War, Israel, and Sovereignty | Guest: Tucker Carlson | 3/20/26

Hey, everybody. How's it going? Thanks for joining me this afternoon. I've got a great

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off today. Well, normally I would do a little monologue to introduce my guest, but I think

you guys might have heard of him Tucker Carlson. Thank you so much for coming on. Oh, I'm

honored to be here. Thank you. Of course, you just had Joe Kent on your show. Obviously

a lot is happening right now and Joe Kent is currently causing quite the firestorm given

our situation. Now, very interestingly, we've heard a lot about Joe Kent and how suddenly

he might be this crazy guy who has this conspiracy theory about Israel doing its own thing, going

its own way, having some level of influence on when we take certain war actions. This is,

of course, the most ridiculous thing anyone has ever heard, except yesterday President Trump

got on truth social and announced that Israel was bombing different gas fields with no allowance

from the United States, no knowledge of the United States. And he guaranteed that they would stop

and if there was any further retaliation from Iran, the United States would continue to retaliate.

Now, if I'm counting correctly, that's at least the second time that if Donald Trump in the

last year has taken to social media and literally begged the Israeli government to stop doing

something that they're doing, this seems like strange behavior from an ally and something that

bolsters a little bit what Joe Kent was saying. What's the reaction to this?

Well, I mean, there's so many things to say. Thank you for asking me. First, I would just say of

Joe Kent. On Tuesday, he was one of the top intelligence officials in the United States and the

US government ran the National Counterterrorism Center. So he's not like a lot of people commenting

on these questions. He has access to highest level intelligence. I mean, there's no legal bar to

him knowing anything that the US government knows. I mean, it's compartmentalized to some extent.

But he's a top US intel official. So he speaks with the authority of his office.

And so you can't just dismiss him as a nutcase and you can't

announce after he's revealed some of what he knows that he's actually a criminal. We just kind

of kept him in his position in the middle of a criminal investigation into his behavior. But he

retained his access to America's deepest, most important secrets. Any with none of it makes sense.

It's a political hit, of course. It's a PR hit. I'm not even sure there is an investigation.

The whole point of announcing at the end of the interview was to divert attention from what he

said during the interview. But what's interesting and what I want to say here is that last night,

where we did that live, so we're sitting where I'm sitting right now. And it's two hours long and

it's one of those interviews where both people want to be precise and not get over their

skis, not say anything they don't really know, not overstate anything, be precise. And so that's

like a quite a mental exercise. You finish that and you're like, oh, I'm so glad I don't think I

screwed up. He clearly felt that way. Also, we turn on our phones and both of us have like 15

texts, you know, criminal investigation to Joe Kent for leaking to Tucker Carlson. And I say,

are you seeing this? And he was, yep. And then he smiles, not bothered at all. So I've never been in

the presence of anybody when he finds out he's the subject of a federal criminal investigation by

the FBI. But it's like not an experience most people have. And I did get to see Joe Kent when he

learned that and the guy was not rattled at all. And that makes me think that this is a formidable

person to be lying about. And it's probably better just to engage with what he's saying, which is

true. And the core claim that he's making is that the United States followed Israel into this war.

And that's something the president has said repeatedly. That's something the Speaker of the House

said. And that's something that the Secretary of State who would know explained in some detail on

camera right after the war started. So we don't need to guess. The United States followed Israel

into this war. It's not an expression of hatred against Israel. It's not an expression of

anti-semitism. But it's a very unwise thing to do. And Chris Caldwell, Christopher Caldwell, my

friend, wrote today in a really smart piece, I think in American greatness. He said,

the difference between I'm paraphrasing between Israel's and the United States's war aims is that

Israel has them. I mean, there is no strategic goal from our perspective. It's at least

it's been articulated. I mean, first of all, lemonade. I mean, I can go through the litany of

them. But as Caldwell also says, having a lot of excuses does not necessarily amount to a good

excuse. I mean, there is no clear strategic goal here for the United States. Israel has one,

which is to destroy the Iranian nation state and to incapacitate it through chaos, to start a

civil war, the sectarian violence that last generation link to take a run off the map. Not to put

some pro is really liberal in charge. That's not going to happen. But just to create so much

misery in chaos that they don't need to be a factor in the Middle East. That is not consistent

with the goals of any other country in earth. Nobody wants that. It's neighbors don't want that.

It's regional enemies don't want that. Europe doesn't want that, which will of course bear

the crunch of the migrant crisis, the inevitable migrant crisis. The United States doesn't want it.

Asia doesn't want it because the entire world is dependent on the energy output of those seven

countries, the six Gulf monarchies in Iran. And so this is bad for everybody, but Israel. I mean,

just think about it. And this is becoming really clear as the war goes on because Israel is an

interest in extending it using American money and lives. And the United States, of course, it

doesn't. And so this was always going to happen when you yoke yourself to another nation that has

by definition divergent aims. There's going to come a point soon rather than later when there's

a difference of opinion. And once the killing starts, it's very difficult to reign in the other

side unless you have a great deal of will, which we haven't shown. And as Joe Kent said last night,

the purpose of the interview was to speak directly to the president and say there's a way out and

the way out begins with constraining Israel. And you could do that by just saying we're not going

to pay for your defense if you continue to use our money to go on offense in contradiction of our

interests. It's not complicated at all, but our domestic political condition, the funding of

our political campaigns makes it pretty hard to do that and no one's done it.

You know, this reminds me of Michael Anton's phrase, the celebration parallax,

where you can acknowledge the same set of facts. But if you're celebrating them,

then it's okay that you notice the facts. And if you're decrying them,

then it's not okay to notice the facts. He made this in reference to the great replacement,

but it seems to apply very much to Israel here where everyone is saying the same thing. Yes,

Israel dictated the tempo of this engagement. Maybe the US government was interested in this strike

at some point. Maybe it wasn't, but it was Israel's interest that ultimately moved us in this

direction. And the only question is not, did that happen? The question is, are you okay with that?

And if so, you're allowed to say it. And if you're not okay with it, then it's bad for you to notice

this. And that becomes a very difficult situation because as you say, we have very different interests

from Israel. And it explains a lot once Marco Rio comes out and says that because otherwise,

this war doesn't make a lot of sense. It pushes back against what Donald Trump ran upon what he

said many, many times over and over, not just himself, but many other members of the administration.

They seem to have nothing but neocon talking points to fall back on this. You would think if this

was something that a America first organization was putting forward administration was putting forward,

they would at least have changed the talking points. They'd have worked over how to say this,

how to pitch this war, what the selling points would be. But instead, we went directly back to

Iranians want democracy. And you only really do that if you don't have a plan if you weren't really

ready to move into this kind of situation. Well, there was notably little attempt to convince

anybody. And I appreciated that for one because I don't like being lied to or patronized.

I don't like being told things the person speaking knows aren't true. And that I know aren't true.

The whole exercise is demeaning. So I was glad the administration skipped that part of the

program and just did it and made some disjointed noises about why that didn't make any sense.

And then sent the Secretary of State, I'm pretty sure he was sent up to say that. I doubt he

freelanced that. To say no, we followed Israel because an attack by Israel and Iran would have

jeopardized our troops. Therefore, to protect our troops, we had to join Israel on this, that's what

we said, in the Congress on his way to a briefing. So I think they told us on purpose exactly why

this happened. I think the president realized very quickly after it commenced that there were no

obvious ways out that don't do an issue, American power. And that this was probably a mistake.

The question is why he did that and Joe Ken, I would recommend the interview I did with him last

night to anybody because it's just so interesting. It's a historical document, I would say.

And he explained the, in his view, the four possible reasons that the president changed his mind

on regime change forward with Iran. At this stage, I'm not sure how much that matter. I mean,

it will matter to historians and it will matter that we find out or think we find out in order that

we don't do it again, because the truth just matters inherently. But I think for right now,

considering it's ongoing and it's going to be hard to stop, it's worth considering what the

purpose of it is. And I do think the rest of us think too small. I'll speak for myself. I have a

history of thinking too small. And so I began the whole COVID thing, like on a very literal level,

like, well, how virulent is the virus? And, you know, like, what's the death rate? What are

effective treatments for it? Does the Vax actually work? Does it prevent infection and transmission?

I mean, I was thinking way too small. And now six years on, I'm beginning to wonder, like, what was

that? And how does it fit into a bunch of other apparently non-connected events that are hard to

explain, which would include the Ukraine war? And yes, at the root of all of it, the demographic

change, the unprecedentedly fast demographic change of the white world, mostly English speaking

not exclusively, but the Anglo world is disappearing. And that's not a theory, much less a conspiracy

theory. It's a provable fact you could go to Wikipedia and get the population numbers and you know

the answer. So that's happening. The question is, is it accidental? Is it organic? It's just one

of the things that happens, populations disappear in a hundred years. Or is it being forced? Is it

part of a strategy? To some end that we don't know that I personally don't know. But once you

understand that, that is the most important thing and the most profound thing, the biggest change

taking place in the world, I don't know, thousand years maybe more, certainly since the Mongol

invasions. Once you realize that, you have to ask, how does everything else I'm seeing all the

big trends, the big events fit into that if it does. And again, these are questions I can answer,

but these are not only legitimate questions, they're the only questions. And you have to think that

this war, because it is inexplicable on, you know, on the face of it, may fit into that. So what

you're seeing is a war, and this is something that people understood and told the president directly

to his face, this war inevitably was going to weaken the United States economically. It was

inevitably going to force the U.S. out of the Middle East, the force of the American Empire to

retreat from its core interests, not keeping its bases in South Korea and Japan open, but from

the Middle East, which is a core economic interest, because that's where the petrodollar originates.

And it was going to crush, it was going to destroy Europe. We blew up the Nord Stream pipeline,

this attack on the Katari gas fields, Katari shared Katari running in gas fields,

crushes Europe, where's the LNG come from? Gas can't flow through the pipeline anymore,

it comes by ship in a liquefied form called liquefied natural gas, and that comes from the Gulf

primarily Katari. That's off the table. So Europe is in free fall, and there's probably no way to stop

it at this point. So when you embark on any adventure like this with the known outcome that you're

going to hurt the United States and Europe, possibly just free ball in here, it's connected to the

very obvious larger agenda of reducing this specific population relative to world population.

And if you think that's a conspiracy theory, tell me how, because the numbers are noble, they're known.

So stop with that nonsense, stop yelling at me to discourage my noticing. These are facts.

Everyone knew they were facts, anyone who spent 10 minutes thinking about the likely downstream

effects of this conflict. And so what is this? A lot of people in the industry behind the scenes,

people who are very pro-Israel have said to me that they think that ultimately Donald Trump

went along with this war to constrain Israel, saying that basically Israel was willing to do

anything and everything to get rid of Iran. And if Donald Trump wasn't there to basically

mediate in participating in the conflict, the Israel would just kind of do whatever it wants.

And that's a theory that speaks to me, it makes sense. But ultimately, it doesn't seem that we're

having a lot of mediating effect when Israel is doing things without our approval. It doesn't

seem like this is an ally, a junior ally that has any interest in actually listening to the people

who are facilitating the very conflict that they are currently involved in. And therefore,

us being involved with it simply with the idea that we're going to restrain this power is not only

insulting to our sovereignty, but also doesn't seem to work. And as you noted there, a lot of people

are going to just say what you laid out there is a big conspiracy theory. And I've noticed that we're

suddenly hearing that podcasts are very dangerous. The most dangerous thing in the world, we have to

shut them down. I can't let the podcasters talk. They're destroying the conservative sphere.

And it's because of the conspiracy theories, like the ones you're hanging out there. However,

I've noticed in the last few weeks that the kind of anti podcasters, if you were, the very pro-war

Neocons who are now rooting for this, they love conspiracy theories. It came out right as soon as

Joe Kent made his announcement that actually, Joe Kent has been a subversive agent of Bernie Sanders

this entire time that his wife has corrupted him and turned him against the United States. And he's

now Manchurian candidate. And this is not, you know, we're both laughing at this, but very serious

people all simultaneously laid this out as with one voice as soon as this happened. I also noticed

that a lot of people speculated that Donald Trump used you as an intermediary with the Iranians

feeding you false information, knowing that you were working with the Iranians and you were used

to feed them false information to set this up. And again, this was repeated verbatim by very

serious actors immediately after this came out. Tucker Carlson, are you an agent of Iran?

Are you, were you feeding false information that Donald Trump filtered through you?

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I mean, I guess I would take issue with one adjective that you use. Anyone who would say that,

repeat that, whether he believes it or not is by definition not a serious actor,

just consider on the literal level what they're claiming. After months of saying that I'm in the

employee of the Qatari government, now they're saying I'm working for the Iranian government,

the enemies of the Qatari government. So it was the Iranians who also bombed the Qatari gas fields.

The energy of a structure and Qatar. So you can, it's like what side of the world do you think I'm

on? And of course, I'm on the American side and have always been. And you know, these charges

always level with people with very tenuous connections to the United States and no demonstrated

loyalty and often dual citizenship. And you know, I may be wrong, have been wrong many times,

expect to be unfortunately again in the future. But I don't think, I mean, from my perspective,

as someone who has only one passport who lives across from his parents' graves, like I, it's,

it's like level of real criticism at me, level something plausible. But all of this is just like

the same kind of attack. Whatever they are guilty of, they accuse you of, which is one of the reasons

always accusing me of taking money. And for all my many faults, and I definitely have them,

I think they're probably pretty obvious. I could go through it. But I've never been a money guy.

I just have never been. Not many sins. Greed is not one of them. But these are the greediest people.

These are people who literally negotiate deals while simultaneously negotiating settlements to wars

that are going to get America's kills. So these are people who worship money, who are literally

money worshipers, accusing me of taking money. And by the way, that's a great thing to be accused

of because it's like, it's provable. And that's like one thing I haven't done, probably have done

some bad things. That's not one of them. And so like, that's just a, you know, you're, I'm going to

be indicted for taking money. Well, okay, haven't taken one dollar ever ever for, I don't even have a

bank loan. I don't even have a mortgage. Like, that's how paranoid. That's how much I dislike

money lending. It's how much I don't want to be controlled by anybody ever other than my wife and

God. And so it's just, I don't pay any attention to that. What bothers me, though, at this point,

now that there's a war ongoing, is like, where's the serious discussion from serious people, including

people who disagree with me, including people who think Israel is a reliable ally and the beacon of

democracy in the Middle East, despite the rape campaign going on in the West Bank, whatever,

you can have that view. And I think there are good people who do that view. But where's the debate

over what's best for the US, even if you believe that ally, you know, Israel's a real ally,

as we proceed, there's like zero debate on the subject. And that makes you kind of wonder about

motive here. Another way of saying it is the second this war broke out, and I, and I've said it,

I mean, I went to Washington three times in the preceding month to talk to Trump directly and ask

him not to do it and explain what I thought would happen. Not a genius. It's like very obvious

downstream consequences, potentially likely. They've come true. You get back, he does it.

I feel like my wife actually made fun of me. Well, I guess you're not very good at convincing people.

True. So I guess the people who wanted the war one within like 24 hours, they were spending all

their time not celebrating the deaths of their enemies, but calling for the destruction of their

domestic enemies who opposed them. So they won, but they're still angry. In fact, their anger

has increased. And they have spent the next three weeks calling for like me to go to jail,

and now joke, can't to go to joke, jail really. It's, it's, it's deranged, but it's also really,

really revealing because the enemy is not the Iatola. Of course, the enemy is white Christians

in the West in Europe, here, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. That's the actual enemy. And we know

that's the enemy because those the people are disappearing. Those the people are disappearing as

a consequence of the policy decisions these same people advocate for. So the war in Ukraine,

the war in Ukraine has been over four years, Russia won. But Ukraine is continuing to destroy

pointlessly, totally, totally destroy the lives of Ukrainians, of its own citizens, because the

United States was funding this war. And then Trump comes in and we're not funding it quite as

aggressively as we were, we're still funding it, no matter what anyone tells you. But we're not

paying for everything anymore. Well, now Europe is. And Europe has been convinced its leadership

decided, well, we're, you know, standing up against Putin is the most important thing because

Putin is the greatest threat. It's not our mismanagement or Merkel's decision to let, you know,

all of Syria into Europe. No, no, no, the real problem is Putin. And so we're going to fight

Putin, physically fight like we're going to send men to go die. But we can only send native

foreign Germans to go die because we can't really trust some of those immigrants with arms.

So the net effect of this policy is to get still more actual Europeans killed. Now you can scream

whatever name you wanted me, white supremacist. I'm not a white supremacist, but was I would just say so.

You can scream conspiracy theory. Okay, where's the conspiracy? These are facts. So if every policy

decision that you make or advocate for has the same net fact, a reduction in Christians and

whites, maybe the point of the system is its result. And if you disagree with me, tell me how?

I am somebody who's only been doing this for a few years. Obviously, this has been your whole

career, but it's, it's only been about three years for me. And before that, I was just teaching

public school. And my journey has been one of a very average talk radio listener. I was listening

to Dennis Prager and Michael Medved and, you know, Neil Bortz and these kind of people. And that was

my understanding of the world. And really, it was Donald Trump in his first campaign for President

where he mocked Jeb Bush and Ted Cruz on stage and said, you know, no, these foreign adventures

have been a disaster. And that was the first time where I was encouraged to go back and read

guys like Pat Buchanan and quickly started to discover that actually this has been an ongoing

problem not for the last 10 years or 20 years, but for many, many decades and that there has been

a long string of right wing thought pointing this out. But guys like Russell Kirk and Paul Godbreed

and Pat Buchanan and others have been removed from the Republican parties. And for some reason,

it always seems to be our intellectuals first to on the right. That's why the right seems so

devoid of intellectuals. They all seem to get, you know, kind of sent away for noticing the same

problem that the real enemy is here. It's inside the gates. And that's what Donald Trump said. He

said the deep state is the problem. The establishment is the problem. The parties are the problem.

But that is the issue. And we need to stop going abroad. We need to stop spending all of our time

fighting foreign enemies, thinking that these people have been ginned up as the greatest threat to

us are the issue. We need to turn back internally and face this. And I think after his first term,

that became more apparent than ever. The fact that Trump was essentially couped out of office.

And then Biden was couped out of office. How many coups in a row can you have of the sitting

president before you start to notice where the issues are? And yet here we are again. We just

have a request for $200 billion for our new war effort, which we aren't even calling a war.

And I start to feel like maybe I've gone crazy. Everyone's telling me, no, just line up and get

behind this. And I still support Donald Trump because he's the best president we have on things

like immigration. We simply would not have a closed border. The J6ers would not have been

given a pardon because of what had happened. People are alive today because of Donald Trump.

And I'm grateful for that. But I'm also not a zombie. I'm not going to pretend I didn't notice what

just happened. I'm not going to pretend that, you know, Ben Shapiro and Mark Levin who were

never Trump from the beginning suddenly becoming the greatest champions of Donald Trump isn't a

weird switch. And the fact that everyone is suddenly screaming at me for this tells me, yeah,

I think the real enemy is still here at home.

Yes. And I would say the discrepancy between what our leaders care about and what their people need

is so vast at this point that we say, and with a heavy heart, we're reaching a pre-revolutionary

moment where it's just this isn't working for too many people. It's not just Republicans or

White Christians for that matter. It's like everybody. And if you're allocating too, if that much

money at a moment where you can't use the commercial airlines right now, right? I mean, I've got,

it's not about me, of course, but I mean, for example, I have to go to a family event that I cannot

skip tomorrow. I have to go. Okay. And I'm not trying to get there. Why? Because there are some kind

of TSA strike underway where people are waiting, it was six hours to get on an airplane or spending

night at an airport because TSA, which was only created after 9-11, which are not allowed to

understand because there are millions of 9-11 documents to classify 25 years later. You're not

really allowed to know what that is. Shut up conspiracy theorist, but it was created in its aftermath.

And there's no evidence. It's protected anyone. It's constrained people's behavior limited their

freedoms and harassed them, belittled them. TSA doesn't work. So you can't like fly an airplane. Now,

in a normal country, that would be priority number one. Okay. There's a continental country.

It's huge. And we've been encouraged to, as Ben Shapiro has often encouraged us, if there's

not a great job where you live, move somewhere else. It doesn't matter if you're from there,

just move to the city and live in an apartment and rent it. No need to own anything. Like this is

we've been told to do this. So nobody lives, they're loved ones. Nobody lives where they're from

by and large anymore. You have to live in a metropolitan area with like no clean water in order to

make a living. So that's where we are. And we can do that because we rely on our internal

transportation system, which just doesn't work anymore. And in the face of that, that's an actual

crisis. That's a real crisis. We're sending money because we haven't killed enough of Iran's

leadership because we need to do what? At which point we win? What? And how will we know? Like,

the whole thing is so deranged. And because there's no overlay of like ideological justification,

you can feel good about. We're not fighting for freedom. The whole point that we're liberating

the Iranian people from their captors kind of fell apart. We blew up a girl school and didn't

apologize for it. And we're still hitting civilian infrastructure. And the local police,

why are we hitting the local police? Are we fighting the police in the city of Tehran,

one of the biggest cities in the world? I don't think we are. So like, none of this makes any sense.

There's no justification for it. I know that there's like, we're in a sugar high right now,

but like very soon people will be like $8 gasoline. No. And there's still there's sending money

heedlessly to achieve goals that have never been articulated. We may not even know what they are.

And that money could go to like make it possible to fly to see your kids. But no,

you know, it's out of moments like that that like things go crazy internally. And I do think

that's part of part of the purpose actually is to degrade Americans to make their life

unacceptable here to make them radical to make them hate each other just what this country apart.

I mean, the amount of times the neocons spend, not trying to topple some foreign government,

they get way too much credit for that with what the real agenda is, of course,

is to divide Americans against each other, right? To destroy, for example, the Trump coalition,

which they achieved in a very short time, who thought that was possible is a big, the broadest

coalition of my lifetime, the most I hate to use the term, but diverse coalition, including lots

of former Democrats, a whole range of interests. And they completely blew it up. It's gone. Who did

that? It wasn't the maha people who did that was the neocons who did that. They did it on purpose.

And like, why would you want that? Well, you only divide people for one purpose and that's to

control them. That's not a good reason. So I'm just, I guess the only thing I would say bottom

line is like, I don't know what's going to happen. Don't feel like it's good. But as you watch

what's happening, just remember, it's part of something larger that implicates you. So we should

know that and don't get, you know, spending all day on X is like interesting and informative,

but it's also constraining you sort of miss the bigger things. And this is a big thing.

He's a very big thing that's happening right now, I think. Yeah, I think it's been very clear

that they're attempting to manufacture a particular understanding of the situation. We have a moment

like Charlie Kirk's death. And in that moment, I don't think most people understood how critical

Charlie Kirk was. How much he was holding this entire coalition together. And he knew, of course,

that you needed those maha people, you needed those young people, you need those non-traditional

Trump voters that come in. But all of a sudden, the only polls that anyone is referring to

are like polls of Fox News viewers over 70. Like you need a pocket catheter to respond to any given

that's not what those polls are. No, I think aren't I think you're fundamentally just reading them.

Those are polls of MAGA. So what is MAGA? Well, MAGA by definition is not America first. It's not

an ideological category. It's a description of people who love everything Donald Trump does.

And support it, uncritically. So if that's your polling set, if you're polling people

who agree with everything Donald Trump does on the question, do you agree with what he just did?

You are by definition getting to 100% in fact, anyone who disagrees with the war has to be removed

from the sample set because they've invalidated their membership in it by disagreeing with Trump.

So it's like this incredible feat of sophistry that I just have to stand back and like admire

as a word guy. I'm like, I cannot believe you set up a poll that could arrive at no other conclusion,

but the one you arrived at. It had to be 100%. MAGA is people who agree with everything Trump does.

And then we're polling us tonight. People who agree with everything Trump does.

Mr. Member of that group, do you agree with what Trump does? Oh, yeah. It's like amazing.

And people are like, oh my gosh, it's 100%. They're all zombies. Well, if you only pull the zombies,

your poll reflects what zombies think. Yeah, as a guy who used to pull apart polls as a

a local reporter, I noticed that the abstract of every poll tells you the conclusion, but the minute

you get to methodology pretty much across the board, they're all complete bunk and it's all just

spin. It's just lucky. It's like, what is MAGA? I mean, like it'd be like saying, I'm going to

pull black people on what percentage of them are black. Right. That's probably pretty high percentage.

I would think if you're pulling black people up on their black, you're pulling people who always

agree with Trump, but whether they agree with Trump, I mean, it's like, it's literally meaningless.

And because I think people spend way too much time online and not enough time in fresh air

with dogs, like they can't, they can't think outside these like super tight constraints. And they're like,

oh, MAGA is 100% on board. Well, yeah, dude, by definition, like what do you, how about a poll of

people who voted for Donald Trump in 2024? Like, that would be the starting sample that I,

the set that I would use. People just voted for them a little over a year ago. What do you think

of this? Is this what you voted for? And I think we're getting to less than a hundred at that

point. I'm just guessing. So I've noticed that when the left was in power and they were worried

about the power of podcasters, it was key to talk about disinformation and guilt by association

and then we needed more adults in the room. This was the general panic narrative that we got out

of the left, especially after Donald Trump's win. I mean, they went so far as to say we need to

create a new Joe Rogan, which was particularly hilarious because Joe Rogan was their Joe Rogan before

they made him not not their Joe Rogan. But one of the key ways that they have tried to discredit

the podcast sphere and its disintermediation of the information network is this idea that everyone

is basically Nick Fuentes or Candace Owens. And everyone who has any level of skepticism towards

the current war or our relationship with Israel, anybody who might have read George Washington's

address or read a Pat Buchanan book and say, hey, maybe there's some truth to that. Those people

are basically Nick Fuentes. And this has been the tactic over and over again, which seems to

me are almost exactly the left's tactic. In fact, they even come up with a term called the

woke right for this idea, which is particularly hilarious because they're using every single tactic

that the woke used during the great cancellations of the woke revolution. It just seems to be a

tactic that people empower you to throw disreputation on people. And I'm wondering, is there any way to

break out of this cycle? Because a lot of this happens because you talk to these people, you

interview these people. But I also interview people that I don't agree with. I interviewed Alexander

Dugan several times. I don't agree with him that America is the great Satan that needs to be

destroyed. And I've made it very clear. But for some reason, having dialogue with people and trying

to understand the position is itself so dangerous that you have to be banned from the airwaves,

or maybe thrown in prison. Yeah, I mean, there are many things going on here. I mean, as to the

answer, the answer is pretty clear, at least in the way you approach it, tell the truth and don't

become a hater. Pray for your enemies every day. I think there's nothing more important right now,

especially since people's behavior has become so radical and violent and irrational that it's very

easy as you watch it to become what they call you and to become what they are, which is a hater.

And that destroys your soul. People can smell it. It's bad for you. It's bad for the country. Don't

become a hater. And Christians are required to pray for their enemies. And that means they're

actual enemies. People who are trying to persecute you. That's what it says. So every day in your prayers,

if you say the word is prayer, what you should, you know, you're reminded that your forgiveness is

predicated on your forgiveness of others. It's conditional. You have to forgive other people. And

you should always begin by praying for your enemies. Like if you don't like Mark Levin, say a prayer

every day for Mark Levin. And I mean it too. Like that is the big, you know, personal liberation is

the beginning of corporate liberation. And if you want to liberate a country, liberate its people

and that liberation begins internally. And it's liberation from hate and from lying. Those are the

two main oppressors. So and we're all subject to them and we've all engaged in them. I certainly have.

But you need to get free of that and you get free of it through prayer. That's like the first place

you do. Please help this person who wants to put me in jail. And so that's where you start.

Then by telling the truth, not simply about other people, but primarily about yourself,

very easy to tell the truth. You know, your fat is really easy to say, I'm fat, very hard to say.

So start with I'm fat. I think that is like super important to tell the truth about yourself to

take the log out of your own eye. And once you do that, then you can kind of see things clearly.

Then you're not afraid. By the way, when you are praying for the people who are persecuting you,

it works. And you become less hateful. And you can see things more clearly hate and lost.

And any strong emotion clouds our vision. When I had reporters working for me, I'd always say,

you can't cover someone you hate. You can't cover someone you're sleeping with for the same reason.

Because you can't see the person clearly. You can't be honest. So you can you get clarity on it.

And then you're free to tell the truth because there's no hate in your heart and you know it.

So like if you really were an anti-Semite, like a true, you know, you really hated Jews because

they were Jewish, you'd be a little hesitant to say something like Israel dragged us into the work

which they did because you'd be like, oh my gosh, hope nobody finds out I hate the Jews.

But if you free your heart from that, then you can be completely honest. And people can feel they know,

they know everything about you. Just like dogs do. They can smell it. If you're operating in the

basis of some diseased motive, people may not know exactly what it is, but they know it's there.

If you're lying, people can tell they know Joe Ken's not lying. They just know like is Joe Ken

lying? Don't think so. Nothing you can tell me is going to convince me Joe Ken's lying because

I know Joe Kent. I watch Joe Kent. And I know what he's saying is true. So tell the truth

for yourself from hatred and dishonesty. And that wins. And and less single say, which is a

repetition, what I said before, see this in context. The whole world is changing. This is not a

regional dispute over nuclear capacity or enrichment levels. I mean, stop.

Any more than Black Lives Matter was about, you know, a guy who died in police custody in Minneapolis.

Like, no, that's not what it was about. I'm not that dumb. I'm kind of dumb, not that dumb.

This is not about what they say it's about. This is a reset of the global order and America's place

in it and our economy. And it's about populations. It's about people. It's about demographics.

It's about race and religion. Sorry, I wish it wasn't. I wish it was a regional conflict of like

oil or nuclear weapons or something. But no, that's not what it is. And you're never going to get me

to pretend that's what it is because it's not true. Guys, I should have mentioned this at the top,

but we're not live today. This is pre-recorded. So unfortunately, we won't be able to answer your

questions like normal. But Tucker, you've mentioned several times the great replacement and the idea

that many nations seem to be pushing towards the elimination of European peoples in their diaspora.

And this is really important because you were probably the first person on major television shows

to make it okay to say the phrase anti-white. I actually distinctly remember back when I was

a teacher, you bullying my now colleague, Chris Ruffo, in the saying the word anti-right white

live on there. But you know, Chris has obviously done great work on that but just was hesitant to

use that term at the time. And now he does because it's just too obvious. It's just everywhere. Nobody

can really deny it at this point. But the continued conversation about the race replacement,

I think, is really important. But a lot of people who have heard you speak and I'll be honest at

times, I have felt the same way. Have heard you speak about Islam in a manner which seems like it

might be okay if Islam became a major religion in the United States, if it became something that was

a common feature in the West. And just looking at what's happening in Europe and increasingly in

the United States, it's very clear that perhaps Islamic populations, if they are not the hammer,

at the very least they seem to be the anvil of breaking Western civilization. And personally,

well, I think it's fantastic, you know, as you say, we should not hate people and I'm more than

happy for Muslims to live in their lands and peace and security and and have prosperous lives.

I just don't want them in the West. I think that they're incompatible with Christian religion

and civilization. And I'm seeing the evidence of this sprouting up in places like Texas where we're

building record number of mosques, this kind of thing. And I think a lot of people would just like

to hear ultimately that this is something that is not a long-term expectation in the West.

That it's okay if we deport Muslims that should not be here and we ban Muslim immigration while

still understanding that we don't need to make them our eternal enemies abroad.

Yeah, I mean, I'm for preserving the demographic mix of America from 1969 and the era was born.

Okay? Demographic racial mix linguistic religious. So that was an amazing country I was born into,

still amazing, much less amazing because of demographic changes. So I don't know if I could

be clear about that. The reason that I often make that point and I know that it's, I mean,

basically the hatred of Muslims, Muslims, whatever that means is that's like the main

effect of 9-11. Now what was 9-11? Well, we don't know because the US government won't declassify

documents that are 25 years old. So we're kind of guessing, right? But about what that actually was,

but I know the effect of it, it had two effects. One was to scare the crap out of everyone in

the United States about Islam as a religion. I certainly felt that way. And two was to dramatically

increase Muslim immigration into the United States. And that was embedded by the very same people

who were pushing all these Middle Eastern wars. So I guess I just note something very obvious

which is we're getting played, okay? Islam may be the anvil. It's definitely not the hammer.

Okay, that's the fact. Same in Europe. Who pushed for massive Islamic immigration into Europe and

Scandinavia, the Nordic countries. It wasn't the popular. It was the same people who have banned

any criticism of what's happening in Gaza. So, okay, that's the first thing I would note. Second

thing I would note is that radical Islam, and I spent many years traveling, 25 years traveling

in the Middle East, almost every country in the Middle East, and a lot of time there. And radical

Islam has declined as a political force. And I'm glad. I'm really grateful. Radicalism was a real

force in Europe. But in the actual Middle East, maybe because all the crazies moved to Europe,

I don't know, but it's a fact. And there has been a concurrent rise in religious extremism,

in political religious expression, and it's among Jews, and it's among evangelical Christians.

And the millennialist vision, this kind of marrying your eschatology to your politics,

that is a phenomenon. Still, it's a super dangerous phenomenon. But that's going on among evangelical

Christians, a minority of evangelical Christians, and a minority of Jews. But that's where religious

radicalism is rising. I know this because I live here in a travel lot. So, there's something

attacking anybody. It's in the third thing is that there is clearly an effort to ferment religious

conflict in the United States. And having seen religious conflict and traveled to sites of

religious conflict and watched its generational effects, I don't want that here. So, I don't want

anyone to come here. Trump has not shut down immigration into this country. In fact, it's accelerated

in ways that are really destructive, which is to say through legal means, H1B's, refugee

resettlement. That's still ongoing. That has not stopped. In other words, the demographic change

of the United States is still proceeding a pace. And if you tell yourself, well, they shut down the

horse, they did. And God bless Trump for doing that. But that doesn't mean that the replacement

of the population of the United States has stopped. No, it's accelerated. So legally. So,

into that mix, if you throw encouragement to hate people on the basis of their religion,

not their behavior, but their religion, you're going to destroy the country that my grandchildren,

I hope will inherit. And who is doing that? Well, it's the same people pushing for the war

with Iran, a war that has no conceivable benefit to the United States. So, I'm not, by the way,

a champion of Islam at all. I'm a Christian, more so than ever. And I mean it in a more heartfelt

way than ever, which, and by Christian, I mean pro-Jesus. Okay, pro-Jesus. Mike Huckabee doesn't talk

a lot about Jesus because he's not allowed to or something. But I believe in Jesus and his example,

and I believe that Jesus is the only way to God. So, obviously, I'm not a Muslim, but definition,

I'm not. But I don't want religious conflict here. And these people, a lot of, not, these,

some people are pushing for it. And if you ask people, I was with an evangelical minister recently,

who I like, who I think is smart. And I said, like, why are you defending mass murder in Gaza?

Like, why would you defend that? Is this what Jesus would want? And I haven't even been that

involved in commenting on the Gaza thing. But like, it's just so obvious that that's not,

no Christian can support that. And he goes, well, I get it. But in the end, we have the same

enemies. I said, who are your enemies? Islam. I was like, well, they're killing a lot of

Christians actually. And there are Christians in Gaza. They're being killed too. But more over is,

I mean, like, what? Just be, okay, I get it. I don't want this to be an Islamic country at all.

I'm not working for an Islamic country. I love America period. But listen to yourself.

And he couldn't because he had been worked into this frenzy about mosques and Texas

as a way to cement his loyalty to a foreign country. And it's gotten to a point where he refuses

to criticize their massacre of children. So that's kind of what's going on. And all I'm trying to

do is tell people, that's what's going on. Okay. I'm sorry. If you don't like to hear it,

you're being manipulated. I worked at Fox News for 15 years. I have some sense of what's going on

in the propaganda space. Okay. And that's what's going on. So what they're doing as they always do,

which is, and by day, I mean, the enemies of God, of decency, of truth, of kindness toward others,

of love, what they're doing is leveraging your best instincts against you always. Your instinct

toward hospitality has been leveraged in order to get you to support or stop complaining about

open borders. Your view that God's love is universal has been leveraged against you so you can't

kind of like say anything about the replacement of your ethnic group because, hey, God loves

everybody. True. But this is really dark. You can't say that. Your care for other people is

leveraged against you in the vaccination campaign of 2021 and 2022 was like, don't you care about

your grandparents? You have to take the shot, which will potentially kill your children,

but don't you care? So this is what evil does. It takes your best instincts and uses them

against you. That girl's so pretty. I really like girls are so nice. That's all good. I love

beauty. I love kindness. But if you don't restrain yourself, you're trying to jump her.

You see what I'm saying? So your best instincts can very easily evolve into sin and hours half.

And this is another example of it. And just wake up, man. I'm not picking you, but like wake up

and see the level of manipulation of American society as someone who worked in the media,

the mainstream media for 35 years, I can tell you. That's real.

No, and of course, I think a lot of that is true. I think that the Bush administration

after 9-11, doubling basically the number of Muslims in the country is just treason. There's

no other way to explain it. It's just. You can add their war killed almost the or displaced almost

the entire Christian population of Iraq millions of people. And then the war in Syria displaced the

ancient Christian community. The war now in Lebanon is making it a non-Christian country. It was a

Christian country. It has a Christian leader. It's an Arab country with a Christian leader.

Where are all these evangelicals who like are so upset about Muslims and love Christians?

What are they saying about what's happening in Lebanon right now? The one Christian country

in the entire Middle East, and it's being destroyed by Israel, and they're not saying one word.

What God are they worshipping? It's not the Christian God.

Well, as a evangelical, I grew up Southern Baptist. I read all the left behind books,

you know, the dispensationalist understanding was there, but it was never something I heard a lot

of from behind the pulpit. I actually heard more of it from talk radio than I actually did from

from the church itself. But I think this is something that's fundamentally shifting. You know,

I'm noticing that pretty much even in the evangelical world, nobody under 40 believes this. In fact,

increasingly no one under 50 really believes this anymore. So I think that's a problem that's

going to resolve itself with time. I think people have to give Christians some time to turn that

chip a little bit to make that happen. I guess just in the meantime, I think it's fair to say,

you know, as someone who's worried about the replacement of my ethnic group, that means that I

probably don't want a lot of people from the Middle East moving into the United States. And it's okay

to say that. And particularly from the most dysfunctional countries in Africa, and nobody wants

to say that because no one's ever been to Africa except in Safari. I like Africans actually always have

been to Africa a number of times, various parts of it. And I like Africans, but that's a dysfunctional

society. Like truly, there's nothing in the Middle East that compares to anything in Sub-Saharan

Africa. I've been to both. So no one will ever voice that concern. And instead, again, their

righteous concerns about demographic change or being leveraged by people who actually don't

other best interests in mind to steer them in a politically useful direction. And I guess I would

just take this opportunity really quick to say the marriage of religion and religion to politics

inevitably degrades, hollows out, and renders totally powerless, the religion, and it only

empowers the politics and the politicians and the unscrupulous people who do it. So like

Jesus, when he enters Jerusalem, doesn't do so on a stallion, but on a donkey. And it's so

obvious that that's why they put palm leaves down because this was the liberation that they were

expecting. But they got a deeper liberation, an internal liberation, the only one that matters.

He's being, he's being grilled at the end of John by, you know, by the court, the Pharisees,

and the Sadducees, and they're like, you know, are you the king? Maybe Piotr to ask him, and he

goes, my kingdom is not here. It's in heaven. And look, we need to remember that, you know,

political change is important. It's important for Christians, but it's not the point of the exercise,

the point of the exercise is to get to heaven. And so anybody who tells you that the real goal is

temporal is like trying to subvert you in these preachers. I'm just shocked by their behavior.

I was shocked when they took money to push the poison backs on the population. I'm shocked by the

uses to which they put their congregations in the service of a foreign country. I'm shocked by

so much. Some of them are endorsing this war. Franklin Graham endorsing this war,

ours is a god of war. What god is this? Is that the Christian god? I'm not a theologian.

I just read the New Testament every day. What are you even talking about? This is a god of war.

God wants this. Tell me how. I mean, I just think it's so wrong for Christian leaders to talk

like that. How about we don't know? That'd be fine with that. But to get up there and be like,

no, no, no, this is God's war. Dude, you don't know what you're playing with. These are all people

who don't know anything anyway. So they don't understand the consequences of that kind of talk. We

kill their religious leader and say we're doing this in the name of ours. Good luck to your grand

kids, pal. Well, I think a big theme of this has been perhaps though that spirituality has returned

in a very serious way in politics. Some people have used the phrase return of the old gods. And I

think that's probably a good way to phrase it. Whether we like it or not, it feels like spiritual

forces are on the move. And I know a lot of people get weird when you say this, but I think it's

critical. I don't think we can really analyze our time without recognizing that we're moving from

a moment that was dominated by the material to one that is absolutely dominated by the spiritual

across everything, including in politics. So how do we know the difference? Because we're promised

deception and it's evident. It's everywhere. But we're promised that as things accelerate,

there will be more deception. Wars and rumors or wars are followed by deceptions. So how do you

know what the deception is? How do you know? It can't just be did we vote for the same person? Do

you support BB? Do you like this war? It's got to be more fundamental in that because I do think I

know for a fact that a lot of really good people better than me support things that I hate. We

disagree. So how do you know? And one of the markers has to be honesty. That's got to be one of the

core markers. People who are following the actual God of the universe are honest and transparent.

They're not defensive. Why would they be defensive? They're not hiding anything. If you are hiding

what you think, if you are hiding what you're doing, if you're hiding what you intend to do,

then that's not a sign that you're following God. Honesty is a sign of that. So if I ask you like

what is this? And you yell at me and call me names without answering the question, that's not a

good sign. I think that's one way to know. It can't just be who did you vote for in the last election

or what do you think of Israel or what do you think of the Iran War? It has to be what are you

like? Are you conducting your life transparently and honestly? I think ours is a God of honesty.

Like if we can't agree on that, then we're just practicing different religions.

Well Tucker, it's been fantastic to talk to you. I thank you so much for coming on. And of course,

I hope ultimately that when people are evaluating the circumstances that we're in,

when they're trying to figure out who to listen to, you know, is it is it joking? Is the

others people what what is their veracity? Ultimately, as you say, I think prayer and discernment is

the only way to move forward in this in this moment of a completely fractured media environment where

everyone is telling lies. I think that getting right with God and truly seeking his wisdom is the

only way to navigate this in the end. Amen. Amen. Orn. Thank you. Thank you so much. All right guys,

if it's your first time on this YouTube channel, please go ahead and subscribe. And if you'd like to

get broadcasts from your McIntyre Shore show, make sure that you are joining us on the podcast as

well. Thank you everybody. And once again, I'll talk to you next time.