WALKING AROUND

0:00Dave Roberts here. There you are surrounded by fans, sharing wings, sharing drinks, high-fiving random strangers. Everybody remembers the game. Nobody remembers the guy coughing behind you until a few days later. At 2 a.m., you wake up with a fever and your throats on fire. Now what? Urgent care, clothes, ER, slam, telehealth, maybe, but the pharmacy's clothes. You needed a medical emergency kit. These aren't first aid kits. They contain essential prescriptions used for over 30 common conditions. Sinus and ear infection, UTI, stomach bug, travelers diarrhea, and more. On hand before you need them. Use your doctor-developed guidebook to select the right prescription or call their telemedicine doctor standing by. It's like an urgent care and drugstore at home. When you're sick, traveling, or stranded, you'll wish you ordered a medical emergency kit. Order online in minutes and it's shipped to your door and say $45 with my promo code blue at urgentcarekit.com-slasblue. That's promo code blue at urgentcarekit.com-slasblue.

1:01Welcome back for your latest hit of Inside Line. You won't stop shopp for all the news, using issues in the game of rugby and painting alongside me, Michael Ackinson. I feel like I'm talking like a cattle salesman of home. Very, very fast. A 20-hour, 20-hour, 20-hour. Hello, Michael. Hey, Young-in. I'm very well. Speaking of selling things, selling yourself. I'm selling myself. Can we? Yeah. The plot. Let's get to the cash for comments. Let's get to the cash for comment. There is no cash exchanging hands just in case people representatives from the ATO were watching and they do watch. I'm going to come back to people financially. Yes, yes. We should have mentioned that weeks ago. But I want to give a massive shout out to Duncan from Bumph for Vintage, online vintage rugby or all sporting kit really, and also does some great content. He is in South Africa at the moment, covering the greatest rivalry tour, which is living up to many expectations. But he very kindly donated this incredible piece from mid-90s, 1995 Rugby World Cup. This was the Wallaby's alternate strip. It's a cracker.

2:03And it is close to my favourite item of clothing across any category. You know who I was attending? Jumps to mind in that jersey is Joe Roth. Because I feel like the only fade-out I've ever seen of anyone wearing this jersey in action is J. Roth. Yeah, well he was just a kid. I think he might have him. Did he make his taboo at that World Cup? He may have. Might be wrong, but he was certainly under your teenager. Cheezing was called same age as me. So I remember at the time it's like, oh look at this guy. Did you play him? No, no he was down in Canberra. Oh right, okay. And I wasn't good enough to get anywhere near the rap stuff. The rap stuff. So you played first, you've been. I did but I got injured. All right. Yeah. What position were you? I was a winger. Well yeah. I was a fallback, but we had the Australian schoolboy's fallback in our team. Who was that? My good mate Christopher Newton. Okay. Wow. There you go. I know I never reached great heights, mate. Okay. But great speeds by the same. Right speeds. Yeah, he's still run a bit. Speaking of good footballers. Yep. You came back from Japan a month ago, whatever it was.

3:07Yes. And that's what we should have mentioned this week. We should have. And on that tour of Japan, you obviously rub shoulders with the Walleries, Aidan Ross made a point of calling you out and telling you that he loves listening to Inside Line. He did a presser. I'd never met Aidan Ross. He did a presser up there. In afterwards he mentioned how much he enjoys watching Inside Line. So Aidan, you are now our number one favourite player on Inside Line. Said he enjoys the the footy chat. Yep. You know, news, news and issues. Wow. There you go. So there you go. Aidan Ross is Trans-Tasman Calibur. Obviously. He is just Aussie throwing through. Yeah. They call him Aussie Aidan now. Yeah. Yeah. Just like Aussie Mike Harris and Aussie Clyde Rathbone before. So each week we need to, you know, wise Aidan Ross not in the test team. Well, great segue to our first talking point because we are building towards the second test between Walleries and Lost Boomers early Sunday morning. 7am kick off this Sunday. Yeah. It's a little bit more friendly. Yeah, more consumable. And as always, midweek, a little bit of team news floating around Pato and you've got your

4:12snout in the trough. Yes. So, yeah. Well, as we kind of forecast last week of less-kiss making changes, you know, as you did between Japan one and Japan two, Argentina one and Argentina two. We're expecting some more changes. Ike Tao and Suwali. Yeah, I think you're going to come back into the midfield. Right. To start. Yeah. I believe that's just a selection decision. Obviously, Lendon play last week. He was fit, but Aidan trained. Yep. Suwali came off the bench and performed very well. So that combination is back. I think we're going to see some changes at 5-8, Carter Gordon is injured from what I believe. So, Ben Donaldson, do you know what? I don't know the exact injury. Because what's he had like his calf and his quite of bineas main issues this last is shame. Yeah. Nine to ten months. I put the moc on writing about him at the weekend. Take a nice to see him. Yeah. Getting through tests. Yeah. And obviously, he picked something up out of that. So, Ben Donaldson will come back in,

5:13presume that means Declan Meredith comes back into the picture on the bench. The big one that everyone's been talking about is the back row. Yeah. After some superb performances from all three of the back row last week. Well, Tom Cooper in particular. And questioning whether Harry Wilson would come back into the side. What do they could get back into the side? Yep. He will be back into the side, but Tom Cooper is our injured. I can't. What I'm told. So, we won't know whether or not. Can Androm get to kick down the road again for another week. Yeah. And I would be willing to bet this jersey, for instance, on if Hoops was injured, Harry would probably be back in the starting side anyway. If he wasn't injured. If Hooper wasn't injured. Yeah. And Harry would be back in anyway. I tend to agree. And look, I think we're kind of a lot of the questions that were framed up as like just Harry make it back into the team. And that's all perfectly justified. But these sort of situations actually point to

6:16the value of having that depth. Right. Like you very rarely have the perfect world. You know, if you set that question up is in the perfect world, who's in the back row? Well, that's a question to ask. But the other thing is is you never, you really get that perfect world. There's often injuries. So having multiple people to come up and play in that is, you know, it's so very valuable. And maybe Harry Wilson doesn't automatically start in the future. But I don't think that that means he's not good enough to be there. Yeah. He doesn't bring value. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? I think you're talking amongst those back rows. I think Harry Wilson gets my line a little bit, to be honest. I'm with you. I'm a big fan. And actually we we point to the work rate of like a Bobby Valatini, for example, last week. He top the tally and everything. That's usually Harry Wilson. Yeah. He's usually the most runs, the most tackles. So and, you know, obviously just that hard on the sleeve stuff that I think

7:16has been really important for the wall of his last couple of years. And I think on Bobby, incredible statistics from the weekend personally for him. But I don't think those statistics are any different because he had the number eight on his back. You know, there's a lot of people there. We've got a shift Bobby to eight. He has had some incredible international seasons at eight. But he plays six at Brumbies. So it's not like you're missing anything from Bobby V if you're starting at six and not at eight. I don't think it makes any difference to him. I'd be surprised if there's a massive difference in those positions. There might be some scrumaging kind of perspectives. Yeah. In the olden days, the number eight picked the ball up and ran with it. Be good to see Bob do that if it was stable enough. Obviously that's the back of a scrum. And he will be. Back ground moves. Remember in the 90s, that was all the rage willy-o would pop out and give it inside. They were like elaborate moves. I remember playing schoolboy and even clubfruity. And we had the move was called Pepsi and it was eight, nine, 15 go blind. Yeah. Yeah.

8:18It happened all the time. Like at least once a game you ran that. You do still see it sometimes in those situations. If you want to get, you know, it's a big blind and you want to get that number out as fast as possible and soak up the flanker or the half back. I don't know if the call name has changed or I may have just given away state secrets from Jeep's Rugby Club in Maris. I'll be in the cash group for next year's seasons. Hopefully they've moved on from Pepsi and they've got, they've called it something else. Yeah. But yeah. And anything that's over anyway. Yeah. And you know what? As much as I love my Gallop, as Jeep's haven't had a great year across the board. So yeah. Tough year. Maris though. Top of the pops again. Okay. Anyway. Nice one. I'll cry about that. It's been 20 years. Yeah. And some other. Yeah. Look, I think, Mike Dermott's got picked up an injury. So I call on it. Because I'm a small kid. I run there on the bench. That's about the extent of the changes that have floated through to me. I mean, it's a it's a big talking point.

9:22It is a massive form. Well, see, look, it is because on the weekend, he wasn't great. Yeah. And I say that I think pretty objectively. And I'm a massive tape fan. So I'm not going to be throwing the baby up with the bathwater. I, you know, I'd be shocked if they weren't picking him if he wasn't injured this way. Yeah. He didn't have a great game. He's passed which everyone has criticized for years now. I think it's not as bad as people point to, but on the weekend, it was. Yeah. Kicking as well. And also just one issue they've had. The wallbys have had this year as a bit of the continuity and the connection has disappeared when Lonegan and whoever the starting 10 is. It does suffer. Yeah. It definitely seems to suffer. A bit like Harry, I think people kind of stuck on the same old track with Tate a little bit. I think there's yeah, there's just a fight Curtis is. I think there is from the weekend, but I don't think Tate's core skills are as bad as people make out now. I think at the beginning of his career, because he was known as

10:24like this running attacking threat. And those other core skills weren't quite as strong. I think he's worked to overcome that for the most part. Yeah. I think we can just go on. It wasn't great. There's two things to that. I think that Lonegan's rise and consistency, you know, for the starting he's okay, by the way, he will play as a more that has kind of highlighted, not highlighted, but you know, highlighted, exemplified. Tate not being in his best form, but I also bracket Tate and Tom right together in a way. Neither of those two guys are playing great for the at the moment. Certainly not to their potential. I think that's probably worth, you know, because they have such high bar those two guys, both of them are coming back from serious injury, missed a majority of the Super Rugby season, right? Yeah. Right was an ACL and Tate was a really bad hamstring, wasn't it?

11:25So both of them I imagine that's going to take time. I think we're getting we've become a bit used to people coming back from serious knee injuries or whatever serious injuries and just bouncing straight back into yeah to form. That doesn't always happen. And I think what we're seeing with those two is they're just taking time to get back to to their best. Now, where's the point where you sort of say, are you ever going to get there? Yeah. Who knows? But I don't think we're there yet with either and I think that's the perception of the Wallaby's coaches. Yeah. They see that both of these guys can get back to their very best potential and the pair of them are world class when they're at their best. Tom right was outstanding in 24 and 25. Yeah. Tate was so good coming off the bench. Yeah. And I think that they're prepared to give them the time and the time in the saddle to get back to the you just reminded me of the fact that Tom right didn't go to the last World Cup completely.

12:30Yeah. I know. Crazy. But yes, another thing I want to say, really the half-back if Clarni Thomas was on the bench and I think Clarni's I think Clarni's a very good player. I think he's earned his caps that he's got to this point and being in his squad. But I would love to think I don't love this day and age of rugby where we sub a nine and a 10 out of a game with 10, 15, 20 to go. Like it's almost a given now. Yeah. I think those two positions in particular should be viewed as like we only really replace you unless we absolutely have to. Yeah. Like the game is not being run properly. You're clearly busted. Yeah. Something like that. Not just like, all right, we need a spark or we need to get this guy on. Yeah. Like there's 10 minutes to go. Let's give him a shot. I would love to think they're going into this game of like Ryan Lonegan has been so good and the team looks so good with him there. Yep. Calling the shots or part of calling the shots. That unless there's a real, real need to inject something or get him off. Sure. He's going to play 80

13:32and Clarni, you'd be ready to go whenever we need you. Yeah. But just be aware you may not get on. Well, that's what I would love to think. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's part of that's the flip side to, you know, we're seeing a bit of that rotation stuff out of Les Ares aren't we? And we've debated about whether that's going to happen in this four-game block or it's going to continue right through the year there does come a point. It's rapidly approaching where you got a bed down. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. And that may also mean not only sticking with one person to start, but sticking with them for much longer minutes. Uh, flowing from that on to just something that's been announced in the last 24 hours, probably less, 12 hours really. Uh, a quadruple header. Yeah. Set for a core stadium in October, the day of the blood as low, second blood as low. Yes. Between the wallabies and the all blacks will also see feature the walleroos taking on Scotland, which we've known for a while. Yeah. But in between those two test matches, the FUCA FUCA Cup, is that what it is? Of course it is.

14:33Yeah. I didn't even think about it. Ironically, you won't be involved this time around. But in between that, we're going to see the Aussie men's seven team take on Fiji and the Aussie women's take on New Zealand. Yeah. Like Schmorgers board. It is. It's good. And I think this was motivated by they were thinking about it and it's right that Australia doesn't get to see certainly their sevens teams much at all. Yeah. That we have World Champion, Women's Team and the men's are there or they're about consistently. We just don't see them play. Yeah. I've got no local. Apart from obviously the Australian leg of the sevens, but it's in person. And the wonderful broadcast variety. Of course. No, I mean in the flesh. I mean in the flesh. Yeah. No, you are. So it's something that this means a very aware. Yeah, this is born out of a way to kind of address that. And they love they love playing on home saw. Yeah. They get a real kick out of playing. Particularly this will be if you're playing Perth, there's maybe a handful of people from WI, I'm not sure in that seventh

15:33program, but a good many are from the Eastern Seaboard and they'll be able to play in front of family and friends who. Yeah. It's a burden for them too to travel around the world. Yeah. To see their kids play. So that's really good. And I guess with the timing of that, it's leading up to the first round of the sevens world series in Dubai. In Dubai. Dubai. I wonder also given the timing of that and that will be after the conclusion of NREL W. Should be be seeing Teagan Levi back in Oldsy Seventh's gold on that occasion. Well, what's the day to this? I didn't write it down 17. 17. I've talked. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that's she back. She's back. She's back. She's back. Yeah. She's a killing it in NREL W. Can I be critical on one point? Here's a question for you. Okay. It's all right. You're in time. That's fine. Will there be any Walla Rooz? Will there be any seven stars that then keep the boots on and then run around for the Walla Rooz or Vos first? Do you want me to answer that? No, it's a rhetorical question.

16:38Stainy Lane. Yeah. Right, O'Chief. That was a challenge set to be by Nick Fipps. I shared something on Instagram about like the greatest sledges in Australian vernacular. Right. And there's like Rato champ, steady on chief. Stainy Lane. Thanks, Muscles. Yeah. Hard nut buttercup. That's all the thing. And he replied and said, can your challenges to insert as many of these towards Pado on this week's inside line without him noticing? You can. You've given him up. Yeah, exactly. If you had a champ, you had a couple of times order. What's going on? You know, the funny thing is the difference between champ and champion. Yeah. A champ is a real like, it's really patronizing. Where's champions not quite? I don't know. Context is required. Former director of sport at Stainy Sport Ben Kimber loves a champion. Champion. But he says it with like, it's all endearing. Yeah. It's a component coming from BK. Yeah. Okay. It is a good context. Yeah. Context is everything. Yeah. Well said champion.

17:38Thanks, Muscles. Back to my original point. Yes. I'm curious. I'll put it as curious rather than criticism because there's sometimes reasoning behind decisions that not fully aware of. A curious why the Walla Ruiz are kicking off at what's that? About 12. It'll be about 12. 12. 12.45. They're the first cab off rank in that order. Yeah. Why not closer to the, why not the the sevens, two sevens games and then the walla Ruiz and the walla. I don't have an answer for you. Yeah. That's a good question. So the walla Ruiz is what times that kick off three, 43, 44. Okay. Well, I mean, even if you, if you had not had the sevens, they usually put, they don't kind of back them up like reserve grade straight into, you know, first grade in a club context. They don't have a two o'clock kick off. They need to have an hour in between for the warmups, etc. So it probably would have kicked off at one o'clock

18:42anyway. You know what I mean? If they went bang bang. Yeah. So it is a fraction early. I don't know. There's, I mean, maybe I might be jumping it, shall I? There's an argument to be made that, you know, you're, you're wedging the sevens in between two test matches. That's the best opportunity for the sevens to get some people watching them. Do you know what I mean? If they had to put it before the test matches, maybe people don't necessarily show for, for just the sevens. Yep. Okay. Valid. As I said, I put it out there as a curiosity rather than a criticism. Yeah. That obviously is the last of the men's test matches before they then go to the North. It is? Yes. That's right. You've written a little note here, which I think is an interesting talking point. We will face the spring box in a few weeks time from now, but we will face the spring late September. And then the all blacks. Yeah. After they've played this massive series and huge tour, you've raised an interesting point. Does that help the wall of these calls against the box

19:44in the blacks? Well, it's, I mean, it might be a accuser being overly optimistic, but it's the Australian rugby's pretty much status quo. Yeah, exactly. Default. They are going hard at it. They're going hammer and tom. In every way. Every possible way. Media, physically, emotionally, psychologically. Yeah. And it goes for, it's, yeah, we're only halfway through. Yeah. They're playing four tests. Four tests. And the last one being in the US, so they all pick up and travel to the US. On top of that, you've had these midweek games. So it's not just, you know, our first 23 slash 30, there is a huge amount of players, certainly for, yeah. Well, both sides, obviously. So the question is, yeah, does that help the wall of these? There's an argument that it might not going to, I'm not going to say, but there's an argument that it might be exactly the opposite. Like the wall of these came out of the lines to battle hard and didn't they? But I just get the

20:46sense that like, maybe there's an emotional come down, certainly for the box, they've got to come over here and play us in Perth, which is kind of a can be another suburb of South Africa at times. So that helps. But that last test match, which is in Baltimore, is a fortnight before we played, we played them. Yeah. The wall of these play them. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, yeah, look, every year we look for, you know, roots of blind optimism about why this might be the year. Maybe the fact that the all blacks, I know they lost their first test of the year, first one under Dave Rene on the weekend just gone, but they obviously have been very impressive and up to that point. So I like the fact that their winning probably stops Jamie Pando from writing his usual, this is the year of all of these because Pando, though he tries to be, he tries to be virtual, as an all black supporter. And I've always viewed it as him just poking the bed, right? Much to

21:51the, I don't know, really gruffly, well, much to the disgust of everyone, rugby strikers, I'm stop doing that, yeah. But the, yeah, I mean, last year, for example, I thought we were really well set up to finally break that Edin Parkhood, and they were bloody close. They gave up that usual kind of 20 point lead early on and ran them down. And they were, there were moments in that that I thought it's on here. And it wasn't no spoiler. But look, I think, yeah, it's very dangerous getting into this territory. I think if the ingredients, if the ingredients work out in Australia's favour, one of them could be that, yeah, it will be interesting to see how they, those two nations bounce back after this tour. Yeah, sure. That's a huge, whether it benefits Australia or not, it's just, it's just curiosity. Because they are throwing everything at each other, as you said, on and off the field. Like, even, and there's a question we'll get into it later, but even the

22:52psychology around the media stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they're just, they're, you know, like, I've really enjoyed the footy side of it, actually, and the craziness between the coaches in this that and the other. Yeah. What I have not enjoyed is Twitter at the moment. Yeah. Like, I'm staying off the thing even more than normal. Like, it's, it's feral. Like South African rugby fans strident in their opinion and the best of times. Now that we're in the middle of this greatest rivalry, the Kiwis are in there. They're both freeze-framing individual decisions and the fact that it's like it's getting like horrendous to watch and to listen to. So, you know, the greatest rivalry to a can't end quick enough on that front. I know it is officially called the greatest rivalry to a, and people might call me a salty Australian rugby fan, I don't know, but I don't, I don't like referring to it as that. I think it is a bit disrespectful because of some of the other rivalries.

23:54Like, not the least of which is Australia and New Zealand, which... Well, there's a couple of countries who previously made a war. Yeah. England and Scotland, I reckon, would be on England and Ireland, England and France, England and everyone. Yeah. That's true. England and Argentina. I looked at that, that it's to them. It is, yeah, yeah. It is a little bit of a wank. But I've even heard some formal blacks who like do media or punditry. Yeah. Now, also themselves say, I always view Australia as a bigger rival. Like, maybe from a contest point of view. Yeah. At the moment, the last 20 years, you could argue being, that's, it's been longer than that since we last won the bled as low. I can, I understand that. Maybe why this rivalry is stronger. And throughout history, even though we've had a really strong rivalry with the all blacks, like, if you look at the win-loss ledger, they've, yeah, it's pretty heavily in their favour. But I have found it interesting that some form of all blacks have said, look, we always love playing South Africa. Yeah. Big games, big rivalry,

24:55etc. But it wasn't, it wasn't a stravy New Zealand. Yeah. So, well, I mean, if at least Kisses got any kind of, of that origin spirit still in him, like you mentioned how, you know, the all blacks will pick up on the, on the smallest of slides, the Australian media saying, yeah, this is the year. Like, surely you, you're, you're really ramming this down. Yeah. The wall of these threads like these guys don't write you. Yeah. They're the greatest rivalry is each other. Yeah. They think you're the, yeah. The little brother, like, it'd be, yeah, if the few, if the shoe was on the other foot, yeah. And we were talking about our greatest rivals as South Africa, blah, blah, then the Kiwis would be, yeah, fuming. In a B, yeah, feel the vibe. Speaking of, you just reminded me like the Kiwis picking up any sort of slight, particularly from something said in the media. Yeah. It made Richard E. Grubb. It made, no, I didn't get that one. Do you remember that one? Oh, you've got the 2015, you've just just, well done. My former, my former paper. Oh, well done. No, it reminded me when Kellewe made

25:58his debu. I think it was against the all blacks in Australia. And then he might have spoken to Tom Deeson afterwards and he said, like, he, he basically said, like, the aura is not that strong. But what he meant was like, once you've played them, you realize they're human. Yeah. They're another rugby team. And yes, they're very, very good and all that stuff. He didn't actually mean it. I think the way they took it was just like, it was kind of like, all right, I've played them now and I realized like they're not superhuman. They're not more at all like they are. You can tackle them. They do bleed stuff like that. And then he went and played. And I'm member here in the story that Brody Ritalic came up to him and they, you know, they got pumped over there. Brody Ritalic came up to me. It was like, how's the aura now? Yeah. Yeah. It probably points to why Tom and Andy Keloay have never done a story together. Oh, really? Oh, another story. We've got a good sledge for Tommy coming later in Malback. But before we get to Malback, plenty happening in, we're going to mention the play and fly over or we're just happy where they go. Well, that's another thing that I think is like

27:02God's turn into a Twitter fight. Yeah, it's turned into a Twitter fight. Like, I remember seeing it Saturday morning and I think we ran it on today's show a few times because it's incredible vision. But I, apart from being like, holy moly, that's amazing. That was about the extent of my reaction. Because I feel like South Africa have been doing that a big amount of time. Forever. But usually it's 100 metres above the sea. Yes. It was very much pushing the boundary of the situation. Look, put it this way. For someone, the pair of us, we've both worked inside football stadiums quite often. You know, I'd quite like the heads up if they plan to do that again. Yeah, I'm like to stand outside. Because I don't want you making that decision for me that it's an acceptable risk. Yes. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. It was very much. It was a lot of Twitter fights. And it has now everyone's attacking South Africa's. Yeah. You know, that's the way they're South African community are feeling. They're feeling attacked. Well, for all our South African viewers and listeners, I'm with you on this one. It's fine. Just fly a little bit higher, guys.

28:06I thought the first angle I saw, which is that wide angle above the stadium, I did think it was AI because that first plane really, really dips and gets really, really light. But then when you see all the other vision, you hear all the aviation experts going, oh, yeah, that's a bit close. T-I-A-B-T-I-A. Play on, I reckon. Plenty happening in the Australian rugby scene. Yes. Yeah, big week rugby. All those kicks off, not this weekend, the following weekend. And it started a lot of conversation around what's the purpose of this comp. What are we getting out? What's the objective? Should we use the Max Bury thing? Yeah, what are we getting into that? Yeah. The Max Bury, those who aren't, maybe entirely aware. I'm sure most people have listened and watched. It's contracted to the force. He has signed a deal to join the War of Tires. Yeah. Contracts generally speaking run through to the end of October. November one. November one. So he is technically contracted with the force. But the force haven't named him in their squad

29:10to play Super Robios and the Tars wanted him, wanted him, but aren't getting him because. Because essentially that has always been a bit of a grey zone. So people changing superclubs. Well effectively finished Super rugby the end of June sort of thing. Yeah. Pardon me. And then play Club Footy. So they're kind of still busy. But then you got like September October until you're technically on contract with your new club. And that's caused drummer for years. This is how it goes. It's allowed to train where. Because the old club don't want you still hanging around. I mean, they're still paying you obviously because you're on contract. But they don't need you. They don't want you running reps at training. They don't have any motivation to get your fenders. They don't want the liability of you getting injured either. Well, that's still on you. So in the past there have been some contract swaps done. But in this instance, and look, this is what that grey zone's been exacerbated

30:13by the fact they've put a comp into September now. So in various places, people who are moving have already swapped clubs. So well, yeah, I'll come back to him. Luke Rimer has come up from the Brumbies to the Tars and Rylee, Tristan Rylee and Le Arfi Tully Attainer. I already down at the Brumbies. And they're effectively already part of those clubs on new contracts, right? But rugby Australia own them both. Yeah. So it's money from one pocket to the other. Right. There are other guys like Tom Lambert who is moving to the Reds. But the Waritas are going to play him in sub-Rogue BAU for them because they need him to because they've got some players away, Angus Bell, etc. Gollip Ben Volla-Volla. He's playing for Queensland before he goes to the drill. So there are circumstances. Harry McGlock and Phillips has gone from the Reds to the Force and is already

31:15at the Force and is going to play. But that's because as part of his deal to go to the Force, it was done the agent did this on purpose because he'd seen that Grey Zone problem in the past. The Reds agreed to release him and the Force agreed to pay him already. So they're now paying his wages. So the Reds, the Force didn't have to pay the Reds a fee to get him. They've just started to agree to end his contract with the Reds sooner. The Force picked it up sooner. Yeah, that's it. Now Max Bury, none of that stuff has happened. The Waritas and the Force have been talking about trying to figure out a deal for Max Bury's contract. Would you call it a kind of a buyout fee or is it just assuming his contract? Yeah. Not sure. But in essence, they only offered around about half of what Max is got the Waritas. So it's kind of like,

32:16how about we share it and he can be on contract to us. So the Force have said, no, like what's in it for us? That's probably. And both sides are feeling a little bit aggrieved and a little bit annoyed at the situation. But the end result is Max Bury, fitters of fiddle wanting to play is going to be sitting on his hands. The reigning super rugby oz player of the Twins. Exactly. For the whole month. Not playing for the Force, not playing for the Waritas. Just stuck in this No Man's Land. And they've been unable to come to a resolution. The Tars and rugby Australia who owned the Tars are saying, well, an office being made. And that's short. Someone said to me that yesterday, surely that's better than paying two months. Like paying his full contract, you know, we'll pay for half of it. Sort of thing. Yeah. But the Force are also within their rights as like, well, we paid for McLachlan Phillips for the full time. Why would we want him? Why are we paying for your play? You know what I mean?

33:19And you're putting us in an awkward situation. Why wouldn't the Force just play in the for paying? They don't need it. Like an, and I guess you at that point, you're kind of like, well, it's in the best interest of the Tars and Australian rugby. But the best interest of the Tars for him still be playing footy. Why are we going to do that? In the end, whilst we would all like to think that their motivations are funneling up for the best for Australian rugby, they all still have to win footy games and make finals and all that sort of thing. They've all got commercial drivers and sponsors and all the rest of it. Which I would think like, I know it's not a massive tournament, it's not a massive, with eyeballs, etc. But putting your best team in the park, your best squad, like, well, if they're going to, if they're going to go, well, no, we're not going to take that deal on it. Just want to just play him anyway. The Force benefit in your month. They might have plans to give them minutes to someone who they want to see progress through.

34:21It's a win for Australian rugby, it's a win for the Waritas. It doesn't really bring a lot whole lot for the Force. I'm arguing for the Force here. I don't have a dog in the fight. To me, this all just comes back to Rugby Australia. It should just cut the contract and assume the contract and get Max Bury playing. Because it's the right thing for the player. The right thing for Australian rugby. It's the right thing for the Waritas. Max Bury, as it stands, Joey Fowler is the only, there's three five-eighths in the Waritas squad next year. Bernard, who's not starting, Bernard Fowler is not starting until November. Right. Just as part of his deal. Joey Fowler, who is a highly talented young kid, Sydney Yendi, Junior Wallabies, all of that, hasn't played professional game yet, and Max Bury, who's played 20 odd Super Rugby games. You'd probably assume that Bury is in fact going to be at least start as the deputy to Fowler. Does that make sense? Yeah.

35:30But comedy of calamity Fowler's now even out for round one because he got a concussion flying club rugby. They've caught up Joe Dillon, who used to be down at the Brumbies. Another junior Wallabie from Manly is come back to Sydney and played from Manly. He's going to be playing for the Tars at the start of... Do you have Hendrin in this squad too? Hendrin, and yeah, Sid Harvey as well. There was a bit of excited chat that Sydney Hendrin has been playing tenet training and running reps and this and that and the other. I think it sounds good, and we've both said that it would go. I think from early exploration of that as an option, it showed itself that it's going to be a little bit longer-term project. Yeah. Hendrin was playing ten for Renwick for the backstab. I think if they were going to use anyone who'd be Hendrin ahead of Sid Harvey at this point. But it is very curious that they like with Rhyme, for instance, Tristan Riley, that they didn't just do a deal with at the end of Super Rugby. He's done with the force. It comes back to Sydney.

36:32But he came back to Sydney and played in all. Someone has to pay Max Bury. It's his job. The question is coming down to who's paying Max Bury to do his job. The force, as it stands, will end up paying for all of it. Not to their gain, obviously he's not playing anything, but it does mean that the Waritas can't use it because you're right. If he played for the Waritas whilst he was on a force contract and he did his nail something, then I think the legal implications of that is that the force is liable for all the rehab costs. If he was out for a year, for example, I mean, I'm sure they'd worked this out, but legally, you'd hope the force are on the hook for all those rehab costs and even maybe the rehab itself. Very, very complicated. But it doesn't need to be. Do you know what I mean? We're also not talking, say this with the greatest respect about Max Bury. We're not talking about a bloke who's earning a million bucks a year. Two months of his

37:35wages were, you know, it's still a lot of money, but you're talking it's about one week of yours. God, please, says the TV host who's just come from a photoshoot. I've seen some fries you've sat on your hands with that one for like 40 minutes. Yeah, well done. Well, look, Robby Australia could cut a check and have this all done by tomorrow. And I feel for Max Bury because the absence of them doing that tells him something. Yeah, that they're prepared to just let him sit out for a month, yeah, instead of getting him playing, paying the money and him playing. Yeah, interesting. And it is an interesting competition. This I mean, it feels a space that many have been crying out for for some times. It's the death of the former NRC. And everyone knew we needed something back in this space. So, you know, well done, we've got it back. But it's funny seeing the varying approaches to it.

38:43You know, whether it's a place where you try and get Guiser on the Friends of Walleries more game time or you're trying to upskill and get running in the legs of Guiser or more fringe. Super rugby. Yeah, yeah, same with coaches, you know, look at the force. They've put Damien steel in charge. Yeah, head coach, Lockhe McCaffrey. I know there's no head coach at the warriotars at the moment. But even last year when McKellor was there, Lockhe McCaffrey was the head coach. But then the Brumbies like Stephen Larkin was heading up the corner. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, he spoke to me for the first time this week. And he's he's he's arrived at Ballymor like Gangho Yeah, to get shit done. Get started. Yeah, no, it's absolutely right. There's a philosophical question that I don't know has been quite answered. Different people are doing it different ways. And McCaffrey, because as people who follow the warriotars Twitter account, what might have seen, we pop down and had a coffee with my brother McCaffrey. Can he buy your coffee? No, they have it. They just have a machine down there. It does because it's in the middle of, I don't know,

39:45well, it was a decent coffee. It was, wasn't it? Brumbies boy, I said question. Yeah, well, good question, Brumbie boy. The yeah, it's in the middle of nowhere shops was like it's a bit of a wasteland down there at Daceyville. So it's a fair hike to go get a coffee. So I think that the the players, know, the club invested in a decent coffee machine. So, okay, it was a good coffee. That's a very long answer to a nothing question. Okay. But McCaffrey even said it in his, why are you so intent on just affirming that it was a good coffee like? Because I was asked. It's lucky say you like don't tell anyone it was junk or? Oh, well, that's true. Yeah, no, there was coffee for comment, which is, you know, it's a concept you know all about. Hey, man, I'm giving my stuff back. You didn't give the coffee back. Did you give that one back? No, I didn't. So, but he said in his press release last year we went with, we give the Academy Guys the first crack and we're going to do that again this year. So they're very much like let's put minutes

40:46into the guys who didn't get much during the year because there's a whole bunch of, when you look at it, there's a whole group of guys within a super rugby franchise who'll train all year, but maybe not, you know, might get one game or no games. Then they'll go back and play shoot shield. But they need high level footies, you know, and this is a step up from club footies. So they plug that that time into them and the Brumbies, whilst they've got some pretty impressive names they look like. And most of them do to be fair. Most of them have got lots of rising talent, some Academy Guys, some young guys. Yeah, the best of a couple of club guys as well. So, yeah, but yeah, you're right because it's short. So you can have that philosophy, but there's only guaranteed three games. You play one in the old one game against each of the other franchises and then it's a final for the two best. So you don't get, what's that?

41:46Yeah, it's 180 minutes or 40. So you've got to squeeze all of those goals for development. Giving you 241. So that's 160. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right. And you got to, you got to achieve all, you got to tick a whole bunch of boxes within that time frame, you know, like, and particularly guys like, you know, wrote down the name, look, Nick Frost, Tom Liner, Perisi, Zach Lomax coming back for the course. They want minutes. They want to show themselves to the Wallaby's coaches that they're, you know, ready to go to to come back into the Wallaby squad or to get promoted into the Wallaby's so. So I guess the question is does it need to be longer? It does. Yeah, but it's not as easy as you said and done. Obviously. Yes, because it's cashola, which we've just spent a lot of time talking about with regards to one particular player. Yeah, situation in Max Burie. The same issue that Rugby Australia has with like, fronting up and paying him two months earlier than

42:49otherwise going to have to is an even bigger issue when you like, all right, let's double a competition. Yes, yeah, well, I guess that's, it's logistics only. The, the, the, the idea with behind this was that everyone who is playing it is already getting paid to a certain degree. I'm not sure about what sort of deals go on for people who are coming up from club rugby or whatever, probably a nominal match fee. But there's, you know, there's that and then there's a calendar question as well. So the, the argument to, to go longer is because, say for example, the Tazagot 3 likes playing in the NPC. Yeah. And they were, they were faced with the choice of playing a longer stint with, you know, the NPC is a good kind of done off top of my head, but it's been going for a month or two. For a month already. Yeah. So they, they, they got the opportunity to, to play more footies, as you said before, like that's a huge goal. Yeah. For young players to play more footies. So they were given kind of a choice. I'll take this offer or hang around and play some shoot shield and then playing this three game comp. Yeah. And it's just not, it's not a huge

43:54selling no factor for these young guys. You're down both as of the world and want to just get more footy. So what it did for like a tained med, for example. So there is, the calendar is the other part. So how do you fit all of this in? Because currently most sub rugby franchises will have October off. Yeah. And then start preseason in November, start a November. Yeah. Train all the way through to Christmas, have a few weeks off and then keep training right? Yeah. There is an argument to be made and the reds have kind of made this with their, their off season schedule that you're better of playing all the way through, you know, playing or training. Yeah. All the way through to the end of November, like the Wallubis do. Yeah. And then taking leave in December with the Wallubis, everyone being aligned and then coming back and starting again. And as you know as a redsman, that's that's exactly what the reds are doing this year for the first time ever. They're going to

44:55train through October and then they're going on a tour. They're playing in Japan. Yeah. They're playing two games in Japan and then two games in Italy against Bennett on. So those clubs that they've got relationships with. Yeah. And then they all come back and have December off. So that seems to be a model that I reckon can work to extend that super-eyed B.A.U. And broadly speaking, there has been discussions about this happening, being extended. You know, they talked about the Pacific teams coming in to play in this. Yes. Yes. That's how it would work. Yeah. And I guess that's where that solves your money question too. So if they can get some money from the government to assist in the running of that comp, then suddenly some of those problems. It's got to be extended the same way because what we should be aiming for is a competition that gives our players what they need without having to go to the NPC. Yes. I love that players, and we've seen plenty individual cases over the last few years in particular. I love seeing

45:59players go over there and keep playing and want to challenge themselves and get exposed to more high level rugby. But we should want to be able to provide that here. Yeah. And you remove club rugby itself as a bit there too, doesn't it? Because you've got guys who would normally be totally playing for their club. So everything else just gets slightly reduced. You can't fault the player from making a choice. No, no, no. It's a great comp. Yeah. Many, many guys come out of NPCs. Stints are much better player, but we should be looking to potentially train and train God of Wallabies jersey up for the back of it. You did? Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, that'd be good to see it extended. Just something I want to finish on before you get a mailbag and we'll probably have to slice and dice mailbag just on Vern, more specifically on Vern. Stern, Stern, Vern. I don't think it'll come to any great surprise to anyone that one of the things you mentioned in his first media obligation this week was that he wanted to add physicality and have a hard edge

46:59to the reds because that's his style. That's the way the blues have been under him. That's what took them to the title in 2024. And there'd be some people out there that would argue that's what the reds. Probably one thing, if anything, the reds have lacked a little bit. Not to say their players aren't hard or don't have a crack and aren't physical, but they seem to be more a team that wanted to score from everywhere than maybe were willing to roll their sleeves up first. Am I reading too much into it that it may be a big adiggered Australian rugby from a Kiwi perspective? And not intended to be a little sliver. So for people in Miss City, Stern, Vern caught it turned up and did some media on his, I don't know if it was his first day, but his first media conference anyway and spoke about the part that I want to bring is an edge. I'm paraphrasing here and probably miss quoting him, but it was along the lines of like the Queenslander, like a lot of Australian teams that brilliant on their day and can beat anyone, but it's you've got to be able to

48:02roll the sleeves up and win in all circumstances. I reckon you're right, like we were talking about this earlier. Oftentimes you ask New Zealand coaches who come over here, I've done this in the past seeing if anyone will slip up and sort of say, what did you see when you were coaching against them? How did you, what were the weaknesses that you were looking to exploit? Now mostly, they'll duck those questions that, you know, look, they're very diplomatic. There's always a Kiwi streak, even the guys who are coming over to play. So they tend to be pretty diplomatic about that stuff, but yeah, that caught a, he did say something like the Australian high performance system has always fascinated me. So I reckon he's yet another, we've seen in the past, so all these great coaches look over to Australia and go, that really should work. It could work. Yeah, why isn't it working? Yeah, I reckon if I go over there, I'm going to give it a go, you know what I mean?

49:02And we've seen a lot of good Kiwi coaches come and with varying degrees, you know, do well and I've also really been able to tell you what. Now, I've done some wonderful work, didn't you, but certainly in the in the test world as well. We've seen people take that challenge on, deans, reny, smith, some of the best coaches, you know, so, but what I, having a chat to some of the Queensland people is like, they're really pumped to have him on board and I think the, the reading of that was he's coming in and telling them, I think you have a team to win a comp here. This is what we need to build on top of what you've got. Yeah, like you guys have got some great skill, you've got some great eventually, you've got some blah, blah, blah. And what we just now need to build is that like mungle, yeah, that mungle dog. And I always think back to other warrioters, remember the warrioters when they won. That forward back was just a ruthless bunch of bastards. Yeah. But they also had an extremely skillful team. Yeah. So it's, you have to be everything.

50:07Yeah. And currently the Reds aren't everything and the bit that he's identified as missing is that, you know, that ruthlessness, that physical edge. Yeah. Yeah. It's a two in timidote teams to just to bash them essentially. Well, I mean, on paper, they've got a team that is more than capable of doing that, adding that to their game. Agreed. And I think, you know, they're not the leading Aussie team next year. Yeah, I'd be stunned. Given what we're seeing in the Wallabies now, like Josh Cannon is going to come back and be three times a player. Yeah. They've got Massimo now up there. You've just got a whole bunch of, you know, Isaac Henry. No hunters not going to be there. But you're going to have guys coming back to that environment. Yeah. Next year. Much, much better place. I forgot what I was going to say. Stern van. If something about Stern, something about. So I feel like Thornie kind of put it into this young group in the early days. He put in a

51:08real work ethic, a real grunt mentality and backed young guys. And his way was like, I'll show you, like he used to literally get in the gym and be like, I'll show you how to lift boys. This is how you train. And I think would even lace up the boots early days and train with them. Yeah. Certainly before he was head coach, he used to do that. Because remember, he made a comeback and played in our seat. He did. Yeah. I remember that. But it was something Thornie put in them and did a wonderful job. And he put pride and all that stuff into them and everything. But then Thornie's coaching only took him to a certain point and they played out a little bit. And they were talented and they could do certain things. But then they were looking for an extra, they needed an extra edge in turn of like tactical awareness and gameplay and skills and all that sort of stuff. And I think Lezz has come in and he's really fine tuned that and taking that to another level. And they kind of need to. Yeah. And emboldened the kind of the adventure. So it's adventure as well. And I think he's developed that really, really well, Lezz.

52:08So if you get a zone comes in and a successful re-instating that that edge, you got the complete package. Well, hopefully. Yeah. The big question mark, we'll finish up on the reds is the five eighths. So Tom Liner is back playing Super OBS. Yeah. And you've got Cutter Gordon there as well. Yeah. Glock and Phillips has gone to Perth. Volevoll is going to drew a. Drewer. Those two are injury prone. Yeah. We've seen that. And Finn McChye. Yep. The young weapon. Did his ACL recently. So he's looking unlikely to play in, you know, much of that Super OBS season, if any. So there is a bit of a question mark about who now comes up and kind of can provide even more cover for Tom Liner barely played. Did he play for going? No, he played 18 minutes. Yeah. One, one. You have to, you have to account for that. So I think there was a bit of, they were ruined the fact that they really like

53:10Jack Bowen and they kicked the tyres on Jack Bowen. They just didn't need him. Right. And then a few, he signs with Lezz stuff and a few weeks later because so it's a really, you know, lost opportunity there because Jack Bowen would have been perfect for them. I would have been in quite an interesting to see. And you know, now you've got to, you've got to find, you know, Bryce Higgity's running around in club 40 but I think he's going back to Japan. And he's just supposed to be going back to Japan. And you know, then, I mean, quite Cooper wants to get a start, but I can't see him getting back to the race. Just seen James O'Connor go back to where it all began at the force. It would be amazing if Quaid ended up back at the race. My early investigations on that is like, yeah, it's no flakes chance. Right. Really. But you know, things have changed, things have changed. There's also a bloke running out and he's not a 10, but I'm, and please excuse me if I overlook someone else glaringly obvious, but with no hunter, there's a little hole in the midfield. There's a bloke in Brisbane by the name of Sam Johnson,

54:11who is an absolute superstar for the Scottish rugby team. But it's as Australian as they come. Yeah, right. From Ipswich, went to San Eddie's, was that the Reds? Yeah. They weren't sold on him 10 years ago. He goes to Glasgow, kills it, becomes one of the first picks in his years. So he started this season at Jeeps. Yeah, but when did he last play test rugby? Is he coming? Oh, could he be what I'm saying is Kenny transfer his eligibility to how old is Sam? He's getting like, I'm sorry, getting on. He's probably early 30s. So he'd do a job, you reckon. I think he'd do a job. Yeah. But yeah, he started playing. I reckon he played because I don't think he went to the 23-wilk cup. Okay, don't quote me on that, but I don't think he did. Well, it's a three-year. Yeah, so I mean, he'd be on those points, isn't it? He might be eligible again. Well, let's breathe. Why not bring Samo home as well. While I'm doing hand signals, I think Samo's earning some pretty good yen, whereas Sam's like,

55:12I'm done with the rugby. He actually came back to Jeeps this year and he played the first couple of rounds. Yeah. And I think he got injured, but not really seriously, but it made him go like, I don't know if I can afford to get injured from trying to now raise a family and all that sort of stuff. What deal have you worked out with Samo for his contract to any of the... Just Jersey's. Just Jersey's man. Whatever, Jersey's. But on that note, again, he said they're injury prone. But if both Tom Liner and Carter Gordon are fit and firing, and hopefully they both are, and they both stand the paddock, all in mind, seeing a Tom Liner Carter Gordon 10-12. Yeah. Well, that would be tasty to me. I think Carter Gordon's got the makings of a very good 12. He does. We spoke about this last year and even a 15. And I had to be that guy, but those two fit at the same time on the same field. Man, we spoke about before living in a perpetrator state of optimism, right? I'm going to jump on the lotto and I reckon that'll happen first.

56:13Okay. Well, there you go. Speaking of bloke, who potentially aren't around to do their best work. Oh, good to see. Unfortunately. Malbag. Malbag. And we're going to keep this punchy because we've been waffling. The great Sam Bruce rugby scribe ESPN. Podcasts to sometimes when technology works. That's a bit unfair, isn't it? It's tough. Sammy Bruce has very appropriately posed the question. Has Tom Decent played more holes of golf than he has written words in 2026? You know the great Tom Diamond's decent very well. Yeah. As do I, but I feel like I never seen other than a picture from a golf course on Instagram. He's got an incredible, Tom has moved up to be Chief Sports writer for the Lord, which is a great, a great recognition of his talents. He's managed to work out a career where he just, he just tours. Yeah. Don't seem in the office at all. Ever. Just tours. And then I feel

57:14like we should call him. He collects up his Lodas, takes them, takes some holidays, then goes back on another tour. So yes, and mostly his Instagram account is, and is he any good? I've not played with him. What do you call him? Stories of stories of him on golf courses. Yeah, he's handy. Tom Decent was a first grade Krieger. He's told me. Yeah. It's got a first grade up. Tom Decent from the world. Sorry, I missed you a call. That's better to send me. Takes message. I'll go back to you as soon as possible. Tom, it's Michael and Ian from Inside Line Podcast just posing a question, which was put to us by Sam Bruce from ESPN. Has Tom Decent played more holes of golf than he has written words in 2026 if you could provide an answer in writing by the end of the day that I'd be much appreciated. Thank you. So, you're Tommy is getting all the golf he can in because he and Maddie are expecting

58:17the first child. So that's very strong. That's very strong. He's going back in the shed. Okay. And he's going to be a responsible father. Yeah. No, fair enough. Fair enough. But good question. So I think the answer is he has played more holes with golf than words written. I would say so. Yeah. Safe bet, Sammy. Question here from Alex Gordon. No, I'm going to need to say, won't play for Australia before mid-2027 as his club won't release him. That club being Panasonic Wild Nights who is playing within Japan. This was a report earlier in the week. Yeah. That's not quite right, Alex. Okay. These club would release him if if you know he's that that's during reign. So they they couldn't not block him. Mark. I think the decision for Mark to knock on that spring tour is more around the fact that yeah he will be transferring clubs. The season starts in mid-December is a high price recruit. I think he need his thinking as far as I'm aware is that he needs to get boots on the ground to his new club.

59:17Right. Get trance more. He's decision in the club blocking it. Exactly. Now the merits of that decision I'd question because I don't know whether we're going to get into it later but I feel like Cully wrote a good piece the other day talking about some of these league recruits. Mark kind of roughly falls into that. I'm going to be pushing it to make the World Cup squad as it stands. The outside backs are pretty deep in the wildies. Mark is obviously a freak that he won't have played rugby for a few years and you know if he's leaving it he won't be able to play in that Anzac-Tay game. Not that he'd be leaping people anyway. You know what I mean you're starting to just make it hard to prove yourself to the coach. That's why I kind of think if Mark is going to be a genuine chance to find the World Cup or make that World Cup squad he almost has to make the difficult decision that he needs to make himself available to prove to those kids what he's got even in a training environment and to show that he wants it because you don't want to make it easy

1:00:18for the coach to go you know what we just haven't seen enough of him just hasn't been committed. You know what I mean like because a guy like that could be an X-Factor player but listen World Cup squads are tiny I'll look and forget how you know like he's 33. But still you look at it generally people only carry like five outside backs you know so four wingers in a four back or three wingers in two four backs. So it's incredibly tight a squeezy way into that. Anzac-Tay play makes falls into the the same category. Anzac's got the benefit of playing under the nose as kids. Exactly and he's going to be playing in this comp he's going to probably go on the Australia A tour at the end of September. It won't surprise me at all to see him go on the spring tour. Yeah where again that's a look and see kind of thing. So yeah that's you know it's

1:01:19Mark's got a tough decision there. Do you reckon he knows in his back pocket if he doesn't because if he doesn't get picked for Australia at all. Yeah and any of those league up tests and then and then obviously if he doesn't get picked at all he's not going to be assuming he's not going to make the World Cup squad. He can then go or maybe I'll choose VG or Italy. He can he's eligible for both. Yeah it would surprise me because I don't think that like just because you don't make that squad he may play another six or seven years of rugby. That's true he's not coming in. And then you've cruel yourself to play for the Wallabies there after. And you know as good as he is VG squad is there no mugs either. You know that's right. So Italy up and down. But yeah. So yeah he can go Alex but he's that's that that would all just be a pretty standard reg 9c. So you're right paying insurance they have to do that. Well World Rugby cover

1:02:21insurance showing reg 9 periods up to a certain amount. Sometimes those guys who are in the shit loads think World Rugby cover up to a million bucks and then anyway if you're earning more than that then the host you need us to other the home union has to cover the difference. Yeah all right I can get time for one more yeah there were some excellent questions I'll reference Nick Abraham's David Harrison David Harrison used to coach me club rugby there you go we've ticked off a few of these ones Matt Davis I'm going to finish on conscript reports yeah underscore peep eight I don't know if that's someone's burner with the carry on between the sub so South African and all black coaches trying to influence officials in various subtle and unsuattled ways if you've paid any attention to the media in the wake of the second test has been a lot of like Dave Rene saying the scrum was wheeling around and Rassie going we're not yeah walking it around yeah very agitated very don't you don't often see Rassie that agitated do

1:03:23how much of an actual impact does that have on the humans who have to manage the 30 players over the 80 minutes i.e. the officials great question yeah I think sometimes it does no doubt about it yeah like whether it's subconscious or not like I'll I'll conscript asks could you share any human level anecdotes no names of course I don't have any names but well sorry I do have names but I don't think I'm betraying any trust I think back to the 2015 Rugby World Cup the lead up to the pool game between Australia and England a lot of media attention was on the scrum yeah and that was where England were going to obliterate us and check very deliberately made a point of Joe Marla boring in scrum scrum scrum scrum scrum and the first scrum of the night I remember sitting in the stands and it was right in front of me and remain what I think it was on the whistle bang full arm to Australia angling in against Joe and it set the tone for the entire

1:04:29yeah that felt clear and obvious that he had influenced the officials that's potentially why Joe has been chiming in with some salty salty tweets as well yeah but yeah you got to give props to Green and Gold rugby the old that's right because they're their campaign scrum scrum Joe and the spider game I've maybe given more too much credit to check and not enough to go well it got picked up it was just a good yeah but yeah you're right that's a good example of it's not necessarily that individual things said or done but if if topics are in the public eye for various reason they've been written about them being talked about and coaches are absolutely cany about this Eddie Jones I mean how David Penn broke working for him as a as a communications consultant you know forever basically on key messaging yeah key messaging about what to drop you know bits and pieces about you know things to drop into the public eye now yeah is there any

1:05:33you know proven kind of connective lines between one thing and the other probably not you know but you know the referees bosses tend to listen to this stuff you know if there's enough being said both publicly and then they also still have these kind of private meetings like we'd like you to look at this you're only human a referee has a billion things to look at yeah in a gamma rugby and there's no surprise that they only look at handful of things that sometimes that's because they've been tipped up yeah this coaches get get the shits with this because they're like they were tipped up to look at this yeah yeah yeah so you can backfire though too like it if you're really pointed in trying to highlight something and you do it the wrong way or it's perceived to be the wrong way you've gone about it the right way the wrong way the officials can I don't know if they I don't know if they do it out of spice but like it can back flip on you well you there's nothing sure that there'll be something happening with this walking around stuff now whether it actually gets explicitly like a penalty from it but there'll be instruction

1:06:39there'll be mentions of it blah blah so that it will it will have some effect yeah and by the way just last point on refereeing if you notice the caterpillar ruckus back isn't it right I thought we all I thought we'll pass that well it's obviously a due to catered differently the law is different at super rugby than test level but they're still saying play it don't they count I heard what's the name counting oh they still count but you rarely see them pull anyway up okay but so the difference obviously in super rugby was as soon as they say um play on yeah or play it no extra person can join that it's immediately a short arm they're giving a lot of time yeah there's nothing that international level there's nothing technically against because the caterpillar men are coming in and then they're saying play it yeah it's taken from anyway it is ridiculous please fix that please yeah and let's get rassy onto that yeah fair call um write some more words Tom Decent great work Peter yeah good job good job good time yeah tiger Dave Roberts here there you are surrounded by fans sharing wings sharing drinks

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