the Bruce trail, you're crossing like a lot of like little intersections and stuff. Then going back on trail and you're seeing these corner stores like I could drop my watch in my backpack and my GPS on the trail, go grab a coke, come back. No one's going to know, you know, but like you got to live with these decisions in life, man. So it's like I never did it. You know, so by like, yeah, it's it's funny. You have these thoughts for sure. But it's not so much

43:50food, man. It's it's yeah, coke. I really, I really crave a coke. Like I remember after the IIT, I call my wife. I'm like, all I want is two liters of Coca-Cola and a bag of all dress chips. So finish the trail. And I had I literally crushed she she could find a full two liter ballad. And she's like fouled like these little like mini 500 billion bottles. And I'm like, I'm just pounding back Coca-Cola. And and that I put down the chips that I was funny, man. That's what I craved. Yeah. How much weight did you lose on the IIT? Man, still like 20 25 pounds. Cheese. Yeah, like yeah, for sure. Like the Bruce trail, I lost like 30 maybe maybe a bit more. But the IIT, I was still skinny, man. Like I usually like I usually like in the winter, like right now, I weigh 183 pounds. I'm 5'7, 183 pounds. I lifts a lot of weight, though, man. Like I'm like, I'm moving a lot of big numbers here. Like I I definitely focus on strange training. I love strange training just as much that I love doing these adventures. Yeah. What are your numbers? Give us the big weights you're moving. Yeah. What are you left?

44:51I was going to I was going to save it. I'm like, I don't want to sound like a cocky piece of shit. Nope. Now you got it. But yeah. So my bench right now is 280. My dead list like 350. I know I could go heavier on the deads. And then my my squats are like 350. So sweet. Yeah. Yeah. I'm pushing. I'm like, this year was my first year where like I really locked in with my like mind to muscle connection. And I feel like everything I've been doing, like my backs engaged, like everything I'm doing is like, it's I'm really moving weight. And those are just like, I don't I'm not pushing for PR results all the time. Like I actually follow this protocol called Greece the groove. And for anyone that like want like just search that I've Greece the groove. It's a really cool protocol. I found on Andrew Hubertman's podcasts. But basically what my idea is with training is like, I don't I don't train to 100% every day. I train about 70% every day. And basically I don't talk to nervous system. So I show up every day in my workout. It's ready to go every day. And I'm always progressing. And I'm always training, but not wrecking the

45:53body. And then maybe once a month, I'll push for PR. But like since I've been doing that, my PR is like whenever I do push for PR, they're they're I'm like hitting these numbers that I've never hit before. And I'm constantly just leveling up. So like, you know, before that, like whatever I got into the ultra running, like whenever I got back into fitness, like I said, I was following David Goggins and like his mindset of training is like, it's fun for a bit. But like you can't you can't sustain that. You can't like you can't train. I mean, you know, some people can, but like you're just going to be broken, you know, and I want I want longevity. I want to train smart. So yeah, man, like I said, love him or hate him. He there's a time place for for him for everyone. Garage Grum gear is our next sponsor of the show. What do they have over there? Well, pretty much anything you could need for ultra running trail running backpacking through hiking. They've got freeze-dried meals. They've got gear. They've got poles. They've got tents, sleeping bags, bug nets. They've got compasses. If you happen to be running Barclay Marathons in 2027.

46:56So check out garagegrumgear.com and tell them I sent you. Yeah, I want to let's talk about this Greece the groove principle a little bit since maybe it's new to some people. It's basically I believe it's like high reps low intensity off in multiple times a day, but never yes, or very rarely to max is basically to yeah, exactly. So there's a couple of different ways you could do it. Like let's just say the proper Greece a groove protocol would be like you have a barbell, 225 pounds and you deadlift that maybe twice two reps every hour and you do that for a whole day. So like that would be a proper Greece a groove. So if you have a pull-up bar, maybe like do five pull-ups every hour. And like that way you're like you go in every pull-up you do for every hour, they're perfect pull-ups, you get way more repetition doing that than what you do in an hour workout just trying to bang out four sets of like as many reps as you could, you know. Yeah, it's almost like yeah, it's like

47:57we talked about Jeff Galloway too, who had this run walk run mentality for running. It's almost similar to that where you you erase the I guess the the muscle dead or the fatigue with these little periods in between the reps too. Yeah, yeah, so I mean and then yeah, exactly. And then now but like I said, so then the other way you could do it too is just like because like that's what they said on this video, it's like if you're not going to be doing a proper Greece a groove protocol like another way you could do it is like then that's what I've been doing because that's just what's more manageable for me as I'm trying to build my business but like go into the gym and just like be it smart about how you train like rating it like the other day I did a workout where I did like I did a sled push I did I focus more on upper body that day so it was like a sled push I did a shoulder press I did a barbell row a barbell bench press and then and then like a core movement I was doing like this like with that barbell I was kind of doing like this paddling thing where I'm kind of getting rotation and but I did that as like a circuit but I would like but by the time I

49:02got back to the bench press it would be like already like a 10-15 minute break you know what I mean for to by the time I got back to the bench press so like that's kind of a way where you could do a Greece a group protocol and a workout in an hour long workout sort of thing you know what I mean yeah totally and like and then like you know like my bench press like for example like I'm benching 225 pounds and I could do eight reps of that but I'm only doing four reps I'm only doing four clean reps every time I'm not I'm not pushing to feet fatigue so yeah that's just kind of like what I've been doing it's kind of like maybe my own little twist on the Greece a group protocol but it's working and basically what I got out of that protocol is like just don't tax the nervous system every day it's like you're basically just always constantly just training and and just you know what I mean be playful and not not you know not messing yourself up for the next day sort of thing so yeah and like the last thing on this what I think is really good about it like one of the underrated features is that it's very approachable especially if you're like nervous about getting into lifting or something you're never aiming for maxing out you're aiming for form

50:05you're aiming for exactly the right amount of fatigue I guess not ever pushing it to that point where like injuries more likely so I think of like a bench press like you never want to get to the point where you can't push that bar back up and you're never getting anywhere close to it with the Greece the group protocol so it's it's a good way for even beginners with no intention of hitting a max just to like get into something without feeling like they're they're aiming for something unattainable too yeah absolutely man yeah you got it yeah so Cody I'm I'm curious what were you like as a kid where'd you grow up in in Canada um so I grew up in a small town called Lancaster Ontario I'm like I was like right on the border Quebec and I grew my elementary school was like right in a farm field like I was basically a little hick but I remember I remember like my my my school was very they were they were they were very music driven like my mute my my teacher my music teacher was our French teacher and oftentimes is like we're in the French studio

51:07and we're like he's like you guys won't play music instead and we're like yeah so we go leave the like I don't know a word of French so but I started playing drums at 12 and and then yeah my parents uh man honestly bless them like they're they're the best but they're yeah they gave me everything um they I played hockey my entire life so that was my sport was hockey Canadian right that's the very thing to do yeah yeah I was gonna guess you played hockey yeah I guess yeah it's I don't know fucking chalk at me but it was uh but yeah my parents my parents gave me everything they made me work hard though I got to say like my dad had a very successful business but like he didn't he didn't like he didn't give me everything like whenever I got my drum kit like he maybe pay for half my drum kit he paid for the other half um he maybe start working at 12 like I started picking strawberries at 12 years old you know like I started working at a young like roughing hockey you know and at 12 and you know so he taught me how to work hard and and my mom

52:07was a stay-at-home mom you know she was awesome gave us everything to make sure we were all hotter lunches and everything for every day went to school and drove drove us to the arena to it from the arena like it's a full-time job just to raise two kids I got a little brother to he's 14 months younger than me um but yeah man in terms of like working out and stuff like training like I didn't take this I didn't learn this from my parents like my mom is a go getter she'll like play sports but like she wasn't like going to the gym or anything like like the way I was I I got to say like I started working out like 12 because like my first girlfriend said like I had a nice body so I started I went home I started doing I started doing push-ups and sit-ups every day so like everything I did like I got I got to I got to mid Jeff like even playing drums I'm like I just want to get the ladies you know so I start playing drums and like but then like you know then I realized I'm like oh man you keep doing it like I'm actually half decent at this and then like I met my wife at 16 been with her ever since so it's like I didn't really get too many ladies just for sure but like everything I've done it was just like it was very ego-driven and then

53:08like and then yeah it's just like became part of my life and it's just so funny how it works out like I I love telling that story because like it is true like you know some people are like oh I worked out because I was trying to like clear my mental health is like no I worked out because I wanted to get laid so so what was your what was your wife most into when you guys met was it your drumming was it your hockey was it your lack of French skill I I just saw maybe I was like maybe I'm just a badass you know but no it's it's it it was just because I had this same like values in life and I just like I wanted to do big big things I wanted to I just wanted to live life to to my fullest and she she really recognized that right from the beginning and that's why like she's the same way man like we're both we both value but what life has to offer and family and you know just health and everything so it's like I think that's really important you know we we both had the the same values and we just we saw that at a very young age and and like I said

54:08man I I'm very I'm very good at visualizing things and whatever I started whatever I first met her at 16 and I'm like I knew she was gonna be the girl for the rest of my life like and she knew it too she just she always said like she wish she met me at 25 because like it's hard you know when you're 16 it's just like holy shit I just met the guy we're not gonna be with for the rest of my life but it's like so you know we ended up having a couple hiccups and it's like it was like we we had to have it because it's like if we didn't have any other experiences in life it's like I like it would have been tough knowing like you know I mean not knowing what what could have been but like so we had a couple of hiccups where we had six months breaks in between like six months of a break and honestly it was probably the best thing that could have happened to us but we're we're together man we have this house that we live together in and and we run this business together and and we do everything together and yeah man it's it's everything man having a good partners everything so I really respect and love her so oh I want to because I think it's so different from what a lot of people know what is the Canadian childhood like throughout the winter are you just like waiting for a pond to freeze over and then you're playing like laden to the night out

55:11there what's it like yeah yeah I mean so like I my my the old house like my parents live on the river now in the St Lawrence River so I've always been playing pond hockey so for sure like the you know we place so we play so much hockey already like outdoor hockey or sorry indoor hockey then I was wreathing like I was on the ice already like 12 hours a week even more that I honestly a lot maybe sometimes like 20 hours a week I was on the ice and then we go play a pond hockey too so like yeah for sure man we were just like we just like live breathe like eat friggin hockey like it was that was our thing but like I remember like at 12 years old though like so this is what was crazy man like I had I always had big dreams you know I'm a big dreamer and like I remember like whenever before like my before 12 I'm like I want to go to the NHL and then I hit 12 years old and we played two with two guys that were NHL Calder players and they're skating around circles around us I'm like okay well fuck my dreams like I guess that's not going to happen and I remember like scouts were coming to see these guys and stuff like that but then that's when I started playing drums and at one thing I always tell like the like the kids there or we did my wife and I

56:15do these presentations and I always tell the kids like you know one thing I love about music is that like the music dream can never die it's like you could you could play music to the day like wherever you're like old and brittle and you can't stand up you can still strum a guitar you know what I mean like that dream that dream could live on forever so like that's one thing I love about music is like so whenever I was 12 years old and I started playing drums and then I remember like I started playing drum solos in front of the schools and everything and I remember like you know I made like I said I was doing it for the girls I remember like all the girls are like losing their shit over it I'm like I'm a rock star you know what I mean I was like I know that was the coolest thing in the world but like I dreamed so big because of because of doing something that most people weren't doing and and all of a sudden like now I'm like like I remember I went for playing club shows till like all of a sudden playing like on tour going my band like playing all across the states and the Caribbean's and and doing all these cool things and I remember band it was just music was a really really big dream mine and and I was just close to giving up hockey because like I just I stopped caring about hockey I just cared about so much about drums I'm a bit of an introvert

57:18man like honestly like a lot of people might not think it but like I like being alone and like you know being a being a hockey player taught me how to work with others but like man I like being alone and I am I am weird too you know it's like I'm definitely a little different than everyone else and and I'm okay with it you know so it's like it's just it's what's that's what kind of made me who I am I guess and yeah man so yeah was it was it hard watching Canada lose to the U.S. and in hockey dude I'm such a positive guy so it's funny to say that so for the first 10 minutes of like no but then like after 10 minutes so it's just like you know what like Goudreau like they know one of their brothers jersey on the ice and then they brought his sons out in the ice and then I'm like this states have it won in 46 years or something like that it's good for the sport I'm like you know like I find people are like bringing too much politics involved in the sport and that's why I was like so like gun hole and seeing Canada win because they're like oh fuck trump and everything but like dude it's like okay like politics aside like it's a sport you know like the their kids playing and and like you know I was so I was proud to see these guys like

58:23uh what's the guy that what's the name that scored their game winning goal there like um I forgot his name now but like you know the there's young kids and like they're like they're like there was a huge like huge accomplishment for these guys and like and it's also gonna bring now kids more kids into the sport in the state so it's only good for the sport of hockey you know so like it was all good man after 10 minutes I was like one of the only Canadians I was just like talking like this I told this to my brother my brother's like fuck you it's just like he was so bad to be and I was just thought it was so funny I was like you know what like I don't know man I just I know how to flip it and be and be positive and it was Canada really sad in general I think so yeah for sure I mean but again it's just like man we we've won so many times like it's it's our sport it's like you know it's like we still won silver it's like still freaking yeah I don't know it was such a good game though the boys put on a good game of such an entertain entertainment to its finest you know like I I I had a blast watching it like I said it suffered I suffered like 10 minutes but then you know whenever they whenever they brought

59:24Ogujo's jersey on the ice and like apparently it was a sun's birthday that day and stuff I'm like it was just a beautiful moment for the states and and then seeing all the frigging bars going off like everyone going off that whenever they scored that game when it go I'm like you know it's like yeah good for you guys too I know because I got know you guys are going through a lot of shit too with like all this politics and stuff and you know with what's going on with the government and like anyways it's I don't want to bring that into this podcast but it's it's it's tough for a lot of people you know so it's like it was it was nice to see you guys have a win like that so Sawyer is our next sponsor of the show so they've got filters you've probably heard of this Sawyer's squeeze it's very common very popular out on the trials but the sunscreen this applies to all of you and applies to your skin it lasts all day it's called the stay put sunscreen and Allison loves it I love it but she shows more emotion than I do so she talks about how much she loves it in her episode recently on how great Sawyer's sunscreen is so check them out yeah yeah thank you thank you we had a lot to do with it as spectators too

1:00:27so let's use I want to use the last little bit here to talk about your business so yeah you let me know what you do to make all this happen yeah I mean so I like I said I was I wasn't a heating cooling I was in the trades my entire life and then like whenever I started whenever I started sharing and documenting my journey I kind of like started changing some of my closest buddies lives I started changing their lives around because they're like they're seeing me run and getting after it so then they started running and and going to the gym and and they changed their life around and like I found it was like that domino effect or just like seeing other people just like do things because you're doing it and I thought that was really cool so I remember like in 2024 I'm like I was gonna give myself a whole year to get out of HFAC and kind of promote like the at the time I was doing in-person training and and then and then I like January 1st I've made a postman like yeah I'm I'm accepting clients then like do it out like right away I had a full roster clients and I ended up dropping the tools and have been on the tool since and and then like did the in-person training for about a year and then after the

1:01:33Bruce trail I I ended up starting the online coaching and because I had a lot of people following me after the Bruce trail we started the online coaching business really quick and then I converted in one year I did for the in-person training for 2024 then 2025 I went straight to online business online coaching and that's been a lot of fun so like now we got our we got our app the new normal app it's it's branded app and my wife's a nutrition coach and I do the fitness coaching I've been helping out a lot of guys that are running their first ultras like I want to make this very clear it's like I I'm not gonna get you podium I'm not like I'm not that experienced but like if you want to run your first 100 mile race your first 50 kilometer race like I got enough experience to help you get across finish lines so that's why I've been I've been really I really enjoyed training athletes like that because like there's they're just they're very eager to get the training in they're very they're listening they're taking notes like they they want to do it so like they're a lot of fun to train so I kind of been I've been training a lot of athletes like that now but I do have a big background in fitness so I do a lot of the fitness programming stuff

1:02:37and it's just accountability man it's about it's about having a community and that's one thing I realized like it took me a year to realize like how the hell am I getting paid for this because I'm so used to like work my hands again my hands dirty and work it hard and then I started doing the online coaching and I started like making paychecks I'm like what the hell is going on here like I feel like I'm not with you even working but I'm realizing it's like you know what we're providing it's so much it's so valuable because like people you know what I mean it's like if you're if you're like kind of checking in on them and and you're holding them accountable to like whether they're getting the workouts done or not it's like that's very valuable man because like you know if you could change your life like it all starts with your health and fitness if you could get healthy you know you're your everyday life's gonna be better you know you're you're if you're in business your business is going to do better your relationship your wife your family it's gonna be better so it's like it really it's such a positive experience such a positive gig and yeah man so it's we're just doing the online thing right now and yeah just having fun doing that yeah do you coach anyone to like get really get really fit to get the girls like you started out do you have any clients like

1:03:40no no no really I like I said dude I'm the only weird one that thinks like that what and so so describe the app for people what's what's in the app I mean the the app it's that it's like a platform where my wife has a lot of resources nutrition nutritional resources in there um basically like it's it's like a app where it's like we'll keep everything organized where like your structured workouts will be on there uh the nutrition goals if you're working with my wife too like sometimes with my clients we have like other packages where it's like fitness and nutrition so then you have two coaches in your corner and then it's like you know every day you get a notification whether it's a workout or a nutritional goal or whatever it is and uh it's just tailored to the client so like the app is not an open open app it's like you have to be a member with us but uh we have do we have different packages like we have a low ticket item where it's like if you just want programming with some uh light light accountability and then you get on the app and then like there's a community section where it's like it's almost like a Facebook group basically but

1:04:41it's all on our new normal app so it the like the like the I think I think like what makes it different from a lot of other coaches is that like we're very hands-on and we really do care about our clients we're not like you know we don't just like wheel these people in and then just gotta give them a program and don't talk to them for entire week like I constantly talk to my clients like every day you know uh whether it's tax or even phone calls or whatever so I like I like being hands-on because I really do feel like you know I like getting involved so yeah last question what is the the best thing and what is the hardest thing about working with your partner the best thing is that I get to be with her every day and like you know you realize that like especially when I was doing HFAC um you you realize like you know you work 40 hours and then like you know you want to be at home like you're a little tired you go to the gym you realize at the end of the week you have such like like limited time with each other like quality time you know

1:05:43so I think I think doing that doing this with her is going a lot of fun because like we're together we're building this business together we're constantly chatting about all these ideas and and we're just together man and like you know I like I care about her and she cares about me so it's like it's really nice to be with her and building this this business up with her um the hardest thing would be because like we're we're still like a you know fairly new new company it's like sometimes we catch yourself only talking about business so sometimes we really have to you know just keep in mind like you know life's not all about business it's like it's about you know and me just just other things in life you know and you know talking about other things rather than just always about business so she and I'm very I'm very bad for being like a one-track mind so it's like she's not she's constantly reminding me it's not it's not the other way around so it's usually yeah it's usually me that's kind of being that guy but that I would say that's probably the only the only hard thing she's a lovely girl so I love working with her makes sense yeah well

1:06:46thanks for joining where can we find you online and more about coaching and your adventures yeah I mean so we got a website www.findyournewnormal.ca so that's where you could like fill up the form and then if you you know if you guys want to go and discovery call us there and see if we're the right fit we could do that um my Instagram's at at coditailer performance and that's with TikTok YouTube and Facebook coditailer and yeah man like I'm training for some like the long trail like you have the long trail well you did have the long trail episodes yeah formerly like a decade ago yeah yeah yeah so like that's why they was really cool to jump on this call with you but um so I just yeah so I'm gonna be sharing a lot of the preparation for that I think what's really cool a lot of people don't really understand or see like what it takes to get into something like to get to get into a project like that so I'm really gonna try hard this year to try to document like all my training and all my all the nutrition and everything that goes into it so um if you guys want to follow that saw my Instagram Facebook at coditailer performance so as a as a former FKT holder of the long

1:07:52trail do you have any questions for me um when did you do it one month um let's see I think I did it in June 2019 how are the bugs they weren't too bad uh it was mostly muddy and really humid so yeah I heard I heard it's really muddy it can't be really muddy out there so like I I'm gonna probably attempt it maybe mid july or beginning of august because I still like I like the long days and uh I like to have a bit of a training period going into it so I'd be kind of doing my summer FKT's around that time yeah I really like planning around the full moon to where you get like a full moon in the middle because then the nights feel easier to work through yeah that's true actually I don't really think that far ahead yeah I just kind of go by weather like I just see if I got a good weather weather area there then I'll just kind of go for it but um yeah honestly man it's uh I'm just I I'm just gonna go and have fun and see what happens like a like I said like I don't really care anymore like if it if I get it done great if I don't well I still won by

1:08:56preparing for it and getting to the start line being healthy enough to do these things so it's all good man I'm just yeah I'm stoked to stoked to do it so that's so the truth as we get older and have other things going in our lives like getting to still go do these things that take multiple weeks is really the main goal and if you accomplish it that's like icing on the cake because it is so hard to set up life to to take two weeks off to go for a goal yeah for sure do you think that's absurd do it as an outback no I don't think so which do where are you going to start up north and do out in back yeah I think I'm I think I'm going to start in Canada like on a Canadian border so the hardest section at the beginning and at the end yeah probably maybe yeah I think I think that's what I'm going to do sweet awesome well thanks for jumping on this was great thanks Jeff appreciate brother thank you for listening to the show as a reminder just google free outside march madness and you will find the bracket fill yours out it's going to be a good time I'm releasing it on here or I'm

1:09:57telling you that it's live on here first because you guys are really awesome loyal listeners you have been so great and so fun to grow this community so put your picks in vote on the google form and we will start seeing how these things go it will be very fun if you want to get more content from me um some hits the website free outside dot com but if you're looking at the bracket you're already over there some hits the sub stack free outside dot sub stack dot com there's a movie on to be about my unsupported Colorado trail FKT if this unsupported chat got you interested in something like that and if you want to just give away your money to me patreon dot com slash free outside all right there's always more that I forget to say on here but I just want to say thank you to all of you and I also have to say because I say it every episode stay

1:10:57elite my friends