Unraveling the Cattle Mutilation Mystery

You're home alone. You have an uneasy feeling in the darkness like someone or something is watching you.

Why is it suddenly cold in this room? You hear footsteps, whispers, or even laughter. You go to check.

You feel a presence behind you and then the fear sets in. I'm K-town and you're listening to paranormal fears.

Christopher O'Brien from 1992 to 2002 investigative journalist Christopher O'Brien covered hundreds of unexplained events reported in the San Luis Valley.

In Colorado and New Mexico working with law enforcement, ex-military members, ranchers, and an extensive network of sky watchers. He documented some of the most intense waves of unexplained activity seen in a single region of North America.

His 10 plus year investigation of UFOs, mutilations, Indian legends, crypto creatures, secret military activity, and the folklore are around in the three books of his mysterious Valley trilogy.

And he's produced one of the largest databases of 40 Anna gathered from a single geographic region is 2009 book stalking the tricksters has been called an ingenious attempt to provide a unified theory that ties together and explains divergent multicultural phenomenal events and is a sobering early admonishment warning of the possible peril inherent in artificial intelligence.

His latest book stalking the herd in 2015 is the most comprehensive book ever written on the subject of cattle mutilations.

It's being hailed as the Bible examining this complicated misunderstood mystery. So I'd like to welcome Christopher O'Brien. How are you doing today, Chris?

Wonderful. You have quite a background and I have to say it's so in depth, it really has, has me intrigued because I saw the depth of that book in hundreds of pages that you put together.

So I'd love to dive in a little bit into all of your work, but I always like to start with the beginning because what on earth drives the normal human being to look into these topics?

Well, yeah, that's a fair question. I'm an experienced or I had a close and personal experience with nonhuman entities when I was seven years old.

Six getting ready to turn seven in spring of 63 1963. It kind of shows my age a little. And I knew after this particular event that we lived in a intensely more complicated reality than I was.

My first great teacher would would admit or priest or parents or books and TV and media would admit and that has always driven me with that knowledge of.

That we're not alone that there is something else that co-exist with us. I didn't see any craft. I didn't see any real evidence of anything off planet. What I saw were nonhuman entities that are today.

As long together in the classification of grace, if you will, the ones I saw were kind of a dirty white color. It was really hard to make them out because it was three o'clock in the morning and I did not have good light sources to really ID them the way I would have liked.

It was a very eye-opening experience and of course my parents said I was sleepwalking and having nightmares and I've never had nightmares since like that or done any sleepwalking.

My little brother who was a year younger than me, he believed me, but the rest of the family kind of.

They just chalked it up to maybe eating too big of a meal at night or something. Anyway be that as it may I have always gone through.

My everyday existence knowing that there's something infinitely more complicated going on in our reality than our culture and our society would like to admit.

I find these last five years that we've been undergoing this newfound openness around the subject of, well do you want to call them identified aerial phenomenon or UFOs.

I find them very, very intriguing. I didn't for many, many years, for decades, I didn't think we had a snowball chance in hell of seeing this kind of openness occur at least during my lifetime and the fact that we are talking about crash retrievals and biological entities and stuff in Congress is just mind-blowing to me.

I think that this is really the beginning of a new chapter in human existence and I think we're getting close to a time.

Whether it's a catastrophic disclosure or whether it's a gradual advantage you watch disclosure, we are going to have a world that is substantially different than the one that we all recognize today.

I don't think today's generation really gets the blood sweat and tears that went into coming to this moment and I think that and we stand on the shoulders of so many greats and as you and I were discussing just before we came on here was we're losing a lot of greats.

And you know it's like what's going on here here we're at this epiphany in research and now you know we're losing these people.

Where do you hope to see things go in your research it has evolved to just go into so many different arenas that a lot of people don't go into especially that cattle mutilations.

That one is a really difficult one and I'd love to hear more about how you got into that and how you gathered so much information.

Well you know again you made the comments earlier before we went on the air of standing on the shoulders of giants and I literally was helped and taken you know taken really and educated by Linda Moldenhau, David Perkins, Tommy Blant, Tom Adams.

I mean the list goes on New Mexico State Patrol and gave well there's quite a number of sheriffs from New Mexico and Colorado they were you know kind enough and opening up and sharing enough to to help me become up to you know get up to speed and become well versed into the very scientific disciplines as an amateur that you need to be you need to be familiar with whether it's veterinary apology whether it's crime scene investigation.

Techniques whether it's gathering biological samples whether it's plants soil or forensic samples and conducting good science I had a lot of help and if I hadn't had that help there's no way I could have ever come close to you know compiling and amassing the kind of huge amount of data that I've been able to include and stocking the herd which actually but that was 900 pages.

When I finished it and I had to take 300 pages out because it was just too big my publisher wouldn't when published the whole thing so it's 600 pages but it gives you a day by day week by week month by month year by year just case history of the of the reported aspect of the phenomenon along with a real in depth looked at our relationship with Cal that stretches back to 1500 to 13,000 years.

And how cattle have gone from something that was one of the most revered things in our reality and worshiped to trying to stay on the back of one for eight seconds in the professional grow pro rodeo circuit bull riders or in the case of some of the other uses of cattle.

If you go to India, cattle are revered and of course they can wander in and out of your house and it's considered good luck to let them come in and they have nursing homes for cows and in India.

The cattle are just an amazing creature and we have an amazing history and relationship with cattle and I start to book out looking at this relationship and how it is devolved into the cattle mutilation mystery and

then you know I go through the whole like I said the whole case history of what we know of the phenomenon starting back at 1605 in London where the sheep farmers around the areas of London.

The early months of the reign of James I were hundreds of sheep are being mutilated and inward parts were taken and the fleece in the meat was left behind but as the entry in the court record ends it goes well this sundry conjectures

but most would agree if it tended toward fireworks. So that's the earliest document in case of livestock mutilation that I've been able to uncover and look at.

But these cases have been occurring alongside us since 16 to 1600s and of course in the 70s it went full blown and we were getting as many as eight states in a single night were being targeted by these mystery mutilators.

And it's just it's really misunderstood subject you know people who have really invested in into the alien theory of the perpetrators behind the mutilations they've done a pretty good job of skewing the understanding of this mystery over the years where people say cattle mutilations

and the first thing you think of is a cow being sucked up into a saucer which is a mean that I started back in the early 90s when I found a cattle crossing sign one of the yellow square you know the diamond shaped yellow signs with a cow on it.

So many put a UFO above it above its head raised coming down and I put that in my website in the 95 or 96 when I had my first website and now that meme has gone around the world and is being used in major advertising campaigns and everything.

So it's interesting how this this sort of skewed view of the cattle mutilations phenomenon has been propagated by land now and other investigators who are absolutely convinced that aliens are coming down and gathering genetic material for whatever reason.

And of course whenever I hear that first thing I say is well why don't they just break into an abattoir or slaughterhouse and there's huge vats of genetic material they could have as much as they wanted without having to sneak around in the pastures of the world you know picking on poor Bessie and farmer Brown.

The alien as perpetrator theory just doesn't doesn't make sense to me and I think there's a lot more.

There's a lot more data and evidence that would suggest something far more down the earth is going on not to say that we're not dealing with something at its core that's that's high stranger paranormal but I think of vast majority of these cases are human perpetrators.

It's interesting here you're the person that's helped encourage that meme around the world and you're taking it out of the skies and back down the earth.

Yeah it's just amazing how these these memes and these these cultural sort of details of respond and then spread.

I find meme propagation is just a highly fascinating subject and I'm always conscious of of watching how my work might inadvertently spin off and have unintended consequences the whole idea of of just showing the world that somebody thinks that there's UFOs hovering over cows in the sandwich valley by you know manipulating the highway sign.

It's just interesting how something as simple as that and as innocuous as that can all of a sudden you know spring into this kind of industry really where David Perkins and I David of course might as a research associate that we lost in August.

Unfortunately he was he was the grandfather of the relation mystery believe me he knew more about it than anybody way more than I did I learned so much from him but he he was collecting for years now he's been collecting.

Last 25 years he's been collecting the various examples of the meme of the saucer sucking up the cow in the in the beam of light.

And last can I think he was up around 150 of these separate images and I even found a lamp that cost me a lot of money I've got it from from a place in Australia and I gave it to him for his birthday one year and.

It's it's just amazing how memes propagating and I think that the cat immediately mystery is not immune to it.

Yeah no that's that is really fascinating how that that that kind of happens you know I am thinking of the person that's hearing the words cattle mutilations for the first time.

And you describe what a typical cattle mutilation about and what generally occurs around it.

Yeah and in the first use of the word the term was by Charles for the book is down which is I think written in the 20s cat mutilation is a head of livestock and generally it's its cows but horses goats pigs all kinds of farm animals have been found in this condition along with deer and elk and.

Bison and other wild animals have also been found dead for no apparent reason missing various soft tissue organs whether it's the genitalia whether it's the rear end of the animal it's a female the the others on a cow often are surgically excised they look like real pristine cuts generally there's no bleeding of the wounds.

When these organs are taken from the body often it's an eye or ear or a patch of skin or most often which what we classify as a classic relation is when the tongue is taken from deep down in the throat along with lymph glands down there and it's very very difficult cut to make to get all the way back in the back of the throat.

And pull the tongue out from from the roots basically with the surgical precision vet and ecologist have a hard time doing that duplicating that particular cut but the manable flesh is also taken away and the job bonus is unnaturally glistening white color if it's a true classic mutilation and it's very very difficult to duplicate that that effect on the job on a freshly killed animal.

You could boil that job on in a lie solution on the stove and not be able to duplicate the polished white kind of ghostly white color of the of the job on that when we see that that's that's the tell tale clue that we're dealing with the classic mutilation.

No, it's amazing. There's so many people that like you said they associated only with the UFOs but you're speculating or your research is pointing to something more earthly.

I dare not think how dark this could go and I really like hesitant to ask we know that people can be really dark but are we talking about something that's interdimensional?

Well, again, we have to there's multiple groups involved in this with various agendas. They're not all working together, shall we say, and they're not they're not all equal at the very core.

Generally, the first few cases of an outbreak are going to be the high-strange cases that you can't explain on forensic science.

And those are the cases that probably are the ones that extend all the way back into history before the time of high-tech medical procedures in dark fields which a lot of them end up being.

But back in the 1800s, in the 16 1700s, there was some sort of predator that exists alongside of humans that may not be fully incarnate.

In other words, it has the ability to go to shapeshift in and out of this particular reality similar to some sort of specter or you know, a trickster type form, if you will.

And it generally leaves behind the highest, highest-strange cases that you can't explain like brains missing from skulls with no break into the cranium.

And the thin membrane around the brain, the dura still left intact at one case like that.

And cases where the upper respiratory organs are taken out of a small hole in the animal's neck is another case where an animal, they did a knee-copsie on the animal and found out that there was no spinal cord that the spinal cord had somehow been taken out with no break into the body cavity or break into the spine.

I had another case of that Narayan called me and said he went to help one of his cows give birth, but it's rear end had been all scarred closed and he couldn't figure out how that had happened.

And he had to literally surgically open the rear end of the animal to allow the fetus to come out.

And when the fetus was born, it had been mutilated inside the womb.

These are cases that you cannot explain with just, you know, modern forensic science.

And these are the cases that are least likely to be reported and the ones that scare the ranchers the most.

All the other cases, and I'd say the vast majority of real colonified cannimulation cases are done by very skilled teams that are operating human teams that are operating clandestinely out in the fields.

But whatever reason, and they appear to be monitoring the environment.

So it's not so much the animal.

It's where the animal is located in the environment.

I think that's the key here.

And we have a couple of possible agendas that could be applied.

One thing that David Perkins noticed really early on in the mid to late seventies was that if you take a map of above ground radiation

from the 100 above ground nuclear tests in the Nevada test site, where the southwest winds would blow all that radiation into the Rocky Mountain States, and then a lot of it would then settle in the Midwest.

And if you overlay a map of the mutilations where your area's hardest hit by the mutilation phenomenon, let's say in the seventies and eighties, it perfectly matches the overlay of the radiation deposits in the environment.

So there may be a correlation between above ground pollutants, especially radiation.

And if you go downwind and downstream of where we utilize uranium, whether it's in power plants in missile silos, weapons and Richmond facilities, uranium mines, places where they do medical process medical uranium for medical instruments.

If you go downwind and downstream of these areas, that's where you're going to find the highest incidence of counter mutilations when they were hot and heavy in the eighties and seventies.

So once you start looking at the evidence and the data and you start really kind of crunching the numbers, if you will, and really looking at the data, you'll find that there seems to be some sort of human agenda.

And it may also include the fear of mad cow disease breaking out into the food chain.

It's a hundred percent fatal up to a forty year incubation.

It's, you know, Colm Keller heard the guy that administered the twenty two million dollar ASOP budget on the skin walker ranch with Robert Bigelow owned the ranch before Brandon Fugel bought it.

He was the managing director of the of the grant that was, you know, arranged like senators read and Stevenson in a way.

He wrote a book called Brain Trust, which very few people read and it kind of disappeared without a trace, but it's a slam dunk indictment of the mutilation phenomenon as being due to the fear of mad cow disease.

And he also proves that the rampant increase in dementia deaths in this country were without five thousand percent increase in dementia deaths in the last twenty five, thirty years could possibly be due to free on disease, which is the misfold protein that causes mad cow disease when it goes full loan to kill you eventually.

And his his book brand brain trust is just a mind board and I can't believe that he was only able to sell a few thousand copies.

I guess it was just too, too horrific for people to, to really contemplate if you find a copy of it, it's very expensive, but if you find a copy in a, a used bookstore, get it and read it.

It's really important material and it ties directly the catamulation phenomenon to the fear of outbreak of mad cow disease in our food chain.

So maybe it's the beef industry that's also involved in this.

Whoever it is, there's multiple groups and they're all bouncing their agendas off of each other and they're all based around some sort of primordial predator that's been alongside humankind with probably thousands of years.

And maybe responsible for the, the high-strange cases.

I goodness, you know, I've heard more recently a theory that the cows are being taken immutilated to create clones of humans.

So that's the latest that I'd heard, but other than that, it's been one of those things where it's like, how, how do you track this down?

You know, I find that interesting that your, your point of there being white, why haven't they just gone into a place and just pulled all the cows out if that's what they really wanted, you know, they, but instead it's these scattered cases that we're hearing from all over the place.

So we're to think that whoever it's doing it, they're just don't have the budget to have their guy go out and purchase these cows and said they're napping them.

I mean, isn't that one of the older things our horse thieves who got cattle thieves going on?

Yeah, well, the government does buy cattle and they raise cattle for various reasons.

And there was one very interesting scenario that happened in the late 90s when an EPA scientist named Brian Rimmer was tasked with raising livestock

in the San Luis Valley along the Alamosa River downstream from where it was polluted way up in the mountains, about 40 miles up in the San Wands.

The Summitville Goldfields had a leaching operation that spilled out and polluted the top 17 miles of the Alamosa River.

Well, 40 miles downstream where the river comes out into the valley and waters all the agriculture and all the livestock in the valley with the canals and ditches that come off the river.

He raised for three months, he raised livestock and then took them into the lab and mutilated them and was horrified to find that they shouldn't have been alive, that they had up to 600 times the amount of heavy metals in them that they should have.

Should have all been, most of them should have been dead already and when he went and showed the findings to his supervisors, he said,

well, who's going to write the press release? Who's going to have the press conference?

So do you want me to do it? Or do you have somebody else, a PR guy in mind and they said, what press conference?

You're not releasing any press release or you're not having a press conference.

We can't tell people this, you'll start a panic. And he said, well, wait a minute, these people are eating the crops that are being watered by polluted water and the livestock is being, you know, inundated with heavy metals from this polluted water.

We have to warn people, this is a health hazard. And they said, no. And he said, well, that's it. I'm quitting.

And he quit in protest and he resigned and he went to Westway magazine, which is a local kind of, you know, woke up a liberal magazine in Denver and did a huge exposé.

Well, I find it really interesting that during that time period where he was doing his study, I had seven mutilations and all of them occurred on the Alamos River outside of where he was grazing his livestock for the study.

So I had seven cases. Now that can't be a coincidence. It's just too, it's just too, too perfect timing.

So I mean, that's just another example of the government actually raising their own livestock and mutilating it for, you know, in this particular scenario to check the impact of a polluted river on the livestock.

So we really, this is way more complicated than simple aliens coming down the gallium material to clone humans.

I mean, that's, that doesn't even sound like a good science fiction storyline. It sounds so implausible.

But anyway, I do think that this, you know, I think a good example of predicting the future with David's environmental monitoring theory with the radiation.

When we had the Fukushima event happen and the big cloud of radiation came across a Pacific in April 2011.

Normally, we don't have very many mutilations west of the Rockies because it's upwind of the Nevada test site perhaps.

Very few cases in in California, Oregon and Washington, have been cases British Columbia.

They've been cases over the years, but compared to the number of cases in the Midwest and the Rockies, it's just very, very few. It's rare.

So I told David that if there's some, you know, something to be said behind the radiation monitoring theory, we should see an outbreak of mutilations on the, on the west coast where this plume of radiation came across.

Well, sure enough, we've had over 200 cases in Oregon, which very few people even know about.

People have heard about the 21 cases or 23 cases that have happened, but there was one ranch that was hit over 200.

They had a livestock starting in 2012 and there's going to be a TV show that's going to cover it that's coming out this summer.

Anyway, I really have a sense that there's something to the environmental monitoring theory.

That and the fear of mad cow disease, I think are the two.

I think agendas that make the most sense to me, having investigated 200 cases myself out of those 40 were real mutilations that were done with, with sharp implements or heat.

And out of those seven or eight, I could not explain and were very, very disturbing.

So that's what 10% of all the cases that I went out on in 10 years, but then a couple, you know, a few years later.

It's my least favorite thing to do, by the way, is investigate immutilating.

Yeah, livestock, it's really, it's not for everybody else.

How do you account for people who claim to have seen a light and then seeing the cattle being mutilated?

You know, there's been over 350 helicopter sightings in and around mutilation sites.

And three county sheriffs count them.

Almost brought one of the helicopters down.

That was that was seen flying around the field where violated cattle were laying.

And then the sheriff brought his deputies out.

Two of them later went on to become sheriffs.

And they tried to bring it down. They almost shot it down.

It was smoking and clanking.

Sheriff Sanable said that he didn't, he would have been surprised if it made it back to Fort Carson,

which was the way that it was headed when it left.

The San Luis area and along the border with New Mexico had it back towards Colorado Springs, a clanking and smoking.

So, you know, I've heard stories, procreful stories of people seeing UFOs, you know,

very few cases of UFOs and cows in the same scenario.

There was one case in Missouri where a rancher and his wife saw them loading a cow up into this craft

and the duty-dirty, abduction account.

She said that she saw a cat being mutilated.

And I think when the house said you mean calf and she said whatever.

So, a cat became a calf.

There's not many people are aware of that.

So, are you feeling then that attention is being brought to these stories that somebody has another wild connotation attitude of a UFO?

Being the culprit.

Yeah, you know, I tried to get Linda to sit for an interview with me for my book and that she said, well,

you're going to say that it's aliens that are doing this and I said, I'm looking at all the possible explanations.

And she said, so you're muddying the waters and I said, what do you mean?

And she says, these are aliens doing this and that's it.

If you're going to say anything else and go with anything else, I'm not interested in helping you.

And I said, well, wait a minute, what about the 300 plus helicopter sightings?

Well, those are UFOs masquerading as helicopters.

Occam's razor.

I mean, if you can shoot at it and it starts clanking and making smoking, chances are you get a helicopter and not a UFO.

There's been a handful of reports of helicopters becoming balls of light and flying off.

These are very, very rare.

Sure, we may have aliens coming down and trying to figure out why all these livestock are being mutilated.

Maybe wanting to get in on the fun, but the vast majority of these cases are done by humans.

They're done with sharp implements.

They are not drained of blood.

There's, which is a popular misconception, these always drained of blood.

Some of these animals will not be approached by scavengers, but not all.

There's a lot of mutilations that scavengers will come in once they lose their fear of the fight.

I think humans have been trampling around a dead animal.

The animals are familiar with the human sense.

They lose their fear and they go in and they start scavenging.

If an animal dies of poison water or poison plants, animals that scavengers know not to scavenger the animal.

Oftentimes, the animal will sit there and just melt into the field and nothing will touch it.

Generally, out in the desert areas where I was trampling around for 10 years, you have very, very low humidity.

The animals stay pristine in the environment, especially during the colder months.

I've had animals that are real pristine and you can really tell that something did it with much more skill and with a real purpose and a real agenda.

What of the cattle that are said to leave a crater as if they were dropped from a very high level?

What of those?

They don't leave a crater. Basically, they break the horn off into the ground.

The horn is going into the ground or the animal.

Just the weight of the animal, hitting the ground, pulverizes the ribs on the upper side, for instance,

on the inertia of all of the weight hitting the ground.

They break the upside bones as well as the downside bones.

You can often tell an animal will hit it and the horn will twist its neck and it will appear that the animal's head is twisted backwards.

These are animals that are not dropped from that high.

They can be dropped from as little as 20-25 feet and you'll have quite a bit of damage because you're dealing with hundreds of pounds of inert flesh.

I've had quite a number of cases where animals have been dropped.

We've had evidence of that with broken horns and broken skulls and twisted necks.

We've also had cases of animals with clamp marks on their rear, rear haunches of the animal or the rear legs appear to have been abraded by some sort of clamp or clamping mechanism.

We've also had a case where the animal had been cooked from the inside out by microwaves.

The animal had appeared pristine except for the cuts and when they did the knee-coffs, the meat was cooked.

There is no rhyme or reason. There's no one-size-fits-all answer to this.

We are dealing with multiple groups with multiple agendas, all balancing and hiding their agendas around the other ones.

It's interesting. What do you think of the claims that there have been actually humans who have been mutilated in a very similar fashion?

There have Richard T. Hall, who's an investigator in England, uncovered that the SAS, the Special Services Branch of the Military in England, has a quick, rapid response team that is tasked with covering up human relations.

He uncovered a bit of information, some photographs of some victims.

There was a pretty salacious, misunderstood case in Brazil in 1988.

There was written about by Jesus Schoep Schoen right outside of San Paulo, Brazil, where a guy was found mutilated and just like the cows.

The autopsy report was leaked to the press.

Even though it wasn't supposed to be released and it was supposed to be hidden, he kept secret.

It did get publicized and he just got online and you can find the very gruesome photographs of the guy.

No UFOs were ever staying around it or reported in the vicinity.

It's just a guy that all his upper respiratory organs pulled out a hole in his elbow, go figure that one out.

It's disturbing.

Yeah, it's pretty graphic and pretty gross.

There were cases, supposedly of two hunters in Idaho, Don Eckert, the ex publisher of UFO Magazine.

The guy, him and his wife, Vicki started UFO Magazine.

He worked for three years as an ex homicide detective.

Three years trying to track down human medallation cases and was basically told, don't bother.

This is not something that you need to know about.

There's no reason for you to be doing this.

Stop cease and desist because you're going to get yourself in trouble if you keep pushing.

The only time I was ever told to cease and desist by a normally very, very helpful New Mexico state patrol

was when I heard about a case down in Silver City in New Mexico and started asking around about a young teenage girl.

It was discovered, mutilated down there.

And boy, I got the, I was slammed on.

They said, do not ask about this.

Do you want me to confirm it?

Then I stop.

Don't call anybody else about it.

You've been, you've been warned.

So it's very, very, it's the most difficult subject that you can investigate in research within the...

So-called paranormal community.

By far, there's nothing even comes close.

Yeah, from somebody who had a very peculiar encounter goes into what once appeared to be a very paranormal UFO type of phenomena, only to find it's very human.

So were you disappointed in what it was that you came across?

No, not at all. I don't, I don't do this for any less for a result.

I do it because it's just, it's something that, you know, it's a tough job.

If somebody's got to do it, there's nobody else that was willing to put 300,000 miles on there.

They're trucking six years and run around and investigate these cases and try to help the ranching community and try to help the local law enforcement.

I had no, you know, I started out thinking that it's got to be aliens. What else could it be?

And in less than two weeks, I knew that there was way more complicated.

As soon as I started talking to people that had been involved in on the ground research and investigation,

I realized right away that there was way more to this whole thing than a simple alien, as perpetrator explanation, way more complicated.

Do you find that you were in some very sticky situations where you felt a little bit threatened that you got so close?

No, no, not at all. The only time I felt threatened that I was getting close to something was when I was investing on the ground military facilities along the New Mexico Colorado border.

That's when I went into a place of very serious fear.

And these happened all over the world. So, and you said since the city.

No, they only happened in Christian countries.

Now, that's an interesting element. Now, why do you think that is?

The same reason why the sacred white cattle of India is a Brahma.

I've never found a single Brahma in all of millions of Brahmins around the world.

I've never found a single case of a Brahma being mutilated. Go figure.

Now, that is not even of the human kind of mutilation.

No.

Where do we go from here with all of this? I mean, how do you wake up the people?

The people who say, look, I'm the one that created this whole Bible of such.

What do we do with this, Chris?

Well, it's, I think it's basically, it's a warning that we're not going to be able to utilize beef as a protein source for very much longer.

Be for the most detrimental life form on the planet besides humans.

The more deserts are created, the more freshwater pollution is created,

the more rainforests are cut down to make room for more cattle.

And cattle are just an absolute scourge.

And it has more and more countries become affluent and want to become first world countries.

What's the first thing that denotes that you've made it as a country is you can go out and have a steak, right?

Or burger.

Or burger, exactly.

So, you know, as more and more of the world gets turned on to beef as a protein source,

the worst, the degradation to the environment is going to become.

And I don't think that we're going to be able to go on for much longer using beef as a protein source.

Now, here's my disclaimer.

I'm like, Oprah, Oprah said she never ate another hamburger again,

but she did a show on man cow disease on Oprah.

And she got sued the next day for $2 billion by the beef industry.

I eat beef.

But I don't eat beef.

It's going close to where I live.

It's organic, grass-fed.

I know where it's from.

I know the butcher.

You know, I won't eat industrialized beef protein.

It's just, you know, that you're playing Russian roulette with pre-on disease,

possibly lurking in the food chain.

Yeah, what was that documentary forks over knives where it was discovered

when burger joints were introduced in China,

suddenly diabetes just kind of grew out of control.

Yeah.

You can trace and track all of this.

You don't eat much red meat, but when I do, I know where it comes from.

It's not from McDonald's.

It could have up to 1,000 cows in one burger.

Yeah, I mean, it's hard to wrap one's mind around this.

And when you approach people, I even family.

How do they respond when you explain this to them?

Well, I really try not to explain it to them.

I try to keep these sessions to a minimum if I can,

because quite frankly, I don't want to sound like chicken little,

running around like a cow with no head,

yelling that the sky is falling.

I'm doing my best.

I don't want to be an alarmist,

but there's definitely something alarming about this whole mystery.

I'm doing my best not to laugh at what you just said there.

That was funny.

But yeah, I mean, you know,

it's one thing to claim to have had an alien encounter.

And then you're going to turn it this way.

I mean, it's hard to keep track.

I'm sure going into such what appears to be one thing,

but they're absolutely opposing.

Yeah.

You know, one case will get you going in one direction.

You think I figured it out.

And then the next 10 cases will be the exact opposite,

which will totally negate the case that you taught and figured it out.

So it's like, you know, as soon as you think you got it,

you've got a pattern.

As soon as you think you got a good theory,

the invariably reality and the data throws you curveballs.

It's only negates.

So for every theory that you can come up with with Academy relations,

it's only, it only represents 10 or 20% of the data.

The other 80% of the data negates that particular theory.

So that's, it's perfectly.

It's itself nullifying.

It's ingenious the way it's designed.

Are you still taking reports or have you kind of closed this chapter?

Yeah.

I am.

We just had this spring.

We had cases in,

or actually less,

less spring and fall.

We had cases in Texas,

Oklahoma, Kansas,

Oregon,

Oregon,

Northern,

the year before we had cases in Northern Florida, Georgia, Tennessee,

cases right outside of,

oh, what's the big green beret base for Bragg?

North Carolina, we had cases last year.

So if people want to get a hold of you to turn in their mutilation case,

I hope there aren't people with their pets calling and contacting you,

but we're not, we haven't even talked about the half cat scenario.

Thousands and thousands of domestic cats have been found clipped in half.

Usually there are indoor cats that somehow accidentally get out.

And the next day they're found on the front yard,

the front half of it's found,

and the back half is gone,

and all the internal organs are gone with cats clipped in half

with a giant pair of scissors.

Thousands of these cats have been found like this,

in all the major cities of the West.

Well, no, that's not an easy thing to catch as a cat.

So what do you think is going on with that?

I have no idea.

That one I've just been on,

and much, you know,

credit goes to Linda Howe.

She's been the one person that's really kept that particular subject in front and center.

She has quite a network of sources that report to her when pets are being,

when pets are being abused and killed in this matter.

It's just, it's just amazing how many have been found like this.

And, you know, most cats are angry anyways,

but to say that it's a mad cow,

mad cat type of situation,

it doesn't feed the same purpose.

So that's interesting.

I think where do you even link the two?

It doesn't even seem like they're related.

You know, I don't know.

The whole cat thing started in Brentwood,

of all places, in a super ritzy suburb of L.A.

In 1970, was the first outbreak of these cat deaths.

And since then, they've spread the Salt Lake City to Seattle,

to Phoenix, Denver.

All the major cities of the West have had waves of these cat deaths

that nobody can explain.

I recall being in Puerto Rico,

and a lot of people keep rabbits.

And they were blaming it on the Chupacabra.

So, do you link Chupacabra sightings to anything like this?

No. Chupacabra is a joke that was cracked.

Why a Puerto Rican comedian called these,

whatever was, you know, attacking goats and sheep and chickens

and Puerto Rico in the late 80s, early 90s,

called it goat sucker, you know, the Chupacabra.

And the name is stuck.

And now, anything that needs small animal that's killed on the farm

and Latin American countries is done by the Chupacabra.

No, that's a whole different thing.

I think that the original Chupacabra outbreak may have been some weird genetic experiment

that got loose in Puerto Rico.

And then the ones that you hear about nowadays are probably just

managing coyotes that lost all their hair.

Those are basically the ones that you hear about the most.

But there's not to say that small animals aren't targeted

and predated upon and violated.

But it happens quite routinely in South America,

Central America, down in Mexico, the islands,

that case is in the Canary Islands,

cases in all over South America.

And that's the convenient term now.

It must be the Chupacabra.

There's another meme for it that was a punchline to a joke on a TV show

and look where it is now.

That's how these things start sometimes.

So have you seen any patterns like when you're able to put it all on a map

to see any kind of flow of where these activities are occurring?

Yeah, downwind and downstream of where we utilize uranium.

And where uranium is impacted the environment.

And there's one thing that says that you may be able to prospect

by taking soft tissue organs from grazing animals.

You may be able to find evidence of carbohydrates in the,

not carbohydrates, so hydrocarbons in the environment like gas and oil.

And also possibly precious metals could be found this way.

That's one theory.

I've never seen the evidence to support that as being an effective prospecting technique.

But it seems that these cases are found downwind and downstream

where we utilize uranium.

Sounds like it's a lot of fires that a person have to put out

to really get to the bottom of this.

And if anybody has done that,

legwork, 300,000 miles, you said, or how many miles did you put on?

300,000 miles of my truck.

I covered 10,000 square miles.

And that's great.

200 cases.

And then hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of UFOs that it's challenged.

Yeah, that's about what it would take to try to get to some answers.

And it's hard to, there's so many speculations.

And there's so many people's imagination can run wild.

Because in the heat of the moment, and you thought you saw a light,

I could see how some things can be taken wrongly.

But then there are those hard core that are like, look,

I heard a story of a young guy that was mutilated and was witnessed.

And it's like, well, how do we push past that story?

And we could really believe one good story.

And then I witnessed to something.

But then that I witnessed doesn't come forward fully.

And it's like, well, who threatened them to silence?

It's like, what are we saying?

It's so hard to stand on that one mountain and say, this is it because of that.

Yeah.

Yeah, there is no one size fits all answers.

Unfortunately, it's infinitely more complex.

But one thing you can be sure of, if you find a pet livestock in field,

and it looks unnaturally slain by parts have been taken,

just look for cut hair follicles.

Because that's generally what you're going to find in a true mutilation

as little straight lines of cut hair.

And nothing in nature can do that.

Insects, birds, scavengers, they don't cut hair.

They tear between the hairs.

And if you find straight lines of cut hair follicles,

you've got a real bonafide true mutilation.

And that's my litmus test that I use to determine whether a case is high-strange

in that somebody did this to the animal or something did this to the animal.

And invariably, you will have cut hair follicles.

And occasionally, in the case of three cases that I had,

there was cooked hemoglobin and cauterized flesh on the incisional area,

which indicated some form of high heat was used.

Now, I can't explain that.

Back when this was in the early 90s,

they only had a portable laser that was able to barely cut through chicken breasts.

They would take repeated passes over the chicken breast to cut,

to cut, you know, very simple chicken breast.

Not really super hard, tough cattle hide.

It's not by accident that we use cow hide for shoes,

because it's tough.

And it would be really difficult back in the early 90s to have a machine

that had the power that was able to cut and cauterize cow hide.

So, those cases were definitely of the high-strange variety.

And those count among those eight to ten cases

that truly were demonstrated to be high-strange.

Oh, that sounds like we've got some ways to go

and really boiling things down.

But now, if people want to get a hold of you

or to get this book of yours, how can they go about doing that?

Well, you know, the books to be able to get Amazon,

and if you go to my website, tell our strange planet,

we live on a strange planet.

It's our strange planet.

Oh, you are the C-R-A-N-G-E planet, dot com.

It's, like I said, it's a 600-page book.

I'll sign it for you, shoot it off to you.

And, or if you want, you can go and get it from Amazon.

Go to my website, ourstrangeplanet.com

and there's a ton of stuff on there

about the San Luis Valley, about my work

and some of my articles and theorizing

and other things that I posted up there over the years.

I enjoy it.

It's called Stocking The Hurt.

Well, Christopher O'Brien, I want to thank you so much

for coming on the show today.

This is really enlightening.

Yeah, sure, my pleasure.

Thanks for having me.

Thank you for listening.

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in the paranormal.

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I want to thank them as well.

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Thank you very much.