Vincent D'Onofrio

0:00Every episode of NPRs, it's been a minute podcast, starts with a question about how culture shapes our lives. Are we spending too much on other people's weddings? Is social media bad for your mental health? We're here for your right to be curious. One big question at a time. Follow it's been a minute wherever you get your podcasts. Bullseye with Jesse Thorn is a production of MaximumFun.org and is distributed by NPR. It's Bullseye. I'm Jesse Thorn, sugar in water, two ingredients that make I have simple syrup, hummingbird food, a sticky mess. No thank you for me though.

1:00Sugar in water as a line from Men in Black delivered by my guest Vincent de Nafrio, who is playing a giant cockroach space alien and happening a man's body? Well, that's iconic. I hear one on earth was that sugar, I've never seen sugar do that. Give me sugar in water. Men in Black is of course, but one chapter. In Vincent de Nafrio's career, he is a remarkably physical, remarkably versatile actor. He played Gomer Pyle in Full Metal Jacket, a role for which he gained 70 pounds. For 10 years, he was Detective Robert Goren on Law and Order Criminal Intent. And more recently, it's been in the Daredevil series from Marvel. He plays Kingpin, The Crime Overlord's Super Villain, and Foil, Charlie Cox's Daredevil. When I talked with the De Nafrio last year, Disney Plus had just revived the show as

2:03Daredevil born again, the latest season in that series just dropped a couple weeks ago. Here's a clip from the original run of the show, Kingpin, whose real name is Wilson Fisk, his in jail. He's been locked up by Daredevil, but wouldn't you know it, Kingpin's influence extends well beyond the prison walls. So in this clip, Murdoch, Daredevil's alter ego, visits Kingpin in prison. He accuses Fisk of aiding and abetting other criminals while he's been behind bars. Murdoch even threatens him. Things that he'll never be allowed to see his lover again. Kingpin gets mad. He picks up Murdoch and slams him on the table, and the guards don't do anything. Yes, a son of a boxer. You're already in his place. Yeah, he did set him free. You have such a spare question. You have to burn off. I know. You're getting power in here. Yes, I saw my lawyer.

3:04He'll deny it. As the guard still deny it. As the inmates here. They'll cut their tongues out before they talk, but I have something to say to you when I finally get out of this cage. I will dismantle the lives of the two amateurs that put me in here. You, Mr. Murdoch and Franklin Percy Nelson. Vincent Tenoffrio, welcome to Bullseye. It's like the highest intensity audio content that's ever played on National Public Radio. Yeah, it's weird to just listen to the audio of it because it's such like an action-packed scene. Exactly. I believe it's the scene where we're holding each other intensely, brutally over the air-terrigation desk, right? Is that what it is? I think that's right. Is that what's happening in the scene? Something like that. It's also such an intense aesthetic experience watching the show with outfits and I mean like

4:05you're a giant dude in a giant special outfit, you know what I mean? The white suit draws all of the eyes on the screen into you and then you can be like as grand as you would like to be and kind of carry that weight. It's a hoot. It's really fun. But it's quite a character that would be able to play. I love the character. I've been doing it for like almost 10 years now. It's crazy. You know, off and on. Do you feel like it's different now for you? No, because there's a way that I established playing him for the first season of the Netflix show that is very kind of personal and intense in a way like even his voice even comes from an emotional event in my life. And so when I'm speaking his voice, it doesn't matter if he's in love or if he's having fun or if he's in pain or frustrated or angry, it's always coming through this particular

5:11event that happened in my life. And so that's how I found his voice, his actual literal, that's how I found him vocally, I should say. And so that kind of takes the lead and then everything else sort of falls into place. Are there like physical things that you remember, like are there touch points at their place? You put your tongue or a way that you hold a shoulder that help you stay locked in? Oh, yeah. For sure. I mean, he has a completely different posture than me and so basically when I'm playing him, I sort of consciously deplete myself of all anxiety and I'm in a total relaxed state. And then I start to bring the scene on through that and so like touch points would be emotional touch points more, more than physical touch points. But still, you know, when I stand completely, when I'm standing up and my shoulders are

6:14back and I'm doing his like big posture, also that's a, I would call that a touch point too. Yeah. How do you feel doing that stuff physically at your age? I mean, we're not in the same room. You look pretty healthy to me. Yeah. I'm pretty healthy. But you're also not a 26 year old. I'm not. And so I stopped putting the weight on for him and kept the weight on for many years with the first iteration and then when I did Hawkeye and then in when we did Echo, I had been investigating suits that make your body look bigger and sometimes muscle or sometimes just heavier weight. And they started to get really good. There was this one version that NASA made that was a really good version. And I tried that for for Echo and it worked really well. And so since Echo, which is a while ago, now like almost four years ago, I think.

7:14So during that, I realized that I could wear these suits. I could take the weight off that I had put on, get super fit and play them. And then I realized, of course, this is because I never trusted those suits before because they always look silly to me, those kind of body suits that you wear under your clothes to make you look bigger. But they work. They're really good. And we did that off for Echo. We did it for the first season of the new series born again and I'm going to keep wearing those. So now I'm just like really my fighting weight now, like I'm a, I can stay really fit and it's much easier to get through the season and get through all the fight scenes. I can do more stunts on my own now and stuff wearing this, this suit that puts weight on me. I'm able to stay healthy. So actually, you know, my job is really to keep up with these younger guys, you know, I have to do it. So it's like, I'm super fit. How much weight did you have to hold that you don't have now? It's probably around, I think when I was doing the original series, it was probably about

8:2040 pounds or something like that, maybe 50 pounds, maybe I wind up fluctuating between 40 and 50 pounds. I usually kept it around there and then it was less and less. When you say that this new suit that you're wearing was made for NASA, what does that mean? NASA made a suit that, I believe it was the one, the one that I wore in Echo. The fabric is from NASA, I think. This is what I've heard. And so it's, it's very, very lightweight. It's like, you know how like when you pick up a sneaker that looks like it's heavy and it weighs absolutely nothing, sort of like that. Is it a bunch of different pieces like does it go all the way down to your wrists kind of thing? It goes from the wrist to the ankles and it's one piece that you slide into your legs first. You put it on like a pair of pants because the muscles are actually molded off of your own body structure. So it's your muscles being enhanced and they do that with obviously with digital, these

9:22things that they, they walk around you and the digital scans your whole body very specifically, very intricately. And then it's just made into this like whole body. So you kind of step into this body, pull it on like a pair of really tight pants and then you put the top on which is attached to the, it hangs off you in the front and you put your arms through it frontways and then they zip it up in the back. Did you have to like stand in a scanner room in your underpants? I've never scanned in my underpants and I feel like that's a, a very personal question you just asked me there just and I think, I'm a journalist Vincent. Yeah, that's your excuse. That's good. It's a little something called journalism. It's a good excuse. It's a good question. Even more still to come with Vincent Denofrio. Stick around. Welcome back to Bullseye.

10:24I'm Jesse Thorn. My guest is Vincent Denofrio. He is a veteran actor. He's appeared in full metal jacket, men in black, the magnificent seven Jurassic World and so many more. These days you can catch him on the Marvel TV series Daredevil Born Again. He plays Wilson Fisk, the supervillain Kingpin. I think you're such a wonderful physical actor and you're also like big, you're six four, right? We're not sitting in the same room and you know, you read as big on screen but also like a camera really changes the way that somebody's size plays. It's really hard to see what size someone is when they're on camera. Is it different for you acting on stage using your body and acting on camera? But using your body or are you making the same kind of choices and letting the person behind the lens worry about it? That's a very specific question nobody's ever asked me that before.

11:25So I think when it comes to performance, I think it's the same. I don't think it's that different. The only thing that's different about a physical performance on stage, you know, there's no cutting, no cutting. So it's like you're doing the whole play and so you the way you're mapped out your characters movement throughout the whole play throughout all the acts that you're in, it's playing more of a long game, you know, like you can play a long game with the movie script too but it's more about the, that's more about the arc. But if you're talking about movement on stage and actually getting out on stage, staying out there for a full act and then going on the second act and stuff like that, that's all been rehearsed and it's all been sorted so you can maintain energy and display incredible amounts of energy like you, you have to pace yourself, you know, on a play. And so it's kind of, there's that kind of thinking that's a bit different.

12:28On a movie it's just like you plan your arc in the film and then and you plan how your characters aesthetically going to look and feel and sound and but when it comes to doing actual performance, as you just go full on each take, you know, and then back to zero again rest and then go full on again, you know, it's like you don't have to really think about a long game of, of, you know, making it through because you get a rest, you know, because it's, it's just film, you can do it again and again and again. It occurred to me that you've been working for like 40 years and for a lot of that you were not someone who put yourself forward other than in your performances and being the kingpin on a series of, you know, Marvel television shows necessitates you doing so, right?

13:28That's part of the job is that you also like go to Comic Con and our Vincent Nafrio and people shake your hand or ask you questions on a panel. Yeah. Have you gotten more comfortable with that at this point in your life and career? Yeah, I have. I think it's because it's, it's narrowed down to just that. Like when I do a Comic Con, the people that are there are very unique people. They're, you know, people call them nerds, whatever you want to call them, but they're just big fans of, of science fiction and, and fantasy stuff and, and the amount of fans is incredible, you know, the size of them. They're, it's an immense group of people and, and, and so when you go to these, to the panels when we, like when we do D23, the Disney 23 conventions and, there's, you know, sometimes there's, you know, 60,000 people there, you know, it's like I get that, that it's part

14:31of the deal. It's part of the job, you know, when it comes to this kind of stuff. I think that's what you're alluding to anyway. It's definitely a different world when you work for Marvel and, or you do any kind of block busters like this that has a franchise, you know, it's a whole different deal. I mean, like men in black is no less genreic and is if anything, you know, more popular and successful. I mean, it's like one of the most popular blockbuster films of my lifetime, right? You're one of the stars of the film, but also that job is not like being the kingpin, you know, there's, there's monumentally popular. It's sci-fi, it's all of these other things, but like you're not going to men in black con. Yeah. No, it's interesting. You bring men in black up because, you know, like I've always thought, like when I play parts of that size in a movie, they're not leads, they're supporting roles, they're

15:33like character roles. And I love doing that kind of stuff. I do it all the time. I've done it my whole career all the time. And so what happens is it's like I usually most of my career just sneak into a movie and sneak out of the movie. I don't do press for it. Like it's like a part that speaks for itself, you know, like a lot of people don't even know that I'm the guy in men in black. You know, it's like when, when I do Comic-Con, like people will see the pictures of me and men in black and they wonder why it's there in front of me, like they had no idea that it was me. Yeah. And like the same guy, like Marine Corps guys will come over and have no idea that the guy that did this movie full metal jacket is the same guy in men in black, you know. And so it's, that's been going on my whole career that's nothing new. And I can just go back in name and, you know, a bunch of crazy roles that I paid that were, that, you know, I was always just kind of in and out of the movies. I never really made a big fuss, you know. Can I ask you about men in black for a minute?

16:33I happen to have watched it relatively recently. Yeah, you can ask me anything like, I hadn't seen it since it was like in movie theaters, I guess, or maybe shortly after it was in movie theaters, I rented it on VHS or something. And your character for folks who don't remember is like the main alien guy. And your job as an actor in that movie, and you said you weren't the lead in the movie, I'm going to give you at least secondary lead. Look, you're not Will Smith or Tommy Lee Jones, but, um, but anyway, your job as an actor in this movie is you have to be a guy who does not know how to use a body. So how did you, first of all, did you have to go in and audition against a bunch of like mimes and, uh, no, you got invited. I got invited by the director. Actually, there's this wonderful producer that's been producing films for a long time named Stacey Cher.

17:33She like used to work for Danny DeVito's company back in the day, and now she does Tarantino Films. But she's an amazing producer, and we became friends. I did a film with Keanu called Feeling Minnesota where we play brothers, Cameron Diaz and, and Keanu. So we met on that. She produced that, and I got a call from her one day, and she said, uh, I'm, uh, friends of Barry Sonoffel, the director of this film, and he wants to give you a script, but, uh, you need to promise that you won't talk to him about acting or performance or anything like that. And I said, uh, really? And she goes, yeah, he's nervous because he doesn't, you know, want to talk about that kind of stuff. And I'm like, okay. I go remind him that I worked for Stanley Kubrick, and Kubrick was exactly the same way. They want to talk about anything. Just wanted to, you know, see what we were going to do and then shoot it the best way he could, you know, I mean, Barry Sonoffel was on this show recently, and the man thinks

18:33in camera moves. There's no question that everything is a composition in his mind. Yeah, he's an incredible, like one of, I remember knowing him from his early films when he was a GP, you know, he's like a, he's a shot designer. He's amazing at it, too. And he's like a hell of a dude, you know, to work with. So, but he literally, Vincent, he literally showed up an hour early for his interview because he wanted to make sure that his shot of him on this radio interview was framed correctly. Like, I believe it. Yeah, it was great. I believe it. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure. That's what he's like. So, you know, and so I said, okay, I won't. And I went forward and created this whole character, Rick Baker and I who did all the special effects. And so, Rick and I became very close on that show because we worked with each other for months before we started shooting. Rick was developing the look of the character. I was developing his voice and his movement.

19:36And so, on our own, we were doing stuff and then we would come together in his office and I would show him what I was going to do. And so, we all, you know, his work was incredible. He trusted me and I trusted him. And then one day we eventually ended up on set and I had to perform a scene and Barry had never seen what I was going to do had no idea. And he didn't like, it wasn't like he gave you six sentences to it was just you and special effects, legend, Rick Baker, go and come back with something and we'll shoot it. Yeah, I don't, I can't speak for what Rick and him discussed. I have no idea, but I know that when it came to myself, like Rick was the only one that was seeing what I was doing every day and what it was turning out to be. And I was being inspired by him and he was being inspired by me. There was a journalist that actually many, many years later, only a few years ago actually came to both of us, I think it's like six or seven years ago, came to both Barry and

20:36I wanted to do an article about each side of our story when it came to the development of my character because she had heard that we didn't talk about it. And so she interviewed us both and our stories matched perfectly. What happened on set that day is during my first take, Barry, very nicely, of course, he cleared the set and I was the only one left on set. And he asked me to do it again and he said, are you going to do that the whole time? And I was like, oh, like the blood ran out of my body and I'm like, yeah, like this is all I got. He goes, we'll do it again. And I did it again and you could, I could just see his face. He was like, oh my God, like I can't. This could be horrible or it could be great, you know, okay, let's just do it and we'll just keep shooting it this way and we'll see what happens. So that's the last time we spoke about the character and any scene for anything and then so it was like, you know, good mornings and good nights and no discussions.

21:39We kept shooting all my scenes and eventually I realized that it was, we shot so much that I probably wasn't going to get fired. So I just kept, kept doing it and I ended up in the film. Oh, a man came in here earlier. A dead man. And that means what to me? It was a very dear friend of mine. I believe he had an animal with him. It was a gift I gave him. A pet cat. These worlds to me. I want to have it back. I just can't believe how much he trusted me. There's been a few directors like I said that have done that. So it's like I'm very lucky that way. Who were the others? Stanley Kubrick and Antoine Fuqua. It's interesting because Kubrick has a reputation for having been the most obsessive director in terms of controlling every aspect of the production that could exist on Earth. But that didn't extend to you as an actor that was more about the the mise enceme and

22:43so forth. Well, he was very particular, you know, like if you didn't know your lines, you were not going to be his best friend. You know, and that was my first film. So I knew all my lines for sure, like I mean, I still do obviously, but like there was no way I was going to be in a Stanley Kubrick from it in on my lines, it's like ridiculous. We'll finish up with Vincent Denoffriot after a break. When we come back, we will talk about one of his most memorable early roles, a guest appearance on homicide life in the street. And what it was like, acting opposite the late great Andre Brower. This bullseye from MaximumFund.org and NPR. This is John Hodgman and Jennifer, and I'm coming to you from the flight deck. Please, be comfortable. We have now reached our cruising altitude. Well, that's correct. You are now free to listen to the latest season of e-pluribus motto. As always, this season will discuss the official models of US states and territories for your enjoyment. Look up the window. You'll see local iconography and creatures of all sorts. We'll discuss the season, including California quails.

23:44Puerto Rican frogs. North Dakota horses. Spiders of New Hampshire. And all matter of official and unofficial state cryptids. I've now turned on the enjoyment sign. So please start enjoying new episodes of e-pluribus motto every other week on MaximumFund and wherever you get your podcasts. Sit back, relax, and enjoy your listen. I'm Jesse Thorne. This is Bullseye. My guest is actor Vincent Denoffriot. He's seen him in men in black, full metal jacket, the cell. These days, you can catch him in the Marvel series Daredevil Born Again. Was full metal jacket your first film or was it the trauma summer camp's exploitation film the first turn on? That's right. Yeah. For those guys over there at trauma, which was a crazy company. And then I was going to do another one with them too, but I got fired from it somehow. What do you have to do to get fired from a trauma movie?

24:47I must have, I think I didn't want to wear the nose or some, I don't know. I was talking to somebody from trauma a few years ago. And they told me it was because they wanted me to wear red nose. And I didn't want to wear the red nose for whatever reason. I have no, this is what I hear. I don't remember the exact reasons or anything. And I was told not to come. And so I didn't go. Like a realistic red nose or like a clown nose? No, like a clown nose, yeah. So I guess they got somebody other way to red nose. I don't know. But you know, we're still, I was still friendly with those guys. Those guys are awesome. You know? It's such a like literal expression of like what an actor would object to in a role. Like what I'm a clown to you. Like what do you want me to wear a red nose on my nose? And they're like, could you please wear this red nose on you? But I remember exactly because I was, I had lost my apartment from not being able to pay rent.

25:48Because you know, I was like in my, like I was very young. I did full metal jacket when I was 24. So I must have been like 20 or something like that and doing plays and working in bars and stuff like that. And yeah. So he, I remember my grandfather being, I was on the phone. I didn't have, there was no cell phones. And I was on the phone and my grandfather's sitting across from me. And I was staying with him. And he's like whisper to me, you're going to lose that job, you know? And I'm like, yeah, I know. He goes, you don't care. And I'm like, no, I don't care. And he goes, whatever you're going to do, make sure you're friends when you end it. Whether you do the job or not, just end it as friends. That's what he told me. And I'll never forget that, you know? Have there been other times that you've been in a position to remember your grandfather's advice? I used to happen a lot on criminal intent. I insisted that I never, I never wanted to play a cop on that show. I just wanted to play a man who was a cop.

26:50And so sometimes there were people that wanted me to act more like a cop. And I didn't really know, I don't know what that means. So I did all my research and I did all the interrogation research, the interviewing research. I did all that. I was, I had an opportunity on that show to learn from interrogators and interviewers in law enforcement and from federal to local. So the stuff that I was doing on that show was rooted in the real psychology of interrogation or interviews. Want to school with those people, grow up with them? Well, yes. What school? Rarely? Spence? Rarely. Are you wearing those invisible braces because you keep running your tongue over the back of your teeth? Yes, I am. I'm thinking about getting my teeth fixed. Are they comfortable? You get used to it. Now, please. I... So, those are lovely earrings, are they family heirlooms?

27:54They're from Harry Winston. The places that use is to have blue and gold gift boxes. I work in their corporate sales. Because today, it was killed because Barry was asking about blue and gold gift boxes. Sounds like he was trying to find you. Well, he didn't. So yeah, so they would put choices upon me that I would just refuse to do. You know, it's like I, I'd never met a agent or officer. You know, if you meet them when you're not being handcuffed, they're a person. You know, when you're being handcuffed, they're not a person. They're a law enforcer. You know, but when you meet them under regular, any circumstance other than that, they're people. And they're more interesting as people than they are as cops, you know, obviously they would be, you know, I think all of us are more interesting than our jobs. So I used to run into a lot there. Very rare on films, though. Do you miss having a job like law and order criminal intent where you go to work and then

28:58work all day and then come home and it's like a kind of acting job that you don't, it's pretty hard to get. I think CI is a really bad example for that. CI worked their actors too much. The Times even did an article about it. It was like it was crazy. Kate and I, we were in mostly every scene. I had more dialogue than anybody else on the show, you know, at least three times more. And the two of us, Kate and I, you know, we worked an average of 17, sometimes 18 hours a day, every day for 10 months. It was a brutal, brutal job, you know, yeah, I got paid great and all that. But, you know, I ended up giving my money back to them basically and, I mean, not directly, but I saved them a lot of money just so I'd started doing half to show. I just couldn't do it anymore. So they answered your question to use criminal intended examples, the wrong examples. But yes, I do like that solid job feeling, you know, I think in our days because of

30:02streaming and stuff, I can go and have a solid job with Marvel and I can go and have a solid job with these people and I can do them all at the same time. So yeah, I like it. You did an episode of homicide, which is like, you know, for my money with, with all do respect to your law and order program, maybe the greatest cop procedural ever made. For sure. I mean, I would agree with you 100%. And the episode that you did was essentially a two-hander with you and Andre Brower where you were the guest you are and you were a guy who was caught between the cars of the subway or caught between the platform and the subway car. Yeah. No way that the guy could be saved. And yeah, your character had to be told that over the course of the show and it kind of felt Andre Brower. So Andre Brower was like interviewing him for the murder investigation while also engaging

31:05with him about the fact that he was fully conscious and all the way there. But also there was no way to take him out of that situation without him dying. Yeah. It was based on something that really happened. And so I was crushed between the, from just above the waist down, I was crushed between the car and the platform. So if you were on the platform, you could only see me from the waist up and my back was against the actual car. But my legs and my way, the rest of my waist was hanging down completely damaged. You know, that's the idea of what happened. And you know, all I really remember about doing that is Andre Brower and I like just sitting there for a few days doing this great dialogue that was written. What are you scared? It's not every day you talk to a dead man, huh? I want my fair back.

32:07You want? My dollar is 35. I paid my fair. I didn't get my ride. No. You didn't. Then I get it back. All right. Do what you want with it. But the hell if I get taken, okay, nobody's trying to take you. Yeah. It's like one of my favorite things I've ever done. Did you audition for that part? No. I was asked to do it. Did you know what you were going in to do? When I once I read it, yeah. And I, you know, it's, you were spot on, you know, like I approached it like a two-hander. I mean, that's what it was. So I just approached it like a play. And I just got all the dialogue, many, many pages, the dialogue under my belt in a few days, so did Andre. And we just did it. You know, we did it like a play every day. Had you met him before? No. I was thrilled to meet him. I think he was amazing. It must have been wild. I mean, as I picture it in my mind, the two of you on the set, one of the things that strikes me is you must have been shooting for a week and you're stuck between some way cars.

33:16You know what I mean? Like, you're not literally stuck between some way cars, but there's got to be something there. Yeah. No, the actor's stuck. Look, they found a lot of levels in the look. You know, there's a lot of parts where Andre Broward sits down next to you and that kind of thing. But like just the feeling of looking up at him all the time, you know what I mean? Yeah. It was incredible. And then it got incredibly intimate, you know, towards the end of the piece where he was sort of eventually, you know, he was so good. Like eventually, he eventually ended up leaning into me a bit and being close to me and talking to me closer. As the time came and the more we got to know each other, the characters, I mean, it became a more intimate conversation. But you know, I, I, that piece would not have worked without whoever was playing that cop on the platform had to be great. It really hit me when he passed away. I think I really to love him on, um, men of a certain age in addition to homicide and

34:20Brooklyn, I nine and, you know, for a person that I had never met before in my life, I was really surprised at the extent to which it affected me that he wasn't around. But yeah, you know, there's these actors out there that just to put out incredible work through whole careers, they're not showboats, they don't do a lot of press, they don't put themselves out in front of projects, you know, they, they lead from behind and they're amazing. And he was one of those, I was shook up by the whole thing. I mean, I'm sure, um, his family misses him very much and it was hard, yeah. That's such an offering. I'm so grateful for all your time and, and for your work as well, thank you so much for talking to me. Ah, you're welcome. Vincent Denofrio, he is one of the stars of the latest iteration of the Daredevil franchise, Daredevil born again, it's second season is streaming now on Disney Plus. That's the end of another episode of Bullseye Bullseye recorded at maximum fun world headquarters

35:21in the historic jewelry district of downtown Los Angeles, California. Our crew, or at least a few of us, went to Silver Lake Los Angeles this week to record a Bullseye interview at an open mic at the Lyra Hyperion Theatre. Thank you to Brinne Campbell, who runs that open mic and thanks to our guest, Guy Brannum. That'll show up in some form. Thanks to the members of Maximum Fun, who joined Max Fund and made that happen for us. Our show is produced by speaking into microphones. Our senior producer is Kevin Ferguson. Our producers, Jesus Ambroseo and Richard Roby. Our production fellow at Maximum Fun, Hannah Maraz, our video producer, Daniel Spear. We get booking help on Bullseye from Meredith Davis. Our interstitial music comes from our friend Dan Wally, also known as DJW. You can find his music at DJWSounds.bandcamp.com. Our theme music written and recorded by the GO team. The song is called the huddle formation. Thanks to the GO team. Thanks to their label Memphis Industries for letting us use it. You can follow Bullseye on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube where you will find original video.

36:24Things like me doing an interview with an open mic. I think that's about it. Just remember, all great radio hosts have a signature sign off. Bullseye with Jesse Thorn is a production of MaximumFun.org and is distributed by NPR.