Warning Signs Of An Abusive Therapist: What To Look For

Is therapy causing you to feel worse? Do you keep going, thinking maybe the next session will be the breakthrough? Here are the warning signs of an abusive therapist every woman needs to be aware of.

Amy Nordhues, a victim of an abusive therapist, and author of Prayed Upon, joined Anne Blythe, M.Ed. on The FREE Betrayal Trauma Recovery Podcast to talk about the warning signs of an abusive therapist.

If you relate and need support, attend a Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group Session TODAY.

Transcript: Warning Signs Of An Abusive Therapist: What To Look For

Anne: Amy Nordhues is on the podcast today. She’s a survivor of both childhood sex abuse and abuse as an adult at the hands of a mental health professional. She is a passionate follower of Christ and expert on the healing God provides. She has a B.A. in psychology and minors in sociology and criminology.

Her devotions are in the Secret Place devotional series. Her memoir, Prayed Upon, won the Inspire Christian Writers Great Openings Contest for nonfiction and the Next Generation Indie Award for inspirational nonfiction. As a married mother of three, she enjoys spending time with family, writing, reading, photography, and all things comedy.

We will talk about warning signs of an abusive therapist today. Welcome, Amy.

Amy: Hi, it’s so good to be here.

Anne: We have comedy in common.

When I first learned about my husband’s lying and deceit. I actually started writing comedy to deal with it, like to process it. So I wrote a comedy blog for a few years that wasn’t showing what was actually happening. When my book comes out, I will actually publish that comedy blog in book form simultaneously. So that you can see what was happening.

Amy: Oh, interesting.

Anne: I think a lot of comedians use jokes to deal with their trauma.

Amy: Yes.

Anne: So maybe we’ll make a few abuse jokes today.

Amy: Yeah.

Anne: Oh, wow, don’t worry. My audience, my audience gets it because they’re all abuse victims.

The Pastor’s Wife’s Suggested This Therapist

Anne: So let’s start with your story.

Amy: Yeah, I started attending Celebrate Recovery. I wanted to work on issues from past abuse and a disconnected marriage. I had depression and anxiety. And when I was in that program, the pastor’s wife became my mentor, and at some point she recommended I see this therapist.

He was also a psychiatrist, which was good because he can manage my medications. He was an elder at the church where the Celebrate Recovery was hosted. I had just started attending there. So it seemed to line up perfectly. So I started to see him, and he was an odd character, more like a bumbling grandpa.

Very Christian, wore a cross necklace, sweet, kind of goofy, and right away he played a father figure role. He learned that was something I didn’t have. So he played into that, and at first it seemed like an answer to prayer. It seemed like my depression was lifting. I started to see I guess you could say red flags in this relationship.

Anne: At the time, what was your thought process? Did you know they were red flags? Would you define them that way? Can you talk about your thought process?

Amy: In retrospect, I realized the red flags started from day one, and those things I didn’t see as red flags. I just thought they were quirky, silly, like he would get an afghan out of his cupboard. And like kind of match it to what clothing I was wearing. And then playfully cover me with it. Well, my alarm bells went off. But I certainly didn’t think this is a predator trying to weasel his way into my personal space or see them as warning signs of an abusive therapist.

The First Red Flags: Coerced Shoulder & Foot Rubs

Amy: I thought, this is just a silly, older gentleman therapist trying to put me at ease in an awkward therapy situation. He would bring me tea, and I didn’t see any harm in that. We both would drink tea during the sessions. So they were little things like that. And I brushed them off.

But when he offered to rub my feet or shoulders for a Christmas present, I panicked, he’d never touched me in a session. He sat across from me in his chair, and the sad reality is that I didn’t think I could say no. I had voices screaming in my head, like, pick one, pick one, this is awkward, this is brutally awkward.

So I said, shoulders. He came over and sat next to me in the chair and started to rub my shoulders. And I panicked and said, “feet, feet,” just to get him away. And the touch felt creepy. Sadly, I say sadly, because now I wish I could have just stood up and left. But I kind of slumped down in my chair and put my feet on the ottoman, and allowed him to rub my feet.

Anne: Because we reject victim blaming here at betrayal trauma recovery, would you feel comfortable saying coerced rather than allowed?

Amy: Yeah, I didn’t think no was a choice.

Anne: Right, so that’s coercion, right?

Amy: Do it quickly, and get it over with, or put it off. And then still do it.

Anne: Right, and it’s coercion.

Amy: It is coercion.

Anne: This isn’t you allowing him to do this. This is you are coerced to do this because you feel like you have no other option. However, these were definitely warning signs of an abusive therapist.

The Pastor’s Wife Didn’t See The Warning Signs Of An Abusive Therapist

Amy: Right. It was the most awkward, uncomfortable thing I could ever imagine. And on top of that, I felt like it was my job to make the room feel more comfortable for the discomfort he caused me. So, as we continue to talk in therapy, I’m like, look him in the eyes, ignore him rubbing your feet, ignore it. You’re making this worse, as if this is a problem I brought on. It’s just so unfair.

I ran this red flag by my mentor. Again, she was an elder at our church, and she was the pastor’s wife. I wasn’t seeing it as a sinister red flag, but I was seeing it as a very weird red flag. And when I told her, she said, “He’s so sweet.”

Anne: He was married at the time?

Amy: Yes, he’s married. He was 65 years old.

Anne: Okay, so he’s 65. He’s physically coercing clients and also emotionally and physically cheating on his wife. Another example of warning signs of an abusive therapist.

Amy: Yes.

Anne: And she’s saying he’s so sweet. This probably isn’t the first time she’s heard this then.

Amy: After this whole nightmare ended. I learned another young lady, younger than me. Who she was also mentoring was sitting on his lap in sessions. So she was almost like a pawn in this whole scam.

Anne: The pastor’s wife?

https://youtu.be/jUZiLsuSFNU

Therapist’s Grooming Others To Downplay Inappropriate Behavior

Amy: Yes, I feel like because she suggested him to me. She knew this young woman, who committed suicide under his care 20 years prior, was sitting on his lap during sessions.

Anne: What?

Amy: Yeah, it devastated me. I thought, and you sent me to him. And I don’t think she was in on it with him per se. I think she was unhealthy.

Anne: Right, she didn’t understand coercion. She didn’t view these behaviors as warning signs of an abusive therapist.

Amy: Yeah, and believed the people going to him were so mentally ill. He was doing everything in his power to help them, and so maybe he had to try more unconventional means.

Anne: There’s that. And the addiction industry in general, or therapists who work with addicts in general, believe addicts. So if an addict is sitting in an addiction therapist’s office. And the addict says, “Well, if my wife would do this, or if she would do this, things would be better.”

Like if she were more kind to me or if she respected me more. And so it’s this racket where the addict husband and the addict therapist end up abusing the wife more and more over time.

Amy:Yeah, and these predators, don’t start abusing victims until they have everyone around them adequately groomed. They have all the pieces lined up. He even had the confidence, even though it backfired on him. But he had the confidence to go after me, knowing I was good friends with the pastor’s wife. That’s how much he thought he’d get away with it.

Anne: Absolutely.

Isolation & Emotional Manipulation Are Signs Of An Abusive Therapist

Amy: I keep going, I think, yeah, he’s a little kooky and I let it go. We did a very odd spiritual type therapy, which just added to the confusion because I was a new Christian. There were many effects of spiritual abuse from him. was looking for Christian help for infidelity. Then there was another huge red flag of an abusive therapist.

I shared with him during one of my sessions that I imagined myself dancing with Jesus. Like a father-daughter dance at a wedding. That was not something I ever had, and how it was kind of a sweet thought. So the next time I show up for therapy, he says, “I thought we could dance.”

And I just felt my face go beet red, and I just wanted to escape through a trap door. Again, leaving wasn’t an option. I figured it out quickly. Because you’re making this more uncomfortable by sitting here being uncomfortable. Again, the burden falls on the victim.

Anne: Absolutely, think about an actual caring, empathetic person. Not even a therapist. They’re going to see that look flash across your face. They’re going to be like, “Oh, do you want to, how do you feel about it?” An empathetic person would have some type of awareness.

Amy: Oh yeah.

Anne: When your face goes red or when you look confused, abusers just plow right through that like, she didn’t say anything so I can move forward.

Amy: I think I covered my face. I was that uncomfortable. In my head I’m thinking, you mentioned dancing, he’s trying to help you, it’s a therapeutic thing. He’s 65. And since standing up and walking away wasn’t an option. Number one, I thought that was rude.

Resisting Abuse Through “Getting It Over With”: Signs Of An Abusive Therapist

Amy: And number two, I was connected to him at this time. He made sure I was emotionally attached. He had isolated me more by this time. I really thought he was the source of me feeling better, getting better. So I made myself do it. It was brutal, and when it was over, I thought, this never has to happen again.

Anne: I want to point out the resistance here. So as a victim, you are resisting through “getting it over with.” Victims think, why didn’t I stop it? And I want to point out that getting it done quickly, because you don’t think you have a choice, is a form of resisting abuse.

So you are resisting abuse every step of the way here. Your face is turning red. You’re putting your face in your hands. You’re trying to be safe. So as you’re resisting, he has multiple times where he can make a different choice and not abuse you. But he just keeps manipulating you and pushing forward. Yet more warning signs of an abusive therapist.

Amy: I appreciate you saying that, and feel like many of your listeners will understand that. I think some people judge harshly, and they think it’s really easy. You just stand up and leave, or you slap them across the face and you leave. They don’t understand the layers upon layers of manipulation that have already formed a web around you.

Continual Manipulation & Being Afraid Or Feeling Too Guilty To Leave

Amy: That’s when they make bigger moves, when they know you won’t leave. When they know you’re too afraid to leave or feel too guilty to leave, whatever it is. And I ran that by my close friend, and again, she thought it was sweet. And then I worked up the courage to tell her that he touched an inappropriate body part while we were dancing. Something snapped in her, and she said, “I trust him implicitly.”

And I knew in that moment I was on my own, so I didn’t share anything else with her. I thought, I will fix this relationship with the therapist. It’s just gone off the rails a little bit. Maybe it was my fault. It always feels like our fault. If I wasn’t needy and didn’t like the idea of a father figure, then I wouldn’t have caused these things to happen.

And what’s really sad is that in therapy, you’re so vulnerable. I gave him the information he could use against me.

Anne: Exactly.

Amy: And when I’m providing the information and then he uses it against me, I feel like I’m the one who brought it up. But all I’m doing is going to therapy. It makes it extra confusing. Well, you said you imagine, well no. I didn’t say I want to dance with you or I want a romantic relationship with you.

Anne: You were resisting abuse the entire time. Feeling in your gut that these are warning signs of an abusive therapist. So this is just an aside for comedic relief. And how is you cheating on your wife, helping me therapeutically?

Wanting To Escape But Manipulated

Amy: Oh, like, he’s going above and beyond to help me. And part of me believed it was a blessing that he was going above and beyond, but not at the time, I just wanted to escape.

Anne: I want to point out more resisting abuse. So you go for help from your friend and you realize instinctively that she’s not safe. Even if you don’t have the words for it. And so you pull back, which is a form of resistance. At every step, you’re trying to figure out how to get out of this.

Amy: Yes, it feels like you’re in a maze, and you hit this wall. And with telling her that, I hit that wall. That was one of my escape opportunities. I was counting on that one, too. I just was crushed when she said that. And then even more, it made me start thinking, no one’s gonna believe me. He’s a doctor, therapist, and church elder, and he’s 20 years my senior.

Who else am I gonna tell? And if I tell someone who maybe hasn’t ever been in therapy or hasn’t had my specific issues. They’re gonna jump on me right away. They’re gonna say, it’s your fault because you went back. So then you’re more isolated, and then it keeps going, and sadly the abuser becomes the comforter, because he’s the only one who understands the abuse he’s inflicting on you. It’s a very twisted situation.

Anne: And he is doing it on purpose, so that he can comfort you. He creates the problem so that he can be the solution, which is a very intense form of manipulation.

Therapist’s Romantic Advances: He Told Me He Loved Me

Amy: Yes, it’s like who else is there?

Anne: Mm hmm.

Amy: He’s the only one left. And they can turn on the charm when they need to. I’ll skip to the end. There’s only a few more months of therapy, and my panic is just rising. At this point, he’s turning up the heat, and it’s he loves me and …

Anne: Woah, woah. Turning up the heat, like he’s in love with you romantically?

Amy: Okay, this is the way he weaseled into it. He had established himself as a father figure, right? And I feel he was stuck in that role. So he started saying the key was that my heart loves you like a father. But the teenage part of me loves you in a romantic way. Well, I didn’t know what to do with that. I was like, what does that even mean? And then I thought, well, maybe that’s how all males feel.

Anne: Addiction therapists want people to think, oh, this is how men are, rather than this is wrong.

Amy: Right? So I’m thinking, well, he’s not gonna act on that teenage part. He’s just admitting that, and that’s vulnerable for him to say.

Anne: Also very creepy.

Amy: Super creepy. I mean, I was in panic mode for days and weeks. Like coming home I’m just twirling my hair and pacing around the house like I don’t know how to digest this information. And again, I didn’t think we were on a trajectory towards abuse.

I thought these were random incidences, not warning signs of an abusive therapist. So I thought, okay, he’s just fallen in love with this patient.

Grooming Was A Warning Sign Of An Abusive Therapist

Amy: Maybe that’s common for therapists, but he’s not going to act on it, he’s not going to do anything about it.

Anne: When you say on the trajectory for abuse, you didn’t think you were on the trajectory. But even just talking now, he had been abusing you from the beginning. It’s like, I don’t realize this is where it’s going, but then I also don’t realize this has been the intent from day one.

Amy: No, I have no idea that’s the intent. It never in my wildest dreams would I have thought he had an evil bone in his body.

Anne: And that he’d been abusing you the entire time. Because grooming is abuse. It is one of the warning signs of an abusive therapist.

Amy: Yeah, and I can remember when I got out saying, well, the first red flag was, and somebody who knew better saying, “No, no, no. The first red flag was on day one.” And then I started thinking, yeah, you’re right. I was groomed from the beginning. When you’re not a sociopath, you can’t think like a sociopath.

And you’re empathetic. You give people the benefit of the doubt, and after I’d get over each red flag, it would go into the background. So each incident was unrelated to the next, I saw no pattern. Even when it was getting inappropriate, like, you can’t love me, you’re married. And you’re my therapist. Again, I didn’t think it was sinister.

So I was like, Well, you’re gonna need to rein that in, and that’s not okay with me, and that’s not gonna work. But I didn’t see it as, this is all part of my master plan, to get you where I want you to be.

Intentional Abuse & Isolation From Husband, Are Warning Signs Of An Abusive Therapist

Anne: I think that’s the thing that is so difficult for victims, and therapists also don’t understand it. Is that it’s intentional when a wife goes in about her husband’s abuse. Therapists are like. Oh, he told me he didn’t mean that. He’s just bumbling around. Men know women don’t want to be abused.

That’s why they can act nice and awesome. If they thought women wanted to be abused, they would be like, okay, I’m going to cheat on my wife. So men know they’re intentional. It’s the therapist in general, that don’t think that. And then this therapist intends to abuse you directly.

Amy: Correct. He was the abuser. And he made sure to isolate me from my husband. So it was just him, him and me. And so it was fix it or leave. And for whatever reason I couldn’t leave. I know now the reasons. He had layered so many things, like he had told me so much about his personal life. Another warning sign of an abusive therapist. He seemed like a fragile individual. He said it would kill me if you ever left. I felt too guilty to leave. I thought it would kill him.

He had stopped charging me for sessions. The reason I wasn’t super disturbed by it was that it happened at the first of the year when my insurance wasn’t paying. And I brought it to the attention of the secretary. I could see him smiling in the background. I realized, oh, he’s intentionally not charging me. And I felt like a pit in my stomach. I felt that uneasiness of that’s not right.

Not Charging Is A Warning Sign Of An Abusive Therapist

Amy: And then I was like, I had told him how I was always told as a child. How expensive I was by my father. And how he’s trying to make me know that my worth isn’t based on any dollar amount. So again, he used something I shared with him in therapy. The other reason I didn’t fully panic about was that I knew my insurance would kick in a couple months. Literally in my head, I thought, It’s fine, Amy. He’s a doctor, I don’t think you’re going to bankrupt him.

Anne: With other victims of therapy abuse. I’ve heard that before. It is a warning sign if they stop charging them. Maybe they do that so that they can claim they weren’t a client.

Amy: Yeah, and also for me, it made me feel indebted. Money’s tight, and here he’s doing this for free. He cares so much more than the average person.

Anne: I want to put that out to my listeners. If that has ever happened where the therapist stopped charging. Then when you made a complaint, if they said, well, she wasn’t paying me. So she wasn’t a client. Because this is my theory, if they’re aware of this ever happening, they would let me know. Because I wonder if this is a preemptive way to avoid losing their license. If someone reports them.

The good news of having a community of victims is that we start to see patterns. So you can know like, Oh, if they stopped charging you, it could be a sign.

Amy: Right.

Anne: defend themselves or some other thing. In your case, so that you would feel indebted.

Amy: An ethical therapist won’t ever stop charging you.

Therapist’s Physical Advances A Warning Sign Of An Abusive Therapist

Amy: I can see there maybe some situation where you have to work something out, but it’s short term. I’m just saying it’s a red flag. I’m gonna just skip to the end.

He weasels his way over to my side of the office to sit next to me. Because that has to happen before he can do anything else. So I was emotional one particular session, and he came over and sat across from me on the ottoman. And dabbed my tears with a tissue, which was embarrassing. It felt fatherly, but also embarrassing. But I told myself, it’s sweet, he’s just trying to be sweet. He’s just trying to be compassionate.

Well, then he pretended he was uncomfortable sitting there. I didn’t want him to go back to his side of the office, because it was soothing to me. And this is after I’d been seeing him now for a year. So later, when he eventually assaults me, I feel like it’s my fault. And I don’t want to tell anybody because I’m so ashamed.

I’m ashamed that I’m in therapy. And I’m ashamed that I wanted a father figure. I’m ashamed that I’m an adult and was duped. I’m ashamed for the parts I thought were my idea. Of course, none of it was my idea. But master manipulators use you in your own abuse process that is something to look for if you think you have an abusive therapist. It makes it confusing and maddening when you peel it apart and see that you weren’t responsible at all.

Resistance & Confusion Are Signs Of An Abusive Therapist

Anne: And that you were resisting the entire time, trying to stop it the entire time.

Amy: Oh yes, and I was going in at the end in tears. Saying, “I can’t do this, this is hurting me. I need you to stop.”

And he wouldn’t stop. For a long time, I was like, is he hurting me? I think he is. But then I got to a place where I was like, he’s hurting me, why can’t I leave? And it was a brief period, but it was confusing at the time, and I couldn’t break the tie on my own. Feeling like you can’t go to a different therapist is a warning sign. I just couldn’t do it. He would guilt me and cry. He would do something, and I would cave.

So I again went to the only person I knew to go to my mentor, but this time I went to her spouse. I went to the pastor. And I told him, and he believed me.

Anne: Oh, that’s awesome.

Amy: Yeah, and he says, what do you need? And I said, I just need someone to sit with me. Because my therapy sessions, I’m embarrassed to say, had gone from one hour to two hours to three hours.

Anne: See, that is another warning sign of an abusive therapist. They go over time.

Amy: Huge, and you know I never asked for more time. He just surprised me with it one time. And I said, “Well, my time’s up.”

And he said, “Oh, I was able to move people around to get us an extra hour.”

Emotional Attachment & Voicemails Trying To Get Me Back

Amy: Then I had the same pit in my stomach, and again I rationalized it. Okay, well cool, I guess more time is good. That’s okay. That’s nice. Then I got used to it, and it went to three hours at the end. At that point, I was so attached and so alone. Outside of this little bubble that he had created, that I almost wanted that time.

Anyway, I tell my pastor everything. I say I need somebody to sit with me during my three hour session. Because I’ll cave, he’ll call, cry and guilt me. I don’t know. I just can’t break the tie. They did, they sat with me. But when that session was over, I knew at least one tie was broken and I wouldn’t go back. Now I remained attached, emotionally attached for months. The doctor called nine times and left nine voicemails, but I knew physically I wouldn’t return.

That’s the other very maddening thing. I know the answer, although it’s hard to put into words. Why do we remain attached to people that we know are hurting us? Ignoring the warning signs of an abusive therapist. First of all, it took me a long time to see that this was grooming, this wasn’t love. This was never love. This was a man who liked to trap women in psychological cages and then torment them for fun.

It’s so hard to wrap your mind around that level of evil that it’s just hard to get there and not rationalize the warning signs of an abusive therapist. That’s what I needed. I needed to know he’s intentionally hurting me. Because I felt too much compassion if it was unintentional, if he was just human, a man, just slipped or had just gotten in too deep.

Warning Signs Of An Abusive Therapist: Evil Intentions

Amy: I could be more patient with those things, and I needed to see the evil, and I got a chance to see it at the end.

Anne: I think all victims feel that way, so one thing I try to point out is that if you feel uncomfortable, his intentions don’t matter. Giving women permission to not worry about the intentions. To be like, you might be nice, but you, in your good guy form, makes me uncomfortable. Giving women permission to realize like, Oh, I don’t have to worry about his intentions. All I have to worry about is how I feel. This is one of the warning signs of an abusive therapist.

Amy: Yes, and unfortunately I didn’t have the self-worth to think that my opinion could trump other people’s. Especially a pastor’s. Other friends that went to this psychiatrist and loved him and thought he was amazing. So I always dismissed my own gut instincts. And one thing I always like to point out is that my gut instincts were spot on.

We aren’t naive, gullible, stupid and missing all these things. What we’re doing is allowing them to slip through. We’re minimizing them or rationalizing them. We don’t feel we can say no. Even though we see warning signs of an abusive therapist.

Anne: I think we’re resisting it the whole time, and we’re trying to figure it out. I don’t think we’re rationalizing anything. We are resisting in the only way we know how to at the time. You were resisting because you were trying to tell your friend. Also, you were resisting because your face turned red. You were resisting because you weren’t saying, “Oh, I’d love to do that.”

Amy: Right, I say rationalizing.

Surviving & Seeking The Support To Leave

Amy: That was part of the resisting. How can I make this situation more comfortable for myself and feel less scary and awkward? I tried to find other reasons for maybe why he did certain things. So the whole thing is just trying to survive it.

Anne: Yes.

Amy: The best way we can until we can figure it out or until we can get enough support to leave. After my pastor and his wife sat with me during that last session, I knew I wouldn’t go back. However, I was highly traumatized and still attached to him. I was ashamed and embarrassed, and I was confused as to how he manipulated me. And why I stayed so long, and allowed that. I didn’t have plans to tell anybody after that. That I hadn’t left after seeing the warning signs.

But in time, I got the courage to report him to the medical board because he was a psychiatrist. The medical board process took about nine months, and he was allowed to permanently surrender his license.

Anne: Hmm.

Amy: I guess doctors can renew their license in my state after a year. But in this case, it was a permanent surrender of license, so that was some bit of justice. But it just felt so unfair. He was already retirement age. And so he got to pretend to retire and move away.

Civil Malpractice Lawsuit Was Successful, But Not Really Justice

Amy: Meanwhile, my life was shattered. Because I hadn’t done anything about the warning signs earlier. My marriage, my family, we were all struggling. And so I decided to file a Civil Malpractice lawsuit. It took about three years, and in the end it was successful. It wasn’t about punishing the abuser so much, as it’s a financial transaction between us and his insurance company. It’s not the justice you get when you pursue criminal charges.

But it was something that allowed me to stand up for myself for the first time. Several attorneys told me that pursuing any kind of criminal charge would have been brutal for me and my family. And that the abuser would likely walk. So not to do it. And clearly, I couldn’t take on any more trauma. So yeah, I didn’t even want to go near that.

Anne: That makes sense. I’m so glad you got some sort of justice and also financial compensation, which is helpful to you, and holds him accountable. Even though it’s with his insurance, that he surrendered his license is good news.

Sometimes they surrender their license, but then they coach afterwards. And that’s scary. We’ve had a few instances of that in my state where a therapist went through this. And then they surrendered their license, then it was found later that they just continued to see clients. Under the guise of coaching rather than therapy. And that’s been very alarming.

Common Patterns of Abusive Therapists

Anne: Now, as you advocate for victims of abusive therapists. Can you talk about patterns that you see?

Amy: Well, when it first happened to me, I thought I had to be the only person on the planet to be taken advantage of as an adult. That I hadn’t recognized the warning signs. And of course, I know now that it is extremely common. And, yet we all feel alone, because we all think there was something wrong with us. That we were not smart enough to see that I’m dealing with an abusive therapist.

So that’s the first thing, is that it is common and that survivors are not alone. And the second is that it is challenging to peel apart the layers and see that you were actually manipulated and groomed by an abusive therapist. That although you are an adult, there wasn’t a gun to your head, there was a metaphorical one.

There was emotional manipulation, which is equally powerful, and I feel like society doesn’t respect that. They don’t respect emotional manipulation or threats, but they still hold women captive.

Anne: That makes total sense because listeners to this podcast have experienced it with their own husband. It’s not like he’s handcuffed her.

Amy: Yet we’re still trapped. But sadly, that kind of manipulation doesn’t get much respect at all. In fact, women are usually blamed. I want to make sure survivors and listeners understand they aren’t to blame. That adults are taken advantage of all the time. And they don’t have to feel guilty, ashamed or to blame. That was what I needed to hear in the beginning over and over.

You Are Not Alone & It’s Not Your Fault

Amy: You’re not alone, it’s not your fault. I was like drowning in shame and self-hatred, and I was confused. To become attached to someone who takes advantage of you leaves you utterly confused when it’s over. You feel hatred for the person that hurts you. And attachment to the person you thought was loving and caring. And there to support you, there to help you.

It’s really hard for victims when they come out, because there’s so much that has to be sorted through. And understood, and there are very few people educated on it to help us. So, it’s important to throw a lifeline to survivors in those early days, especially. So that they can start to untangle some of that confusion.

Anne: That is exactly the abuser’s intent to hook you emotionally and manipulate your emotions. By making it seem normal. Manipulate your thoughts, and make you feel like it is you, but it’s not you, right? So then you get confused and you feel shame, and that is their intent. This is why lying is emotionally abusive. They want you to feel shame, because it keeps people from understanding what’s going on.

Or for going for help or talking to people. And then even if you talk to people because you don’t know what’s going on, you don’t define it as abuse. And then they don’t know. So it is a big mess of he knows exactly what’s going on. But we don’t.

Amy: Yeah, shame is like a prison, and they know that, and that is their intention from the beginning. Shame keeps us quiet, like you said. We’re confused, even if we try to reach out. And can’t explain it in a way that shows what happened.

Watch Out For These Abusive Therapist Red Flags

Amy: It takes months, sometimes years, to fully wrap your head around it and then reiterate it in a way that makes sense. Because you can’t explain something you don’t understand yet yourself.

Anne: Exactly, because listeners of this podcast have been manipulated by their husbands. And most of the time, I would say they don’t understand. So they turn to therapists for help. Then the therapist ends up being an extension of their husband’s abuse quite a bit of the time.

The biggest red flag is that if you know it’s abuse, do not go to couple therapy. But just in general, red flags for abusive therapists: if they stop charging you and run over time.

Amy: There will be no physical touch, except maybe a handshake upon meeting. Sometimes, maybe, it’s ethical for a therapist to give you a short hug at the end of sessions. But even then, be careful with that. They won’t talk about other clients. The one you mentioned about the couples therapy, that is a big one. If they’re willing to see you both as couples and you individually, that is a red flag. They cannot be your therapist and your therapist as a couple.

Anne: A hundred percent, and almost every addiction recovery therapist does that. It’s so unethical. It’s so crazy. I’m like, no, it’s unethical. Number one, if it’s abuse, but even the therapist doesn’t know it’s abuse. So they’re doing all these unethical things, and the client doesn’t know. And apparently the therapist doesn’t know, or maybe they know, but they don’t care. I don’t know.

Finding The Right Therapist Can Be Difficult

Amy: When I found a good therapist years ago, I suggested couples counseling to him. Just bringing it up in general, he said, “You know, I can’t be your therapist and your marriage therapist.” At first, I wished he could because I trusted him. But then I realized that would be so hurtful, because you lose your therapist when they become your couple’s therapist. They do not have that objectivity anymore, and they do not have your best interests at heart.

Amy: If you have any feeling of unease, you have permission not to go back. It’s not rude or hurting their feelings. We’re allowed to do what’s best for us. And it’s really hard. At least it was hard for me to think that way, that I don’t even have to have a reason. You just make me feel uncomfortable. That’s something to listen to.

Anne: Yeah, and you also don’t need to tell them that. You can cancel the appointment and just never go back and not tell them why.

Amy: Yeah, you don’t owe them anything.

Anne: Yes, you owe them zero things.

Amy: It is a business transaction. It’s a service, and you’re paying them. If they are helping you, then you continue. Otherwise, you find someone else. Many red flags are things that I felt in my gut. So it’s hard to put them all into words.

Anne: But maybe that’s the most important one. I think many women in this space, our listeners, go and they think, I don’t know, it didn’t feel right. But next time I will be able to explain it better. Or we made some progress. And so next time I can like, we’re getting close.

Our Coaches Understand

Anne: And I want to say, if you’re constantly feeling like you’re getting close, but you still feel uncomfortable. That would be a red flag. Many women, when they come to BTR .ORG and schedule sessions with our coaches. Or they come to our group sessions. One of the main things they say is that they understood it right away. They totally got it. They helped me. I didn’t have to spend time and money trying to explain it to them.

Almost like you’re educating the therapist that your husband’s abusive. Our coaches, because they’re abuse coaches, are helping you see, okay, is this abuse and can help you immediately. And so always thinking that next time, maybe you’ll get over the discomfort is a red flag.

Amy: I was just going to say that if you feel the burden of proof is on you, then that’s not a good fit. The therapist should immediately recognize it as abuse. And should support you and help you understand it, not the other way around. If you have to over explain yourself, or defend yourself in any way, then they aren’t the therapist for you.

You feel heard, seen and valued if they’re ethical. They won’t make you feel questioned, attacked, or belittled. But since we’re used to taking abuse from people. We feel it’s our responsibility. And that if they miss the mark, we give them another chance or we see how it goes. When we don’t deserve to be hurt anymore. And we certainly don’t need to pay for it.

Anne: Exactly, exactly. Like you’re paying someone to help you. If you feel like you have to explain it to them or educate them.

Having Hope & Yet Realistic Expectations

Amy: Feeling lighter, validated, heard, seen and feel some semblance of hope. There’s hope, because somebody sees me and gets it. That’s how you should feel when you leave.

Anne: It’s hard with betrayal trauma and abuse. Because hope is tricky. We’re like there is hope you can live free from abuse. We have The Living Free Workshop. You can get to emotional and psychological safety. That may mean you need to start setting boundaries and separating yourself from the harm.

And that doesn’t feel hopeful, because there might not be hope for the marriage. Which is very hard to face. But if therapists give victims hope in the wrong thing, like my ex was emotionally and psychologically abusive. I remember one therapist who was like, he’s a good guy.

Of course, we can work this out. And so I felt hope, but it was hope in the wrong thing. It was hope that this abusive man could be non-abusive, and that wasn’t going to happen for me. So you want to feel hopeful. Also realistic about your situation. I think that’s another important thing that they’re not giving you false hope.

Amy: That’s very important, yes.

Anne: We might be like, he is abusive. We need to get to safety. It’s actually going to be hard, but you can do it. We believe in you. You’re strong and brave, and let’s start moving towards emotional and psychological safety. We don’t know what path you’re going to take. But this, oh, come to me and I’ll solve all your problems. It’ll be really quick. And this is like easy to solve.

Therapists & Re-Traumatization Challenges

Amy: Yes, I agree. I hope things can change eventually. That you don’t have to stay in the same pattern that you’ve been in for all these years. Like you said, it may be uncomfortable getting there, but it’s possible.

Yeah, I can see how therapists can re-traumatize so many people. Today we were referring to my therapist, who intentionally harms people. He does it for fun. I think there are therapists that do their best, but don’t have the skills. You have to be picky and keep going until you find somebody that you feel is a fit, and that hears you and gets it.

Anne: I’m always concerned, especially when it comes to abuse. Like you might talk to clergy or friends, and the automatic thing everyone says is they don’t understand it’s abuse. Also, even if they know it’s abuse, they don’t know that you shouldn’t go to couple therapy or therapy about it.

Immediately they’re like, well, therapy solves everything. And I want to caution people about that idea. Therapy can be really helpful for some things. Being an abuse victim, there’s not necessarily something wrong with you. In your case, you went to therapy to get help for something specific. That you wanted to change about yourself.

That is a good reason to go to therapy. But when someone hurts you, they’re messed up, not you. Therapy’s not the answer for everything, I guess. Sometimes you might need a friend or a hiking group. Thinking that there’s inherently something wrong with you in your situation. That therapy can solve it when there isn’t something wrong with you.

Finding Someone To Talk To That Understands Abuse

Anne: Sometimes I feel like people go in and the therapist finds something wrong with the person that wasn’t even there to begin with. Especially if they’re an abuse victim. Like, let’s talk about why you picked the, and you didn’t do anything to deserve to be treated that way. It’s almost a form of victim blaming in some ways.

Amy: I do, and that comes down to picking the right therapist, because I feel so much damage can be done. Especially if you’re not aware of the warning signs of an abusive therapist. But I feel so much healing can happen in just supporting you through it. Not saying you need to be here, but I want to walk alongside you through this journey. So if you look at it like that, I feel it can be beneficial.

The right therapist won’t make you feel at fault. You may get there at some point where you want to analyze things. But I think it’s good to have somebody walk alongside you who understands it. Friends and family hurt me over and over because they don’t get it. They don’t understand it.

They don’t relate to it. So almost everything they said to me was offensive. They would say things to me, like, “Well, why did you go back?” And just different questions along that line. And it was so painful, because I was already beating myself up with that same thing. I don’t know. And so, someone who understands it will be safer to talk to than someone who doesn’t understand.

Anne: Yeah, whether it be a therapist or not. Talking to someone who understands abuse Is the answer.

Challenges In Getting Help After Being Abused By A Therapist

Anne: It breaks my heart that women have to try therapist after therapist, after therapist, after therapist to find a safe one. I created Betrayal Trauma Recovery, because I didn’t want any woman to have to go through that heartbreaking process. Because you don’t always know right after the first session.

Also, many times when they find it’s abuse, therapists don’t have concrete ways of helping you. I created the Living Free Workshop, which I mentioned earlier, for that reason. But it’s hard. Because clergy, family and so many people don’t understand.

Amy: I’ll tell you, when you mentioned clergy, I just bristled. Because the other thing that we get a lot is that the abuser is just sinning. He’s just a sinner in need of help. I heard that about my own abuser, even though he was like a psychopath intentionally harming women over his entire career. So for me, I would shy away from going to a pastor or religious person. Because that’s often the approach they take, and that’s also damaging and re-traumatizing,

Anne: And if they’re going to try and get the “sinner” to repent. But then you’re still in proximity to that abuser, and he can just manipulate the whole situation.

Amy: Right, I just wouldn’t recommend it. They don’t have the training to properly help a woman in that situation. And like you said, it’s going to be more about well, can you forgive them? They’re just sinning and they’re broken. Well, no, they intentionally choose to hurt someone.

Needing To Reach Out For Help & Finding Safety

Amy: For me, I was not able to escape on my own. I tried and tried, and I didn’t want to tell anyone else because I was embarrassed. And I didn’t think they’d understand, but it just kept me there longer. I couldn’t break the emotional tie either. He would guilt me and manipulate me. So you need to reach out for help.

However, the first person I reached out to for help blamed me and took the abuser’s side. And it crushed me so much that I stayed longer. So you have to tell and continue to tell until you’re heard. It’s so devastating when we reach out for help, and we’re not believed, blown off, or blamed. We give up altogether.

Anne: I absolutely agree. We hear that a lot here at Betrayal Trauma Recovery. That women have been to therapist after therapist or talk to their clergy. You do the right thing. every time you reach out. Even if you get shut down, which is devastating.

Finally, when they come here, they’re like, “Oh, yes.” It’s because we get it immediately. But I want to praise them for continuing to try to get help. Then when they find us, I’m so glad, because I’m like, we’re here. We’re here for you.

Amy, thank you so much for being so brave and sharing your story. So that other victims can relate with it and hopefully learn something together. Thank you so much for sharing.

Amy: Yes, thank you for having me.