UK Column, China, and Intel Infiltration | Jerm Warfare Weekly Banter

My name is Jim. This is Jim will be the battle of ideas

Okay, after a couple of weeks of silence you guys are back kind of see me Charles you still you still yeah, okay

Working our way working our way back slowly slowly. Yeah, but we're but we are

Weirdly enough you still sort of in former UK territory Charles

Yeah, absolutely

This is it. I'm in Hong Kong and yeah, it's funny. I was thinking about exactly that on the way here. It was a typically British

Experience the journey. I just had to where I am now in that I got into a taxi and

sat in traffic for the first 10 minutes not moving anywhere at all. So home from home in that guard

But yeah, that it's funny the

There is I think I think when you know what to look for certainly in terms of where the British footprint has been left in various parts of the world then you

You know sort of what to identify, but I do think sadly. I never came to Hong Kong prior to 97

So I don't have a direct comparison to make and there's no doubt it's changed a lot since then

But there's only a simply driving on the left-hand side of the road for a start and

There are a lot of things like the ferry, you know, the the star ferry that runs across the harbour still exactly the same as it was

Over you know 100 and have many years ago

So yeah, there are lots of absolutely lots of nods to the past but like everywhere a

Huge number of pointers towards the future or just an indication of how much times have changed

Where's interesting? I never talked about this before the

Hong Kong still uses cash

Absolutely everywhere. I've so far I've been here a week now

So far I've only had to pay not using cash once which I think is pretty good and

Yeah, it's interesting how those two things can be alongside each other the fact that you can have

enormous

Development, let's call it and huge technological

Advancements so there are the options for doing all these things. I don't even understand in fact the girl

What when I when I produced cash to pay and she said um

Can you produce something else which can you use something else to pay with and like an idiot

I just took out a card and said I think you mean this and then of course she reeled off several different ways

Which I could have paid without a card

So just shows how much I know but that so all that is there and you can do it if you want

But the chances are that you will actually be able to carry on paying with cash which is really nice

I'm quite jealous a few months ago Mike you were jealous of me going to China and then you into China and I was jealous of you

So are we even?

No, I mean I was jealous of you go into Xinjiang in particular because that is a part of the world that I'm fascinated by

and you know, it's

clearly culturally

Totally different to to the rest of China and and just just for purely

Historical silk road reasons

I'm fascinated by the by the place so I'd like to I would love to go and see it

So that was why I was particularly jealous

Yeah, I mean it

I think you probably had a fantastic

Experience there

I mean look you're right the silk road belt and road initiative

Xinjiang is

Completely different to the rest of China and it has huge history and

Not just culturally, I mean geopolitically, traditionally

cuisine everything is different. I mean, it's it's more central Asia than than it is China

Well a date but yes, indeed, but I was I was thinking more in terms of the the historical rather than the modern

but but obviously they I've seen the

I've seen the the trailer for the documentary that's that's being made at the moment and and clearly that is

A part of the world, which is changing very rapidly now

Why were you there?

Why were we in China? We were invited to China by Marcel Janko who is

Has been a UK column member since

2019 or 2020 and and

he

Has

Been running a business in China for I don't know how long and every year they

They run a

sort of annual

Business company event which which this year he invited us to

Along with a number of others

Car was there Pepe Escobar was there

A number of other people that

Probably UK column viewers will be aware of

because

Marcel wanted to

Sort of show off

Some of his other activities to to the people that were

To his company employees and and it was it was

Also an opportunity just to to go and see as a city in China that that we hadn't seen before so so we were absolutely

Taken around the place

very similar to the to the kind of

City tours and and other tours that that I did back in April last year when I went just on holiday

um

But you know that this was

Really just an opportunity to to meet his people

In you know the work in that part of the world so it was it was a fantastic experience

Well, okay, so it's what I think

Yeah, yeah, yeah, well just you know

The fact that we were there we were okay

Four of us from UK column you and I

and christian jama and

there

You know the vast majority of what in fact I think

all but Marcel are

spread across

China

Chinese nationals and therefore for them to look at what we do and what some of the others are doing in the context of their

Lives and professional backgrounds

I think was um was a fascinating exchange

But both ways. I mean we might and I were

Totally gripped by what we saw it was it was absolutely remarkable by any

metric

So I think yeah, I think that's just an important point to make was that there was um

There was definitely

You know huge sort of interest both ways

I mean well jama we've had we've had you know we've had a few

uh

Communications from people in the last couple of weeks asking about Marcel because uh, yes, yes, yes, I was going to ask you

But but uh look I mean he is he is German national originally uh he

set up a business in

China to

producing

Charles I would I would guess we would describe it as traditional

medsens

Traditional Chinese person. Yeah, yeah, it's not based nuts. Yeah, right. So it's yeah, I mean

I've seen the medicines. It's not pharmaceutical at all

Um, and he he has done very well at that and he has supported a lot of people in

particularly since

Covid happened he has supported a lot of people that have been speaking out against what's

What's been going on in the world?

And as I say he's been a UK column member since

since

Around the Covid time a little bit before maybe and and uh and he has mid

uh

He has supported us a lot over that

Over that period of time and I have to say he's he's one of the the uh

I just enjoy his uh his company anytime we do meet up

He is a fantastic bloke

So you know, we're we're delighted to have him on board uh and and you know, he's

Extremely generous with this time and and with his ideas and so on

But you know, we've always got to keep in mind that uh

The UK column is the UK column and and he has

Just want to reinforce his point he has no desire to to see us

Heading in any direction other than the one that we were intending to go in so so just to to set everybody's mind at rest on that point

Sorry, uh, press the wrong button. I've known myself for for many years. I mean from when I was back at TNT

And you're quite correct

He just wants a better future for um for you know, his kids and for our kids

And and that's how it should be we all

Should want a better future. I get so annoyed Mike at this constant

Uh

Bickering within the opposition

Quote unquote movement um and we've spoken about this before but it again, it's relevant because

Um, I I constantly see even myself

Um being accused of being controlled opposition and whatever else now mic your degree of control over me is terrible

I have to admit you've you've got it up your game

I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I hosted a show where the guest argued that earth is flat. You should have stopped that mic

Hey, and then mic discipline

I'm with that

You've gone

Yeah, why has it all happened that that's very annoying

That's extremely impressive

Well, I can still yeah, you mic

Hold on a second. Let me see what we can do here. Can I turn this off and turn this back on again?

You see that's that's the level of of of control you have, Mike

Hey, you can't control over it even

Or that that that somebody has

To be able to manipulate at every stage what's going on in the background

See there is that yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, look, I'm just gonna have to I'm just gonna have to use the the uh the laptop camera

I'm not sure why that has happened. So uh, that's fine. We'll just you were gonna you were gonna say Mike

Uh, what was gonna say uh, yeah, you were asking about about the sort of bickering within the

Opposition groups

Look, we have to always remember that that uh, we are in an information war

And you know at the end of the day people are going to be influenced by a lot of the stuff

Which is pushed out on various formats and platforms

but you know

For the you know, we've been doing this for 20 years germ and in that time

The amount of stuff that has appeared on the internet about us, which has been absolutely

Factually incorrect

Possibly defamatory in many cases

So I take everything that I see about anybody with a massive pinch of salt

Now Marcel has supported a lot of people over the last five or six years in particular and some of those people

For whatever reason that relationship is broken down and as a result there is

The usual vitriol doing the rinds about him from one or two people

But I look at this from the point of view that uh

You know that the number of people that that are

Um massively appreciative of the help that he has given over the years

vastly outweighs the number of people that are complaining about him

And that applies I think to us and to just about everybody else. It's doing this in any kind of honest way

Uh

So

Our view has always been that bearing in mind that we have been under saving and of this kind of nonsense for so many years and so many instances of it that

That we absolutely will not uh get involved in that kind of

Uh effort because what is the point at the end of the day whether somebody that that's that's an opposition or a

So who claims to be resisting the agenda

Um is attacking us or not we're not the enemy because

We're not we're not pursuing these agenda poll these agenda items that that are the ones that are intended to

To enslave us or whatever it is that that people are particularly concerned about at this at this moment of time

So our effort should be directed at the uh at the policy makers at the governments at the financiers

Uh that are that are building this uh

Technocracy that we're saying at the moment and are using war as a mechanism to to drive

public support for

The direction they're going in so

Why would we focus any attention on any of the people that are really

Not relevant to this discussion

Yeah, but that's the point and I mean

Going back to Marcel. I mean a lot of people don't know you were talking about how he's helped

Uh numerous individuals over the years. I mean secret back to he was one of my very first interviews ever

Um, and I think that was back in 2020 and he was

heavily attacked by the German government particularly in fact you might remember they wanted to take him down

Um, and they took him legal and they wanted to absolutely destroy him and who was there to help secret was Marcel

Uh, and um

I mean

Only a good person would do that

Yeah, secret was also is a great man

He's one of the best absolutely one of the best

Sorry Charles go ahead. No, no, I mean I was only going to say you know that that story I think

Is um is absolutely sort of illustrative because

It you know in doing say that that action that Marcel took forged

You know very close bond

Between the two and to hear I don't know secret back to but to hear Marcel talk about him is um

You know, it is wonderful and I think it

It absolutely exemplifies

What we should be thinking about which should be which are the human relationships and

fostering positivity and concentrating on what can be done and what should be done and

dealing with

obstacles true obstacles that are put in our path and um

And to look at it the other way you know as you've just been alluding to I do find it completely remarkable

But also it sort of tells you everything you need to know

To see that people are dedicating their energies to

Yes attacking

those around them who are ostensibly apparently

Trying to well, I say trying to do the same thing there

They're apparently seeing many of the same things and yet the chosen course of action

For it seems like an increasing number of people. Maybe it's not an increasing number of people

Maybe it is just the sort of multiplier effect of social media, but but it it does at times seem like an increasing number of people are

Utterly

Blindsided by

the idea that

rather than concentrating on

the

things that they could be doing

About their own lives or about

Those that we discuss sort of add in for item, you know that the

The powers that be that corporations that those that are running corrupt governments and whatnot instead

There is a sort of turn inwards and a

You know and and sort of vicious attacking

And I think the part I think the point I'm making specifically we've gone to the back the

Relationship is is that it in doing the um

The sort of inward attack everything is negative. There's there's absolutely nothing positive about that. It is it is all

Bringing people down. It's all it's ego

Well, I think I think that is that is also true

But in you know, I talk about this a lot. So if you if you want to

Realize an intention or a dream or a goal or whatever you want to

Call it you have to

Visualize it in such a way that you believe that not only it's attainable, but you are actually going to attain it

and the reverse is true. So if you

don't believe that and you just want to wallow in

Sort of self-pity and negativity and sour grapes and all that sort of thing

Well, where's that where's that going to take you and and I I feel

It is a great pity that so many people have a tendency to get drawn

into this

As though it's meaningful

Of course, we're never going to be in a position where everybody

On supposedly sort of one side is going to be utterly unified in their

Thinking and their actions, but so hot

Concentrate on the overlapping ground and the positive steps and if there's something you see that you don't like fine

Just just steer clear of it, but to to get distracted to the point of that consuming your

Focus for your output is it is

It's a disaster really and and you know as I say a great pity for those who might once have seen

A better future but actually have become

Sort of diluted by the the absolute nonsense that swirls around and then and then to consider though

That's actually important and it's not it's just absolutely if enough and trivia and doesn't just doesn't deserve the time of day

Look that is really really important point jaren because because this is something that has frustrated me since

September 11th 2001 frankly

Because what happened with the this a perfect example what happened with the so-called 911 truth movement over the next

26 years as we are vastly rapidly approaching what happened was the divided across two camps

The architects for engineers camp and the junior group camp, right? Yes, and and what happened was they started fighting each other

And for the last 26 years they've been fighting each other 25 years. Sorry. They've been fighting each other, right

What is the point of that to counter whether you believe when no matter whether you believe exactly no matter whether you believe in

Control demolition or whether you believe in directed energy weapons

Both parties believe and kind of agree that it was not the aircraft that brought the buildings dying

So why not focus on that they can have their discussions about which is who's right about that

That is something that they can have internally within the movement

But the the the campaign point is it wasn't the aircraft that it was

Therefore a an inside job and that that inside job has been used to justify a whole host of historical events

It brought us to this point today where we're staring down the barrels of

Potentially global conflict or the very least technocracy, right? Yes

That that that focus of that entire effort should have been on that and everything else is superfluous to that

My this is the problem with the opposition movements

Yes, we are determined to rip each other's heads off instead of fighting the actual enemy

And it tries me nuts after met it. Yeah, it absolutely tries me up the wall

Me too. I'm having arguments lately with friends

Who are caught up in the same nonsense

Um, and I keep saying but what is the end goal here? What are you trying to do? Is it an ego battle?

Are you actually interested in taking down a the official narrative?

Um, or or you or you trying to fulfill the prophecy, you know made by Sun Si

When you destroy the opposition from within

Um, and I I see the same thing you mentioned 911 Mike the same thing with the whole no virus thing

Yes, 100% exactly the same. Yes

That argument about virus has been running for 150 years, 200 years, whatever it is

We're not going to solve it at this point in time

But let's all fight about it right now because that way we can distract ourselves and we're not actually having to deal with the

The real yeah, because guess what guys? We're scared of the real enemy

Right, and this is I think this is really what this is a psychology behind it aside from the fact that the real enemy is pushing in

You know

Narrators from outside. I think a large part of this is the fact that people would

Would prefer to be fighting amongst themselves and actually fighting the base that they see in front of them

Because that base is very very big and they're very very scared of it

And it's got lots of money and they don't really know what to do about it

There's a lot of very complex psychology going on here

There is well, and I think I think I think interestingly you know going back to where we started on this conversation

Yeah, Mike and I just had a trip to China. I'm nine Hong Kong

Marcel who've been talking about now

UK column

Shareholder really sort of important part of the team has worked in China worked in Japan worked all over Asia and

Has a company that operates in China. So

For this sort of thinking that we're describing the the confluence of

You know the idea of not confronting the things that should be confronted and indeed the

Spector of China as it's presented by the mainstream has just been a gift because

For the for the idle thinker that is a sort of all right. Yeah, okay

China and

UK column but sort of put them in the same sentence now and then we can do the the big

Sort of conjuring trick of which is exactly what the British government is doing which is to say

China is

China is a threat and there are things happening in China that that we must be very wary of and if we keep your

Eyes over there, then you won't

Pay attention to what's happening right here and you won't consider

That the conditions here are actually probably already worse than what's being described in I mean

China's the obvious example. It's so it's so easy. I mean in a way you could sort of pick your

Your threatening or problematic state elsewhere, but I do feel

China exactly is is just it is the ultimate proxy for

denying

What's right in front of you? It you know what what are you to do this

This terrible problem of what whether it's sort of Chinese surveillance spying or the fact that they're supposedly running this

awfully oppressive state where

Seems you can actually do more or less what you want to do

but nonetheless

Huge distraction and if you keep talking about it then again

In the same way you do not need to confront the things that are going on specifically in the UK around you about which actually if you focus you might be able to do something

Well going back to the 9-11 comment mic

So I interviewed a gentleman by the name of Mad Campbell

a few times actually and

he has spent I think

Close to 300,000 pounds if men reserves which is a huge amount of money sure not all of these own a lot of its donations and and all sorts of other things

Uh

Trying to get the British government to reopen the investigation so that he can actually find out what happened to his brother who died that day

What what has happened since he's getting attacked by the

directed energy weapons

Group saying oh, but you this is all controlled. It's it's gatekeeping blah blah blah. So what are they ultimately doing they're trying to stop

Something that's really really important

And by the way Marcel also helped

With the with the bit of the obvious legal obvious legal funds which obviously makes him a really bad person for doing that right

Because because that's only what that's only what controlled opposition folks do they they try and support the government

But I mean it it just blows my mind

When when people are are more interested in their own egos, but

Something in you and I spoke about Mike on the phone that there is also an element of design here this infiltration

Yes, I mean I would

Absolutely guaranteed that there's infiltration

in many of these campaigns and of course it's very very hard to

Identify exactly who by who those infiltrating voices might be

And and really at the end of the day we should um probably

Not be spending too much time or energy trying to work out exactly who it is

What we should be spending our time and energy doing is working out what the what the right

message should be and and trying to work out what is divisive

Within our within our communities and and trying to deal with the divisiveness

But we don't deal with it by fighting the people that are that are pushing water divisive narratives

We we we deal with it by making our

our positions are

the

The approach we're taking needs to be better, right? So I view each of these types of of attacks is an opportunity to

To rethink how we're presenting the information and and making that argument stronger if if if this is what I actually believe then

That's what I'm presenting

Then I've got to make that argument stronger or

And I'm not going to say that it has never happened. There are times when actually

It it causes me to rethink my argument altogether. That's that's part and parcel of

evolution of of positions and and actually analyzing the evidence

But you know deciding on what are the most productive

um

ways to make your points

and deciding when

That discussion about whether this is right or that is right should be something that happens

In the background and not something which is being presented out front

This is this is part of of of what we have to do every day and and hopefully we mostly get it right

Mm

Well not always but hopefully mostly

Well, obviously um and underlying theme here is China

And I want to just touch on this just a bit more because since I mean since you are there Charles and you were there

Mike and I was there and so now there's this common denominator

We all seem to have this connection to China and we've seen some of the comments on YouTube for example

They go oh you guys have become China column

Uh, so you might you might

See some of the feedback going oh, but you guys just making this excuses uh, you are becoming

China orientated

Anybody that thinks that hasn't been paying attention

Right because because I started talking about about this

Uh, 2015 2016

Part of the part of the reason I started talking about this was because it was absolutely clear

Going back

15-16 years it was clear that the British government has been um building

Um, a case for conflict with Russia and China

And they've been doing it very systematically and and the types of people that have been in the US government

But but let's just focus on Britain because because that's that that's really what we're mostly concerned about here

But but the people that we're driving these agendas

Where the likes of Richard dear love and I'm saying to people we'll hold on a second richer dear love is the man

Who we all agree

Created the yellow kick narrative which brought us to into war in Iraq

Which we all agree the Tony Blair is basically should be tried for war crimes as a result of we all agree that the Iraq war was was wrong

And the person who created that narrative was Richard dear love

Richard dear love comes long creating a narrative about Russia and China

And we say yeah, let's have that because we don't like Russia and China. So we agree with them

Sorry, that's not how it works in my book

That man it was was uh see he was head of MI6 he has an agenda now

I

Have never taken the position the China or Russia can do no wrong. They are governments and states and governments and states

Do things that people in those countries don't like

That's that's not the point. I'm trying to make my point

In what we have been doing since

I've been talking about this certainly since 2015 2016

Is to say well hold on a second the British government wants you to believe this about this country actually

There's another side of this and it's no way to let China off with anything in terms of technocracy or

You know the whatever's going on in central Africa with with child labor in in cobalt mines and these kinds of things

We should not be letting anybody away with anything

But what we've have got to do is to try to be a bit more objective about

What the country is and whether we should be

uh believing that

It is some kind of enemy that we've got a fight. I mean for example the perfect example of this was the whole campaign of a Huawei

Uh and Huawei equipment being on uh western

um

and british

5g networks

Why was Britain this was viewed or just being presented by the british government as being a national security issue

Why was it viewed as a national security issue was it because they were worried about

uh

Huawei's equipment being installed and then the Chinese government

hoovering up huge quantities of western data

Including government and military data or was it because every piece of Huawei kit

On the network means that it's not

Palo Alto networks or checkpoint

Uh, which is is really

Uh intelligence agency backed

Right and and therefore it's therefore the the western the five eyes

Plus israel can't get access to that information now in fact what Huawei did was

They give the british intelligence agencies the source code that was going to be running on every piece of kit

That was being sold in the united kingdom and actually my five and my six

Accepted that there was nothing wrong with it and but but for political reasons the decision was made that

That kid should not be there

So and enemy and in the meantime we're getting as we we highlighted on the uk column news just before we went to china

Stories in the telegraph which are just so absolutely ridiculous

It's

Higher could even be described as journalism is is beyond me

But suggesting that that china has got is is intending to to

Snoop on fiber optic cables that are running along with the street outside their new embassy in London

I mean the thing was just the story was just so

Encredible that uh, you know how they got away with it. I don't know. But anyway

So my point is

This is not something this our position on china our editorial position on china is not one

That that is new it's it has been something that's been running for years

It's designed it's it's intended to counter the

narrative which is

there to

Which is there to drive public opinion in the direction of conflict with a country that we don't need to be in conflict with

And it's it's

Have hypocritical in so many ways because

While every all the people that are in or in the uk that are being and they're being radicalized

Let's let's put the correct word on this of being radicalized to believe that china is this massive enemy

They're all buying their iPhones and their computers and their bits of tech and their

Plastic Tat let's all be made in china

So if you really don't believe that china is uh or if you believe the china is the enemy and stop buying Chinese goods

That that seems to be if otherwise is the your positions hypocritical it would be my argument but but anyway

Not of what we say is intended to ever let anybody rush your ore china off with anything

And if there's criticism to be made of those countries and goodness knows vinesis is criticizing both

heavily at the moment because of

their

Their position on

Syria on their position on gaza

And with some justification so so we aren't going to stop the critical voices

Yeah, even though I personally

I'm trying to to say to people look you got to you got to actually think about what it is you're being told about these countries because it's not necessarily true

I mean when i was in china i spoke

To both finesse and and with new web incidentally um and both of them we're we're giving me very very

um

Shall we say less than positive

Information about the chinese government because like every other country china has a government and it also has its own

Deep said and it also has its own warts

Um, but you see the problem here mic is

And you were basically saying this is that there is this deep rooted

psychology that has been the result of years and years and years of propaganda and anti-China indoctrination that the moment you say something positive

Anything positive about anything to do with china you're a shul or your grifter when I came back I received

More negative response than I think I did when I took on the vaccine during during the covert era. I've never experienced

such a harsh

um

Negative pushback and for what?

Simply for you know, but you know why germ the the reason is because of trumps position on china and for ige's position on china

Mm-hmm. That that's why people people need to stop

listening to

And to these types of of voices and and actually think about things and decide for themselves

But but you know, that's part of why we went and charles. I'm sure it's going to say something about this because because

At the end of the day we we should not be relying on on

Stuff that's out there. It's if possible. We should all be

Actually going and looking for ourselves

Um

Yeah, I think that's the that's the point of which I'd like to chime in because what fascinates me about china um

I mean it would apply to other places except that other places don't seem to draw fire in quite the way

In quite the same way that china does what what I find absolutely amazing is how invested

people can become in a narrative without any

First-hand experience or bit whatsoever

So you have people talking about the um the surveillance state in china

I didn't have my notebook out with me, but I was keeping a mental note of

For example the amount of CCTV cameras in the airports at each end

Without a doubt he throw airport had more cameras per square foot than anywhere else

we went

The idea that somehow

Having to fill out a form in order to apply for a visa for china is in some way

Uh and an out of the park or authoritarian measure is ridiculous. I have

Worked and traveled in more than 70 countries in the world

This is not unusual and actually look at what happened as a result of the storm of visit for brits 30 days

These are free travel

et cetera, so

Absolutely peculiar idea that china is in some way an outlier is completely extraordinary the only places I have ever felt

The um

Full force of the law let's say and taken a hiding from police and indeed been stolen have been um

Robbed by police was in Ukraine of all places again

Absolutely lovely place terrifically corrupt

Um

But you know, so some in what what's what's the point the other place the the only other place where I have encountered

Uh

Let's say unfair or incorrect policing has been in the united kingdom

And this is exactly my point yet we have people who are

largely basing the united kingdom who are absolutely convinced that what they're told about china

without visiting is

A true and B yes, so completely different from anywhere else and

I mean it is just not the case

I do caveat that of course because a doubtless

Some people will have thought are but um, you've just been there just this one time. Okay, it's not strictly true. I have been there

Once previously. I'm not I'm not claiming to be speaking from anything other than the very brief experience

I have had there so I'm going on what I have seen what I have heard and what I have gleaned from the conversations

I have had with people that do live there

but

I absolutely saw nothing

that was

beyond

the parameters within which

We exist in the west

absolutely nothing and the other point I would like to make which is a really important one

and Mike

spoke about the city Chongqing that we that we were in on

Wednesday's news program

One of the defining characteristics of it

First of all, it's a normal size. I think Mike said 20 something either the figure I'd heard was 32 million people

Either way there's a heck of a lot of people there

And yet in the time that we spent which was

Nearly a full week and we did travel out and about a lot

I saw not one

Instance of anything other than completely cordial behavior

There was a sense of complete calm in the place and

Before anyone might leap to the conclusion that I were it's because they're surveilled

It's because there are police you know sort of

tapping their truncheons on every corner

No, it's not

There that does not exist that is not a thing

and I can't

Explain why that is but it was a very very interesting talking point because particularly their car's arms on trip as well

He's from Chongqing he left in 1990 and just in passing actually I just said to him

It is search ordinary to come across a place with this

Concentrated population and to experience such in sort of complete tranquility

Okay, this was multiplied and then this is I'm not I'm not trying to sell

That the the concept but by large vehicles there are electric so there's it's really quiet

It's a sort of area actually because not only have you got quiet from the the roads themselves

But also quite from the people they're not screaming and shouting and seeking attention like like sort of British teenagers who

You know can't help but sort of spray fizzy drinks all over the place screaming and shouting just generally

You know that that sort of nuisance factor absolutely was not a thing

at all and

Yet

Karl was saying that when he left back in 1990 the

Sense of sort of friction and and crime in particulars completely different from how it is now and

The the water the talking point for that was I

Mike and I would be filming it some motorbikes parked out none of which were locked and even people just left their helmets

Unattended on top of the bike you would never do that anywhere in the UK now sadly

Maybe parts got in the Wales, but but basically wouldn't it would be half inched in in seconds

And and somehow and I believe

Across all of if not most of or sorry most of if not all of China

This is now a common factor and that went alongside the sense of

sort of order and discipline and also really strong

Um, I don't know quite how you describe it. I was gonna say family values

What was what was very very obvious was that people walked around in families and partly that's because

Internal tourism is such a big part of the economy

So anyway, go now is populated by norms numbers of Chinese tourists and so they're forced to answer the reason

They would be families and obviously we're now we're nearly at Chinese New Year

So that would that would explain it to a certain degree

But there really was a very very strong family thoughts, but the but the idea

Again, that you know China is this sort of downtrodden broken

Subjugated population because of the threat from the authorist or whatever

actually

Police were

Evident in places, but only they kept a very low profile

Absolutely nothing like driving round or walking round the city centre in

The United Kingdom where you would see many many more police vehicles you would absolutely

Without doubt see what I would describe as

nuisance or just agro or just

Chaos and there was none of that right there. So I'm not saying I know the answers. I don't I couldn't

articulate or trace back to

1990 or whenever that began to change and say why that has happened and yes, okay

that that undoubtedly

there may be an element of

um

control let's say or

the idea that

That not to tow the line

would have negative consequences, but

It that that was absolutely not an evidence and and people there was no demonstration at all that people felt sort of

You know fearful um

So that that was a very interesting point to make and and I think you know the way certainly the way Carl spoke about

I think we were talking to him more about this was the sort of thread

Between

And this is dangerous territory, but but the idea that

The population sort of pulled up by its bootstraps via means of education

regional investment in turn investment

and

And also the

You know embracing the idea of

Sense of national pride but in in a in a very genuine way and and then the other things are enough gone on for while the other thing

Which which I would just like to finish off by saying is um in terms of the sort of

You know

Going back to dear love and and whatnot the other thing people are utterly ignorant of is is the history of

China, but also the recent history concerning the British position and the British

Involvement in China we have done nothing to that country except for try to shaft it

And you look look back at the Victorian period and and what was happening there

You know the opium trade the opium wars the the ports the treaties

Absolutely at every turn the British sort to do nothing but exploit and cause havoc in China

Um

I was going to say that

During your

Dialogue there your monologue there Charles you were talking about them, but you are in China

Yeah

Just as a yeah as a point of accuracy

Yes, yeah, okay, sorry, but I'm just I'm just make because I'm in Hong Kong

I'm just making distinction because people do still get a touch about it

I'm making that distinction between Hong Kong China

But you see then then again, that's another fascinating thing and and I will bring this into the news

Next week because one of the big talking points in Hong Kong at the moment is the sentencing of Jimmy Li the you know supposedly

Uh

I sort of

You know force around which the freedom movement coalesced in 2019

Now I've had some very interesting conversations with people here who have first hand

Experience of some of the things that have been going on

Let's say slightly behind scenes. So so there's there's multi-colonial that but but that that is such a clear indication of

the

absolutely nefarious

nefarious foreign influence and you know that the and we see it all the time but but again this idea

that

China is the

negative or is exerting negative influence on Hong Kong

And therefore

People apparently are not going to or not going to allow themselves to see what

particularly in particular the United States and United Kingdom might be doing in order to present

That very impression and what benefit they may derive from such an outcome

extraordinary

There's also a very interesting dichotomy um

Because there's an inversion of reality, you know, you can go then you can say to people

Guys, it's not actually like that

Ah, but germ

Yes, a video of Jordan Peterson who's never been to China saying that they they they they have screens

You know on the streets where they make an example of people who Jay walk. No

I didn't see that anywhere. It doesn't exist

But no, it doesn't exist

but but but it's it's it's as Carl says it's Western projection

Okay, because the own system is imploding

And they don't like that so that like a cat that's caught in a corner. It's it's now it's it's what you call it um

Um, I've gone blank

There we go that you know, yeah, yes

Um, and it's exactly that because it is an inversion of what is true

Yeah, yeah it is

It's a total inversion. I mean I obviously what I would really love to do is be able to further substantiate my

point of view and my

recent observations by spending a lot more time there and and yes, I say particularly there because

It doesn't seem to be yeah, you know, sorry. No, I mean what okay, you're fine here too

But the the point is that whilst China is at the moment such a vector for this you know

It is a type of cognitive dissonance really and diversion distraction or all this sort of thing

It would be terrific to be able to build up a substantial body of evidence and I know you know to my point obviously

Really you can't speak about a place until you have lived there because of course you're never as a visitor

I don't know how long you spend that you're never going to be subject to the same sort of um

Influences upon your life until until you you know, especially if you're sort of

Painting tax owning property. How are you employed? We're all those sorts of things so clearly they they exert

particular effect on you

But nonetheless, I think the more one sees more and travels the more and speaks to people because that's it

You know, you just never know what sort of what kind of a conversation you're going to unlock and that and actually that going back to

What we were describing at the beginning in terms of rubbing shoulders with people who work in a totally different industry from what it is that we are doing

But actually the the mutual interest in one another's business was was was fascinating and

I you know, I drive great pleasure from that and and and I think you know

Gosh how bizarre I think but even in even in the United Kingdom

It's still slightly it can be slightly awkward to describe you know working for UK column

um

Depending on who you are talking to and sort of putting out there what it is you do do and how you how you frame that and all of it

You don't get an immediate sort of knee jerk negative reactions a little bit tricky, but actually

This discussing this in China of all places, you know irony upon irony was very straightforward and people people absolutely got

Utterly what it is that we do and why we do it and why it's important

So anyway, well, I mean you know we could go on but no, I mean

In

As objective as sense as I can come here

It was a totally fascinating, but but also overwhelmingly

positive

Experience and and I and I just reiterate the point that I'm this is not just

uh comparing

China with the United Kingdom this is comparing China with many many other places

um in the world and I think it

it

It's the most popular country on earth. It is one of the biggest. I mean, why would we not

uh talk about it? Also, it's history. I think the other thing

that there's

I think really then must under the surface be to an extent a terrific sense of perhaps jealousy because you see what what China

But you have I mean it would have it would appear to be deliberate, but what China has

managed to do

Even at this stage in 21st century is is absolutely retained control over its

So customs and it's yes exactly and and that it's fun enough. I've I've I've

I should come from the Maritime Museum

In Hong Kong which gives a fascinating account of the early days of maritime

Exploration in China and then the conscious decision in the 15th century

That it would not be pursued and

so

whilst that

effectively left the door open for

the

Western

powers as they came to be to take over great swathes of the the world via trade and

you know stick um or

Rifle however you you want to describe it

What it allowed was for China to

develop

Inside internally, you know in its own way effectively unfast by the rest of the world

Okay, and then that was controlled to a degree to a greater degree

through having just canton as the

trade you know the sole trade route and of course the language being

Relatively speaking and still today very inaccessible whereas of course for the

For the English language and the British Empire. It's been absolutely completely the other way around

and again

Not just trade but but expeditionary warfare intervention

Whatever you whatever you describe it as and look at the things that people are complaining about now in terms of

Migration in particular and this is this is why I think

You know, Mike just they're going back into why he was talking about China from from when he was

But I think this pertains to all the countries that we do talk about yes

We are UK column news

But a massive part of first of all the UK's history has been meddling in the affairs of people all over the world

And therefore the the the backlash of that is is exactly what people are

Identifying now so it is completely relevant that we talk about other parts of the world

But that is a that is a critical distinction between

Certainly over that period of history anyway between the way in which the British

Well empire as it became

executed its

Ains compared with China which okay you might say that's that's in a way just a different point on the timeline in the China

I think

I would still regard really as as an empire rather than a country and we talk about shenjian for example being totally different sort of ethnically culturally whatever it's because

At the time that that land mass became known as China

Obviously the rest of the world was doing different things. So anyway, that's sort of splitting hairs

Um, but it it is I think it is really really significant

So I'll say the sort of jealousy aspect that the United Kingdom now, you know for a lot of people

On migrations the big issue digital ID migrations the big issue

uh sort of

either

Passive or very active racism or all this and the other

But in fact you look at why it's happened then it does make a

Clear delineation between what people in the United Kingdom and from the United Kingdom

We're doing compared with China and and how how that's how the fruits of these

Two different parts are sort of being being born today

I just want to point out also that uh

Even though I've been called a Chinese a China shul or CCP shul or all those wonderful

Terms which don't really matter all that much

I still love living in South Africa um, and I don't know why I would be labeled these things if I

If I say guys

They are good and bad things. I think China is incredible. Let me tell you something

You know if we setting a low bar

Living on the African continent. It doesn't get much lower than that um, and

I would love the past 30 years

For us to have imported some of the stuff that that the Chinese government did with its own country

Um, how how it

Not everything. I'm not a fan of mass surveillance at all

Uh, but they but there is

Something that they did right a bunch of things that did right and a pile of things that we did wrong

and

We still live in a completely broken system here where is their system is flourishing

So they are good things to to learn and they certainly are

Uh, uh, bad things that you don't want to learn

And I think that's a completely neutral and reasonable approach

I

Think so I mean, I think I think I think um to take the position that

That China is a fascinating place but they're not going through it. Doesn't that certainly mean that you want to live there?

Love the uh, yeah, yeah, I don't I don't think I do want to live in China

But but I think a very interesting point to make is that all an important point to make

Whilst I have no desire to go and live in China

I do firmly believe that if I did live in China, I would be treated with

Uh

respect and I would be treated as

In effect um

Perhaps rather strange equal

whereas I was talking to

Um

A couple of Hong Kongers Chinese Hong Kongers last night who are in their 70s

with close connections

but to

Sort of the United Kingdom and British society and whatnot

and

It was very interesting. I

One point that was made to me was that they would absolutely not ever

Move to the West but not to the UK particularly because

They would be treated like it in their words fourth-class citizens

And I thought that was it. I mean, I didn't disagree with it. I absolutely agree with it because this is where this is exactly where people have been

Brainwashed indoctrinated radicalized all the rest of it

But but what an indictment

to

You know, and it goes back to this whole thing of of where we started the sort of infighting or backstabbing or whatever it is with the negativity

And it's it's the same the the loss of

Uh respecting

One another is

You know, it's a disgrace and um and we should be we should be learning or relearning from people that still hold that dear

So I find that a very a very interesting comment. I mean, but we're only just starting

Yeah, but that's so gone miccos that's that that is the point isn't it because because whatever whatever we're experiencing at the column um is is

Is indicative of the types of conversations that are going on right across British society and Western society as a whole at the moment

And because there is all this beckering and infighting and and uh hit for each other

Um that that is your heart of the that's part of the collapse that we are experiencing

I mean, you know

I said I said on the on wednesties

Extra I mentioned the fact that you know people are no matter what the what the regime is that they're that they're living under people

The people that I've met in China are optimistic that they they enjoy life

Um, and you look around you look around the cities and you know

Chongqing itself the actual city has well 10 12 million people in it and the and the region around it as whatever the number is

Charles thanks 30

It doesn't matter the population density is huge

it within that city

and but

The streets are clean. There are no potholes in the roads

uh the the the infrastructure works

um and so on now is that because

That this is where they are in their in their

The cycle of things at the moment in the sense that that because that city has has massively exploded in terms of of development in the last 10 to 20 years

Everything's new everything's fresh everything's exciting and and maybe that's part of it whereas in the UK we are coming to the end of a cycle

uh and and so you know just just the the organization the money that it would take

To fix the potholes in the road

Is it's going to be huge, but we're not going to we're not going to achieve that with this constant bickering and in fighting whether that's at the political level at the top of society or

Or at the at the small-minded level at the most local

Local base. Yeah, so somehow we've got a we've got to take a step back as a society and and look around

At ourselves and that and look at ourselves and and work out is this is this how we really how we want to live

um and

That that is going to be a difficult thing for us to do, but if we don't do it

We're we're only heading and you know the direction of travel is important here and we're heading in the wrong direction

So that has to be changed somehow

Yeah, it does

I think the the positivity and and the energy. I mean I

We were we was going I mean we said it wasn't isolated, but

Might one of the things that absolutely stuck out as such a common trust was seeing

teams of workman road builders or whatever

And they were all working and

To anyone who's involved in that sort of trade listening. I'm sorry if this causes offense, but seriously

Find me a team of road workers or whatever in the United Kingdom where any more than one person is working at any time

12 bloke standing around smoking one bloke working

That is that is how it's done and and in try I mean this I know the sign silly

But honestly if if you could tell a story

About a country with one anecdote

This would be it every single man Jack they just got on with it

And I I do believe for whatever reason I'm not I can't explain the psychology of that

I cannot tell you why that's the case, but I do definitely believe that if that's the way stuff worked in the United Kingdom

Life would be very very different

All right, we are running out of time. So this week was China next week Iran

Yeah

Yeah, but why not well there we go. I mean, I'll tell you what as a as a as a preview

You know as much as as much as people get riled about China

I mean the other thing the other thing that that UK column gets continuously hammered for is are you know you love muslims

Yeah, well actually I do and the reason for that is that having been to

Well over 15

largely muslim or at least you know countries that have sort of based on some sort of Muslim heritage

I have never experienced great hospitality anywhere in the world and as an example

absolutely brilliant story driving in

Uzbekistan

Sorry wrong kyrgyzstan

Absolutely in the middle of nowhere with with somebody I can't refuse taxi driver or whatnot the car broke down

Like great, okay, sort of getting late

No one that so

What happened the next car that passed us

drove us all to the first house that we came to

The driver of the vehicles with a friend the driver took us to the house

said to the people who owned the house

Here you go they'll stay with you tonight because I've got to go and fix the car

He then went back with the person who'd stopped went off to wherever got spares came back anyway

So with absolutely no questions asked

Two of us were taken into this house with open arms fed

Provided with a bed. I mean absolutely. Can you imagine that happening in

Suffolk

No

So you know

So so why why are we so determined to do the all look over there. They're all bad

projection nonsense

projection

All right, so guys there we are all right nice chatting Charles are you back home next week?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

All right, good man. I'll check you guys

Yeah, you're absolutely are back to the rear

Yeah, I'm stealing myself for the return. Yeah

Yeah, all right. Cheers guys. Okay. Thanks. Thanks. Yeah. Okay. Bye. Bye