Vince McMahon – Part 3: Panda Smackdown

0:00Welcome back to Fraudsters, the deep dive show on scams and cons and the fraudsters behind them. I am Cine Gasnevi. I'm Ariel EAT. And my name is Justin Williams. And we're going to be continuing our multi part series on Vince McMahon. And boy, boy, boy, what a man. What a man, what a man, what a mighty bad, what a mighty bad man. Can you give us a little quick recap, Ariel, what we've been talking about? I can, I can. So here's a recap for everybody. Vince McMahon, abused as a child, decided he wasn't just going to survive. He was going to be the villain he

1:00was forged into. He would take what he wanted. He would never be hit with a pipe again. And if he was, he'd come out the other side, more powerful. Last episode ended in Montreal, Bret Hartz, Fist, connecting with Vince McMahon's face in a locker room. What happened next is either the greatest business pivot in entertainment history or the clearest possible evidence of who this man has always been. Probably both. Yeah. And of course, Owen Hartz falling too. Oh, yes, that was sad. This is like, we're going to get into, I don't know, we call this the attitude era, right? Attitude era. This is where wrestling reaches, you know, it's, it's people were like, no way wrestling will get bigger than Hulk Hogan in the 80s. And then like, like 97 through 99, it goes. So when I think of wrestling, this is what I think of the attitude

2:02era. And I think the thing about it is, is that where the storyline was in the ring up until this era, in a general sense, right? In a room. Now the storyline is everywhere. It is a multi platform, a multi genre, everything. The whole spectrum of storytelling you could imagine is now in here. And it is like, if you've ever been on 4chan, imagine a 4chan soap opera. And it's like, so funny that you say that. So when I think of wrestling in general, right? I think of this attitude era, I think of like Woodstock 99, I think, good man show. Like all of these spike TV, like all of this time in American history, that's what I think of when I think of wrestling. It's like, it's, it's, it's, I know it's not only that, but to me, a person who is just on the periphery, that's what I see. No, it's actually an era of masculine entertainment that actually ages like incredibly poorly. And retro spects, but yeah, but yeah. Which is why most of the guys that

3:06are your age, I think are bad. And you guys somehow crawled out of it. Yeah, it's a we're, with wrestling, it's a weird thing, right? Because it's some of wrestling's worst sort of instincts as far as writing and gimmicks, but it's also, it's, also, it's zenith creatively in some ways. Yeah, yeah. That's fair. So it's like, I don't know what's a toxic thing that is great, that maybe like we could talk about. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I was waiting for someone to ask. Yeah, talk to something that's great. I mean, like in rap terms, it'd be like if, like imagine if two live crew was insanely artistically talented at the same time. It's like that. It's like, we had artistic merit. All right, big butts on girls. And they shake them real good. And I win, they shake their butts. I look good. Now, pull your pants down and shake it real nice because I'm born to get, I'm gonna put my weighing on ice like like, like, like, yeah, yeah, it sucks at rap. Yeah. But just

4:09imagine it's like, yeah, we had like Kanye's artistry, but then combined with like randomly, like two live crew, like, tracks getting in there. And you're like, what was that? You know, they didn't know the exact beats per minute to get women excited. Yeah, it works. 120. Back up again. Okay, let's get to business. So by the time too much sugar. For the time the Montreal screw job happens, WCW has beaten the WWF in the weekly television ratings for over 80 consecutive weeks. Hey, the Vince McMahon is losing his own industry to Ted Turner of all people. And then Bret Hart's fist saves him. The Mr. McMahon character debuts in the weeks following Montreal. The audience already hates him. They've just watched him live betray his own champion. Vince recognizes that this hatred is a

5:10resource. He isn't trying to fix his reputation. He weaponizes it. The character is swagger walking, suit wearing, tyrant, who exists to be despised against him. Stone cold Steve Austin, a beer drinking working class anti hero who beats up his billionaire boss every chance he gets. For millions of blue collar fans, this is the most satisfying thing on television. By spring 1998, the WWF reclaims the ratings lead from WCW. And they never give it back. You know, Vince talks about the McMahon, Mr. McMahon character in like this idolizing way. And he's talking about himself, right? In the Netflix documentary, he says, he is the most reprehensible individual on the planet, uncaring a power monger manipulative. And then he says, art imitating life and vice versa. It's fun because some of it's true. I mean,

6:12like talk about quiet part out loud that was never actually quiet to begin with. If you look closely, Stone cold is really playing the part of Vince McMahon. Meaning the rebellious anti authority figure was his own inner life projected onto someone else. This is what Justin talking about about the zenith of creativity because a lot of us felt this story. Like we understood that in this very strange way. Yeah. And it was just we've got tired of being fed like a cookie cutter patriotic heroes. Yeah. And so it was also a time where people didn't want things that were formulated. So Stone cold is about like anti-hero. He's a cursing bald-headed drunken red neck. Right. This is character. And it's like that guy gets chosen as the hero. So during the attitude era, Vince uses the format to do things that if you just read them on a piece of paper would read like gations. Okay. And sometimes they were actually that

7:13way. There was the kiss my ass club, which by the way, it won't show you the video of that. Vince creates an actual segment on the show that's a reoccurring segment. Where? If you need me to say it, he has people employees kiss his bear ass. If they want to keep their jobs. Participants included Sean Michaels, who by the way, there's some sort of rumor that there's a love love story there. Well, that's just Jim Ross and Mick Foley. Humiliation, of course. I mean, it's like power, humiliation. It's great for ratings. And then there is the Trish stratus segment where this is so bad. Vince with the K-fabe wife, but actual wife, Linda, she's catatonic. Like she's sick. In a wheelchair. Sorry, I'm not laughing.

8:18No, these segments, when you go back, it's like Jerry Springer. It really like I shouldn't laugh. Because it's also Jerry Springer era. Like seeing Linda McMahon pretend to be catatonic and Vince, it's funny to look back at the footage. And he makes this wrestler, God, I can't believe I'm doing this. Trish stratus, strip to her underwear, get on her hands and knees and bark like a dog in the center of the ring. On live television, just not only did he approve it, this was from his brain. This isn't like he's getting pitched this story. I love that lesson five minutes ago. You're like, this was just like the lead creative that had been that time. It was just like, you know, you know what I'm saying? Well, it's crazy as all this is. It's what makes Vince, he's so over the top evil as a character. This one's saying it blurs. People are like, Vince, like Vince is actually a, so that's what makes the character work. It becomes, it becomes believable. There's no one else did this. No, no one else could do this.

9:21I was did this. And so in November of 1999, the WWF introduces a storyline where triple H, drugs, Vince's real daughter, Stephanie McMahon takes her to Vegas and marries her while she is unconscious. I think I remember seeing this on Monday Night Raw, Vince, the actual human being, approve the storyline. I don't know that he's actually a human being. Well, this is not the Mr. McMahon character. I mean, it could be an alien. They've admitted their aliens out there now. During the broadcast, triple H confronts Vince and says on live television, it's not a question of if, but how many times did we consummate the marriage? The girl in the wheelchair that was, no, that was, that was, that was his real wife. That was his wife, his real wife. And then he's talking about his daughter, but the wrestler in this storyline did in real life married and

10:23is actually his son in law. So, so in a weird messed up crazy way, one of the reasons why Vince, people like wrestlers kind of love Vince is that he's not subjecting you to anything. He's not subjecting himself and his own family to. God, I just, I'm just putting his own daughter there. Yeah. Truth it. When the arena crowd turns on Stephanie and begins chanting slut at his daughter, Vince's on screen reaction, which he's scripted, is to rub his fingers together at triple H. The money sign, this is profitable. Yeah. In real life, after the storyline, Vince actively pushes Stephanie to date triple H. The on screen romance becomes real. Vince then suggests the actual wedding should be broadcast live on pay per view. Stephanie finally declines against something. Our research found that Vince pitched a storyline. Oh, wait, we didn't have to research that hard for this story. Yeah, no, it's kind of famous. Vince pitched a storyline where he would be revealed

11:30as the father of Stephanie's unborn baby. Oh, my God. She refused this storyline as well. And so then he pivoted and suggested her brother Shane be written as the father instead. She refused that too. Now Stephanie, I want to be the father of your baby. Oh, I separate from the pitch. Vince also books an actual I quit match between himself and Stephanie. During the match, he slams her around the ring repeatedly and chokes her with a steel pipe. The match ends when Linda McMahon in character throws in the towel. Vince's daughter on pay per view, being choked with a steel pipe by her father for money. I guess you had to be there.

12:33And he's like working the crowd. Yeah, I got her. That's right. That's right. What's going on? I'll kill my own daughter. Daddy's little girl's going night night. Oh, no. I'm sorry. I'm laughing at this situation. I'm laughing at Justin portrayal of Vince McMahon. You see this pipe? This is the one I was beat with when I was a kid. Now I'm going to beat you. That's kind of what it is. That's it. It is. We're going to take a quick break from network ads, but a gentle reminder that you can help us not depend on advertising by signing up for our Patreon at patreon.com slash fraudsters. You'll get extra content and even the ability to be in a private chat with us. That's right. So don't forget patreon.com slash fraudsters. Hang out with us. All right. Let's do just a quick flashback here.

13:39There's some, you know, as if what we just said, that was, that was, you know, what we just talked about. Some would find it harrowing. Yeah. My two co-hosts enjoyed it. Well, it laughed so hard that they cried. Sorry. I mean, it's just the, it's the, there's a sociopathic. Like, it's a level of entertainment. It's like, this is the way some people would see me. And your talents are so so fast. No, they're like, you know, comedians being confessional to where you're laying it all on the line. This is what they're doing with the writing. It's like everything is about entertainment and the product. And it's just did not give a shit about things that like normal people. Like, no, I'm not joking. My daughter would have piped on TV. I have to go to the grocery store next like, you know, they mean they're like, they have to go back in society. Oh, oh, hello comment section. Yeah. All right. I want to talk about some stuff that was awful, also terrible, but that was not part of the storyline. That was just insane. They were, and this is all again,

14:41Vince creating an environment that was completely unsafe. Again, technically the stuff that he did where he choked his daughter with a pipe was the safest thing that he did because that was rehearsed and practiced and there's a whole move there. But here's something that people missed. And the reason I'm bringing this one up is because this lawsuit is now live and it's about the ring boys. And this is a terrible saga that happened briefly. And starting the 80s and went into the 90s. And I can break it all down, but this great show and the law and crime network did a good job describing everything. So I just want to play that clip and then we'll come back and I'll break some more stuff down for you. Vince McMahon, the once revered CEO whose legacy is intertwined with world wrestling entertainment now faces a new wave of allegations regarding sexual abuse. Five former WWE ring boys have come forward accusing McMahon, his wife Linda,

15:45the WWE and TKO group holdings. This is the league's parent company of allowing former ring side announcer Melvin Phillips Jr. to use his position to sexually exploit and abuse young children. Yeah, this lawsuit, it was filed at the behalf of five John Does alleging that Phillips would recruit young boys to work for him helping him run errands to set things up for the WWE events. However, this was all allegedly an exchange for sex. This complaint I will tell you has multiple facets to it. So we're going to first start by unpacking the accusations against Phillips. This lawsuit alleges, quote, Phillips real motivation in luring the ring boys with the promise of gaining access to the popular WWE events was to sexually abuse them. It goes on further to say, quote, Phillips, Lorda manipulated the young boys with promises of meeting famous wrestlers and attending the highly popular wrestling shows, experiences that were otherwise unattainable for these kids and the suit even led to Phillips targeted young boys who were impoverished and,

16:46quote, even routinely traveled with them in plain sights, staying together in hotel rooms and driving in his car to WWE events. And there may even have been physical evidence of this alleged abuse because the complaint argues, quote, at some venues, defendants even provided Phillips with his own private dressing room where he would use his own expensive video camera to film his sexual escapades. It's even mentioned that a WWE employee surrendered a tape to the FBI and that tape apparently contained some very disturbing material because according to the complaint, it says, quote, on August 3rd, 1993, the US Attorney's Office acquired the half-inch videotape in which it's believed to show Phillips unusual foot fetish, a review of the tape by NYO shows Phillips lying with and the name is redacted, foot in crotch area for an extended period of time. One particular part of this complaint that's really tragic says that one young boy was so traumatized but what by what had happened that he ended up taking his own life in the lawsuit it reads.

17:51The WWE reached a financial settlement with the young boy. He implored his brother to tell his story and his last known words were remember to tell them the WWE and the McMahon's what they did to me. So the general theme here was the boys were given a job, they were given access to the WWE arena, all in exchange for involuntary sexual favors. And the reason I wanted to play this not just to like build up how awful Vince McMahon was but to also show the pattern from the snooker stuff that the the man that the boy that ended up becoming a man that ended up taking his own life was Tom Cole. And on March 15th 1992 there was a meeting where Vince was trying to sweep all this under the rug and Vince and Linda and I think the thing we sleep on a little bit already in this series is how involved Linda is. She's very quiet, she's not outward doing it, she's doing these bits and stuff like that on the stage, she's participating but I don't know as far as I

18:52would would assume she is really helping a lot. She's enabling. All of the enabling. I would say she's strategizing and if you've seen her give testimony as Secretary of Education, she's fucking ruthless. She's a sharp corporate mind. Yeah, she's not just some housewife. Exactly. And lawyer Jerry McDivitt that we've talked about previously sat down with Tom Cole and his lawyer and at some point during the meeting according to Tom Cole and his brother Lee because Tom told his brother all the stuff Vince pulls Tom Cole aside privately and tells him I was molested too. And this could be the only recorded instance of Vince sharing his story but the way he does it is self-serving and disgusting and Tom drops the lawsuit. Vince agrees to give him $55,000 in back pay and get some his job back.

19:54Wow. And I think I'm happy that that case is happening because through the discovery process I'm sure there's a lot more that's going to come up about that kind of stuff. And so it is this moment where Vince is trying to insert himself into a situation where he thinks he can solve the problem and then he ingratiates himself in some way. And so again, it's very, very scammy fraudulence kind of stuff there. And that kind of story, there have been murmurs and we'll see, I mean like allegedly or yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if you heard about other personalities that were central to the operation like, you know, maybe stories about maybe like Pat Patterson might come up later. Yeah. So 1986, there was the case of Rita Chatterton, the first female referee. Vince assaulted her in a limousine. In 1992, Chatterton goes public on the heraldor Rivera television show. There came a time when you and Vince McMahon were allegedly, I stress allegedly because he denies

21:00that you are allegedly an limousine. Tell us what happened. We left there. I followed Vince over to a Denys in a parking lot. I got out of my car, walked to the front of the car. Vince's drive I got out and opened the door and I thought Vince was going to get out. But instead, Vince said to me, no, Rita, come in here. He says, we just sat in a diner for a couple hours. I really don't want coffee. We'll just sit and talk here. We're sitting in a parking lot. I mean, I didn't think much of it. I got an limo with him. We got into the limo. Vince started talking about magazines, t-shirts, wrestling dolls. We don't have a referee doll at this point. A female would be great. On and on and on. Again, starts talking about half a million dollar of your contract. Next thing I know, Vince McMahon is unzipping his pants. I was pretty shocked at that point. I mean, we're talking profession here and suddenly he's wants more than just profession. Vince continued to, you know, if you want a half a million dollar

22:03contract, you're going to have to satisfy me and this is the way things have to go. Couple added points. I'm up here. Vince grabbed my hand. I'm trying to put my hand on him. Health reasons. I was scared. My wrist at the end, my wrist was all purple, black and white and blue. Things just didn't, he just, he just didn't stop. Pulled me on top of him and told me again, if I wanted a half a million dollar of your contract, I had to satisfy him. He could make me or break me. And if I didn't satisfy him, I was black bald. That was it. I was done. When Vince was all said and done, Vince just sat back and said, at one point when I first met Vince, let me back up here just a little bit, the very first time I met Vince, I was told that if I had any sexual relationships with anyone in the federation, I was done. My career was done. I was engaged. I had no problem with that.

23:06When Vince was said and done, Vince looked at me and said, do you remember what I told you about having sexual relationships with anyone? Well, you just did. And he just sat back and had this big smile and this big grin and just started laughing at me. So, Geraldo awful. But gave at least this one of the ability to make her case. I think one of the problems was that the statue limitations on that she filed her claim late. Vince and Linda were a file of five million dollar defamation lawsuit against Chatterton and Geraldo. They dropped the suit in 1994. It's interesting just to note, like these days in California, there's a new law that if a victim, you know, soothes in there either, you know, they don't lose the sexual assault case or something like that or it's, you know, and the, because a lot of times what you'll see is the person in power

24:11will file a defamation lawsuit because the victim comes forward. Now, if you win the civil case, right, of the assault, you can sue them for, and the defamation lawsuit goes away, right? You could sue them for all the attorney's fees. You could sue them for damages. So it will basically make these people in power. Yeah. Think twice before they decide to use litigation as a offensive move and something like this. In January of 2023, a demand letter for nearly $12 million was sent. And McMahon and Chatterton agreed to a confidential multi-million dollar settlement. But look, I mean, how many years later? I mean, that's so, so long later. And in the Netflix documentary, Mr. McMahon, he then addresses these, you know, the case, the Chatterton case. And he says, quote, once you're accused of rape, you're a rapist. It was consensual and actually had it been a rape,

25:14the statute of limitations had run out. Which is something that was like hot, no innocent person. Zero innocent people say that. That's very much even if it was saying if I did it, if I did, if I did it, he'd even say I didn't do it. Yeah. But it's more damning because the as you'll see, it becomes, of course, a sort of pattern. Yeah. So hits the 90s and they are getting ready for an IPO. And so if you're going to go public, you should know what you're investing in. Here's what's happening at the company besides these abuses. So after successfully lobbying states to classify wrestlers as entertainers instead of athletes, Vince designates his entire roster as quote, independent contractors. We covered that earlier. This means no workers comp, no health insurance, no pension, no union, nothing. When Jesse Ventura later, a governor at the time of wrestler tried to organize a labor union to protect the locker room. Hulk Hogan ratted him out

26:19to McMahon. And that was that one was last time he spoke to Hulk Hogan. I don't know. He betrayed me. This was just prior to WrestleMania two. We were all in a dressing room. And there was nobody from the office. I waited and I got up on a chair. And I and I told everybody now is our time to union. I said, all the publicity's gone out on WrestleMania. If we refuse to wrestle, unless union negotiators are brought in its federal law, they have to be brought in. It's the law. And I said, and then if we can get the Charlotte guys to join us, we can find, we can freeze them, freeze Vince and force them to do collective bargaining. And we can finally get a union. And I gave my impassioned speech. The next day I go home, my phone rings, it's Vince. Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, the union, I said Vince, I'm not, I fought him. I said Vince, I'm not

27:22talking about just fighting you. And in that, I said, right now, this was 1980s. I said, right now, I pay $5,000 a year for health care for my family. That's crazy. If we had a union, I might only have to pay $12.50. You know, because there's strength in numbers. I said, what about all the guys I've seen that give 30 years to this business. And in the end, they ain't got to pot the piss in or a window to throw it out of. If we had a union, maybe they could retire with $500 a month. Something, when I sued the WWF over royalties for videotape, I used to say to Vince all the time Vince, how come everything I do in Hollywood, I get royalties and everything I do for you, I get nothing. Why is that? Why are you different than Hollywood? Well, I said, could it be a union? Could that be the difference? What had happened was when I sued the WWF, we had to take Vince's

28:23deposition. So me and my lawyer flew to Connecticut, but I told my attorney the whole story. I said, if you can find out who read it, who was the rat. So we sat down deposing Vince and it got halfway through and then lawyer can ask anything. And my attorney says to Vince, Mr. McMahon, he said, has there ever been a union in wrestling? And Vince goes, no, has anyone ever tried to form one? And Vince paused a moment. He said, yeah, he said, I think Jessi Ventura spouted his mouth off about it one time years ago. My attorney said, really? He said, how did you know, Mr. Did you hear, Mr. Ventura? And Vince said, no, my attorney said, well, then how did you know with no hesitation? Vince answered, Hulk Hogan told me. This is why the stories like that is why people start booing Hulk Hogan as they came out. Yeah, exactly. I think I saw him at the last show he did. It was the first raw. And it was in LA for Netflix, raw had gone to Netflix. And Hulk Hogan came out and the stadium booed for ever. And they on TV. And even if you look it up now, they edited out

29:31the booing, which was because it's not part of the show. It was a part of the. It was supposed to be like people were supposed to be excited to see it. So don't believe everything you see on the internet because people are booing there. Then of course, there are the drugs when Bruno San Martino returned to WWE as a commentator in 1984, he described the locker room as quote, bizarre and quote, filled with drugs of all kinds, including steroids and cocaine. He said it terrified him to write in cars with a talent. Superstar Billy Graham stated, flatly, that quote, you would have to had taken steroids and Vince McMahon's world wrestling federation to be on top. Hulk and testified under oath that 75 to 80% of the roster was juicing. He said taking steroids was as routine as brushing my teeth. And with rampant drug use comes rampant drug test fraud. Emily

30:34Feinberg testified during the surgery trial that the company's original drug testing policy only tested for cocaine. When wrestlers tested positive for opiates and barbituates, Vince ignored it. He believed they needed those drugs for paying, sleep and to control their road rages. After beating the federal case, the WWF briefly implemented independent drug testing. Vince quietly suspended it in 1996 because it cost too much money. And you know that man cares about the bottom line. The company's wellness program doesn't officially exist until February 27th, 2006. In 1999, wrestler Reena Sable-Miro seized the WWF for $110 million alleging unsafe working conditions. The specific allegations where that men frequently walked into the women's dressing room uninvited, holes had been cut into the dressing room wall so that men could watch women undress.

31:34And male wrestler X-PAC defecated in her back. Yeah, it's Xbox. The old 123 kid, another real letdown of a human. Yeah, he did that to other people too. That was his whole thing. Yeah, so interestingly, they have this thing called ribs where they play jokes on each other and stuff that doesn't. Not of an age as well. No, it's like a good then. It was awful then. Really bad now. And I think that's all like, okay, the reason we ran through that because we covered a lot of those things, right? This is the stuff that you either, you don't put in your like S1 or whatever you do to go get an IPO, but this is the company that's going to go public. Yeah, all of these things have been happening over the last like 20 years. And they're like, you know, we need we need to put this company into the public markets. Yeah, I think that that to me is insane. And so, but they did it. And this is America. You can do it. America, you can do anything. October 19th 1999, the WWF goes public on the New York Stock Exchange. It raises 170 million

32:42in the initial offering Forbes places Vince's personal net worth at 1.7 billion 99, nine billion, by the way, 1.7 billion dollars. The registered corporate name, world resting federation, entertainment, ink is important because he's valuing the company as a media company and entertainment, not sports, right? So to retain absolute control as well, this is another thing that would really come back to bite Vince later. He engineers a share structure where he's got these class B shares, which are like super shares. Mark Zuckerberg has kinds of these kinds of shares where each one carries 10 votes per other people's single share, right? So this makes him effectively a dictator of his own corporation and any corporate vote. So no board can overrule him, no shareholder can touch him. He is in control untouchable, not allowed to be hurt ever again.

33:45But he can hurt anyone that he wants though. What he doesn't understand though, and I think maybe he did maybe he didn't, but I don't think he really, I think the the fog of arrogance was there, is that when you take a company public, you voluntarily invite the securities at exchange commission into your company. Like they get to look at your books all the time and the same federal oversight that you spent years avoiding at the state level because you were a private company and you got to like, you know, grease the wheels and stuff like that. It's not going to really work as well with the SEC. But when you got the juice, you think you're untouchable. We'll be right back after this message from Turkish Airlines. So you want to talk about the XFL a little bit here because this is another thing that, I don't know, Justin, you remember this. This was crazy. I remember loving that this, uh, this is peak

34:47Vince feeling himself. Yeah. Yeah. This sounds like, uh, yeah, greed. XFL happens in February 2001. Vince McMahon decides he wants to run a football league because why not? Because it's nice to show a complete failure. And I don't know if everyone knows that. He started his own football league 50, 50 with NBC and called it the XFL week one. The XFL draws a sold out crowd and a 9.5 Nielsen rating, which is good. And you think, wow, he did it again. Week two, the ratings fall and they keep plummeting. The XFL folds after one season on May 10, 2001. By the end of its run, it holds the record for the lowest rated primetime broadcast in the history of American television. Broadcaster Bob Costa delivers the odds off sea at a single sentence. The XFL didn't have good enough storylines for the wrestling fans. And it wasn't good enough football for the sports fans because as we know,

35:50Vince doesn't dabble in sports. He's only good at entertainment. Vince and NBC each lose more than 30 million dollars. Some estimates put total losses at 70 million dollars. The WWF stock price falls from a high of $22 a share to $10.95. So one of the things that, uh, we say now is the WWE, right? And for a long time, it was the WWF. That also makes me feel crazy. Berenstein, Berenstein, if it was like a two different world, because they have basically wiped any mention. You can't even mention that it was formally known as WWF. Yes. Whenever they talk about, they're like, oh, yeah, WWW. I remember it being WWF. I was there. Yeah. And the classic iconic logo. WWF. And so in, by 1989, it's going back a little bit, but then you'll see where it goes.

36:50The wrestlers and the pandas, if you will, had a shaky coexistence agreement. In 1993, Vince expands the WWF brand aggressively into Europe. And I tell you what, the panda people, they go to a Swiss court and get an interim injunction to stop the distribution of the WWF wrestling magazine. The Swiss judges reasoning, which is perfect. The charity's mark is so well known that the public might mistakenly associate wrestling's violence with the wildlife fun, which is the most hilarious thing ever. But talk about the good guys winning for the good. Final. I want to panda an accaged match. In 1994, Vince signs a new agreement. He promises to stop using the letters WWF and print visual media and audio with narrow exceptions, including their old block logo, which the panda's lawyer notes looks more like a WF anyways, so fine,

37:53fine, fine, whatever. He signs the agreement and then immediately ignores it. He's got $9,000 in 97. He registers WF.com and introduces an scratch logo that clearly says WWF. This is like, again, sure, we'll do the little side of the agreement and then just not listen to it. It's a direct violation of the 94 deal. And in April of 2000, the World Wildlife fun drags them into court again in London. And this time the court rules again for the pandas, the website, because we're in the website area now in the logo, both violate the 94 agreement. The appeals court adds that building an internet empire on a trademark acronym was Vince's own problem. Like you did this, Vince. Yeah. And the rebranding costs are this is your problem. You got to fix it. Avoidable. Yeah. So I mean, it's incredible. He surrenders to the panda charity.

38:58And the world wrestling federation becomes world wrestling entertainment, the WWE. Linda McMahon, of course, in the spirit of K-Fave attempts to spin the humiliation into a marketing movement or moment claiming the name change reflects their focus on entertainment. And they launch an ad campaign called Get the F out. That's actually really good. So I mean, it's just, I love that like they spin everything. Yeah. And then like literally the softest, cuddliest thing in the world managed to take down the logo, like the brand. All right. Let's get into some of the more kind of like sinister hush money stuff. More sinister stuff. Let's get into it. It's a very sinister series here. Here is where the attitude era, the IPO and the culture inside the company all converge into a single financial mechanism of hell. Between 2006 and 2022,

39:58Vince McMahon pays out over 14 million to at least four women, WWE employees and contractors to buy their silence. Here's what the sources reveal about each payment. A former wrestler, she gets $7.5 million in 2018. And according to later reporting, Vince previously coerced her into oral sex. When she refuses his subsequent advances, he demotes her and allows her contract to expire in 2005. 13 years later, the settlement is $7.5 million. A former manager, $1 million in 2006, she's worked at WWE for a decade. Vince initiates a sexual relationship with her and when it ends, she comes forward. $1 million, she disappears. A contractor, $1 million in 2008, she arrives at the company with unsolicited nude photos McMahon had sent her. She alleges sexual

41:00harassment, $1 million. Janelle Grant, $3 million in 2022, the most recent and the most graphic signed in January 2022, two months before an anonymous email changes everything. We'll get to Grant in the next episode, but her NDA is the one that blows the roof off of this whole thing. All of these agreements are structured the same way. Vince pays from his personal funds. Nothing goes through the corporate books. Nothing is disclosed to WWE's auditors, it's legal department or it's board of directors. Okay, this is finally, it's just we all the setup, right? And this is why we talked about all the crazy deplorable awful behavior. Yeah, because with all this setup, eventually you'll get to fraud. You'll dance around long enough before you get to the actual fraud. Exactly. You do all this terrible stuff. You use money to silence the terrible stuff, but again, you're a public company. And now when you don't report

42:02that you're using company dollars to silence cases, that's going to be a big problem. And we'll start to see how that happens. And then of course, all those things would have damaged the company's reputation. It would have lowered the stock price. And also Vince McMahon's compensation was tied to the performance of the company's profitability. So if you use company dollars to silence people and the company stales maintains a profit after that, right? Then you're juicing your own, your own salary, your own bonuses. Again, another fraud. He wasn't just covering up the sexual misconduct. He was stealing from the shareholders, which you just don't fuck with people's money. And that is like, it's always so disgusting and sad for me. And I think for us in general, when the actual bad, like terrible, awful things that people do aren't the things that they ended

43:04up getting caught for basically, it's like, when you fuck with money, that's how they get you. And it's like, all this other stuff is just like, well, we paid her off for it. Well, he said she said or whatever. It's just, this is the stuff that ends up happening. So we, you mentioned Janelle Grant, we're in the next episode, we're going to get to this saga of Janelle Grant. And we'll do our best to be sensitive to all the things that happened to her. But this is a live case as well right now. And but there's a part of it that's not happening as well, which is awful. But again, it's Vince not realizing that he's a public company. And he, I don't know how, how the hubris that you must have to think that all of these things would be secret. It's the hubris. It's also like whether he knows it or not, society has also changed. And it's not going to be in your favor as much anymore as it was in the 80s and early 90s and even early 2000s. We're in 2026. So people

44:07might not have as much mercy for you. Yeah, it's right. Yeah, absolute power and impunity. But the context shifts enough to everybody's looking for a story like this now to be called out. And what's crazy is that everything, just like like kind of like the, WWF, like the wildlife, Federation's like this like innocent thing that ends up being the thing. It's an anonymous email that we're going to get into next episode. Yeah. That is the thing that ends up blowing it. All over the place. So yeah, coming up next episode, we're going to get into this huge federal complaint. There's a hostile takeover of his own company that he does. There's the TKO merger. And then a lot of stuff that he kind of gets away with it and doesn't get away with it. More to come on that. And of course, Linda McMahon becomes secretary of the education. Which makes sense to me. Yeah, I've learned a lot. I've from Linda McMahon. You know, the

45:10curriculum they teach kids how to do the sharpshooter now. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Why not? Well, I'm Ariel, EAT. I'm Sina Gasnavy. I'm Justin Williams. Have some ice cream. Yeah, maybe take a break. It's tough. It's tough. Stop. Subscribe to us on the tube, all the stuff. It's fine. It's on socials, for our results. We'll see you next time. Bye.